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US Presidential Election ... [All recent threads merged here]

Bob George

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Popular Vote
Obama 53% - 69.5 million
McCain 46% - 60 million

Electoral College
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Re: US Presidential Election

Presidential candidates and their crazy church folk

Barack Obama has been a member of the Trinity United Church of Christ since 1988. The long-time pastor of this church, Jeremiah Wright, retired last month. Wright was the inspiration behind the title of Obama's book "Audacity of Hope". Wright has said some very controversial things recently about Obama's opponent for the Democratic nomination, Hillary Clinton. He said she doesn't deserve to be president because she's never been called a "n*****". He has also been an advocate of the Black Value System. Something that has been viewed by some as being black supremacist and separatist. The Trinity United Church of Christ awarded Louis Farrakahn a lifetime achievement award. Farrakahn infamous for his racist, homophobic and antisemitic comments. In 2007, Farrakahn endorsed Obama. Obama has denounced Farrkahn's endorsement and admitted that he doesn't see eye-to-eye with Wright of some issues.

Recently, news has come out about John McCain's spiritual advisor John Hagee. Hagee has also made some controversial statements that have been homophobic and anti-Islam. More to come on Hagee and if McCain will denounce his endorsement.

What do you make of these connections to religious nuts? And will Obama's connection to Wright and Farrakahn or McCain's connection with Hagee affect their public support at all?
 
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McCain's Pastor, Rod Parsley is a vicious homosexual hating, Muslim hating person. McCain calls him his spiritual adviser. This pastors church also lost a child abuse case a few years ago. Should Fox News and other media hold McCain to the same scrutiny that they are holding Obama to?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tViqufbk7I8

Pastor Rod Parsley is John McCain's spiritual advisor

Church found liable for Child Abuse:

http://www.pamshouseblend.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=3368


States all muslims are evil and a holy war should be waged against them:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article3548250.ece

" The leader of a 12,000-member megachurch, Mr Parsley has written several books detailing his fundamentalist views, including the 2005 Silent No More. In this contentious work, Mr Parsley castigates homosexuals, abortionists, the entertainment industry and civil libertarians before turning his attention to the perceived threat to the United States from Muslims.

In a chapter titled "Islam: The Deception of Allah," Mr Parsley speaks of Allah as a “demon spirit” and urges "war between Islam and Christian civilisation". There is no difference between violent Islamist extremists and moderate Muslims, he argues.

“I cannot tell you how important it is that we understand the true nature of Islam, that we see it for what it really is,” he writes. “In fact, I will tell you this: I do not believe our country can truly fulfill its divine purpose until we understand our historical conflict with Islam.

“I know that this statement sounds extreme, but I do not shrink from its implications. The fact is that America was founded, in part, with the intention of seeing this false religion destroyed, and I believe September 11, 2001, was a generational call to arms that we can no longer ignore.”

"The fact is that America was founded, in part, with the intention of seeing this false religion destroyed, and I believe September 11, 2001, was a generational call to arms that we can no longer ignore." Similarly, he says "It was to defeat Islam, among other dreams, that Christopher Columbus sailed to the New World in 1492…Columbus dreamed of defeating the armies of Islam with the armies of Europe made mighty by the wealth of the New World. It was this dream that, in part, began America." And, Mother Jones bureau chief David Corn says of Parsley "in 2007, the grassroots organization he founded, the Center for Moral Clarity, called for prosecuting people who commit adultery. In January, he compared Planned Parenthood to Nazis. In the past Parsley's church has been accused of engaging in pro-Republican partisan activities in violation of its tax-exempt status."
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Anti-Gay

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/individuals/rod_parsley/index.html

Patriot Pastors Report - Parsley against gays, muslims, immigrants, etc..

http://media.pfaw.org/PDF/RW/PatriotPastorsReport.pdf
 
Re: US Presidential Election

MJJC MOD 1 said:
Should Fox News and other media hold McCain to the same scrutiny that they are holding Obama to?
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Yes, but it wont do much. McCain is already the republican nominee. They are bringing up Obama's church more because he's not the presumptive democratic nominee yet and if it turns out he's suss, there's still a chance he could lose the nomination.
 
Re: US Presidential Election

But is that fair? Afterall, McCain is not the republican nominee until the convention when his delegates are counted. What this pastor said is much worse than Obama's former pastor. Should we have a president that's current pastor holds offending and inflammatory views about people of color, people of a different religion, and homosexuals?
 
Re: US Presidential Election

I think it's fair. Because as you said, do you guys want a president that holds offending and inflammatory views about white people and jews?

McCain is the presumptive nominee. The media can't really do anything to change that. They may however have an affect on the outcome of the remaining primaries for the democratic party. If Obama does share some of the same views as his pastor, but he's not telling the public that, I think it's in the best interest of the American people to know that before he ends up with the nomination. Then you've got two crazy church folk running for president. They can't do much to change the outcome of the republican nomination, but they can have an influence on the outcome of the democratic nomination, so they'll be digging up as much dirt as they can on Obama and Clinton. It just so happens they've got more dirt on Obama than Clinton. But expect them to go just as hard at Clinton if they dig up any dirt on her.
 
Re: US Presidential Election

Did HE (obama) or did he NOT speak the truth in his speech today????!!

OMG talk about CHANGE. Obama is creating CHANGE with that speech on its own. Bringing racial issues OUT in the open and not walking around them and "denouncing" a PERSON because it's politically correct and SAFE. Now everyone is gonna be talking about things that they wouldn't have been talking about otherwise, out in the open. BINGO!
 
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Re: US Presidential Election

got that right. HISTORICAL. i'm still in awe of how good that speech was. And it wasnt GOOD simply because of the way he SPOKE about it...it wasnt good because he's simply a good SPEAKER. It was good because of WHAT he spoke ABOUT...because what he spoke about was TRUE and HONEST. And it really was the best speech on race since MLK's I Have A Dream. And of course people are gonna dissect it and draw attention away from the REAL issues here, like the media loves to do...and thats because people dont wanna hear that truth. And if this is what does Obama in...if Obama being risky and unsafe and HONEST is what does Obama in...then America really isnt ready for real change then. That's how I feel about it.
 
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Great speech. I can't wait for his next..

I love speeches on race and human struggle.. They are inspiring and moving.. Bringing THE TRUTH of what's going on in our OWN land
 
Re: US Presidential Election

J5master said:
what he spoke about was TRUE and HONEST. And it really was the best speech on race since MLK's I Have A Dream. And of course people are gonna dissect it and draw attention away from the REAL issues here, like the media loves to do...and thats because people dont wanna hear that truth. And if this is what does Obama in...if Obama being risky and unsafe and HONEST is what does Obama in...then America really isnt ready for real change then. That's how I feel about it.
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this speech was in part directed at the best political team in the media, informing them of their choice to face up to such a dark and secret swamp of an issue. and to me, the message clearly resonates throughout the world as we look at the divides and injustices happening everywhere.

with this message, Barack has shown that you can't run from your problems but have to face them and address them. this doesn't just go for his campaign and the Rev. Wright media exaggeration but also for the real issues that no one dares to talk about. he's shown this before in his writings which i've quoted in the old thread with regards to injustices throughout the world and this is why i'm rooting for him.
 
Re: US Presidential Election

BUMP guys! This was important speech! A REALLY important speech for not just Obama.

Hmmph. I guess the silence is good. Means he nailed it lol
 
Re: US Presidential Election

what happened to the rest of our thread?
 
Re: US Presidential Election

it got erased like the rest of this section of the board.
 
Re: US Presidential Election

J5master said:
got that right. HISTORICAL. i'm still in awe of how good that speech was. And it wasnt GOOD simply because of the way he SPOKE about it...it wasnt good because he's simply a good SPEAKER. It was good because of WHAT he spoke ABOUT...because what he spoke about was TRUE and HONEST. And it really was the best speech on race since MLK's I Have A Dream. And of course people are gonna dissect it and draw attention away from the REAL issues here, like the media loves to do...and thats because people dont wanna hear that truth. And if this is what does Obama in...if Obama being risky and unsafe and HONEST is what does Obama in...then America really isnt ready for real change then. That's how I feel about it.
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His speech moved me incredibly and what you said about it being good because it was true and honest is right on. Just a couple of hours ago I showed it to a classmate and used almost those exact words you used to describe it. Sometimes when someone is a good speaker they can make you 'think' they are sincere but when you finally hear someone who IS sincere and is speaking honestly you KNOW it and you understand what was missing before.
 
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Re: US Presidential Election

eternitys_child said:
His speech moved me incredibly and what you said about it being good because it was true and honest is right on. Just a couple of hours ago I showed it to a classmate and used almost those exact words you used to describe it. Sometimes when someone is a good speaker they can make you 'think' they are sincere but when you finally hear someone who IS sincere and is speaking honestly you KNOW it and you understand what was missing before.
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Its a shame that those BIASED people on FUX news (they have NOT changed since the MJ trial lol)...cant see that. Man did they MISS the point of the entire speech lol
 
Re: US Presidential Election

And he knew it too. The way it was set up with the flags behind him and everything. He knew this was going to be his make or break moment.
 
Re: US Presidential Election

and done it by rising above the level of the kitchen sink.
 
Re: US Presidential Election

No. He did it by having very good speech writers and campaign managers who saw an opportunity to win over the people and wrote the speech that would do so.
 
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Re: US Presidential Election

arXter said:
it's a shame you're resort to cynicism in a belittling a speech that every human being should commend

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/03/speechwriter_of_one.php



18 Mar 2008 12:03 pm​


This wasn't a speech by committee... Obama wrote the speech himself, working on it for two days and nights.... and showed it to only a few of his top advisers.​
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Thank you for that. I for one felt certain it was his own.
 
Re: US Presidential Election

yes eternitys_child, it's actually similar to the tone of his first book and has some elements from his 2004 speech at the Democratic Convention.

in other news...


Another Senior Staff Departure In Hillary Land

Jessica O'Connell, the national director of operations, responsible for personnel management, staff deployment and headquarters operations, has decided to step down. She joins a raft of Patti Solis Doyle loyalists, ranging from wonderkind Adam Parkhomenko to deputy manager Mike Henry, who have departed in recent weeks.

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/03/another_senior_staff_departure.php​
 
Re: US Presidential Election

I'm not belittling the speech. I think it was a good speech. He could've written by himself over two days and night. But I just doubt it, despite what someone wrote in a newspaper. But regardless, it was a good speech and I think Obama's won it for himself (not just the nomination, but the general election). I'm still going to support Hillary, and I still think she has some chance at the nomination if it's decided at the convention. But I'm no so sure this convention will be a brokered one because Obama's gained so much support that he could get 2025 delegates, beating Hillary 60/40 even 70/30 in some states. He's really pulled through and recruited the support of so many people just with that one speech and if you look throughout US history, people who can do that (win so many people over with just one speech) usually win the presidency.
 
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Re: US Presidential Election

Bob George said:
I'm not belittling the speech.
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yes you are. if you've heard/read it, you'll see just how personal it was for him. to say he didn't write it is to diminish its authenticity.

I think it was a good speech. He could've written by himself over two days and night. But I just doubt it, despite what someone wrote in a newspaper.
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not just one newspaper (which happens to be a conservative one) but every news source is standing with that obvious fact.

it's why it resonated so much, because of its authenticity.
 
Re: US Presidential Election

Obama's Lincoln moment

Never before has a candidate for national office spoken so frankly about race in America.
March 19, 2008

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-rutten19mar19,0,5754610.column

One hundred and fifty years ago this June, a lanky Illinois lawyer turned politician gave a speech that changed the way Americans talked about the great racial issues of their day.

The lawyer was Abraham Lincoln, and the speech was the famous "House Divided" address with which he accepted the Republican Party's nomination as a candidate for the U.S. Senate. Lincoln lost to Stephen Douglas, but the address changed the national conversation on slavery and, two years later, Lincoln was on his way from Springfield to the White House.

America's political story is studded with such addresses -- historical signposts that divide that which went before from all that followed on an issue of crucial national importance. Franklin Roosevelt's "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself" speech fundamentally changed Americans' expectations of their government in times of social and economic crisis. John F. Kennedy's address on Catholicism and politics to the Greater Houston Ministerial Assn. in 1960 forever altered the way we think about religion and public office.

Sen. Barack Obama, another lanky lawyer from Illinois, planted one of those rhetorical markers in the political landscape Tuesday, when he delivered his "More Perfect Union" speech in Philadelphia, near Independence Hall. The address was meant to dampen the firestorm of criticism that has attached itself to the senator's campaign since video clips of race-baiting remarks by his Chicago church's former pastor began circulating last week.

But instead of offering a simple exercise in damage control, Obama chose to place his discussion of the Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright's incendiary comments in a wider consideration of race in America -- and the results were, like those Kennedy achieved in Houston, historic.

Just as every seasoned political hand in 1960 knew that, sooner or later, Kennedy would have to tackle the question of his Catholicism head-on, it's been clear for some time that Obama would have to speak explicitly to the question of race in this campaign. Still, polished orator that he may be, no one could have predicted an address of quite this depth and scope.

"That was the most sophisticated speech on race and politics I've ever heard," said CNN's Bill Schneider, the only network pundit who actually has taught American political history at elite universities.

It was all the more remarkable because, while Kennedy presided over what may have been the greatest speech-writing team in electoral history, Obama -- like Lincoln -- wrote his address himself, completing the final draft Monday night.

Obama did what he had to do, unequivocally repudiating Wright's extreme rhetoric. But what was truly radical about his analysis was his implicit demand that black and white Americans accept the imperfection of each other's views on race. Embedded in such acceptance is the seed of that "more perfect union" toward which this country -- unquestionably great but itself imperfect -- must strive.

It was a concept that Obama subtly invoked near the beginning of the speech by pointing to the fact that although the Constitution "was stained by the original sin of slavery," the "answer to the slavery question was already embedded within our Constitution -- a Constitution that had at its very core the ideal of equal citizenship under the law; a Constitution that promised its people liberty and justice, and a union that could be and should be perfected over time."

Theologically, original sin is the source of man's fallen nature and the root of his imperfection. Obama went on to build on that concept, invoking the authority of his own mixed heritage -- son of a black immigrant father and white mother, raised by a loving white grandmother -- and refusing to reject either Wright, a man of good works as well as extreme rhetoric, or his loving grandmother, who was prone to racial stereotypes. Obama demanded that black anger make an allowance for white anxiety and that white resentment make a place for black grievance.

No candidate for national office has ever spoken so candidly or realistically about race as it is lived as a fact of life in America. As he put it Tuesday, "The profound mistake of Rev. Wright's sermons is not that he spoke about racism in our society. It's that he spoke as if our society was static; as if no progress has been made; as if this country ... is still irrevocably bound to a tragic past."​
 
Re: US Presidential Election

I don't want to wish anything bad upon Obama, but history shows that men like him don't left long. Lincoln, Kennedy. He gets compared to them in his speech making. But will he have the same fate as these guys? I've heard so many people say Obama's way to popular to avoid a fate like Lincoln's or Kennedy's, and I unfortunately agree. I hope his security is tight when he becomes president. It will have to be.
 
Re: US Presidential Election

Bob George said:
I don't want to wish anything bad upon Obama, but history shows that men like him don't left long. Lincoln, Kennedy. He gets compared to them in his speech making. But will he have the same fate as these guys? I've heard so many people say Obama's way to popular to avoid a fate like Lincoln's or Kennedy's, and I unfortunately agree. I hope his security is tight when he becomes president. It will have to be.
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Good post. We will have to see. Let's hope he makes it.
 
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