Statement from MJ Estate Pg 12 #170 / New Yorker - Did Thriller Really Sell a 100 Million Copies?

Bubs;3760466 said:
Population in Asia is about/around/well over 3 billion - Thriller sold 3 million
Population in Europe over 700 million - Thriller sold 15 million
Population in US 300 million - Thriller sold 32 million

That doesn't make any sense? Michael have been more successful outside of US and according this list, he sold more in US than Asia and Europe combined?

I need to get back to the Asian numbers, 3 million in Asia is laughable.
Here is a list of Asian countries:
Afghanistan
Armenia
Azerbaijan
Bahrain
Bangladesh
Bhutan
Brunei
Burma
Cambodia
China (PRC)
East Timor
Georgia
Hong Kong
India
Indonesia
Iran
Iraq
Israel
Japan
Jordan
Kazakhstan
North Korea
South Korea
Kuwait
Kyrgyzstan
Laos
Lebanon
Macau
Malaysia
Maldives
Mongolia
Nepal
Oman
Pakistan
Papua New Guinea
Philippines
Qatar
Republic of China (Taiwan)
Russia
Saudi Arabia
Singapore
Sri Lanka
Syria
Tajikistan
Thailand
Turkey
Turkmenistan
United Arab Emirates
Uzbekistan
Vietnam
Yemen

Ok, according Bill Wyman, Thriller sold 3 million between these countries:bugeyed
While I understand there are countries that perhaps are not fans of western music, but the are some countries with huge population, e.g. China, Japan, India and Russia which listen western music. This French guy that BW quotes, has he got the numbers from those countries or are those numbers estimates? There is no chance in hell that Thriller only sold 3 million in Asia. It is possible that they don't get official numbers from some countries but in no way it means that Thriller didn't sell there. By looking the list of those countries, I personally would add another 100 million on top of already sold albums:cheeky:


Btw, in China they allow only certain number of foreign films to be shown/year, This Is It was one of them, so there must be big number of MJ fans too.
 
According to wikipedia via Oricon, Thriller had shifted 1.69 million as of November 2009 in Japan.

According to wikipedia via Billboard it's 2.5 million.
 
Even going by the lower number, that leads to conclusion that Thriller sold 1.31 on other Asian countries, if we go by the number 3 million sold in Asia.
 
jamba;3762144 said:
Another MJ hit piece by the same guy.

FRIDAY, JUN 26, 2009 09:26 PM EDT
Michael Jackson’s celebrity suicide
Born to stardom, he never knew what it was like to live or even behave normally
BY BILL WYMAN

CNN’s coverage of Michael Jackson’s sudden illness in the minutes before his death was reported captured nicely the way the media has treated him. Nutty people were allowed to talk at length, including a guy who kept saying his concerts in London were in 2010. (They were scheduled for next month.)

Wolf Blitzer looked into the camera to tell us earnestly that the head of the concert promotion company had told them that Jackson was in “tip-top shape,” and that he’d passed a health exam “with flying colors.”

Funny how an impossibly pampered 50-year-old guy in top-top shape could just keel over dead.

We’re supposed to live in an Age of Paparazzi. Isn’t it curious how stars nonetheless manage to die right before our eyes?

They do it with our complicity.

Born not just to celebrity but to stardom, Michael Jackson never knew what it was like to live normally, or even behave normally. He was drafted into the family’s musical act, the Jackson 5, while in elementary school, and taken to Motown records. He was taught how to live a manufactured image at the feet of Berry Gordy, who was quite good at such legerdemain.

If you’re 9 years old and born to be a star, such training will definitely turbocharge the marketing of your record sales; as for the fact that almost all the money from those sales went to your teacher and not you … well, that was his second lesson.

Trust, truth … these were concepts Michael Jackson learned early on didn’t have much worth. But of course he had his family, right?

His angry father beat him and his eight siblings with some determination, reputable biographers have told us. (Untrustworthy La Toya said that she and Michael were sexually molested, too.) On tour at age 10, Michael tried to sleep as his older brothers banged groupies in the motel rooms they shared. Then all the kids watched in wonder as their father took up with another woman and had a child with her.

Love, marriage, sex … Michael Jackson learned early that those didn’t mean much either. The Jackson 5 had a three-year run, not bad for a kid act. When the family, which realized it hadn’t made any money, left the label, a vengeful Gordy exacted as a price not just a brother – Jermaine, who, married to Gordy’s daughter, stayed at Motown — but even their name. When they moved to Columbia, they couldn’t use the name the Jackson 5.

Michael was all of 14.

In five years he collected himself, extracted himself from his father’s control and recorded two albums that would change the music industry. The best was the first: 1979′s “Off the Wall,” a groovy, irresistible stunner. Blithe and implacable, sparkling and protean, it displayed a lean talent, feline in his sexuality and relaxed in his blackness. The round-faced, broad-nosed charmer looking out from the album’s cover reeked not just of charm but confidence and, for the last time, normality.

Three years later, “Thriller” would take what became an epochal step forward in terms of commerciality. Viewed now, with the benefit of hindsight, we can see Jackson’s evolving physiognomy is symptomatic of an insecurity we didn’t think to question at the time.

His celebrity’s toll on his own and his family’s life became considerable. For some unaccountable reason, after “Thriller” he still lived at home, as his family busied itself with intrigues and cockamamie plans. One imagines him sitting in his room ignoring the knocks at his door as offers of millions came in to the family from across the country and around the world to do just about anything — anything, that is, that Michael would do too.

With the exception of Janet, his youngest sister, who somehow managed to extract herself and create her own extraordinary career, virtually every member of his family managed to blemish their reputations; among other things, more than one of the boys, their father’s sons, were charged with beating up their girlfriends or wives.

The story from that point is a bleak and unrelieved one. Superficial things: Michael’s ludicrous trappings and entourages; the fetishization of the armed militias marching around in his videos; tales of his supposed bizarre doings leaked to tabloids; the grasping grandiosity of his public appearances. Jackson had a flair for exploiting the tabloid celebrity he had, but that was a skill he shared with Anna Nicole Smith and Paris Hilton, and it probably shouldn’t be listed among his unique abilities.

More serious things: mismanaged tours; declining songwriting skills; ever-more erratic album releases.

Even more serious things: an entirely transfigured physical appearance, morphing from an engaging and handsome African-American man into a misshapen Eurasian woman; his skin bleached, his face resculpted; his nose, finally, needing to be practically taped onto his face. He left his race behind and, in a sense, his family too. (The nose, which seemed to have borne the brunt of his obsession with plastic surgery, was his father’s.)

The master of crossover had seemingly crossed over for good.

And finally, a black moral hole, and a descent into a double life as a sexual predator. You’ve heard about not taking candy from a stranger; Jackson’s candy took the form of literal amusement parks. There were nights of fun and sleepovers and inappropriate touching and …

Accusations were leveled many times; most cases were settled; one case, gone to trial, ended in an acquittal in Santa Maria in 2005.

In the obituaries, writers will savor Jackson’s talents, which were unquestioned; his ambition, which was otherworldly and a thing of awe; and his heyday, which lasted really just a few years, and encompassed perhaps two and a half albums. Others will reflect on the tragedies visited upon him and those he visited on others.

I think it’s fair to classify Kurt Cobain’s death as one brought on by medical problems, specifically the roiling interaction of depression and addiction. Jackson’s death is in this sense more purely a suicide, just as Elvis Presley’s was some three decades ago. Like Presley, Jackson at some point stepped through a door, closed it, and turned the key. What went on behind the door we’ll never know.

http://www.salon.com/2009/06/27/michael_jackson_crossover/

For those that might have a message for Bill Wyman, his Twitter handle is @hitsville
 
jamba;3762078 said:
Hi, felipemj, the Diamond Award is for one hundred million in sales. That is the definition of the Diamond Award. That's why Bill Wyman did not do his job b/c he does not even mention this prestigous award. At least he needs to discuss this and take issue with the World Music Awards and the Guinness Book of Records. Instead, he pretends it never happened. You can see the award given in London in 2006 on youtube videos. Instead of doing any research, Wyman relies on "a French music fan, Guillaume Vieira, who, in his off hours as a web developer, obsessively collects sales news from labels and official industry statements all over the globe."

Why are you using the wma diamond award for 'proving' thriller sold 100m? It's an award to artists who have sold 100m albums over the course of their careers which is why previous recipients are artists like rod stewart and bon jovi - it's not to do with 100m selling of one album. Beyonce at the ceremony says thriller has sold 104 (?) m records, which is vague imo - can mean singles, downloads etc as well as albums.

Guillaume viera is pretty respected in the compiling of stats. He was a member of ukmix under his name mj dangerous before he got banned. He's seen as v pro-mj and elvis fans hate him.

Edit: Oh boy, just read that wyman post 25 june article. Honestly, his articles need to have a warning put up so we can steady ourselves. Interesting that he misjudged the mood back then re mj which was far more compassionate. Just hours after death he was ready with his judgements as to cause of death - totally ghastly man.
 
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Sefra and Sue;3762161 said:
You are partially wrong about that ...
man where have you been in the 80s and 90s?
until the 90s it was quite common to sell singles brazilian version of international artists including singles from MJ, in format vinyl, k7 and finally cd.for example was released here singles of YANA :
http://www.discogs.com/Michael-Jackson-You-Are-Not-Alone-The-Remixes-Part-2/release/1700618

in the 80's was translated the song name on the cover and on the label lol
as you can see in the booklet brazilian single of "Beat it"

of course today is different the things have changed... MP3!
but literally say that "don't even exist" you are talking nonsense -_-

I never saw a CD single to sell in a store in my life. if you are talking about promos, they are irrelevant to sales
 
There is a story posted somewhere on this forum about a grandmother who lived in the countryside in Turkey.Far away from westernisation.
When her grandson visited her she had a picture of Michael Jackson on the wall.
He asked her if she knew his name.
No, but she knew he grabbed himself and screamed hi.I like him.
 
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Snow White luvs Peter Pan;3762113 said:
A reminder from The Guiness World Records.

Click to enlarge...

<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v650/Gaby1990/?action=view&current=michael-poses-with-his-seven-guinness-world-records-awards25282552529-m-1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v650/Gaby1990/th_michael-poses-with-his-seven-guinness-world-records-awards25282552529-m-1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket" ></a>

I'll go by what the Guinness book of records says!
guinness3.jpg



And someone should send this to the guy who thinks Elvis moved the universe!
guinness2.jpg


Elvis might have moved the United States, but the universe was Michael's! Elvis was never the kind of global star that Michael was. His sales were mainly in America and Europe. Michael was known and loved even in the most remote corners of the world!
 
jamba;3762137 said:
By 'that dude" i assume you mean the link you gave to the Chiff source (http://web.archive.org/web/20080204051554/http://www.chiff.com/pop-culture/world-music-awards.htm), which is not the source in any of the Wikipedia links I just gave you.

The entry on the figures for CD sales has 3 different sources and none of them are the Chiff one you cited. You should check out the links I gave you at minimum before you argue against them. One is on best selling albums in general (not just MJ) and this is the first time it has been cited here. The other was about when CDs appeared to replace vinyl (not cited before either), and the last was to Thriller itself.

If you are not willing to do some investigation, it's not fair to pass judgment, as I am sure you will agree.

I would like more effort, but from you. The random dude I talked about was the one who put that ranking on wikipedia. The vinyl vs CD one line is sourced in a stupid 2010 japanese manual which doesn't estimate the sales of any particular album, just total market sales by country, and have zero relation with the numbers he throws after, the same numbers we are hearing for years and obviously are vinyl + CD that no association would be stupid enough to separate. RIAA exists since 1952, do you think they were certifying albums and, when CDs were created, they thrown all the numbers away and started to recount old albums from zero?
The Chiff is listed as the "source" of the Thriller part of the American Music Awards wikipedia link you gave (that pretended to prove were million albuns and not million records). The guy writes 104 million copies of the album from ear and lists a source that has 50 million. That's how serious wikipedia is. There's a reason people hadn't dared to use those links here before.

jamba;3762138 said:
Where are you getting this that 40 million copies of Thriller as a single were sold? What is your source?
All Thriller singles together, not the song. My source is logic. The years before the guinness thing Michael people were talking 60 million. All of a sudden it turns 100 million. Guinness people say those were total "records", not actually albums. 100 million records (albums plus singles) minus 60 albums equals 40 singles.
 
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etoile 37;3762420 said:

this is what I was looking for. Sales is almost the same as records. Means everything related to the album, but can be even more overarching, throwing in things like Making Of Thriller and memorabilia. It sounds strange because is a really stupid criterial, but everyone was talking this at the time.
 
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felipemj do tell please, are you a MJ supporter? or a hater disguised by one? I don't see what's the point of all this fighting and arguing. IMO it doesn't matter which is the right number: 60 mill, 100 mill Thriller IS the best selling album of all time, it's a FACT and that's all that matters. So, if you're here only to stir things up you should do that elsewhere, because you're embarrassing Latin American fans, honestly.
 
I'm not supporter or hater of any man in the earth and never use strong words as idol or fan. I'm here because I'm interested in and like Michael Jackson and his art, which I own a lot. I only root for the truth. I'm in a general music forum right now proving Michael Jackson had vitiligo.
If you want to know what matters to the thread, read its title
 
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What does this mean?

All Thriller singles together, not the song. @ felipemj
 
144 said:
i know i'm not the first to say this, but we tend to give these stardom if we post their articles. i'd never be interested in posting them. i know you mean well, Jamba, but this thing doesn't need the publicity. let it write it's blogs in it's poor mom's basement. i would've deleted it before it had a chance to breathe air.

I feel you. But since this is the same author of the article questioning the sales numbers of Thriller, I thought people should know exactly where he is coming from regarding Michael. Personally, I think it sheds light on his extraordinary bias and how it is undiminished three years after Michael's death. In my view, people like this (Randall Sullivan) need to be exposed. But I do appreciate where you are coming from and I agree it is sad to read this. It was published in Salon, the new piece in the New Yorker. These publishers need to hear from people who do not appreciate this kind of "jeernalism" IMO.
 
felipemj;3762444 said:
I'm not supporter or hater of any man in the earth and never use strong words as idol or fan. I'm here because I'm interested in and like Michael Jackson and his art, which I own a lot. I only root for the truth. I'm in a general music forum right now proving Michael Jackson had vitiligo.
If you want to know what matters to the thread, read its title

Wow, bravo and thanks..:ph34r: as far as the title, it says NEW YORKER ARTICLE, it's not something that was brought up by members of this forum. So, in this case this whole thread was put up to discuss an article that claims or doubts Michael did not sell 100 mill copies. As we can see, the pieces written by this "journalist" are all about downplaying Michael and his achievements so no..that's NOT what matters to the thread, what matters is that people like the journalist and yourself can not accept that no matter what number the album is THE biggest selling of all time and that this whole article was written with the sole intention of diminishing Michael's achievements once more. We haven't been tricked, it's a reality.
 
jamba;3762453 said:
What does this mean?

All Thriller singles together, not the song. @ felipemj

Means the seven singles sales combined (you left the impression to understand I was talking only about the Thriller 45 release), what I made clear not to believe matched 40 million.
 
Here is something to make everything clear and everyone happy (I hope).

This is the award ceremony in 2006 in London, where Michael receives the Diamond Award for selling 104 million albums of Thriller. He is introduced by Beyonce, gives a beautiful speech, and then receives the award from the Guinness Records rep. It is also stated here 2x that he has sold 750 million records total.

michael jackson world music awards 2006
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxNsPDqWsKk
 
Bubs;3762167 said:
I need to get back to the Asian numbers, 3 million in Asia is laughable.
Here is a list of Asian countries:
Afghanistan
Armenia
Azerbaijan
Bahrain
Bangladesh
Bhutan
Brunei
Burma
Cambodia
China (PRC)
East Timor
Georgia
Hong Kong
India
Indonesia
Iran
Iraq
Israel
Japan
Jordan
Kazakhstan
North Korea
South Korea
Kuwait
Kyrgyzstan
Laos
Lebanon
Macau
Malaysia
Maldives
Mongolia
Nepal
Oman
Pakistan
Papua New Guinea
Philippines
Qatar
Republic of China (Taiwan)
Russia
Saudi Arabia
Singapore
Sri Lanka
Syria
Tajikistan
Thailand
Turkey
Turkmenistan
United Arab Emirates
Uzbekistan
Vietnam
Yemen

Ok, according Bill Wyman, Thriller sold 3 million between these countries:bugeyed
While I understand there are countries that perhaps are not fans of western music, but the are some countries with huge population, e.g. China, Japan, India and Russia which listen western music. This French guy that BW quotes, has he got the numbers from those countries or are those numbers estimates? There is no chance in hell that Thriller only sold 3 million in Asia. It is possible that they don't get official numbers from some countries but in no way it means that Thriller didn't sell there. By looking the list of those countries, I personally would add another 100 million on top of already sold albums:cheeky:


Btw, in China they allow only certain number of foreign films to be shown/year, This Is It was one of them, so there must be big number of MJ fans too.

Thanks for this. There are many Asian countries that loved Michael, one of them being India. Here is a comment on the Salon hitpiece from an Indian fan:

divakarssathya
FRIDAY, JUN 26, 2009 10:09 AM EDT
Michael Jackson Amar Rahe !

Normal People Scare Me!

Thank Ganesa ! Michael was not!

Any consideration of Michael Jackson's awesome oeuvre has to include his angelic triumph over his brutal childhood.

Clearly, his music was his triumph. A writing in the sky iteration of his love and sanity.

No question, Michael Jackson was one of the sanest human beings of the 20th century.

What about the allegations of child molestation ?

First, I never believed them.

Second, remember they were brought to you by the same wonderful folks who gave you Saddam Hussein's Weapons of Mass Destruction.

Third, the world over children, women and others who are not certified members of the power structure are treated with varying degrees of brutality. Those in power are quickly handed a cloak of invisibility by the media.

A case in point.

How many in India know that the Vatican has paid out close to a hundred million dollars to compensate for victims of child sexual abuse by albeit "a small minority" of priests.

The Indian media has barely reported that story.

Was the Indian media's heinous silence an act of concern for Indian children or a hideously wrongheaded act of appeasement?

The world treated this angel of light the way it treats its children.

We starve them and deny them. We pimp them and brutalize them. We load their futures with the costs of our profligacy. And we kill them. Yet we believe and behave as though we have some special wisdom to impart.

Michael Jackson, there are many in India, who rooted for you since your Jackson Five days.We are shocked and grieve your untimely passing.

But you will always be with us.
 
felipemj;3762376 said:
I never saw a CD single to sell in a store in my life. if you are talking about promos, they are irrelevant to sales

Well, that's weird given the fact that Brazil is a huge market. I've been buying music, including a few singles in Argentina, Paraguay and Chile. :scratch:
 
felipemj;3762376 said:
I never saw a CD single to sell in a store in my life. if you are talking about promos, they are irrelevant to sales

I have not spoken about promos, I said it was common to selling and buying of the singles in Brazil until the 90s, of the "Beat It" for example was not a promo distributed to radios he was sold commercially.
I made clear that things have changed and now are no longer sold but we are talking about an album of the 80s and had singles sold commercially here in Brazil this fact is easily verifiable, this is not what you saw or did not see. If you've never seen does not mean it did not exist as you erroneously stated.
I don't care about your other statements, but about selling singles in Brazil back in the day you are completely wrong and irrationally denying a fact that you may not have lived for some reason.
but you are actually creating a scarecrow. you don't need fallacious arguments you're smarter than that, believe.
 
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Lucilla;3762577 said:
Well, that's weird given the fact that Brazil is a huge market. I've been buying music, including a few singles in Argentina, Paraguay and Chile. :scratch:

in the mid-90s began a heavy piracy here, but before that artists with a large fan base sold well albums, singles, home videos, etc..
 
Sefra and Sue;3762631 said:
in the mid-90s began a heavy piracy here, but before that artists with a large fan base sold well albums, singles, home videos, etc..

There has always been piracy anywhere and EVERYWHERE, but of course I'm talking about the real deal here :D
I'm not aware about what happened in the 80's, I started buying in the 90's :)
 
Jeeze.. seems like some people do not want to pay attention to positive things ( not including those who have posted great replies and informative articles.) Yet seeing that some get so mad that the US sold such and such at a certain era "and that MJ was way more popular outside the states." Yeah When BAD dropped and then Dangerous Yes MJ was Popular over seas. that was the goal I thought. each era was different for everyone. Why do some of you still want to bring the negativity into this about the US. MJ went gobal MJ was LOVED everywhere. no one paid attention to my last post, but I bet some will pay attention to this one. Positivity people.
 
souldreamer7, yes, I agree with the positivity that is needed. Really, this debate dealing with the sales of Thriller does not in any way impact on Michael's greatness or worldwide stature. But it is interesting to me that no matter what evidence is presented, if someone really wants to find fault, they will. I am willing to make an effort to present facts, and this helps me too, but at some point you give up.

I recall a statement by someone who had worked with Michael (LLCoolJ?) who said, to this effect, 'you can put a masterpiece under a microscope and you will find some nicks and scratches. Doesn't mean it's not a masterpiece.'

About the Thriller sales figures (the album), we are dealing with 2 different recording companies--Columbia and later Sony. We are dealing with different forms of the product--vinyl, cassettes, CD's, downloads. And on top of that we are dealing with 30 years of sales worldwide. Myself, I go with the organizations (2 of them) who are the sources for the over 100 million sold figures. I think if anyone wants to question the figures, they need solid evidence, and IMO no one has provided that so far, and IMO they never will b/c it doesn't exist.
 
jamba;3762494 said:
Here is something to make everything clear and everyone happy (I hope).

This is the award ceremony in 2006 in London, where Michael receives the Diamond Award for selling 104 million albums of Thriller. He is introduced by Beyonce, gives a beautiful speech, and then receives the award from the Guinness Records rep. It is also stated here 2x that he has sold 750 million records total.

michael jackson world music awards 2006
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxNsPDqWsKk

The Guinness guy didn't said albums neither his certificate. This can be a misconception by the WMA, a promoting, not researching organization. Michael in 2003 at the PHM said it sold sixty-something... do you believe Thriller sold 40 million during the trial or all the numbers from 82 to 2006 including RIAA certificates were terribly wrong?

Sefra and Sue;3762624 said:
I have not spoken about promos, I said it was common to selling and buying of the singles in Brazil until the 90s, of the "Beat It" for example was not a promo distributed to radios he was sold commercially.
I made clear that things have changed and now are no longer sold but we are talking about an album of the 80s and had singles sold commercially here in Brazil this fact is easily verifiable, this is not what you saw or did not see. If you've never seen does not mean it did not exist as you erroneously stated.
I don't care about your other statements, but about selling singles in Brazil back in the day you are completely wrong and irrationally denying a fact that you may not have lived for some reason.
but you are actually creating a scarecrow. you don't need fallacious arguments you're smarter than that, believe.

I never said weren't sold 45s here. Do you think there were Thriller CD singles being heavely sold in the early 80s when the first Legião Urbana CD to be released was the fourth in 1989. I can be wrong about early 90s singles avaliabiliy tough cause I was born only in 86
 
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Ive too have always second guessed the 104 number... You know not even in the newer World Record books does it mention that number anymore.. While I'd like to sit here and say ya Thriller sold 100+ million copies, it doesnt really add up right.. If you take the previous number in the 60+ mill mark and compare it to the 100 we are looking at about 40 million copies that would have sold since last certified.. That would mean that the album sold faster in the last 10 years up to that point than it did the first 10 years..

Thriller sold 25 million in the first 2 years, and it took another, you subtract that and you add up the rest, the time of sales that it would take to make the 100 mark by the time it was claimed is very hard to believe that
 
the world celebrates halloween every year. There are many factors for Thriller...some that may be escaping some minds at the moment. I know it's hard, but the idea is to think out of your individual space. 100 mill is possible. Otherwise it's like one fan is saying another fan didn't buy the record. Just imagine that one fan is essentially saying you didn't buy the album, although you have a copy.

give it a shot. lol. the world is very very big. and the reality is, no matter what is said..it's easy to forget that.

Don't deny that a fan in a place that is unimaginable to you, is a Michael Jackson fan.

it may take going back to the beginning of this thread, and painstakingly slowly going from the first page to the last, post by post, and look for the fans who you can't imagine, exist, saying positive things toward the 100 mill mark generally and the 40 mill mark, for Thriller, singularly, and them telling you they have a copy, for you to realize it is possible.
 
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144 said:
the world celebrates halloween every year. There are many factors for Thriller...some that may be escaping some minds at the moment. I know it's hard, but the idea is to think out of your individual space. 100 mill is possible. Otherwise it's like one fan is saying another fan didn't buy the record. Just imagine that one fan is essentially saying you didn't buy the album, although you have a copy.

give it a shot. lol. the world is very very big. and the reality is, no matter what is said..it's easy to forget that.

Don't deny that a fan in a place that is unimaginable to you, is a Michael Jackson fan.


it may take going back to the beginning of this thread, and painstakingly slowly going from the first page to the last, post by post, and look for the fans who you can't imagine, exist, saying positive things toward the 100 mill mark generally and the 40 mill mark, for Thriller, singularly, and them telling you they have a copy, for you to realize it is possible.

I totally agree. :yes:
 
The burden of proof lies within the one that claims something and I do believe that the Estate is the one that needs to clarify Michael's sales.

If it was the other way around, that someone would need to proove that an artist didn't sell this many records, well that opens the doors to limitless exagerations. Like Justin Bieber saying he sold 300M. Someone want to proove he didn't?
 
You know not even in the newer World Record books does it mention that number anymore..

What's written in the last edition? Do you have the exact quote?
 
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