Reviews Of Man In the Music By Those Who Bought And Read the Book

I saw this book today in Waterstones and had a good browse of it. It was refreshing to see a book on the shelves about his art, but having read a few chapters it's pretty obvious that any hardcore fan who's followed his career for some time would be able to write a book like this. It might serve as a good read for a casual fan or someone who is new to Michael's work, but the book offers little else of substance for the veteran MJ fan.

Also, I'm not sure if the author frequents MJ message boards, but I recognised a few of the critical analysis parts in the book which suspiciously resembled exact phrases I've used in the past when discussing MJ's music on this very site.

Wow Matty. I read your review On Amazon and I cant belive you are accusing Joe vogel of plagerising you in your comments there. Just becuase in his research he may have come up with the same information many of us fans already have doesnt mean he plagerised anyone. He put a lot of work and research into the book. Im sure he researched everywhere even fan boards. Also To say any fan could have easlity written that book is not true. He has a way of writing and explaining the art like no one else. Plus after all these years NOT one person or fan has chosen to write such an in depth book about Michael Music. You make these Bold claims after just browsing throug the book in a book store and not even reading it. I really would like to see some of your work in this area? Specifically what you feel Mr Vogel plagerised off from you.
 
Wow Matty. I read your review On Amazon and I cant belive you are accusing Joe vogel of plagerising you in your comments there. Just becuase in his research he may have come up with the same information many of us fans already have doesnt mean he plagerised anyone. He put a lot of work and research into the book. Im sure he researched everywhere even fan boards. Also To say any fan could have easlity written that book is not true. He has a way of writing and explaining the art like no one else. Plus after all these years NOT one person or fan has chosen to write such an in depth book about Michael Music. You make these Bold claims after just browsing throug the book in a book store and not even reading it. I really would like to see some of your work in this area? Specifically what you feel Mr Vogel plagerised off from you.

I spent a good hour reading through the book in Waterstones yesterday, and I was surprised to see various quotes I recognised from MJ forums.

I am also not the only fan to suspect that he has lifted heavily from MJ message boards for this book. I read another reviewer on Amazon say the exact same thing.
 
Last edited:
I saw this book today in Waterstones and had a good browse of it. It was refreshing to see a book on the shelves about his art, but having read a few chapters it's pretty obvious that any hardcore fan who's followed his career for some time would be able to write a book like this. It might serve as a good read for a casual fan or someone who is new to Michael's work, but the book offers little else of substance for the veteran MJ fan.

Also, I'm not sure if the author frequents MJ message boards, but I recognised a few of the critical analysis parts in the book which suspiciously resembled exact phrases I've used in the past when discussing MJ's music on this very site.

I will only comment on the bolded part. I do agree with you. Even though i have been promoting the book for months.

I think he could have gone much deeper into the stories, instead of giving us an overview. But i think this is perfect for the public & casual fans. I myself learned a lot, but i wanted more. Maybe, he will go further with the next book.

Another great thing about the book are the many references to original reviews.

It's the first book of its kind, so i am very thankful to Vogel for giving us a smart alternative to the exploitative junk being sold by MJ's "friends" & "family"
 
Last edited:
I will only comment on the bolded part. I do agree with you. Even though i have been promoting the book for months.

I think he could have gone much deeper into the stories, instead of giving us an overview. But i think this is perfect for the public & casual fans. I myself learned a lot, but i wanted more. Maybe, he will go further with the next book.

Another great thing about the book are the many references to original reviews.

At the end of the day, any fan can write a book reviewing the albums track-by-track. This book would be so much more interesting if it had proper contributions from the many engineers, musicians, producers and songwriters MJ actually worked with. I'm guessing the author didn't have access to the likes of Quincy, Rod Temperton, Bill Bottrell, Rodney Jerkins, Teddy Riley, Glen Ballard, Bruce Swedien, Jam&Lewis, Dr Freeze etc, so he just reviewed the songs and added well-documented tidbits here and there.
 
At the end of the day, any fan can write a book reviewing the albums track-by-track. This book would be so much more interesting if it had proper contributions from the many engineers, musicians, producers and songwriters MJ actually worked with. I'm guessing the author didn't have access to the likes of Quincy, Rod Temperton, Bill Bottrell, Rodney Jerkins, Teddy Riley, Glen Ballard, Bruce Swedien, Jam&Lewis, Dr Freeze etc, so he just reviewed the songs and added well-documented tidbits here and there.

But Vogel is a fan... he did exactly that.


For sure, it would have been better had he interviewed these people, but we don't know if he tried contacting them but wasn't successful.
 
^^ I thought he interviewed people who worked with MJ. Did he?
 
^^ I thought he interviewed people who worked with MJ. Did he?

Most of the quotes I read were lifted from interviews conducted by others, not Joe Vogel himself. I recognised the majority of the quotes.
 
aCusing someone of plagiarism is a very serious thing. if someone here bleives that Vogel plagiarised something that htey had official released and copiriegted, then they should sue him. But keep in mind that lots of people can make have the same thoughts about one thing.Plus to say that someone is a plagiarist just because tow sentences in a 300+ pages books of his are similar to something that you said in internet, is a bit ridiculus. Additionaly, if you think that you can write a better book than Joe Vogel did, by all means go ahead and do it. Making claims on internet is very easy.Lets see actions in real life.
 
aCusing someone of plagiarism is a very serious thing. if someone here bleives that Vogel plagiarised something that htey had official released and copiriegted, then they should sue him. But keep in mind that lots of people can make have the same thoughts about one thing.Plus to say that someone is a plagiarist just because tow sentences in a 300+ pages books of his are similar to something that you said in internet, is a bit ridiculus. Additionaly, if you think that you can write a better book than Joe Vogel did, by all means go ahead and do it. Making claims on internet is very easy.Lets see actions in real life.

I haven't read the entire 300 page book, but found two word-for-word similarities amongst the pages I did read. I have not accused anyone of plagiarism, it's just that some similarities struck me as I glanced through it and I wondered how much of his research was done first-hand, and how much was from second hand online sources.
 
Last edited:
lmt4mj Lauren Trainor
@joevogel1 visit to Spike's film class turns out, OK? Wish I could be there.
14 Dec
in reply to ?

@JoeVogel1
Joe Vogel
@lmt4mj I had a great time. We discussed Black or White, TDCAU, SIM, and Earth Song
16 Dec via web
 
I got it for Christmas at last, I read until the first chapter, I'm gonna keep reading today. I know I've just started, but I'm loving the book and I gotta say this book is highly recommendable.
 
But Vogel is a fan... he did exactly that.


For sure, it would have been better had he interviewed these people, but we don't know if he tried contacting them but wasn't successful.

See, I wished people would STOP doing this.
Perhaps it's the FANS who haven't read this fanboard. Vogel spoke to this very issue here on MJJC. Probably not to the 100000xth degree, but hey, who cares. It's the internet. Let's shoot first, and ask questions later.
 
Last edited:
Received these books as Christmas gifts. Very happy about that. Will happily review later.

Christmas201166.jpg


Sorry for the two posts after one another. Couldn't be avoided.
 
Last edited:
I'm currently on Chapter 7 and I'm gonna try to finish reading it today.
 
http://www.forbes.com/sites/zackomalleygreenburg/2012/01/13/michael-jackson-man-in-the-music/
ManInTheMusic-245x300.jpg



It’s not often that I write about books in this column–FORBES does have the excellent blog, “Booked,” for that–but every now and then something I read has so much to do with the topics I regularly cover on this beat that I’m compelled to type up some thoughts.


One such book is Joe Vogel’s terrific Man In The Music (Sterling, 2011), which explores the life and work of Michael Jackson. The King of Pop, of course, is a frequent subject for me–I started writing about him on the day of his death and quickly became fascinated with his vastly-underrated business savvy. That’s been underscored in recent years by his posthumous financial success, boosted heavily by his estate’s shrewd deal-making, all of which I’ve covered extensively for FORBES.


Jackson has pulled in half a billion dollars since his death, and regularly tops our annual accounting of the top-earning dead celebrities. For that matter, he out-earned every living artist in 2010 and bested all but U2 this year; another nine-figure annual total seems likely with the success of the Michael Jackson Immortal World Tour, a joint venture between the estate and Cirque du Soleil that placed Jackson back atop Pollstar’s touring charts in December.


Man In The Music puts the reader right there in the studio with Jackson, shedding some much-needed light on a mysterious and misunderstood man. Though it focuses primarily on Jackson’s sonic legacy, offering song-by-song analysis of each album, a full understanding of Jackson’s music brings his financial success into clearer perspective.


For instance, we learn that Jackson was an extremely efficient in the studio (at least earlier in his career), coming in with all his songs immaculately prepared and ready to record–a “producer’s dream.”


We’re treated to anecdotes from producer Quincy Jones, longtime sound engineer Bruce Swedien and other collaborators including Rod Temperton, Greg Philinganes, Brad Buxer and Bill Bottrell. These serve to show just how much effort Jackson and his team put into making music composed of sounds the ear had never before heard, especially in some of his later (and under-appreciated) work, like the 1995 album HIStory.


Vogel also reminds his audience of Jackson’s immense commercial ambitions. After his strong solo debut Off the Wall, he told his producers that he wanted his follow-up to be the best-selling album of all time. They laughed. And then Jackson released Thriller, which quickly fulfilled his prophesy. After that, his stated goal was for his next album to sell 100 million units. Though Bad has sold “only” an estimated 35 million copies worldwide, Thriller has surpassed 110 million.


Jackson’s heavily-publicized trials and tribulations are mrntioned throughout the book, but they’re clearly not its focus. If anything, Vogel makes the case that these events so deeply colored the perception of Jackson that his later work was never judged objectively.


Man in the Music is definitely worth a read–and don’t be surprised if it makes you go back and listen to “Stranger in Moscow” with a whole new outlook on The King of Pop.
 
It`s also interesting to read the comments and the responses from Zack. It seems he thinks about writing a book about MJ-buisness.
 
It`s also interesting to read the comments and the responses from Zack. It seems he thinks about writing a book about MJ-buisness.

That would be awesome. I only wish Frank Dileo could contribute...
 
Karen Faye tweets:


TwitLonger — When you talk too much for Twitter
I know. It is a personal dilemma I intellectually wrestle with myself. MJ was such a complicated and multifaceted person...Is is fair to be incorrect? To write something that is not accurate, and the world to interpret it as truth? I find many errors in what others have written. RT @JoeVogel1: @wingheart Still, in spite of limitations, I feel it's important that MJ the artist/historical figure be documented and explored in print
TwitLonger — When you talk too much for Twitter
:) I know...many do. And I have offers $$$ to share. I just can not personally justify it. To understand the "light" you must also understand the "dark". I do not wish to decide what he would want to reveal about his life, without him being here to allow me. RT @JoeVogel1: @wingheart I personally would be fascinated to hear your piece of the puzzle
TwitLonger — When you talk too much for Twitter
Don't you think he communicated this is his music? If he wanted to share more...he could have. RT @JoeVogel1: @wingheart some books that at least take him seriously and explore his complexity, humanity and creativity.
TwitLonger — When you talk too much for Twitter
Thanks Joe. I do respect everyone else's choices also...to write, read, create tributes, release new albums, etc. My "peace of mind" is a high priority for me. It's worth more than money. RT @JoeVogel1: @wingheart That being said, I completely understand and respect your choice.
TwitLonger — When you talk too much for Twitter
There is an archive of films and videos he kept. Hopefully his children will be the ones who will tell his/story with the "real" documentation. I pray the estate will be honorable...and give that archive to them and not Sony. RT @JoeVogel1: @wingheart MJ loved to read about his artistic heroes: Chaplin, Michelangelo, etc. He wanted to be documented in the same way
TwitLonger — When you talk too much for Twitter
Understanding the artistic process is indeed an interesting endeavor. But how much do we NEED to know, about his personal life? RT @JoeVogel1: @wingheart Teaching and writing about great art/artists is my passion, so I guess I see it as much more than a "reality show"
 
https://twitter.com/#!/joevogel1
JoeVogel1 Joe Vogel
@wingheart Certainly it can and often does devolve into that with "celebrities," but it doesn't have to
7 hours ago Favorite Retweet Reply


JoeVogel1 Joe Vogel
@wingheart Teaching and writing about great art/artists is my passion, so I guess I see it as much more than a "reality show"
7 hours ago


JoeVogel1 Joe Vogel
@wingheart But I do feel, more generally, MJ's life and legacy need to be documented and explored in print from multiple sources/angles
8 hours ago


JoeVogel1 Joe Vogel
@wingheart Rightfully so (about your own "peace of mind"). Also speaks volumes that money hasn't been a motive for you.
8 hours ago


JoeVogel1 Joe Vogel
@wingheart MJ loved to read about his artistic heroes: Chaplin, Michelangelo, etc. He wanted to be documented in the same way
8 hours ago


JoeVogel1 Joe Vogel
@wingheart Dylan, Lennon, Rolling Stones, etc. and practically nothing but tabloid fodder on him
8 hours ago


JoeVogel1 Joe Vogel
@wingheart I absolutely do. But I also know how frustrated MJ was that he walked into a bookstore and there were dozens of serious books on
8 hours ago


JoeVogel1 Joe Vogel
@wingheart That being said, I completely understand and respect your choice.
8 hours ago


JoeVogel1 Joe Vogel
@wingheart some books that at least take him seriously and explore his complexity, humanity and creativity.
8 hours ago


JoeVogel1 Joe Vogel
@wingheart The best anyone can do, I suppose, is strive for honesty, nuance and integrity. Nothing can be perfect, but MJ deserves...
8 hours ago


JoeVogel1 Joe Vogel
@wingheart I personally would be fascinated to hear your piece of the puzzle
8 hours ago


JoeVogel1 Joe Vogel
@wingheart Otherwise, people go to bookstores and libraries to learn about him and find Diane Dimond, etc.
8 hours ago


JoeVogel1 Joe Vogel
@wingheart Still, in spite of limitations, I feel it's important that MJ the artist/historical figure be documented and explored in print
8 hours ago


JoeVogel1 Joe Vogel
@wingheart Very interesting, Karen, especially about his desire for input. Would've loved to interview him for my book
8 hours ago
 
"This book would be so much more interesting if it had proper contributions from the many engineers, musicians, producers and songwriters MJ actually worked with. I'm guessing the author didn't have access to the likes of Quincy, Rod Temperton, Bill Bottrell, Rodney Jerkins, Teddy Riley, Glen Ballard, Bruce Swedien, Jam&Lewis, Dr Freeze etc, so he just reviewed the songs and added well-documented tidbits here and there."

Sorry, I don't mean to step anyones toes (newbie here:)) but I would like to mention that author did have access
to most of the people mentioned above. In the book there is Notes at the end of the book, and Joe mentions every board where he visited and got info as well as the people he personally interviewed.
He visited in Gearslutz forum (mentioned in the Notes) "Post here if you worked in Michael Jackson Dangerous album" board in which most of the people mentioned above have posted their memories and interactions with Michael.
I myself read Dangerous board from start to last post (such a treasure) so it is no surprise that Joe found his way there, he is quoting some of the posts in his book, but he does mention these in the Notes as well as other posts he might have quoted in his book.
I would not go to blame author for plagiarism before reading the whole book, especially Notes and acknowledgments at the end of the book.

I do not mean to offend anyone but I felt I need to clarify out this for Joe Vogel as I really liked his book and Michael deserves many books like Joe's.
 
I like this book and I am glad to have it. It's also good for people who are not fans and can see Michael's work after Thriller. There was so much more he did than Thriller. It's positive and might give new appreciation to his work and focus attention on his work that was ignored or not appreciated enough.
 
Back
Top