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Murray Trial - October 11th - Day 10 - Discussion

prettygirlmj said:
It's sad because as soon as I put the TV on in my sister's house to watch the trial, the very first thing that was on the screen was Michael's naked body. Completely naked body, on a slab in the morgue. I dropped to the floor and cried because I wasn't prepared for that image and it was the last thing I thought I would see at 3 PM NY time. Sad enough my nieces were in the room together with their friends who were walking by. Needless to say they were hysterical and it took an hour to sooth them because that image was just too damn graphic - and to make it sadder, they are all young MJ fans and two of them had no idea that Michael had died (one is 7 and the other one was 11 years old) so that was two shocks in less then 5 mins.

The f**k they had to show that image? They never did that with Elvis "out of respect" so why the f***k they do this to Michael? I just can't deal right now. Livid.
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Actually, there was a full picture of Elvis in his casket a day before his funeral.
 
There's something almost sadistic about the Jacksons reaction to Michael and his death and his children. Its like somewhere in them they welcome the hurt of Michael and his children. Yes, they should have jumped on the District Attorney to not release those photos. They should get Paris off twitter but they won't even though she's being horribly abused and harassed.

Michael had relatives but we were his family.
 
Soundmind said:
They fed this craziness when it suited them , I believe The jacksons wanted that pic to surface because they consider that an evidence against AEG , that would help them in the court of public opinion , to pressure AEG to settle with them. Watch them send their friends and lawyers to comment on tv about how sick and thin MJ appeared and how AEG did not care and sucked his blood and forced him to rehearse.

his next of kin is his mother , where has she been ? It's been ages since she came to the courtroom!!!! The Jacksons don't care .
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She was court today with Reebie, but they left earlier to avoid seeing the photos.
 
Dale Earnhardt's widow actually took it further and got a law passed in the state of Florida that ALL autopsy photos remain sealed. If California had the same law we would't be having this discussion.

As for Katherine and her presence in the courtroom, she only missed last week. She was there today and then left before the photos were shown.
 
Soundmind said:
They fed this craziness when it suited them , I believe The jacksons wanted that pic to surface because they consider that an evidence against AEG , that would help them in the court of public opinion , to pressure AEG to settle with them. Watch them send their friends and lawyers to comment on tv about how sick and thin MJ appeared and how AEG did not care and sucked his blood and forced him to rehearse.

his next of kin is his mother , where has she been ? It's been ages since she came to the courtroom!!!! The Jacksons don't care .
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I cannot even BEGIN to imagine, that that awful photo has anything to do with AEG, at all. The photo is of some people's dead father, brother, and son. We KNOW he died, right? The POINT is, that the court could have chosen to seal that photo. Whether or not it would have been used as "evidence" in any cival trial... .is unknown. This is, to me, a human-rights violation, of the largest order. Michael was a HUMAN BEING, and not even his face was covered, which is the minimum in respect, that should be shown to any human-being.

But yeah, where WAS his family?
 
I would like to request the mobs to created a separate thread for fans who want to rant about the autopsy photos instead of spamming this thread. Not to be insensitive, but there are some who would want to talk about the actually case today and not read fans continue to whine about pictures.
 
I have to agree with some of the other fans here. I really don't think showing this picture was necessary. At least I wish they had decided not to have it televised. It really is invasive to Michael and his Family. Michael would hate this for people to be looking at his dead,naked body like this.

This was a real human being with feelings who had family, friends and fans that all loved him very much. He wasn't some object or freak show which is what many in the public and media treat him as. He was a real person and many times I think people forget that.



It's so sad to me that Michael can't even have privacy even in death.
 
bluetopez said:
Dr. Klein Attoney said he will soon produce evidence that show when MJ came out of Kleins office he wasn't surring nor needed asistance in walking out by anyone. Said MJ did get Demoral at Kleins office but for medical reasons and said Klein didn't over give it to MJ. MJ only went to kleins office I believe he said 4 times in the month of June and that someone that is addicted to demoral would have to get it on a daily basis and that was not the case with MJ and his vistits to Klein and the medical records will prove all this.
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I have a question about that.

In 94 when Michael when to detox because he said he was dependant on pain killers since from the Pepsi accident, wasn't Demerol the main culprit? Michael even wrote his song Morphine about his experience in rehab.

So even if Klein said he gave Michael very little demerol, wouldn't that be a no-no because of the past addiction?

Same principle as an alcoholic who can't just have a drink socially because they could relapse.
 
Ramona122003 said:
Actually, there was a full picture of Elvis in his casket a day before his funeral.
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I am sure that was hard for Elvis fans and his family. But an autopsy photo would have been worse to them. I wish Michael was covered up more. It's hard to see him like that.
 
Cinnamon234 said:
I have to agree with some of the other fans here. I really don't think showing this picture was necessary. At least I wish they had decided not to have it televised. It really is invasive to Michael and his Family. Michael would hate this for people to be looking at his dead,naked body like this.

This was a real human being with feelings who had family, friends and fans that all loved him very much. He wasn't some object or freak show which is what many in the public and media treat him as. He was a real person and many times I think people forget that.



It's so sad to me that Michael can't even have privacy even in death.
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Michael is dead and this trial isn't about saving the feelings of Michael, his family, or his friends. This is a manslaughter trial, not a popularity contest.

I really think most fans are upset because for two years we have been allowed to live in a bubble where we can somewhat pretend Michael wasn't dead. Afterall, we never we never saw the body and the one picture we did see fans denied it was even real. So now fans are upset that they have to confront the fact that Michael is dead heads on.

That's the fact of the matter, Michael is dead. Whatever privacy he once had was done away the moment he died. I doubt Michael wanted us to know how much his heart weighed, how much he weighed, that he had an extra ribs, about his enlarged prostate, and what was his medical history, but most fans had no problems reading the autopsy and given commentary. We knew these pictures were going to be seen for weeks, so why are some of you acting so surprise and outraged now?
 
Ramona122003 said:
I would like to request the mobs to created a separate thread for fans who want to rant about the autopsy photos instead of spamming this thread. Not to be insensitive, but there are some who would want to talk about the actually case today and not read fans continue to whine about pictures.
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The photo WAS a part of the case, and was introduced into testimony.
 
Ramona122003 said:
I would like to request the mobs to created a separate thread for fans who want to rant about the autopsy photos instead of spamming this thread. Not to be insensitive, but there are some who would want to talk about the actually case today and not read fans continue to whine about pictures.
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I don't think anyone is whining and it was shown in court today.They used the picture when the coroner was testifying.
 
Well hopefully after the trial is over that someone ask the prosecutor why he decide to put the pic up...
 
marebear said:
I don't think anyone is whining and it was shown in court today.They used the picture when the coroner was testifying.
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But the photo really has nothing to do with the actually testimony from the corona. It was shown, talked about for a moment, and then taken down. The corona said allot of stuff that cleared allow of the myth that the media and some fans has cling to for over two years, but instead of having a meaningful discussion, we're talking about a picture that really played no big role today.

So to me, it strikes me as a waste of time and doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things.
 
Ramona122003 said:
Michael is dead and this trial isn't about saving the feelings of Michael, his family, or his friends. This is a manslaughter trial, not a popularity contest.

I really think most fans are upset because for two years we have been allowed to live in a bubble where we can somewhat pretend Michael wasn't dead. Afterall, we never we never saw the body and the one picture we did see fans denied it was even real. So now fans are upset that they have to confront the fact that Michael is dead heads on.

That's the fact of the matter, Michael is dead. Whatever privacy he once had was done away the moment he died. I doubt Michael wanted us to know how much his heart weighed, how much he weighed, that he had an extra ribs, about his enlarged prostate, and what was his medical history, but most fans had no problems reading the autopsy and given commentary. We knew these pictures were going to be seen for weeks, so why are some of you acting so surprise and outraged now?
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Please stop lecturing myself and other fans Ramona122003. No one here is a child. At least i'm not and I'm a bit tired of you trying to tell others how to feel or what to say. You have very strong opinions about this case and so do I.

I'm allowed to feel how I want, as are other fans. I will state my opinion regardless. We can just agree to disagree here.

I don't need to be talked down too by you or anyone else. I respect your opinion, but respect mine too. Thank You.
 
sugarcookies said:
Well hopefully after the trial is over that someone ask the prosecutor why he decide to put the pic up...
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More important I'd like to know why Michael's family didn't put up a fight to keep the photo private. They must of known it was a possibility and yet they did nothing.
 
Lynn88 said:
Dale Earnhardt's widow actually took it further and got a law passed in the state of Florida that ALL autopsy photos remain sealed. If California had the same law we would't be having this discussion.

As for Katherine and her presence in the courtroom, she only missed last week. She was there today and then left before the photos were shown.
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Thank you for referencing this. The Earnhardt case WAS a vanguard case, but sadly for Michael, it was state, and not federal, in terms of precedents. I think it was a student newspaper, who sought to get the photos? (for those who do not know? Dale Earnhardt was a MUCH LOVED race-car driver in the U.S., who died in a crash, because of a failed seat-belt. That brought about a lot of changes in regulations about race-car driving, as I hope it will also bring about changes in the role of DOCTORS, in treating celebrity, and other, patients.) Earnhardt's wife, Theresa, fought HARD to have the photos suppressed, and yes, it DID result in a new law in the state of Florida. The legal system is a work-in-progress, and doesn't always catch up in a timely way? Theresa fought SO hard, mostly because she and Dale had a young daughter, and she did not want the child subjected to such awful photos. I just wish Michael had had someone, to fight so hard for HIM?
 
Ramona122003 said:
But the photo really has nothing to do with the actually testimony from the corona. It was shown, talked about for a moment, and then taken down. The corona said allot of stuff that cleared allow of the myth that the media and some fans has cling to for over two years, but instead of having a meaningful discussion, we're talking about a picture that really played no big role today.

So to me, it strikes me as a waste of time and doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things.
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I understand. It is just hard to get that kind of picture out of your head. It's really sad.
 
I agree with Ramona on this i know the photo are hurtful and sad to see BUT we need to get back and talk about what was said in court today... Thank God that we have peolpes that will post up videos from the courthouse...
 
I was at work and missed most of the testimony today, where can I watch the video? Is it up on Youtube yet?
 
I wish no one goes in life or in death what Michael went and is still going thru. It's painful, but I think it was better the picture was shown to all otherwise the media would have make any thing to get it, publicize it and make money out it. Remember the media is about money and Michael still brings money to the media.

Ivy you said: "according to California Government Code would require a surviving next of kin (spouse , parent or children) - Jacksons - to make a request to sealwhich apparently they didn't do."

Are you sure of that? That implies that Katherine, Michael's mother, the woman he adored and thought of her as perfection had the opportunity to have those pictures sealed and she didn't do it. She didn't do anything to protect her son in death from any further humiliation. I think the lady leans a little too much towards money, but to allow that? Could it be that maybe she didn't have any option with the prosecutors?
 
sugarcookies said:
I agree with Ramona on this i know the photo are hurtful and sad to see BUT we need to get back and talk about what was said in court today... Thank God that we have peolpes that will post up videos from the courthouse...
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The photograph WAS a part of the trial, and was shown in court today. And in that sense, is totally a legitimate part of the discussion here. I saw it on live-stream, from the courthouse, as part of the trial. And many of us did.
 
Justthefacts said:
Was anyone on trial in the Earnhardt case for causing his death
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No there wasn't as his death was an accident. The newspapers wanted to do their own investigations as to what happened. Dale hit the wall head on and died of a basal skull fracture. His seat belt was broken as well. Nascar now has "soft walls" that absorb the impact when a car hits it plus all drivers are required to wear a head-and-neck restraint. Lot's of safety measures have come about as a result of Dale's death. In death he has saved many lives.
 
sugarcookies said:
I agree with Ramona on this i know the photo are hurtful and sad to see BUT we need to get back and talk about what was said in court today... Thank God that we have peolpes that will post up videos from the courthouse...
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The presence of these posts is not stopping you from bringing up other aspects of the case that you wish to discuss. However, eliminating discussion of the photograph would deprive others of the chance to talk about a subject they find important in the presentation of the case today.
 
Lynn88 said:
No there wasn't as his death was an accident. The newspapers wanted to do their own investigations as to what happened. Dale hit the wall head on and died of a basal skull fracture. His seat belt was broken as well. Nascar now has "soft walls" that absorb the impact when a car hits it plus all drivers are required to wear a head-and-neck restraint. Lot's of safety measures have come about as a result of Dale's death. In death he has saved many lives.
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THANK YOU! Absolutely, Dale saved lives. And so will Michael, in terms of doctor's malpractice. The POINT of "criminal trial" does not matter, in this instance, and if anything is to come of this, it will be, among other things, a NATIONAL law NOT to show the bodies of the deceased in court cases. Law is a work-in-progress, and I hope that the photo shown today, will be an inspiration for this.
 
Autumn II said:
The photograph WAS a part of the trial, and was shown in court today. And in that sense, is totally a legitimate part of the discussion here. I saw it on live-stream, from the courthouse, as part of the trial. And many of us did.
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I know it part of the trial it was shown I didn't like it that they for some reason had to put up that pic. BUT I had to some how refocus on the testimony and to what they were saying which ALSO part of the trial too... It sucks I know
 
The thing that stuck me about today's testimony is this. The corona said he believed that the propofol(sp) bottles were opened by a spike because it isn't something you can just tear open. If Michael somehow self-injected, wouldn't the defense be running on the theory that Michael is his drug induct state found a bottle and some was steady enough to open it?

I think that's why the defense is slowly but steady walking away from the drinking and self-injecting theory. Instead, they seemed to be focusing all their energy on the lopz because it's far easier to say and believe that Michael took pills than opened up bottles in a unsteady state and injected himself. The main problem with the pill theory is now they have to say Michael took it hours before hand since there was no pills in his stomach. So, they want us to believe that Michael took 8 or so lopz pills within six or so hours before he died, given it time to fully dissolved, but somehow was still fine to the point Murray took no noticed.

Really, is the defense theory running on BS? I don't think the jury would care for the defense changing their own story in the middle the trial when they've been busted in their own lie.
 
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