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Open General discussion - Katherine Jackson vs AEG

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respect77 said:
I wouldn't go as far as to conclude from Kai's testimony that Michael and his kids didn't have anything to eat. I have never heard stories about them starving. I'd think Michael had more than one credit cards and bank accounts and this was one used by the staff. Just because there wasn't money on that sometimes it doesn't necessarily mean Michael didn't have money at all.
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yes, I thought Kai was referring to the previous chef, not to Michael, saying the previous chef had done a crappy job
 
LastTear said:
I am still at a loss to understand how a non medical doctor could supervise a doctor, and yes, I have read the board. Can someone explain how this would work in this very instance with AEG, Murray and Michael please.
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to put it very shortly, I think that what the jacksons are saying about supervision is:
- AEG gave orders to Murray (put Michael on stage)
- AEG put Murray in such a position that he had to "obey" (promising a contract that took 2 months, not paying him)
 
serendipity said:
Are the Jacksons trying to discredit the children? They've been trying to show AEG fired Grace, Kai now also claims MJ didn't fire her and he didn't even know about it (even tho it was Michael Amir Williams who let her go) and of course they have Grace herself lined up to testify. Obviously Grace will hardly admit to what Paris is saying, so will she be trying to impeach Paris and make the kids look like liars. I'm certainly getting that feeling by this whole thing.......
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See that, it's just ONE of the glaring reasons as to why Michael's children should NOT be involved with this madness.

The name of the game, for BOTH sides, will be to discredit, thereby impeaching a person's testimony.

Man, I realize that Paris was "most likely" just repeating the words she heard from her father, but those words made Grace sound like one of those CRAZY Michael Jackson Stalkers, who either own Neverland and/or gave birth to Michael's children. I can't even imagine how Grace is going to be able to digest those words.

I'm not sure if Grace was interested in testifying before, but NOW she might very well be interested in testifying, so that she can clear up any misconceptions about herself. Personally speaking, this line of questioning will only add a TABLOID element to the proceedings.
 
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serendipity said:
Are the Jacksons trying to discredit the children? They've been trying to show AEG fired Grace, Kai now also claims MJ didn't fire her and he didn't even know about it (even tho it was Michael Amir Williams who let her go) and of course they have Grace herself lined up to testify. Obviously Grace will hardly admit to what Paris is saying, so will she be trying to impeach Paris and make the kids look like liars. I'm certainly getting that feeling by this whole thing.......
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oh ok, thanks for that, that answers my question why use Paris' video now, and not during PG's testimony, when they talked about Grace.

my understanding is , so far : AEG used that bit of Paris' deposition to discredit Michael : he "felt bad" and avoided conflict so much he would lie to Kai about why she was fired, and pretended not to know.

Great. Now, was that necessary ? I don't think so.

EDIT : IF that's what they're doing, that's taking it too far. And don't tell me it's the Jacksons, AEG doesn't need to sink that low.
 
bouee said:
- AEG put Murray in such a position that he had to "obey" (promising a contract that took 2 months, not paying him)
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I look at it differently. I mean when you want a person to OBEY, you give them some sort of incentive, per se. AEG could have thrown that old dog a bone if they wanted to, but instead they told him "NO, you will not be paid until Michael's signs off on your contract."

Did Michael give that old dog a few dollars to hold him down? We shall see.
 
bouee said:
to put it very shortly, I think that what the jacksons are saying about supervision is:
- AEG gave orders to Murray (put Michael on stage)
- AEG put Murray in such a position that he had to "obey" (promising a contract that took 2 months, not paying him)
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Thank you for the effort but I still don't see supervision. When did they give him orders? In the draft contract? In the meeting? People can be reminded what their job is by an interested party without it being classed as supervision.

But anyway, is it unreasonable request, that Murray do his job and keep Michael fit and well and ready for the stage?
 
bouee said:
oh ok, thanks for that, that answers my question why use Paris' video now, and not during PG's testimony, when they talked about Grace.

my understanding is , so far : AEG used that bit of Paris' deposition to discredit Michael : he "felt bad" and avoided conflict so much he would lie to Kai about why she was fired, and pretended not to know.

Great. Now, was that necessary ? I don't think so.

EDIT : IF that's what they're doing, that's taking it too far. And don't tell me it's the Jacksons, AEG doesn't need to sink that low.
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Unfortunately they do need to sink that low and probably lower by the time this is over, AEG will defend themselves with anything they can, there is a lot at stake here.
 
bouee said:
EDIT : IF that's what they're doing, that's taking it too far. And don't tell me it's the Jacksons, AEG doesn't need to sink that low.
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In my opinion, they will BOTH be "sinking that low."

AEG needs to clear their name, and Mother wants to collect her millions and/or billions. Of course they are BOTH going to do distasteful things. Did you really expect differently?

In my opinion, posting pictures of Michael's bedroom, in a neat little bundle, on their website was pretty low also. Who the heck wanted those dang pictures dragged out all over again!!!!
 
LastTear said:
Unfortunately they do need to sink that low and probably lower by the time this is over, AEG will defend themselves with anything they can, there is a lot at stake here.
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Big Apple2 said:
In my opinion, they will BOTH be "sinking that low."

AEG needs to clear their name, and Mother wants to collect her millions and/or billions. Of course they are BOTH going to do distasteful things. Did you really expect differently?

In my opinion, posting pictures of Michael's bedroom, in a neat little bundle, on their website was pretty low also. Who the heck wanted those dang pictures dragged out all over again!!!!
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1- they would have used it during Pg's testimony, which was unnecessary : PG said how it happened, why would AEG fire the nanny ? It was not really plausible to begin with. And PG DID fire Grace, though he certainly meant it as a personnal service.

2-If AEG had nothing to do with firing Kai, then that's easy to show. And ask MAW.

So yes, using the kids to discredit their own father IS low, and unnecessary IMO. Not a great image to give to the jury.
 
I'm not convinced it was to discredit Michael as such, but, honestly, this is nothing compared to what we have been hearing and will probably here. Clearly neither side will paint Michael in a positive light. I think all that showed was that Michael didn't really like Grace being around but felt sorry for her and that their on and off working relationship spanned over years.
 
bouee said:
So yes, using the kids to discredit their own father IS low, and unnecessary IMO. Not a great image to give to the jury.
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Using the children AT ALL is unnecessary, in my opinion. You can thank Mother for that. She put them in this case order to play the sympathy card, nothing more, in my opinion.

She could have filed that case on her own, if she wanted to protect her grandchildren from this madness. But there is money to be made, and just like their contract for life with Howard Mann, they will be used again and again and again. So that Grandma can attain a brash ring larger enough to financially cover the deadbeats in the family. Just my opinion!
 
bouee said:
oh ok, thanks for that, that answers my question why use Paris' video now, and not during PG's testimony, when they talked about Grace..
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I think they used it because Kai spoke about Grace as she was like a mother for die kids.

ForeverBeInPeaceMichael said:
CNN reported that yesterday Paris testified from UCLA about her nanny.

correct?
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No it`s her depositon from March 2013
 
Paris Jackson -- who is still the hospital recovering from her recent suicide attempt -- testified via videotape today in the trial over her father's death four years ago.

The 15-year-old, who is suing AEG live along with her granmorher and her siblings, was questioned under oath last October about her former nanny, Grace Rwaramba.

Lawyers for the Jackson family had hinted Rwaramba had been fired by AEG the same way Jackson's personal chef Kai Chase has been let go two months before Jackson died.

So AEG lawyer Jessica Stebbins Bina played a clip from Paris deposition. Asked why Jackson fired Rwaramba, Paris replied, "My dad didn't like her... She was sneaky. She wasn't an honest person, and lied a lot."

Michael hired her back more than once because he felt sorry for her. "She didn't really have money," Paris explained.

"One time when me and my brother were really young, before Blanket was born.. She would call the hotel and say she was his wife and they'd let her in, and he'd wake up and she'd be like in his bed.... She was obsessed with him.

That's what he told us...kinda freaky."

Asked why her father didn't get rid of her, Paris replied, "He did. He sent her to India. She kept coming back."

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/paris_jackson_testifies_in_aeg_case_E2weQTgmCOo1KJ8e5kdXDI
 
Paris just confirmed that Grace was fired on MJ's orders. Now when the Jacksons bring Grace, I don't see her confirming what Paris said here, thus she will try to discredit not only the kids, but MJ too as Paris repeated what MJ told her.
 
Annita said:
I think they used it because Kai spoke about Grace as she was like a mother for die kids.
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Exactly. Kai painted Grace as this great woman who was the kids only mother or something like that. So they showed MJ and his kids didn't feel this way.
 
LastTear said:
Thank you for the effort but I still don't see supervision. When did they give him orders? In the draft contract? In the meeting? People can be reminded what their job is by an interested party without it being classed as supervision.

But anyway, is it unreasonable request, that Murray do his job and keep Michael fit and well and ready for the stage?
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you're welcome :)
That's how I understand what the Jacksons are saying, you don't have to agree with me or with them :)

Big Apple2 said:
I look at it differently. I mean when you want a person to OBEY, you give them some sort of incentive, per se. AEG could have thrown that old dog a bone if they wanted to, but instead they told him "NO, you will not be paid until Michael's signs off on your contract."

Did Michael give that old dog a few dollars to hold him down? We shall see.
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In times of crisis, you can also threaten people to fire them. We hear that everyday over here...
 
I do think Grace has the MJ obsession and do things over the boundary sometimes. This woman wrote in her school year book, she wanted to be MJ's wife. So as the children's nanny, Michael may feel Grace was helpful and good at what she did, but other times, she was the obsessed nutter thinking herself more than the nanny. I think She really loved Michael's children and treated them like her own, so for this Michael forgave her for what she did to him easily and rehired her several times.
 
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serendipity said:
Paris just confirmed that Grace was fired on MJ's orders. Now when the Jacksons bring Grace, I don't see her confirming what Paris said here, thus she will try to discredit not only the kids, but MJ too as Paris repeated what MJ told her.
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I don't know about MJ and the kids. Grace is cornered now.

We'll see if the Jacksons call her now, or not.

Does anyone know if she was in London for the O2 press conference ?
 
bouee said:
I don't know about MJ and the kids. Grace is cornered now.

We'll see if the Jacksons call her now, or not.

Does anyone know if she was in London for the O2 press conference ?
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even though Michael fired Grace before, that doesn't mean the last time is him, not AEG. There is the possibility AEG fired Grace against Michael will.
 
But if Michael fired her more then once. You can draw the conclusion that he did it again. And without any proof otherwise what can you do
 
bouee said:
We'll see if the Jacksons call her now, or not.
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I don't think they will call her now. We shall see.

Now AEG may call her after that clip from Paris' deposition was shown to the jury. And Grace "may" just want to testify, not so much because she is choosing a side, but to TRY and clear up her name. She's been branded a crazy lying stalker, she can't be too happy about that.

The obsessed part, I'll give her. Shoot, I'm obsessed with him also. LOL! Always have been, always will be!
 
bouee said:
I don't know about MJ and the kids. Grace is cornered now.

We'll see if the Jacksons call her now, or not.

Does anyone know if she was in London for the O2 press conference ?
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I don't even see why they need her for? Other than telling drug stories what else, relevant to the case can she bring?
 
bouee said:
my understanding is , so far : AEG used that bit of Paris' deposition to discredit Michael : he "felt bad" and avoided conflict so much he would lie to Kai about why she was fired, and pretended not to know.
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This got nothing to do with discrediting Michael. they used it to show that Grace was fired on Michael's orders.

There's a huge difference between AEG / Gongaware fired Grace because Michael didn't want her and AEG / Gongaware firing Grace while Michael wanted her.

Jacksons tried to claim AEG was hiring and firing whomever they wanted as they are the ones who were advancing Michael the money and got "control" over him. Paris's deposition showed that it was Michael who did not want Grace. So now AEG is establishing ground work that Grace was fired because Michael did not want her, Karen was hired because Michael wanted her and murray was hired because michael wanted him.


It's also text book impeachment - Kai saying Grace was like a mother and Paris saying she was obsessed with Michael, Kai saying Prince helped Michael and Prince saying no, is questioning credibility of Kai.
 
Well Grace can put things into context if she is going to testify to make herself less nutty. I think it's well known that Grace had sneaked in Michael's bed. I heard this 'rumour' long time ago.
 
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