Latest on MJJC

Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

Status
Not open for further replies.
twinklEE said:
Hound those three children relentlessly that's what they are going to do, and Steven will be the ring leader. There are doubts in my mind that his children will have to suffer and pay one way or the other.
Click to expand...

I hope these kids learn how to be hard asses. Something I wish Michael was
 
ivy said:
Yes and I said that. If Michael had money coming in from TII and used it to pay the principal of the loan, his credit score would get better and he would be able to negotiate a better interest rate. Plus as the principal was being paid the interest amount would decrease as well. So yeah absolutely a steady income used to pay back the loans would make the debt / interest situation a lot better.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I didn't see you said that part. Makes sense.
 
twinklEE said:
Stevanna completed her under graduate studies last year, I don't think she is working already, if she is still there to go to Grad school it would make sense.
Click to expand...

I remembered reading something about her Harvard payment in LSA and dug it out:)
Somebody posted this so I don't know if this is true or not:
"Someone (a fan) made a smart comment about Michael paying for her tuition/education. She told the fan "Michael didn't pay for anything, he was not responsible for my education." She said her mama paid for her education, lol. I was kinda surprised she didn't say "Uncle Mike" because I know most of his nieces and nephews call him "Uncle Mike.""

Where would her mother Eliza get the money to pay her Harvard education as Randy wasn't paying anything?
So it must have come from MJ?

What reason would the estate have in order to pay Randy's daughter's education?
Maybe it is little Blanket and he is well ahead of his time:)
 
Petrarose said:
Bubs what is this medicine. It seems to be something to help with anxiety, because Cascio mention "to help prepare for the show." I wonder why he would be anxious about the show though? Then, he says the new doctor came the night of the first concert. Then, the family talked to Michael a couple of days before the show. How many shows were there for MSG?

OK so Dr. F working well with Michel, then Michael goes to New York, and he relapses. Frank claims the doc and himself could not babysit Michael anymore. That to me is a big problem. I understand the doc had a life, but he should have found a reliable & loyal person to keep Michael in check. Someone who would call him each day & see how he is doing. When you are treating any addiction, you simple do not leave the person high and dry with no support. Frank was not the right person, because he had other things to do.

Frank calling the family was not the right thing, because he KNEW Michael does not listen to them. You can't ask someone to help another, if the person in need of help does not recognize the authority of the helper. He needed to call someone Michael holds in high esteem & who Micahel would listen to, and we all know who that is.

Another question: Why did Michael relapse in New York? Is it that doing this show with the brothers was stressing him out? What was going on at that time that acted as a trigger? That is another problem with Dr. F. He was supposed to question Micahel and find out what situations acted as a trigger (he found out about Michael problem on the internet.). Then, he had to work with Michael with these triggers, because if he does not, when the situations occur again, the first thing the patient will do is look for the old methods of dealing with it, which is exactly what Michael did--Frank claims he went back to the same medicine.

It seems there was no plan in place. I get the feeling too that Frank and family would simple say Michel don't take that, go to rehab, or ask if he is on something, but non of them had a plan to help. No brother/sister said, let me call him each day, let me text him some daily support messages, etc. We don't hear that, and to me it is this form of person-oriented daily support that really helps. I think that is what Micheal needed, and I hope if I get into a situation like that, my family or close friends will be calling or emailing daily to check up on me. I notice something about Michel, and that is if he does not want you in his business he will say everything is OK. He did it to his family, to Kenny.
Click to expand...






You bring out alots of good points in your post. Michael was having a problem no one could help him no one was there. If it was not for Elizabeth taking Michael to reab i don't think Michael would have know that he had a problem with painkiller as he said to world that he did abn i also agree with Frank was not the answer and neither was Michael family.


I wonder how many time did Michael family just call and say hello we love you is everything okay how are you feeling today how are the kids doing things like that i am sure Michael want to hear that instead you got from him family some kind of money deal and Michael was tried of that.

I agree with you there was no plan in place to help Michael throught these rough time in his life. And he felt he could not trust anybody he was alone and he did what he needing to do.

IMO there was no love or concern for Michael from his family if their all just had work together their coild have save Michael life that why i don't believe what Randy is saying because if the love and the concern was there this family could have pull together and supporting Michael love is so important in a famliy it is what makes a family grow.
 
Regarding Harvard I believe AEG argues even if MJ sent his kids to the best university Harvard , bought them the most luxurious car at 16 ( BMW), that would be far less than what Erks estimated as expenses . Ackerman took all these things into consideration when he came to the figures he testifies to . Indeed most of MJ's spending was on aying interests and debts , he was not speanding hndredsof millions on Katherine , himself and the kids .

Anthony McCartney ‏@mccartneyAP 1h
When Ackerman took the stand _ 48 minutes after the jury was ordered to be at the courthouse _ he brought 2 large boxes of documents.
Expand
Anthony McCartney ‏@mccartneyAP 1h
... children might be entitled to. Judge also said AEG shouldn’t show an image of Carrolwood mansion to reflect the Jacksons’ housing.
Expand
Anthony McCartney ‏@mccartneyAP 1h
For instance, the judge told AEG to take out slides showing a BMW and the Harvard logo. AEG said those were things Jackson's ... (cont)
Click to expand...


Anthony McCartney ‏@mccartneyAP 3m
The bottom line figure of his projection was $21.5 million dollars for Jackson’s mother and children if MJ had lived for 15 ½ years past ‘09
Expand
Anthony McCartney ‏@mccartneyAP 3m
Ackerman made no projection of how long MJ’s life-expectancy would have been, but projected out his likely level of support for 15 years.
Expand
Anthony McCartney ‏@mccartneyAP 3m
Part of his analysis involved estimating Katherine Jackson’s life expectancy until about age 89 based on a table used in court proceedings.
Expand
Anthony McCartney ‏@mccartneyAP 3m
Ackerman then went into another set of figures, which were projected levels of support based on risk calculations he said are commonly made.
Expand
Anthony McCartney ‏@mccartneyAP 4m
The slides showed how much was spent on security, schooling, utilities, food and other expenses for Katherine & the kids.
Expand
Anthony McCartney ‏@mccartneyAP 5m
The consultant gave detailed breakdowns of how he arrived at those figures for the jury through various slides showing payment breakdowns.
Expand
Anthony McCartney ‏@mccartneyAP 5m
The $3.5 million figure was Ackerman’s estimate of support Jackson was providing his family in 2009.
Expand
Anthony McCartney ‏@mccartneyAP 5m
... family at the same level that he had been supporting them. He pegged that figure at about $3.5 million/year for Katherine, MJ’s kids.
Click to expand...


Other
$121,000 per year per child for toys, gifts, clothes, electronics, books, jewelry, boats, places
Expand
ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts 10m
Ackerman said he projected kids to have own cars at 16. He testified he thinks the dream car would be a convertible BMW -- $35k/year/child
Expand
ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts 12m
Auto:
Ackerman said MJ had acquired 2 top of the line Escalades. $42,000 for MJ and 3 children, about $14,000 per child.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts 12m
Security:
$69,000 per child per year

Caretaker:
$22,000 per child per year
Expand
ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts 12m
Travel:
$122,000 per child

Ackerman said MJ would travel by private plane and would rent entire floors of hotels.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts 13m
2013 cost of private university -- $63,000 (Harvard). Ages 18-21. In 2009, it was $51,000. This included tuition and room and board.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts 13m
Education:
Buckley School in 2013 is $36,000 for ages 12-17. In 2009 was $28,000.
Expand
ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts 13m
Chef (Kai Chase) -- $128,000
Utilities -- $64,000
Total Annual Cost -- $1,454,000
25% Allocation per child -- 364,000
Click to expand...
 
ivy said:
I understand that but I don't get the denial about the 5 implants in 2002. forget anything everyone said and just look to the actions. You have Michael fly 10 hours to florida and get an opiate blocker inserted to his body 5 times even after it caused an infection. Who inserts implants and goes through 12 step program if they have no problems and no need for such things? Michael's action alone demonstrative enough to show that he thought he had a problem and he needed to do something about it and he didn't give up.
Click to expand...



I agree with you on that Michael never gave up.
 
Petrarose said:
That is what I think too. I mean if one has talent, and reaches a point where you can't take care of your family, as Ackerman implied when he said Michal would not be able to continue support of the plaintiffs, then it stands to reason that youl would have gone back to work, which he was actually during. The trend analysis leaves no room for change, and is a static type of analysis to me. I know it has value, especially for a person with a steady income, like a nurse, teacher, ceo, but when it comes to someone who could easily make money simply by showing up at a function, touring, merchandising, producing or some other create outlet, I think it is not the best marker of the person's potential in the future. Further, he was about to do just that by doing TII, and writing on paper about the deals where he was going to make a lot of money, so these show his future financial situation was not going to be a replica of his past.
Click to expand...

Exactly. And, because Michael didn't have a job in the traditional sense and his income was based solely on his personal brand and abilities, I'd think forecasting potential income would be almost impossible. TII tickets sold out, but with so many "what-ifs" in play, including his age/ability to complete TII/Wade Robson-like (false) "revelations" the trend analysis based on numbers only don't come close to realistic income.

I also don't understand why Hayvenhurst still had a mortgage on it. Didn't the Jacksons buy that house in 1971 & then Michael paid off that mortgage a few years later & made upgrades to it? Why was there even a mortgage at all on it in 2009?
 
Soundmind said:
Regarding Harvard I believe AEG argues even if MJ sent his kids to the best university Harvard , bought them the most luxurious car at 16 ( BMW), that would be far less than what Erks estimated as expenses . Ackerman took all these things into consideration when he came to the figures he testifies to . Indeed most of MJ's spending was on aying interests and debts , he was not speanding hndredsof millions on Katherine , himself and the kids .
Click to expand...

So is this "2013 cost of private university -- $63,000 (Harvard). Ages 18-21. In 2009, it was $51,000. This included tuition and room and board." hypothetical and after all that fuss, no one is going to Harvard?
 
twinklEE said:
Hound those three children relentlessly that's what they are going to do, and Steven will be the ring leader. There are doubts in my mind that his children will have to suffer and pay one way or the other.
Click to expand...

Who is Steven???

pminton said:
I agree with you on that Michael never gave up.
Click to expand...

That's for sure. That's been the case since he was a little boy, when he had all the pressure of being the lead singer for the J5. It was up to Michael to bring in the money for the family and that's a role the family demanded he play until the day he died. Even in death, they want Michael to support them. How despicable is this family?
 
Last edited:
Bubs;3886548 said:
So is this "2013 cost of private university -- $63,000 (Harvard). Ages 18-21. In 2009, it was $51,000. This included tuition and room and board." hypothetical and after all that fuss, no one is going to Harvard?
Click to expand...

Yes that's my understanding

Anthony McCartney ‏@mccartneyAP 1h
... children might be entitled to. Judge also said AEG shouldn’t show an image of Carrolwood mansion to reflect the Jacksons’ housing.
Expand
Anthony McCartney ‏@mccartneyAP 1h
For instance, the judge told AEG to take out slides showing a BMW and the Harvard logo. AEG said those were things Jackson's ... (cont)
Click to expand...
 
Soundmind;3886542 said:
Regarding Harvard I believe AEG argues even if MJ sent his kids to the best university Harvard , bought them the most luxurious car at 16 ( BMW), that would be far less than what Erks estimated as expenses . Ackerman took all these things into consideration when he came to the figures he testifies to . Indeed most of MJ's spending was on aying interests and debts , he was not speanding hndredsof millions on Katherine , himself and the kids .
Click to expand...

Bubs;3886548 said:
So is this "2013 cost of private university -- $63,000 (Harvard). Ages 18-21. In 2009, it was $51,000. This included tuition and room and board." hypothetical and after all that fuss, no one is going to Harvard?
Click to expand...

I think Jacksons main argument is that not only Michael would make Billions but he would give 40% or more to his mother and kids. I agree with Soundmind that AEG is trying to show even with luxury spending on his kids and mother, he wouldn't not be giving them (or spending on them) hundreds of millions.

and this is the main part " The bottom line figure of his projection was $21.5 million dollars for Jackson’s mother and children if MJ had lived for 15 ½ years past ‘09"

so AEG's argument becomes, even if Michael toured and earned significant amount of money, his majority of the money would go to his debt / interest payments and only spend $21.5 Million on the kids and his mother. and that would become damages Katherine and Mj's kids suffered due to Michael's death.
 
Re Randy's testimony

Dr. Patrick Treacy ?@peege 22h
Despite what Randy Jackson said in the trial, I never saw MJ with any drugs in his life. Trust me, I knew his #inner
 
ivy;3886563 said:
I think Jacksons main argument is that not only Michael would make Billions but he would give 40% or more to his mother and kids. I agree with Soundmind that AEG is trying to show even with luxury spending on his kids and mother, he wouldn't not be giving them (or spending on them) hundreds of millions.

and this is the main part " The bottom line figure of his projection was $21.5 million dollars for Jackson’s mother and children if MJ had lived for 15 ½ years past ‘09"

so AEG's argument becomes, even if Michael toured and earned significant amount of money, his majority of the money would go to his debt / interest payments and only spend $21.5 Million on the kids and his mother. and that would become damages Katherine and Mj's kids suffered due to Michael's death.
Click to expand...


Thanks Ivy.
The bolded part is totally believable to me.

Plaintiffs are saying that when MJ started earning, he would have given all the money to KJ and kids, and AEG says when he started to work, money would have gone to pay debt/interest?
The first option doesn't give a very good picture of MJ. He would rather spend money than pay his debt. Damn Jackson's, now they trying to point out that MJ wasn't any better than CM.
 
^^

Technically Jackson expert did not consider Michael's debts or any health issues. So his version Michael is living to his 80s or more, touring /working until he's 66 and earning all of these billions and he doesn't know what to do with all that money.
 
How I wished Michael was able to tell 'NO' to his mother. That was his biggest problem because all those slackers knew he wouldn't refuse to give her money and they still use her for their benefit. Seriously, I don't know how those vultures can have fans, they're all despicable, even KJ for putting such heavy weight on his shoulders since she knew about his humongous talent. :cry:
 
Last edited:
Give what we have heard in this trial that is just about over. Which way do you think the jury will go? Have this jury already heard enough to give a verdict?
 
When you have one parent that ain't shi-- you tend to put all of your faith onto the other one. Even when that parent is using you, and hurting you, you still cling onto them because it is all you have. Clearly the Jacksons were raised to with that one for all mentality If Michael made a million we made a million if Michael bought a new house we all got a new house. If Michael got a big fancy car we all got big fancy cars. Now that is over they got nothing hence the problems you see now. Had Michael left them something you would not be seeing this lawsuit Remember when Branca said they applauded when he got done reading the will? Whyin heck would you do that? They thought they through Katherine had money coming
 
Last edited:
Justthefacts said:
When you have one parent that ain't shi-- you tend to putall of your faith onto the other one. Even when that parent is using you, and hurting you, you still cling onto them because it is all you have. Clearly the Jacksons were raised to with that one for all mentality IfMichael made a million we made a million if Michael bought a new house we allgot a new house. If Michael got a bigfancy car we all got big fancy cars. Nowthat is over they got nothing hence the problemsyou see now. Had Michael left themsomething you would not be seeing this lawsuit Remember when Branca said they applaudedwhen he got done reading the will? Whyin heck would you do that? They thoughtthey through Katherine had money coming
Click to expand...

If MJ left them everything they would have still sued AEG, we are talking about a tribe that each member feels he/she has the right to become a billionaire without having to do anything .
 
Probably the only impossible person to say no for him was his mother because we know he didn't accept projects, business deals or touring with his brothers. Jackie seems the nicest and less cold when he talks about Mike but I don't know in what extent to believe about them anymore.
 
Soundmind said:
If MJ left them everything they would have still sued AEG, we are talking about a tribe that each member feels he/she has the right to become a billionaire without having to do anything .
Click to expand...


I think after they ran the estate into the ground and one of them would have went to jail for stealing then they would have sued the AEG
 
Last edited:
Justthefacts said:

When you have one parent that ain't shi-- you tend to putall of your faith onto the other one. Even when that parent is using you, and hurting you, you still cling onto them because it is all you have. Clearly the Jacksons were raised to with that one for all mentality IfMichael made a million we made a million if Michael bought a new house we allgot a new house. If Michael got a bigfancy car we all got big fancy cars. Nowthat is over they got nothing hence the problemsyou see now. Had Michael left themsomething you would not be seeing this lawsuit Remember when Branca said they applaudedwhen he got done reading the will? Whyin heck would you do that? They thoughtthey through Katherine had money coming
Click to expand...



That is the truth. When Michael made money the family made money.




Soundmind said:
If MJ left them everything they would have still sued AEG, we are talking about a tribe that each member feels he/she has the right to become a billionaire without having to do anything .
Click to expand...

Correct you are right the Jacksons would still sued AEG.
 
That is why the family were hounding him in 2007-08 to tour with them. Even Mrs Al Mana needed him although she went years without speaking to him
 
jaydom7 said:
Randy's deposition was full of hate and rage.. It was very eye-opening. He hates his brother for not including him in the will. Randy even made fun of MJ's weight saying he was 90 lbs.. How evil can one be? if anything MJ's weight was alarming and it's because Murray was making him sick. Randy will hopefully be punished for this bs he's pulled.
Click to expand...

His deposition was 60 pages of him detailing all the times he tried to help Michael yet it's full of hate and rage? Are you serious? And be wasn't making fun of his weight. It was a generalisation. He wasn't being specifically asked about his weight.

Randy's issue with the will is that Michael somehow manages to sign it in LA while he was in New York and that has never been properly explained.
 
crillon said:
Exactly. And, because Michael didn't have a job in the traditional sense and his income was based solely on his personal brand and abilities, I'd think forecasting potential income would be almost impossible. TII tickets sold out, but with so many "what-ifs" in play, including his age/ability to complete TII/Wade Robson-like (false) "revelations" the trend analysis based on numbers only don't come close to realistic income.

I also don't understand why Hayvenhurst still had a mortgage on it. Didn't the Jacksons buy that house in 1971 & then Michael paid off that mortgage a few years later & made upgrades to it? Why was there even a mortgage at all on it in 2009?
Click to expand...

That what my understanding was it was paid off because Michael did alot of upgrade to the house.

What going on with Hayvenhurst anyway others then the story i am hearing that it is haunt with Michael spirit.
 
It was properly explained in court where it matters. What Randy thinks what you think mean nothing
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top