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Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

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Soundmind;3874831 said:
It does not help them as you said, the main enemy is MJ not Katherine . If the jury sympathizes with MJ but feels Katherine does not deserve to get paid , they simply could award his kids , so AEG still loses .

AEG's lawyers are doing what Jacksons' lawyers did , contradict themselves , that what happen when your whole case/defence is built on twisting the facts .

When Celin Dion becomes bigger than Michael Jackson you know AEG is plain desperate , just saying
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Maybe Dr Farschian's testimony will become clearer when we hear from more doctors/experts. :(
After all AEG had an expert saying Michael was still addicted to demerol in 2009. That also was desperate...

Céline Dion .... don't get me started...OK i'm not a fan. Is she that famous apart from French speaking countries ? She is huge here , and has been famous since the end of the 80s, with mostly songs in French. But I don't think she is bigger than Michael, no way.
 
About Klein, as we were talking about the medical board yesteday, I think I remember the medical board going after him for something, but I don't remember what. Does anyone rmemeber what it was, if it was related to Michael ?
 
Medical board going after him has nothing to do with Michael. Klein is a sick old man who they feel should lose his license because mentally he is not fit. And what expert said Michael was addicted to demorol in 09?
 
Justthefacts said:
Medical board going after him has nothing to do with Michael. Klein is a sick old man who they feel should lose his license because mentally he is not fit. And what expert said Michael was addicted to demorol in 09?
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thanks.

It was dr Earley- a video deposition played by the Jacksons lawyers - but Dr Earley is on AEG's experts list. I think his depo was played right before dr Czeisler, the sleep expert, testified. Dr Earley said that Michael was still addicted to demerol in 2009, and I think he said that demerol could have interacted with propofol.

It was :bugeyed .

Oh and he also said that "according to the records" there was no indication that Michael was addicted to benzos and/or propofol. So he found Murray's records ?

That was :busted: :doh:

Edit : link to the summary of his depo (towards the end of the post) :
http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...mony-Summary?p=3851727&viewfull=1#post3851727
 
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I tell ya Michael was a different kind of addict. Not needing a fix everyday man he was superman.
 
Justthefacts;3874848 said:
I tell ya Michael was a different kind of addict. Not needing a fix everyday man he was superman.
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I'm not sure I understand .

dr Early is an AEG expert, that was AEG's "version". Dr Earley was contradicted by Dr Schnoll (Jacksons expert, on both witness lists)

Dr. Schnoll said he reviewed medical records that Dr. Farshian implanted a patch into MJ's abdomen. The patch was done for treatment of Demerol dependency in early 2000s. The drug would block the effect of the opioid, Dr. Schnoll said. (ABC7)

Koskoff said based on the medical records in the last 16 years of MJ’s life, he was Demerol free for 13 1/2 years. Koskoff asked if that was consistent with a drug addict. Dr. Schnoll answered no. (ABC7)

Koskoff asked if Dr. Schnoll read testimony from Dr. Earley saying MJ was a drug addict and that he was going to die early. Koskoff: Do you agree with that opinion? Dr. Schnoll: No (ABC7)
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It was a joke. People keep going on about all of the doctors Michael had. I just gave myself a count of all of the doctors I have seen in the past five years. I have seen seven doctors. As of right now I have a total of four doctors. A dentist, primary care doctor, dermatologist, and an OBGYN doctor. One doctor does not treat everything. So I don&#8217;t get it<o:p></o:p>
 
bouee said:
I'm not sure I understand .

dr Early is an AEG expert, that was AEG's "version". Dr Earley was contradicted by Dr Schnoll (Jacksons expert, on both witness lists)
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Confused.

How can one specialist say 'according to Michael's medical records he was Demerol free for the last 16 years of his life' when Dr F said that his records showed he was treating Michael for Demerol dependency in 2002. What medical records was Dr Schnoll reading? Basically they are saying Dr F is lying under oath, yeah?
 
Bubs;3874827 said:
While I was happy to see MJ progress and evidently he tried his best to make himself healthy, but I am deadly against this invasion of MJ privacy. I didn't need to see that information, nor did anyone else except MJ and his doctor.
Now as they are going to parade all MJ doctors on stand, we will be hearing a lots of his private issues. Can you imagine seeing all medical information of you dear family member plasted on media? What about his kids seeing all those reports?
There is no dignity allowed to MJ even he has been gone 4 years, and that makes me so angry to KJ and Randy for trying to squeezy money out of AEG at cost of throwing MJ private issues out there.
I surely hope when AEG start bringing in they witness to testify KJ's life expextancy, her medical reports are plasted from here to China, and Randy's records from mental institution too.
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Thank you for this. But I want to ask why everyone here isn't screaming this from the rooftops? THIS IS ABUSIVE TO MICHAEL! Not to anyone else, TO MICHAEL!!

In 1993 when Oprah interviewed Michael in 1993, he didn’t even want to SAY the word “vitiligo” and now his medical history is being tossed around like confetti! Is there any part of him they haven’t talked about? This did not have to happen.

Some have asked about when Michael’s insomnia began. Possibility (of course I don’t really know) it began in the J5’s pre-Motown days when Michael was around 7,8,9,10 years old. Joe would take the boys around the region to play at nightclubs. Sometimes the boys wouldn’t get home until almost sunrise. They got a couple of hours sleep and then got up for school. Anyone who has kids knows how important a regular bedtime is, especially for a child that young. Also, being the lead of the group he had to work harder and that pumps up the adrenaline more.
 
Tygger;3874626 said:
Crillon, only if he is paid directly.
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That's true. But, since whatever Murray does will be so high-profile and obvious, don't you think it would be very difficult for him to hide money? When Judith Regan was working a book deal with OJ Simpson, the Goldman family was all over it and the public outcry helped to kill that deal. Had it gone through, you can bet they would have followed that money trail and used the courts and media to do it. Whatever Murray tries to do will have a spotlight on it for as long as he lives, but without a Restitution Order, he is free to benefit from his crime. That's just wrong.


Tygger;3874626 said:
See how respectful I was not to post where I saw that? Looks like you got your answer. I hope it explains to you why the doctor&#8217;s appeal lawyer is seen at the civil trial with the defense team, conversing with the defense team, and using the defense team&#8217;s reserve seats. If others find it to be much ado about nothing, so be it; it has and will remain suspicious to me.
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Yes, you were respectful and Ivy answered my question. Maybe I'm being obtuse, but I'm not seeing what you're seeing re/Wass sitting in a defense seat. Seems to me she's there doing her due diligence just in case her client decides to testify. Do you think they're all colluding? I have to say, though, I find Murray's recent cell phone rant interesting and suspicious.
 
jaydom7 said:
I give the side eye to folks like Karen Faye and Kenny Ortega. They were supposed 'friends' and instead of taking action all they did was send emails to AEG who obviously didn't give a damn
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You are so right good post either one of them could have got Michael the help he need and i agree with you on the emails that was a waste of time. If ET can take Michael to a reb why did not one person take him to get the help he need if their was so comcern about Michael health that is what a friend does and you know what Michael won't have said no. Their could have save Michael life.
 
LastTear;3874855 said:
Confused.

How can one specialist say 'according to Michael's medical records he was Demerol free for the last 16 years of his life' when Dr F said that his records showed he was treating Michael for Demerol dependency in 2002. What medical records was Dr Schnoll reading? Basically they are saying Dr F is lying under oath, yeah?
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yes, I was confused too. re reading the part I quoted, I'm not sure he's contradicting dr Farschian.

The sentence is (Dr Schnoll testimony) "Koskoff said based on the medical records in the last 16 years of MJ&#8217;s life, he was Demerol free for 13 1/2 years." Meaning Michael took demerol for 2 1/2 years in the last sixteen years of his life , according to him.
So 2 1/2 years between 1993 and 2009. But we don't know when those 2 1/2 years were , we don't know if it was 2 1/2 years straight, or several shorter periods of time that add up to 2 1/2 years. It's not clear enough from the tweets. Some of it must have been before and right after Farschian came into the picture : Farschian said he first saw him in 2001, and Michael had a relapse around the time Blanket was born , so that's 2002.

My understanding was that Dr Schnoll testified to contradict dr Earley- they are both addiction specialists.
 
mj wasnt in the habit of telling ppl he was having to use diprivan to get to sleep was he.

pminton said:
You are so right good post either one of them could have got Michael the help he need and i agree with you on the emails that was a waste of time. If ET can take Michael to a reb why did not one person take him to get the help he need if their was so comcern about Michael health that is what a friend does and you know what Michael won't have said no. Their could have save Michael life.
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sfosteredi said:
Thank you for this. But I want to ask why everyone here isn't screaming this from the rooftops? THIS IS ABUSIVE TO MICHAEL! Not to anyone else, TO MICHAEL!!
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Of course it is, I think we will all agree. It's abusive from both sides, and the judge who allowed medical records to go public.
 
bouee;3874860 said:
yes, I was confused too. re reading the part I quoted, I'm not sure he's contradicting dr Farschian.

The sentence is (Dr Schnoll testimony) "Koskoff said based on the medical records in the last 16 years of MJ’s life, he was Demerol free for 13 1/2 years." Meaning Michael took demerol for 2 1/2 years in the last sixteen years of his life , according to him.
So 2 1/2 years between 1993 and 2009. But we don't know when those 2 1/2 years were , we don't know if it was 2 1/2 years straight, or several shorter periods of time that add up to 2 1/2 years. It's not clear enough from the tweets. Some of it must have been before and right after Farschian came into the picture : Farschian said he first saw him in 2001, and Michael had a relapse around the time Blanket was born , so that's 2002.

My understanding was that Dr Schnoll testified to contradict dr Earley- they are both addiction specialists.
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Thanks, it would have been easier if he just gave the damn dates! lol
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General question for any members from the USA

How does the keeping of medical records work in the States? In the UK and with the NHS everything goes through our GP,of which you can only have one, even if we see someone privately they write to our GP (not sure if that works with cosmetic stuff though), but anyway our individual medical records are very comprehensive. Does it work the same way in the USA or is it more complicated because you have more freedom to see other doctors.
 
After looking at this testimony it seems that Katherine was in MJ's business a lot, so why is she playing dumb?

Katherine called Dr Farschian to ask about narcan implants, she called Phillips and Thome to tell them that 50 shows was way too much for MJ. She used to call his plastic surgeon to tell him to 'pretend' to operate on MJ just don't do anything etc.. Sounds like she knew a whole lot doesn't it? why didn't she ever report the plastic surgeon and the dermatologist to the police or medical board if she felt they were drugging her son and doing unnecessary operations? And if she could call Phillips and Thome about a performing schedule why didn't she call her grandchildren and ask them about MJ's doctor Murray if she was concerned about his health and mental state?
 
LastTear said:
Thanks, it would have been easier if he just gave the damn dates! lol
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General question for any members from the USA

How does the keeping of medical records work in the States? In the UK and with the NHS everything goes through our GP,of which you can only have one, even if we see someone privately they write to our GP (not sure if that works with cosmetic stuff though), but anyway our individual medical records are very comprehensive. Does it work the same way in the USA or is it more complicated because you have more freedom to see other doctors.
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That's a very good system. Here- France- we can choose our GP, but we have to have a GP if we want maximum money back from health insurance. If we want to see specialist, it has to be done through the GP, otherwise we get less money from health insurance. You can change GP as often as you want, but you can only have one at a time.
There were talks to have centralized medical files accessible to doctors and hopsitals - a bit like yours- but it's not done yet...and I'm not sure it will ever be done, unfortunately, because it's very efficient for doctors, and it saves money (our health insurance system is mixed : a part is public, a part is private)

The big difference with the US would be the right of information : medical files could be used in a trial, but I really don't think they would be made public.
 
^^^^^ I don't think anybody's medical record should be made public, if needed for a trial it can be done in a closed court. I'm only asking about the US system to understand that if an expert says 'I review the medical records' then they have viewed all the medical records.
 
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I believe everybody has seen "news" about Debbie R testifying about MJ's drug use, and somebody asked her about it via twitter

@DJRJPDR Hi Debbie Just heard you are about to testify 4 AEG. Is this true?Just want to know for sure instead of from tabloids. Thanks


Painted Desert Ranch ?@DJRJPDR 26m
@xxx I was subpoenaed I'm nor testifying FOR anyone they called me Panish will cross examine I'm already stressed out
 
bouee said:
I think that's why they sort of shift Murray's blame on Michael, and resort to the propofol defense. They are trying to distract the jury from those red flags, and their reaction to those red flags IMO.


AEG is taking it further talking about propofol.
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That is what AEG is trying to do. Like one post said that after both sides are done the Judge will have to remind the jury of the facts in this case.
 
Someone asked her if it was true that she was testifying for AEG ^^ that was her reply. I thought the reference to Panish was interesting, maybe I see too much into it, but it seems odd to use his name or even know his name.
 
LastTear said:
^^^^^ I don't think anybody's medical record should be made public, if needed for a trial it can be done in a closed court. I'm only asking about the US system to understand that if an expert says 'I review the medical records' then they have viewed all the medical records.
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yes, that would be interesting to know. Since this a trial, I suppose some of the doctors and their records were subpeonaed according to what the lawyers found out.
 
Why wouldnt she know his name. we di. its in articles it gets reported on. if shes been deposed shes gonna know who they are.

btw i thought this was old news. we knew debbie was involved from old reports
 
jaydom7 said:
After looking at this testimony it seems that Katherine was in MJ's business a lot, so why is she playing dumb?

Katherine called Dr Farschian to ask about narcan implants, she called Phillips and Thome to tell them that 50 shows was way too much for MJ. She used to call his plastic surgeon to tell him to 'pretend' to operate on MJ just don't do anything etc.. Sounds like she knew a whole lot doesn't it? why didn't she ever report the plastic surgeon and the dermatologist to the police or medical board if she felt they were drugging her son and doing unnecessary operations? And if she could call Phillips and Thome about a performing schedule why didn't she call her grandchildren and ask them about MJ's doctor Murray if she was concerned about his health and mental state?
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Those are all goods questions we will never get a answer to them. I agree with you she should had this was about her son health and that should have been important to her.
 
elusive moonwalker said:
Why wouldnt she know his name. we di. its in articles it gets reported on. if shes been deposed shes gonna know who they are.

btw i thought this was old news. we knew debbie was involved from old reports
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We study everything so we would know his name - but as I said, I am probably reading too much into it anyway.
 
Bubs said:
I believe everybody has seen "news" about Debbie R testifying about MJ's drug use, and somebody asked her about it via twitter

@DJRJPDR Hi Debbie Just heard you are about to testify 4 AEG. Is this true?Just want to know for sure instead of from tabloids. Thanks


Painted Desert Ranch ?@DJRJPDR 26m
@xxx I was subpoenaed I'm nor testifying FOR anyone they called me Panish will cross examine I'm already stressed out
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So does this mean that Debbie will not testifying for AEG? Can she do that?
 
@xxx I was subpoenaed I'm nor testifying FOR anyone they called me Panish will cross examine I'm already stressed out
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Why is not she afraid of Putnam's direct ?
 
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