Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

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Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

The problem is his discoid lupus is in his medical record and one of the witness KJ has already said he had discoid lupus.

thanks, Shelly.

i think we're making too much of that reporter's remark about lupus, he is not a doctor and probably doesn't know much about the illness, and probably interpreted Christopher's words. MJ had lupus , Christopher would not deny that. We would need to the transcripts, it depends on how the question was asked, I think what Christopher said just means that lupus was not a factor in what happened in 2009.
Christopher didn't see anything that he, as a coroner, could relate to lupus. It doesn't mean Michael didn't have it, it means there was no sign of it at autopsy, which is normal, according to what was posted earlier.

My question was, how does demerol withdrawal help the family ?
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Family are pushing the theory that mj was an addict and aeg should have known. so to say mjs state at the rehearsals was due to drugs rather than any illness including lupus helps their case.
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Family are pushing the theory that mj was an addict and aeg should have known. so to say mjs state at the rehearsals was due to drugs rather than any illness including lupus helps their case.
oh, ok I see, thank you
 
i think whether mj suffered from lupus / what form of lupus / any other autoimmune disease / and what his lung condition means in this respect could be important to determine life expectancy.

note these people on the witness list:

Frederic B. Askin

Dr. Frederic Askin is a pathologist at Johns Hopkins Hospital. His "particular field of interest is adult and pediatric lung disease… Dr. Askin is frequently consulted for his expertise in both developmental and acquired pediatric lung disease and in pulmonary pathology in the adult patient. He has authored numerous articles on pulmonary disease, contributed to a number of textbooks on the subject, and co-authored two editions of The Surgical Pathology of Non-Neoplastic Lung Diseases. He teaches a course on lung pathology for organizations such as the American College of Chest Physicians and the American Thoracic Society. Additionally, he is one of a relatively small number of specialists with an interest in both non-neoplastic and neoplastic lung diseases. Among the former disorders are interstitial pneumonias, sarcoid, hypersensitivity reactions in the lung and pulmonary involvement in collagen vascular diseases, such as lupus or rheumatoid arthritis."

http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...and-AEG-Live?p=3787501&viewfull=1#post3787501


Daniel J. Wallace, MD

Wallace is a rheumatologist. Rheumatologist acts as an expert witness in all aspects of autoimmune disease, arthritis, rheumatic diseases. Lupus expert.

http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...ne-Jackson-and-AEG-Live?p=3787478#post3787478


statement from Wallace sent on a lupus board:

7/1/09

The following message from Lupus expert Daniel Wallace was forwarded to us today:

Dear Colleagues:

I can confirm that Michael Jackson had vitiligo and discoid (chronic cutaneous lupus) and never had systemic disease that played any role in his passing. I am concerned that some commentators are relating that a background of abuse has anything to do with lupus. There has never been a peer reviewed published article that specifically has shown this in lupus. Thanks Dan Wallace MD
Clinical Professor of Medicine Cedars-Sinai Medical Center/David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA

http://cure4lupus.org/store/index.php?main_page=page&id=208&chapter=2


also note the family asked for x-rays and pathology slides; the x-rays could be about mj's lungs, s. this post from ivy:

finally the documents for the request from the coroner has been posted. There's not much written arguments that the media hasn't reported. I have some minor additions

- they ask for photographs, x-rays and pathology slides
- they say those will be marked confidential.

http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...April-2-2013?p=3776358&viewfull=1#post3776358
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

If the oldest children did not want to participate in this trial they would not be. They could be removed from those proceedings IF they wanted to. There is no coercion or conflict of interest and they are being protected. They may feel reluctant about the situation overall (as even adults are) but, they are committed to participating as we have seen.

ITA...the children are participating because they want to. I believe MJ definitely said negative things about AEG and they believe in this suit. But they also absolutely adore their grandmother, and would not go against her on it. Jermaine & Co put them through hell last year with worry, but within a day or so, they were right by Mrs. Jackson side attending the Unity Concert. I suspect the last thing they wanted to do was see Jermaine up on stage swiveling his hips. They were there because she wanted them to be there.

There is no documented proof that any Jackson sibling is behind this lawsuit. The siblings showing support for their mother and their nephews and niece in public is not the same as admitting they are the masterminds behind the so-called extortion plot against AEG.


I wouldn't say the siblings were "masterminds" about anything. But to think Mrs. Jackson has not been influenced by them into this suit is unrealistic. Their plotting could have completely caused her to lose custody of PPB, but there she was on national television, reading statements prepared by them, supporting everything they did. It was only in a court of law where she was forced to backpedal.

Of course, she is reacting to their rantings about AEG with this suit.


Anthony McCartney ?@mccartneyAP 1h
It's impossible to know, but wondering how jury reconciles description of relatively healthy Jackson with portrayal in openings of addict MJ

elke hassell ?@ElkeHassell 2h
@mccartneyAP So you have problems as well with the whole thing?

Now isn't that interesting. Well, maybe, MJ wasn't this raging addict after all. But someone with chronic insomnia who trusted the wrong doctor.

Re Palazuelos, here is some info re her area of expertise when she was an assistant attorney in the US Attorney's office in Ca since 1990--before Gov. Gray Davis appointed her to be a Superior Court Judge in 2000:

Palazuelos, 37, specializes in prosecuting large-scale narcotics traffickers and money launderers. She has won five special achievement awards from the U.S. Department of Justice and two certificates of appreciation from the Drug Enforcement Administration.

http://articles.latimes.com/2000/jun/17/local/me-41839

Much thanks for this info. This explains some things for me. Her career has been immersed in drugs and she thinks everyone is corruptible by them and cash, from doctors to concert promoters, and is willing to believe the worse of anyone who takes them, regardless of reason.
 
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Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

I find it interesting that no one is pointing out that Rogers said that there were NO DRUGS-street or otherwise- in Michael's body EXCEPT what the MURDERER, Conrad Murray INJECTED into him. I don't care about the "lupus" statement. The MORE important FACT that needs to be SPREAD to the media and everywhere else is that Michael was NOT an addict. The media seems to WANT Michael to be an "addict" and conveniently IGNORES what Rogers testified to. This"message" needs to be tweeted, e-mailed to the media. gossip whores like Friedman and others.


It is interesting indeed. It is not only tabloids or media that are pushing MJ being drug addict, there are some fans on this very same board that agree with them.

It is interesting that Michael lower back artiritis gets no attetion at all.
My partner had that for last 10 years, and I can tell you it is so painful and he HAD to take pain medicine for it, and he couldn't cope without any relief that painkillers offered. It was so bad that he was operated for few times, it is better now but he will never live his life without the pain. Do I consider him as an addict, no. If Michael experienced same pain to his back as my partner, in my books, he ain't addict either.

I did a little search for lower back arthiritis, first link to come up: http://orthopedics.about.com/od/lowbacklumbarcondition/a/spinearthritis.htm
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

The media wont change. we all know this info isnt new but when u have the family and aeg pushing the druggie lie. the media arent going to complain
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

thanks, Shelly.

i think we're making too much of that reporter's remark about lupus, he is not a doctor and probably doesn't know much about the illness, and probably interpreted Christopher's words. MJ had lupus , Christopher would not deny that. We would need to the transcripts, it depends on how the question was asked, I think what Christopher said just means that lupus was not a factor in what happened in 2009.
Christopher didn't see anything that he, as a coroner, could relate to lupus. It doesn't mean Michael didn't have it, it means there was no sign of it at autopsy, which is normal, according to what was posted earlier.

My question was, how does demerol withdrawal help the family ?

I was talking about the letter from Dr Wallace, we'll see if he testifed what he has to say about that.
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

When he said no signs of lupus I am sure he meant no sign on the organs of Lupus. Lupus, causes organ problems ESP with the heart. Michael had a mild form of lupus. And BTW I just had to send the Tom Joyner morning show some tweets just now. I am driving to work and they were talking about the trial and Tom Joyner asked what does Michael having cosmetic tattooing have to do with the trial? Then he said poor Mrs. Jackson I was like what in hell? It was her lawyer who showed the damn PIC and went into all of that detail. I almost lost it. People thinking she is all sweet and innocent screw that
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

^^ I agree, it's her name as plaintiffs and those lawyers talking on her behalf. So no poor Ms Jackson from me either.
 
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Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

i think whether mj suffered from lupus / what form of lupus / any other autoimmune disease / and what his lung condition means in this respect could be important to determine life expectancy.

Thanks for posting. So do you guys think the Jacksons will be seeking to minimize any effect these issues had on his life in order to extend how long they want to claim he lived? That would be so low if they did, wow...

Metzger is also on the list, I know he's in my dog house after his alleged involvement in grannygate, but I do want to hear him testify about MJ's lupus as he's the doctor listed treating him for it back in the 1984 records.

Is the media really talking about cosmetic tattooing? This is all old old old. I wonder why the media never asks why a man they insist was so determined to bleach out all his pigment went to such great pains to tattoo the stuff back on, or how a man who had to forcibly bleach the pigment from all his skin could achieve the same effect on his lips only to seek to get it back on? But of course not, we just get Freak MJ All The Time Radio. Thanks, Jacksons.

Worst. Family. Ever.
 
la_cienega;3818919 said:
Thanks for posting. So do you guys think the Jacksons will be seeking to minimize any effect these issues had on his life in order to extend how long they want to claim he lived? That would be so low if they did, wow...

Metzger is also on the list, I know he's in my dog house after his alleged involvement in grannygate, but I do want to hear him testify about MJ's lupus as he's the doctor listed treating him for it back in the 1984 records.

Is the media really talking about cosmetic tattooing? This is all old old old. I wonder why the media never asks why a man they insist was so determined to bleach out all his pigment went to such great pains to tattoo the stuff back on? But of course not, we just get Freak MJ All The Time Radio. Thanks, Jacksons.

Worst. Family. Ever.

They are claiming despite MJ being drug addict (as per their lawyers opening speech) since 84, Michael was going to live ripe old age 250, and doing concerts with siblings rest of his life. They say MJ was only abusing pain medicine but not street drugs, so he was going to live for ever.
But the above doesn't go with their statements that they were so worried about MJ abusing drugs that they staged many "interventions". If they were so worried about Michael's drug use that they saw he was in need for intervention, they cannot claim he was going to live long life?

I see this as contradiction:
Anthony McCartney ‏@mccartneyAP 13h
Koskoff was about to introduce a table showing the life expectancy for a healthy 50-year-old man in California when AEG requested a sidebar.

At his opening statement Jackson’s attorney Panish heavily focused on MJ’s prescription medicine addiction (AP). Jackson’s lawyer Panish stated MJ had developed a problem with prescription medication and at times became “dependent” on the drugs. Panish said MJ’s drug problem started in 1984 when MJ suffered second and third-degree burns while filming a Pepsi commercial. (LATimes)

Unless they claim Michael was healthy drug addict?





I would really loved to see one article where journalist explains that vitiligo takes away all color, even from lips, but that is so boring to compare bleaching - tattoing etc.
 
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Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

They are claiming dispite MJ being drug addict (as per their lawyers opening speech) since 84, Michael was going to live happily ever after and doing concerts with siblings ripe old age 250:)

I would really loved to see one article where journalist explains that vitiligo takes away all color, even from lips, but that is so boring to compare bleaching - tattoing etc.
It's so obvious, it's so frustrating. Why would he need to get cosmetic tattoos, I wish they'd let themselves think about that question even for a second. Speak to the TV presenter Lee Thomas about it or something. They never do.

Good question about his drug use and life expectancy. The Jacksons have truly shot themselves in the face with this whole lawsuit. I just wish they public could realize that.
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

It's so obvious, it's so frustrating. Why would he need to get cosmetic tattoos, I wish they'd let themselves think about that question even for a second. Speak to the TV presenter Lee Thomas about it or something. They never do.

Good question about his drug use and life expectancy. The Jacksons have truly shot themselves in the face with this whole lawsuit. I just wish they public could realize that.

By reading comments in various media outlets, seemingly public realizes why this lawsuit was filed.


@Autumn II
"For those who think that Katherine thought this one up all by herself, entirely by her own initiative -- there's a bridge in Brooklyn that I hear is for sale that you might want to look into buying?"

So funny but true.
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Thanks for posting. So do you guys think the Jacksons will be seeking to minimize any effect these issues had on his life in order to extend how long they want to claim he lived? That would be so low if they did, wow..
--------------------

yes aswell as contridict themselves by saying demoral etc caused the side effects instead of any illnesses and or diprivan.
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

By reading comments in various media outlets, seemingly public realizes why this lawsuit was filed.


@Autumn II
"For those who think that Katherine thought this one up all by herself, entirely by her own initiative -- there's a bridge in Brooklyn that I hear is for sale that you might want to look into buying?"


So funny but true.

imo they know very well whos behind the lawsuit. the evidence is as clear as day but as family supporters its all about defending the family regardless of the evidence. u know like mj was a raving druggie who had nothing in his system etc other that what murray gave. why let the evidence get in the way of an agenda
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

A few things.

Saying the "children are well-adjusted" and therefore "wanted this trial" is not a logical conclusion. Those same intelligent, well-adjusted children might NOT have wanted the trial due to being able to foresee the incredibly personal information that would be revealed about their very private father, and they may have had the intelligence and "adjustment" to realize that he'd be thrown under the bus. It's true that they may have heard Michael say negative things about AEG. They ALSO must have heard him say negative things about some of his family members. Bottom-line is, we do not KNOW what they "want/support." We simply do not. When Prince reaches 18, MAYBE we will know, but until the kids reach adulthood, we can only speculate, with no basis in much else.

I agree we do not know want they want/support, but we do know they saw their father change with his commitment to do this concert. They saw him happy about it initially, but then saw the doctor coming to see him almost daily for weeks, saw him dropping weight alarmingly fast, saw him not well, heard him say something supposedly about being thought of as a machine. Then their father dies, and they are surrounded by the only family they feel they have remaining telling them it was due to AEG.

They might not have wanted to go through the actual process of a trial, but I do think they believe AEG are culpable for their father no longer being with them and should be held accountable. And if their grandmother tells them that this trial is the only recourse to achieve that accountability, they support her. But as you say, it is all speculative.

For those who think that Katherine thought this one up all by herself, entirely by her own initiative -- there's a bridge in Brooklyn that I hear is for sale that you might want to look into buying?

Yep.


I fault the JUDGE for allowing in so much irrelevant and highly personal information, and just for an example, a "lips tattoo" has no bearing on this civil case. The focus of the trial is actually very narrow, but the information brought in is broad, and is TMI, IMHO.

Totally agree. The focus is very narrow. That's why I was shocked at first that the trial was going to last three months, but now I see that everything and anything is going to be brought up, relevant or not.

All those who've said, "wait until the TRUTH comes out!" need to sit down now, including certain family members, and Karen Faye. If any of those folks had any evidence or proofs of nefarious actions (other than or in addition to Murray), they should have brought it to the police. Four years later, there has been nothing. . . .NOTHING. This trial sure ain't it.

It sure ain't.
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

It's so obvious, it's so frustrating. Why would he need to get cosmetic tattoos, I wish they'd let themselves think about that question even for a second. Speak to the TV presenter Lee Thomas about it or something. They never do.

Good question about his drug use and life expectancy. The Jacksons have truly shot themselves in the face with this whole lawsuit. I just wish they public could realize that.

The autopsy confirmed that he had tattoos. Lips, hairline and tattooed eye liner.
 
StellaJackson;3818935 said:
The autopsy confirmed that he had tattoos. Lips, hairline and tattooed eye liner.
she was not questioning if he had them, she is asking others to look at the reason why. So she mentioned ask lee Thomas . (Vitiligo)

I don't think we need to explain away or make excuses for why MJ had cosmentic tattoos. He was a celebrity in the public eye, there could be many reasons he felt the need for cosmetic tattoos, including the ones below. Also Ive found various references that Elizabeth Taylor had her eyebrows, eyeliner and lips lined with cosmetic tattoos. There are probably more celebrities than we know. No matter what the reason MJ wanted to have the tattoos, its all good.. even he didn't have vitiligo. By fans being so defensive over them, I get the feeling they are ashamed of the tattoos unless they can explain them away with vitiligo. Yes maybe because of vitiligo or maybe for convenience. It doesn't matter why IMO

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Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

The problem is his discoid lupus is in his medical record and one of the witness KJ has already said he had discoid lupus.

I"d like to see these records that state Michael has lupus. His autopsy makes no mention of it whatsoever. I don't think I've ever seen any real evidence of it.
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Let me try something. There are at least 10 different kinds of lupus. The mildest would be one that effects the skin the most dangerous one would be the one that effects the organs. Michael had a very mild kind and his organs were not effected hence why the autopsy did not show any sings of lupus
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

I"d like to see these records that state Michael has lupus. His autopsy makes no mention of it whatsoever. I don't think I've ever seen any real evidence of it.

The medical documents which were recently leaked about his Pepsi burn accident mentioned his lupus in the context that Dr. Arnold Klein advised the docs who treated MJ for the burn to not to use a certain medicine because that would interfere with Michael's lupus treatment.

I wonder if this Dr. Wallace, who will testify, treated Michael for it, because he stated definitely in that comment that he could "confirm" that MJ had vitiligo and discoid lupus. We will see.
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

I"d like to see these records that state Michael has lupus. His autopsy makes no mention of it whatsoever. I don't think I've ever seen any real evidence of it.

It was in the 1984 medical records and it clearly said discoid Lupus.
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

even though I don't see civil trials as justice , I'm not against anyone - including Jacksons to pursue a civil wrongful death lawsuit.

The thing that doesn't sit well with me is - not asking restitution from Murray and not suing Murray as well.

Reportedly Katherine in her statement said the reasons for not suing Murray (or suing AEG) was financial.

What I don't get it is, if this is truly about "justice" and "the truth" who cares if Murray would be able to pay or not.

If this has been a lawsuit against Murray + AEG, my approach would have been a whole a lot different.
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Let me try something. There are at least 10 different kinds of lupus. The mildest would be one that effects the skin the most dangerous one would be the one that effects the organs. Michael had a very mild kind and his organs were not effected hence why the autopsy did not show any sings of lupus

How do we know it was a mild kind?

Also, can someone please point me to a copy of the records that state lupus.
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

even though I don't see civil trials as justice , I'm not against anyone - including Jacksons to pursue a civil wrongful death lawsuit.

The thing that doesn't sit well with me is - not asking restitution from Murray and not suing Murray as well.

Reportedly Katherine in her statement said the reasons for not suing Murray (or suing AEG) was financial.

What I don't get it is, if this is truly about "justice" and "the truth" who cares if Murray would be able to pay or not.

If this has been a lawsuit against Murray + AEG, my approach would have been a whole a lot different.

I thought they couldn't pursue both?
 
Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

You hear anything about organ damage?
 
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