Since Mariah and Madonna defeated Elvis...(MJ Related)

[arXter]

Datsy i think the frustration arises with your repeated generalisations that you somehow think you know what the British music-listening public likes/dislikes/buys (remember Prince?)/listens to/know of etc.

it's very illogical.

"you get a big stare if you mention Janet here" - insult to music fans.

 

[PatrickS77]

AW: Re: AW: Since Mariah and Madonna defeated Elvis...(MJ Related)

What countless threads. Why are you so annoyed because I tell my opnion? You are always u in MJ's finacial business and putting him down and I don't get annoyed with you. In fact I am always curteous to you,. Shame you can't manage to separate your personal feelings from a board discussion.

I'm annoyed at you because you always think your opinion is what everyone else thinks! I'm annoyed at you that you always hold above one's head what one posts about! You have no idea what I talk about when it comes to Michael! So don't come in here constantly accusing me of being angry, only talking about Michael's finances and putting him down! I basically just don't see much sense in your usually superficial threads!

Selling 3 000 records is pretty dismal, not even cliff richards has ever done that bad. I do believe MJ fans bought up those records.

I never said, that Janet's career currently is in good shape! But that doesn't change her overall status! And about her being his sister (or vice versa), see my other post!

Datsy i think the frustration arises with your repeated generalisations that you somehow think you know what the British music-listening public likes/dislikes/buys (remember Prince?)/listens to/know of etc.

it's very illogical.

"you get a big stare if you mention Janet here" - insult to music fans.

Exactly!

 

[Datsymay]

Re: AW: Re: AW: Since Mariah and Madonna defeated Elvis...(MJ Related)

I'm annoyed at you because you always think your opinion is what everyone else thinks! I'm annoyed at you that you always hold above one's head what one posts about! You have no idea what I talk about when it comes to Michael! So don't come in here constantly accusing me of being angry, only talking about Michael's finances and putting him down! I basically just don't see much sense in your usually superficial threads!


I never said, that Janet's career currently is in good shape! But that doesn't change her overall status! And about her being his sister (or vice versa), see my other post!


Exactly!

Well you can always use the ignore button. Maybe you are just annoyed because you know what I say is the truth. If you don't live in britain I don't know why you are even in this conversation. I make no claims on knowing Janets staus in America. All I am saying is that her position as a big star is been long diminished here in britain and it shows in her record sales.

 

[arXter]

Re: AW: Re: AW: Since Mariah and Madonna defeated Elvis...(MJ Related)

i live in Britain and very well in tune with the music scene.

All I am saying is that her position as a big star is been long diminished here in britain

if you had said that, i don't think anybody would have argued with you. but your constant attacks and anti-Janet agenda has been no where near as realistic as this statement.

 

[Datsymay]

Re: AW: Re: AW: Since Mariah and Madonna defeated Elvis...(MJ Related)

i live in Britain and very well in tune with the music scene.


if you had said that, i don't think anybody would have argued with you. but your constant attacks and anti-Janet agenda has been no where near as realistic as this statement.

If you had listened to me without prejudice you would have heard what I was saying all along. I have only talked of my experience in britain. I never commented on her position in America.

I have no anti Janet agenda. Why should I. I love all the as a family, I have always said so. Just because I don't give her large ratings as an entertainer doesn't mean that I am anti Janet. I bought her biograph to read it. I don't read more than the first page cause I don't find her interesting as a person. I bought dvd's with her in it cause she was acting in them. I still get bored with her. I did not like her voice in Scream. I hardly knew her then, I just didn't think her voice worked well with MJ's, too weak. I find her character to be boring. I can't help that. I made the effort to like her art, but I don't. I don't like latoya's art either, yet I don't hear anyone saying I have an agenda against latoya. I love Marlon jackson, yet I don't think he is a good singer. He would make a better comedian.
Yes, of all the Jacksons, Janet is probably the character that bores me the most. It's a big family. They can't all be the same. I can't help that. I tried listening to her music and I like a few but I soon switch off. I don't do that with Rebbie.
I don't understand where you people comes out with this hate thing from. People can't even make a commentary about an artist with some comment about hate. it's like you want to say, 'think as me or else'. That is cyber bullying. Grow up.

 

[arXter]

Re: AW: Re: AW: Since Mariah and Madonna defeated Elvis...(MJ Related)

If you had listened to me without prejudice you would have heard what I was saying all along. I have only talked of my experience in britain. I never commented on her position in America.

i never said otherwise. where did i say otherwise? i never said otherwise LOL

I don't understand where you people comes out with this hate thing from. People can't even make a commentary about an artist with some comment about hate. it's like you want to say, 'think as me or else'. That is cyber bullying. Grow up.

i beg to differ - this is called responding to negativity and to statements that resemble facts but are in fact incorrect.

i have nothing personal against you to be "bullying". it's all a response to your public posts.

 

[arXter]

Re: AW: Re: AW: Since Mariah and Madonna defeated Elvis...(MJ Related)

I have no anti Janet agenda.

http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/search.php

type "Janet" under your username. tells a very different story.

Why should I.

i have no idea.

 

[Datsymay]

Re: AW: Re: AW: Since Mariah and Madonna defeated Elvis...(MJ Related)

i never said otherwise. where did i say otherwise? i never said otherwise LOL

i beg to differ - this is called responding to negativity and to statements that resemble facts but are in fact incorrect.

i have nothing personal against you to be "bullying". it's all a response to your public posts.

You should take my public post so personal to the extent that you accuse me of things. If I hated Janet I wouldn't speak about her. I make an assessment of her music cause she is a public figure and an artist. I do the same with all other artist. I don't think Madonna can siong either, but I bought her evita video. I don't like Mariah cause she screams topo much.
More comments is made on Janet because more threads are made on her, but you will see me make threads on the other Jacksons too. Janet should be big enough to take criticisms without her fans jumping to her defence all the time. I don't even do that for Michael. I do not defend Michael where he doesn't need defending. His music stands alone. So what if I think Janet can't sing, that is my opnion. You don't have to listen to me.

 

[arXter]

Re: AW: Re: AW: Since Mariah and Madonna defeated Elvis...(MJ Related)

So what if I think Janet can't sing, that is my opnion. You don't have to listen to me.

you know very well i'd have no problem with that - in fact, i agree with that assessment to some extent because i don't think she has a great voice either.

and you know very well what i've always debated against - the "facts" you make about Britain's music-listening public.

 

[arXter]

Re: AW: Re: AW: Since Mariah and Madonna defeated Elvis...(MJ Related)

If I hated Janet I wouldn't speak about her.

i never said hate. i said agenda, i said "anti-Janet" because just about every post you make about her is negative.

 

[Datsymay]

Re: AW: Re: AW: Since Mariah and Madonna defeated Elvis...(MJ Related)

i never said hate. i said agenda, i said "anti-Janet" because just about every post you make about her is negative.

Was my post defending her right to bare her body if she wants to negative too? Was my post about how beautiful she was and how she reminds me of Elizabeth Taylor negative too, Was my post defending her during the nipplegate negative too, or did you miss those posts on purpose?
How about my most recent post declaring that I believe what David said about MJ frustrating Janet during her search for manger, was that a negaative janet post too. I consider a post to be negative when it deliberately seeks to misinform. I have ever done that in any posts I make on this board. I have always been honest even when it comes to MJ.

 

[arXter]

i said just about - and i'm correct if you look at the post history. but that's not the point - you can be negative about anything you like i certainly have no problem with it. i'm always negative about the current state of affaris of mainstream music.

my only replies to you concern the baseless "facts" you put up. i reply to it and put it straight. i'm not in any way trying to convince you of my opinion that her music has been great at a couple of periods - because that's the only think i like about Janet to be honest LOL i'm not even an avid fan.

but anyway, i regret this being taken to length in such off-topic manner. however, my replies were necessary as to debunk the notion that Britons have no idea who Janet is ("get a stare").

 

[Datsymay]

i said just about - and i'm correct if you look at the post history. but that's not the point - you can be negative about anything you like i certainly have no problem with it. i'm always negative about the current state of affaris of mainstream music.

my only replies to you concern the baseless "facts" you put up. i reply to it and put it straight. i'm not in any way trying to convince you of my opinion that her music has been great at a couple of periods - because that's the only think i like about Janet to be honest LOL i'm not even an avid fan.

but anyway, i regret this being taken to length in such off-topic manner. however, my replies were necessary as to debunk the notion that Britons have no idea who Janet is ("get a stare").

Janet was great at one point in Britain. I have never denied that. I remember her videos, but the jacksons were also riding high at the time. 3T was big here too. my argument has been that she has fallen off the radar and the present music buying public are not buying her music and young people are not interested in her music. I was right about the record buying public. It happens to many musicians in the past. Even Prince had that problem at one point until he came back with his concerts. I don't know what is negative about that.

 

[arXter]

Janet was great at one point in Britain. I have never denied that.

i know..

I remember her videos, but the jacksons were also riding high at the time. 3T was big here too.

yep..

my argument has been that she has fallen off the radar

definitely

and the present music buying public are not buying her music

yep, not buying her current music - i agree.

and young people are not interested in her music.

BOOM lol.. this is what i'm talking about! these are the generalisations that are based on absolutely nothing anywhere near substantial. "her music" spans more than two decades and if you're suggesting that our music-aware youth do not respect the success (musical and materialistic) of Rhythm Nation, TVR etc. then that's quite an insult to our nation's musical intelligence. but most importantly, it's the baseless nature that i'm arguing about.

 

[Datsymay]

i know..


BOOM lol.. this is what i'm talking about! these are the generalisations that are based on absolutely nothing anywhere near substantial. "her music" spans more than two decades and if you're suggesting that our music-aware youth do not respect the success (musical and materialistic) of Rhythm Nation, TVR etc. then that's quite an insult to our nation's musical intelligence. but most importantly, it's the baseless nature that i'm arguing about.

What you needed to do was show evidence to conteract my argument. Instead of claiming that my argument was baseless. It is'nt baseless. It is based on my observation with the record buying public which includes members of my own family and the young people I deal with in daily life. I have never had one child bring a janet record to school for a party. I have never seen her represented in a survey of school kids favourite cd's. That is what I used as my analysis. Furthermore we have the recent charts to go by. her album was a disaster in the charts.

 

[arXter]

What you needed to do was show evidence to conteract my argument.

not at all because i'm not the one claiming on such generalisations.

Instead of claiming that my argument was baseless. It is'nt baseless. It is based on my observation with the record buying public which includes members of my own family and the young people I deal with in daily life.

how young are these people? and how big a group? but most importantly, how young?

I have never had one child bring a janet record to school for a party. I have never seen her represented in a survey of school kids favourite cd's. That is what I used as my analysis. Furthermore we have the recent charts to go by. her album was a disaster in the charts.

they're not supposed to. children are not supposed to listen to Janet's music. that''s not her audience. and they do not constitute our "youth" - certainly not our musically mature youth.

you should change your wording to "children do not listen to Janet's music".

 

[Datsymay]

Only 4 thousand of the record buying public bought her record time. Shame her music wasn't for kids. maybe more parents might have bought it. Perhaps they didn't want their kids to hear them listening to Janet. Then that is her own fault. I would not buy anyones music if I couldn't listen to it around kids.

 

[arXter]

good, so we agree that your "youth" comment is baseless since when you said youth you actually meant children. i hope you understand my frustration at your comments. again, nothing personal. and i stick to what i said last time about your posts in general - enjoy reading many of them

.

 

[Datsymay]

good, so we agree that your "youth" comment is baseless since when you said youth you actually meant children. i hope you understand my frustration at your comments. again, nothing personal. and i stick to what i said last time about your posts in general - enjoy reading many of them

.

How is my comment baseless. If the children are not interested in your music they are not going to get into it as adults. The young people that I asked about Janet are in their late teens and early twenties. They are my nieces and nephews that buy music al;l the time. They come to my home and listen to Invincible and MJ's earlier J5 stuff. I am always losing my mj music to them.
They are into Britney, Mariah, Rihana, Beyonce ,my sisters are grown adults with children and they are Beyonce fans. They do not listen to Janet. They love Whitney and many more female divas. No mention of Janet. That is the point I am trying to make. I don't know why you want to bash my own personal observation as baseless. I have never called your opinion baseless. The sales of the record backs me up.

 

[arXter]

How is my comment baseless.

because you meant children, not youth.

If the children are not interested in your music they are not going to get into it as adults.

another baseless comment. do you really believe that? that doesn't even apply to an adult's lifetime.

The young people that I asked about Janet are in their late teens and early twenties. They are my nieces and nephews that buy music al;l the time.

a sample less than four digits is not good to base on a whole population.

The sales of the record backs me up.

current sales of an album that isn't successful does not diminish an artist's lifetime of work.

 

[Datsymay]

This discussion is BASELESS. Over and out.

 

[PatrickS77]

AW: Since Mariah and Madonna defeated Elvis...(MJ Related)

Well you can always use the ignore button. Maybe you are just annoyed because you know what I say is the truth. If you don't live in britain I don't know why you are even in this conversation. I make no claims on knowing Janets staus in America. All I am saying is that her position as a big star is been long diminished here in britain and it shows in her record sales.

No, I'm annoyed, because I know what you say is bullshit, but still you keep insisting on this crap! I don't live in America! I live in Europe and I'm in Britain quite frequently... I have family in London and know a lot of british Janet fans... few of them are actually Michael fans... in general, few of the Janet fans I know are MJ fans!

And record sales do not really prove anything! One of Paul McCartney's recent albums also did shockingly bad, but that still doesn't mean that nobody like's him anymore or that he is no legend anymore! There are quite few acts who don't really sell much these days... like the Stones (also Mick Jagger's solo album) for example! But still that doesn't diminish their place in music history!

 

[LovelyOne]

Michael Jackson has 18 Billboard Number Ones on Billboard

#1 I want you back
#1 The love you save
#1 ABC
#1 Ill be there
#1 Ben
#1 Don’t stop till you get enough
#1 Rock with you
#1 Billie Jean
#1 Beat it
#1 Say say say
#1 We are the world
#1 I just cant stop loving you
#1 Bad
#1 The way you make me feel
#1 Man in the mirror
#1 Dirty Diana
#1 Black or white
#1 You are not alone


Notes:

If you minus the group efforts then yes MJ only has 13 number one hits, however the Beatles were a group and their 20 number ones still count so I guess we should include J5 number ones. Making 17 number ones for MJ..

Many wont count We are the world but as MJ was so instrumental in the entire song especially as he had already conceived the vocals on a solo version (see demo the ultimate collection) I think it is safe to say that this is as an MJ number one…..GIVING US A GRAND TOTAL OF 18 number ones…….same as miss Mariah Carey………so there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

However even though I am a die hard MJ fan for life I have to admit without any doubt in my mind, Mariah is the queen of the Billboard charts…her 18 number ones have come since 1990..ie only 18 years ago!!!!!!!!!!!!! In that time MJ has only had two number ones…..

I accept that MJ hasn’t released as many albums or singles as Mariah etc in the last 18 years….but SO WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That’s not Mariah’s fault…..so lets give credit were credits due...!!!..


If you don’t produce work in a certain geographical area or PROMOTE IT ( ie invincible had so much potential its almost criminal that tracks like YRMW, Butterflies, Whatever happens were not released for sale instead only to radio…these tracks had number ones written all over them.. and lets not forget Earth song…why was that never released...dont get me started ….!!!) then expect your records or sales to be caught up…like Mariah has…..

What gets me is that if MJ or Sony had done their homework properly MJ would easily have surpasses the record held by the Beatles…”20 number ones”

Any way a further note….

This is the biggest year in the history of billboard charts for album releases. All the big sellers are making a return and some new hotter stars…. so by December the questions will be asked “who is the real king/queen” the following artists release their albums

Mariah Carey (biggest selling female artist of all time)
Madonna
Whitney Houston (returning after 10 years.. wow)
Celine Dion (one of the biggest selling female artist behind Mariah)
Usher (biggest 1st week album sales by a solo artist in billboard chart history over 1.5 million in first week of his last album confessions!!!!)
Neyo
Akon
Coldplay
Michael Jackson (King of pop..simple and true)

...and there are some others which i am forgetting right now....damn....


So who will win?…find out year end billboard….December 2008

I understand that to us fans these things don’t matter ..MJ will always be King and Thriller will never be surpassed …but my argument is from a consumer and purely sales point of view…2008/2009….

I don’t think MJ has a choice…..he has to kick ass….on billboard.....even if it is for one last time…..not for the fans…but to prove to the industry…and critics….just one last time…..

I wait in hope ..and faith…

Goodluck MJ

Mariah might be the "Queen of the billboard charts", but at least Michael writes most of his own songs.

That girl has money just pay people to make her songs for her and all she has to do is scream and belch into the microphone.

lol, seriously--she does have a great voice and I definitely love some of her classic hits.

 

[Cinnamon234]

Actually no. Mariah writes all her songs and produces them too I believe. She's written more of her "hit" songs than Mike has. I'm not even a huge fan of hers, but one thing that has always seperated Mariah from the rest of the "diva's" is that she actually writes her stuff.

 

[KOPV]

Mariah has accomplished a lot..

I don't understand why people would try to deny it or be-little her accomplishments..

She dominated the Billboard charts/She has won the most WMA's/name the female artist of the millenium... and the list goes on..

Compared to MJ.. yes she is much LESS sucessfull..

But it's hard to compare ANYONE to Michael..

It does not make her LESS of an iconic figure because she did not touch EVERYTHING MJ DID..

Mariah has done great for herself over the years.. Though I feel like in SOME ways she had moments where I felt like she was a sell out.. Not being true to herself to make 'modern' music.. But she has stayed more current than any other artist I can think of..