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Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

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Tygger said:
Big Apple2, there is not one testimony suggesting Michael was stressed due to his non-commitment to the All Good Entertainment venture. Not one. It has only been discussed in this subforum, not once in the courtroom.
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Oh please, a lot of stuff YOU post has nothing to do with testimony from the courtroom, but you still post it. Knock it off!!!

Aside from that, if they listed EVERYTHING that may have caused Michael Jackson to have stress and/or anxiety they would have been in that courtroom for 5 more months, that's how long the list is, in my opinion.
 
Big Apple2, I have read every testimony and have discussed it at length in this subforum. Try again.

Medical professionals testified Michael was stressed due to the TII rehearsals. Michael said that directly to them. I did not fabricate that.
 
Big Apple2 said:
In my opinion, a person's HEALTH trumps all of the above.

In my further opinion, Michael didn't want to go to the emergency room, because he didn't want anybody to know what Murray was doing to him at night in his bedroom.
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^ And I agree.
 
elapentela said:
It's funny. When Michael used to repeat over and over "don't recall" during some of his deposition, some experts and of course we as the fans proclaimed him being very smart and well prepared by defense lawyer.
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And AEG executives were also very well prepared by their defense lawyers. I remember Phillips mentioned there were several who had advised him. The point now is whose testimony the jury will believe.

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elapentela said:
Excuse me, Arvizos still didn't lie under oath for money but of course they can do it in the future
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NOOO!!! Time expired too long ago and it would have been POINTLESS after losing the criminal trial.

AND OF COURSE THEY LIED FOR MONEY!!!! But that's off topic now.
 
I agree with you Big Apple. That falls under the personal responsibility of ones own health, which we will be hearing a lot during defenses closing argument. MJ knew he wasn't ok, but refused to see other doctor than CM. Defense will be telling to jurors that MJ refused to listen warnings from others and didn't tell to his doctors what other doctors prescribed to him. I just don't believe MJ didn't know that some medicines will causes interaction with other and can cause potentially life threatening situation.
AEG tried to get him to hire doctor from UK, and they had no idea why MJ insisted his own doctor, but who are they argue with MJ who should be his own doctor, and especially when payment was coming from MJ.
Then they will be pointing out that MJ accepted propofol treatment from CM knowing that he wasn't qualified (as per his note in which he wrote CM must practice). He willingly put himself on hands of CM and trusted that he'll be ok as long as he was being monitored.

I don't think AEG should be made pay because MJ trusted on doctors and CM.
 
smoothlugar said:
And AEG executives were also very well prepared by their defense lawyers.
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A good defense attorney usually prepares their client like that. Especially when a video deposition get's thrown into the mix.

Otherwise you end up like Dr. Metzer. LOL! Two different versions of the same story and/or having to clean up something you said during your deposition that differs from your live testimony.
 
Bubs said:
with MJ who should be his own doctor, and especially when payment was coming from MJ.
Then they will be pointing out that MJ accepted propofol treatment from CM knowing that he wasn't qualified (as per his note in which he wrote CM must practice). He willingly put himself on hands of CM and trusted that he'll be ok as long as he was being monitored.
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I don't like those notes one bit, they make me very sad. It's like Michael allowed himself to be a guinea pig for Murray to practice on. If the notes are to be taken at face value, that's how they read to me.

On another note, I have said this before, Michael had to know that the "very LIMITED" medical equipment Murray was using on him was way, WAY different from the medical equipment he had seen being used on him before. I really don't think Michael was going to bring Murray with him. In my opinion, Michael was still looking for a doctor with experience in the use of propofol to travel with him and Murray knew that as well. That's why Murray taped Michael like he did, it was his very own insurance policy.
 
Taj and TJ jackson just entered the courtroom. TJ is co-guardian of MJ's children with Katherine Jackson. They are seated next to grandma.

ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 9m
Session has not started yet. We're all here waiting for judge and jurors to come in.

ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 16m
You can watch our liver stream of the closing here: http://abc7.la/18TbBHO

ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 17m
Lead Attorney for AEG is Marvin Putnam. Katherine Jackson just arrived, wearing an electric blue suit. Rebbie is with her.

ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 18m
Good morning all. Day 86 of trial is about to begin. AEG Live will do their closing argument today. They will take 4 hours, we are told.
------------------
I see one of the grannynappers has recovered and appear to be healthy enough to attend to closing arguments.
 
bubs said:
Then they will be pointing out that MJ accepted propofol treatment from CM knowing that he wasn't qualified (as per his note in which he wrote CM must practice). He willingly put himself on hands of CM and trusted that he'll be ok as long as he was being monitored.
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How will they -those notes weren't entered into testimony as they were undated and unverified. You seen to interpret the word practise as in 'practise makes perfect', i interpret the phrase as murray shd begin practising now, ie working. It's down to interpretation. No way will i believe that mj, a committed father of 3 young children would willingly be used as some guinea pig by some doctor who didn't know what he was doing. It's one thing to deny aeg had liability in this trial, but this idea goes to the dynamics of the mj/murray relationship. It suggests that this note is like some consent form from mj for murray to use mj as some type of practise board, allowing for mistakes to be made - not even murray suggested this defence of his conduct. I've got absolutely no doubt that murray eagerly presented himself as perfectly competent to carry out this prop infusion - his general narcissistic personality, his eagerness to go on tour with mj and his behaviour with dr adams clearly point to that. I'm just amazed at mj fans thinking that mj actually volunteered to be treated by an incompetent substandard doctor who had admitted he didn't know what he was doing.


Bubs said:
There is more problems than that. Plaintiffs says that AEG pressurised CM, so CM felt pressure to give in to MJ demands.
The problem is that email was never sent to CM, his name was not one of the receivers. How could he feel pressurised if he doesn't know it?
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Murray was given the responsibility of getting mj to rehearsals, after apparently keeping mj back from rehearsal in mid june. Murray knew that the money and contract was coming from aeg, he had meetings with phillips, angry ones judging by prince and kai chase, and he had a half hour conversation with phillips after the 19th june crisis. He rounded on ortega in that meeting on the 20th and backed up phillip's position that ortega shd have no concern over mj's health. I would say murray knew the score.
 
Bonnie Blue said:
No way will i believe that mj, a committed father of 3 young children would willingly be used as some guinea pig by some doctor who didn't know what he was doing.
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But wasn't that exactly what Michael was doing?

Murray was a heart doctor with NO proper knowledge in the administration of propofol, nor how to alleviate any problems that might arise from same.

Michael knew it also, that's why he continued to search out a person with propofol experience. Just my opinion.
 
Putnam threw out there that Havenhurts was in brink of foreclosure, and later he said that Panish told yesterday to jurors that KJ filed this lawsuit to find out what happen to MJ, then Putnam said that if you remember KJ testified she doesn't like hearing bad news and closes her ears from them, priceless.
 
Bubs said:
then Putnam said that if you remember KJ testified she doesn't like hearing bad news and closes her ears from them, priceless.
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This is just a side note: That is such an unrealistic way to live. I mean, Mother is the Matriarch of the family. Isn't "Big Momma" the one you usually go to when you have a problem and need somebody to talk to?
 
9) A very effective video of Randy Phillips, Congaware, Liewke and many other from AEG repeating 'they dont recall' to several different questions (compared them with Prince who answered all of Putmans questions
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That´s normal.
If you are sixteen you remember things although sometimes you misunderstand what you see or hear.
When you are 50 you forget.
I use to say in the head there are shelves with memories.
When you get older it can be quite crowded at some shelves and dusty too.
Some memories are buried in dust.
 
I personally believe that Michael may be stressed by the AGE lawsuit. He was looking to rebuild his life after the trial, probably determined to NEVER have to deal with the US court system EVER again - to have this lawsuit crop up must have been disheartening!

Whether it was discussed in this lawsuit or not, I feel that the knowledge that his family had AGAIN put him in a litigious position with another company would have played on Michael's mind. It may not be something thought about consciously but it may have been something else that piled on the pressure.
 
Man, I can't watch the proceedings when they show those Propofol bottles on Michael's night stand.

I mean, looking at "regular" prescription bottles on a person's nightstand is one thing, and sort of normal in some instances, but those dang Propofol bottles give me the chills.
 
Dileos declaration about knowing all about CM contract was new to me.
 
Bubs said:
Dileos declaration about knowing all about CM contract was new to me.
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What did he say about DiLeo's declaration? That's news to me also.

Last thing I heard about DiLeo was when Mother's side was trying to get information off of his personal computer. I guess they didn't find anything, because I never heard about that topic again.

What up Bubs?
 
I think Putman is doing a good job at clearly getting the points across and in context.

Dileo's signed declaration proves that Michael's 'team' knew about Murray, whereas the Plantiffs were asserting that Michael's side knew nothing about Murray.
 
Big Apple2 said:
This is just a side note: That is such an unrealistic way to live. I mean, Mother is the Matriarch of the family. Isn't "Big Momma" the one you usually go to when you have a problem and need somebody to talk to?
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This is different type of big momma. You might go to big momma if you have something to give her, and when you go to big momma, keep your problems to yourself and don't be bothering her with bad news.

Matriach has been all ears last 5 months of trial because there is 1.5 billion at stake, but she didn't want to hear bad news like her son possibly being drug addict or her son needing help from his mother he so dearly loved.
:puke:
 
LastTear said:
I think Putman is doing a good job at clearly getting the points across and in context.

Dileo's signed declaration proves that Michael's 'team' knew about Murray, whereas the Plantiffs were asserting that Michael's side knew nothing about Murray.
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He is doing great job, reminds me a little bit of my darling Walgren, although noone is as good as Walgren:wub:

Did we hear anything about Dileo's declaration during the trial?
 
I think Dileo made a sworn declaration to police in 2009, I remember it was mention in the beginning of the trial
 
In general, Putnam's arguments seem clear to follow and straight to the point. (Regardless of what each one's personal beliefs are).

One thing that called my attention and that I'm doubtful is that he stressed that to answer questions 2 and 3 of the jury form, jurors have to concentrate only on what AEG knew about Murray, and not on what they knew about Michael's health. I'm not sure this needs to be so.

Another interesting thing is the end of Tim email to Murray, stating there will be more following discussions for an agreement, and so according to Putnam this shows that by 6th May (I think) there was no agreement, in spite of Murray's reply to his email.
 
Bubs said:
He is doing great job, reminds me a little bit of my darling Walgren, although noone is as good as Walgren:wub:

Did we hear anything about Dileo's declaration during the trial?
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I wouldn't go quite so far as comparing him to our Wally :wub: Not quite the same charisma, I notice he always seems to have a bit of a grin on his face, maybe he only has one expression. :hysterical:
 
Thanks Annita. Do you know if I can read it somewhere?
 
I switched just in time to hear Mr. Putnam say that "AEG didn't hire Murray and NEVER ADVANCED ANY MONEY TO HIM."

That's still a sticking point with me. I mean, work = money to most folks.

It will be interesting to see how the jury processes that portion of information.
 
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