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The Jacksons appear on Piers Morgan - May 10th 2012

I agree about forgiveness but I think the thing that bothers me is that none of the Jackson’s have seemed to be very upset or outraged at Conrad Murray from day one. It’s not like we’ve seen an evolution of grief from them to the point of forgiveness. In many cases they have shown more understanding and compassion for Murray than they have for Michael. JMO.
 
We all are capable to says things out of place becuase of emotions or not fully thinking things through .. not just the Jackson's
I find myself saying things that after the fact. I regret and wish i didnt. We all do that and dont want it held against us.


We are not behind closed doors in their personal life. We cant judge they they didn't feel GREAT pain of grief enough to satisfy us. Or that they didnt show a spectical enough to show their outrage publically. That's suggesting they didnt love thier brother and suffer his loss. We've seen their tears when they have spoken at various times to know it is painful for them. When we are in public we don't usually wail or fall on the floor or ground crying in great pain like we may do at home or in private. We cant judge that they did grieve enough to satify us . Grieving is personal its not to entertain or satisfy us
. .. That's not fair.

Plus we've seen latoyas great outrage .. does her "public" display make her stance on all this more believable in our eyes ?


My view about Joe's discipline and how it effected Michael and his brothers.
As I understand and have heard from Michael's own words. He also softened on his stance about Joesph and said he was more understanding of what he was trying to do and that he also forgave him. We all know Michael was more hurt and effected because he was more sensitive than his siblings. It hurt his spirit and bothered him internally and he carried that pain for a long time . While the brothers may not have had the same experience or felt the same way. But They should at least recognize that is did effect Michael much more than it did them and acknowledge his hurt and pain. I believe Jermaine did mention at one time that Michael was younger and he was more frightened by it.

We also know Michael himself said he saw Joe's discipline different after the got older. (He goes into detail about this in his Oxford University speech) Yes it was harsh and abusive in my opinion. But If Michael and his brothers chose to forgive and are more understanding of why Joe did things the way he did. I don't want to judge them for that. I'm not happy over what they went through .I can also understand they don't want to publicly hurt or bash their father for his past mistakes. Yes sometimes I become upset and angry over the fact they don't acknowledge how hard it was for Michael. I also see Joe's actions were harsh and abusive at that time. But hey It's their life and their experience to come to terms with - not mine. I think like Michael said I should try to look for the good in people not focus on their faults and judge them to harshly. Its hard to do sometimes. but if I acknowledge I too have faults in my own life that need forgiving it helps.
 
qbee said:
We all are capable to says things out of place becuase of emotions or not fully thinking things through .. not just the Jackson's
I find myself saying things that after the fact. I regret and wish i didnt. We all do that and dont want it held against us.

We are not behind closed doors in their personal life. We cant judge they they didn't feel GREAT pain of grieve enough to satisfy us. Or that they didnt show a spectical enought to show their outrage publically. That's suggesting they didnt love thier brother and suffer his loss. We've seen their tears when they have spoken at various times to know it is painful for them. When we are in public we don't usually wail or fall on the floor or ground crying in great pain like we may do at home or in private. We cant judge that they did grieve enough to satify us . Grieving is personal its not to entertain or satisfy us
. .. That's not fair.

Plus we've seen latoyas great outrage .. does her "public" display make her stance on all this more believable in our eyes ?


My view about Joe's discipline and how it effected Michael and his brothers.
As I understand and have heard from Michael's own words. He also softened on his stance about Joesph and said he was more understanding of what he was trying to do and that he also forgave him. We all know Michael was more hurt and effected because he was more sensitive than his siblings. It hurt his spirit and bothered him internally and he carried that pain for a long time . While the brothers may not have had the same experience or felt the same way. But They should at least recognize that is did effect Michael much more than it did them and acknowledge his hurt and pain. I believe Jermaine did mention at one time that Michael was younger and he was more frightened by it.

We also know Michael himself said he saw Joe's discipline different after the got older. (He goes into detail about this in his Oxford University speech) Yes it was harsh and abusive in my opinion. But If Michael and his brothers chose to forgive and are more understanding of why Joe did things the way he did. I don't want to judge them for that. I'm not happy over what they went through .I can also understand they don't want to publicly hurt or bash their father for his past mistakes. Yes sometimes I become upset and angry over the fact they don't acknowledge how hard it was for Michael. I also see Joe's actions were harsh and abusive at that time. But hey It's their life and their experience to come to terms with - not mine. I think like Michael said I should try to look for the good in people not focus on their faults and judge them to harshly. Its hard to do sometimes. but if I acknowledge I too have faults in my own life that need forgiving it helps.
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I agree with every word you said in this and your previous post. Jesus and the Bible speak of forgiveness and therefore we should all try to forgive. Also I've never got fans who expect the family to cry in the public eye to show that they are grieving and if they don't personally see them grieving then it never happened. If they were to breakdown on national television I'm sure people would say they were doing it for attention. Of course they loved MJ, they are his brothers, what they may or may not have said and done in the past nothing will break that bond they have with their brother, which is more than the bond we as fans ever had, even though MJ's bond with us was so special. The same with Joe, MJ seemed to forgive Joe in his later life for the pain he inflicted on him; so if Michael can forgive him so can I.
 
marebear said:
Tito forgives Murray not Jermaine. Tito said he cannot forget but he forgives because of not holding on to the hate. It hurts him. They say there will always be a void in their heart with Michael gone. They said he was healthy and that they can't talk about things for legal reasons. They said Michael was judged too quickly and treated badly in his life. They said not irritated by Michael's success. The Jacksons were the foundation for him. Didn't like certain people around Michael but not worried about his work because he knew what to do.
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I can understand Tito saying he forgives. Notice they say Michael was healthy, now isn't there a court case on where grandma said he was not. I see they are going back to the original statement that he was healthy. They need to make up their minds.
 
Yeah they said he was healthy. I think they all know that that last time they saw Michael he seemed fine and healthy. Then a month later he passes away. I can tell that they just don't blame Murray they keep saying others are involved but are unsure. They feel it.

I didn't think the interview was bad. I don't know if they are telling the truth about Joe. I just don't think they want to say anything bad about him. I didn't like how they were being portrayed as not damaged. Who had the most pressure put on him? Not them. It was Michael that was given the most pressure. It was Michael that was the star in that family. Even Michael said i think that Joe was harder on him.

As for the forgiveness part. I have read and heard people to say to me you have to forgive people that hurt you not for them but for yourself. You don't let the hate consume you. You let them dictate your life if you hold on to the bad feelings. It doesn't mean you forget or want anything to do with that person. The problem is that it's not easy to do. Jermaine can't do it and the others didn't answer. For me I can't do it but I am not going to let my hate for Murray consume me. I don't forgive Murray at all.

The clip of Katherine hurts to see. The pain of losing Michael is still there and I don't think that will go away. I think about him everyday and I miss him too. I haven't always agreed with her choices but it's hard for a mother to see her child go before her.
 
It's a murder, damn it! How can he say that he forgive but he doesn't forget? You can forgive only if you forget. If you are not able for forget, you're not able to forgive eighter.
I remember the day when Murray has been sentenced to 4 years in jail. All the fans screaming that the justice was done. How would you felt if the murder would have been forgiven?
It's not about hating Murray or wanting revenge. It's about wanting JUSTICE. Michael Jackson deserves JUSTICE and that criminal will pay only 4 years in jail for taking MJ's life.
 
^ Completely disagree, you can forgive the person while continuing to not forget their actions, because at the end of the day nothing you can do is going to undo those actions. Forgiving has nothing to go with the justice side of things, holding on to the hate is only holding on to the pain for longer, no ones saying we should all go out and become best friends with CM, but you can definitely forgive without forgetting.
 
raz2911 said:
I agree with every word you said in this and your previous post. Jesus and the Bible speak of forgiveness and therefore we should all try to forgive. Also I've never got fans who expect the family to cry in the public eye to show that they are grieving and if they don't personally see them grieving then it never happened. If they were to breakdown on national television I'm sure people would say they were doing it for attention. Of course they loved MJ, they are his brothers, what they may or may not have said and done in the past nothing will break that bond they have with their brother, which is more than the bond we as fans ever had, even though MJ's bond with us was so special. The same with Joe, MJ seemed to forgive Joe in his later life for the pain he inflicted on him; so if Michael can forgive him so can I.
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I'm not talking about the family crying in public at all. I think we all know why there has been such a strong backlash against the J's. It's much deeper than not crying in public but I'll leave it at that.
 
Just wait when Murray got out, he would run his mouth nonstop bullshit about Michael to make a fortune. you see that fidds fool, Murray would be much worse. He didn't even care about his sentence to make that mockmentory, I am kind scared to even think about it. Yeah the Jackson had already forgave him. The judge was much more outraged than the Jackson's. I knew only AEG is unforgivable. that 100 million restitution is the justice.
 
liberiangirl_mj said:
It's a murder, damn it! How can he say that he forgive but he doesn't forget? You can forgive only if you forget. If you are not able for forget, you're not able to forgive eighter.
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That's the point. Looks like your definition of forgiveness differs from that of Tito. You cannot forgive if you don't forget. Tito can. For example, I went through this process once - forgiving the person who was responsible for my slight disability I admit, I hated him with passion for quite some time. No, he never admitted that he was responsible for the accident. No, I did not forget. But I forgave - not for him. For me. For my inner peace which only came when I refused to hate another person.
That said, it doesn't mean that your definition of forgiveness is invalid. However, I think that if you just try to imagine that this other definition exists, it might get easier to understand Tito.
 
Forgiving is a hard thing to do especially when the person thinks they did nothing wrong like Murray. It's hard to do I think too because you don't want to make it seem you are saying it's okay what they did when it was wrong. I know it's why I have a hard to forgiving people. Everybody is different because it seems Tito has and Jermaine cannot. I have read books where it has to with your feelings then the other person.
 
Victory22;3636733 said:
I agree about forgiveness but I think the thing that bothers me is that none of the Jackson’s have seemed to be very upset or outraged at Conrad Murray from day one. It’s not like we’ve seen an evolution of grief from them to the point of forgiveness. In many cases they have shown more understanding and compassion for Murray than they have for Michael. JMO.
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We've only seen them in public. We don't know how they've reacted and coped in private so none of us can really say we've watched go through all the stages

and Jermaine has been VERY vocal about his attitude towards Murray
 
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I liked the interview

When Piers asked the brothers about Michael's trials and tribulations, they all felt that Michael wasn't treated fairly and people are very quick to judge. Marlon said it's not people's job to judge one another. Growing up, I felt the same way. Michael, to me, was this brilliant, talented, kindhearted human being and I never understood the downright hate or jealousy people had for him. Folks are always so quick to believe anything negative said about him and he didn't deserve that

I got what Piers was saying about the tormented/dysfunctional. He wasn't necessarily calling Michael that, but the fact that over the years, the Jackson family have gotten the label of crazy, dysfunctional, abusive people who just happened to make great music. From what they were talking about and seeing them, he didn't get that impression from them

They said they couldn't say much about how they felt about Murray and everything surrounding Michael. Tito forgave Murray not for Murray's sake, but for himself. He couldn't live his life holding on to anger and hatred. I agree with that. It's an unhealthy way to live. All the hate, resentment, and ill feelings isn't gonna fill the void or heal the wound knowing his little brother isn't here anymore. He doesn't forget what happened, but he can't live with the anger

Jermaine, however, does NOT forgive

Also, I'm glad Jackie cleared up the news about the hologram. That story was all over the place :lol:
 
qbee said:
We all are capable to says things out of place becuase of emotions or not fully thinking things through .. not just the Jackson's
I find myself saying things that after the fact. I regret and wish i didnt. We all do that and dont want it held against us.


We are not behind closed doors in their personal life. We cant judge they they didn't feel GREAT pain of grief enough to satisfy us. Or that they didnt show a spectical enough to show their outrage publically. That's suggesting they didnt love thier brother and suffer his loss. We've seen their tears when they have spoken at various times to know it is painful for them. When we are in public we don't usually wail or fall on the floor or ground crying in great pain like we may do at home or in private. We cant judge that they did grieve enough to satify us . Grieving is personal its not to entertain or satisfy us
. .. That's not fair.

Plus we've seen latoyas great outrage .. does her "public" display make her stance on all this more believable in our eyes ?


My view about Joe's discipline and how it effected Michael and his brothers.
As I understand and have heard from Michael's own words. He also softened on his stance about Joesph and said he was more understanding of what he was trying to do and that he also forgave him. We all know Michael was more hurt and effected because he was more sensitive than his siblings. It hurt his spirit and bothered him internally and he carried that pain for a long time . While the brothers may not have had the same experience or felt the same way. But They should at least recognize that is did effect Michael much more than it did them and acknowledge his hurt and pain. I believe Jermaine did mention at one time that Michael was younger and he was more frightened by it.

We also know Michael himself said he saw Joe's discipline different after the got older. (He goes into detail about this in his Oxford University speech) Yes it was harsh and abusive in my opinion. But If Michael and his brothers chose to forgive and are more understanding of why Joe did things the way he did. I don't want to judge them for that. I'm not happy over what they went through .I can also understand they don't want to publicly hurt or bash their father for his past mistakes. Yes sometimes I become upset and angry over the fact they don't acknowledge how hard it was for Michael. I also see Joe's actions were harsh and abusive at that time. But hey It's their life and their experience to come to terms with - not mine. I think like Michael said I should try to look for the good in people not focus on their faults and judge them to harshly. Its hard to do sometimes. but if I acknowledge I too have faults in my own life that need forgiving it helps.
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So well said. In "general", children just love their parents. Because Joe wasn't just an abuser, he was a serial cheater, openly disrespecting their mother as well as them by allowing them to witness some of his inappropriate behavior with other women when they were on the road. Joe is a product of a whole lot of things that we as fans will never know, which seems to figure into why his children understand, forgive, and accept him, especially since some of them have assumed some of his negative behaviors and in forgiving and excusing him, they excuse themselves.
 
Michael said he forgave his father but it seems he didn´t want to see him.
It isn´t always easy to forgive and move on.
 
raz2911 said:
I can understand why Tito would say he has forgiven CM, he is very much right when he says it is better to forgive but not forget than to let it eat away at you, of course he misses his brother, I didn't take that as anything wrong on his part. We just had a speaker in college the other day who's son was murdered and he said pretty much exactly the same thing. Tito may not have attended court and we don't know the reasons why, it may have been too hard for him who knows, I don't think that comment is something we should pick away at him for.
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Yeah! I agree. Also Tito attended the TII premiere, but didn't watch the movie because it was still too painful for him. So to assume he's not affected is ridiculous. I imagine the same is true for the trial and he decided to stay way. And, assuming he didn't follow what was said in court, had he been in court and actually heard what was said, he maybe would not be saying he is forgiving Murray. We don't know. Whatever it is, not our place to judge. Generally speaking it's better to let go than to hold on to anger and hate.
 
mj_brainiac;3636954 said:
We've only seen them in public. We don't know how they've reacted and coped in private so none of us can really say we've watched go through all the stages

and Jermaine has been VERY vocal about his attitude towards Murray
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All of them have called Conrad Murray “Just the fall guy” and minimized his role in Michael’s death and mistreatment. They can’t grieve publically but they have had no problem whatsoever going on every television network and tabloid rag to criticize Michael’s parenting and drug addiction.
 
I didn't like Tito's statement. Its too soon for a family member to feel that way about the killing of a loved one. I could understand if it had been many years down the road but the wound is still fresh. Would he be so quick to forgive if it had been one of his sons?

Did he watch the trial? Murray was horrible to his brother, treated him inhumanely. How do you forgive so soon? At best, it should still be a struggle. Besides, Murray has shown no remorse or regret.. Why you so willing to give him something he hasn't asked for. It almost sounds like Tito thinks Michael brought it on himself and Murray just got caught up in Michael's madness.

They will never publicly admit Joseph was a terrible father. We can give it up waiting for that to happen. They're just going to keep playing that Jackson family dream mythology to the world and they know he was abusive. Michael wasn't lying. He just didn't want to dance anymore to the Jackson family myth while they're still holding onto it. Other than that, I had no quarrel with the interview.
 
goldiee said:
I didn't like Tito's statement. Its too soon for a family member to feel that way about the killing of a loved one. I could understand if it had been many years down the road but the wound is still fresh. Would he be so quick to forgive if it had been one of his sons?

Did he watch the trial? Murray was horrible to his brother, treated him inhumanely. How do you forgive so soon? At best, it should still be a struggle. Besides, Murray has shown no remorse or regret.. Why you so willing to give him something he hasn't asked for. It almost sounds like Tito thinks Michael brought it on himself and Murray just got caught up in Michael's madness.

They will never publicly admit Joseph was a terrible father. We can give it up waiting for that to happen. They're just going to keep playing that Jackson family dream mythology to the world and they know he was abusive. Michael wasn't lying. He just didn't want to dance anymore to the Jackson family myth while they're still holding onto it. Other than that, I had no quarrel with the interview.
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Amen Goldiee! I couldn't agree more strongly.
 
goldiee said:
I didn't like Tito's statement. Its too soon for a family member to feel that way about the killing of a loved one. I could understand if it had been many years down the road but the wound is still fresh. Would he be so quick to forgive if it had been one of his sons?

Did he watch the trial? Murray was horrible to his brother, treated him inhumanely. How do you forgive so soon? At best, it should still be a struggle. Besides, Murray has shown no remorse or regret.. Why you so willing to give him something he hasn't asked for. It almost sounds like Tito thinks Michael brought it on himself and Murray just got caught up in Michael's madness.

They will never publicly admit Joseph was a terrible father. We can give it up waiting for that to happen. They're just going to keep playing that Jackson family dream mythology to the world and they know he was abusive. Michael wasn't lying. He just didn't want to dance anymore to the Jackson family myth while they're still holding onto it. Other than that, I had no quarrel with the interview.
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This is perhaps the best post in this thread.

It sums things up pretty well. Doesn't it?

I have always felt that the Jacksons had no emotional bond with MJ. To them, MJ was just a cash machine. That's it. and this interview only reinforces that perception, sadly.

The circumstances of MJ passing are just too tragic to just forgive, especially when his murderer shows no signs of remorse or whatsoever. In fact, CM seems more defiant and arrogant. You can't just forgive people like that after only 3 years.
 
Some posts on this page are ridiculous. No one here has the right to decide when it's too soon or when it's been long enough before someone can forgive. I can't forgive Conrad Murray, but I wish I could and if Tito can then I really respect him for that. Giving someone abuse because they don't want to hate seems stupid to me.
 
It's tough to forgive. Maybe it was just me but when the brothers and Piers were watching clips of motown 25 the brothers were all smiling but Tito. He barely looked at it. It just came across to me that he doesn't want to carry all this hate and anger with him. It can eat you up. For me, I can't forgive it's hard.
 
Gee...I'm with Jermaine on this one. I can't forgive Conrad who is still a danger because when he is out of jail he will talk smack to earn money for what he did thanks to Katherine. I feel Tito will regret his forgiveness when that happens. Although I know he don't want to walk around with hate in his heart is what he meant. But, Conrad with that documentary he made showed he really could careless about MJ and most likey after jail will continue having the same attitude. Conrad will forever be someone they/we could never forget and will always cause issues as long as he can earn money from what he did. It's hard not to hate that!
 
StellaJackson said:
How is it Katherine's fault that Murray will talk when he gets released?
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Because she wanted the restitution matter against Murray dropped. It would have stopped him from making money off of Michael's death. Now when he gets out you know he is going to try to make money from this. That is what I understand from it. I wish the family had not done that.
 
StellaJackson said:
How is it Katherine's fault that Murray will talk when he gets released?
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Because she had the right to restitution.

Even though it's not the same as a gag order, he'd think twice before pulling stunts with the media, because everyone would know he got paid for it. The restitution sum he owes Michael's beneficiaries would have been in the millions, and everytime he does a TV appearance or tab interview he'd be required to pay towards that cost.

But Katherine waived off her right to restitution from Murray, because she wanted money from AEG. A billion dollar company, if found at fault, would have no issue paying the full amount in one go, in contrast to Murray. Murray would only be required to pay whenever he earns, which is why selling Michael to the tabs would be a no-no for him. Murray would have died guilty and in debt, because he'd not have been able to raise or pay off the entire amount in this life.

Katherine went away with the more profitable option: AEG.

Once out of jail, when Murray would surely do media rounds talking ish about Michael, you can thank Katherine for that.
 
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Yep to the 2 post above me. That's why I said " Thanks to Katherine" on my post. Now Murray can make money and keep it talkin the mess he will surely speak when he is free. Oh how I dread that day and the yrs to come. *SIGH*
 
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