[ Pretrial Discussion Closed ] AEG files summary judgment motion to dismiss Katherine's lawsuit

[Big Apple2]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

We also have Jermaine making comments about a black man accused against another black man, as if Murray was some misguided unfortunate soul who was being grossly used by the big bad corporation and whose guilt is more accepted because of his race, instead of someone who gave his brother a lethal drug and then left him to go talk to his many women.

Oh and don't forget about Jermaine's LATEST claim. That being that "Michael would be doing 50 dates with his brothers, once his O2 committment was complete." As per Jermaine "it was already PLANNED."

I guess the folks that were "controlling" Michael, kept the family away from Michael, but had no problem with Michael doing 50 dates with his brothers.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

The only info re dip is neil ratner in history. no evidence for dangerous and tmk gongaware was only involved in dangerous?

 

[Bonnie Blue]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

^ No i read gongaware was dangerous and history.

Gee, i hope the jacksons aren't going to stoop so low and exploit the completely extraordinary events of the chandler allegations during the 2nd leg of dangerous tour and mj's subsequent drug addiction, to show some type of pattern of mj abusing drugs on tour.

 

[CherubimII]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

It's interesting that some equal money to justice.

Money does not equal justice.

The civil legal system in America exists only to try to balance the scale "Lady Justice" holds.

We have lost Michael Jackson; so nothing can balance the Lady's scale.

 

[ivy]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Hang on a bit. Was mj using prop before 09 widely reported?? - i've only read hints of it - there's nothing definite, at least until this trial where unfortunately we might get the whole chapter and verse on mj's prop use. There is zilch evidence to prove aeg executives knew about propofol but if anyone at aeg did know about mj possibly using propofol in the run up to tii - then it would be game over for aeg in this lawsuit. Dr shafer wasn't condoning the use of prolonged use of prop as a sleep aid, just as a drug in a controlled setting for the purposes it was designed for. Every medical professional in that trial, apart from dr white, was aghast at prop being used in a bedroom as a sleep aid - saying it was an accident waiting to happen.

no it wasn't widely reported before 2009. What I was trying to say even Gongaware knew about Ratner and even Gongaware knew Ratner was giving Michael stuff that he shouldn't have, even Gongaware thought that Murray was going to give Michael the similar stuff he shouldn't be giving, he had no reason to suspect that it would kill Michael.

Similarly even if someone knew the specifics about Propofol they would have no reason to suspect it would be dangerous. Again and again we heard "it's a safe drug when given properly".

What I was trying to say, even if there was knowledge about Propofol or in general, I would think that the only alarms will sound only and when they knew the administration wasn't proper. Do we think Gongaware knew Murray was leaving Michael on a drip to talk to his stripper women?

 

[Bubs]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Michael McParland ? @MMcParland The Jackson family's decision to drop their $100 million restitution claim vs Conrad Murray is a tactical one.Same claims as in civil cases.

CM was the one who killed MJ, that is the fact.
If this wasn't for money for Jacksons, why didn't they take restitution from CM.
I know the answer. Because if they did take restitution, they could not have gone to trial and ask money from AEG as judge/jurors would have seen that they already got 100 million from CM, and it would have been likely that they would have been awarded any money at all. Also, any money from CM trial would have gone to Michael children, but now if Katherine wins the case, every Jackson will have a villa in Italy.
You know, CM=no money at all/AEG=loads of money. Where do you see that justice?

I would have felt differently towards Jacksons if they had taken at least something from CM, but nothing.
I wouldn't be even surprised if we someday hear that Jacksons paid to CM to lie about AEG.

 

[ivy]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Michael McParland ? @MMcParland The Jackson family's decision to drop their $100 million restitution claim vs Conrad Murray is a tactical one.Same claims as in civil cases.

CM was the one who killed MJ, that is the fact.
If this wasn't for money for Jacksons, why didn't they take restitution from CM.
I know the answer. Because if they did take restitution, they could not have gone to trial and ask money from AEG as judge/jurors would have seen that they already got 100 million from CM, and it would have been likely that they would have been awarded any money at all. Also, any money from CM trial would have gone to Michael children, but now if Katherine wins the case, every Jackson will have a villa in Italy.
You know, CM=no money at all/AEG=loads of money. Where do you see that justice?

I would have felt differently towards Jacksons if they had taken at least something from CM, but nothing.
I wouldn't be even surprised if we someday hear that Jacksons paid to CM to lie about AEG.

Damages - in other words money lost due to death- is a fixed amount in wrongful death lawsuits.

For example if you say the income lost is $100 Million (50 concerts x $2 Million) , that's it.

You cannot be paid twice for the money lost. So any restitution put on Murray would have reduced the money they could have gotten from AEG.

So in the criminal trial Walgren asked for $102 Million ( 50 concerts * $2 million per concert + $2 million funeral costs). If judge Pastor ordered Murray to pay this amount, that would have mean it could not be gotten from AEG.

It's all about money. If the goal was to balance the scale of Lady Justice holds, Murray shouldn't be given a free pass. His life should have been made a hell with a huge financial burden on his head and it would have made him stop talking about Michael as well.

so yeah I would have felt differently if they held Murray responsible for his action. But as they gave him a free pass and keep talking how he's just a fall guy and go after the "big company" because they hope for billions in payments doesn't sit well with me.

Don't you find it interesting that people that got nothing to do with Michael such as Walgren, Judge Pastor and Dr. Shafer spent a lot of time making sure that the Murray's guilt was obvious but that Jacksons has no second thoughts about giving Murray a free pass and/or minimize his role in Michael's death?

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

one thing that stands out to me when i read the judges quote for letting the gongaware part stand is that murray had already worked for mj and his kids. its not like he suddenly appeared on the scene which might make u suspicious as to what was going on. also the fact that its hardly rare for artists to have drs on tour. imo the judges ruling was weak.

no it wasn't widely reported before 2009. What I was trying to say even Gongaware knew about Ratner and even Gongaware knew Ratner was giving Michael stuff that he shouldn't have, even Gongaware thought that Murray was going to give Michael the similar stuff he shouldn't be giving, he had no reason to suspect that it would kill Michael.

Similarly even if someone knew the specifics about Propofol they would have no reason to suspect it would be dangerous. Again and again we heard "it's a safe drug when given properly".

What I was trying to say, even if there was knowledge about Propofol or in general, I would think that the only alarms will sound only and when they knew the administration wasn't proper. Do we think Gongaware knew Murray was leaving Michael on a drip to talk to his stripper women?

 

[Big Apple2]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

one thing that stands out to me when i read the judges quote for letting the gongaware part stand is that murray had already worked for mj and his kids. its not like he suddenly appeared on the scene which might make u suspicious as to what was going on. also the fact that its hardly rare for artists to have drs on tour. imo the judges ruling was weak.

I agree elusive. It's like, for whatever reason, the Judge throw Mother a bone and not much else.

Murray not only took care of Michael, he also at one time or another treated Michael's children. In the beginning, Mother's side liked to make folks think that it was AEG who chose Murray. That particular bubble has now been burst.

I also think that Murray and Michael had some type of friendship over the year's. Murray not only had dinner at Michael's house on several occassions, he also brought over the "instrument." When he brought the "instrument" over to meet Michael, he was not there as Michael's doctor, he was there as Michael's friend. In my opinion, of course.

 

[Annita]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

no it wasn't widely reported before 2009. What I was trying to say even Gongaware knew about Ratner and even Gongaware knew Ratner was giving Michael stuff that he shouldn't have, even Gongaware thought that Murray was going to give Michael the similar stuff he shouldn't be giving, he had no reason to suspect that it would kill Michael.

Similarly even if someone knew the specifics about Propofol they would have no reason to suspect it would be dangerous. Again and again we heard "it's a safe drug when given properly".

I must say we have learned that Propofol is not a drug that may be given outside a hospital and it is no medicine for insomnia.
So I think if AEG or Gongoware knew that Murray gave Michael Propofol it would have been easy to find out that this is not a appropriate treatment andi it is dangerous to give it outside a hospital.
But I do not think they knew about Propofol.

 

[jamba]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

June 23 (2 days before Michael's death) From Timm Woolley to an insurance broker

"Randy Phillips and Dr. Murray are responsible for MJ rehearsal and attendance schedule."

This doesn't say anything incriminating--it just means the 2 people are resp. for a SCHEDULE, i.e. setting up when Mike will be at rehearsal. How does this prove negligence?? Isn't a SCHEDULE something that's necessary for planning rehearsals? I think they are desperate if they think this proves anything.

What is worrying is if there is some kind of collusion between Jackson family and CM to find AEG responsible.

I just read something creepy in The Sun re a reality show with PPB that LaToya is hawking for sale--will be out of OWN and I guess also sold to other broadcast companies. Price is now at 6 M British pounds (according to Sun).

This is all to get around the will and still get $$ from Mike's name and fame.

 

[LastTear]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Yes I'm posting this again. Because it proves what I've been saying: AEG is a big multinational billionaire company made up of people of "unknown" and now I will add "questionable" moral character. Thus, I cannot support them over Katherine Jackson in this matter.

I just can't get my head around what you are getting at, perhaps I am seeing at from the wrong angle, but to me you are saying that KJ should win just because AEG are a big multinational billionaire company. I guess in the same was that some people chose to believe GA because they would take a childs word over a mega superstar rather than read, listen and search for the truth.

 

[jamba]

Katherine’s attorneys’ are going to argue that they didn’t care what Murray was doing either. That as long as he got MJ on the stage, it didn’t matter to them how, and that they might have known he was using unorthodox and dangerous methods, and because of their duress on Murray and his need for cash, they precipitated and are liable for the extreme treatment he used.

I agree they will try and argue that but it is absurd tht AEG didn't care what CM was doing--obviously they did not want CM to injure, kill Mike--they wanted Mike at rehearsals HEALTHY and READY.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Agree jamba re the email. that proves nothing

 

[jamba]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Hang on a bit. Was mj using prop before 09 widely reported?? - i've only read hints of it - there's nothing definite, at least until this trial where unfortunately we might get the whole chapter and verse on mj's prop use. There is zilch evidence to prove aeg executives knew about propofol but if anyone at aeg did know about mj possibly using propofol in the run up to tii - then it would be game over for aeg in this lawsuit. Dr shafer wasn't condoning the use of prolonged use of prop as a sleep aid, just as a drug in a controlled setting for the purposes it was designed for. Every medical professional in that trial, apart from dr white, was aghast at prop being used in a bedroom as a sleep aid - saying it was an accident waiting to happen.


Fabulous. This trial is going to have lots of talk about how mj was drug addicted on his previous tours. Thanks mrs j - and no i'm not blaming randy for this, it's mj's mother and guardian of his children that had the power and means to bring this lawsuit and unleash another sh*tstorm of bad publicity for mj.

Yes, unfortunately we are going to hear all about the last 2 tours--Dangerous and HIStory, so we are going to hear all about the Chandler accusations as far as stress and all the cancelled concerts and whatever they can prove or suggest Mike was taking--and I am guessing it will be more than the painkillers he admitted to before he went into rehab, although not propofol (I hope). I wonder if they can subpoena Ratner for HIStory. Will they subpoena the rehab doc? This will not help Mike's reputation.

It's so sad that PPB are being dragged into it. They might say some really sad things if they get on the stand about what Michael was going through emotionally in his last days. Paris had said he was crying all the time and cold. Of course, they were 11 and 12 and 7 at the time so they could not have known what was really going on--just what they saw as far as his emotional state. Are the kids in therapy? I think they might need it.

 

[Bonnie Blue]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Similarly even if someone knew the specifics about Propofol they would have no reason to suspect it would be dangerous. Again and again we heard "it's a safe drug when given properly".

What I was trying to say, even if there was knowledge about Propofol or in general, I would think that the only alarms will sound only and when they knew the administration wasn't proper. Do we think Gongaware knew Murray was leaving Michael on a drip to talk to his stripper women?

Thanks for explaining ivy. I just strongly disagree re being relaxed about propofol use. MJ was being used as a medical experiment, there are no medical studies of it being used long term as a sleep aid and even a sleazeball like murray recognised he had to cover up it's existence on 25 june. I just feel you might be jumping the gun a bit with linking knowledge of prop to aeg and i'm not sure why. Mrs j's lawyers just seem to be saying gongaware 'should have known' about it as he was on some tour with mj where there were rumours of it being used - it's all v vague and impossible to prove. There's no smoking gun there or else the judge wd have mentioned it rather than wax lyrical about how there's an industry practise of artists taking drugs on tours. Is she suggesting concert promotors need to ban doctors from tours now as they are perceived to be a threat?

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

agree bonnie

---------------------------------
Paris had said he was crying all the time
------------------------

did she? according to who? the jacksons?

 

[Bubs]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

^^^ LaToya most likely.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

exactly!

 

[ivy]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Anthony McCartney ?@mccartneyAP
@Ivy_4MJ @lmt4mj The full order is being 'imaged' by the court. No idea on ETA, but I'm definitely looking out for it. (cont...)

@Ivy_4MJ @lmt4mj As for the email, it was displayed briefly in court last week, but doesn't appear to have been 'released.' (cont)

Anthony McCartney ?@mccartneyAP
@Ivy_4MJ @lmt4mj According to the courtroom clerk, earlier sealed filings remain sealed. That's why I'm waiting for the order to see (cont)

Anthony McCartney ?@mccartneyAP
@Ivy_4MJ @lmt4mj ... to see what is available.

 

[ivy]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

The 2/28 Order that Anthony McCartney reported from. Still the 2/27 order that Alan Duke referred is not "imaged" (meaning scanned and/or copied) and available.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/128521652/AEG-Case-Feb-28-Order

[scribd]128521652[/scribd]

 

[8701girl]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Finally if Murray's debt is a factor, didn't he have the all motivation in the world to keep Michael alive and get paid $150,000 a month for up to 4 years (as Jacksons claim) than killing Michael and not getting a dime?

This is what i dont understand it just doesmt sense.

 

[8701girl]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

agree bonnie

---------------------------------
Paris had said he was crying all the time
------------------------

did she? according to who? the jacksons?

Hmmmmm i really hope the jacksons arent making the kids say stuff bout michael that arent true, but ( i dont mean to offened anyone with what im bout to write) i wouldnt be surprised if that is what they are gonna do. If they are gonna testify they needd to say the truth and not what others (aka the jacksons siblings) want them to

 

[Petrarose]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

I'm glad the trial is going forward. I hope Michael's mom and kids are successful.

Successful in what exactly.

What we know so far is that although Muarry was negligent in causing Michael's death, he was not sued for money, but the company who has the billions are. We still have no evidence that AEG told Muarry to give Michael prof & be negligent. We know Muarry asked for equipment for London and not LA. We know Michael's death was mainly due to him not being monitored.

 

[justnat]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

This is what i dont understand it just doesmt sense.

Really? It makes a lot of sense. Being in debt, our so-called doctor was too afraid to lose his golden job and let somebody else to "keep Michael alive". Michael health became secondary to "get him ready for rehearsals". He was pushes to get Michael to the rehearsals and took chances. We all know how it ended.
That's said, I still don't see how this makes AEG legally liable, how they could possible foresee this outcome.

 

[Petrarose]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

Really? It makes a lot of sense. Being in debt, our so-called doctor was too afraid to lose his golden job and let somebody else to "keep Michael alive". Michael health became secondary to "get him ready for rehearsals". He was pushes to get Michael to the rehearsals and took chances. We all know how it ended.
That's said, I still don't see how this makes AEG legally liable, how they could possible foresee this outcome.

It is the opposite. If you are in debt, you will be careful in taking care of the person who is responsible for your money, if that is your job. You will do everything possible to maintain the health of your patient so that he will be safe & your money continues. He was asked to make sure Michael came to rehearsals, so to me that means he was to maintain Michael's health so that he came to rehearsals. Any juror would make that determination. Michael's health cannot be made "secondary" as you claim "so Michael could go to rehearsals," since it is good health that will make Michael go to rehearsals.
If he is sick he will miss rehearsals, which is what happened & led to the "alleged riot act." I would do the same think to if Michael brought in a doc to be with him & keep him healthy & I see Michael is sick & missing rehearsals. I would call the doc & ask him what is he paid for, why isn't he doing his job?

 

[justnat]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

It is the opposite. If you are in debt, you will be careful in taking care of the person who is responsible for your money, if that is your job. You will do everything possible to maintain the health of your patient so that he will be safe & your money continues. He was asked to make sure Michael came to rehearsals, so to me that means he was to maintain Michael's health so that he came to rehearsals. Any juror would make that determination. Michael's health cannot be made "secondary" as you claim "so Michael could go to rehearsals," since it is good health that will make Michael go to rehearsals.
If he is sick he will miss rehearsals, which is what happened & led to the "alleged riot act." I would do the same think to if Michael brought in a doc to be with him & keep him healthy & I see Michael is sick & missing rehearsals. I would call the doc & ask him what is he paid for, why isn't he doing his job?

Well, what you said is common sense. This common sense has certainly not worked with Murray. May I remind you about this doctor during the trial who was suppose to join Murray and then never contacted again? I guess, Dr. Death did not want to share.
Actually, during the trial one of the things that made my blood boil were those former patients of his. Like it or not, he was NOT a bad doctor. But being in debt and seeing lot of money, he instead of caring for his patient began cutting corners. No monitoring equipment. No anesthesiologist. Get MJ to attend rehearsal no matter what.
There is no doubt in my mind that he indeed felt pressed by AEG. And this e-mail is very telling. They did not employ him, they did not signed the contract, but when push come to shove, they nevertheless reminded him who is the boss, and it certainly was not Michael. Does that make them liable? I don't think so, law does not work this way as far as I know. Do I think AEG is innocent in all that? No way. Does all this situation makes Murray less guilty? Not at all.
I don't believe that Mrs. Jackson and the children will win this case. But I am certainly not taking sides.

 

[ivy]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

In a jury trial you can never guess the verdict.

 

[Severus Snape]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

SMOKING GUN! What smoking gun?

I saw that title and "thought" I was going to see something huge! Like, oh, I don't know, maybe the email in question would include the word "Dipravan" or maybe the word "Propofol." Or a possible sentence wherein AEG is discussing Michael's sleep issues and that Murray should do "whatever was necessary to ensure Michael got some sleep at night." Now THAT in my opinion would have been a smoking gun.

And the fact that Allan Duke is talking about BILLIONS OF DOLLARS is an insult, in my opinion! That fool needs to turn in his "I'm a journalist" card." That article is so one-sided, it's embarrassing!

Ok, the article isn't the best-worded thing ever, but that's no reason to insult him, either. v_v

Still, what a mess. Coming into this thread..... je regrette... I am so sick of the Jacksons, and everything, tbh. Just hope the kids are alright.

It all sickens me tremendously. The world without Michael isn't a pretty one for anybody, least of all for these children. I don't trust the Jacksons, that's no secret. It's obvious what they hope to achieve with this stupid trial... the fact they were wanting Murray to help them speaks for itself.

 

[gerryevans]

Re: AEG files their summary judgment motion asking to dismiss Katherine Jackson lawsuit

In a jury trial you can never guess the verdict.

Especially when you have an elderly grieving mother, her expert multiple lawyers, and a generally negative perception of big corporations by many in the public.