Raymone Bain Sues MJ Estate

[ivy]

Ivy, it was recently reported that the estate administrators negotiated lower interest rate on the loans. So, I don't know how up to date the Wall street report was.

the report is done during the time of the new sony distribution deal and yes they also mention the new refinance deal - in other words the lower interest rates.

I'm sure that the estate is managing the debt, getting better financing deals and lowering interest rates and paying the debt as the money comes in. My point was that all of the debt is not paid, it's still a work in progress (that would probably take 2-3 more years).

 

[Dangerous Incorporated]

I find it interesting the Branca could get the $3M insurance before there was even a cause of death but paying of some debts (and not all claims will be paid) is taking time. The estate has no issues getting money for the estate but has a hard time spending some it.

 

[Memefan]

the report is done during the time of the new sony distribution deal and yes they also mention the new refinance deal - in other words the lower interest rates.

I'm sure that the estate is managing the debt, getting better financing deals and lowering interest rates and paying the debt as the money comes in. My point was that all of the debt is not paid, it's still a work in progress (that would probably take 2-3 more years).

Ok.

I fully agree with you about the debt. Still a lot to be done...but I really think they will get the job done. Branca seems to be a bit competitive, because in his 2 interviews (both with AP), he kept saying MJ's estate gonna be bigger than Elvis'. He listed the reasons he think that.

So, I take it is his wish (or a personal challenge or objective he set out) to grow this thing as much as financially possible.

It is fair to say the probate judge has been really impressed with what they have done so far...same for the ad litem lawyer and Streisand.

I find it interesting the Branca could get the $3M insurance before there was even a cause of death but paying of some debts (and not all claims will be paid) is taking time. The estate has no issues getting money for the estate but has a hard time spending some it.

When was the insurance claim filed? Source if possible, please.

 

[Annie123]

I find it interesting the Branca could get the $3M insurance before there was even a cause of death but paying of some debts (and not all claims will be paid) is taking time. The estate has no issues getting money for the estate but has a hard time spending some it.

A lot of debts have very specific payment terms and penalties attached if you do not pay according to the terms. In that case it may not be in the estate's interest to pay off the debt immediately. They are renegotiating the financing terms, as mentioned by Ivy.

 

[ginvid]

I remember reading that MJ was getting 75 mil per year just from his catalogues and not doing anything.

"The Fortress loans were coming due yet again at the end of December 2007. Barclays refinanced the $300 million loan against Sony/ATV from Fortress. HSBC (HBC) lent $30 million against MiJac. Plainfield Asset Management, a hedge fund, loaned another $40 million against MiJac at a 16% interest rate on terms that allowed Jackson to defer payments while the amount due grew."

Was the 16% interest just for the one loan or for all of his loans? it is possible they did not have the same interest rate, thereby 64/yr would not go to just playing interest.

Also after his death MJ sold an enormous amount of music. That has to be taken into account when determining what has been paid off. That would be a good chunk of money as well.

 

[bgz]

Trying to remain open and neutral to both sides of the discussion. There are those that are extremely suspicious of Branca and co., and then those that are highly favorable.

I personally tend to think Branca and the current team are doing everything to enhance Michael's estate, and of course to some extent their own interests, but understandably so. People in this business do it for free?

Can anyone please give me something to work with as far as alternatives go? Who and how should this be handled differently for Michael's benefit in the long run if not with Branca etal? Who has the experience without having an equal stake in the game?

What information is available for us industry outsiders that would point to a better "team", better "vision" to maximally benefit Michael's legacy? I seriously would like to hear other options/ideas/people to better suit and sustain Michael's musical legacy.

Complain, criticize, whatever, all anyone wants. Give me something to chew on with realistic ALTERNATIVES and I'll listen.

 

[Memefan]

Trying to remain open and neutral to both sides of the discussion. There are those that are extremely suspicious of Branca and co., and then those that are highly favorable.

I personally tend to think Branca and the current team are doing everything to enhance Michael's estate, and of course to some extent their own interests, but understandably so. People in this business do it for free?

Can anyone please give me something to work with as far as alternatives go? Who and how should this be handled differently for Michael's benefit in the long run if not with Branca etal? Who has the experience without having an equal stake in the game?

What information is available for us industry outsiders that would point to a better "team", better "vision" to maximally benefit Michael's legacy? I seriously would like to hear other options/ideas/people to better suit and sustain Michael's musical legacy.

Complain, criticize, whatever, all anyone wants. Give me something to chew on with realistic ALTERNATIVES and I'll listen.

Great question.

Whoever is put in control of the estate will have a stake. That stake is the incentive for them to grow the estate. They grow the estate, they get paid...if they dont, well they won't receive any compensation. That is a very fair deal...and that is the way most big & important estates work. And this is nothing new.

what about Ron Burkle the billionaire who used to counsel MJ during the 2005 trial when Randy Jackson and his buddies wanted to cut MJ's "head off" (MJ's words) for not selling his half of the catalogue?

Keep in mind, the family is very bitter because MJ kept them out of the will, so even if Steve Jobs & Bill Gates were put in charge, they would still groan. That is a fact.

I know who I don't want in control...

 

[Dangerous Incorporated]

People in this business do it for free?

The Trust determines how much Estate Ex. get paid. Nobody expects them to do it for free. But when they start getting cuts from all the deals ($12.5M each for latest Sony deal + many other examples), then that is what is against California Probate Code Section 9657:

The personal representative shall not make profit by the
increase, nor suffer loss by the decrease or destruction without his
or her fault, of any part of the estate.

http://law.onecle.com/california/probate/9657.html

When was the insurance claim filed? Source if possible, please.

Jackson Honchos Score $3 Mil

Originally posted Aug 7th 2009 10:30 PM PDT by TMZ Staff
The special administrators of Michael Jackson's estate scored a big one -- reeling in $3 million from the company that issued a life insurance policy to M.J.

John Branca (above) and John McClain quietly cashed in the policy -- reports it was worth upwards of $20 million are simply not true. It was a $3 million payout. And here's why it was a swift move -- the coroner hasn't even released the autopsy report yet.

Some life insurance companies are hinky about paying out proceeds until the cause of death is known. Remember Heath Ledger's death, when the life insurance company wouldn't promptly fork over the $10 million because Heath allegedly lied about drug use on the application?

Somehow Branca and McClain convinced the insurance company to ante up with lightening speed -- and the estate is $3 million richer for it.

http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/08/jackson-honchos-score-3-mil/8/

 

[144000]

The Trust determines how much Estate Ex. get paid. Nobody expects them to do it for free. But when they start getting cuts from all the deals ($12.5M each for latest Sony deal + many other examples), then that is what is against California Probate Code Section 9657:

http://law.onecle.com/california/probate/9657.html



Jackson Honchos Score $3 Mil

Originally posted Aug 7th 2009 10:30 PM PDT by TMZ Staff
The special administrators of Michael Jackson's estate scored a big one -- reeling in $3 million from the company that issued a life insurance policy to M.J.

John Branca (above) and John McClain quietly cashed in the policy -- reports it was worth upwards of $20 million are simply not true. It was a $3 million payout. And here's why it was a swift move -- the coroner hasn't even released the autopsy report yet.

Some life insurance companies are hinky about paying out proceeds until the cause of death is known. Remember Heath Ledger's death, when the life insurance company wouldn't promptly fork over the $10 million because Heath allegedly lied about drug use on the application?

Somehow Branca and McClain convinced the insurance company to ante up with lightening speed -- and the estate is $3 million richer for it.

http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/08/jackson-honchos-score-3-mil/8/

i don't care how much a person thinks they deserve it, and how much they are sitting on a gold mine, as they are with Michael's estate, and how society has changed over the years, if a person seeks to deceive, they are the only one who will lose in the end(they can't hurt Michael). that rule never changes. i don't care if they use the excuse that they got the estate richer. you'd think that they were used to working with successful acts, and had no need to sweeten things, in a deceptive way.

 

[Moonwalker.Fan]

Again, it seems some people are "total experts" for everything, and they do know the things better than all the lawyers and businessmen in MJs business matters, better than Michael knew himself.

Its really dangerous for all MJs fans to be manipulated by the other fans presenting some particular info about something they dont know anything relevant about.

Its the same manipulation as Tom Sneddon and Diane Dimond tried to persuade the world about Michael.
Everything seems to fit together, but the reality is quite different.

Demonizing people like Branca and McClain is totally unacceptable without the facts required as evidence, because here there are articles presented from TMZ and co., some acts and laws and their sections as - fact that this is the evidence that the "conspiracy" or confidence trick is real and obvious, like its has to be like this....

So fans are those who will determine the factors ... who conspires against Michael? just because of some articles and unfounded evidence?
Only insiders and those who really have something to do with MJs business can know the facts, not fans with articles from TMZ and co., and homemade videos with their own perspective...

Its the same way as all the haters think about Michael, they dont know anything about Michael and facts (trials and evidence), but they discuss him as "experts", and we - fans are pissed off of them, see the point?

 

[Memefan]

The Trust determines how much Estate Ex. get paid. Nobody expects them to do it for free. But when they start getting cuts from all the deals ($12.5M each for latest Sony deal + many other examples), then that is what is against California Probate Code Section 9657:

http://law.onecle.com/california/probate/9657.html



Jackson Honchos Score $3 Mil

Originally posted Aug 7th 2009 10:30 PM PDT by TMZ Staff
The special administrators of Michael Jackson's estate scored a big one -- reeling in $3 million from the company that issued a life insurance policy to M.J.

John Branca (above) and John McClain quietly cashed in the policy -- reports it was worth upwards of $20 million are simply not true. It was a $3 million payout. And here's why it was a swift move -- the coroner hasn't even released the autopsy report yet.

Some life insurance companies are hinky about paying out proceeds until the cause of death is known. Remember Heath Ledger's death, when the life insurance company wouldn't promptly fork over the $10 million because Heath allegedly lied about drug use on the application?

Somehow Branca and McClain convinced the insurance company to ante up with lightening speed -- and the estate is $3 million richer for it.

http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/08/jackson-honchos-score-3-mil/8/

Only 3M$ for MJ?...well, that is ridiculous.

Or maybe the ins. co wouldn't pay because there were drugs involved, so the estate admins made a deal for 3M$?

Remind me again, what is wrong with getting the ins co to pay up snap? The $$$ went to the estate...so I fail to see the conspiracy angle. they should have waited a year to file???

California Probate Code Section: Did you take time to process what you just wrote? How is it ILLEGAL if a judge approved the compensation? And Katherine Jackson's attorney & the attorney for the children said it was "fair".

. “I think that this is very reasonable,” Katherine Jackson’s lawyer Adam Streisand said. “There is an incentive for the executors to grow the business and that will, of course, affect their compensation.” http://www.rollingstone.com/rockdai...-executors-receive-10-percent-cut-of-profits/


And, you should know it is 5% each of the profits..so how are they getting 12.5M each on the Sony deal? 250M is the gross amount....

My question for: DO you think if Joe Jackson & Randy Jackson were put in control of the estate, they would NOT seek their 10%++++ compensation? You think they would spend hours upon hours dealing with claims, lawsuits, putting albums together, negotiate new deals for FREE?

Compensation approved for Jackson estate admins


LOS ANGELES — A judge has granted approval to a deal that will give two men administering Michael Jackson’s estate 10 percent of its profits, minus some sizable assets.

Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Mitchell Beckloff approved the arrangement after some discussion at a hearing Wednesday.

Attorney John Branca and music executive John McClain will split 10 percent of the profits they earn Jackson’s estate, minus profits from the “This Is It” film and the singer’s interests in a lucrative music catalog.

Beckloff is retaining some oversight over the payments and scheduled a progress report for September. Attorneys for Branca and McClain told Beckloff the men will likely earn less than they would have if they sought guideline compensation for running Jackson’s estate.

FACTS ARE FACTS...NO MATTER HOW YOU WANT TO TWIST THEM.

i don't care how much a person thinks they deserve it, and how much they are sitting on a gold mine, as they are with Michael's estate, and how society has changed over the years, if a person seeks to deceive, they are the only one who will lose in the end(they can't hurt Michael). that rule never changes. i don't care if they use the excuse that they got the estate richer. you'd think that they were used to working with successful acts, and had no need to sweeten things, in a deceptive way.

huh? you lost me there .

Again, it seems some people are "total experts" for everything, and they do know the things better than all the lawyers and businessmen in MJs business matters, better than Michael knew himself.

Its really dangerous for all MJs fans to be manipulated by the other fans presenting some particular info about something they dont know anything relevant about.

Its the same manipulation as Tom Sneddon and Diane Dimond tried to persuade the world about Michael.
Everything seems to fit together, but the reality is quite different.

Demonizing people like Branca and McClain is totally unacceptable without the facts required as evidence, because here there are articles presented from TMZ and co., some acts and laws and their sections as - fact that this is the evidence that the "conspiracy" or confidence trick is real and obvious, like its has to be like this....

So fans are those who will determine the factors ... who conspires against Michael? just because of some articles and unfounded evidence?
Only insiders and those who really have something to do with MJs business can know the facts, not fans with articles from TMZ and co., and homemade videos with their own perspective...

Its the same way as all the haters think about Michael, they dont know anything about Michael and facts (trials and evidence), but they discuss him as "experts", and we - fans are pissed off of them, see the point?

MF, that is very brave of you...but it is really not worth it to try to change people' mind. The facts are there for all to see...and in a few years, when the dust settles, they will look back & feel like pawns.

And I still haven't made up my mind yet on which his worst, being a Joe & Randy Jackson' pawn or a Karen Fake's pawn. I know Brian Oxman should be added somewhere...but nevermind.

 

[ivy]

The Trust determines how much Estate Ex. get paid. Nobody expects them to do it for free. But when they start getting cuts from all the deals ($12.5M each for latest Sony deal + many other examples), then that is what is against California Probate Code Section 9657

still this discussion? this is hugely incorrect and anybody who doesn't know the law, who refuses to read the full law and listen to people with actual experience in the field should refrain from making such strong statements (or keep it in the conspiracy section and do not carry them to the main discussion as facts) . In the end you cause other fans to believe these ridiculous and utterly wrong statements and send them on a wild goose chase to blame (and even try to start an investigation on corruption) the executors. what people fail to realize that the estate is currently in probate - meaning that almost all actions are already currently being overseen by a judge.

anyway this issue already been explained here http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=89507 but for the people who don't want to read the thread I'll provide a simple explanation that even a 5 year old can comprehend.

How did the Sony deal happen? Did the magic elves do it? Or was it fairy godmother? did it suddenly appeared from thin air? - Well no.
Then who did that deal? - Executors
Did it take their time, effort? Are they still going to work on it such as determining the future projects, selecting the songs, overseeing the progress? - Yes

Guess what? As an executor if you do a job you get a fee paid for it. And that's what's happening here. Executors managed to sign a huge deal for the estate that requires their current and future work and effort and they are getting a percentage paid for that work. It's that simple and completely legal. Furthermore what they will be paid has been approved by a judge.

Let me even clarify it more: Do you go to work and get paid for the work that you do? Of course you do. Is that called profiting? No it is not. Very simply you work and you get paid for the job that you do. It's the same thing for the executors.

Profiting is a whole different thing - which has been explained in the actual thread for this discussion. I will not copy that here as I don't want to confuse people.

ps: I find it quite inappropriate to muddy two executors and a superior court judge's name by suggesting illegal activities on their part (esp when people are not legal experts and just misreading the law) on a platform like MJJC.

Even the Jackson family members who believe in conspiracy and see Murray as the fall guy in a bigger scheme, most of the time refrain from pointing fingers and they definitely do not go and include judges and authorities into the mix.

 

[144000]

i really miss MJ...the wise one. MJ seemed to have all the answers. now, everybody has nothing but questions.

why is it such an epidemic that the only people that are apparently judged to know something about money, are those who are listed in a Forbes top ten, and who have never been reported to have been in any financial trouble?

i guess we're in a wonderful economy. not. 'kudos' to the authors. by the way, this is a wide ranging topic..from all things Raymone Bain, to all things, the estate, and Michael and the estate.

 

[StaceyMJ]

Everyone is entitled to their opinions and views. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that as long as it is done with respect and without attacking each other in the process.
With that said, I just want to remind you all that this thread is about Raymone Bain, not about all matters of the estate that is veering on being suitable for the conspiracy forum. Please take it there from now on as this is not the correct thread/forum for that.

Thankyou. :flowers:

EDIT: On second thoughts this thread has run it's course so I'm going to close it.