More CAREFUL??? I'm useally the most careful... to the point, where everything I post is boring! So if I have to be more careful than that, then I might as well better leave. Thanks anyway.
SoS;4299465 said:Well this thread is here for a reason? Mods undermine Gaz decision for a discussion thread and complete and lively discussions can’t peacefully happen because of people who reserve the right to derail it with judgement over and over again?
It says “observations “ and “inconsistencies” and every fan ought to be allowed, encouraged even, to analyze together in peace.
We are not undermining Gaz. Gaz doesn't want to censor this kind of discussion, but that also means not censoring the people who object to this kind of discussion. This thread is abhorrent to a lot of the members here, so if you choose to participate that is something you just have to accept.
SoS;4299558 said:To be clear ...please read my sentence again in context.....my POINT was in stating that you undermine the decision for the thread to be here when you allow or interject derailing comments..,.else why is this thread here if the TOPIC can’t be freely engaged? Continuously negative feedback about the thread’s existence imho undermines its presence. Yes everyone has free speech without exception, including negative, it’s just this thread that gets it the most gratuitously in my opinion.
Eg,
After 4 months of “crickets” since February someone repeats the question in June and then is asked, what’s the “urgency”..
All I am asking is that you guyz try and make the thread more functional for such a sensitive discussion...it’s already tough enough.
That’s my feedback and my opinion.
Mikky Dee;4299586 said:Murray knew how to do CPR. He also knew it was a waste of time because Michael was already dead and had been for a while, before finally being discovered by Murray. The 911 call and the "pretending" to administer CPR, etc. was all smoke and mirrors for the benefit of others, because Murray did not want to pronounce MJ dead at the house. If he did, then the negligence was all on him and he wanted to avoid that, at all costs and try to save his own hide. That's why the entire facade of Michael being rushed to hospital and worked on by hospital staff happened......Murray told the paramedics when they arrived that he had found a weak pulse, but that is likely to have been a lie, like much of what came out of his mouth, that day and many other days afterwards. MJ was pronounced dead at 2:26 in the afternoon at Cedar Sinai, but Murray knows damn well that it happened MUCH earlier than that and the paramedics probably know it, too....they just had to bow to the "superiority" of a doctor and believe what he told them.
SoS;4299558 said:It seems to me the question of “alleged victim” asks, is there proof there is a victim...clearly the question answers itself by it being a murder trial plus the autopsy pics in evidence so it is evident and obvious fact that there is a victim, so nothing is “without proof” as far as that ....the only next question then is in the victim”s identity.
How can the date be an “allegation” when we all watched it unfold on the exact date? The date is not on trial. - the person is - the date is not “alleged” at all...we were there.
At the time of the rendering of the verdict there was no “alleged” victim or date - those were facts that created the case in the first place.
SoS;4299558 said:You might consider that the first word in this thread title is “Hoax” which is an offensive concept, repugnant to many to be sure. It is old from 2009 when all this speculation first began and seems to elicit the biggest “knee jerk” responses...what MJ wouldn’t do to his: children, family fans etc.
To be clear ...please read my sentence again in context.....my POINT was in stating that you undermine the decision for the thread to be here when you allow or interject derailing comments..,.else why is this thread here if the TOPIC can’t be freely engaged? Continuously negative feedback about the thread’s existence imho undermines its presence. Yes everyone has free speech without exception, including negative, it’s just this thread that gets it the most gratuitously in my opinion.
Eg,
After 4 months of “crickets” since February someone repeats the question in June and then is asked, what’s the “urgency”..
All I am asking is that you guyz try and make the thread more functional for such a sensitive discussion...it’s already tough enough.
That’s my feedback and my opinion.
Another is about “alleged”
al·leged
/əˈlejd/
Learn to pronounce
adjective
(of an incident or a person) said, without proof, to have taken place or to have a specified illegal or undesirable quality.
I would go with the theory that minus a verdict it is all “alleged” until this defendant is found guilty or not,
however..
It seems to me the question of “alleged victim” asks, is there proof there is a victim...clearly the question answers itself by it being a murder trial plus the autopsy pics in evidence so it is evident and obvious fact that there is a victim, so nothing is “without proof” as far as that ....the only next question then is in the victim”s identity.
How can the date be an “allegation” when we all watched it unfold on the exact date? The date is not on trial. - the person is - the date is not “alleged” at all...we were there.
At the time of the rendering of the verdict there was no “alleged” victim or date - those were facts that created the case in the first place.
It is an oddity to be sure. Similarly the 911 call:
“Ok let’s get him on the floor”
“Oh ok then, you have a doctor there who has more authority than I do”
At what point did the 911 operator say, “I just gave a doctor with more authority than me, instructions on how to administer CPR for a patient who is most likely dying seeing as how they’re not breathing”....
..maybe alert his immediate reports and/or higher authorities that someone’s life is in peril under the care of a doctor that does not know CPR
If you or I (or any reasonable prudent person) got on a call with a patient who’s not breathing and a doctor that does not know CPR we would not sit there calmly saying to call back if you need anything else.
We would at the very least stay on the call and probably proceed to help the doctor make sure CPR is being administered correctly enough to help the victim. Doctor could have been drunk for all the 911 operator knows.
Questions like these and many others deserve concentration and respectful dialogue and careful analysis...this of all places should be the safest most engaging place to do it imo.
JMHO Thanks
mysterygirl7;4299734 said:Thank you so much for the support. I thought people were being really mean to me. Also it seems now to be alright to discuss EVERYTHING regarding MJ's apperance, plastic surgery etc. So why is it not ok, that I post in this thread, who has been here since 2009?
Anna;4299588 said:Exactly. The paramedics said Michael was clearly dead on arrival. They only took him to hospital and continued working on him at Murray's insistence.
Just saying "victim" already assumes crime. Not everyone who dies is a "victim". The prosecution were saying a crime had occured on that date and had the evidence to prove it, but that didn't automatically legally make it so. That's the point of the trial, for the jury to decide if Michael was the victim of a crime that had been committed by Murray on that date. That's why everything is "alleged". There is nothing odd about this, it's just the way it works.
Anna;4299543 said:We are not undermining Gaz. Gaz doesn't want to censor this kind of discussion, but that also means not censoring the people who object to this kind of discussion. This thread is abhorrent to a lot of the members here, so if you choose to participate that is something you just have to accept.
Murray knew how to do CPR. He also knew it was a waste of time because Michael was already dead and had been for a while, before finally being discovered by Murray. The 911 call and the "pretending" to administer CPR, etc. was all smoke and mirrors for the benefit of others, because Murray did not want to pronounce MJ dead at the house. If he did, then the negligence was all on him and he wanted to avoid that, at all costs and try to save his own hide. That's why the entire facade of Michael being rushed to hospital and worked on by hospital staff happened......Murray told the paramedics when they arrived that he had found a weak pulse, but that is likely to have been a lie, like much of what came out of his mouth, that day and many other days afterwards. MJ was pronounced dead at 2:26 in the afternoon at Cedar Sinai, but Murray knew damn well that it happened MUCH earlier than that and the paramedics probably knew it, too....they just had to bow to the "superiority" of a doctor and act upon what he told them
except this is the farthest thing from funny.comedy of errors
phrase of comedy
a situation made amusing by bungling and incompetence.
A good executive protection training school or company has the following curriculum outline as part of their training:
Protective Advances – Protective Intelligence – Radio Communications – Motorcades and Routes – Firearms and Special Tactics – Public Affairs and Media Control – Emergency First Aid/CPR/AED
some say mj's soul was tired and damaged, and that the trial really ruined him. This is true, but for those who'd like to have faith that he could still be alive, here is a good question. Could mj doubles and impersonators, have helped to carry some of the load...?
SoS;4299751 said:I think the biggest oddity to me is Murray stating on Dr Oz that when he came back in the room it wasn’t the same person laying there (that’s odd) the oddest thing of all being that Dr Oz didn’t ask him what the sam hill he meant by that.
SoS;4299803 said:.Thanks for these links are very helpful to this discuss.
Obviously it doesn’t answer the simple question as to what Murray meant by what he said.
The MAIN question was why did the talk show not address such a wildly bizarre statement...? Any thoughts/theories?
The MAIN question was why did the talk show not address such a wildly bizarre statement...? Any thoughts/theories?
SoS;4299751 said:Absolutely. We didn’t name the thread, “Hoax Theories...” for goodness sake. Of course people are sensitive to that word, I know I am.. but it doesn’t stop me from being able to discuss everything else about this crazy mystery.
They fix it where people can’t discuss any “inconsistencies” or anything without some knee-jerk responder to the word “hoax” icing up with some version of “he died” like everyone is here just for cramps and giggles.
and treat us like it’s our fault that all the negativity is distracting.
On another note , when is someone going to address my comment about the date is not “alleged” and that photo shopped picture on the covers of newspapers all around the world... the 911 operator acting like it makes sense for a non-breathing patient to be in the care of a “higher authority “ who isn’t properly performing CPR. “Call us back if you need anything else”. nobody has any theories I guess.
I realize it’s a mystery to everyone really - it is quite an oddity.
I think the biggest oddity to me is Murray stating on Dr Oz that when he came back in the room it wasn’t the same person laying there (that’s odd) the oddest thing of all being that Dr Oz didn’t ask him what the sam hill he meant by that.
Any theories?
I wonder what is each person’s biggest “oddity”?
No doubt in my mind that every honest fan has at least one...even if they completely concluded that MJ unfortunately is completely 100% dead.
mysterygirl7;4299818 said:What? Did he really say that??? And dr. Oz just let him say it, without asking what he meant?
ScreenOrigami;4299847 said:I may be a bit slow today, but can someone explain to me in a way that’s easy to understand for someone who has only been a fan for about a year now, what this discussion is all about? What are you guys trying to prove, if anything?
. All of that fat guy talk etc is the whole reason such a serious discussion can’t flourish in this environment due to the word “hoax” which opens the way for every unimaginable ridiculousness being included with errors inconsistencies and observations where all the nuances can be discussed. I have not seen a thread that disses nuances except this one. If you know of another please post a link.ScreenOrigami;4299852 said:I still don’t get it. Why do you want to discuss the circumstances of his death specifically in a thread about the death hoax? If you go back to page one, that’s what this thread is. Why not discuss in a different thread? I see people on Twitter talking about that wild hoax theory, and from what I gather it involves some fat guy in a burger restaurant pretending to be MJ in a fat suit or something. That’s ridiculous, and I don’t see how a serious discussion about the death circumstances is supposed to flourish in this environment.