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zinniabooklover said:
Iirc, she's the patron saint of cats but also gardeners, pilgrims (or travellers) and the mentally ill. I'm slightly lukewarm about her bc apparently she used to wear a hair shirt and I'm not into that whole Catholic thing of glorifying suffering (should perhaps point out that I am not Catholic; am, in fact, an unrepentant heathen, lol). Otoh, she was born in 626 CE so maybe I should give the girl a break!
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a hair shirt?
 
bluemoon7 said:
a hair shirt?
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oh, you've confused me now! Are you asking me what a hair shirt is? Bc I assumed you would know. I'll post a short piece about it but apologies if I've misunderstood and you know this already.

It's not limited to the Catholic faith, afaik, but it certainly figures large in the history of the Catholic church, especially nuns (and presumably monks, also). Self-mortification and all of that. I can't be doing with it. Someone isn't holy or blessed bc they have cancer. They just have cancer. I think the basic idea exists in certain Buddhist practices but I don't know too much about that, I'm more familiar with the Catholic story. It's a good example, imo, of the difference between the faith and the church. Or faith and organised religion.

Sorry! Up on my soapbox, there. Let me climb back down. And, bc this is online, let me be clear. When I talk about the 'glorification' of suffering, I simply mean that is how it comes across to me. It doesn't matter to me that we're not intended to view it in that way. I have never been able to view it any other way than an unhealthy approach to suffering. Other opinions, as always, are available.

"A hair shirt is a coarse garment intended to be worn next to the skin, keeping the wearer in a state of discomfort and constant awareness of the shirt's presence. Such garments were traditionally worn by some Christian religious orders, along with individuals who felt penitent about certain actions or their lifestyles. Their use is fairly limited in the modern era, but the term is often used metaphorically, which is why someone might refer to "wearing a hair shirt" when they perform some other act of self-imposed penitence."

What is a Hair Shirt?

A hair shirt is a coarse garment worn next to the skin. Traditionally worn by some Christian orders, a hair shirt is intended to...
www.historicalindex.org www.historicalindex.org
 
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zinniabooklover said:
Iirc, she's the patron saint of cats but also gardeners, pilgrims (or travellers) and the mentally ill. I'm slightly lukewarm about her bc apparently she used to wear a hair shirt and I'm not into that whole Catholic thing of glorifying suffering (should perhaps point out that I am not Catholic; am, in fact, an unrepentant heathen, lol). Otoh, she was born in 626 CE so maybe I should give the girl a break!
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Was she Jewish?
 
Agonum said:
Was she Jewish?
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I have no idea. You'd have to Google her. That's an interesting question. What makes you think she might be Jewish?

I'm not an expert on the saints. There are some that I love (St Francis de Sales) but mostly I've just picked up random bits of info from the days when I used to buy Catholic diaries with saints names listed on the relevant days. Although I don't think poor old Gertrude was in those diaries. She gets overlooked bc her day is the same day as St Patrick. He just takes over, lol.
 
Last spring, while taking some photographs, I found myself right next to this brave tiny robin. It was chirping straight into to my face like in high alert. Then I saw a nest up in the bushes. I stood still for a minute or two and the robin didn´t leave its spot :love:


2023-03-22-12-37-49-800.jpg
 
zinniabooklover said:
I have no idea. You'd have to Google her. That's an interesting question. What makes you think she might be Jewish?

I'm not an expert on the saints. There are some that I love (St Francis de Sales) but mostly I've just picked up random bits of info from the days when I used to buy Catholic diaries with saints names listed on the relevant days. Although I don't think poor old Gertrude was in those diaries. She gets overlooked bc her day is the same day as St Patrick. He just takes over, lol.
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The hairshirt, it stems from a Jewish custom, doesn’t it?
 
zinniabooklover said:
oh, you've confused me now! Are you asking me what a hair shirt is? Bc I assumed you would know. I'll post a short piece about it but apologies if I've misunderstood and you know this already.

It's not limited to the Catholic faith, afaik, but it certainly figures large in the history of the Catholic church, especially nuns (and presumably monks, also). Self-mortification and all of that. I can't be doing with it. Someone isn't holy or blessed bc they have cancer. They just have cancer. I think the basic idea exists in certain Buddhist practices but I don't know too much about that, I'm more familiar with the Catholic story. It's a good example, imo, of the difference between the faith and the church. Or faith and organised religion.
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Ohh, yes! :) We call it Büßerhemd (penitent shirt). Thank you for explaining, @zinniabooklover

I am completely with you concerning this whole self mortification. It´s very disturbing to me. Another "tool" the catholic church used to suppress people IMO.

zinniabooklover said:
Sorry! Up on my soapbox, there. Let me climb back down. And, bc this is online, let me be clear. When I talk about the 'glorification' of suffering, I simply mean that is how it comes across to me. It doesn't matter to me that we're not intended to view it in that way. I have never been able to view it any other way than an unhealthy approach to suffering. Other opinions, as always, are available.
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I think so, too.

No need to be sorry :) You are expressing your views/feelings here, and your criticism is very thoughtful and a good base for discussion.
 
Agonum said:
The hairshirt, it stems from a Jewish custom, doesn’t it?
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Yeah, I think it is in the Jewish scriptures but can't say for sure. There's so much of Christian practice and observance that is based on the Jewish tradition so it would make sense.
 
Actually, when I read HAIR SHIRT, this popped into my head immedialtely:

https://knityourdog.com/

Shed Happens: All That Dog Hair Can Be Something Beautiful!​

Baa Baa Black Chow, have you any wool???

Baa Baa Black Chow, have you any wool???

When spun and knitted, dog hair makes lovely things​




Muppets gif. Zoom in on Kermit the Frog looking down with his hand on his face. He shakes his head in frustration.
 
bluemoon7 said:
Actually, when I read HAIR SHIRT, this popped into my head immedialtely:

https://knityourdog.com/

Shed Happens: All That Dog Hair Can Be Something Beautiful!​

Baa Baa Black Chow, have you any wool???

Baa Baa Black Chow, have you any wool???

When spun and knitted, dog hair makes lovely things​

Click to expand...
That's the kind of hair shirt I could get behind. :ROFLMAO:

Brief digression - it crops up in Esther but, again, as sackcloth and ashes so I still think that's slightly different.

Pet hair. I found this! 😲

"I would love to see pet hair products become more mainstream. Dog yarn is much warmer than sheep’s wool and as easy to dye. Cat hair is silkier and more delicate, and develops a beautiful halo effect after it has been washed."

www.theguardian.com

Experience: I knit with pet hair

A customer asked me to make a replica out of her cat’s fur when it died. She took the knitted cat to bed and slept well for the first time since her loss
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
Agonum said:
I wonder if @hope can decipher it?
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Oh no! I can't decipher it 😅😅😅😅
The Novgorod Codex (also "Novgorod Psalter") is the oldest known book of Russia, discovered in 2000. It contains the full text of Psalms 75 and 76 and a part of Psalm 67, written in Old Slavonic.
At writing the most ancient Slavic alphabet Glagolitic was used. And it is very different from the Cyrillic alphabet

 
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