Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

[8701girl]

Randy is the one who is really behind this suit and his hiding behind his Mother (who I think he hates for some reason)

I think randy feels katherine always treated michael better than he & the other siblings and that why he feels that way

 

[8701girl]

Yes that story about the letter is in Margaret Malonado's book. She also says that KJ was furious that Jermaine and Joseph hounded Michael at a time when Michael was exhausted and under doctors care.

Funny how they are practially hounding michael even in his death but yet katherine isnt furious bout that ....makes me wanna just :no:

 

[Ashtanga]

This trial >>>>

*big sigh*

 

[8701girl]

This trial >>>>

*big sigh*

More like :banghead:

 

[elapentela]

I don't believe it either. I think KJ's lawyers helped her craft an answer on her rationale for refusing restitution because they knew the defense would bring it up and it wouldn't make any sense to the jury. In fact, the jury would see it for what it was--a strategic move to go after the deep pocketed AEG over the broke Murray. Compassion for Murray's children had nothing to do with it.



This is so unbelievable and sad. Those of us who are parents know what we would have done. Had Katherine helped Michael with this sleep problem when he was a child--and any pediatrician would have taken it seriously--he might not have had the problems as an adult. Or, at least, if he did, he would know there was a solution that didn't require a surgical anesthesia.

Michael had to work at night, so pediatrician would not help. Anyway no pediatrician would allow him to do it if he would ever mention about sleep problem. And then who would be able to support Jackson family? Do you think Jackson5 would achieve 50% of their success without Michael?

 

[Petrarose]

This is the only thing of interest I found from today:

The more I hear from these AEG executives the more I don’t like their personalities. We have Meglen making a comment that the people he work with are like animals and then he claims he was talking about the people who put up and tear down the shows, as though that makes it OK.

Then he should have said the freak and creepy comments were wrong and unprofessional. Rather he talks about they used a name that was already used and private vs public talk to justify the use of the words. He is giving the impression that they are ok to be used as long as no one knows about it. These AEG executives are unbelievable.

I see AEG will try to show that Michael would not make a lot of money.

-North America was not an option, Meglen said, due to Jackson’s reputation here and controversies he'd had here.
I still feel that once Michael made great performances in London, the US fans would want him to perform in the US. Now whether he would want to do so is another thing.

Then Meglen says these 3 things, but I don’t know if he means these were considered as a place for a “world tour” or a residency like the London one.

-He said ultimately the economics of having Jackson do his shows in Asia didn’t work out. They couldn’t get a high enough ticket price there.
-Meglen said Japan is still the stronger concert market. “You can generate a lot more revenue in Japan than in China,” he said.
- He said AEG considered putting Jackson’s shows in Asia, possibly Shanghai or Tokyo. He noted Asia was a historically strong market for MJ.

If Asia was strong and Japan was in Asia why couldn’t they get a high ticket price? I understand the part about China having a lot of poor people, but Japan is supposed to have money. Now Meglen claims Asia didn’t work due to price, but he and others also said they chose London because it had a huge market & Michael had the negative issues in the US, so which is it. Did they choose London because of the huge market or because they couldn’t get a good price in Asia or because US had negative associations or both?

So they did want a world tour, and Paris was right when she said Michael told them they were going to Asia:
-Meglen said he was aware of talks about a worldwide tour with MJ.

I cant remember who it was but some expert claimed that he never heard of doctors on tours. Then we have Meglen saying:
-He said you're dealing with singers, sometimes you have a lot of dancers on shows, so doctors, physical therapists, chefs, not uncommon

I remember the plaintiffs making a big issue about Michael wanting a teleprompter to show how weak his skills had deteriorated. Then we find out:
-Celine Dion, Meglen said, not only uses Teleprompter but has an ear piece with director speaking to her.
- He said it is very common for artists to use TelePrompTers.

Meglen is not the first person to claim that mandatory rehearsals for artists is not in the contracts. However, it seems some directors still expect the artist to be there, like Ortega.
-The rehearsal is more for the people around the artist, Meglen said.
Meglen said Celine Dion's director was freaking out because she was not showing up for rehearsals.
- Meglen said he had never seen an AEG contract where the artist is required to rehearse.

I wonder if Celine knows a lot of her business is being discussed in a case she has nothing to do with.

It seems Meglen is a rocker. He sees the stones and Zep as bigger acts. I wonder if he knows much about Michael the performer and his accomplishments. I find that is a problem with a lot of rockers, even though I love rock, they see non-rockers as not that big a deal.

Meglen claims that Billboard inflate the figures. I guess that is true. It seems Billboard list that artists sell X amount of tickets, but Meglen is saying less tickets were sold and the stadiums hold less people than reported:
-Meglen: You assume I believe and agree with those numbers because they are on Billboard magazine. Those numbers are often inflated.
- Meglen said that to him, the biggest stadium cap he played was in Columbus, Ohio for a concert and he got in over 60,000.
- Meglen: I have done Pink Floyd and Rolling Stones, we try to sell as much as we can, we got to roughly 60,000.
- Meglen: It looks like they (Billboard) reported 97,000.
- Panish showed Meglen the Billboard Magazine article. He asked how many tickets were sold at U2 performed in Oct 2009 at the Rose Bowl?
- Panish: It was reported on Billboard Magazine
-Meglen: I wouldn't believe it
- Panish: Isn't it true U2 had 97,000 people attend at the Rose Bowl?
-Meglen: That's not true
- "The maximum capacity of shows I've done at the Rose Bowl was 59,570," Meglen testified.

 

[Tygger]

Where is this information coming from that Michael had insomnia as a child? Is this in Katherine's transcripts? I have not finished reading them but, some of the questions she was asked do not apply to the trial claim at all as Alan Duke stated. I do not believe that kind of deflection will work in this trial.

Im sure with restitution fathers are still able to provide for their children but just not profit from their crime.

Last Tear, this is not how restitution works.

She didn't have any memory problems during direct.

Last Tear, Phillips and Gongaware did not have memory problems during their direct examinations either. This happens in many trials.

and why is it a job for the fans?

Ivy, Serendipity, Elapentela, Bubs, who did Michael thank for his financial success? His family did not create demand for his products, fans did. Some of those fans have directly and indirectly created demand and have supported the tabloid reporting of the doctor’s prison sentence which included the CNN interview. Continued demand and support of the doctor after his release is frightening to me.

Fans have a choice and it is their responsibility to make a choice that does not support or encourage demand for this doctor’s fabrications out of respect for Michael. It may seem easier to blame Katherine and anyone is free to do that. However, I refuse to have any part in the financial success of that doctor and I will not help to create a demand for his story.

If Katherine says she wanted the money go to Murray's kids why should I even spend a minute trying to prevent Murray? Michael's perfect mother told me not to do it.

Ivy, I would not be surprised if Katherine did not know the doctor’s license was revoked and he could not practice medicine. Katherine did not say how the doctor would generate income so why this continual suggestion of him authoring a book?!

he is writing a book and he can self publish.

As exciting as that sounds for him, again, how do you know he is writing one and why do you continually suggest it? I have only heard about this from you and Radar Online’s Heger. If you know for a FACT the doctor is writing a book, please let fans know so those of us who want to protest the release of that book NOW can do so.

really? you don't see the contradictions? how what she said went against her lawyers opening statements?

Which contradictions negate her son supporting her financially? Which contradictions state AEG did not negligently hire the doctor? As for her saying she did not feel her son was responsible for his own passing, so what? It is expected she would say that and it does not change what was said in the opening statements by Panish.

they can't ask because plaintiffs haven't rested their case. They are still trying to get Grace and Ortega's cross needs to be concluded.

I had forgotten about them! I do not believe these witnesses will change anyone’s view on this trial; they will only reinforce their current views. I would not mind if the plaintiffs rested without them.

I remember her doing interview with Jet magazine in 93 saying how upset she was that no one called her and told her what was going on with Michael that people were calling Liz to tell her instead of her. Her Joe, Randy, Rebbie and Jermaine did an interview with BET where she said she spoke to Michael when she was in rehab and again she said she was upset that no one told her a thing. So I don't get this I don't remember jazz at all.

Justthefacts, this supports Katherine’s testimony that she did not know the tour ended with Michael in rehab. She found out after the fact.

I'm not sure why you keep repeating that his insomnia did not figure in all those projections. Because it is simply not realistic to make projections for bazillion concerts and future tours without considering this very serious problem which is pretty much a deal breaker. Do you think the jury will also disregard it?

It is simply not realistic to think MJ would agree to all these shows and tours knowing what we know from his past comments about tourng and his horrible insomnia.

Serendipity, I have repeated it because it is fact. AEG and the expert did NOT figure Michael’s insomnia into their projections because these projections assumed good health. It was not my choice for AEG or the expert to exclude insomnia, that was their choice and I do not see the problem with that as Michael passed in good health. The jury may not see a problem with that either.

Suppose Michael would have finally found an acceptable cure for his insomnia or successfully managed his insomnia during the world wide tour? I believe the jury is more interested in the wide gap between AEG’s figures and the expert's.

 

[HIStory]

This is so unbelievable and sad. Those of us who are parents know what we would have done. Had Katherine helped Michael with this sleep problem when he was a child--and any pediatrician would have taken it seriously--he might not have had the problems as an adult. Or, at least, if he did, he would know there was a solution that didn't require a surgical anesthesia.

I think Michael's sleep problems since childhood had a lot to do with the showbiz lifestyle/family problems. Katherine maybe knew this deep down and maybe that's why she did not take Michael to the doctor about it. She was afraid the doctor would say the showbiz lifestyle needs to stop or that the whole family needs to go into therapy. Michael was the breadwinner - that aspect of him was always more important to them than his health.

 

[LastTear]

I have not finished reading them but, some of the questions she was asked do not apply to the trial claim at all as Alan Duke stated. I do not believe that kind of deflection will work in this trial.

Which ones?

Last Tear, this is not how restitution works.

Really? So you are telling me that people owing restitution are left with no funds to feed themselves or their dependants? Well, please inform me how it does work as it's very frustrating to be told 'no that's not right' without explaining what is right.

Last Tear, Phillips and Gongaware did not have memory problems during their direct examinations either. This happens in many trials.

Yes they did.

 

[Bubs]

I don't understand why Katherine wasn't asked about the last time she saw her son (unless I missed it), I wonder if on cross the defence can only ask questions relating to testimony given on direct, so maybe Katherine will be called again. I'm sure that will make her happy. I just would have thought it was important that she saw him a week and a half before he died and wasn't concerned.

The concert promoter's defense against the Jackson family's wrongful death lawsuit begins Tuesday and will include testimony from "all of the many, many doctors" who treated Jackson over the past decades, AEG Live attorney Marvin Putnam said.
It will also include a parade of Jackson family members, including a return appearance by matriarch Katherine Jackson, who just concluded two days of testimony as her lawyers presented their case.
"They kept his private world private as best they could and now they would like to blame somebody else for things that only they knew privately," Putnam said.
--------
I still find it unbelievable she said that she didn't talk to kids or ask them anything (she didn't want to hear bad news) but she doesn't mind them to be deposited and then called to testify.

That was in Randy Taraborrelli's book.

Thanks, it was Taiwan when they went after MJ and he refused to see them as they had once again "request" to MJ. That reminded me of Joe's book, in which he wrote about the time they were driving towards to court to hear MJ destiny whether he was going to be declared guilty or not guilty, Joe sat there with MJ and asked him to do tour or whatever it was. Sick.

Katherine said in her testimony that MJ had trouble sleeping since he was child. Did she ever get him help?

No, that was bad news and she doesn't like to hear bad news, and she waited when someone else come along to do mother's job, like baby sitting MJ and make sure MJ is ok, in order he can make money for the family. She loved to hear good news thou, like when MJ comes to visit with paper bag full of money.

 

[LastTear]

Bubs,

Thanks, it was Taiwan when they went after MJ and he refused to see them as they had once again "request" to MJ. That reminded me of Joe's book, in which he wrote about the time they were driving towards to court to hear MJ destiny whether he was going to be declared guilty or not guilty, Joe sat there with MJ and asked him to do tour or whatever it was. Sick.

And, Jermaines book where he talks of Michael being in the hospital (PJ day) and Michael is besides himself and Joe is talking about touring with the brothers etc.

 

[Bubs]

Bubs,

And, Jermaines book where he talks of Michael being in the hospital (PJ day) and Michael is besides himself and Joe is talking about touring with the brothers etc.

It seems that they had tactic to attack on MJ everytime when he wasn't well or something else was occupying his mind (like results for trial). Common nominator to those beggars were, KJ was there every single time.
She didn't (still doesn't) mind if family is hounding MJ even beyond grave, but god help if it is someone outside of the family, she'll sue (unless they get portion of the monies).

I was reading in the twitter world that restitution was dropped because KJ wouldn't have got anything, it would have gone to kids. Do you know anything about that, or will we wait Ivy
While I wait I'll do search about it.

 

[Bubs]

Jackson appeared combative at times when Putnam cross-examined her, punching back at his questions.
"What does this have to do with my son dying?" she replied at one point.
"I think she was badgered, but that wasn't the first time," Panish told reporters later. "In her deposition, she was asked questions like, "Does your husband ever beat you?'"
Doctor: Promoter knew about Jackson's drug dependency
For the pretrial deposition, she was questioned for about 12 hours over three days.
Putnam denied he was being overly aggressive in his questioning of her.
"I just wanted to know the facts from her and there was no reason to be aggressive with her," he said. "She was combative, but you can't blame Mrs. Jackson for that. None of us want to find ourselves in a situation where we're having to confront the very public death of our child."
Putnam refused to discuss why he asked Katherine Jackson in the deposition if her husband, Joe Jackson, ever beat her.
"What occurred in those depositions was confidential at Mrs. Jackson's request, therefore I am not at liberty to go into to the private matters that we went into in that deposition," Putnam told CNN. However, Katherine Jackson and her lawyer both brought up the question in court Monday.
"I am not going to go into what we went into about the very tragic history Michael Jackson had with his parents and father over the period of his life," Putnam said. "That is something we did not go into on the stand because it is not relevant. I'm not bringing that up."
--------------
There goes Panish again:smilerolleyes:
He has that habit of blaming defences lawyers for something that they themselves are doing, like he accused defense calling kids to stand but it was plaintiffs who called Prince.
He says Putnam's question to KJ were badgering? I didn't hear a single complaint from defense when they kept Gonga, Ortega and RP in stand for days :doh:
Is he being Jacksonised and thinks that AEG should just drop dead and give the the money?
They said that KJ's deposition took 9 hours over 3 days (my note: 3 hours/day is nothing), and she was on stand roughly 1 full day. I say she got away fairly easy.

"The judge admonished plaintiff’s attorney Brian Panish, who was apparently shaking his head and “making faces.” Judge called it unnecessary."

Not the first time! He is behaving like 5 years old there:doh:
Judge should treat him the same way as he behaving, send him to corner to think what he has done.

Putnam should have read KJ's book, she wrote that Joe hit her once and she hit him with frying pan and that was last time Joe hit her. Interestingly she didn't hit Joe with frying pan when he was beating her kids, but when herself was hit once, she protected herself. Didn't Jermaine write that mother always protects cubs or something?

 

[Justthefacts]

The concert promoter's defense against the Jackson family's wrongful death lawsuit begins Tuesday and will include testimony from "all of the many, many doctors" who treated Jackson over the past decades, AEG Live attorney Marvin Putnam said.
It will also include a parade of Jackson family members, including a return appearance by matriarch Katherine Jackson, who just concluded two days of testimony as her lawyers presented their case.
"They kept his private world private as best they could and now they would like to blame somebody else for things that only they knew privately," Putnam said.
--------
I still find it unbelievable she said that she didn't talk to kids or ask them anything (she didn't want to hear bad news) but she doesn't mind them to be deposited and then called to testify.




Thanks, it was Taiwan when they went after MJ and he refused to see them as they had once again "request" to MJ. That reminded me of Joe's book, in which he wrote about the time they were driving towards to court to hear MJ destiny whether he was going to be declared guilty or not guilty, Joe sat there with MJ and asked him to do tour or whatever it was. Sick.




No, that was bad news and she doesn't like to hear bad news, and she waited when someone else come along to do mother's job, like baby sitting MJ and make sure MJ is ok, in order he can make money for the family. She loved to hear good news thou, like when MJ comes to visit with paper bag full of money.

That is the one thing I don't understand about this whole thing. The Jackson's lawyer said that Michael was an addict due to his pain issues and everyone knew it so AEG should have known. I don't get this Michael never had a problem he was fine thing. It confuses the heck out of me image how the jury must feel

 

[LastTear]

It seems that they had tactic to attack on MJ everytime when he wasn't well or something else was occupying his mind (like results for trial). Common nominator to those beggars were, KJ was there every single time.
She didn't (still doesn't) mind if family is hounding MJ even beyond grave, but god help if it is someone outside of the family, she'll sue (unless they get portion of the monies).

I was reading in the twitter world that restitution was dropped because KJ wouldn't have got anything, it would have gone to kids. Do you know anything about that, or will we wait Ivy
While I wait I'll do search about it.

Tbh I wouldn't be surprised if reunion talks happened every time they saw him, hence why he didn't see his family very often. But, those are just my thoughts.

Re restitution, Ivy will correct if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty certain that KJ would have been awarded restitution, it seemed to me to be a pretty done deal when Walgren was putting it to Pastor. Perhaps the twitter talk is referring to KJ not actually seeing the amount awarded in her bank account. Sorry re-read your question, duh (to me). I believe, as a dependant she would have received it.

 

[Bubs]

@Petrarose

"The more I hear from these AEG executives the more I don’t like their personalities. We have Meglen making a comment that the people he work with are like animals and then he claims he was talking about the people who put up and tear down the shows, as though that makes it OK."

Maybe it was meant to come out like that, maybe he meant as those people have to work hard and fast, they work like animals
I have come across with "working like animal" quote many times, and have myself referred some people who works hard as working like animal, shoot me
--------------

"-North America was not an option, Meglen said, due to Jackson’s reputation here and controversies he'd had here.
I still feel that once Michael made great performances in London, the US fans would want him to perform in the US. Now whether he would want to do so is another thing."

I have to agree wit Mengen on this. The way media treated MJ in US and still does, I can see his point.
----------------

I cant remember who it was but some expert claimed that he never heard of doctors on tours. Then we have Meglen saying:
-He said you're dealing with singers, sometimes you have a lot of dancers on shows, so doctors, physical therapists, chefs, not uncommon

It is more common than they give info about it. When Beyonce cancelled her concert in Belgium,re:
Beyoncé has revealed that she rejected the advice of doctors in order to keep touring.
As previously reported, the superstar singer postponed a show in Antwerp, Belgium on Tuesday (May 14) due to dehydration and exhaustion.
She later issued a handwritten apology to fans and confirmed that her concert at the same venue last night (May 15) would go ahead.
However, Beyoncé told fans at the gig that she was told not to play in order to preserve her health. The singer said:
"Now, my doctors told me not to perform tonight, but there was no way in the world. I just have to say that you all have given me so much inspiration. And I just want to thank you guys."

As she was in Belgium, she must have had doctor with her unless she flew to NY and back to Belgium in 1 night.
------------

"I remember the plaintiffs making a big issue about Michael wanting a teleprompter to show how weak his skills had deteriorated. Then we find out:
-Celine Dion, Meglen said, not only uses Teleprompter but has an ear piece with director speaking to her.
- He said it is very common for artists to use TelePrompTers.
"

If telepromter is good enough Celine, Prince, Bon Jovi, Bruce S etc, MJ using it should be such an issue
See:http://modernacoustic.com/wp/2012/04/teleprompters-for-musicians-cheating-or-helping/
--------------------

Meglen is not the first person to claim that mandatory rehearsals for artists is not in the contracts. However, it seems some directors still expect the artist to be there, like Ortega.
-The rehearsal is more for the people around the artist, Meglen said.
Meglen said Celine Dion's director was freaking out because she was not showing up for rehearsals.
- Meglen said he had never seen an AEG contract where the artist is required to rehearse.

I wonder if Celine knows a lot of her business is being discussed in a case she has nothing to do with.

I think she allowed it as AEG is behing her shows and its not so big deal.
I think I wrote already somewhere what I thought about KO wanting to see MJ @ rehearsals.
I think as MJ had so much new technology stuff for his show, KO wanted MJ to test them and to see how and whether they worked as they should be before they went for 02.
--------------------------

"It seems Meglen is a rocker. He sees the stones and Zep as bigger acts. I wonder if he knows much about Michael the performer and his accomplishments. I find that is a problem with a lot of rockers, even though I love rock, they see non-rockers as not that big a deal."

That goes with territory and its all about territory. Rockers are always saying that pop is not music and otherwise downplaying significance of popular music. Don't forget, those rockers killed disco because it was taking money away from rockers
--------------

I thought this was brilliant:
Bina asked if Wikipedia was wrong in saying the shows were sold out. "I don't use Wikipedia as source for my business," Meglen said.

Didn't plaintiffs pull some numbers out of wiki?
Wiki is as reliable as the source used to make statement there. Usually if I refer something from Wiki, I check the bottom of the page for the source, then you know whether it is valid or not. If the source is TMZ or similar, you know that is rubbish



Different note, who is going to be after Meglen?

 

[Bubs]

That is the one thing I don't understand about this whole thing. The Jackson's lawyer said that Michael was an addict due to his pain issues and everyone knew it so AEG should have known. I don't get this Michael never had a problem he was fine thing. It confuses the heck out of me image how the jury must feel

It is very confusing because plaintiff lawyers are consulting with Randy and other thugs, and don't tell KJ where the case is going. It was very clear from her testimony. When both sides are done, the judge has to remind jurors that this trial is about whether AEG hired doc or not, and not about what people think whether MJ was an addict or not.

 

[ivy]

Where is this information coming from that Michael had insomnia as a child? Is this in Katherine's transcripts?

He didn't talk much about his insomnia, Mrs. Jackson said. He couldn't sleep at all at night when he was at home.

 

[Soundmind]

so MJ was a drug addict for a very long time ,his family knew it and tried to keep it a secret from the world ? If anyone could get any lower than the Jacksons in terms of ethics and morals it would be AEG .

MJ said in a world wide televised statement that he was going to rehab , when his mother denies she was aware of it , MJ get blamed for her lies and ignorance ? I don't know who to hate more AEG or the Jacksons , the two are freaking bastards .


Now Led Zeppelin are bigger than MJ ? :blink:

It's good he did not say N sync were not bigger also in his attempt to downplay MJ's popularity .

Flashback :

[h=3]MUSIC bosses hope Led Zeppelin will play some of *****’s O2 arena gigs.[/h] AEG Live, the team behind the King of Pop’s 50-night stint, want the rock supergroup to alternate shows with Abba.
Both bands — who have sold 600million albums between them — have been offered big money to reform.
Led Zep stars Jimmy Page, 65, Robert Plant, 60, and bassist John Paul Jones, 63, have been approached.
They played their only concert in 19 years at the O2 in 2007 and are seen as one of the few acts who could rival *****. His This Is It tour was due to start at the London venue on July 13.
AEG face multi-million pound losses if they cannot fill the slots. A source said: “Only Michael Jackson could sell out 50 nights at such a big arena, but Led Zeppelin and Abba combined might just rival him. There is huge money on the table.”

Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...-Michael-Jacksons-O2-slots.html#ixzz2Zy8lafg6
​

 

[LastTear]

@Ivy, and I'm right in thinking also that the courts would have something in place (I did post something a while ago) that prevents a person with a restitution order against them from indirectly profiting?

 

[Justthefacts]

There is no way IMO you can say Michael hid his drug issues because he was open about it. So I don't get that. However as far as propofol goes you can that he hid

 

[LastTear]

@justthefacts He was open about one time only- when he went into rehab.

**************

Murray needs a psych assessment - stat! I think he is getting off light in this trial, I haven't seen either side say much about him, the man is crazy, 'if you call me I will blow the lid on Michael's relationship with his family' - then he says it anyway. lol Poor conrad murray

 

[Soundmind]

There is no way IMO you can say Michael hid his drug issues because he was open about it. So I don't get that. However as far as propofol goes you can that he hid

You know what he told pretty much everyone in the medical field about propofol . I dont think he considered it such a shame as people are trying to claim . How many people so far has said he told them or saw doctors around him during tours ? MANY MANY MANY .

He was not the type of person who would discuss his PERSONAL issues with everyone , that does not mean he considered it a secret . Did Casico say I asked him what med are you taking ? No, no one asked him , but everyone around knew he needed meds for his insomina . Even Debbie a nurse did not know what meds he was taking while she was there with him when he was given them .

My friend did not sleep for three days , her family admitted her into hospital she is still there , that's how serious chronic insomnia is . However, ignorant, haters and greedy people like AEG, the Jerksons want us to believe it's not a big issue .

@justthefacts He was open about one time only- when he went into rehab.

What do you mean by being open ? he should have released a statement to acknowledge he had a problem ?

In 2002 , did he have a doctor who was treating him ? yes . Was he aware he have a problem ? yes . Just because the Jacksons said he did not allow them to intervene does not mean he was in denial . They were not there for the intervention , that was an excuse to get there to offer some proposal , he knew that , what they did months before was still in his mind.


MJ stated in his deposition during Deiter Weisner lawsuit in 2007 that he might have been under the influence of some medication when he signed contracts in 2002 , so he was not secretive about anything .

 

[ivy]

@Ivy, and I'm right in thinking also that the courts would have something in place (I did post something a while ago) that prevents a person with a restitution order against them from indirectly profiting?

I would think that would require case by case follow up to show that he is indeed profiting from it.

Collecting restitution is not always easy but that doesn't excuse giving a free reign to Murray in my opinion. for example Jacksons trying to stop a book (just an example) but not succeeding for whatever reason would be a million times better than giving him freedom to do whatever he wants. And we are seeing the examples of it. Murray leaves a voice message to his girlfriend "the instrument", she sells the voicemail to the paps and now it is posted on TMZ. So Murray not only threatening Jackson family, not only saying that Michael removed them from his life and he knows why and he's getting paid for it.

 

[LastTear]

.

What do you mean by being open ? he should have released a statement to acknowledge he had a problem ?

In 2002 , did he have a doctor who was treating him ? yes . Was he aware he have a problem ? yes . Just because the Jacksons said he did not allow them to intervene does not mean he was in denial . They were not there for the intervention , that was an excuse to get there to offer some proposal , he knew that , what they did months before was still in his mind.


MJ stated in his deposition during Deiter Weisner lawsuit in 2007 that he might have been under the influence of some medication when he signed contracts in 2002 , so he was not secretive about anything .

I meant it was only known about the one time when he went to rehab, but I had forgotten the bolded, yes he did say that in his deposition. And no, I don't believe Michael had to tell us anything that he didn't want to.

Re the rest, there is a difference now between what is being said in the trial to what we knew when Michael was alive.

 

[#MJforever57]

I don't believe it either. I think KJ's lawyers helped her craft an answer on her rationale for refusing restitution because they knew the defense would bring it up and it wouldn't make any sense to the jury. In fact, the jury would see it for what it was--a strategic move to go after the deep pocketed AEG over the broke Murray. Compassion for Murray's children had nothing to do with it.


This is so unbelievable and sad. Those of us who are parents know what we would have done. Had Katherine helped Michael with this sleep problem when he was a child--and any pediatrician would have taken it seriously--he might not have had the problems as an adult. Or, at least, if he did, he would know there was a solution that didn't require a surgical anesthesia.

Oh my God i can just hug you your posts are awesome. I am not a parent but you are so right in the bold.

 

[crillon]

You know what he told pretty much everyone in the medical field about propofol . I dont think he considered it such a shame as people are trying to claim . How many people so far has said he told them or saw doctors around him during tours ? MANY MANY MANY.

I agree--that seems to be the case--Michael did not "hide" the fact that he needed propofol, his "milk," and the likely reason for that is a medical doctor suggested it to him to solve his insomnia. And, he had the experience with Dr. Ratner of it working successfully. Michael probably thought this was an option available to him (due to his stature, wealth) that was not a mainstream solution to everyone else who had the same problem, but was safe if administered by a doctor. Like most of us, Michael respected and trusted the doctors he consulted with to be competent and to "do no harm."

 

[marebear]

I don't get how people say Katherine doesn't want to hear bad things and they don't tell her bad things so she avoids it. Is she a child or something? Nobody likes to hear bad things but she is a grown woman with children and grandchildren. What I have read the last couple of days shows to me that the Jacksons should have had therapy a long time ago. They don't communicate at all only when they want something. I am not trying to sound hateful but you can't be blind to what happens in life. We don't live in a fantasy world where only good things happen. Her children treat her like a fragile child and she treats them the same way back it seems. She says if she had known things she would have done something but you can't help but wonder what when she avoids talking about things and dealing with things. The whole family does that. I am sorry I am just shocked by this logic.

 

[Soundmind]

Her children treat her like a fragile child and she treats them the same way back it seems.

Nope , the only one who treated her like a fragile child was MJ. Katherine , her abusive ugly monster husband and their bloodsucking cubs took full advantage of this fact to get as much money as they could from him alive and continue to do so in his death

 

[crillon]

Nope , the only one who treated her like a fragile child was MJ. Katherine , her abusive ugly monster husband and their bloodsucking cubs took full advantage of this fact to get as much money as they could from him alive and continue to do so in his death

Totally agree. But, I think Katherine is responsible for a lot of the manipulations, too. I don't see her as just a victim to her husband and cubs--she had no trouble being the one to step up to "convince" Michael to do concerts (the Korean fiasco) and knew exactly what she was doing. The more I learn about her, the less I respect her sadly.

The last straw for me was her failure to protect Paris.