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Thriller 40th Anniversary - Songs Discussion

AlwaysThere said:
Hot take! I think Victory is completely forgettable with the exception of “Torture” and “Be Not Always.” I feel like ignoring Michael on a reissue would be a recipe for failure.
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I wouldn't want a song like Buffalo Bill to be wasted on a Jacksons reissue but I can see what you mean lol. Tbf though Torture would be a good song as is without MJ's verse, his part is pretty much just the cherry on top. We Can Change the World is a good song and doesn't have Michael. Wait is also good and MJ only shows up towards the end. The album barely has MJ on it and Imo the album would be just fine without him, it's like he was put on the album as an afterthought lol.
 
ChanceToDance said:
I wouldn't want a song like Buffalo Bill to be wasted on a Jacksons reissue but I can see what you mean lol. Tbf though Torture would be a good song as is without MJ's verse, his part is pretty much just the cherry on top. We Can Change the World is a good song and doesn't have Michael. Wait is also good and MJ only shows up towards the end. The album barely has MJ on it and Imo the album would be just fine without him, it's like he was put on the album as an afterthought lol.
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I admit I’m very biased because I’ve always thought the brothers were far inferior to MJ, but the other songs all feel like standard ‘80s synth pop that any artist could do better. “Wait,” for example, is okay, but I’d much rather hear somebody like George Michael sing it. But whatever the case, MJ is a vital part of The Jacksons and I feel like doing anything without him just emphasizes how the other brothers lack the it factor that he had.
 
AlwaysThere said:
Hot take! I think Victory is completely forgettable with the exception of “Torture” and “Be Not Always.” I feel like ignoring Michael on a reissue would be a recipe for failure.
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Victory isn't forgettable, it's just kinda bad lol

2300 Jackson Street, now that's forgettable.

But really, Victory is mediocre simply. Unless you're a Jermaine Stan, you're not gonna dig it
 
ChanceToDance said:
I wouldn't want a song like Buffalo Bill to be wasted on a Jacksons reissue
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Hey....we dk about Buffalo bill... it could be another what a lovely way to go type of thing & that song could've definitely went with a jacksons album...being that we aren't dumb...we know those vocals are pre otw!
 
wonderouzmj said:
Hey....we dk about Buffalo bill... it could be another what a lovely way to go type of thing & that song could've definitely went with a jacksons album...being that we aren't dumb...we know those vocals are pre otw!
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I kind of doubt it, MJ spoke greatly of the song and even decided to save it for his own album, I bet it's a great song.
 
Agonum said:
Y’all are sleeping on We Can Change the World. The bass is sick!

And Victory as an album isn’t bad, unless you go in hoping for every track to be a hit.
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It's really not so bad, it's just, this is the best They could do after Thriller? More than that, after Triumph?

I blame Jermaine.
 
filmandmusic said:
The victory album is great. The brothers got one chance each to show their songwriting talent and they nailed, they reserved their best ideas for that album
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Victory album was weak at best. MJ not participating much tells us how he felt about it. He put a statue in the Torture video lol. No reissue is ever needed. The only thing I enjoyed about Victory was attending a concert and seeing MJ live!
 
ChanceToDance said:
If the Jackson brothers actually did Victory 40 and didn't add any new tracks sung by Michael I wouldn't be bothered, Imo the best songs of that album are songs that Michael doesn't sing or barely sings at all.
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I think Torture is the best song on the album. But Wait and One More Chance are better than Be Not Always and State of Shock. The later is a completely forgettable song, thanks to Mick Jagger.
 
I think Victory is a mixed bag. Torture, Wait and One More Chance are great, and Be Not Always is also pretty good. But the remaining four songs are forgettable.

Had we got Freddie Mercury’s version of State of Shock, and maybe songs like Buffalo Bill or Chicago 1945 on the album, it will probably be Jacksons best album.
 
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Nite Line said:
Had we got Freddie Mercury’s version of State of Shock, and maybe songs like Buffalo Bill or Chicago 1945 on the album, it will probably be Jacksons best album.
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Although its completely understandable why MJ didn't care too much about participating in another Jacksons album after 'Thriller', in retrospect it would've been a better move if he'd contributed more.

I'm sure there's many of us, myself included, who think Victory is the first miss of MJ's 'adult career', beginning with the Destiny album.

There are moments of almost-greatness: Wait, State of Shock, The Hurt. But so much of it feels like MJ was phoning it in for the album, saving his best material for his next solo album. He chose Be Not Always because he knew it would never contend for a place on his next solo effort.

But if you think about it, a lot of the stuff he did with Porcaro and Barnes in '83/'84 wasn't chosen for the Bad album because it was outdated by the time production moved to Quincy in '86. A song like Chicago 1945 sounds like it would fit onto Victory without many necessary changes, but by the time Quincy heard it 3/4 years after the fact, it probably sounded to him like a relic.

I know it's easy to say in retrospect, but if song like Chicago were included on Victory and not saved for Bad then it would be another classic album.
 
Nite Line said:
I think Victory is a mixed bag. Torture, Wait and One More Chance are great, and Be Not Always is also pretty good. But the remaining four songs are forgettable.

Had we got Freddie Mercury’s version of State of Shock, and maybe songs like Buffalo Bill or Chicago 1945 on the album, it will probably be Jacksons best album.
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The Hurt is a good song, and it has a lot of MJ dna, because he co-wrote it. You can hear shades of other great songs in it, Hollywood Tonight chief among them. It's easy to not hear it because Randy did the vocals but just imagine.

As it is, State of Shock is still okay.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
The Hurt is a good song, and it has a lot of MJ dna, because he co-wrote it. You can hear shades of other great songs in it, Hollywood Tonight chief among them. It's easy to not hear it because Randy did the vocals but just imagine.

As it is, State of Shock is still okay.
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I will give The Hurt another listen and see if it grows on me.
 
If Michael had performed lead vocals on The Hurt it would be up there with the best Jacksons material imo. I've got a feeling there's probably a demo out there that MJ and Porcaro initially wrote, perhaps before Randy was involved. But that's pure speculation.
 
robotchicken14 said:
If Michael had performed lead vocals on The Hurt it would be up there with the best Jacksons material imo. I've got a feeling there's probably a demo out there that MJ and Porcaro initially wrote, perhaps before Randy was involved. But that's pure speculation.
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Tbh, it seems like MJ and Porcaro just made tone of songs together. Toto was always involved, from Thriller on, but right after, we get:

Chicago 1945
Dream Away
The Hurt



And then later For All Time. Just kidding, that one's actually a Thriller Outtake.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
Tbh, it seems like MJ and Porcaro just made tone of songs together. Toto was always involved, from Thriller on, but right after, we get:

Chicago 1945
Dream Away
The Hurt



And then later For All Time. Just kidding, that one's actually a Thriller Outtake.
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There are the songs Change, Get You Back and Just For Now tbf, Mj and Steve Porcaro didn't stop working together after Dangerous.
 
ChanceToDance said:
There are the songs Change, Get You Back and Just For Now tbf, Mj and Steve Porcaro didn't stop working together after Dangerous.
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That's even better. I was focusing on Thriller outtakes mostly but I knew there were more by name. MJ had his regular collaboraters.
 
Is change the demo that leaked from the seminar? If it is I wouldn't describe it as an MJ track at all seeing as Steve never presented it to him.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
They're prospective MJ songs.
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They could be considered MJ tracks if MJ had heard them and decided to work on them, he didn't and they're not. Sorry I disagree totally on this lol.

Saying "someone wrote this for MJ" isn't the same thing as considering a track an MJ track just because it was written with him in mind by someone else.
 
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SmoothGangsta said:
They would could be considered MJ tracks if MJ had heard them and decided to work on them, he didn't and they're not. Sorry I disagree totally on this lol.

Saying "someone wrote this for MJ" isn't the same thing as considering a track an MJ track just because it was written with him in mind by someone else.
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Yeah, saying “it was written for him so it’s an MJ collaboration” is a slippery slope.
 
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