Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

[Bubs]

ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 7h
Panish showed picture of MJ's fitting on June 19th and asked if that's how he always looked.
Ortega: No. I didn't see him in T-shirt, so I wouldn't know he was that thin.
Panish: Is that how he always looked?
Ortega: No
P: What was different?
Ortega said MJ was covered when he saw him on June 19th, so he didn't see him like the photo.
O: His body, he looked very thin
P: A little emaciated?
O: Yes
Panish: Did you ever seen his like that before?
Ortega: No

This is the reason I think that Gonga and Randy didn't see it either. They saw MJ less often than KO and always dressed up so I cannot hold it against them that they didn't see how thin MJ was. He also mentioned MJ's chills. Given that MJ was always cold (re testimonies of fireplaces being on in NL and Carolwood) and rehearsal place being like fridge (re KO testimony), no wonder MJ had chills.
-------------------------------------------------
Panish showed email chain "Trouble At The Front".
Ortega said he sent emails to AEG only when he thought it was absolutely necessary.

Panish: And you had a real concern with Dr. Murray?
Ortega: Yes

Ortega said Dr. Murray began the meeting. He said he had a feeling the meeting would be about the night before and the depth of his concerns

I feel bad for KO. He thought it was right thing to contact on AEG people, and when meeting was arranged, he found himself to be subject of it. 19th he tries to call CM many times and leaves messages as CM doesn't asnwer the phone, he sends an email to RP, alerted RP call to CM and meeting was arranged on 20th, and KO is accused by CM for trying to be amateur doctor.
The way KO describes that situation and what was going on at that time, I think CM also fooled RP (during that phone call) and Gonga to believe that KO was being drama queen. RP and Gonga might have belived CM because they too didn't see MJ as sickly thin person that was described to them as MJ wore more clothes on front of them.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Ortega: I was shocked because what he was saying it wasn't at all reflecting of what happened.
Ortega said he excused himself. Dr. Murray said MJ was fine and could handle all responsibilities for the show.
"I was flabbergasted! Because I didn't believe that was possible," Ortega testified, saying he felt hurt, insulted.

Ortega: He (Dr. Murray) was upset with me, and he said I had no right to not let MJ rehearse.
Ortega: Dr. Murray said MJ was physically and emotionally capable to handle all the responsibilities of the performance.
Ortega said Dr. Murray told him to stick with his job and to leave the doctor job to him.

MJ stood up, gave Ortega a hug before he left. "The doctor suggested that MJ had told him one thing and now was saying another" Ortega said

I would love to hear more what else CM said to him at that meeting.
If CM could lie about what happened and lie about MJ's condition to KO, it is totally believable that he did the same thing to RP and Gongaware, and most likely to MJ too.
I see CM was using his well known trick, always try to put the blame on someone else.
---------------------------------

Ortega responded Phillips:
Randy,
I'm at home awaiting your call or instructions. I honestly don't think he is ready for this
Email cont'd: based on his continued physical weakening and deepening emotional state. It is reminiscent of what Karen, Bush, Travis
Email cont'd: and I remembered just before he fainted causing the HBO Concerts to be canceled. There are strong signs of paranoia, anxiety
Email cont'd: and obsessive-like behavior. I think the best thing we can do it is get a top Psychiatrist on to evaluate him ASAP.

and from defences gross:
Ortega said he had been worried about MJ's mental state before during the HBO Concerts in 1995. "I thought he was anxious," he said.
No one from AEG was present during the 95 incident. Ortega said it was different from the 19th, though. In 95, he was anxious, unhappy.
Ortega explained the 1995 one was the only experience he had with MJ that was similar.

If that is the case, no wonder MJ didn't want to tour anymore if it made him to behave like that (creative mind works overtime)) and that also could explain why Karen wrote about MJ setting himself to fail?
Is Putnam trying to prove that it was pattern that MJ behaved like that everytime during preparations for concerts?

-----------------------------------
"There was no question in my mind that Michael wanted to do the shows," Ortega said.

Had MJ said that he cannot do the show, it would have been ok with all parties. AEG had cancellation insurance (if I remember right), Mj would have had to pay for advances back, and he would have been alive. But CM gave false information to all parties regarding MJ's health and those people believed what doctor said.
-----------------------------------------

Gongaware called Ortega from the hospital. "Our boy is gone," Ortega said Gongaware told him.


I like the way Gonga said "our boy", like MJ was one of the lads.

I'm looking forward rest of KO's testimony. To me he feels like person who is genuine and cared Michael, nothing like Karen fake who was supposed to be Michael's friend.

 

[Mechi]

that talk about seeing Michael like this or that... his weight was not the problem... the coroners report is the fact on the table and it says clearly Michaels weight was ok for an adult man of his age.
It's really so much bla bla bla bla!

 

[ivy]

This is what I find interesting: negative feelings about Michael’s family that were not discussed publicly where Michael could personally view those feelings and react to those feelings. I also find examples, like the one above, interesting. Michael was in a position to be taken advantage of by Vacarro and he received sympathy. The same man took advantage of Michael’s family member(s) and that member(s) received a negative backlash.

well first of many negative feelings about his family started after his death due to their actions. I don't think many people cared about Michael's family one way or another when Michael was alive. so it's pretty hard to discuss these in a setting where Michael could react - he's dead.

Sure Vaccaro got the contents of the storage warehouse due to nonpayment but Michael sued him twice, stopped the auction of underwear and so on. So I don't see him being taken advantage of, successful or not he fought against it.

Even if we say that Katherine were taken advantage of Vaccaro / Mann and could not realize her own property being offered back to her but still what is her excuse after all the lawsuit from Estate and when all the facts are out in the open? Why did she continue to associate with them and defend them against the Estate?

There are Some fans so hell bent on being pro Jacksons that they would defend or make excuses that goes against Michael . For example defending Katherine's book while ignoring Vaccaro's involvement and his interactions with Michael. Suddenly everything Vaccaro did become okay because Katherine the queen is involved and put her seal on it. Suddenly we are expected to forget Vaccaro's past and support Katherine's book. Suddenly we are expected to ignore the deal with Brett Livingstone-strong to infringe Michael's copyrighted art. You are angry about AEG- Michael contract / interactions but where's the anger that in her deal Katherine only gets 33% of the profits ( Michael got 90%) and Michael's kids are contracted to them for life for a measly $5,000 to $10,000 a month? when did putting Michael's kids into the contract deals became okay? What is interesting is that some people suddenly ignore all of these things and act like some fans criticize Jacksons for no reason.

Some fans are very concerned any amount of money will go to Katherine for fear she may give any amount to her living children which is her right to do. For her to be awarded monies it would first have to be proven that AEG was culpable in her son’s passing. If that is proven, she deserves damages just like any one else in her unenviable position.

I'm not talking about some fans. I'm talking some other fans who doesn't see civil trials as justice.

You would have to ask those fans. Maybe those fans are not interested in business entities squabbling. As you said, they can receive information regarding the same events in the civil trial.

or perhaps those fans are interested in Katherine to win money and AEG to lose or vice versa. So it's not really about Justice or Truth hence seeking information from all sources.

Why would the judge tell AEG they could have sued if they had to wait for this trial to be resolved first or it was not possible? They could have suffered financially from Michael’s passing, even though they are not related by blood or marriage to him. Michael was AEG’s business partner and his death could have resulted in a business interruption or loss. Of course, there was no business interruption or lost. In fact, they recouped the pre-production budget in full from the estate and profited from TII so no valid claim there.

What I said was they can't sue for wrongful death but I have given 3 other possible lawsuits so it shows why the judge asked them "why didn't you sue Murray?". The first two (employer suing for gross negligence or breach of contract) doesn't require them to wait but it requires them to claim an employee-employer relationship. Now given that we know AEG's position is "no signature no valid contract no employment" it's not realistic to expect them to file those two type of lawsuits. It's plain simple logic.

and if you believe "there was no business interruption or loss" and "no valid claim there" , Why would you expect AEG to sue. Even in a wrongful death lawsuit there's two set of damages - one economic damages which is loss income and the other one is non-economic damages which is loss of love etc. So even in your not legally possible AEG filing a wrongful death lawsuit scennario, they would have no economic damages due to no loss of business and even making profits, do you expect them to claim loss of love and friendship and guidance of Michael? That doesnt make sense to me.

Restitution is not always symbolic as damages are not always symbolic. Many receive restitution in full. Why would anyone pursue restitution if it was almost never received in its entirety and was almost always symbolic?

Who said "almost never received in its entirely"? I did not. I said there's no reason to give it up even though you might not receive it in full because it still gives you control. Goldmans are just an example of a case when not receiving the money in full doesn't matter.

Some fans believe the only living persons responsible for stopping the doctor from profiting from Michael’s passing is the Jacksons and that is not true. If the doctor could somehow hinder TII profits, he would have most likely been sued by AEG.

and if you claim AEG made profit from Michael's death or at least recovered what they lost from TII -which is the case according to Lloyds lawsuit- then we know AEG has no basis for a financial damages lawsuit against Murray - as of now. So it logically brings us back to the Jacksons.

The Goldman example again? Sigh. They BROUGHT THE RIGHTS to Simpson’s book and made arrangements to PUBLISH IT. Simpson REFUSED to continue with the publishing of the book (which means it was NOT released by him or the publishing company who offered him the deal) because the monies would go to restitution. The book sales were NOT successful. Many saw the Goldmans as greedy because they published the book instead of ensuring it was never published. Simpson was allowed to keep the advance he received for the book as restitution only applied to future earnings.

Harper / collins were to release the book, the public protested it, Harper / collins cancelled the book but it got leaked. Goldmans went to court and got the book rights as to satisfy the $33.5 Million monetary judgment. They decided to released the book with the title change and their commentary added. Nicole Simpsons father did not want the book released.

My point still stays the same. The restitution gave Goldmans control over anything OJ did and might do. I can't be any more clearer than that.

Please understand that no media outlet will admit to paying a convict for an interview (book, etc.). If these outlets truly wanted the interview with a convict, it would be based on public demand and any monies would be floated to family members, friends, etc. ANYONE except the convict. How do you suggest receiving restitution if the convict does not receive the monies personally? How do the Jacksons gain any legal control in this scenario?

nobody said it's perfect and there might be ways to getting out of paying any money as restitution but does it mean that Jacksons shouldn't try? Just give up? Why not just for the principle of it especially if this is not about money but justice? Why not still have the restitution and hold on to it just for the chance to be able to try to do something? Why give up?

 

[Korgnex]

It's for the same reason why you can read people write "AEG-sponsored smear campaign" or "Estate-controlled media" and other conspiracy stuff. Those people should try harder thinking to realize their own contradictions and the giant gap in their comprehension...

 

[LastTear]

Some fans are so so hell bent on being pro Jacksons that they would defend or make excuses that goes against Michael. For example defending Katherine's book while ignoring Vaccaro's involvement and his interactions with Michael. Suddenly everything Vaccaro did become okay because Katherine the queen is involved and put her seal on it. Suddenly we are expected to forget Vaccaro's past and support Katherine's book. You are angry about AEG- Michael contract / interactions but where's the anger that in her deal Katherine only gets 33% of the profits ( Michael got 90%) and Michael's kids are contracted to them for life for a measly $5,000 to $10,000 a month? when did putting Michael's kids into the contract deals became okay? What is interesting is that some people suddenly ignore all of these things and act like some fans criticize Jacksons for no reason.

Quoted for the truth! You go girl.

 

[Bubs]

Re Katherine not asking restitution. I had already forgotten these motion to exclude but poster @ lsa reminded me of them:

Exclude the mention that Katherine and MJ’s kids did not sue Murray

Katherine’s lawyers state that they expect AEG to argue that Katherine could have sued Murray but choose not to because she was looking for a deep pocketed defendant and they want the judge to exclude such claims.

Exclude benefits Katherine and MJ’s kids receive from MJ Estate

Katherine’s lawyers state that they expect AEG to argue that Katherine and MJ’s kids are receiving money from MJ Estate and they will use this to reduce the any amount of damages the jury might award so they want the judge to exclude such claims.

These motions to excude from Katherine's side weren't asked for nothing and not asking restitution from CM shouts out: more money

 

[Bubs]

This is why I have a lot of respect for AEG Live. They supported Michael Jackson to put on the best Shows for the 02 Arena. Do you think Allgood Entertainment would have? No. They did not have the money that AEG Live did. Besides, as Michael stated in his book, sometimes too many cooks can ruin the stew. Meaning family can wreak havoc on your projects. I rest my case. Just watch "This Is It," and see how great the production was and Michael Jackson would have returned to the grandeur of the greatest Entertainer who ever lived!

Going by the testimonies so far, I tend to agree with you as I have no reason to believe other than they wanted TII and espeacially MJ to be successful. Perhaps they didn't love MJ as Kenny described in his testimony, but they certainly tried a lot to make it work for MJ and tried to get all sort of people (therapist, nutrionist etc) on bord to help MJ.

Ortega said there wasn’t any reason for him to think that Phillips and Gongaware didn’t still love Jackson.
He said he believed the execs cared for Jackson “because of the way they supported him throughout the entire venture.”

 

[LastTear]

I did not realise Brian Panish read out the impact statement for the Jacksons at the Murray trial.

They appear to be making full use of their new celebrity.

@PanishSheaBoyle: Keep up with the #MichaelJackson wrongful death trial here:


http://t.co/wSxNsFzD2n #lawsuit #MJ #JacksonVsAEG

 

[marebear]

I feel bad for Kenny. First the Murray trial and now this one. I think he did really care and respect Michael and wanted to help him give the shows he wanted to do. He was stuck in between Murray and AEG. He knew Michael wanted to put out a quality show and wanted him to be successful. But he also wanted Michael to be healthy and happy. I think he sensed or felt something wasn't right but didn't know what was really going on.

 

[jrsfan]

I feel bad for Kenny. First the Murray trial and now this one. I think he did really care and respect Michael and wanted to help him give the shows he wanted to do. He was stuck in between Murray and AEG. He knew Michael wanted to put out a quality show and wanted him to be successful. But he also wanted Michael to be healthy and happy. I think he sensed or felt something wasn't right but didn't know what was really going on.

I thought Ortega was rude & disrespectful to Michael in This Is it.

 

[myosotis]

that talk about seeing Michael like this or that... his weight was not the problem... the coroners report is the fact on the table and it says clearly Michaels weight was ok for an adult man of his age.
It's really so much bla bla bla bla!

I wonder if rapid weight loss (combined with intervening periods of medication) led to some of Michael's reported symptoms. I understand that he may have been rehearsing at home (and so possibly losing weight through dancing and a limited diet) , and I'm sure I recall seeing that this clothes kept having to be 'taken in' in those last weeks as he lost weight.

Here are some articles about the possible effects of rapid weight loss in athletes, who often have to achieve 'target weights' before competition:


Weight loss in combat sports: physiological, psychological and performance effects
Emerson Franchini,1 Ciro José Brito,2 and Guilherme Giannini Artioli1,

Extract:
Rapid weight loss (RWL) and competitive success

Several investigations have reported that athletes undergoing RWL presented decreased short-term memory, vigor, concentration and self-esteem as well as increased confusion, rage, fatigue, depression and isolation [6,26-29], all of which may hamper competitive performance. For example, decreased short-term memory can impact the ability of an athlete to follow his/her coach’s instructions before a match. Likewise, the lack of concentration and focus can affect the ability of the athlete to deal with distractions during high-level competitions, resulting in poor performance. A low self-esteem may result in difficult to consider the possibility of winning a match, especially against high-level opponents. Confusion can negatively affect the capacity of making decisions during the match and rage may result in lack of control and, despite the importance of aggressiveness for combat sports, excessive rage may increase the possibility of illegal actions. Depression and isolation can result in difficulty in coping with rigorous training sessions.

Physiological effects of rapid weight loss
Despite conflicting evidence, most studies indicate that weight loss decreases both aerobic and anaerobic performance. While aerobic performance impairments have been attributed to dehydration, decreased plasma volume, increased heart rate, hydroelectrolytic disturbances, impaired thermoregulation and muscle glycogen depletion [30], decreased anaerobic performance is mainly related to reduced buffering capacity, glycogen depletion and hydroelectrolytic disturbances [30,35].
J Int Soc Sports Nutr v.9; 2012

Food restriction, performance, psychological state and lipid values in judo athletes
Abstract
Dietary intake, plasma lipids, lipoprotein and apolipoprotein levels, anthropometric measurements and anaerobic performance were studied in eleven judo athletes during a period of weight maintenance (T1) and after a 7d food restriction (T2). Dietary data were collected using a 7-day diet record. Nutrient analysis indicated that these athletes followed a low carbohydrate diet whatever the period of the investigation. .......Regardless of psychological parameters, tension, anger, fatigue and confusion were significantly elevated from T1 to T2; vigor was significantly lower. The data indicated that a 7-day food restriction adversely affects the physiology and psychology of judo athletes and impairs physical performance, possibly due to inadequate carbohydrate and micronutrients.

Filaire E, Maso F, Degoutte F, Jouanel P, Lac G.
Int J Sports Med. 2001 Aug;22(6):454-9

 

[qbee]

I thought Ortega was rude & disrespectful to Michael in This Is it.

I watched it many times and didn't see him being rude. (I guess you are speaking of when MJ was complaining about the ear monitors being to loud and Kenny worked with him to get the volume correct level for him) They worked it out. I guess everyone sees things differently. IMO I don't see reason to make a big deal of it or ANY disrespect toward MJ.

 

[jrsfan]

I watched it many times and didn't see him being rude. (I guess you are speaking of when MJ was complaining about the ear monitors being to loud and Kenny worked with him to get the volume correct level for him) They worked it out. I guess everyone sees things differently. IMO I don't see reason to make a big deal of it or ANY disrespect toward MJ.

There was also the time in front of the screen in smooth criminal. To me it was not necessarily what was said but the tone. As a mom, I notice alot of tone & that is very subtle. Also alot of times (& this is my impression in the movie) it was like he would show video or plans about things & it was like Ortega had already decided how something was going to be & Michael's opinion was not valued & it was just to be rubberstamped. The same with the scene with Bearden at Center Staging. My impression was that Michael was not happy with that & that is probably why he said to Karen "Why can't I choose?" She did testify that Michael did not like Zaldy. I think Ortega was very manipulative & I don't care for it.

However I respect your position to see it different.:flowers:

 

[8701girl]

I thought Ortega was rude & disrespectful to Michael in This Is it.

I too never saw kenny being rude or disrespectful to michael in TII movie , i saw kenny being sweet & encouraging to mj

 

[Ashtanga]

ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 7h
Panish showed picture of MJ's fitting on June 19th and asked if that's how he always looked.
Ortega: No. I didn't see him in T-shirt, so I wouldn't know he was that thin.
Panish: Is that how he always looked?
Ortega: No
P: What was different?
Ortega said MJ was covered when he saw him on June 19th, so he didn't see him like the photo.
O: His body, he looked very thin
P: A little emaciated?
O: Yes
Panish: Did you ever seen his like that before?
Ortega: No

This is the reason I think that Gonga and Randy didn't see it either. They saw MJ less often than KO and always dressed up so I cannot hold it against them that they didn't see how thin MJ was. He also mentioned MJ's chills. Given that MJ was always cold (re testimonies of fireplaces being on in NL and Carolwood) and rehearsal place being like fridge (re KO testimony), no wonder MJ had chills.
-------------------------------------------------
Panish showed email chain "Trouble At The Front".
Ortega said he sent emails to AEG only when he thought it was absolutely necessary.

Panish: And you had a real concern with Dr. Murray?
Ortega: Yes

Ortega said Dr. Murray began the meeting. He said he had a feeling the meeting would be about the night before and the depth of his concerns

I feel bad for KO. He thought it was right thing to contact on AEG people, and when meeting was arranged, he found himself to be subject of it. 19th he tries to call CM many times and leaves messages as CM doesn't asnwer the phone, he sends an email to RP, alerted RP call to CM and meeting was arranged on 20th, and KO is accused by CM for trying to be amateur doctor.
The way KO describes that situation and what was going on at that time, I think CM also fooled RP (during that phone call) and Gonga to believe that KO was being drama queen. RP and Gonga might have belived CM because they too didn't see MJ as sickly thin person that was described to them as MJ wore more clothes on front of them.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Ortega: I was shocked because what he was saying it wasn't at all reflecting of what happened.
Ortega said he excused himself. Dr. Murray said MJ was fine and could handle all responsibilities for the show.
"I was flabbergasted! Because I didn't believe that was possible," Ortega testified, saying he felt hurt, insulted.

Ortega: He (Dr. Murray) was upset with me, and he said I had no right to not let MJ rehearse.
Ortega: Dr. Murray said MJ was physically and emotionally capable to handle all the responsibilities of the performance.
Ortega said Dr. Murray told him to stick with his job and to leave the doctor job to him.

MJ stood up, gave Ortega a hug before he left. "The doctor suggested that MJ had told him one thing and now was saying another" Ortega said

I would love to hear more what else CM said to him at that meeting.
If CM could lie about what happened and lie about MJ's condition to KO, it is totally believable that he did the same thing to RP and Gongaware, and most likely to MJ too.
I see CM was using his well known trick, always try to put the blame on someone else.
---------------------------------

Ortega responded Phillips:
Randy,
I'm at home awaiting your call or instructions. I honestly don't think he is ready for this
Email cont'd: based on his continued physical weakening and deepening emotional state. It is reminiscent of what Karen, Bush, Travis
Email cont'd: and I remembered just before he fainted causing the HBO Concerts to be canceled. There are strong signs of paranoia, anxiety
Email cont'd: and obsessive-like behavior. I think the best thing we can do it is get a top Psychiatrist on to evaluate him ASAP.

and from defences gross:
Ortega said he had been worried about MJ's mental state before during the HBO Concerts in 1995. "I thought he was anxious," he said.
No one from AEG was present during the 95 incident. Ortega said it was different from the 19th, though. In 95, he was anxious, unhappy.
Ortega explained the 1995 one was the only experience he had with MJ that was similar.

If that is the case, no wonder MJ didn't want to tour anymore if it made him to behave like that (creative mind works overtime)) and that also could explain why Karen wrote about MJ setting himself to fail?
Is Putnam trying to prove that it was pattern that MJ behaved like that everytime during preparations for concerts?

-----------------------------------
"There was no question in my mind that Michael wanted to do the shows," Ortega said.

Had MJ said that he cannot do the show, it would have been ok with all parties. AEG had cancellation insurance (if I remember right), Mj would have had to pay for advances back, and he would have been alive. But CM gave false information to all parties regarding MJ's health and those people believed what doctor said.
-----------------------------------------

Gongaware called Ortega from the hospital. "Our boy is gone," Ortega said Gongaware told him.


I like the way Gonga said "our boy", like MJ was one of the lads.

I'm looking forward rest of KO's testimony. To me he feels like person who is genuine and cared Michael, nothing like Karen fake who was supposed to be Michael's friend.

I have great difficulty understanding why Ortega and others (which were so close to Michael) have not had a serious talk directly with Michael. :scratch:Everybody talking with AEG, Murray and so on ... and bla bla bla. BUT with Michael? Nobody spoke directly with him to try to understand what was happening - ie, hear from the mouth of the Michael the facts! :bugeyed WHY? What was the difficulty? :blink: People can give me thousands of explanations about it, BUT... Sorry ... I'm NEVER going to understand this. *big sigh*

 

[peace.love.mj]

^Honestly, I just feel like that wasn't something that was discussed with Michael...those kind of issues. Idk. Now looking back it looks silly that they wouldn't but they didn't know truly how serious things were. I'm sure if Kenny tried to ask Michael about it, he would say he was fine, just tired, etc. I can see how it would be very difficult to try to get through to Michael on an issue like this. He WAS extremely private. And obviously not in the best state. Who knows.

 

[Petrarose]

So now being a mom helps you see that Kenny is disrespectful to Michael? Sometimes when we see and hear things, our insecurities, experiences, and emotions come into play which affect how we understand what we see and hear.

Another dull day in court. About the flowers: why didn't the fans give it to Katherine outside the courthouse. It seems they tried to give it in the courthouse, which is why it was not allowed.

Taj found some notes in Michael's house; I wonder what else they found in the house?

 

[Tygger]

See, now that to me is interesting. I think you will find that the family were discussed whilst Michael was alive, sure they are discussed more now but that is only because some people are now interested in all things Jackson so this as given them a career boost. You really think that six years ago anyone would care if LaToya got a nail infection?

well first of many negative feelings about his family started after his death due to their actions. I don't think many people cared about Michael's family one way or another when Michael was alive. so it's pretty hard to discuss these in a setting where Michael could react - he's dead.

I am clearly speaking of some fans negative backlash against the family after Michael passed. Last Tear felt negative feelings for the family for an estimate of 20 years as per Last Tear’s post so it is not true those feelings started after Michael’s passing for Last Tear.

@Tygger, Why compare Vaccarro advertising etc of Michaels soiled underwear to any advantage taking of the Jackson clan.

What makes you say Michael was taken advantage of by Vaccaro? Sure Vaccaro got the contents of the storage warehouse due to nonpayment but Michael sued him twice, stopped the auction of underwear and so on. So I don't see him being taken advantage of, successful or not he fought against it.

Even if we say that Katherine were taken advantage of Vaccaro / Mann and could not realize her own property being offered back to her but still what is her excuse after all the lawsuit from Estate and when all the facts are out in the open? Why did she continue to associate with them and defend them against the Estate?

Vaccarro took advantage of Michael did he not? Vaccarro took advantage of Michael’s family member(s) as well. I will admit I do not know all of the details of this deal. Ivy, Last Tear, if you believe Michael’s family member(s) worked with Vaccarro with full knowledge of his unsavory actions towards Michael and with malicious intent against Michael and his children then, that is your belief but, it is not mine. It is no secret the family did/does not get along with the executors and vice versa. It could be Katherine made a choice to continue with someone who took advantage of her to spite the executors which in turn may have been to her detriment. Maybe she learned from the error, maybe not. Some fans do the very same.

Again, I cannot speak for all fans. Tell me when I defended the family over Michael and I will speak to that. I have not spoken about any of the events Ivy mentioned. I have spoken against the pre-production budget mushrooming without one authorized signature which was the protocol AEG set forth not Michael. I did not complain that Michael would get a 90% split of profits.

And Jermaines own words 'the lioness always takes care of the cubs'

I do not understand Jermaine’s words as a response to the quote you posted above it.

A meda outlet has already paid for his telephone voice recordings, and if this trial continues to remove responsibility from Murray then I don't think anyone will be ashamed to admit paying him.

Re book/film deals, he would most likely receive an advance so he will make money regardless of how many copies sell.

I said there's no reason to give it up even though you might not receive it in full because it still gives you control.

nobody said it's perfect and there might be ways to getting out of paying any money as restitution but does it mean that Jacksons shouldn't try? Just give up? Why not just for the principle of it especially if this is not about money but justice? Why not still have the restitution and hold on to it just for the chance to be able to try to do something? Why give up?

What media outlet DIRECTLY paid the doctor for telephone recordings? The doctor’s responsibility for Michael’s passing is being removed by the defense in this trial. If the defense was to succeed in this trial (which I do not believe they will), the doctor will remain a convict. Only a successful appeal will remove that title from him.

The doctor did not receive an advance for his documentary. Those monies were floated to his legal team. No one will pay the doctor directly so how does restitution fix that? Again, I do not see a financial windfall for this convict but, some fans here do for their own reasons that I do not understand.

Let’s say the Jacksons did sue for restitution and now the doctor’s family receives millions for the doctor’s story. The Jacksons cannot control that and they cannot stop it. How will fans put the responsibility of the doctor’s story being successfully sold on the Jacksons who have no control in that situation; it is the fans (and the general public) who have the control in this scenario. This concept seems to be ignored and/or is not understood.

I maintained my position. Logic would tell you that the judge would not suggest AEG could sue if they had to wait for the result of this trial (proving employer/independent contractor) or it was not legally possible to do, correct? You believe the only way AEG could be eligible for damages is through an employer/independent contractor relationship and I am maintaining that is not the only method.

AEG would be eligible for wrongful death if they could show, as Michael’s business partners; they suffered a business interruption or lost. They did not suffer a business interruption or lost as they were made whole by the estate and profited from TII. This type of lawsuit would only include economic damage lost not non-economic as it is a business relationship.

Let’s say there was no TII footage and Michael’s estate was not solvent. AEG would not be able to be made whole by the estate and they would not be able to profit from TII minus merchandising. They would have a chance to then sue the doctor for damages. Very simple and actually quite sensible.

Harper / collins were to release the book, the public protested it, Harper / collins cancelled the book but it got leaked. Goldmans went to court and got the book rights as to satisfy the $33.5 Million monetary judgment. They decided to released the book with the title change and their commentary added. Nicole Simpsons father did not want the book released.

My point still stays the same. The restitution gave Goldmans control over anything OJ did and might do. I can't be any more clearer than that.

Again, Simpson did not want that book released because he did not want to satisfy the Goldmans’ restitution. He controlled that. The public did not want that book released which caused the publishing company to not release the book. The public controlled that. It was NOT released until the Goldmans sued for the rights and they arranged for that book to be published. They did NOT have control, fought to gain control, and that control backfired on THEM. Many in the public thought the Goldmans were GREEDY because they published the book to collect restitution when the public demand did NOT support the book being released. Google it. It is there.

Admission of the contract or evidence of its terms was necessary to show what was at stake for Jackson if he could not meet his contractual obligations, which was pertinent to establish his state of mind which may have explained his conduct on the day he died, and supported the defense theory of the case," the 24-page brief states.

Bubs, I am cautiously responding: Wass is referring to Michael’s contract with AEG that was not admitted into the criminal trial; not the doctor’s contract that is being discussed in the civil trial.

Taj had wonderful memories about his uncle. I for one enjoyed hearing those stories about Michael. This stood out:

ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts
"Everyone else is making money off of me, I want to take care of my family," Taj said MJ told him.
ABC7 Court News ‏@ABC7Courts
Cahan asked if Taj was being paid to take care of MJ's storage. He said at first he didn't want to get paid, but MJ insisted.

 

[Bubs]

I have great difficulty understanding why Ortega and others (which were so close to Michael) have not had a serious talk directly with Michael. :scratch:Everybody talking with AEG, Murray and so on ... and bla bla bla. BUT with Michael? Nobody spoke directly with him to try to understand what was happening - ie, hear from the mouth of the Michael the facts! :bugeyed WHY? What was the difficulty? :blink: People can give me thousands of explanations about it, BUT... Sorry ... I'm NEVER going to understand this. *big sigh*

Maybe some did, but they weren't asked about it in trial (wouldn't that qualify as hearsay as MJ is not here to testify those things?), and some didn't like Karen fake (friend of MJ's 27 yearsuke

 

[Bubs]

My thoughts of TAJ's testimony and ABC7 last tweets from KO testimony

ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 15h
Putnam asked if Ortega understands why Phillips was having difficulty figuring out what was going on.
In one hand, Ortega was saying there was a problem. On the other hand, Dr. Murray said everything was ok. Ortega answered yes.

Thats what I was thinking that RP was told something by someone, and then doctor says something else, usually what doctor says, wins.

It seems to me that plaintiffs has done trying to prove AEG hired CM, and heading towards how much money MJ would have made as next witness will be Arty Erk -- an entertainment earnings expert.
-------------------------------------

Yesterday, some fans brought flowers for Mrs. Jackson. They were not allowed to give them to her, though.

I wonder if Panish would have thrown hissy fit if some people had done the same for AEG people
------------------------------------------------------------------

ABC7 Court News ?@ABC7Courts 13h
One note reads:
Tohme away from my $ now
No contact
Where's my house (underlined twice)

Oh Michael, that made me laugh Where is my house and Tohme away from my money.
---------------------------------
I'm feeling odd about this
First there were long talk about how MJ used to write notes and if TAJ is qualified to regognise MJ's handwriting, then comes this:
Taj said he's familiar with Paris' handwriting, has seen her doing homework.
Note from Paris to MJ:
Dear Daddy,
I love you so much & I'm so happy I got a goodnight hug. Sleep well, I love you & good night.
Note cont'd: I'll see you tomorrow! XOX, goodnight and lots of love. Paris Jackson

I have seen notes from Paris to her dad but none of them were signed Paris Jackson?????
I have a bad feeling about that and having thoughts of reasons Paris' recent suicide attempt.
We'll see what is going to come out further in trial:bugeyed
-----------------------------------------------------
In 2008, MJ was living in Las Vegas. Taj saw him regularly during that time. "He was definitely happy and healthy, yes," Taj testified.

and

Taj said he never saw MJ use drugs. "I didn't even know he had moved," Taj said about MJ moving in to Carolwood house in 2008.

How odd that he talks the things MJ was supposed to do with them after TII, and how close they were, saw MJ regularly in 2008, but MJ didn't bother tell him he has moved to Carolwood????
----------------------------------------------
Taj said that when they learned MJ was going on tour, they stayed away and gave him space. They knew they could be a distraction for MJ.

When siblings and parents learned MJ was going on tour, they started pestering him.
------------------------------------------------------
Taj heard MJ was recording an album for the news or family members. The album started in 2008, Taj said.

What!!! I don't believe for secong MJ would record an album for the family members.
I wouldn't be surprised if later in the years, family briongs out an album with good songs on it, I bet those songs are from hard drives that family (LaToya didn't give to the estate).
-------------------------------------------
Taj said MJ wanted to put the storage facilities in Taj's name.
Taj: There were very few people my uncle trusted.
Taj: He had been betrayed his whole life. He knew he could trust me and if something happened to him I would do the right thing.
Taj said his mom did the same thing, put her valuables in a safe. However, his mom's possession in the storage locker were auctioned off.
Taj: A company sued our family for not performing at a certain event and they put a lien on the storage.
Taj: The storage unit got tied up and unfortunately we became the victims of it.

He is talking about Vaccaro thingy. They became victims????? I think everybody knows the story behing Vaccaro but they are no victims. When you buy something, you pay for it.
-------------------------------

Taj said MJ had sentimental things in the storage that he wanted to keep for his children.
Taj said the storage was full with stuff from Neverland. It had furniture, arts, arcade games.
MJ had 2 storage lockers. One in Vegas is half of the size of the courtroom (30x37 feet) and the one in Buellton was at least 4 times bigger
Cahan asked if Taj was being paid to take care of MJ's storage. He said at first he didn't want to get paid, but MJ insisted.
"Everyone else is making money off of me, I want to take care of my family," Taj said MJ told him.

I hope the estate knows about those storages and keeps tab on what is there.
Funny that both of the cousing says that first they refused to take money off from MJ but MJ insisted. Like TJ said at first he didn't want to get paid looking after PPB, but Katherine insisted.
Yeah right.
That last thing TAJ said made me laugh, bold lie. TAJ and TJ have both testified that MJ wanted them to made on their pown and work hard for their goal, like himself did when he was trying to make it. To MJ to say he wanted to take care of his family is something that I just cannot believe. He might have taken care of KJ up to certain time, but at some stage he stopped supporting KJ as Havenhurst about to go on foreclosure and bills weren't paid.
----------------------------------

Taj said after MJ died he went to Carolwood house to collect some of MJ's belongings. He said he wanted to keep them for his cousins.
Taj doesn't know when he went to Carolwood house. Rebbie and her daughter, Janet, Katherine, possibly Trent and 1 of his brothers were there

(FYI TAJ, you went there as soon as family heard MJ's passing)

Taj doesn't remember seeing La Toya that day.

(Yeah right, Latoya's business partner Jeffre was there but not Latoya? Of course she was there snooping under the carpets looking for money)

"It's a time I'd rather forget," Taj said.
Taj doesn't remember who handled him the box. It was a cardboard storage box.
Taj: The idea of going there was to preserve the stuff. It's something someone can sell on eBay for hundreds of thousands of dollars

(Yeah, Rebbie can tell you all about, after all she did it)

He said it could be seen it was documents, that he threw in some stuff as well, but 95% of the stuff was already in the box.
Taj said he only stayed in his uncle's master bedroom, closet and bathroom.
"The box was given to me in the master bedroom, I just assumed the documents were from that area," Taj said.
Taj took the box to his house. He said he skimmed through some of the documents. This was in the Summer of 2009.
Taj turned over the box of documents to Sandra Ribera, one of the Jacksons attorney early this year.

(Wth???? He kept that box of documents all this time, never gave it to the estate, but decided to pass it to KJ lawyer this year??? How creepy. I wonder if the estate wants those documents now that TAJ brought it out that he had MJ's docs?)

The lawsuit was filed in 2010, Cahan said. Taj: "I don't even know they remembered I had the box."
"I protected that box with my life," Taj said. He kept it hidden in his closet of his house.
He turned over the entire box to his lawyer.

(His lawyer? Is Ribeira his lawyer too? If he kept the box hidden in his closet and didn't know if "they" remembered that he had the box, what made him to decide and give that box to Ribeira of all people? Fishy if you ask me)

Taj said he was given two computers from the Carolwood house.
One was a computer with music, one was a computer used by the security team, Taj said.
Taj is still working with MJ's Estate.
Taj: It was known Estate was looking for music for MJ's new album. I'm assuming Jeffrey knew I was helping Estate out in that aspect of it.
"He handed them to me," Taj said. They were Mac Towers. Taj is not sure whether he got the screen as well or not.
Jeffrey Phillips, business partner of my aunt La Toya, gave him the computers, Taj said. He was at the Hayvenhurst house.
The music computer was given to the executors of Michael's estate, Taj said.
"The Estate was looking for 4 hard drives with music in it," Taj said. He thought that's what was being given to him.

(He says he couldn't remember if Latoya was in the house but Jeffre was and took MJ hard drives. I want to know why Latoya's busines parter was in the house and what business he had to take MJ computers or in matter of anything? Creeps)

-----------------------------------------------------------------
After "TII" tour ended, MJ and Taj would make movies. "I think when TII ended, he would've shifted his focus to films primarily," Taj said.

(What? What I heard from MJ's siblings, he was going on tour with them?
Funny that last 10 years of MJ's life, he hardly did anything with any family members, but after he died, those family members comes out and tells that MJ was going on tour with them, wanted to take care of his family,was going to make movies with them and etc)
------------------------
MJ had his own record label, MJJ. Taj said MJ was concerned in putting 3T under his label in case something went wrong they would blame him.

Maybe that was MJ's exuse for not signing them to his label, but MJ knew time has passed for 3T and they weren't working hard enough towards their goal. Family seemed to take advance of MJ and didn't work as hard as they could, because they wanted MJ to do the hard work for them. Course of Michael's.
--------------------------------

I had a giggle of defences little blunder with Nancy Grace and Nanny mistake
That made me think of that defence has been monitoring family members twitters. I'm looking forward certain family members on stand and what they are going to say about twits.

 

[LastTear]

@Tygger

I am clearly speaking of some fans negative backlash against the family after Michael passed. Last Tear felt negative feelings for the family for an estimate of 20 years as per Last Tear’s post so it is not true those feelings started after Michael’s passing for Last Tear.

I posted about my feelings or opinions to show that it's not so clear cut that any negative feelings some fans have did not necessarily only begin after Michael passed. For me, the disappointment (negativity) has grown substantially since Michael passed.

I have always given credit when and where it's due and see the good and bad in everyone.

I do not understand Jermaine’s words as a response to the quote you posted above it.

Apologies, I missed a quote.

What media outlet DIRECTLY paid the doctor for telephone recordings? The doctor’s responsibility for Michael’s passing is being removed by the defense in this trial. If the defense was to succeed in this trial (which I do not believe they will), the doctor will remain a convict. Only a successful appeal will remove that title from him.


The doctor did not receive an advance for his documentary. Those monies were floated to his legal team. No one will pay the doctor directly so how does restitution fix that? Again, I do not see a financial windfall for this convict but, some fans here do for their own reasons that I do not understand.

Let’s say the Jacksons did sue for restitution and now the doctor’s family receives millions for the doctor’s story. The Jacksons cannot control that and they cannot stop it. How will fans put the responsibility of the doctor’s story being successfully sold on the Jacksons who have no control in that situation; it is the fans (and the general public) who have the control in this scenario. This concept seems to be ignored and/or is not understood.

I don't know the law but I'm pretty certain something would be in place to prevent Murray from indirectly profiting. Also you seem to be ignoring my post regarding advances for book deals etc.

I don't know how you can think it should be AEG's responsibility to sue Murray over Michael's own family. When I'm talking about restitution I'm not talking about money in your pocket, I'm talking about protecting ones loved one and preventing the person who caused their death from profiting - in any way.

Did OJ profit from that book? No. Therefore, you cannot say the Goldmans failed.

Vaccarro took advantage of Michael did he not? Vaccarro took advantage of Michael’s family member(s) as well. I will admit I do not know all of the details of this deal . Ivy, Last Tear, if you believe Michael’s family member(s) worked with Vaccarro with full knowledge of his unsavory actions towards Michael and with malicious intent against Michael and his children then, that is your belief but, it is not mine. It is no secret the family did/does not get along with the executors and vice versa. It could be Katherine made a choice to continue with someone who took advantage of her to spite the executors which in turn may have been to heowr detriment. Maybe she learned from the error, maybe not. Some fans do the very same.

But you know some details?

'Some fans do the very same' - I don't understand that comment.

 

[serendipity]

I'm not sure why Taj's testimony was necessary. Absolutely irrelevant IMO.

"Everyone else is making money off of me, I want to take care of my family," Taj said MJ told him.

Funny that both of the cousing says that first they refused to take money off from MJ but MJ insisted. Like TJ said at first he didn't want to get paid looking after PPB, but Katherine insisted.
Yeah right.
That last thing TAJ said made me laugh, bold lie. TAJ and TJ have both testified that MJ wanted them to made on their pown and work hard for their goal, like himself did when he was trying to make it. To MJ to say he wanted to take care of his family is something that I just cannot believe. He might have taken care of KJ up to certain time, but at some stage he stopped supporting KJ as Havenhurst about to go on foreclosure and bills weren't paid.

Totally agree. This sounds sooo made up. If MJ wanted to take care of his family they would all be in his will, period. And yea, it's funny how they never want to take MJ's money but someone is always insisting, so they end up "reluctantly" taking it. LOL

 

[ivy]

tygger

AEG could not have sued for wrongful death (which is by definition limited to the families of the person as you can see from the law I posted) , they could have sued for gross negligence of an employee during the course of work given that they have damages (lost income from TII) and they are willing to accept an employment relationship between them and Murray. (no they did not need to wait for this trial end to prove employee/ independent contractor, they could have filed that lawsuit if they were willing to accept / state Murray is an employee with a contract) It's not really rocket science to understand that there are a lot of different lawsuit types and the possible lawsuits for AEG is not called "wrongful death" but employer suing employer for gross negligence, breach of contract and recovery of damages payable to third party. If you are going to insist calling that a "wrongful death" or act like you don't get the first two types of them could have been filed anytime after Michel's death, I will simply start ignoring your posts.

edited to add: I'll clarify

gross negligence

(not a perfect example) Company hires Jane. Jane at work acts in a gross negligence and burns down the plant. Company sues Jane for gross negligence during the course of work to recover the damages (cos of building).

Murray example : AEG hires Murray to provide first class services to Michael. Michael dies due to Murray's gross negligence. TII gets cancelled. AEG sues Murray for the damages (loss of TII income).

As you can see this requires AEG stating Murray is an employee and was grossly negligent during course of work. Given that they state he's not their employee such lawsuit is highly unlikely. Plus if there's no damages, it becomes impossible.

breach of contract

very similar to the above.claims a breach of the contract. As you can see this requires acknowledging a valid contract and given that AEG is stating the contract wasn't signed and therefore not valid such lawsuit is highly unlikely. Plus as mentioned above if there's no damages (whether AEG recovered the costs and even made profit), it becomes impossible.

---------------------------------
everything aside , in one breath you say AEG made profit from Michael's death and in other one you claim AEG could have sued Murray for damages? It doesn't make sense to me.

-----------------------------------------

I do know about Mann / Vaccaro / Katherine Jackson. Because everything I said including contracts was filed in Howard Mann / Vaccaro lawsuit. It's not my fault if you didn't know about it.
-----------------------------

nothing you post about the Goldmans changes my point as you already acknowledged they fought for control and got the control of the book. That has been my point the wholeeeeeeeee time. Control, control, controlllllll. Restitution gives you the ability to control. 1 +1 = 2. I don't give a damn about how people see Goldmans, or how much or how little money they collected from OJ, I don't care if it was perfect situation or not. They got the control of the book, that's all that matters. What will Jacksons do when Murray writes his book? Nothing? And yeah I can put the responsibility on Jacksons for not even trying and giving Murray a free pass.

You fail to realize this is not the case of a perfect situation. It's a case of fighting. When Vaccaro got the contents of the storage, Michael did not let him get away with it. He sued Vaccaro twice. That's fighting, that's win or lose trying to stop it. I don't see it as "being taken advantage of", that's fighting in my book. Similarly I wouldn't have any issues if Jacksons tried to stop Murray but couldn't for whatever reason. But they aren't even trying. They didn't need to sue him for restitution, criminal court was in the process of awarding them one they refused. You can bow your head down and make a million excuses for Jacksons ranging from "restitution is not perfect, Murray could get money indirectly" and so on. I will keep saying "they gave Murray a free pass and did not even want to have the control or try to stop him from profiting from Michael".

 

[ivy]

I'm not sure why Taj's testimony was necessary. Absolutely irrelevant IMO.

simple, damages.

the non economic damages are the lost of love, companionship, guidance and so on. the notes by and about Michael's kids demonstrate what they lost.

(note: It's apparent that they did not like the mention of Debbie Rowe because the jurors - if they do - might award less damages if they believe the kids only lost one parent. )

the economic damages are lost income from business deals. The other notes, making movies etc. establishes the basis for that.

as for why putting Taj on the stand as he's the person that took the notes from Michael's house and kept them in his possession, he's the only one that can validate them.

 

[Bubs]

simple, damages.

the non economic damages are the lost of love, companionship, guidance and so on. the notes by and about Michael's kids demonstrate what they lost. .

I find it disturbing how easily they put the prize on everything (lost income, companionship, guidance etc), but when it comes to punish Michael's killer they cannot put a prize on that and ask restitution?

We might hear some of her reasoning when this comes up:
allowed (motion denied)- Motion 8 - KJ did not file a suit against Murray

AEG is allowed to bring in the issue why she didn't sue CM, so I'm looking forward pretty good explanation.


Ivy, do you know if Ribeira is Taj's lawyers too?
From ABC7 tweets:
"I protected that box with my life," Taj said. He kept it hidden in his closet of his house.
He turned over the entire box to his lawyer.

 

[AliCat]

Going by the testimonies so far, I tend to agree with you as I have no reason to believe other than they wanted TII and espeacially MJ to be successful. Perhaps they didn't love MJ as Kenny described in his testimony, but they certainly tried a lot to make it work for MJ and tried to get all sort of people (therapist, nutrionist etc) on bord to help MJ.

Ortega said there wasn’t any reason for him to think that Phillips and Gongaware didn’t still love Jackson.
He said he believed the execs cared for Jackson “because of the way they supported him throughout the entire venture.”

Thanks, Bubs! AEG Live was extremely supportive of Michael Jackson's vision of his "This Is It" Shows. Even though Randy Phillips' patience seemed short, Randy Phillips continued to support Michael Jackson. Case in point, when Michael Jackson got upset with Sony and Tommy Mottola, we have so much information to show how angry Michael Jackson was with what Michael Jackson perceived as lack of support of his latest album, "Invincible." Then, Michael Jackson was in different lawsuits where he didn't fulfill his monetary obligations of being paid, but didn't produce a product. The reason why Marcel Avram's sued Michael Jackson back in 2000, was because Michael did not do 2 Concert's with the Promoter, because as Michael testified, he didn't believe it was good for his health, to fly from one time zone to another in one night. So there is proof, in just that alone, that if Michael Jackson gets angry about a project, he will not cooperate. That's what made Randy Phillips concerned as the opening night of the "This Is It" Shows was growing closer. Randy Phillips thought Michael may not cooperate at the last moment and not fulfill his obligations and even Tom Barrack talked about this in the Wall Street Article, about keeping Michael focused on his work and not letting outside distractions discourage him from doing this. As evidenced by the film, "This Is It," we do see the end product of how well the Show was being produced. It was not a shoddy product in the least. That's why the film was so successful!

 

[AliCat]

that talk about seeing Michael like this or that... his weight was not the problem... the coroners report is the fact on the table and it says clearly Michaels weight was ok for an adult man of his age.
It's really so much bla bla bla bla!

In the FBI files, it shows a picture of Michael Jackson's California driver's license. Michael was 5' 9" tall and weighed 120 pounds. How come he weighed more at time of death, but we have to read Michael is looking emaciated, like some one we would witness, in a picture, of a Nazi Concentration Camp, back in World War 2!

 

[passy001]

I'm not sure why Taj's testimony was necessary. Absolutely irrelevant IMO.



Totally agree. This sounds sooo made up. If MJ wanted to take care of his family they would all be in his will, period. And yea, it's funny how they never want to take MJ's money but someone is always insisting, so they end up "reluctantly" taking it. LOL

I think the jacksons are spinning the word 'family'. when MJ spoke of word 'Family' he was referring to his kids, not the whole jackson clan.

 

[serendipity]

simple, damages.

the non economic damages are the lost of love, companionship, guidance and so on. the notes by and about Michael's kids demonstrate what they lost.

(note: It's apparent that they did not like the mention of Debbie Rowe because the jurors - if they do - might award less damages if they believe the kids only lost one parent. )

the economic damages are lost income from business deals. The other notes, making movies etc. establishes the basis for that.

as for why putting Taj on the stand as he's the person that took the notes from Michael's house and kept them in his possession, he's the only one that can validate them.

Yea I know about non economical damages. But most of what he said was already testified to by TJ and especially about MJ's relationship with his kids I think Prince and TJ and other witnesses too, already have established how close and loving it was, so how many witnesses they need for the same thing? Now Alan Duke is also reporting that next week Grace will also be testifying about that. The jury will be like "Ok, we get it" lol

 

[passy001]

The doctor did not receive an advance for his documentary. Those monies were floated to his legal team. No one will pay the doctor directly so how does restitution fix that? Again, I do not see a financial windfall for this convict but, some fans here do for their own reasons that I do not understand.

It does not matter whether the money was paid directly or indirectly to his lawyer, he still benefits from MJ, the real victim and that is the bottom line. That money came from his direct EXPLOITATION of MJ.