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Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

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Bubs you are too funny.. you have me in stitches but you are so right.. Randy talks out of his a.s all the time.. he said he and MJ were close yet he couldn't remember when he last saw his brother?? how is that close?:unsure: and that Randy claims he was investigating MJ's drug use and throwing bottles out yet he never looked on the prescription bottles to get names of the doctors for his 'investigation'? getting the names would've been paramount into his 'investigation' so he could've reported them to the proper authorities right? and he was so concerned about MJ's drug use, yet his Mother acted clueless about everything. Everyone one of them is such a mess.. Now MJ is dead and they are fighting amongst themselves over his money.. If they would've acted as a loving and cohesive family from the beginning maybe Mike would still be here because they would've banded together to find out his real issues and got him some help.
 
jamba said:
I just read the Jeffrey Adams deposition--wow--what a series of events that seemed so random and yet ended up with the disastrous meeting of MJ and CM via this guy! This guy formed Knockout Security in December 06 and somehow with just having formed this company, with no proven track record, he gets to 'orchestrate" MJ's security when he arrives fro Ireland. Then in Feb o7 he is asked to recommend a dr for the sick kids and send CM over. The guy who asks for the recommendation is a guy called John or Basheer Mohammed. Now presumabley Jeffry Adamas had something to do with this guy b/c he 'orchestrated" MJ's security, and yet in the depo he says he doesn't know the guy's last name! This seems so unorganized and random and not tight and I wonder who decided to hire these people in the first place? Raymone? Who?

Then why is some random security guy that no one knows his last name calling another security guy for a dr recommendation--I mean doesn't MJ know other people in Vegas? He could have called Jack Wishna, the guy who convinced him to return to USA or any number of people--or even someone in his (gulp) family who after all LIVE in Vegas. It all sounds so completely nuts and weird and disorganized.

And then Jeffrey Adams ends up being with CM from MJ's death til his incarceration b/c his dad wanted him to--what about his job? Does he have a family? What about his Knockout Security company?--yes, it was a knockout all right. I am aghast. And he said he couldn't say how much money he earned as being security for CM.

Just seems so weird that someone like MJ should be getting these medical recommendations from his security guards-WHY???
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Jamba this all ties in with what AEG witnesses have said, that there was no management. You did not know who to go to. Randy was very clear about this, and this to me is one of the key reasons AEG took on this contract writing for Micheal. Michael lacked the office staff structure that would make things more orderly.
 
Bubs said:
This is an interesting bit:
CACI no Special 1 Minor's right to sue: Guardian Ad Litem, submitted by defendands.
Because PPB are under age of 18, and are therefore minors, the law requires that an adult bring the suit on their behalf. The adult is called a guardian. In this case, KJ childrens grand-mother, has been named as th guardian for PPB.

I don't know if it effects on jury but defence got KJ to admit that she didn't ask from PPB anything nor did she told them tthat she is sueing AEG.
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There are many interesting points in defenses instructions, but this got my extra attention:
Foreseeability
To determine whether AEG knew or should have known CM's unfitness or incompetence created a particular risk of harm to MJ, one test that is helpful is to ask the question whether or not, if a personof ordinary prudence had been in the same situation and possessed of the same knowledge as AEG, he or she would have foreseen or anticipated that CM might have harmed MJ in the manner that occured here.

That is a good advice to jurors to put themselves into AEG people shoes and think would they have foreseen the danger of CM.
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"In awarding plaintiff's damages, you should consider the amount of money that plaintiffs receive today from MJ companies and MJ's estate in your calculation.Plaintiffs must show that there has been some monetary loss. If plaintiffs are today receiving the same or more money from MJ's estate or MJ companies than they received before his death, there is no monetary loss, and you cannot award them any economic damages. To do so, would result double recovery which is not allowed."

How jurors would be able to determinate if KJ gets more money from MJ's estate now than she got before as AEG wasn't allowed to bring it up during the trial?
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In order for KJ to recover damages, the evidense must establish that she was financially dependent upon MJ for the "necessaries of life"." Necessaries of life are food, clothing, shelter, and medical treatment.
If you find KJ wasn't dependent on MJ for the "NOL" you may not award her any economic or non-economic damages.

That should be interesting as Havenhurt going on foreclosure was brought up during the trial.
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"At least nine jurors must agree on a verdict"

Is this true, 9 out of 12 must agree the same verdict?
What is they don't?
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I see that they put in the last page explanation what General medical needs (as mentioned in CM contract) means.
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Bubs about that money from estate ^^. I remember that AEG had asked Katherine to bring in her accounting many times. What happened to that. The last time the request was made was I think last month. Maybe they might say they have no books, so that AEG does not know exactly how much Katherine was dependent on Michael.

About the medical, I think since Katherine is elderly she gets medicaid. I know it was mentioned in 09 that Joe and Katherine got social security. so if Katherine gets medicaid then she would not have been getting medical from Michael.

Yes 9 has to agree which sounds good to me. I guess if they get less than I, they go back and debate and if they still can't reach a majority that's it. Panish will advise to do over with a new jury.

About this:

The judge told AEG attorneys they cannot ask Katherine Jackson about the damage statement. However, she can be asked about her economic and personal loss.

^^Well AEG asked her these questions already and all she said was that he gave me everything. How are they going to question this women to get some clear answers out of her? Why can't she talk about the damage statement? Is it because he lawyers are the ones who prepare it and not her?

Another delay till Wednesday. Why won't this case end when it is supposed to? It is just as though some gremlin is doing its best to make it live on.
 
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Jackson civil case cut down as trial nears its end

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Posted: Sep 14, 2013 12:38 PM EDT
Updated: Sep 14, 2013 12:38 PM EDT
LOS ANGELES (AP) - A look at key moments this past week in the wrongful death trial in Los Angeles between Michael Jackson's mother and concert giant AEG Live LLC, which is drawing to a close after more than four months of testimony.

THE CASE SO FAR

Jackson's mother, Katherine Jackson, is asking a jury to determine that AEG Live is liable for her son's 2009 death because the company hired and failed to properly investigate Dr. Conrad Murray, who was convicted of involuntary manslaughter by a criminal jury. Her attorneys have presented numerous emails sent by AEG executives expressing concerns about Jackson's health and ability to perform his "This Is It" comeback concerts, as well as messages referencing the $150,000 a month payments Murray was expecting to work on the tour.

AEG denies it hired Murray and points to language in the doctor's contract that required Jackson's signature to make it valid. The singer died before signing. The company has shown jurors testimony from several of Jackson's doctors who have described their treatments on the singer. Some also became friends with Jackson, and a few testified that they were concerned about the singer's use of prescription medications.

More than 50 witnesses have testified over 19 weeks of the trial, including Jackson's mother, his eldest son, his ex-wife Debbie Rowe, and some top AEG Live executives. Several entertainers listed as potential witnesses have not been called, but the trial has provided a behind-the-scenes look at Jackson's life, his meticulous nature and the pain he suffered from injuries sustained while performing.

WHAT HAPPENED THIS PAST WEEK

- A judge dismissed AEG Live executives Paul Gongaware and Randy Phillips from the lawsuit, determining that there hadn't been enough evidence shown to allow jurors to consider whether they are liable for Jackson's death.

- Testimony was halted all week to allow a juror to care for a sick family member. Jurors will not return to the case until Wednesday Sept. 18.

- A judge ruled that AEG Live's attorneys can question Jackson's mother about a statement of damages her attorneys submitted early in the case seeking more than $40 billion. Katherine Jackson's attorneys argue the questioning is unfair because the statement was never filed in court or approved by their client, but was sent in merely to preserve her rights.

WHAT'S NEXT

AEG Live is expected to conclude its case after showing the testimony of Jackson's longtime physician, Dr. Allan Metzger. AEG's lead lawyer has said he intends to call Katherine Jackson to the witness stand. Once AEG's case is over, Katherine Jackson's attorneys plan to call several rebuttal witnesses. Closing arguments from both sides will follow before the case then goes to the jury.



Read more: http://www.myfoxla.com/story/234318...urce=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter#ixzz2et55vT1F
 
A judge ruled that AEG Live's attorneys can question Jackson's mother about a statement of damages her attorneys submitted early in the case seeking more than $40 billion. Katherine Jackson's attorneys argue the questioning is unfair because the statement was never filed in court or approved by their client, but was sent in merely to preserve her rights.


Why call her again? In the bold.


Can someone explain?
 
Bubs said:
From Randy's depo:
He says he was close to MJ, but couldn't recall whether he talked or saw to MJ in 2009?

From his infamous letter:
Our brother told us, in no uncertain terms and without hesitation in the months prior to his death, that he despised both of you and that he did not want either of you to have anything to do with his life or estate for that matter.

and later when MJ was living in Carolwoord, Joe and him tried to call MJ but they were unsuccesful

Typical Randy, talking out of his a.s. I'd like to know, if he didn't talk or couldn't remember seeing MJ in 2009, when MJ told him that he hates Branca & McCain, and don't want them to be in his life or his estate? Btw, if MJ used the word estate, did MJ knew he was going die?
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Too funny, on page 20 he says he was investigating MJ drug use, and when asked how he was investigating it, he repllied: by talking people around MJ, and that person around MJ was Rebbie! Since when Rebbie is known to spend time with MJ? No wonder Rebbie got sick and couln't testify, as religious as she is, to cooperate with Randy's lies, she would have had to lie on stand and a lot:smilerolleyes:
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Another too funny statement from Randy. At the end of his depo he says while they were trying to figure out how to grieve, and even before MJ was buried, Branca and co went to court about wills etc:rofl:

Randy forgot that, 4 days after MJ's death (MJ still in morgue),KJ was the first one in court telling that MJ died intastate and wanted to be nominated as administrator of the estate. Prior even going to court, there must have had talk within family who would be the most like person to be nominated and according to Randy's infamous letter, they were aware of MJ had will, so there must have been some plotting and talking prior going to court. So I suppose "grieve" in Jacksonese has a different meaning.
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Bubs, I don't think we will ever know everything about this trial, sadly. But I do think that Michael had an idea that he may not make it. I read somewhere a while back (can't recall where I read it) that, Michael was in bed and called for Paris and told her words to the effect, 'please don't be mad at daddy if I don't make it/live to see Father's Day'. I wish I could remember where I had read it, but those words stuck in my mind.

Personally, from what I have read over the last 4 years, I don't think it is Michael that the Jacksons are grieving for - need I say more......?
 
Beshlie said:
Bubs, I don't think we will ever know everything about this trial, sadly. But I do think that Michael had an idea that he may not make it. I read somewhere a while back (can't recall where I read it) that, Michael was in bed and called for Paris and told her words to the effect, 'please don't be mad at daddy if I don't make it/live to see Father's Day'. I wish I could remember where I had read it, but those words stuck in my mind.

Personally, from what I have read over the last 4 years, I don't think it is Michael that the Jacksons are grieving for - need I say more......?
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I hadn't heard this particular quote but Paris also told Ellen that MJ said somehting like--"I won't always be here so remember what I told you"--and she said at the show "I remember everything," so I agree on some level he had a premonition.
 
I'm not sure I agree with Michael having a premonition about dying. The notes about his plans for the future contradict that ideology, the movies, the money Michael would make. The lessons Michael had learned about finances, including signing checks for anything over $5000. Michael made these notes as reminder's.

Michael's legacy with his children would dictate what their father verbally told them, a kind of oral history.
 
Petrarose said:
Jamba this all ties in with what AEG witnesses have said, that there was no management. You did not know who to go to. Randy was very clear about this, and this to me is one of the key reasons AEG took on this contract writing for Micheal. Michael lacked the office staff structure that would make things more orderly.
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Agree 100%. This is precisely why I believe, despite all the nasty gossips that went on behind MJ back, AEG was actually trying to help MJ . MJ world was just too chaotic. he could barely function not because of his chronic illness but because of the chaotic scenes that always preceded him. By getting involved with payroll/HR matters AEG was trying to streamline processes, establish a legitimate way of doing things, and thereby inject some order and for good measures some much needed sense of sanity.

I doubt people who were working for MJ were even getting payslips. Things were just so unorthodox.
 
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Beshlie said:
Bubs, I don't think we will ever know everything about this trial, sadly. But I do think that Michael had an idea that he may not make it. I read somewhere a while back (can't recall where I read it) that, Michael was in bed and called for Paris and told her words to the effect, 'please don't be mad at daddy if I don't make it/live to see Father's Day'. I wish I could remember where I had read it, but those words stuck in my mind.

Personally, from what I have read over the last 4 years, I don't think it is Michael that the Jacksons are grieving for - need I say more......?
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Didn't MJ had premonition that he was going to be shot during the 2005 trial, and premonition that he'll die on stage that somebody shoots him? I have read in many occasition that he said that "they " are out to kill him, and other things, but we can be never sure whether he really "knew" or was he just being paranoid?

The only thing that makes this family bow down and grieve is when mighty ol' $ leaves their pocket or there isn't enough $ in their pockets. Never mind whether that $ was theirs to beginning with.
 
jamba;3903997 said:
I hadn't heard this particular quote but Paris also told Ellen that MJ said somehting like--"I won't always be here so remember what I told you"--and she said at the show "I remember everything," so I agree on some level he had a premonition.
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I think it was If I die tomorrow, remember what I told you.
One of the american fans said it was common expression, something she could say to her children to make them stop fighting.
I don´t know how common the expression is but it seems like it´s far more people than Michael that used it.
We all know we are going to die one day but even if you are really sick, dying, I think you don´t expect to die tomorrow.
We know it happens but don´t think it will happen to us, not now, not tomorrow but much later.

Michael was a famous person , accused for being a child molester.
He was a target for crazy persons, there were always the possibility that someone would kill him.
One of the Billie Jean`s could have became furious if she saw Michael with a woman,she could have a gun in the purse and try to kill him.
 
AliCat said:
I'm not sure I agree with Michael having a premonition about dying. The notes about his plans for the future contradict that ideology, the movies, the money Michael would make. The lessons Michael had learned about finances, including signing checks for anything over $5000. Michael made these notes as reminder's.

Michael's legacy with his children would dictate what their father verbally told them, a kind of oral history.
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Interesting, never heard about that. Can you tell me more, especially about the signing the checks?
 
how do you guys think Katherine will act this time when AEG calls her to the stand?
 
jaydom7;3904576 said:
how do you guys think Katherine will act this time when AEG calls her to the stand?
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IMO she will intensify the poor, frail old lady act and pour on the waterworks. I’m expecting her to go for an academy award because this is her last chance to get the juries sympathy. She will probably pass out from “grief”. JMO.
 
Victory22;3904681 said:
IMO she will intensify the poor, frail old lady act and pour on the waterworks. I’m expecting her to go for an academy award because this is her last chance to get the juries sympathy. She will probably pass out from “grief”. JMO.
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I agree Victory! I see an academy award performance from her while she once again doesn't remember anything and had no idea about anything as usual...
 
marebear said:
I think she will get defensive.
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that's possible too especially if he asks her probing questions. I would really like to know her opinion on how MJ looked to her when she saw him June 2009.. Did she think he was too thin and looked frail?
 
she'll get defensive, that's how she was the last time around.
 
AliCat said:
I'm not sure I agree with Michael having a premonition about dying. The notes about his plans for the future contradict that ideology, the movies, the money Michael would make. The lessons Michael had learned about finances, including signing checks for anything over $5000. Michael made these notes as reminder's.

Michael's legacy with his children would dictate what their father verbally told them, a kind of oral history.
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Ali I don't believe that either. I don't understand why people remove statements from the context they were made in. First, Paris said she was fighting/fussing with her brothers, and Michael told her something, which I might add my mom told all of us at one time or the other. Michael told her not to fight because I would not be here all the time and you have to watch out for your bothers ( I am paraphrasing). I heard Paris say this somewhere, and I remember she added something about the brothers. This does not mean he knew Muarry would kill him or he would die soon. Likewise my mom told us this and she is still alive and is over 80 years.

This other story about him calling the children, I am not going to believe it at the moment, unless it is another conversation that people take out of context to fit in to some premonition idea.

About how Katherine will act: Well she will start off sweet, cry, and look sad as before. Then as before, when the questions really focus on the case, e.g., why she filed, how much money Michael gave her, did she find out yet what happened to her son, then the true Katherine will come out; and she will say, as before, that she will not answer that, remain quiet and not respond, or become sharp with him. Actually I don't understand how she refuses to answer and the judge never said anything. The judge did not say, Mrs. Jackson you have to respond unless you are taking the 5th. This judge is just giving AEG more for an appeal.

You have AEG afraid of insisting because they don't want to be seen as badgering someone over 80. So what is the point of them questioning her again if they can't get any answers from her?
 
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Victory22, many posts here tended to have a somewhat supportive slant towards the Jackson family. Hopefully your post brought some clarity.

Pminton, in reply to your question: I believe the defense wants to question Katherine again to gain attention in the form of media headlines. Will they be able to show it is more than likely this trial is an extortion plot? Well, have they shown it is more than likely Michael was a secretive addict?

I believe the true question is not how Katherine will react but, how commanding the defense can be. Michael’s mother has not portrayed herself as a woman who can be controlled on the stand by a lawyer’s line of questioning. The defense will indeed get headlines using Katherine as their last witness. However, will the defense get the headlines they desire?

They are taking a risk and many risks they took during this trial (and during TII’s preproduction) did not result in the outcome they were hoping for. I believe they should reassess this move or be extremely cautious.

ackson side has filed a motion asking judge to prevent AEG from mentioning the dismissal of the defendants as it could "confuse the jury" and they want a jury instruction that tells the jurors not to speculate why a person is no longer involved in the case.

AEG has filed a reply saying they have no intention of mentioning such and according to rules both parties cannot mention successful / unsuccessful motions to the jury.
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The plaintiffs now have in writing the defense will make no such attempt. Great news.
 
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Bubs said:
Didn't MJ had premonition that he was going to be shot during the 2005 trial, and premonition that he'll die on stage that somebody shoots him? I have read in many occasition that he said that "they " are out to kill him, and other things, but we can be never sure whether he really "knew" or was he just being paranoid?
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Or people just make up or twist and embellish things to be able to sell a dramatic sounding story...

I can easily imagine him fearing that some crazy lunatic would try something - it's not like the media had not turned people against him and who knows what a crazy person would try. But I hate it when people call it paranoia. John Lennon was killed by a crazy fan and he wasn't even trashed, bashed and dehumanized by the media like Michael was. Or is anyone familiar with the story of Roscoe Arbuckle - an actor from the 1920 who in many ways was dragged through the mud very similarly to Michael? Here it is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roscoe_Arbuckle

Well, someone tried to shoot Arbuckle's wife who supported him during his trial:

Arbuckle was then arrested on the charges of manslaughter, but arranged bail after nearly three weeks in jail. The first trial began on November 14, 1921 in the city courthouse in downtown San Francisco.[SUP][1][/SUP] Arbuckle's defence lawyer was Mr Dominquez. The principal witness was Ms Zay Prevost, a guest at the party.[SUP][22][/SUP] At the beginning of the trial Arbuckle told his already-estranged wife, Minta Durfee, that he did not harm Rappe; she believed him and appeared regularly in the courtroom to support him. Public feeling was so negative that she was later shot at while entering the courthouse.[SUP][20][/SUP]
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So it's not as far-fetched and "paranoid" to have worries about such things, especially in Michael's situation. It doesn't mean he lived his life in constant fear of being shot and killed and I think such accounts are overdramatized - and not without an agenda either, because many times when people talk about MJ's alleged fears of being killed they usually hint at his death not being an accident and you know where that leads to.
 
Paranoid wasn't perfect choice of word, don't get stuck on it as it wasn't the point.


Btw, John Lennon was bashed in the media, not when he died, but prior. He too got his share of bad press.
 
Bubs said:
Paranoid wasn't perfect choice of word, don't get stuck on it as it wasn't the point.


Btw, John Lennon was bashed in the media, not when he died, but prior. He too got his share of bad press.
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Nowhere near Michael though.
 
Bubs said:
Didn't MJ had premonition that he was going to be shot during the 2005 trial, and premonition that he'll die on stage that somebody shoots him? I have read in many occasition that he said that "they " are out to kill him, and other things, but we can be never sure whether he really "knew" or was he just being paranoid?

The only thing that makes this family bow down and grieve is when mighty ol' $ leaves their pocket or there isn't enough $ in their pockets. Never mind whether that $ was theirs to beginning with.
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I do remember hearing about him starting to wear a bullet proof vest, I think it was around the time of the trial. Maybe there had been threats?
 
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