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The Discussion of MJ's Unreleased Tracks

How many parts to this podcast series? Damien has mentioned lots of songs, so even another 2 to 3 would yield a lot of listening if the experience continues like this.
 
SmoothGangsta said:
I don't really see the similarities tbh.
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Maybe saying they're practically identical is too much of a reach but they have a very similar vibe imo. The beat and the backing vocals towards the end of the snippet reminds me a lot of this part in one of the (Cascio's) Monster demos. I don't doubt at all that Eddie Cascio based his version on MJ's.
 
alanram said:
This is possible. Text from their official website:

"For those users who are seeking more targeted records, comprising less than half of the complete U.S. Copyright database, the Library offers the option to purchase a subset of these records at a reduced price. This subset of records is referred to by the Library as a Copyright Select database. For example, purchasers could opt to purchase only registrations and recorded documents for musical works, or to purchase all registration records from a set period of time."
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I had looked into this last year, just too expensive for me right now. It would be great if you could listen and share!
 
AlwaysThere said:
If I’m not mistaken, the copyright office would have to obtain permission from the copyright holder, being the estate. Zero percent chance they’ll let anyone purchase anything outside of private listening sessions.
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Given my own experiences with the Drexel vault, I can say straight-up that is completely true. I listened to four digitized tapes on my visit, but only recieved three for at-home mixing because the copyright holder didn't allow the vault curator to give out the fourth.
 
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SeriousFX said:
Given my own experiences with the Drexel vault, I can say straight-up that is completely true. I listened to four digitized tapes on my visit, but only recieved three for at-home mixing because the copyright holder didn't allow him to give out the fourth.
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Would you be willing to share more about your visit and experience?
 
alanram said:
Would you be willing to share more about your visit and experience?
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This may be off-topic, but alright:

Way back in April of this year, I managed to get in touch with archive director Toby Seay via email and talked about the possibility of visiting Drexel's vault of Sigma Sound tapes. At first I was shocked, because I assumed the vault was closed off to anyone who wasn't some kind of professional archivist/mixer (I'm a complete novice at mixing music), but after a while I eventually managed to schedule a visit for May 17th. My mom and sisters tagged along, mainly as a way to destress them after a harsh college semester.

After a two-hour drive to Philly, I arrived at Drexel, where I met Mr. Seay himself. He ushered us into the archive, where I saw tons of tapes strewn across many shelves. I was already studying what little pictures and videos we had of the room, but nothing could've prepared me for seeing these tapes up-close and personal.

There were tons of tapes, all ordered in the year, day, and month they were recorded. Entire albums worth of tapes were stacked next to each other, some released (Rena Scott, Collins and Collins, First Choice) and some unreleased (Pockets, Patrice Hawthorne). There were even masters for obscure singles (such as The Angels and Experience Unlimited), but the real meat and potatoes for the vault were the many, many tapes containing completely unreleased tracks. Some were from people we all knew, such as David Bowie and Stevie Wonder, but more than often not they were from complete unknowns (the attempted comeback single by prog-rock group Good God, some tracks by a 90s group named Life, etc.).

Many different kinds of tapes were present. There were 2" tapes (16/24 track), 1" tapes (8 track and 32 track), master/slave tapes from the 2" tapes, 1/4" stereo tapes featuring mixes, album masters, and demos (I even got to listen to one by Levert), and even DAT tapes. Some 2" tapes contained live shows by Pieces of a Dream and Patti LaBelle, both done around the mid '80s, while several other tapes (2", 1", and 1/4" alike) contained commercial spots for Kodak and AT&T, among other companies.

Mr. Seay allowed me to listen to various tracks, from 16trk pre-overdub tapes of Instant Funk songs to an entire 24trk obscure single by a band named Raw Silk (NOT the New York band, but a different one from California), all the way to a Philly Groove tape featuring unreleased Ben Aiken and First Choice songs. Seay was quite possibly one of the nicest vault curators I've ever seen, and when we brought up the idea of a second visit in October, he was more than happy to oblige (I'll have to get back to him about that on September).

By the time we left an hour and a half later (I wanted to stay longer, but parking laws dictated we had to leave by 4pm), I'd taken enough pictures to fill up my entire camera roll. Over 330 pictures were taken, depicting the vault in all its glory. My wonderment at seeing a tape vault in person knew no bounds.

If you got any questions about my visit, feel free to ask me.
 
I can understand why some consider "Monster" to be one of Michael's most complex and experimental instrumentals.

While it's disappointing that, aside from the "You've created a monster" line, there are no lead vocals, I still love the production approach from what little we've heard. It feels like a more modern version of "Ghosts," with fresh sounds not used in any of his other tracks. If you use AI to isolate the drums and various instruments, you'll see what I mean, it was totally something new for Mike.
 
We have an MJ song (vocals only in the chorus) called Monster............Before I knew about all the BS of the Cascio songs, I brought our Monster for Teddy to hear, because the chorus would have worked with the Cascio version. He didn’t want to use it, and I now know why. - Michael Prince
 
SeriousFX said:
This may be off-topic, but alright:

Way back in April of this year, I managed to get in touch with archive director Toby Seay via email and talked about the possibility of visiting Drexel's vault of Sigma Sound tapes. At first I was shocked, because I assumed the vault was closed off to anyone who wasn't some kind of professional archivist/mixer (I'm a complete novice at mixing music), but after a while I eventually managed to schedule a visit for May 17th. My mom and sisters tagged along, mainly as a way to destress them after a harsh college semester.

After a two-hour drive to Philly, I arrived at Drexel, where I met Mr. Seay himself. He ushered us into the archive, where I saw tons of tapes strewn across many shelves. I was already studying what little pictures and videos we had of the room, but nothing could've prepared me for seeing these tapes up-close and personal.

There were tons of tapes, all ordered in the year, day, and month they were recorded. Entire albums worth of tapes were stacked next to each other, some released (Rena Scott, Collins and Collins, First Choice) and some unreleased (Pockets, Patrice Hawthorne). There were even masters for obscure singles (such as The Angels and Experience Unlimited), but the real meat and potatoes for the vault were the many, many tapes containing completely unreleased tracks. Some were from people we all knew, such as David Bowie and Stevie Wonder, but more than often not they were from complete unknowns (the attempted comeback single by prog-rock group Good God, some tracks by a 90s group named Life, etc.).

Many different kinds of tapes were present. There were 2" tapes (16/24 track), 1" tapes (8 track and 32 track), master/slave tapes from the 2" tapes, 1/4" stereo tapes featuring mixes, album masters, and demos (I even got to listen to one by Levert), and even DAT tapes. Some 2" tapes contained live shows by Pieces of a Dream and Patti LaBelle, both done around the mid '80s, while several other tapes (2", 1", and 1/4" alike) contained commercial spots for Kodak and AT&T, among other companies.

Mr. Seay allowed me to listen to various tracks, from 16trk pre-overdub tapes of Instant Funk songs to an entire 24trk obscure single by a band named Raw Silk (NOT the New York band, but a different one from California), all the way to a Philly Groove tape featuring unreleased Ben Aiken and First Choice songs. Seay was quite possibly one of the nicest vault curators I've ever seen, and when we brought up the idea of a second visit in October, he was more than happy to oblige (I'll have to get back to him about that on September).

By the time we left an hour and a half later (I wanted to stay longer, but parking laws dictated we had to leave by 4pm), I'd taken enough pictures to fill up my entire camera roll. Over 330 pictures were taken, depicting the vault in all its glory. My wonderment at seeing a tape vault in person knew no bounds.

If you got any questions about my visit, feel free to ask me.
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Very interesting. That must have been a unique moment. Nice to hear that they also have live shows and commercial spots. A real-life time machine.
 
AlwaysThere said:
If I’m not mistaken, the copyright office would have to obtain permission from the copyright holder, being the estate. Zero percent chance they’ll let anyone purchase anything outside of private listening sessions.
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Incorrect i got permission form the office some tracks are not copyrighted by the estate
 
TheJacksonUnreleased said:
Incorrect i got permission form the office some tracks are not copyrighted by the estate
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Some are by the estate, others are by Mijac Music, which the estate oversees. (Or is it Sony?) Either way, if it were easy to simply request personal copies of US Copyright registries, I feel like anyone would do it.
 
kreen said:
No, you can't : recording devices are forbidden. You can only take notes.
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Nope you actually Can have copies i was in the copyright office 2 weeks ago they told me to keep in touch with me in November to actually get those tracks i do a honor for the fans

They deserve something to get leaked the highest tracks like Water and Monster will be leaked but thé others with be put for the money because you can't leak everything in one click
 
Fuzball said:
Obtaining Access to and
Copies of Copyright Office
Records and Deposits
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Copies of Phonorecord Deposits
If you request a reproduction of a phonorecord, such as an audiotape, cassette, CD, or diskette, in which either a sound recording or the underlying musical, dramatic, or literary work is embodied, the Copyright Office will provide proxi- mate reproduction. Because of the characteristics of available sound reproduction, all frequencies contained in the original phonorecord may not be reproduced.
The Copyright Office will provide the title and the regis- tration number of the phonorecord. In response to a specific request, the Copyright Office will provide reproductions of any printed or other visually perceptible material deposited with the phonorecord.

It looks like you can request copies of audio recordings; they just won't be the same quality as the originals.
 
ChanceToDance said:
I wonder how long it'll take for the seminar recording of Water to get leaked now that we got all the vocal parts, the song can't be worth that much at this point since the only thing it has to offer now is a LQ instrumental lol. If I were offered the song I wouldn't dare to spend more than $100 on it.
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you'll never know, some MJ collectors have been known to gatekeep INSTRUMENTAL DEMOS of all things
 
TheJacksonUnreleased said:
Nope you actually Can have copies i was in the copyright office 2 weeks ago they told me to keep in touch with me in November to actually get those tracks i do a honor for the fans

They deserve something to get leaked the highest tracks like Water and Monster will be leaked but thé others with be put for the money because you can't leak everything in one click
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This was an issue I faced—not only is it expensive, but you also have to request materials months in advance. The process itself takes time.
 
Hollywood_Tonight said:
Copies of Phonorecord Deposits
If you request a reproduction of a phonorecord, such as an audiotape, cassette, CD, or diskette, in which either a sound recording or the underlying musical, dramatic, or literary work is embodied, the Copyright Office will provide proxi- mate reproduction. Because of the characteristics of available sound reproduction, all frequencies contained in the original phonorecord may not be reproduced.
The Copyright Office will provide the title and the regis- tration number of the phonorecord. In response to a specific request, the Copyright Office will provide reproductions of any printed or other visually perceptible material deposited with the phonorecord.

It looks like you can request copies of audio recordings; they just won't be the same quality as the originals.
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Correct on this
 
I can actually confirmed the real Monster that you Heard form the snippet is actually real but Is registered is Monster (2010)

I only Heard the original Monster form 1998 registered is Monster only in copyright office

A reworked version exist
 
LucianoWalker said:
I would really hope that someone will leak Cascio's stems at once.
I still wonder why people still keep that
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The most interesting part of this are Hollywood Tonight 2008 (Demo) and Monster Real version the others cascio tracks i Don't fucking Care they are all Fake Jason have talent but i Don't understand to this day why he got involved in something like this
 
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