Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

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^^Yeah but AEG showed that Randy was not the one dealing with that, so he was just shooting off his mouth as usual. I expect AEG to bring that in. I wish both closings were on the same day, so you could see how AEG responds right away.

This oral contract and conduct issue is going to make AEG lose, I think. I hate to see someone bet billions based on a technicality.

That point about Muarry is responsible for rehearsal because he was hired is not good. Michael could have a maid he pays on his own, and aEG could still say the maid is responsible for bringing Michael to the show and they could have the maid's number too. It has nothing to do with hiring.

Oh oh he is using the job as an Anesthesiologist to show unfit to do the job he was hired for, and not that Muarry was hired as a regular doctor. However, did AEG hire him for that? This was the question we were all talking about.
 
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Panish brings up that AEG wanted to get a house for Murray, they say Murray was put in charge of rehearsals, they say his fee was put in the budget.

He says Kenny Ortega and Travis Payne was hired and working without a fully executed contract.

He says Murray was pressured because of they money AEG was gonna pay him. "People do things for money".

No expert witness that testified have seen a contract like the one MJ, AEG and Murray had together.

He mentions that Detective Orlando Martinez also thought Murray was pressured due to his financial situation.
 
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Is that Mr. Panish speaking now? If so, for some reason I pictured him differently.

Anyhoo, in the United States, the only place they are showing this closing is on HLN, everybody else seems to be engrossed with what's going on at the U.N. in New York City. Since it's HLN, maybe ole Nancy Grace will weigh in tonight. I'm sure somebody will enlighten us, if that happens.

Mr. Panish needs more passion, in my opinion. I switched over 3 times and am STILL waiting for him to "peak" my interest.
 
^^

I was just thinking that he sounds quite monotone
 
Yeah this is a strange closing. I think it is because he is trying to tell the jury what to put down, like a teacher, rather than making an argument.

How does he know Michael did not want a contract. He said this more than once.

Gonga is funny with that e-mail.
 
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That Paul Congaware deposition that the court is showing now is really painful and awkward to watch. Very awkward and he tells so many lies and then gets confused when asked questions.
 
Petrarose;3908125 said:
I know this case is a technical matter, but I am wondering if Prince really think that AEG had something to do with his dad's death? I know he said his dad cried and I guess this may help him think AEG had something to do with the death? Prince did not show up for the Muarry trial, and I know he was younger then. If he shows up for this, then that would send a clear message to me that he sees it as important.


It seems Prince is not there and obviously Rebbie no longer ill


ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts 1h

Grandsons Taj and TJ just arrived. TJ is co-guardian of Michael's children with Katherine Jackson. Both testified at trial.
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ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts 1h

Katherine Jackson just entered the courtroom. She's wearing a bright purple jacket over a floral dress. Daughter Rebbie Jackson is with her.
 
Yeah this is a strange closing. I think it is because he is trying to tell the jury what to put down, like a teacher, rather than making an argument.

How does he know Michael did not want a contract. He said this more than once.

Gonga is funny with that e-mail.

Yes i agree..........This is sooo long. And i am feeling as confused as Gongaware looked. I wish Panish would stop looking at his notes and look more interesting
 
please do not curse the judge or any other officers of court.
 
Is it just me or Paul Gongaware doesn't impress me at all. I know you shouldn't judge by a video but it feels weird to me.
 
has anyone got a link that works on iPods? I'm getting seriously annoyed right now -_-
 
MJJJusticeProject ‏@MJJJusticePrjct on twitter has been tweeting closing statement as it happens from live stream. the below are their notes, remember that these are fan notes and real time so there could be mistakes in these.

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Panish is explaining civil responsibility of jury duty and how the system works. Panish quotes Bilble "through calm we reason together" and ask the jury to sit in justice for Katherine, Prince, Paris & Blanket Jackson

MJ walked and moonwalked on the earth 50yr and we didn't know till he was gone that no one like him will walk this earth again. He taught us to dare to walk in another shoes before you sit in judgement of another person. He from humble beginnings frm Gary Indiana- then he met Kings. He believed in the good of others even though many didnt believe in his good. He always knew what he wanted to do. Maya Angelou wrote a poem about Michael Jackson - "now we know that we know nothing..."

June 25 2009 the whole world stopped and the whole world grieved. - Now how is Michael Jackson dead after signing a contract w AEG? We have assembled here for 27 weeks to find these answers. Trials are a search for truth. Cross exam is important & vital. When jury's verdict is read you wll speak the truth. You will say what happened to Michael Jackson. You will decide in this case who is responsible - and the lost that has been suffered.

we've compressed 50 yrs to a few weeks.. what we learned here for yrs people will talk about- MJ abused medication during time of stress and pain.. its not disputed.. AEG brought CM to assume that responsibility this is the case. Gongaware worked w Elvis so he knew what goes on.. "show must go on and show must go forward" but this was NOT the thing to do. We heard about Dangerous. we heard Gongaware knowing all that went down. Faye called MJ a "hot mess" Gongaware knew what happens because he talked to Dr Finkelstein.. but they chose NOT to check background of CM. AEG chose to run a risk to make a huge profit and they lost ... they wanted the KOP in their 02 arena and would do whatever it takes. murray wanted unlimited meds and AEG knew they had to give dr whatever he needed to make it happen. Phillips email says MJ was riddled with self-loathing and doubt .. screamed at MIchael, threw him and slapped him to get to 02 Press conf. their emails show AEG suits were worried about Michael's ability but saw when the tickets sold out money could be had. Large profits even tho shows sold out NO insurance was in place.. AEG says no prob but Ins co thought there was.. they refused to insure it

AEG drafted a written agreement w CM to pay 150K per month, asked him to work with insurance - but "stay in your lane DrM" they retained him and failed to supervise him. . they wanted CM to have every medical equip approved only by AEG-email" We want to remind CM that AEG is paying him not MJ" despite the deterioration and alarms from KOrtega .. they pushed forward they told KO not to be a "pscyologicist" and he was shut down .. "stay in you lane Kenny" and CM fincancial sitch
as key.. CM overdose of propofol on MJ june 25 2009. You determination in this case - its about negligence of hiring & supervision


It's simple - what do we have to prove? CM was hired negligently-negligent retention-neglgent supervision. By perponderance of evidence - civil has to be proven only that its MORE LIKELY to be true than not true- if the scale tips ever so slightly. just a feather that tips the scale is enough to tip the burden of proof.. not reasonable doubt.

Panish is giving jury forms and discussing what he will be doing with evidence, # and they can then decide presiding juror deliberate. the points on the jury form - has several questions that the jury will decide –

#1 Did AEG hire Dr CM? Any agent of AEG is responsible for AEG Live. he discusses the names of agents Jorrie, Gongaware, Phillips etc by oral agreement, implied agreement or writen agreement - these agents -5% of gross for AEG for hiring 3rd party vendors If MJ had hired CM previously & was working for him and AEG hired CM for TII it still means they hired him. We claim there was contract & agreement. CM gave service AEG was gonna pay him and they agreed to terms. examine the conduct of behavior or parties and u must conclude reasonably that they was a contract. Philips video is played- " Michael wanted him (CM) for a very large sum, and so we hired him" this was filmed PRIOR to any case. its simple. RP is CEO - he's the leader of AEGLive- then Hollander - she admits CM was hired - she admits CM hiring was 1st dr was hired thru AEG. What is the validity of contract legally? Written or oral or partially written or partially oral.. Oral contracts are just as valid –

One of the people who said they contracted CM did behest of Michael ..is Wooley, discussion of provisions w Murray Back and forth with CM - 150K was the term to be MJ physician. No provision that prevented AEG from letting MJ hire his own dr. they assumed the responsibility when they brought CM into the fold... doesn’t matter he was MJ long time dr.. who cares? they say NO written, MJ didn’t sign .. but all we have to show is that Murray agreed to terms ..thats all we need to show - that’s the CA law doesn’t matter if MJ said "hire him" or not. but Wooley never talked to MJ Jorrie never talked to MJ.. only Gongaware says so. Murray sends his routing number to get paid May 22nd .. emails from PG asst- "He (CM) is pinging us for paymt-" they wanted to "stall" CM. Murray says I'm continuing my service in good faith in email to Wooley. Wooley says sorry its taking so long .. this is an agreement Jorrie sent final agreement to Murray ..clean pdf.. CM signed june24 and sent it back .independent contract that supercedes any other agrmt. they knew oral agreement and were expecting written to follow .. terms and conduct of agreement are of May 1st .CM is working. EG wont pay people who dont work for them. Implied fact contract means consider the conduct & behavior w/o spoken words. Murray provided services and sends routing number to AEG so this shows thru behavior implied contract.

Chief legal office Trell knew this and they can't get around it. Murray shut down his practices treats MJ from May to June. works AEG suits. All AEG suits contact & met Murray ..so why do that if they didnt hire him. . CM was in budget, housing & resp for MJ rehearsal attendance if its good for them to get their 35 million ..then they have to accept the other responsibility. Emails KO & Wooley resp show content, CM responsible for MJ attendance..IF he wasnt hired why would he be responsible? ever see a promoter in a position to tell a star when they come to rehearsal? Trell says no.. but yet they did. KO had CM phone number to check with him if MJ was coming in.. Why if CM wasnt hired by AEG? PG approved housing too. All of our exhibits of PG approvals for CM hiring- Bush & Faye were already working . . budget footnote ; based on written contract? no explanation was given for that footnote. Hollander finally admited after listening to her depositon ..under "preproduction cost" for 300K for Dr Murray.. contractor work all the time prior to written contract. KO & TPayne was workign wo written contract- oral agreement and implied contract have both been proven and thats all we have to prove. Tohme & Dileo had to sign before they got paid so they could have done the same w Murray,, but they didnt. Can't have it both ways. AEG decided to have a writen contract w CM to Control

Dr. Matheson, sport medicine from Stanford "contract was implied and contract was in force" Any responsible person would admit AEG hired CM. CM was working, he overdosed Michael with propofol .. he was hired ..you must answer First Question with a yes

#2 Was CM incompetent & unfit? CM was unsuitable, unfit, immoral, incomptent ..no training for treating sleeping issues & caused MJ death. throughout his service, any time.. was he unfit .. the answer is YES..he caused the death.
(feed is cut)

u have to decide if AEG acted unreasonabley on all 3 questions. Chef, hotel amenities and such for the artists are expected but is it reasonable for a promoter to hire a dr for the artist. its not done it creates a conflict of interest & risk.. they never brought anyone to say its usual ...so its not reasonable..thats why they dont do it. financial gain ..is the inherent conflict. . dr hiring is a more egregious as the inherent danger to patient. they could have written in the contract that they didnt control CM but they didnt. Fin Gain can make people make decision that they shouldn’t. Money can make people make "insider trading" on Wallstreet all the time so when u put people in a position like that Murray acted in error. Murray attacked KO when he got involved because he was swayed by the money and not the betterment of the patient, MJ. something bad DID happen. CM did not treat his patient ethically .. he swore not to do harm- so why did he do it.. for money- no question.

KO june 14th email to PG- Is RP & FD aware that MJ is missing rehearsals ? PG then sends the "we want to remind him.... " email ... PG wrote the email to KO yet he doesnt RECALL writing the email. Doesnt recall signing a declaration discussing signing the email. PG says Frank Dileo is MJ manager and Conrad Murray is the dr.. but doesnt remember what his email meant "i dont know what i was referring" PG is deflective of understanding his own "We want to remind him (CM) that it is AEG that is paying his (CM) salary..." PG hem hawing on video deposition & nervously hedging in his answers - the AEG attny reads the email numerous times but PG evades answering this would be funny if someone hadn't lost their life in this sitch.. This is a person involved w hiring CM and its incredible. they could have had MJ hire his own dr.. without AEG involvement .. but they didn't- here's the money you go do it.. but they wanted control

CM said I want 5 million dollars.. shouldnt u check him out? clearly a outrageious red flag ... even AEG own witness says it was. Panish: Det Orlando Martinez. Gets a search warrant to Murray's car finds 2 things: Contract & RP card. FINANCIAL GAIN.. The contract stated he was getting 150,000 a month. Motive - own financial gain. Severely distressed finances. Foreclosures, loans, etc. Obvious. Right on those two things immed. AEG - didn't know? Det Smith: Losing house, child support. Financially a mess. Determination - financial gain - LAPD. Because of conflict of interest. Murray violated his oath. Enamoured with MJ. Yes

CM not trained in what MJ required for the TII tour. MJ had not history of heart disease, cardiologist was a mismatch. CM not competent. Unfit and incompetent. June 25 fatal dose 5:45 email insurance broker while giving MJ propofol. First witness the paramedic - did not feel. CM was competent to perform CPR. All dr who Mj asked for propofol never gave it to him. CM did.

Court is in break until 1:30 pm
 
If (when) there is an appeal, what are the chances there'll be another trial with witness testimonies, media coverage, etc?
 
CM not trained in what MJ required for the TII tour. MJ had not history of heart disease, cardiologist was a mismatch. CM not competent. Unfit and incompetent. June 25 fatal dose 5:45 email insurance broker while giving MJ propofol. First witness the paramedic - did not feel. CM was competent to perform CPR. All dr who Mj asked for propofol never gave it to him. CM did.

Panish has so far brought up many valid points imo... but to be fair, yes Murray was a cardiologist and not an expert in insomnia. Even though AEG might have forseen that Michael might have had trouble with prescription medications and that MIGHT affect him this time too, that was not what killed him (arguable if Congaware was aware of MJs sleep issues or not).

I dont believe MJ would have ever hired an expert in insomnia or an anesthesiologist to follow him on the tour, that would've raised some flags,... so Murray was there undercover, nobody knowing what he was doing. It all sounds good to have a heart doc on board.

I also wonder what AEG would have thought if Dr Adams was hired to go on tour, wouldnt they wonder why someone that works with anesthesia is joining them?
 
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