Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

[amoremotus]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

I don't understand why they are bringing up Michael having a messy room.

Probably to show how the messy room is a mirror to his chaotic lifestyle and also maybe because it fits their theory about the two Michaels and that he is being so secretive. :crazy

 

[ivy]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

I don't understand why they are bringing up Michael having a messy room.

Right. I think they want to say either Michael is messy, or something really horrible happened there, who knows..... Anyway I for once I had to give thumbs up to Putnam for asking if it is a crime to have a messy room, or if Martinez knew that Michael was packing to go to London or words to that effect. Let's see if there are more occasions during this trial when I can give either side a thumbs up.

Probably to show how the messy room is a mirror to his chaotic lifestyle and also maybe because it fits their theory about the two Michaels and that he is being so secretive. :crazy

I'm thinking the argument is no one - including the housekeepers- weren't allowed upstairs. This goes on with AEG's claim that no one knew what was happening "behind closed doors" - as they mentioned in their opening statements.

 

[qbee]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

I read the news summary and he was also insinuating that he felt MJ was to sickly to clean his room.:rolleyes2: Then he was questioned and asked if he knew MJ getting ready to move to London in a week and he said yes. Hey Michael was rehearsing and having meeting with merchandisers, making moving arrangements etc etc.. and most likely didn't have time. Plus all boxes all over and clothes were probably out getting ready to pack. Plus he didnt allow housekeepers in his private quarters.

Martinez. Jurors saw police photos taken hours after the pop icon's death, showing disorganized closets, cardboard boxes lining the hallway and a general mess throughout.

AEG lawyer Marvin Putnam spent several minutes questioning Martinez about the messiness. During the lunch break, the Jacksons' lawyer joked to reporters that Putnam has succeeded in proving Michael Jackson was messy.

Back in court, Panish asked the detective:
"Is there anywhere in the penal code that says if you have a messy room that's against the law?" The jury thought that was funny and laughed.

Panish: "You've come across scenes that had a messy room?"
Martinez: "Yes."

Panish: "And that's an indication that someone is not doing well, that their health is bad and they can't clean the room?"
Martinez: "Yes."

Panish: "There were moving boxes in the room?"
Martinez: "Yes."

Panish: "Did you know he was planning to go to England? Within a week or two he was leaving that residence?"
Martinez: "Yes."

 

[jamba]

Michael Jackson’s mom, siblings fear they may lose lawsuit
By Bill Zwecker May 2, 2013 10:15PM


Updated: May 3, 2013 2:29AM

There are lots of jitters among members of Michael Jackson’s family this week — serious concerns their mega-million-dollar wrongful death lawsuit against the AEG concert promoters is not going their way.

Family insiders say matriarch Katherine Jackson, who has been leading the charge in the case, and her children — especially Randy, Rebbie, Jackie and Jermaine — now fear they could easily lose the case.


A major coup for the AEG legal team was provided by the revelation by RadarOnline of a damning document contradicting the opening statement by the Jacksons’ lawyer. The attorney made a big point of saying how so many people — including Michael Jackson’s family members — were very much aware of the king of pop’s serious drug addiction problems.

However, back in 2007, after People magazine ran a story claiming Michael’s brothers and mother had staged an intervention to get him into rehab, Katherine Jackson and her other sons denied it. Going further, they then signed an official statement denying they had arranged an intervention and also that Michael had any problems with drugs or alcohol.

A Jackson family source told this column Thursday. “The AEG folks have got to be very happy about this.”

http://www.suntimes.com/entertainme...-mom-siblings-fear-they-may-lose-lawsuit.html

 

[shelly_webster]

Michael Jackson’s mom, siblings fear they may lose lawsuit
By Bill Zwecker May 2, 2013 10:15PM


Updated: May 3, 2013 2:29AM

There are lots of jitters among members of Michael Jackson’s family this week — serious concerns their mega-million-dollar wrongful death lawsuit against the AEG concert promoters is not going their way.

Family insiders say matriarch Katherine Jackson, who has been leading the charge in the case, and her children — especially Randy, Rebbie, Jackie and Jermaine — now fear they could easily lose the case.


A major coup for the AEG legal team was provided by the revelation by RadarOnline of a damning document contradicting the opening statement by the Jacksons’ lawyer. The attorney made a big point of saying how so many people — including Michael Jackson’s family members — were very much aware of the king of pop’s serious drug addiction problems.

However, back in 2007, after People magazine ran a story claiming Michael’s brothers and mother had staged an intervention to get him into rehab, Katherine Jackson and her other sons denied it. Going further, they then signed an official statement denying they had arranged an intervention and also that Michael had any problems with drugs or alcohol.

A Jackson family source told this column Thursday. “The AEG folks have got to be very happy about this.”

http://www.suntimes.com/entertainme...-mom-siblings-fear-they-may-lose-lawsuit.html

Lol fans knew about this letter a long time ago. Lawyers from both side know that letter too.

 

[Tygger]

"Jamba, Detective Martinez discussed interventions today and they were discussed in the defense’s opening statements as well. I do not know if concertventions will be mentioned during the trial." (Tygger)

Problem is family claims the concertventions were interventions--if they went to see MJ about touring or performing with them, they say that was actually an intervention. Problem is, the family did not know what was going on in MJ's life.

KJ's deposition states she received $$ from MJ. She received 1 million before each tour. She had all expenses paid at Hayvenhurst and 2k for groceries per month (although some bills were in arrears when MJ died). If all these bills were paid under normal circumstances, what happened to the 1 million she got before the tours? MJ gave her 500k when he left after the trial and his accountant would write her a check when she asked for it. She said MJ gave her 20k or more a few times in 09 when he was in LA. She can't remember how much or how often. (info from the trail summary thread).

Jamba, I do not see how a concertvention fits into the trial but, we shall see. The interventions the Detective testified to had nothing to do with a concert. The defendants' lawyer spoke about the family's interventions in their opening statements but, we will not hear their side for some time.

Is there a summary of Katherine's and Rebbie's deposition?

 

[8701girl]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

The jackson siblings have no one to blame but themselves for that

 

[Ashtanga]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

:no:



This is so crazy errin: ..... no way this crap judgment has to do with justice. It's more like a circus than for a trial. Shame! uke:

 

[shelly_webster]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Jamba, I do not see how a concertvention fits into the trial but, we shall see. The interventions the Detective testified to had nothing to do with a concert. The defendants' lawyer spoke about the family's interventions in their opening statements but, we will not hear their side for some time.

Is there a summary of Katherine's and Rebbie's deposition?

Rebbie said there was 3 interventions one at Neverland, one at NY, one in Las Vegas.

 

[HIStory]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

I read the news summary and he was also insinuating that he felt MJ was to sickly to clean his room.:rolleyes2: Then he was questioned and asked if he knew MJ getting ready to move to London in a week and he said yes. Hey Michael was rehearsing and having meeting with merchandisers, making moving arrangements etc etc.. and most likely didn't have time. Plus all boxes all over and clothes were probably out getting ready to pack. Plus he didnt allow housekeepers in his private quarters.

Then Michael must have been sickly all his life, because he was always messy. On the photos and footage of the Neverland search that can bee seen. Michael himself also mentioned in an interview that he was pretty messy. It's unfortunate that they are jumping to unfounded conclusions like having a messy room means he was sickly.

 

[AliCat]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Intervention (counseling)

Prior to the intervention itself, the family meets with a counselor or interventionist. Families prepare letters in which they describe their experiences associated with the addict's behavior, to convey to the person the impact his or her addiction has had on others. Also during the intervention rehearsal meeting, a group member is strongly urged to create a list of activities by the addict that they will no longer tolerate, finance, or participate in if the addict does not agree to check into a rehabilitation center for treatment. These consequences may be as simple as no longer loaning money to the addict, but can be far more serious, such as losing custody of a child.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intervention_(counseling)

Was Michael Jackson endangering his children because of a supposed "addiction" and was this the bigger concern of why Katherine and children, Michael's siblings, wanted an intervention to be done, because his actions were effecting Prince, Paris and Blanket?

It seems to me if Michael Jackson were the addict that the Jackson's wanted to do an intervention, then maybe Michael should've stopped loaning them money, right?!

 

[Victory22]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

The Jackson's have told so many public lies all AEG has to do is a little research and they will bury the greedy lot of them.

 

[Petrarose]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

The Jackson's have told so many public lies all AEG has to do is a little research and they will bury the greedy lot of them.

True & that is why I do not understand why AEG in their opening statement did not attack the family as they attacked Michael. Since these opening statements are usually a lot of hot air, why didn't AEG suggest that Katherine being influenced by children who were left out of the will, embarked on a suit to extract money from AEG for Michael's death to help her children financially. Then, they could show all the lies, contradictions, family's dependence on Michael's money, all the times Michael bailed them out, Randy stealing, family claiming there was no will, family summer letter about an estate that has nothing to do with them, and then show why they did not hire Muarry. Rather, they decided to attack Michael, who did not sue them in the first place.

^^On another note, it is good to see that we are not the only ones who know this case is to get money for the Jackson siblings.

 

[Victory22]

True & that is why I do not understand why AEG in their opening statement did not attack the family as they attacked Michael. Since these opening statements are usually a lot of hot air, why didn't AEG suggest that Katherine being influenced by children who were left out of the will, embarked on a suit to extract money from AEG for Michael's death to help her children financially. Then, they could show all the lies, contradictions, family's dependence on Michael's money, all the times Michael bailed them out, Randy stealing, family claiming there was no will, family summer letter about an estate that has nothing to do with them, and then show why they did not hire Muarry. Rather, they decided to attack Michael, who did not sue them in the first place.

^^On another note, it is good to see that we are not the only ones who know this case is to get money for the Jackson siblings.

I totally agree with you but I think AEG is fearful of going after the Jackson’s because they believe the public thinks more highly of them than they actually do. Your argument is definitely a solid strategy for AEG which only proves that the fans are the only true expert witnesses to MJ’s life. We know more about Michael than the Jackson’s and/or AEG Live combined with their overpriced lawyers and research teams of mud slingers!

 

[Bubs]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Why did his manager choose the Carolwood house for him ? since he was going to pay everything back Shouldnt he have had the choice of where to live ?
Thanks for the updates

I haven't read the rest of the posts yet, so I don't know if somebody replied to your question.
When he rented a place in Ireland, it was Grace who picked the house for them and she viewed the place first on Michael's behalf. Paddy didn't know who rented his house untill MJ and kids with Grace showed up.
I assume that Michael didn't personally didn't go to see the houses he rented, he gave his requirements for house to his staff and staff (Grace,manager) looked the suitable as per Michael's requests (perhaps even showed photos of the house to MJ?) and he then gave his approval. I don't think this is the case that MJ had no say where he was staying.

 

[Billie Jean 78]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

But as I recall, the fire was in the master bedroom, not the one Michael was "sleeping" in.

Ok, it seems I missed this one out. I did not know it was two separate bedrooms.

Maybe Michael kept the fireplace on in his OWN master BR to keep it warm so when he woke up and went to his own room, it would be comfortable in there for him. That seems very reasonable to me.

Still I have to wonder why he would even need extra heat in june. What kind of climate to they have in LA?

 

[Bubs]

Is Leanord Rowe reliable?

Is any Jackson reliable?

Btw, as per P Tracy interview with A Jones:
There was one time I had to go to Michael’s house and it was a few days before he met the Queen, at the opening of Casino Royal. Michael after one of his other procedures had an area – around his nose and I don’t want to go into too much detail because I certainly don’t want to break Michael’s confidentiality in any way – but he had hypersensitivity in this area and would require sedation and I couldn’t get an anesthetist to go to his house that night. I myself could have given Medasolam [ ] but he wouldn’t even do that. It would seem unusual to me that Michael would go off with somebody who certainly did not use the drug that I knew, that wasn’t an insomniac that I knew, to dying of the IV ICU type of drug.
-----------------------------------

You are jumping on the conclusion that MJ was getting Demerol just to get high, but maybe it was for the cosmetic procedures Klien was doing at the time. We know he had some work done to his face in Kliens, and maybe Demerol was used because that area in MJ's face was hypersensitive.

I personally don't care either way if it will be proved that MJ was addicted, but I most certainly don't believe it when it comes from family who rarely saw MJ, and their interventions appears to be concerventions after all.

 

[shelly_webster]

I totally agree with you but I think AEG is fearful of going after the Jackson’s because they believe the public thinks more highly of them than they actually do. Your argument is definitely a solid strategy for AEG which only proves that the fans are the only true expert witnesses to MJ’s life. We know more about Michael than the Jackson’s and/or AEG Live combined with their overpriced lawyers and research teams of mud slingers!

I believe the problem is KJ. A grieving mother is alwaysa powerful witness and the jury might not like you if you are too hard on her.

 

[Bubs]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

^^^^^...the end of that article says that '"When Martinez walked into the upstairs master bedroom,, he found the gas fireplace was burning, the television was on and music coming from the CD player. Except for Murray, "only the chef who can drop off food at the door" was allowed upstairs, he testified."


I find it ODD that there was a GAS fireplace burning with Michael in the next room wearing OXYGEN. Oxygen is flammable....and there is NOT suppose to be ANY gas near it EVER. That is why there are signs outside rooms that say "no smoking oxygen in use".. They could of blown that whole damn house up with that gas stove fumes and oxygen usage.

If I remember right from CM trial, those Oxygen tanks were empty.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Per Samantha "Next is an audio recording of LAPD interviewing Murray. Murray says AEG hired him and were to pay him regardless of whether it was Michael who asked for him."

On the transcribed report Murray says Michael hired him but he was going to be paid by AEG. Which is correct?

samantha wasnt credible during the murray trial when she wrote info down in summaries and it got posted on the boards so id take what she says with a pinch of salt

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

so mj was to sickly to clean he room but not to sickly to do those great rehearsals on the 23/24th june. LOL ok pannish. scraping and barrel comes to mind.

 

[amoremotus]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Ok, it seems I missed this one out. I did not know it was two separate bedrooms.

Still I have to wonder why he would even need extra heat in june. What kind of climate to they have in LA?

I was wondering about that too. My initial thought was that someone wanted to burn documents, but then I realized that it was a gas fireplace and so it could have been burning all night/day...

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

You are jumping on the conclusion that MJ was getting Demerol just to get high,
-----------------------
yes someone getting high but only going to kliens a handful of times in one month. and has no demoral in his house or system even though u get withdrawl after 8 hrs.and given amounts that wouldnt cause any addiction. thats abit slack for an addict dont u think?!why someone who claims to be a fan of michael keeps pushing this agenda i dont know (well i do) even when the facts say a very different thing. i thought this board was for those that support michael not those that want to ignore the facts because it doesnt suit the agenda of who they support.its funny cause you see the same agenda pushed by family supporters on the other boards aswell. asnyone would think there was an agenda going on the last four years lol

 

[Bubs]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

You are jumping on the conclusion that MJ was getting Demerol just to get high,
-----------------------
yes someone getting high but only going to kliens a handful of times in one month. and has no demoral in his house or system even though u get withdrawl after 8 hrs.and given amounts that wouldnt cause any addiction. thats abit slack for an addict dont u think?!why someone who claims to be a fan of michael keeps pushing this agenda i dont know (well i do) even when the facts say a very different thing. i thought this board was for those that support michael not those that want to ignore the facts because it doesnt suit the agenda of who they support.its funny cause you see the same agenda pushed by family supporters on the other boards aswell. asnyone would think there was an agenda going on the last four years lol

Well, we know Michael was an unique person and did things that most of people can only dream of. Maybe his drug addictions was unique too, he determinated himself when he was addicted and when he wasn't. He was so unique that he could overpower the addiction and decide: today I'm don't bother taking anything, but maybe tomorrow I go to Klien to get demerol and get some cosmetic work done the same time. (Sarcasm)

I don't understand it either. Its not like family has the best track record telling the truth, in fact far from it.
I personally don't know he addictions or non addictions, but I'm pretty sure nor did his family.

I noticed that in opening speach, Panish mentioned MJ burnt accided, Viitiligo and bridge accident as reason for using painkillers. I wonder why Lupus wasn't mentioned, or did Katherine forgot to mention it as she didn't know that?

About people pushing their agendas, I agre with you.
There were people in 2005 who were pushing their agenda and saying Michael was child m.... because evidense looked that way, 8 years later there are people pushing their agenda and saying that MJ was drug addict because evidense looks that way.
Not much have changed in recent years, people see what they want to see, and this time Michael in on trial in for his "drug addiction".

 

[Virre]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

I was wondering about that too. My initial thought was that someone wanted to burn documents, but then I realized that it was a gas fireplace and so it could have been burning all night/day...

Michael did have a problem during that time that he was freezing all the time, Paris said this too.

However, he always had his rooms over the normal temperature. He didn't like the sun and that heat but he wanted his rooms very warm. I think one of the producers said this too in an interview.

 

[bouee]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Michael did have a problem during that time that he was freezing all the time, Paris said this too.

Could have been a side effect from long term propofol use, and or excessive benzos, or even the flu (fever), according to Dr Shafer. According to what was said during CM's trial, forget about demerol to explain this.

This is also what Kenny said in his email.

It would be interesting to know exactly when it started.

ETA : I was reading Ivy's trial summary, and found this " Paris says one week before his death Michael was complaining about his body temperature would fluctuate from hot to cold."

Link : http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...tory-Summary?p=3794589&viewfull=1#post3794589

 

[amoremotus]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

Could have been a side effect from long term propofol use, and or excessive benzos, or even the flu (fever), according to Dr Shafer. According to what was said during CM's trial, forget about demerol to explain this.

This is also what Kenny said in his email.

It would be interesting to know exactly when it started.

ETA : I was reading Ivy's trial summary, and found this " Paris says one week before his death Michael was complaining about his body temperature would fluctuate from hot to cold."

Link : http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...tory-Summary?p=3794589&viewfull=1#post3794589

Yes, nurse Lee also said he told her that one side of his body was cold while the other was hot. And I think she even read from a book that this was a side effect of Propofol? I am not sure.

But maybe the fireplace was just on for a nice atmosphere. I just thought it was strange that the fireplace was still on after all this time, but since it is a gas fireplace it is not that strange I guess

 

[gerryevans]

If they win the suit then it would be justice I suppose in terms of the damage it will do to AEG, financially and commercially.

It really is all a matter of opinion. Since this MJ mudslinging trial must be, if KJ did win, it’d only be justice to me if she gets nothing. That way both sides lose. Gongaware and Phillips continue to feel the heat for their insensitivity and no one profits off of tearing down MJ.

Jacksons aside, it’s especially disheartening when you think of what Panish and company will get if KJ DOES get an award. With their contingency and expenses, they’ll walk away with close to half of it. Millions and millions of dollars. All for the great job of reducing Michael to “an addicted man and his drug pusher” doctor. Bet their firm will have a big party and celebrate. They should invite Diane Dimond. She shares some of the same feelings about him.

And if AEG does lose, they might not even be hurt commercially. After all, what will they be found guilty of? Complying to the artist’s request for who or what they want?

Concert goers don’t care who is putting on the show. They just care about the artist. And if AEG is going to comply to an artist’s specific request, why wouldn’t the artist want to work with them.

One thing’s for sure, there will be no justice for Michael. NONE.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

I noticed that in opening speach, Panish mentioned MJ burnt accided, Viitiligo and bridge accident as reason for using painkillers. I wonder why Lupus wasn't mentioned, or did Katherine forgot to mention it as she didn't know that?
----------------------
and vitiligo isnt generally painful. if this case wasnt about the family trying to get money by calling mj a d.a this wouldnt even be brought up as its irrelevent as it had nothing to do with his killing. a diversion tactic just like murray when he tried to bring it up.

there certainly will be no justice for mj gerry. he will be lied about dragged through the mud with no way to defend himself. open season to say what u want with no concern of anyone calling u out. but you would have to love and support mj to be bothered about that. but aslong as the family get their money er sorry justice then sacrificing michael is perfectly ok

 

[amoremotus]

Re: Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG (daily threads merged)

You are jumping on the conclusion that MJ was getting Demerol just to get high,
-----------------------
yes someone getting high but only going to kliens a handful of times in one month. and has no demoral in his house or system even though u get withdrawl after 8 hrs.and given amounts that wouldnt cause any addiction. thats abit slack for an addict dont u think?!why someone who claims to be a fan of michael keeps pushing this agenda i dont know (well i do) even when the facts say a very different thing. i thought this board was for those that support michael not those that want to ignore the facts because it doesnt suit the agenda of who they support.its funny cause you see the same agenda pushed by family supporters on the other boards aswell. asnyone would think there was an agenda going on the last four years lol

We know that Michael had an addiction to painkillers AT TIMES in his life. That is a fact.
He also had a dependency on Propofol when he died (if you consider Dr. Shaefer a competent source). I am all for not discussing this all the time, but then please stop downplaying it. Addiction is a serious illness. Of course that does not mean that he was a junkie that was high every day of his life and i do not think the Jacksons (unlike AEG) ever suggested that in this trial.

Michael was a human being, he had his faults, he made mistakes, he had problems. Why can't I be a real fan if I believe that he had some issues? That is just the way it is. It is part of his life and NOTHING to be ashamed of. It is not what I remember him for, but it is part of his story. Whatever comes forth in this trial, it will not change how I feel about Michael. He was a great father, humanitarian, entertainer and artist. ANd that is what he will be remembered for by the world.