Latest on MJJC

Wembley DVD Critique /Quality and other prefered concerts over Wembley go here

IMWhizzle said:
Well, does the Estate know about this? Because those Italian insects own a master copy of Wembley! The future of a Bluray release is in their filthy hands! Makes me angry!

A thought that being a fan meant that we are here for each other and sharing our fandom.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure, but rumor has it they do. That I don't know if I believe...
 
respect77 said:
Well, if that is true then there is hope for a future HD/Blue-ray/cinema release of the concert. They may keep it to themselves now, but things can change over time. The problem I see is a legal problem: if they illegally have it they cannot just go to the Estate and offer it to them because of fear of a lawsuit. Maybe the Estate should issue a statement and guarantee immunity for anyone who hands over the stuff they have to them.
Click to expand...

Yeah, That is the sad part :(
Maybe over the years, who knows.
 
Re: Wembley DVD content - Discuss Michael, his Wembley concert and performances

nn1536.jpg


Left: DVD. Right: Ending of the Amature 23rd Tape.
 
Re: Wembley DVD content - Discuss Michael, his Wembley concert and performances

Themidwestcowboy said:
nn1536.jpg


Left: DVD. Right: Ending of the Amature 23rd Tape.
Click to expand...

Interesting, I am watching July 14th and the other Wembley amateurs and either they are the SAME EXACT camera angles at the SAME time as the DVD or this DVD was edited...Interesting...
 
The DVD is all from the one VHS. If anything, this would mean that perhaps the VHS was edited.
 
My only theory for MITM is that whoever recorded The concert on the 23rd must have bought two,or more, tickets with the same seats and must have recorded the two shows (16th & 23rd) and accidently (or intentionally) taped over the former concert for the latter.. Far fetched i know, but i can't seem to find another explanation.. :p
 
I have to ask where is this 1989 footage coming from? Is it possible of a full leak of the concert in the near future? hmmmm!
 
I did notice that Michael's hair does appear "flatter" for lack of a better word, during MITM than it does for the rest of the concert.
 
KOPV said:
I have to ask where is this 1989 footage coming from? Is it possible of a full leak of the concert in the near future? hmmmm!
Click to expand...

No, the promo tape that was made years ago was found online. It had 12 minutes of the show that was sent out to news stations to use for news pieces.

 
Themidwestcowboy said:
My only theory for MITM is that whoever recorded The concert on the 23rd must have bought two,or more, tickets with the same seats and must have recorded the two shows (16th & 23rd) and accidently (or intentionally) taped over the former concert for the latter.. Far fetched i know, but i can't seem to find another explanation.. :p
Click to expand...

it isn't far-fetched. One of the amateur tapes of HWT Munich was done like this, and this guy wasn't even an MJ fan and he went to both concerts! Almost everything was from the second concert, except for the intro of Billie Jean which is EXACTLY the same as the unedited and final TV version.

Better than Birchey's explanation "MJ went backstage to change", lol. He was wearing blue TWYMMF shirt for most of MITM, why change it?

@Hunterr - it's very hard to tell in the amateur version but I think the mic is black for Beat It and it looks silver for Billie Jean and WDAN.

You can't see the mic as well in MITM, it looks rather dark but then again the mic isn't as "obvious" so I think it's probably silver mic there too.
 
the quality of the video honestly was alightly better than i expected after hearing all the complaints. so for that I guess I can say thanks to those who made it sound worse than it is..

the quality of the show as a whole was increadably amazing.. I love examining Michael and how he evolved as a performer and dancer.

Triumph he started bringing out the beginning aspects of what we know as Michael. Certain stances, style, expression.

Victory he brought the Michael 'swag' into the mix along with the newer 'hip hop' derived moves like glydes, mimeing etc.

Bad is the full escence of the MJ as the public knew him, the MJ style he created came together to create an official MJ style/move set, of course I would have to mention some moves he brought in in Leg 2 that would later be well known through the later years

Dangerous, he had a couple more years of comfortability with the moves and styles he creates and it came so easy to him he was able to execute them with a new ease.

HIStory, he used his age and slightly less energy in his advantage, the tracks were slightly slower than previous live performances but closer to the recorded versions.. This allowed him to bring in a crisper approach to the movements with cleaner choegraphy. He also furthered his showcased his abilities as a popper that often got ignored in the past. (though he did do it)


Since this is a BAD thread I would say the second Leg of BAD is so very entertaining because of the fact it is basically it brings together where Michael came from and where he went as a performer/dancer.. You can see a bit more of the older MJ style and the newer MJ style.. Even his look was in the middle, not quite stereo typical MJ of the 80's and not quite the MJ we got to know of the 90's.. It was smack in the middle of all that we came to love.

On this DVD Michael showed why he is the greatest entertainer. His vocals were on point, his style and dancing was right on.. I would say this, there are sertain things I would show other people to show off what MJ can do. If I want to show popping I'd pull out Stranger In Moscow from HIStory, if I wanted to show energy and charisma id show Dangerous parts.. But if I wanted to show someone a summery of what Michael is as a performer I would have to show his this BAD DVD..
 
KOPV said:
the quality of the video honestly was alightly better than i expected after hearing all the complaints. so for that I guess I can say thanks to those who made it sound worse than it is..

the quality of the show as a whole was increadably amazing.. I love examining Michael and how he evolved as a performer and dancer.

Triumph he started bringing out the beginning aspects of what we know as Michael. Certain stances, style, expression.

Victory he brought the Michael 'swag' into the mix along with the newer 'hip hop' derived moves like glydes, mimeing etc.

Bad is the full escence of the MJ as the public knew him, the MJ style he created came together to create an official MJ style/move set, of course I would have to mention some moves he brought in in Leg 2 that would later be well known through the later years

Dangerous, he had a couple more years of comfortability with the moves and styles he creates and it came so easy to him he was able to execute them with a new ease.

HIStory, he used his age and slightly less energy in his advantage, the tracks were slightly slower than previous live performances but closer to the recorded versions.. This allowed him to bring in a crisper approach to the movements with cleaner choegraphy. He also furthered his showcased his abilities as a popper that often got ignored in the past. (though he did do it)


Since this is a BAD thread I would say the second Leg of BAD is so very entertaining because of the fact it is basically it brings together where Michael came from and where he went as a performer/dancer.. You can see a bit more of the older MJ style and the newer MJ style.. Even his look was in the middle, not quite stereo typical MJ of the 80's and not quite the MJ we got to know of the 90's.. It was smack in the middle of all that we came to love.

On this DVD Michael showed why he is the greatest entertainer. His vocals were on point, his style and dancing was right on.. I would say this, there are sertain things I would show other people to show off what MJ can do. If I want to show popping I'd pull out Stranger In Moscow from HIStory, if I wanted to show energy and charisma id show Dangerous parts.. But if I wanted to show someone a summery of what Michael is as a performer I would have to show his this BAD DVD..
Click to expand...
Great review!
 
Another thing I don't like is the way the sound was mixed. Not gonna blame it on Go Flying he did a great job recording this audio, but the people that edited it and "remastered" it. First of all the vocals just sound "raw" off the thing, little if any reverb! What happened to stuff like the echoing "whys" in Human Nature?!?! :( Also this little jingle before the song actually starts is also missing! :( I'm even more rage that it ISN'T in the CD version either!

So far there's a lot of missing gaps. It could have been shortened a bit for the VHS, but then again they added some unnecessary crowd shots after WBSS and also before IJCSLY.

Other stuff cut include the intro of Billie Jean (which is heard in the CD version) and the break in MITM.

I've heard worse live audio quality from "official DVDs" (like Vitas' concerts) but the mix does sound rather empty, not as much bass or echo overall.
 
Last edited:
Frankyboy5 said:
Another thing I don't like is the way the sound was mixed. Not gonna blame it on Go Flying he did a great job recording this audio, but the people that edited it and "remastered" it. First of all the vocals just sound "raw" off the thing, little if any reverb! What happened to stuff like the echoing "whys" in Human Nature?!?! :( Also this little jingle before the song actually starts is also missing! :( I'm even more rage that it ISN'T in the CD version either!

So far there's a lot of missing gaps. It could have been shortened a bit for the VHS, but then again they added some unnecessary crowd shots after WBSS and also before IJCSLY.

Other stuff cut include the intro of Billie Jean (which is heard in the CD version) and the break in MITM.

I've heard worse live audio quality from "official DVDs" (like Vitas' concerts) but the mix does sound rather empty, not as much bass or echo overall.
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree with you more.

I just finished creating a new stereo version from the ac3 file on the DVD.

The instruments sounds more alive and his vocals are spot on.

I am waiting for response of any moderator if I can upload it.
 
The overall quality of this DVD release is horrible! They should have add a warning sticker on the cover. The concert was shiot by multiple professional grade cameras that were available back in the 80's. It terms of quality these camcorders are Super VHS VTR's, which have emage quality of at least 480 lines of resolution, matching near DVD standards. For some strange reason the DVD we got was NOT made from the master recordings!!! It contains the final editing dome using the master tapes, but it appears that Sony could only get the a VHS copy, not the master VTR, which is S-VHS (VHS have higher chroma noise and only 250 lines of resolution).

The DVD was mastered from a VHS and was undergone some basic video enhancements such as:

1. Noise removal (results in softer picture)
2. Sharpness tweaks (to compensate for denoise)
3. White balance
4. Adaptive contrast enhancement (advanced per-area auto contrast tweak)

I guess Sony did the best they could to restore the video image. The only thing that bothers me is that they did not do a re Pan&scan to convert the video to 9:16 widescreen format to match today's screens. It it a very simple process. You need to go over each frame and crop it into 9:16 res making sure you'll always focusing on the main action (not cutting MJ's head off)

I'm currently doing the exact same thing. I'm converting the video into 9:16 format. I'm also editing TWYMMF seamlessly into the concert between Bad and MITM as originally intended (I was there both on the 15th and 16th concerts, i was only 16 then...)
 
TheMan1998 said:
The only thing that bothers me is that they did not do a re Pan&scan to convert the video to 9:16 widescreen format to match today's screens. It it a very simple process. You need to go over each frame and crop it into 9:16 res making sure you'll always focusing on the main action (not cutting MJ's head off)

I'm currently doing the exact same thing. I'm converting the video into 9:16 format.
Click to expand...

If it's not a problem, would you mind posting a short sample of the video or at least some screens done after this process? :) I'm curious what will be the final result :)
 
TheMan1998 said:
I guess Sony did the best they could to restore the video image. The only thing that bothers me is that they did not do a re Pan&scan to convert the video to 9:16 widescreen format to match today's screens. It it a very simple process. You need to go over each frame and crop it into 9:16 res making sure you'll always focusing on the main action (not cutting MJ's head off)

I'm currently doing the exact same thing. I'm converting the video into 9:16 format. I'm also editing TWYMMF seamlessly into the concert between Bad and MITM as originally intended (I was there both on the 15th and 16th concerts, i was only 16 then...)
Click to expand...

everyone stated they do not want the image to be reframed to ws and should be released the way it was shot 4:3. cause you can't avoid cutting importand things on top and bottom. you can go frame to frame adjusting, but you still especialy in Michaels case lose importand information. if you notice Michael in full body always fills the entire screen. and cropping 120 lines, isn't sparse.

And thats not needed. every TV has zoom option. yes you cant avoid cropping the head and feets that way, but if the side bars botter you that much, it will be ok.
 
Last edited:
Do you believe video quality?

I mean do you believe that Michael keep himself as VHS tape quality? Ok lets find true;

This footage is from The One DVD, and Michael was the Executive Producer of that DVD.

527666_10151099593912800_2135154015_n.jpg


I don't know which performance is this. But looks like filmed super high quality. I think whole tour filmed like this. You can check "Brace Yourself" video. And also I noticed that, BAD, Dirty Diana videos on that DVD are super quality too. More better than any released official DVDs. And also Dangerous Tour performances are super quality too.

Do you really think Michael archived his performances as VHS?

Sorry, I don't.


So why did they release like this? Next year they'll find better source?
 
Last edited:
And for me Beat It sounds really bad. I don't know but until Beat It sounds amazing, but when this song startes guitars, drums are so bad.
 
DJ_OXyGeNe_8 said:
I mean do you believe that Michael keep himself as VHS tape quality? Ok lets find true;

This footage is from The One DVD, and Michael was the Executive Producer of that DVD.

527666_10151099593912800_2135154015_n.jpg


I don't know which performance is this. But looks like filmed super high quality. I think whole tour filmed like this. You can check "Brace Yourself" video. And also I noticed that, BAD, Dirty Diana videos on that DVD are super quality too. More better than any released official DVDs. And also Dangerous Tour performances are super quality too.

Do you really think Michael archived his performances as VHS?

Sorry, I don't.


So why did they release like this? Next year they'll find better source?
Click to expand...

The more I watch it. The more I realise how bad this quality is. You can see noise on close ups on smooth criminal. As they stated people wanted wembley all they can find of wembley is the tape and also the audio is what they wanted to use. I'm really thrown off of the quality of TWYMMF. Wich looks like complete garbage quality. By the way I do miss your videos.
 
WiseGuy said:
The more I watch it. The more I realise how bad this quality is. You can see noise on close ups on smooth criminal. As they stated people wanted wembley all they can find of wembley is the tape and also the audio is what they wanted to use. I'm really thrown off of the quality of TWYMMF. Wich looks like complete garbage quality. By the way I do miss your videos.
Click to expand...

From the very begining, while APOM video was posted on Amazon UK the close-ups looked terrible... Most people were saying that it's only a web rip, it's compressed and the accuall DVD quality will be better. But it's not. Which doesn't mean that the Estate did bad job. Regarding that the source was a VHS, the quality is at least watchable but now, after reading and considering what DJOxygene wrote, one question comes to my mind... Is The Estate totally honest with us?
 
Check these guys, I'll give for BAD video too. First ones looks Yokohama. You can see every details, backround is pur black, super lights.

df9dr.png

df9du.png

df9f3.png

df9f8.png


quality looks like HD.
 
They said they had Yokohoma in HQ but did not consider releasing it because it was the first leg.

The colorist Warren also says that 2 out of 5 Wembley show was filmed. That means every show was NOT filmed.

Estate never denied that there were better versions such as Umatics and/or film, they said they couldn't find them.

So this discussion of whether or not some concerts are shot in HQ/ film etc is unnecessary. We know that they did. It's simply that Estate doesn't know where they are now. It was decades ago, there wasn't much record keeping, there was a kit of staff firing/ new staff hiring, neverland was twice raided, Michael's bills weren't paid some years and so on and so on.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top