Things That You Believe Weren't Necessary/Didn't Add Value to MJ's Performances

[ScreenOrigami]

:hysterical: I would still scream though.

Absolutely! It’s really convincing when you see it live. If you get the chance, go and see Alice before he retires. His shows are one of a kind. He’s currently planning to tour again, but he’s been doing it for 50 years now, so he might choose to stop at some point.
https://alicecooper.com/tour/

[video=youtube;dKSJN3WWR3E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKSJN3WWR3E[/video]

Thanks for this! Everyone seems to get away with whatever they choose to do, unless their name is Michael Jackson. :no:

How was this video received by the public?

 

[ozemouze]

Re: Things that did not add value to his performance

How was this video received by the public?

I'm quite sure it was also surrounded by controversy at the time.

Nas is a serial offender though :

Oh and don't forget:

 

[ScreenOrigami]

My impression is that by the time MJ released Earth Song, his public image was so tainted by all that tabloid trash (particularly in the USA/UK) that many people weren’t able to see his work for what it was. One could ask the question if MJ should have acknowledged that situation more and tune it down a notch for a while, but honestly I don’t believe that would have changed much.

 

[threatened2020]

Re: Things that did not add value to his performance

About that jumping around chaos in Beat It and Black Or White, it is just to get the audience riled up! I mean, maybe it does not fit in a concert like Johannesburg 1997, where he was just so out of it.

MJ was out of it in the History tour? Are you sure?

 

[Nite Line]

Re: Things that did not add value to his performance

Michael loved his fans, and that was one way of showing it and giving back some love. And giving someone a chance to go on stage with him is something huge for the fan. Nothing wrong with it. Besides, not all of them acted crazy. Also, why do you only mention HIStory tour when he did it on the Dangerous and Bad tours as well?

Because it looked ridiculous on History Tour because of the lip syncing. You have some crazy fan grabbing on to him like a maniac and his vocals aren't affected in any shape or form. How ridiculous!

 

[Anna]

Sorry guys but, while Jarvis Cocker was completely out of line and shameful in his actions, I agree with the majority of people on here. It was beyond cringe and dare I say, false?

I love Michael Jackson but, this is an example of how naive he could be. With what happened in 1993 and the public scrutiny and focus, how he thought this was a good idea, in front of a drug fueled audience of Britpop musicians, who looked at the likes of his generation as past it, was beyond anything I'll ever understand.

Indeed.

My impression is that by the time MJ released Earth Song, his public image was so tainted by all that tabloid trash (particularly in the USA/UK) that many people weren’t able to see his work for what it was. One could ask the question if MJ should have acknowledged that situation more and tune it down a notch for a while, but honestly I don’t believe that would have changed much.

Tabloids have nothing to do with it. Michael's own fans can recognise the saviour bit was cringe and inappropriate, because that's what it was.

 

[ScreenOrigami]

Tabloids have nothing to do with it. Michael's own fans can recognise the saviour bit was cringe and inappropriate, because that's what it was.

Well, that’s your opinion. Others feel differently about it.

 

[ozemouze]

Re: Things that did not add value to his performance

Michael's own fans can recognise the saviour bit was cringe and inappropriate, because that's what it was.

You could at least add that it's your opinion as it sounds quite categorical, even a bit rude like this. Others have the right to feel differently than you and you shouldn't present your opinion as fact. There are many different opinion here, some of them are the complete opposite of mine, but I didn't feel I should leave this thread until now.

And just for the record: I haven't even articulated my thoughts about the "performance in question" yet, only mentioned the role of the cultural background that should be taken into context as well IMO.

 

[Anna]

Re: Things that did not add value to his performance

You could at least add that it's your opinion as it sounds quite categorical, even a bit rude like this. Others have the right to feel differently than you and you shouldn't present your opinion as fact. There are many different opinion here, some of them are the complete opposite of mine, but I didn't feel I should leave this thread until now.

And just for the record: I haven't even articulated my thoughts about the "performance in question" yet, only mentioned the role of the cultural background that should be taken into context as well IMO.

Obviously it's my opinion, it's coming from me and it's an opinion. It's not like I wrote a scientific statement, like the distance to the moon.

 

[Rocketeer]

Re: Things that did not add value to his performance

MJ was out of it in the History tour? Are you sure?

Unfortunately yes. But it was mainly in the second leg concerts from August to October (The May-July shows are great!). Johannesburg, in particular, the one on October 12, 1997, is the worst one I have watched energy and spirit wise, though his voice was in better condition than it was in Munich back in July (he just sounded weaker generally). I'm not exactly labeling the show to be bad or unwatchable, because it isn't, I can still watch and enjoy it! Although, compared to other HIStory concerts like the one in Basel, Switzerland on July 25, 1997 and the one from the first leg in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia on October 29, 1996, it is simply not the best HIStory Tour concert to have been leaked. It is understandable though as that show was the penultimate one of the tour, or the one before the last concert of the tour in Durban, hence why his exhaustion is transparent, and I don't blame the man. That's why I prefer to watch concerts from the first leg in 1996, from Prague to Hawaii! Overall more energetic and captivating! But even then, I would not mind watching another second leg concert (Bremen, hello!).

 

[DuranDuran]

This thread is kinda odd. Mike wasn't really doing anything that other performers had also done.

Michael Jackson and his back up dancers jumping up and down and doing random meaningless moves for nearly two and a half minutes.

You've never been to a church service when people get the spirit or Holy Ghost?
[video=youtube;Rn5MBzZJM00]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rn5MBzZJM00[/video]
[video=youtube;-Jgv6BS5jP4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Jgv6BS5jP4[/video]

Falling down on his knees (during ‘Man In The Mirror’), and one of the back up singers having to approach him and help him to stand up again.

James Brown had long been doing that wearing a cape.
[video=youtube;vruy2GRUsV8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vruy2GRUsV8[/video]

Being dressed in that astronaut suit and being prepared for supposedly flying off the stage on a jetpack towards the end of 'Man In The Mirror' (Dangerous Tour).

Go check out late 1970s Earth Wind & Fire concerts with magic tricks and Verdine White playing bass while levitating in the air. Funkadelic had the Mothership. Sun Ra was doing space imagery back in the 1950s. Wearing costumes has also long been done. Like Screamin' Jay Hawkins, Genesis (Peter Gabriel sung wearing a fox head and a dress, plus other masks) during their prog days, Alice Cooper, Arthur Brown, GWAR, etc.

The excessive length of "Workin' Day And Night" and "Shake Your Body" in every tour he performed those songs

Many acts have extended songs performing in concert. Especially in funk, jazz, and gospel. In some cases with different arrangements rather than doing an exact copy of the records.

Asking the audience if he can come down there during ‘She's Out Of My Life', when in fact he almost never came down there, but instead a female fan had to step onto the stage.

Janet gets a guy out of the audience, has him strapped down and then gropes him.
[video=youtube;fHKKR8hhdCc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHKKR8hhdCc[/video]
[video=youtube;Y8JGTS56nVU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8JGTS56nVU[/video]

 

[Toby34]

It was a theatrical performance. MJ did not see himself as a savior, just like Alice Cooper wasn’t really beheaded in his horror show.

What you see in the Brits performance is an enactment of an apocalyptic scenario. It’s theater. MJ on stage is not the same as Mike off stage.

Thank you! This is exactly how I feel. Good entertainment is drama and theater and Michael understood that adding drama has a massive effect on the audience.

Michael at one point talks about how James Brown's live at the Appollo has the audience(paraphrased) "feeding out of his hands".

When Michael does the cries and pause in Shes Out of My Life and I'll Be There, the audience is going crazy. He knows exactly what he's doing.

Michael is a great entertainer because he did much more than just go on stage and perform songs and leave. He added fun as well as dramatic touches to each show.

 

[ScreenOrigami]

Re: performance

Go check out late 1970s Earth Wind & Fire concerts with magic tricks and Verdine White playing bass while levitating in the air. Funkadelic had the Mothership.

And Tommy Lee plays his drums on a f***king roller coaster!



You guys definitely need to go out and see more big shows.

 

[DuranDuran]

bible

Madonna

Tupac

Johnny Rotten

Kanye West

Howard Stern

Isaac Hayes (he's doing Moses, but still from the Bible)

 

[Nite Line]

Re: Things that did not add value to his performance

What I have learned in this thread is that some fans will always defend their fav and won't criticise them at all. Michael's performance at Brits 96 was embarrassing. The whole "Messiah" thing reeked of arrogance, and just because other artists did similar performances, it doesn't make it right.

It's okay to criticise your fav sometimes. It won't make you any less of a fan.

 

[Mikky Dee]

Re: Things that did not add value to his performance

You can't compare someone painting a picture of literal Jesus to what Michael did. The fact they're even trying to use that as a justification is hilarious. Michael made himself out to be a saviour and it was pure cringe. It's the same uncomfortable megalomania vibe as the HIStory promo and having paintings done of himself as a king, etc.

MJ was a saviour to many; also king of his chosen profession and his personal domain. I think he was an empath who saw himself as a universal father; one who could help and do some good in the world - a shining beacon in a sea of grey. He said many times that he enjoyed escapism and wanted to provide that, for others, through his music and entertainment. I think the paintings which showed himself in masterful roles were escapism, romanticism, whimsical fancy, a projection of where he wanted to be and what he wanted to do in life.....perhaps even a compensation for something missing from his self-esteem, since childhood. Many reasons are possible....Michael's paintings, his HIStory statues, his general largesse for at least three decades, certainly kept people interested and engendered constant discussion/debate....even to this day, as we can see here.

 

[Michaels Lover]

Re: Things that did not add value to his performance

What I have learned in this thread is that some fans will always defend their fav and won't criticise them at all. Michael's performance at Brits 96 was embarrassing. The whole "Messiah" thing reeked of arrogance, and just because other artists did similar performances, it doesn't make it right.

It's okay to criticise your fav sometimes. It won't make you any less of a fan.

I don't see what not having a problem with this performance has to do with not being able to criticizing him. That's just silly :laughing: People like something you don't, get over it. That doesn't mean they can't criticize him

 

[Mikky Dee]

Re: Things that did not add value to his performance

What I have learned in this thread is that some fans will always defend their fav and won't criticise them at all. Michael's performance at Brits 96 was embarrassing. The whole "Messiah" thing reeked of arrogance, and just because other artists did similar performances, it doesn't make it right.

It's okay to criticise your fav sometimes. It won't make you any less of a fan.

It is my opinion that:

Michael Jackson didn't have an arrogant bone in his body. The Brit Awards Earth Song performance was about LOVE - love for the planet, for humanity and for each other. That was always his message and that was always what he tried to portray in his performances. Just because some people are cynical and hard-hearted and don't understand what he was trying to do, it doesn't make him wrong, embarrassing, ridiculous, arrogant, messianic, or anything else like that. That is just what others project on to him.....they read their own meanings into what he did and then label him as something he was not.

 

[Mikky Dee]

The more I think about HIStory tour , the more I hate it, don't hate me for it.

~Throws rotten tomatoes~

This. It’s a theatrical performance, and that needs to be taken into account when talking about it. To claim MJ was likening himself to Jesus or something like that is to completely misrepresent him as a person.

EXACTLY!

We should also not forget that the performance served as a medium for Michael’s message in his short speech afterwards:

“Did you know that an area of tropical rainforest the size of six football fields is burned every minute, and destroyed? Did you know that 3 million children die every minute, and did you also know that every hour 300 children die from hunger? But I believe in us as a people, I know we can make a difference. I love you all, and I believe in all of you. I love you.”

Notice how he says “us as a people”? There’s nothing about him taking on a savior role or anything.

I completely agree with you.

 

[SmoothGangsta]

Re: Things that did not add value to his performance

Mj did a few things that were part of the concert that I don't really think added anything, the tank during earth song and the bug thing are some of them. I'm also agreed with others in the fact that MJ trying to make himself look like jesus was cringe af.

 

[wonderouzmj]

Re: Things that did not add value to his performance

I just wished he changed up his set list. Ill never understand why d.d wasn't on the dangerous tour/& why more than 3 out of 14 songs werent performed & still dont get why in the closet is performed on the history tour & only the band plays it during certain places.

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

Re: Things that did not add value to his performance

I said this once and I said it again. in my opinion the history tour was awful. it was decent. but awful. Michael clearly wasn't up for it. I give him a shoutout for doing it because of us fans. other then that he should of cancel the tour for a few days etc.

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

Re: Things that did not add value to his performance

What I have learned in this thread is that some fans will always defend their fav and won't criticize them at all. Michael's performance at Brits 96 was embarrassing. The whole "Messiah" thing reeked of arrogance, and just because other artists did similar performances, it doesn't make it right.

It's okay to criticize your fav sometimes. It won't make you any less of a fan.

Thank You.:clapping: I agree with you. I love Michael but i'm gonna criticize somethings he did and do. Michael was a human being just like the rest of us. that's not being mean. you just giving your own opinion and two cent about it. Michael was naive half of the time let's just called it as he was.

 

[Dan]

Re: Things that did not add value to his performance

I never understood the Brad thing.

The band were playing live so why would Brad stop the track? What has it got to do with him?

Are you talking about I Just Can't Stop Loving You from the 1996 Royal Concert?

Brad was the musical director. He gave the rest of the band the cue to either carry on or stop and he either didn't tell them to end or told them to continue. If you notice, the lights go out on Marva Hicks when the song was supposed to stop, as they did on Siedah Garrett on the Dangerous Tour. Michael noticed that it was past the cue and addressed him to give the cue so they could go into She's Out of My Life.

 

[ScreenOrigami]

Michael Jackson didn't have an arrogant bone in his body.

This. It’s really easy to see when you look at him as a human being, not the stage character. I don’t get why people seemingly confuse these.

The Brit Awards Earth Song performance was about LOVE - love for the planet, for humanity and for each other. That was always his message and that was always what he tried to portray in his performances.

Yup. It’s the whole point of Earth Song.

Just because some people are cynical and hard-hearted and don't understand what he was trying to do,

Funny that you mention this, because I was thinking about this yesterday. In my opinion, the normal reaction, when someone doesn’t understand something, should usually be to step back, look at the whole thing from a distance, look for context, try to see the big picture, listen to what the artist actually says (there was a speech after the performance), and so on.

But what actually happened was outrage and bullying. It comes down to a sort of xenophobia, a fear of anything that’s different, that doesn’t fit in. And Michael was perceived as weak (wrong again!), so people didn’t hold back their outraged criticism, because they felt safe that he wouldn’t bite back.

it doesn't make him wrong, embarrassing, ridiculous, arrogant, messianic, or anything else like that. That is just what some others project on to him.....they read their own meanings into what he did and then label him as something he was not.

He addressed all of this beautifully in his Ghosts short film, right up to the scene with the mirror.

What I have learned in this thread is that some fans will always defend their fav and won't criticise them at all.

Interesting. I wasn’t even a fan until recently. I became a fan while studying MJ’s work and life, beginning from a very neutral position. And it all makes very much sense when you’re not standing knee-deep in the aftermath of decades of tabloid shit-storms, but look at all of it it in context.

 

[Dan]

Re: Things that did not add value to his performance

It is my opinion that:

Michael Jackson didn't have an arrogant bone in his body. The Brit Awards Earth Song performance was about LOVE - love for the planet, for humanity and for each other. That was always his message and that was always what he tried to portray in his performances. Just because some people are cynical and hard-hearted and don't understand what he was trying to do, it doesn't make him wrong, embarrassing, ridiculous, arrogant, messianic, or anything else like that. That is just what some others project on to him.....they read their own meanings into what he did and then label him as something he was not.

You may be right. No one here actually knew him personally and therefore, no one here actually knew Michael's true intentions. Nevertheless, it at least, came off as arrogant and messianic. It doesn't mean that's what he was trying to say but that's how it came off. Someone on his team should have said something, maybe not stopped him or anything but just mention it. Michael had a brand to hold and he had to represent himself well and that performance obviously didn't ruin him or anything but it didn't add anything either.

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

Re: Things that did not add value to his performance

Many reasons are possible....Michael's paintings, his HIStory statues, his general largesse for at least three decades, certainly kept people interested and engendered constant discussion/debate....even to this day, as we can see here.

You're right about this. somethings Michael did was to disputable. he knew exactly was he was doing half of the time.

I'm also agreed with others in the fact that MJ trying to make himself look like jesus was cringe af.

From watching the video I actually laugh because it was so mess up. :laughing:

 

[mj_frenzy]

MJ was a saviour to many; also king of his chosen profession and his personal domain. I think he was an empath who saw himself as a universal father; one who could help and do some good in the world - a shining beacon in a sea of grey. He said many times that he enjoyed escapism and wanted to provide that, for others, through his music and entertainment. I think the paintings which showed himself in masterful roles were escapism, romanticism, whimsical fancy, a projection of where he wanted to be and what he wanted to do in life.....perhaps even a compensation for something missing from his self-esteem, since childhood. Many reasons are possible....Michael's paintings, his HIStory statues, his general largesse for at least three decades, certainly kept people interested and engendered constant discussion/debate....even to this day, as we can see here.

It is my opinion that:

Michael Jackson didn't have an arrogant bone in his body. The Brit Awards Earth Song performance was about LOVE - love for the planet, for humanity and for each other. That was always his message and that was always what he tried to portray in his performances. Just because some people are cynical and hard-hearted and don't understand what he was trying to do, it doesn't make him wrong, embarrassing, ridiculous, arrogant, messianic, or anything else like that. That is just what some others project on to him.....they read their own meanings into what he did and then label him as something he was not.

Art should not be a free-for-all territory, especially when it comes to such religious matters.

What Michael Jackson actually did at that ‘Earth Song’ 1996 Brit Awards performance was to appropriate the messianic imagery of Jesus.

Look, for example, how these people/children around him want to touch him because this supposedly would cure them.

And his arrogance was not just obvious from that particular performance, but it can also be seen from the entire HIStory era.

His ‘HIStory’ song for example was another clear sign of his arrogance, where in essence he put himself in the same league as all those great historic pioneers of the past that the song refers to.

As for the paintings, these were not just arrogant but vain as well.

This thread is kinda odd. Mike wasn't really doing anything that other performers had also done.

You've never been to a church service when people get the spirit or Holy Ghost?
[video=youtube;Rn5MBzZJM00]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rn5MBzZJM00[/video]
[video=youtube;-Jgv6BS5jP4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Jgv6BS5jP4[/video]

James Brown had long been doing that wearing a cape.
[video=youtube;vruy2GRUsV8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vruy2GRUsV8[/video]

Go check out late 1970s Earth Wind & Fire concerts with magic tricks and Verdine White playing bass while levitating in the air. Funkadelic had the Mothership. Sun Ra was doing space imagery back in the 1950s. Wearing costumes has also long been done. Like Screamin' Jay Hawkins, Genesis (Peter Gabriel sung wearing a fox head and a dress, plus other masks) during their prog days, Alice Cooper, Arthur Brown, GWAR, etc.

Many acts have extended songs performing in concert. Especially in funk, jazz, and gospel. In some cases with different arrangements rather than doing an exact copy of the records.

Janet gets a guy out of the audience, has him strapped down and then gropes him.
[video=youtube;fHKKR8hhdCc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHKKR8hhdCc[/video]
[video=youtube;Y8JGTS56nVU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8JGTS56nVU[/video]

Other performers have already done some of these things or similar things, but this does not mean that these things added value to his performance when he did them when he was performing.

For instance, that Janet Jackson’s ‘Would You Mind’ live segment added no value to her performance, either (her lap dance looks very forced and fake).

Also, it is not just the excessive length of ‘Working Day And Night’ that added no value to his performance, but it is also all these irritating starts and stops that make it look even more unnecessary.

He should have performed a new, additional song in the place of these 4 unnecessary extra minutes of ‘Working Day And Night’.

The jumping up and down at the end of ‘Beat It’ even if it was inspired by the church service when people get the spirit or Holy Ghost, yet it looks very out of place at the end of the ‘Beat It’ performance.

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

Re: Things that did not add value to his performance

In my opinion and like others said before that bit of the earth song should been cut out. the performance was good until he did that. Michael wasn't no angel.

 

[NatureCriminal7896]

Re: Things that did not add value to his performance

When Michael does the cries and pause in Shes Out of My Life and I'll Be There, the audience is going crazy. He knows exactly what he's doing.

LOL! and it still gets to me people still thinks he was crying etc. :laughing: fun fact he did cried while recording she's out of my life because he was so lonely at the time. so the song suppose to be emotional but during his tours it was only a act.