Teddy Riley Interview: Unreleased song Joy sung by Michael Jackson will be given to Estate!

[AlwaysThere]

I didn't really mean they sucked, bad use of words.

They sounded dated. Teddy gave Michael street credibility again, if it wasn't for the 93 scandal Dangerous alone would have kept Michael relevant for another 5 years.

Anyone doubting Riley's brilliance as a producer needs to listen to a Bobby Brown track he produced, sonically every song Bobby did could be a Michael song.

I always figured that Dangerous sounded dated because most of the outtakes we've heard date to 1989, about a year before Teddy joined production. Before that Michael was making the album seem more like a sequel to Bad. When Teddy showed up everything changed. Just look at the before and after recordings of Dangerous - one sounds straight from the Bad sessions where the other sounds fresh.

Teddy IS indeed a great producer but we're still irritated to what he did with Hollywood Tonight. I personally LOVE the instrumental he put together, but the processing effect on the vocals paired with the bridge that completely changes the story of the song is atrocious. If he appears on the next album for any reason it better be to make some musical touch-ups to his own unreleased recordings.

 

[HIStory]

When did Teddy last produce a hit?

 

[Lucilla]

People don't have to like the man's music, that's subjective, but claiming he's nothing special or isn't all that is just laughable.

I don't think that claiming he did a better job under MJ's guidance is doubting of all his talent though. I like what I hear in Invincible but he was too young when he worked in Dangerous and after "Michael" album I think is pretty obvious who made it happen.

 

[T.N.A.]

When did Teddy last produce a hit?

Great question...

Teddy Riley single-handedly invented a new genre (New Jack Swing)...

...and boy, time wasn't very nice with that genre. Some might go as far as saying it hasn't aged well at all, and I quite frankly agree with that. Nobody said Teddy Riley is a horrible producer, he's a good one (not a great one and certainly not the best), a bit overrated but he knows his stuff... actually, KNEW his stuff.

The problem is that he's... well, a lot of things, some of which might get me a warning if I'd say them...

 

[Themidwestcowboy]

I always figured that Dangerous sounded dated because most of the outtakes we've heard date to 1989, about a year before Teddy joined production. Before that Michael was making the album seem more like a sequel to Bad. When Teddy showed up everything changed. Just look at the before and after recordings of Jam - one sounds straight from the Bad sessions where the other sounds fresh..

Wait, what before Jam recording are you talking about?

 

[SeriousEffect.]

Jam was written by Riley and MJ.

i believe the previous poster means the original version of Dangerous

 

[dmehta]

Teddy Riley is a brilliant producer. It's funny how most of you are constantly complaining that people should just respect Michael for his professional accomplishments and forget his personal life but won't afford the same luxury to others around him that contributed to his success. We've all heard the Dangerous album outtakes that Michael was working on before Teddy got involved, they sucked to be frank.

Teddy most likely was going along with the MJ is alive hoax just to help raise publicity for the MICHAEL album. If Michael could have one wish from the grave he would want to keep up the mystery that surrounded him his entire life and what better way than the alive theory?

Teddy Riley is a great producer and did some great work on Dangerous - that's why MJ continued to work with him after Dangerous.

However, to say that MJ's demos all sucked before TR came onboard is frankly ridiculous for the simple reason that the best stuff on Dangerous - IN MY OPINION - is the 2nd half of the album. The run of songs from Black Or White to Who Is It, Give In To Me, Will You Be There, Keep The Faith, Gone Too Soon and Dangerous is simply stunning. I know TR worked on Dangerous, and MJ didn't write Keep The Faith or Gone Too Soon, but songs like Who Is it, Give In To Me and Will You Be There are some of MJ's finest work. Much better than She Drives Me Wild, Can't Let Her Get Away and Why You Wanna Trip On Me, as good as those songs are.

 

[mjjmsc]

cool, can't wait!

 

[HIStory]

I don't think that claiming he did a better job under MJ's guidance is doubting of all his talent though. I like what I hear in Invincible but he was too young when he worked in Dangerous and after "Michael" album I think is pretty obvious who made it happen.

Yes, I don't think most people here question Teddy's past achievements but what he did on the Michael album just wasn't good, so it's natural if people have doubts about him after that.

 

[SoCav]

Teddy did some great work in the late '80s and early '90s and was an innovator at the time. He deserves credit for that. I also think his style clicked with Michael at the time, and they created some tremendous up- and midtempo tracks together that still sound very good, imo. However, his work on Dangerous clearly represents his peak to me. None of what he did after that has impressed me. His contributions on Invincible were not very special, imo, and his work on the Michael album was atrocious. I am against producers 'finishing' unreleased tracks anyway, but if they do want to go that route, Teddy is certainly not someone I would like to see involved again, for all the reasons that have been mentioned in this thread.

 

[144000]

u know me. i love Invincible, but even I say that it's strongest track is a solo Michael track...'Speechless'...a timeless song that practically carries that album. YRMW was a charter but i think another producer worked on that one, once again, made to peak, by Michael...oh yeah..Darkchild, whom MJ was gracious enough to mention.

 

[AlwaysThere]

Wait, what before Jam recording are you talking about?

i believe the previous poster means the original version of Dangerous

Whoops! Thanks, SeriousEffect. I did mean Dangerous, sorry

 

[Thoth]

Great question...

When was the last time any LEGENDARY producer produced a hit? That's why they're called Legends. If that's your argument..then when was the last time Q produced a hit? Does that detract from his talent and value as a legendary music maker or what he did for the industry? I think not.

a bit overrated

Nope. Underrated and forgotten by many, including some of Michael Jackson fans sadly.

 

[Thoth]

I don't think that claiming he did a better job under MJ's guidance is doubting of all his talent though.

I didn't say working with Michael didn't make him a better producer & i'm not sure why you bring it up. But I'm sure he learned a lot of Michael and the opposite. Michael always pushed his producers to great limits, ask Rodney and Jimmy Jam.

I like what I hear in Invincible but he was too young when he worked in Dangerous

Age has absolutey nothing to do with it. Q was 50 + when he produced the biggest selling album of all time. What's age have to do with talent?

and after "Michael" album I think is pretty obvious who made it happen.

Sorry but ANY project without Mike's input is useless in my book. Good or Bad, that 'Michael' album is worthless to me. Same goes for "Vision", Bad25 and any other project released in his absence. So (as a 26 + year MJ fan) I don't care if it's up to par or not because the man isn't here to bless it. The Estate want's to release a demo or unheard gem UNTOUCHED that's fine by me, but calling up producers, whoever they are (Teddy, Lenny or even Quincy) and trying to 'craft' an album without the man's vision is pointless. Just my opinion. So my point is, if Teddy ruined Hollywood tonight or made it the greatest sequel to Billie Jean it makes absolutely no difference to me.

 

[Ashtanga]

:blink:

 

[144000]

Sorry but ANY project without Mike's input is useless in my book. Good or Bad, that 'Michael' album is worthless to me. Same goes for "Vision", Bad25 and any other project released in his absence. So (as a 26 + year MJ fan) I don't care if it's up to par or not because the man isn't here to bless it. The Estate want's to release a demo or unheard gem UNTOUCHED that's fine by me, but calling up producers, whoever they are (Teddy, Lenny or even Quincy) and trying to 'craft' an album without the man's vision is pointless. Just my opinion. So my point is, if Teddy ruined Hollywood tonight or made it the greatest sequel to Billie Jean it makes absolutely no difference to me.

i agree with that.

 

[HIStory]

When was the last time any LEGENDARY producer produced a hit? That's why they're called Legends. If that's your argument..then when was the last time Q produced a hit? Does that detract from his talent and value as a legendary music maker or what he did for the industry? I think not.

Well, Cirque du Soileil Love album (for their Beatles show) was produced by George Martin. It went 2x platinum in the US and was Nr 1 in several countries. I think that can be considered a hit.

I know that the Beatles are in a special position, because people just eat up anything Beatles, but it's not just that. Martin gave the Beatles' music a new sound on that album (it's a remix album), but did not bucther it like Teddy butchered Michael's music on the Michael album. Had he done such a sloppy work as Teddy did, I think Beatles fans would have been just as upset as we are with Teddy. And rightfully so.

It's completely understandable if fans of an artist do not want the music of their star to be butchered.

 

[Lucilla]

I didn't say working with Michael didn't make him a better producer & i'm not sure why you bring it up. But I'm sure he learned a lot of Michael and the opposite. Michael always pushed his producers to great limits, ask Rodney and Jimmy Jam.

I didn't say you didn't say it. It was just a general idea that I see most people here have, I think that's not like saying Teddy has no talent at all.

Age has absolutey nothing to do with it. Q was 50 + when he produced the biggest selling album of all time. What's age have to do with talent?

I wasn't talking exactly about age but experience. When we compare Q and TR in the 90's, one was a legend and the other was just starting.

Sorry but ANY project without Mike's input is useless in my book. Good or Bad, that 'Michael' album is worthless to me. Same goes for "Vision", Bad25 and any other project released in his absence. So (as a 26 + year MJ fan) I don't care if it's up to par or not because the man isn't here to bless it. The Estate want's to release a demo or unheard gem UNTOUCHED that's fine by me, but calling up producers, whoever they are (Teddy, Lenny or even Quincy) and trying to 'craft' an album without the man's vision is pointless. Just my opinion. So my point is, if Teddy ruined Hollywood tonight or made it the greatest sequel to Billie Jean it makes absolutely no difference to me.

I can agree with that, I wouldn't use the word "useless/worthless" though

 

[Ashtanga]

This subject will yield much discussion.... :fear: I'm seeing.

 

[Thoth]

When we compare Q and TR in the 90's, one was a legend and the other was just starting.

And that 21/22 year old who was just starting was able (with Michael's vision to guide him) to craft a 'Masterpiece' that would outsell Quincy's (The Legend's) Bad. and that's why as much as I love Quincy to death. I look up to Teddy more and he inspires me. He proved that age is nothing when you have the talent, the confidence and to top it all an artist as big as Michael Jackson who has faith in you... nothing's impossible.

I can agree with that, I wouldn't use the word "useless/worthless" though

Like I said...It's my personal opinion

 

[8701girl]

Teddy gave Michael street credibility again, if it wasn't for the 93 scandal Dangerous alone would have kept Michael relevant for another 5 years.

I have to admit i totally agree with that as the dangerous album has always been my number 1 fave mj album of all time. If the allegations didnt happened that album would totally gone off the hook in the charts for a long time.

 

[bluetopez]

But to get back on topic .. What do you think of the song "Joy" being released with Michael's vocals, In your opinion do you think it will be a strong contender for being placed on a new MJ album ?

Yes, I think it would but, only if they leave it as it is. :angel: No more over producing pls!!

 

[T.N.A.]

When was the last time any LEGENDARY producer produced a hit? That's why they're called Legends. If that's your argument..then when was the last time Q produced a hit? Does that detract from his talent and value as a legendary music maker or what he did for the industry? I think not.

True. Though that's not quite the point I was trying to make...

Nope. Underrated and forgotten by many, including some of Michael Jackson fans sadly.

You forgot to add "in my opinion" to that statement. Otherwise some might start think that's actually a universally known truth, objectively speaking. Which of course it isn't, subjectively speaking...

 

[Thoth]

You forgot to add "in my opinion" to that statement. Otherwise some might start think that's actually a universally known truth, objectively speaking. Which of course it isn't, subjectively speaking...

Actually it is a universally known truth and here's why....Unfortunately most people and critics only see Michael's best work as his first 3 albums which were produced by Quincy Jones, so he ends up getting nearly all the credit and they BLINDLY rule out anything after that. When in reality Mike's work only got more deeper and creative from Dangerous onward, which started with the help of Teddy Riley. It isn't until recently and with the 20th anniversary for Dangerous that more people started paying attention.

I think someone mentioned this in the previous page, but Teddy's sound gave Mike that street cred that he'd PARTIALLY lost after Thriller, even the BAD album and the tough image they tried to deliver couldn't bring it back. The normal fan and critics weren't sold. He helped him re-invent his sound and image at a very critical time in music history, where the 80's had departed and so a lot of the artists that existed in it. It wasn't until (the 90's) when people heard songs like "She Drives Me Wild" and "Can't Let her get Away" or saw the urban inspired video for "Jam" that they started realizing that "Yea, Michael still has a foot in the streets" lol which he always did by the way but the new jack swing sound with that raw hip-hop edge on Dangerous made it more apparent and believable.

Michael understood the impact of Dangerous that he followed the same blueprint in his following two albums HIStory & Invincible (with or without Riley), with more urban inspired cuts... just listen to songs like 2Bad, This Time Around or the whole Invincible album. It's was Teddy who set that blueprint. Could you imagine Bill's version of Dangerous in an era where Hip-Hop was dominating the music scene? So yea, when you put it all together the man's MAD underrated.

 

[Petrarose]

^^Thoth In your zeal to give Teddy the credit he is due, you go too far in making him the all out cause of the impact of Dangerous. Your post gives no room for Michael's input, influence, & genius that helped make Dangerous the album it is. From reading your post, if I did not know better, I would think Michael sat down, and Teddy told him everything he should do and Michael was a silent partner, when from what others have said Michael played an active role in all his albums. He was not merely a singer.

When you follow Michael's music you will notice that he always tries to do something different. In fact, he talks about that in his book. He changes producers when he feels he wants to do something different, so obviously he saw something Teddy had that would work for him and "both" of them worked as a team to make it happen. There is no need to dismiss Michael's input in order to honor Teddy.

 

[Lucilla]

And that 21/22 year old who was just starting was able (with Michael's vision to guide him) to craft a 'Masterpiece' that would outsell Quincy's (The Legend's) Bad.

Is what I’m saying, but

If there’s someone who outsold “Quincy’s Bad”, that’s Michael Jackson but hey, that’s only my opinion

More credits for MJ if he, with TR’s help, outsold “Quincy’s Bad” I’m not talking about years; of course TR has talent that’s why he worked with MJ, but there was much more experience in MJ that makes him in that era “the teacher”, the captain, the master here probably more than ever (especially since everyone talks like Q “adopted” MJ artistically) working with this new talent who brought that street sound to him.

Again, I’m not taking away credits from TR and I’m happy with that team in the 90’s, but Dangerous was only spiced with a little bit of new jack swing, not drowned in it like for example Bobby Brown’s “Bobby” (album that I like very much by the way). Honestly, that rhythm sounds dated now but not Dangerous. Dangerous has so many immortal songs.

 

[Thoth]

Is what I’m saying, but

If there’s someone who outsold “Quincy’s Bad”, that’s Michael Jackson but hey, that’s only my opinion

More credits for MJ if he, with TR’s help, outsold “Quincy’s Bad” I’m not talking about years; of course TR has talent that’s why he worked with MJ, but there was much more experience in MJ that makes him in that era “the teacher”, the captain, the master here probably more than ever (especially since everyone talks like Q “adopted” MJ artistically) working with this new talent who brought that street sound to him.

I'm talking about the PRODUCERS. Quincy/Teddy. Michael Jackson outsold Quincy's Bad doesn't make sense imo. If you wanna look at it that way... then it should be MJ sold out MJ LOL. I'm talking about how Teddy's sound (with MJ's vision) outsold Quincy's Bad (with MJ's vision). I think you took my post too literal. I NEVER said Mike wasn't the mentor. I'm sure a young cat like Teddy learned a lot of Michael and the opposite (I think I've said this in my previous posts but whatever lol). But even the captain needs a co-captain and after numerous failed attempts (Bryan Loren, Babyface, L.A. Reid) Teddy was the perfect match.

Again, I’m not taking away credits from TR and I’m happy with that team in the 90’s, but Dangerous was only spiced with a little bit of new jack swing.

A little new jack swing? :blink: 7 tracks of the 14, basically half the album is NJS or if you want to be more specific, based on a New Jack Swing template/foundation. Teddy's input and production is the backbone of the album. Teddy came to Michael with 75 demo tracks for Dangerous, they worked on 20, finished 8, and 7 made the album.

 

[Thoth]

^^Thoth In your zeal to give Teddy the credit he is due, you go too far in making him the all out cause of the impact of Dangerous. Your post gives no room for Michael's input, influence, & genius that helped make Dangerous the album it is. From reading your post, if I did not know better, I would think Michael sat down, and Teddy told him everything he should do and Michael was a silent partner, when from what others have said Michael played an active role in all his albums.

And that 21/22 year old who was just starting was able (with Michael's vision to guide him) to craft a 'Masterpiece' that would outsell Quincy's (The Legend's) Bad.

There is no need to dismiss Michael's input in order to honor Teddy.

I'm sure he learned a lot from Michael and the opposite. Michael always pushed his producers to great limits, ask Rodney and Jimmy Jam.

Please read my previous posts before responding. Just sayin'.

 

[Petrarose]

I read all your posts, and I am responding to one specific post which is why I quoted it. Those lines you have above with that smilie face, I saw them too. They only show that there is flip flopping and a lack of a consistent method of analysis. In one post you completely dismiss Michael's input and then in pieces of other posts ^^you throw in Teddy learned a lot from Michael, but these are all over-shadowed by the major thrust of the long post you made which I quoted. We are talking here about 4 lines vs a long long post.

I would like to see people discuss the great Teddy without throwing Michael under the bus. How about simple stating the great things Teddy has done on his own merits. There is no need to dismiss Michael's input in the process. And yes we all know Michael pushed his producers, dancers, the bands playing with him, his designers, & himself. Yet there is more to Michael's input in the studio than pushing his producers to great limits, if I use your words ^^. What made a great album is not merely the fact that he pushed these people. When we emphasize that, it makes it seem that it is the producer who is the key person who made the album what it is. We know that can't be true, because if we use that same analysis, "Michael" would be a major album, and it was not.

 

[Ashtanga]

:fear: