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[PixieJ]

Update: still spiralling out of control and unable to stop watching/researching/ruminating lol. I think I have an addictive personality...

I made the mistake of watching that Youtuber, Roxanne Roxanne's videos of "profile of a ped0phile" and the one about MJ's supposed emotional manipulation. (I see someone has posted those videos in another forum already, but I just want to read more people's thoughts).
Since I don't really want her videos to get any more views I can sum up what she says here (can't remember everything and I don't want to re-watch it):

• she says MJ's marriages/photos/relationships with women were all not real and were only to prove that he was not gay/into little boys
• she says he manipulated fans into believing that all the media is fake and lying (similar to what Donald Trump does) and victimized himself a lot to get sympathy and wanted everyone to believe that he was just a naive, innocent victim (with a personality for the public and his real personality behind closed doors) or something to that effect
• she analyzes the Diane Sawyer interview he did with LMP and doesn't believe LMP and that the marriage was real

Others believe what LaToya said about MJ and believe that the whole story of her husband forcing her to say those things was all made up afterwards so as to protect the family's money-maker- MJ. They silenced her to keep the estate/money going.
I really wish I could just have an opinion and not seek validation from people having the same opinion as me but here I am again wanting someone in these forums to help me feel 100% confident with my belief in MJ's innocence and him being straight and his marriage to LMP being real, LaToya actually lying because she was forced to, and celebrities/friends like Marlon Brando and the Rabbi saying that they believe he did do something with little kids is all just because they want to keep their image safe since they were known to be friends or at least seen with MJ. Now haters say that LaToya was telling the truth and the Jackson family is just using Taj to defend MJ.

Taj has said that his uncle had childlike qualities as well as the genius businessman qualities-- i.e. not a 100% completely naive child, but with some childlike qualities. I do believe that about him. He was too innocent sometimes with what he said. I wish MJ never mentioned "sharing your bed" with someone since everyone spun that into something dirty and it helped fit the narrative of "what is a grown man doing sleeping in a bed with children?" Like Mac said on Larry King, "Michael was never good at explaining himself."

If someone could help me understand why Marlon Brando and Rabbi Schumley changed their opinion on MJ (and Corey Feldman to some extent) as well as Brooke Shields complaining about how he supposedly used her as a publicity stunt to show that he wasn't gay--- that would be greatly appreciated! Brooke said that he lied about dating her when he was on Oprah, right? Was he lying? I guess we will never know because I'm not sure if Brooke is a reliable source anymore. She seems to have changed her opinion on him a lot. :/ What do you guys think? I can understand that maybe he wanted to tell Oprah she was dating her because he wanted to disprove the gay rumours again (and maybe he felt like they had something more than friendship or maybe they really were dating and she said he was lying just because it was trendy to hate on MJ at the time, I don't know). Oh and Tate, too.

I know there are men who claim they slept with MJ and were his secret gay lovers, (like that guy on Howard Stern who said he was with Liberace too), but I'm not sure I buy that. I believe Michael was straight and just had a hard time holding down a relationship because of his super stardom, and not wanting to be with a "groupie" or some other woman who had the wrong intentions. He also wanted to keep his love life private because he wanted the fans to feel like he was still available. His interactions with women and people in his close circle all show/say he was not gay (**and even if he was I would still like him!! not homophobic!!**). I just know that if he was gay, it would help people/haters believe the narrative that he was attracted to little boys.

I choose to believe that him and LMP actually did love each other as much as they could given the media circus circumstances/stress at the time. I can see why people think that all his outings with female celebrities (being seen with Brooke Shields and Madonna) and his marriages were publicity stunts to disprove the gay rumours as well as the allegations. I can see why people say that. He was very good at generating publicity (both good and bad publicity) and had to do some "damage control" so to speak. But, to me, seeing his interactions with female fans and how he flirted, I can see that he was straight and loved and respected women.

Now that I got that off my chest, I hope you guys will understand how I'm feeling and help me (again)!! Please!

Hey, I'm so sorry you are having a rough time with this. I get it.

It truly sucks. I don't know if this is useful advice, but you need to decide these things for yourself. The more you watch, read and listen to other people - especially those in the public eye, the more opinions and often BS without any base or evidence you will come across.

The truth is still as it has been for a long time : everyone wants a piece of Michael Jackson. Everyone has an opinion - whether based on anything or not. Most people in the public eye just say whatever will keep them relevant, famous and rich.

Maybe we had it easier back in the day when there was limited information available. It doesn't matter what others think or say. In your heart you know the answer for yourself.
Honestly, does it even matter if he was straight, gay, in Love with this girl or that? I personally believe he was in love with LMP, and I think he was probably straight.

What matters is, do you think he would hurt a child? Yeah he was different. Brilliant, maybe too naive and in some ways innocent for this world. I believe that.
I do not believe he would have hurt a child deliberately. I don't believe he was a pedophile. I am not sure we can ever truly know 100% because that is the nature of these vile allegations. But based on what those say that were and have remained close to him, what he has said and done in his life, I have chosen to believe the best.

Maybe your boyfriend is right and it is time to take a break from researching this. Take a few days off. It is more important that you have peace than to know every detail, every angle, every opinion out there - most of it is nonsense anyway. None of us can change the outcome of the trials anyway.

 

[MJess]

Hey, I'm so sorry you are having a rough time with this. I get it.

It truly sucks. I don't know if this is useful advice, but you need to decide these things for yourself. The more you watch, read and listen to other people - especially those in the public eye, the more opinions and often BS without any base or evidence you will come across.

The truth is still as it has been for a long time : everyone wants a piece of Michael Jackson. Everyone has an opinion - whether based on anything or not. Most people in the public eye just say whatever will keep them relevant, famous and rich.

Maybe we had it easier back in the day when there was limited information available. It doesn't matter what others think or say. In your heart you know the answer for yourself.
Honestly, does it even matter if he was straight, gay, in Love with this girl or that? I personally believe he was in love with LMP, and I think he was probably straight.

What matters is, do you think he would hurt a child? Yeah he was different. Brilliant, maybe too naive and in some ways innocent for this world. I believe that.
I do not believe he would have hurt a child deliberately. I don't believe he was a pedophile. I am not sure we can ever truly know 100% because that is the nature of these vile allegations. But based on what those say that were and have remained close to him, what he has said and done in his life, I have chosen to believe the best.

Maybe your boyfriend is right and it is time to take a break from researching this. Take a few days off. It is more important that you have peace than to know every detail, every angle, every opinion out there - most of it is nonsense anyway. None of us can change the outcome of the trials anyway.

You're right. Thank you so much for your reply.

Sometimes ignorance is bliss and there definitely is a lot of information (and misinformation) out there. I agree with what you said about him. I know his sexuality doesn't really matter but I believe he was straight and just had a hard time with relationships (which many people see as hIm being a closeted gay pedophile which bothers me). But, I will also choose to believe the best and I'll try to leave it at that. I really have to be happy with my decision-- that he was innocent (and not perfect because nobody is) and did a lot of great things. I wish he could be brought back to life if we could do that, but at the same time, maybe it's best that he can't see all the horrible things being said about him now.

I need to make myself busy with other things, for sure.. I've just always loved him and it keeps bothering me that this BS won't stop..

 

[zinniabooklover]

You're right. Thank you so much for your reply.

Sometimes ignorance is bliss and there definitely is a lot of information (and misinformation) out there. I agree with what you said about him. I know his sexuality doesn't really matter but I believe he was straight and just had a hard time with relationships (which many people see as hIm being a closeted gay pedophile which bothers me). But, I will also choose to believe the best and I'll try to leave it at that. I really have to be happy with my decision-- that he was innocent (and not perfect because nobody is) and did a lot of great things. I wish he could be brought back to life if we could do that, but at the same time, maybe it's best that he can't see all the horrible things being said about him now.

I need to make myself busy with other things, for sure.. I've just always loved him and it keeps bothering me that this BS won't stop..

My two cents. I definitely think you should take a break from this, at least for a while. Sorry, let me rephrase that. You don't have to do anything, there's no 'should' in this. You might want to consider taking a break, though. I don't think this is helping you. You've got yourself into a bit of a spiral. Just step away and have fun with your boyfriend.

If you want to come back to it at a later date I would recommend focusing on factual stuff not other people blowing off in the media or online or whereever. Concentrate on the blogs that go through this stuff meticulously, that have read and analysed the court documents. Lots of Michael's fans have basically turned themselves into investigative journalists. When LN dropped lots of Michael's fans weren't even surprised bc they had already been following the WR / JS lawsuits since 2013. They already knew about the changing narrative. If you feel you are already well-informed about this, great. But there is a huge amount of material to get through - I never got through all of it, especially not the court documents, and I plugged away at this for the best part of two years, iirc.

If you haven't focused so much on the factual side I would recommend that you at least dip into it. Look for the specific questions you are concerned about and check out the available info.

I wouldn't spend time worrying about why the rabbi changed his tune. We can never know bc we don't know him. I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to understand what these people have been saying but they are just opinions. A random youtuber hasn't necessarily got any more ability to analyse the Diane Sawyer interview than anyone else. All they can do is form an opinion. Is this woman a trained and experienced journalist? Is she an academic? Even if she was it doesn't mean her opinion is necessarily right. I don't think it's good to live in an echo chamber and it's fine to challenge our own ideas and opinions now and then. But don't let it overwhelm you.

Here's someone who changed their tune, in public. LMP. She did say some harsh things about Michael but she also later said she regretted it. She realised that the media were just using her. And she was smart enough to have avoided that kind of thing in earlier phases of her life and yet still got drawn in. I think she was hurting for a long time after the marriage ended and got sucked into the media crap against her better judgement. I think once Lisa calmed down a bit she spoke the truth. And that is my opinion. And I might be wrong bc none of us can really know what went on in the marriage. But she consistently said stuff like this:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1763148102129652187

 

[MJess]

My two cents. I definitely think you should take a break from this, at least for a while. Sorry, let me rephrase that. You don't have to do anything, there's no 'should' in this. You might want to consider taking a break, though. I don't think this is helping you. You've got yourself into a bit of a spiral. Just step away and have fun with your boyfriend.

If you want to come back to it at a later date I would recommend focusing on factual stuff not other people blowing off in the media or online or whereever. Concentrate on the blogs that go through this stuff meticulously, that have read and analysed the court documents. Lots of Michael's fans have basically turned themselves into investigative journalists. When LN dropped lots of Michael's fans weren't even surprised bc they had already been following the WR / JS lawsuits since 2013. They already knew about the changing narrative. If you feel you are already well-informed about this, great. But there is a huge amount of material to get through - I never got through all of it, especially not the court documents, and I plugged away at this for the best part of two years, iirc.

If you haven't focused so much on the factual side I would recommend that you at least dip into it. Look for the specific questions you are concerned about and check out the available info.

I wouldn't spend time worrying about why the rabbi changed his tune. We can never know bc we don't know him. I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to understand what these people have been saying but they are just opinions. A random youtuber hasn't necessarily got any more ability to analyse the Diane Sawyer interview than anyone else. All they can do is form an opinion. Is this woman a trained and experienced journalist? Is she an academic? Even if she was it doesn't mean her opinion is necessarily right. I don't think it's good to live in an echo chamber and it's fine to challenge our own ideas and opinions now and then. But don't let it overwhelm you.

Here's someone who changed their tune, in public. LMP. She did say some harsh things about Michael but she also later said she regretted it. She realised that the media were just using her. And she was smart enough to have avoided that kind of thing in earlier phases of her life and yet still got drawn in. I think she was hurting for a long time after the marriage ended and got sucked into the media crap against her better judgement. I think once Lisa calmed down a bit she spoke the truth. And that is my opinion. And I might be wrong bc none of us can really know what went on in the marriage. But she consistently said stuff like this:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1763148102129652187

Thank you also for replying! When I feel ready to read up on it again (maybe when/if this stupid trial happens), then I will start getting back into my research/investigator phase lol (but not just by reading people's opinions that might make me sway the other way or spiral again). This happened to me when I first became a fan too (when I was 10 or something) and I was obsessive. This has definitely been unhealthy for me (and for my younger self).

That's true.. they're just different people's opinions... Marlon Brando is a big disappointment though lol BUT I WILL STOP NOW xD

I love MJ and I hope that this trial or biopic or whatever that comes in the future will finally show the truth. Thank you everyone for your support

<3

 

[MJess]

Update yet again:

I'm back, guys lol. I've been focussing on all the positives about Michael and how I believe he's innocent (which is what I've believed for over 10 years now)- since, when it comes down to it -- it makes no sense for MJ to be lying to the whole world for 30 years or so about his love for children and all the charity work he did, so I feel so much better now! I must say, this whole LN documentary and seeing that he DID have nude photos of children started to sway my opinion and scare me/make me feel sick. I even discussed all this with my parents (my dad is not even a fan of his) and they all agree that it's ridiculous and that the media was just trying to take him down.

However, there are still these things that haters/people who believe he's guilty bring up that I wish I could confidently debunk in my mind:

1. LaToya saying that she believes he's guilty.
--- I know she was apparently in a horrible, abusive relationship with Jack Gordon and he wanted her to say those things to the press for more money... but a lot of people believe that she was actually telling the truth and that the Jackson family told her to stop/keep quiet because they can't ruin the reputation of the main money-maker in the family (Michael). And then there's that thing about Katherine calling Michael a "damn f***ot"...? And LaToya finding cheques that were addressed to the families of the boys as hush money?? It all seems ridiculous...

2. Those books that DID have nude children and were apparently found in a locked drawer with an inscription where he says something about childhood innocence? And the one signed by "Rhonda"?
--Wade testified, when asked, about whether he would feel it's appropriate to share a bed with someone knowing that they have those kinds of books (and they made him look through the pages). He still said "no." If it were me, personally, I would be concerned if I was spending time with someone who had books like that. Do you guys think he was lying to "protect Michael" as he has claimed now? I know in the Diane Sawyer interview, MJ said that he would get lots of fan mail and things that he might not have opened. Haters think he's lying. So, did they find fingerprints on those books? Is it true that his team would screen what mail came in and he would only keep what he thought were the best gifts/letters?

3. Some say he was abusive to Bubbles and didn't take great care of all his animals (like Jane Goodall).
--In Wade's 2005 testimony, he was asked about throwing pebbles with Michael at the lion to get it to roar and he said that they did do that. This bothers me because I liked to believe that MJ loved animals (albeit, maybe his animals got neglected and there are all the arguments about whether it's ethical to buy/have exotic pets or have zoos). Apparently there was also "animal torture/bestiality p0rn"...? Is that true? Where can I find these things? Did they find MJ's fingerprints on any of these controversial books?

4. Only Brandi and Taj defending MJ the most lately
-- Haters say that the Jackson family is using their least-known family members to defend him, since his brothers/sisters/mother have just decided they can't defend him anymore.

Thank you so much to anyone who reads this and responds. I'm actually really glad I've joined this community so I can finally have/read discussions about MJ with fellow MJ fans and I read a lot of the positive forums, not just the "Trials and Tribulations."

<3

I hope to eventually read or listen to all the court documents (which would take a looooong time, but for now, I would really just like to have the short answers from fans who believe he's innocent).

Let's hope that justice will prevail.

 

[etoile 37]

--- I know she was apparently in a horrible, abusive relationship with Jack Gordon and he wanted her to say those things to the press for more money... but a lot of people believe that she was actually telling the truth and that the Jackson family told her to stop/keep quiet because they can't ruin the reputation of the main money-maker in the family (Michael). And then there's that thing about Katherine calling Michael a "damn f***ot"...? And LaToya finding cheques that were addressed to the families of the boys as hush money??

Even when La Toya was calling him a pedophile, she said she never witnessed him abusing children. She only said she saw Michael spending a lot of time with little boys. Well, that was true, Michael did spend a lot of time with little boys. And little girls. And adult men and women. As for the cheques... Michael always gave money and expensive gifts to his friends, what's new? He gave an expensive TV to Chris Tucker just because he said he liked it. lol Elizabeth Taylor gave Michael an ELEPHANT. Was she trying to buy his silence? Unless Michael wrote "hush money" on that cheque, it's hardly evidence of anything, other than Michael's generosity. If a friend of Michael told him he had financial problems, would Michael just say, "Oh well, sucks for you!" Obviously not. He would try to help and write a cheque.

2. Those books that DID have nude children and were apparently found in a locked drawer with an inscription where he says something about childhood innocence? And the one signed by "Rhonda"?
--Wade testified, when asked, about whether he would feel it's appropriate to share a bed with someone knowing that they have those kinds of books (and they made him look through the pages). He still said "no." If it were me, personally, I would be concerned if I was spending time with someone who had books like that.

If you watch a documentary on Africa, chances are you will see footage of little kids walking around naked. If you own Jermaine Jackson's autobiography, then there's a picture of naked children in your book. Context is everything.

The prosecutor had to use art books as evidence because they couldn't find any child porn. I think it says it all.

If you want to know what was found and what wasn't found in Michael's home:

https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2010/07/13/porn-found-in-michael-jacksons-home-2/

https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2010/07/15/porn-found-at-michael-jacksons-home-2/

https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2010/07/16/porn-found-in-michael-jacksons-home/

https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2010/07/20/porn-found-in-michael-jacksons-home-4/

3. Some say he was abusive to Bubbles and didn't take great care of all his animals (like Jane Goodall).
--In Wade's 2005 testimony, he was asked about throwing pebbles with Michael at the lion to get it to roar and he said that they did do that. This bothers me because I liked to believe that MJ loved animals (albeit, maybe his animals got neglected and there are all the arguments about whether it's ethical to buy/have exotic pets or have zoos). Apparently there was also "animal torture/bestiality p0rn"...? Is that true? Where can I find these things? Did they find MJ's fingerprints on any of these controversial books?

They were just trying to get the lion's attention. A lion would barely notice it if you threw a pebble at it.

Wade Robson: And, you know, went to see the lion roar, and it’s pretty much just sitting there, you know, not doing anything. So we picked up a couple little stones and threw them at the cage, you know.

Question: And the prosecutor used the word “stones,” and you said “pebbles.” How big were these things?

Wade Robson: Little, you know -- I don’t know, quarter-inch sort of things.

Question: Were you trying to hurt the lion?

Wade Robson: No.

Question: To your knowledge, was Mr. Jackson trying to hurt the lion?

Wade Robson: No.


There was no "animal torture / bestiality" found.

When Michael had to part with his animals because of his financial problems, all the people who took them in said they were healthy and had obviously been well-cared for. The only people who ever claimed he mistreated his animals were tabloids. Jane Goodall based her remarks on those tabloid stories, she never checked on Bubbles herself.

 

[wendijane]

Update yet again:

I'm back, guys lol.

Good x

but for now, I would really just like to have the short answers from fans who believe he's innocent).

Faith

Let's hope that justice will prevail.

Love

 

[MJess]

Even when La Toya was calling him a pedophile, she said she never witnessed him abusing children. She only said she saw Michael spending a lot of time with little boys. Well, that was true, Michael did spend a lot of time with little boys. And little girls. And adult men and women. As for the cheques... Michael always gave money and expensive gifts to his friends, what's new? He gave an expensive TV to Chris Tucker just because he said he liked it. lol Elizabeth Taylor gave Michael an ELEPHANT. Was she trying to buy his silence? Unless Michael wrote "hush money" on that cheque, it's hardly evidence of anything, other than Michael's generosity. If a friend of Michael told him he had financial problems, would Michael just say, "Oh well, sucks for you!" Obviously not. He would try to help and write a cheque.


If you watch a documentary on Africa, chances are you will see footage of little kids walking around naked. If you own Jermaine Jackson's autobiography, then there's a picture of naked children in your book. Context is everything.

The prosecutor had to use art books as evidence because they couldn't find any child porn. I think it says it all.

If you want to know what was found and what wasn't found in Michael's home:

https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2010/07/13/porn-found-in-michael-jacksons-home-2/

https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2010/07/15/porn-found-at-michael-jacksons-home-2/

https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2010/07/16/porn-found-in-michael-jacksons-home/

https://vindicatemj.wordpress.com/2010/07/20/porn-found-in-michael-jacksons-home-4/


They were just trying to get the lion's attention. A lion would barely notice it if you threw a pebble at it.

Wade Robson: And, you know, went to see the lion roar, and it’s pretty much just sitting there, you know, not doing anything. So we picked up a couple little stones and threw them at the cage, you know.

Question: And the prosecutor used the word “stones,” and you said “pebbles.” How big were these things?

Wade Robson: Little, you know -- I don’t know, quarter-inch sort of things.

Question: Were you trying to hurt the lion?

Wade Robson: No.

Question: To your knowledge, was Mr. Jackson trying to hurt the lion?

Wade Robson: No.


There was no "animal torture / bestiality" found.

When Michael had to part with his animals because of his financial problems, all the people who took them in said they were healthy and had obviously been well-cared for. The only people who ever claimed he mistreated his animals were tabloids. Jane Goodall based her remarks on those tabloid stories, she never checked on Bubbles herself.

Your points make sense. Thank you so much! I'd still like to find out if they found his fingerprints on those books, though... I hope Wade doesn't use that against MJ now, since a lot (if not, most) people would find it uncomfortable that he had those books, even if they consider them "art books." Apparently they were written/photographed by a known ped0phile? I know I should look into this more but my heart and stomach can't take it right now, so I just need answers from fans who are more knowledgeable. <3

And yes, everyone who knew him said he was a very generous person, so that makes sense, too. God, I wish LaToya was never in that awful marriage and none of that happened... and that it's more well-known that she was forced to say those things. I believe her when she retracted her statements and she was with him at the trial. I think if she really believed he did those things, she would not be there to support him... right? I know to non-fans the whole situation she was in seems crazy, but they don't understand how much money you could/can make by telling or selling a negative story about MJ to the press.

I don't think he had it in him to be hurting his animals (but Ron Newton said in interviews that he hit Bubbles after he bit his child, if we can believe or choose to believe that). I understand that chimps can be very aggressive/dangerous, so personally, I can understand if he disciplined him sometimes.


Thank you all!!

 

[MJess]

Good x

Faith

Love

Thank you <3
An underrated, positive song

 

[MJess]

The inscriptions in the books (the one by MJ) and the one by "Rhonda" are suspicious to me, though. Why did this person "Rhonda" write her name in quotation marks? The whole "NAMBLA" argument? The haters go crazy with this one... and then that guy saying in an interview that MJ sent him a book of nude children and signed it? Have you guys seen that "news" story?

I know the media makes a lot of crap up about him, but I can understand why the inscriptions could be taken the wrong way 100%.

This is still the only thing that is bothering me a LOT.

 

[etoile 37]

I'd still like to find out if they found his fingerprints on those books, though...

It was said there was no evidence that Michael ever opened the book that was sent by the fan, in other words, no fingerprints. He wrote this in the other book, so it's fair to assume he did open that one, fingerprints or not: “Look at the true spirit of happiness and joy in these boys’ faces. This is the spirit of boyhood, a life I never had and will always dream of. This is the life I want for my children. MJ.”

people would find it uncomfortable that he had those books, even if they consider them "art books."

But is there even a reason to be uncomfortable about those books, that's the question. The book that Michael opened to write the quote above was a book showing pictures from the shooting of the famous 1963 movie "Lord of the Flies". The prosecutor had to be desperate to use that as evidence.

(but Ron Newton said in interviews that he hit Bubbles after he bit his child, if we can believe or choose to believe that). I understand that chimps can be very aggressive/dangerous, so personally, I can understand if he disciplined him sometimes.

Ron Newt said that Bubbles got down on his knees and started praying with his hands when Michael "hit" him. For the record, chimps don't pray. When you hit an animal, they either cower or strike back, they don't get down on their knees and pray for their life. It was most likely a trick that Bubbles's trainer taught him. Like in this interview with Dick Clark where Bubbles looked like he was answering Dick's questions, but actually he was just doing the little tricks his trainer taught him:

 

[filmandmusic]

Back in the 90 little kids were running around naked at the beach and in campings in my country. Nobody made a big deal out of it. These days it doesn’t happen anymore, innocence is a word long forgotten.

 

[MJess]

It was said there was no evidence that Michael ever opened the book that was sent by the fan, in other words, no fingerprints. He wrote this in the other book, so it's fair to assume he did open that one, fingerprints or not: “Look at the true spirit of happiness and joy in these boys’ faces. This is the spirit of boyhood, a life I never had and will always dream of. This is the life I want for my children. MJ.”


But is there even a reason to be uncomfortable about those books, that's the question. The book that Michael opened to write the quote above was a book showing pictures from the shooting of the famous 1963 movie "Lord of the Flies". The prosecutor had to be desperate to use that as evidence.


Ron Newt said that Bubbles got down on his knees and started praying with his hands when Michael "hit" him. For the record, chimps don't pray. When you hit an animal, they either cower or strike back, they don't get down on their knees and pray for their life. It was most likely a trick that Bubbles's trainer taught him. Like in this interview with Dick Clark where Bubbles looked like he was answering Dick's questions, but actually he was just doing the little tricks his trainer taught him:

Thank you!

I guess I am reading into things too much... and I've lost my innocent mind in a way xD

 

[MJess]

Back in the 90 little kids were running around naked at the beach and in campings in my country. Nobody made a big deal out of it. These days it doesn’t happen anymore, innocence is a word long forgotten.

wow actually?!
I agree.. I think we've all lost our innocence and are quick to think that a man is creepy... No one thought that Mr. Rogers was creepy, right?

I know I lost my childhood innocence when I looked up dirty words in songs on Urban Dictionary lol

 

[zinniabooklover]

"Has there ever been any child pornography found in Michael Jackson’s possession?​

No. The possession of child pornography is illegal and a crime in itself. Despite extensive searches on his homes both in the 1993 and the 2005 case, nothing illegal has ever been found in Jackson’s possession and he was never charged with the possession of anything illegal."

michaeljacksonallegations.com

 

[MJess]

Ok one last thing/two things:

Many people speculate that MJ hung out with boys that were "his type" (kinda cute/"pretty", white or Latino child stars" and then stopped being friends/seen with them after they hit puberty. I know that him and Mac were still friendly after he aged-- he said that they were still friendly (and attended that 30th anniversary concert....which some people say Michael paid him and Liz Taylor to go to...). This is where the whole "I wasn't the special/favourite boy anymore" narrative comes from with WB and JS, right? That MJ would drop them once they hit puberty. He was still friends with Frank Cascio long after he grew up, but it seems like some fans don't believe what Frank says...? And Wade wanting to do the MJ tributes while he was no longer a kid...(but of course now denying it all by saying he was still "in love" with his abuser). And I can understand that Stockholm Syndrome occurs.

Is there reasoning behind MJ having several different kid friends and then not being seen/friends with them after they got older? How I see it is that the kids grew up and wanted to go off to school or get married etc. and MJ still wanted to hang out and play video games /have pillow fights etc. so he wanted to find new kid friends to hang out with (or protect other child stars since he knew how hard it was to be a child star). Or he wanted to show different kids what it was like on tour, and not just let one kid hang out with him. He let LMP go on tour too! From the leaked phone call with Ryan White, we can see how innocent/child-like MJ was by just asking him about how school was going and about going to see the Batman movie lol.

What do you guys think? This is something that I feel is hard to explain and people can easily make their assumptions and take it all in a dirty/creepy direction.

Then there's that whole mock wedding thing that James talks about in LN and the whole thing about MJ buying him things as gifts if he did what he told him to. There is video/surveillance footage of MJ in disguise with a boy in James' neighbourhood and they appear to be jewellery shopping. How do we defend that?

Oh and also the whole "Rubba" and "Applehead" nicknames? I know all the nieces/nephews in his family called him Applehead too for whatever reason. I don't understand the "Rubba" one and I can see why people think that it's dirty. Apparently "Blanket" is also seen as dirty...?

(And of course there's the argument that MJ was straight but asexual/celibate and that he needed to use little boys to release his urges... which just seems so far-fetched. I believe LMP when she said that they were sexually active (or at least I am choosing to believe that and I believe MJ about wanting to keep that private life private, and Frank Dileo and his bodyguards saying that MJ did have girlfriends but kept that private).

I swear after I get answers about this I will stop this obsession lol.

 

[PixieJ]

Ok one last thing/two things:

Many people speculate that MJ hung out with boys that were "his type" (kinda cute/"pretty", white or Latino child stars" and then stopped being friends/seen with them after they hit puberty. I know that him and Mac were still friendly after he aged-- he said that they were still friendly (and attended that 30th anniversary concert....which some people say Michael paid him and Liz Taylor to go to...). This is where the whole "I wasn't the special/favourite boy anymore" narrative comes from with WB and JS, right? That MJ would drop them once they hit puberty. He was still friends with Frank Cascio long after he grew up, but it seems like some fans don't believe what Frank says...? And Wade wanting to do the MJ tributes while he was no longer a kid...(but of course now denying it all by saying he was still "in love" with his abuser). And I can understand that Stockholm Syndrome occurs.

Is there reasoning behind MJ having several different kid friends and then not being seen/friends with them after they got older? How I see it is that the kids grew up and wanted to go off to school or get married etc. and MJ still wanted to hang out and play video games /have pillow fights etc. so he wanted to find new kid friends to hang out with (or protect other child stars since he knew how hard it was to be a child star). Or he wanted to show different kids what it was like on tour, and not just let one kid hang out with him. He let LMP go on tour too! From the leaked phone call with Ryan White, we can see how innocent/child-like MJ was by just asking him about how school was going and about going to see the Batman movie lol.

What do you guys think? This is something that I feel is hard to explain and people can easily make their assumptions and take it all in a dirty/creepy direction.

Then there's that whole mock wedding thing that James talks about in LN and the whole thing about MJ buying him things as gifts if he did what he told him to. There is video/surveillance footage of MJ in disguise with a boy in James' neighbourhood and they appear to be jewellery shopping. How do we defend that?

Oh and also the whole "Rubba" and "Applehead" nicknames? I know all the nieces/nephews in his family called him Applehead too for whatever reason. I don't understand the "Rubba" one and I can see why people think that it's dirty. Apparently "Blanket" is also seen as dirty...?

(And of course there's the argument that MJ was straight but asexual/celibate and that he needed to use little boys to release his urges... which just seems so far-fetched. I believe LMP when she said that they were sexually active (or at least I am choosing to believe that and I believe MJ about wanting to keep that private life private, and Frank Dileo and his bodyguards saying that MJ did have girlfriends but kept that private).

I swear after I get answers about this I will stop this obsession lol.

I am not sure this is real any more. Are you trolling us?

 

[MJess]

I am not sure this is real any more. Are you trolling us?

omg no! I've just looked at all the negative/haters' sides so much that I want to know what fans (who have researched more than me) say. I need to stop seeing what the haters say :/

at the end of the day, I do believe he's innocent. I just want to know how I can defend everything he did since haters/people who think he's guilty seem to always have a counter-argument for everything, you know?

 

[MJess]

maybe I should never have looked at all the haters' opinions... sigh. Now I've upset everyone here... I swear I'm not trolling. I've been a fan since I was 9 or something and I'm 27 now. I remember buying the Invincible album CD from HMV back in the day lol

I'm just looking at the negative arguments too much :/

 

[librariangirl:)]

Back in the 90 little kids were running around naked at the beach and in campings in my country. Nobody made a big deal out of it. These days it doesn’t happen anymore, innocence is a word long forgotten.

I remember that too. Swimwear for little kids was not a thing back in the days.

 

[etoile 37]

omg no! I've just looked at all the negative/haters' sides so much that I want to know what fans (who have researched more than me) say. I need to stop seeing what the haters say :/

There are many fan websites that have covered the allegations in great details. Why not read there instead of going on websites made by haters who purposefully distort the truth?

I just want to know how I can defend everything he did since haters/people who think he's guilty seem to always have a counter-argument for everything, you know?

There's no point defending him from haters. Those people WANT Michael to be a pedophile, they have no interest in the truth. Defend him when people are just misinformed, but when people are purposefully being stupid, don't waste your time on them.

And of course there's the argument that MJ was straight but asexual/celibate and that he needed to use little boys to release his urges... which just seems so far-fetched.

Like this... This is so ridiculous, you don't need a counter-argument for that. If someone pulls out that argument, it's time to find someone else to have conversation with.

 

[zinniabooklover]

omg no! I've just looked at all the negative/haters' sides so much that I want to know what fans (who have researched more than me) say. I need to stop seeing what the haters say :/

at the end of the day, I do believe he's innocent. I just want to know how I can defend everything he did since haters/people who think he's guilty seem to always have a counter-argument for everything, you know?

Echoing what @etoile 37 has just written. You have to decide for yourself. There's no shortcut to this. You don't have to read court documents, I haven't read a huge amount bc there is so much of it and they are difficult to understand. But there is a great deal of helpful analysis out there which, if you read it, will help you to make up your own mind.

 

[librariangirl:)]

Ok one last thing/two things:

Many people speculate that MJ hung out with boys that were "his type" (kinda cute/"pretty", white or Latino child stars" and then stopped being friends/seen with them after they hit puberty. I know that him and Mac were still friendly after he aged-- he said that they were still friendly (and attended that 30th anniversary concert....which some people say Michael paid him and Liz Taylor to go to...). This is where the whole "I wasn't the special/favourite boy anymore" narrative comes from with WB and JS, right? That MJ would drop them once they hit puberty. He was still friends with Frank Cascio long after he grew up, but it seems like some fans don't believe what Frank says...? And Wade wanting to do the MJ tributes while he was no longer a kid...(but of course now denying it all by saying he was still "in love" with his abuser). And I can understand that Stockholm Syndrome occurs.

Is there reasoning behind MJ having several different kid friends and then not being seen/friends with them after they got older? How I see it is that the kids grew up and wanted to go off to school or get married etc. and MJ still wanted to hang out and play video games /have pillow fights etc. so he wanted to find new kid friends to hang out with (or protect other child stars since he knew how hard it was to be a child star). Or he wanted to show different kids what it was like on tour, and not just let one kid hang out with him. He let LMP go on tour too! From the leaked phone call with Ryan White, we can see how innocent/child-like MJ was by just asking him about how school was going and about going to see the Batman movie lol.

What do you guys think? This is something that I feel is hard to explain and people can easily make their assumptions and take it all in a dirty/creepy direction.

Then there's that whole mock wedding thing that James talks about in LN and the whole thing about MJ buying him things as gifts if he did what he told him to. There is video/surveillance footage of MJ in disguise with a boy in James' neighbourhood and they appear to be jewellery shopping. How do we defend that?

Oh and also the whole "Rubba" and "Applehead" nicknames? I know all the nieces/nephews in his family called him Applehead too for whatever reason. I don't understand the "Rubba" one and I can see why people think that it's dirty. Apparently "Blanket" is also seen as dirty...?

(And of course there's the argument that MJ was straight but asexual/celibate and that he needed to use little boys to release his urges... which just seems so far-fetched. I believe LMP when she said that they were sexually active (or at least I am choosing to believe that and I believe MJ about wanting to keep that private life private, and Frank Dileo and his bodyguards saying that MJ did have girlfriends but kept that private).

I swear after I get answers about this I will stop this obsession lol.

I get your confusion and don't think you're a troll. I've been there too! I had lots of questions after LN (as a normal honest person, you don’t think people are capable of lying like that), so I did my research. If you want to go down that rabbit hole take a look at: https://www.themichaeljacksoninnocentproject.com/

1. I believe MJ only could trust children since they didn't have an agenda and as they grow older this might have changed. Also the media makes it look like he only surrounded himself with boys of a certain age, in reality he liked the feel of family and would surround himself with kids of all genders, mothers and fathers (like the Cascios, Chandlers etc.). Sometimes It really angers me though that he didn't stop hanging around kids/families after the first allegations, on the other hand it's an indication of his innocence. You can also see that much of this behavior change after he had his own kids, his own family.

2. We only know about the so called "mock wedding" through the storyteller Safechuck, the one that was molested in a train station that didn't exist. As to the ring; MJ was an extremely generous person. When asked by Geraldo why he didn't wear any fancy jewelry he said he would just give it away to the first kid that admired it. Interesting fact: He gifted Chandlers mother a love bracelet from Cartier. So maybe Safechuck got the ring from him, it wouldn’t surprise me, but it can also be made up. Oh and the “mock wedding” scene in LN was added to the mockumentary months after the filming was done, just to gives it some extra flavor I guess. Isn't it strange that such an important "fact" is just an after thought in the "doc"?

3. During the raid of Neverland the Police found quite an impressive stach of adult heterosexual (except some girl2girl stuff ) pornography. I don’t think an a-/homosexual or pedo man would have had this collection.

 

[MJess]

Thank you everyone! I agree with everyone’s points I feel a lot better now. I wish I could make my own decisions easier :/

(And I love your username- librariangirl)! There’s way too much crap written about Michael. I really want all of this to be put to rest…

But, no more looking at the negative arguments now! Time to jam out to “don’t stop ‘till you get enough” lol


Thank you all!

 

[ineverfelttheneedbut]

Thank You for the thread. @wendijane

 

[Agonum]

Marlon Brando is a big disappointment though lol BUT I WILL STOP NOW xD

I think that Marlon Brando had problems with impulse control at times. Could have been ADHD, perhaps with a touch of Tourette. Meaning, I don’t think he actually believed in those things that he said. Of course, it is in any case unfortunate.

 

[MJess]

I think that Marlon Brando had problems with impulse control at times. Could have been ADHD, perhaps with a touch of Tourette. Meaning, I don’t think he actually believed in those things that he said. Of course, it is in any case unfortunate.

I don't know much about him other than his friendship with MJ and that MJ said he was like a father figure/mentor to him in "Moonwalk." I know Miko Brando, his son, has said that his father's words have been twisted by the media, which makes sense. The media loves to do that, especially when it comes to MJ. :/

I just wish more of MJ's friends would be brave and say that MJ was innocent and was not capable of doing such disgusting things. I know Macauley Caulkin, Brett Barnes, Chris Tucker, and Akon (as well as other black artists) have all said that he was a great person. I appreciate that they've defended him.

Unrelated: Super excited for the upcoming biopic! I heard it's going to include the allegations so I hope they do him/his life justice.

 

[ineverfelttheneedbut]

Bump.
I

 

[TAW1979]

Hey all.

Excuse me, but I'm feeling a little bummed out. A show made a reference to MJ and said how doing so would be problematic. It wasn't the only show that mentioned MJ in a negative light. All of the shows I've seen that have done so are comedies. One of them was cancelled last year, by the way. Not only do they speak about MJ in a bad way, but they do it as a punchline.

I don't know why exactly this has gotten to me. Shows have done the same thing in the past way before there was even a LN, but I paid them no mind. But now, after LN, MJ's become an allegations joke all over again.

I'm sorry again. I didn't want to speak too much on it. It's just something that's been triggering me for some time.

 

[MJess]

Hey all.

Excuse me, but I'm feeling a little bummed out. A show made a reference to MJ and said how doing so would be problematic. It wasn't the only show that mentioned MJ in a negative light. All of the shows I've seen that have done so are comedies. One of them was cancelled last year, by the way. Not only do they speak about MJ in a bad way, but they do it as a punchline.

I don't know why exactly this has gotten to me. Shows have done the same thing in the past way before there was even a LN, but I paid them no mind. But now, after LN, MJ's become an allegations joke all over again.

I'm sorry again. I didn't want to speak too much on it. It's just something that's been triggering me for some time.

I feel ya. I was getting really bummed out and spiralling out of control up there in this thread (if you didn't notice) lol.

The disgusting things said about him and all the horrible jokes/punchlines bother me, too. It's always bothered me. So, I'm just focussing on the positive (easier said than done, I know), and I've started reading Jermaine's book about Michael which is so positive and wonderful, seriously. As for comedy, I like to re-watch clips of Chris Tucker talking about MJ just for laughs.

I hope there will be a time where more and more people respect him as an artist and also as who he was as a person. I feel like next year might be the year that we get closer to that happening.

Don't apologize for how you feel!