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Murray Trial - October 11th - Day 10 - Discussion

volitional said:
Did Dr Rogers states there were no white substance in MJ's throat, esophagus seeming to suggest that he couldn't have swallowed propofol...that's what the lawyer on skynews was saying, whose been watching this case...but I don't recall that part myself.
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There was no white substance, propofol, in Michael's mouth or his stomach. If he had died as fast as the defense is trying to say after drinking, the propofol should had blocked his air passage in some way.
 
volitional said:
Did Dr Rogers states there were no white substance in MJ's throat, esophagus seeming to suggest that he couldn't have swallowed propofol...that's what the lawyer on skynews was saying, whose been watching this case...but I don't recall that part myself.
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Yes he said that
 
Goodnight folks unfortnatly ill be at work through court tommorrow. so hope u can all provide updates so i can check when i get a break. its gonna be a long shift!
 
volitional said:
No they hadn't started the autopsy and they didn't show him naked.

Looks like it's over for the day.
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What? I SAW it, inadvertently. He was ENTIRELY naked, except for the redacted part over his privates. He was naked, and DEAD, and not even his FACE was covered, which is a respect that should be offered to any deceased person. The court DID have a choice, about showing that. That image could have been shown to ONLY the jury, and not the entire WORLD. That photo is now in the public domain, and can be seen all over the internet.

I understand that it was "evidence." There was a CHOICE to be made, which was to show it only to the jury, or to the world. The world can see this image now.

Michael, I am SO very sorry. . .. .
 
xthunderx2 said:
does flannigam understand that things that you took 2 days ago can come out in your urine and NOT in your blood....the urine in a tell all for the body, The levels would be hirer in the urine.
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Yes. it was the toxicologist, I think, who defense tried this on and tox. told them that the urine is historical, what was administered over time maybe several days ago. the blood levels are the thing that tell what affected the body at time of death...So now the defense gets a different reply... SMH
 
Dr. Klein Attoney said he will soon produce evidence that show when MJ came out of Kleins office he wasn't surring nor needed asistance in walking out by anyone. Said MJ did get Demoral at Kleins office but for medical reasons and said Klein didn't over give it to MJ. MJ only went to kleins office I believe he said 4 times in the month of June and that someone that is addicted to demoral would have to get it on a daily basis and that was not the case with MJ and his vistits to Klein
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exactly, I want these records to be presented . the jurors heard Murray in that interview claiming MJ used to go three time a week to Klien's office and people at AEG blaming Klien , saying MJ was wasted . MJ visited Klien three days a week ONLY IN APRIL, MJ did not have rehearsals at tha time .

In May MJ recieved 8 IM injections IN TOTAL ,


in June the same 8 IM injections in total .

May 6 visit to Klien, May 10 voice recording , May 12 visit to Klien . So the slurred speech was not caused by meds Klein gave four days previoulsy .

June 16 visit to Klien , June 19 MJ 'out of it', June 22 last visit to Klien . Again Klein had nothing to dow with what Kenny observed on June 19 .


So why the prosecutors are keepying those records out of the trial? Today also Chernoff pointed at Klein and Walgren did not help alot when he got the detective to say Klein was being investigated for his dealings and prescribing methods related to MJ by the DEA !!!!!
 
Klein has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with Michael's death. NO demerol was found in Michael's system, at ALL. Red-herring. It's all about Murray, and NO ONE else. There is NO reason for Klein's records to be part of the trial, at all.
 
Autumn II said:
What? I SAW it, inadvertently. He was ENTIRELY naked, except for the redacted part over his privates. He was naked, and DEAD, and not even his FACE was covered, which is a respect that should be offered to any deceased person. The court DID have a choice, about showing that. That image could have been shown to ONLY the jury, and not the entire WORLD. That photo is now in the public domain, and can be seen all over the internet.
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When I meant not naked I meant they didn't show his private area, yes that bit was blocked. I suppose if they covered his face then you'd have people saying that wasn't Michael Jackson. I agree that they probably didn't need to make it public but like some others have said I think unfortunately it still would have been leaked.
 
Kliens records arent being kept out by the pros. the pros agreed to his records been entered as evidence they just didnt want him on the stand
 
volitional said:
I suppose if they covered his face then you'd have people saying that wasn't Michael Jackson.
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Well i think they show this photo not for proving it's Michael on it . They don't have to prove it's MJ dead in this case. They could just turn the cameras off or smth like that. They CAN turn the sound off while sidebar. So they should do it with the picture while this exhibit. Or just cover his face or smth like that.
 
Just got done reading this thread and I am thankful for the reports made by you guys.

Thank God, I did not see the autopsy photo and I will most certainly do my best to not see it, no media for me for the next couple of days. Not the way I wanna see my MJ. Its kinda ironic that being the very private person that MJ was, he was not allowed to maintain that privacy even in death.
 
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We don't get to see the jury, the people in the courtroom. Just the lawyers and the witness. We don't get to see or hear a lot of things but if we have to see that photo. Was it necessary? I google Michael's name only and the picture is right there. It's just awful and that people have to see Michael like that. If it was really necessary because for the trial then what can I do but if it really was not necessary then it angers me because it was degrading to Michael. I think he has been degraded enough.
 
I am upset and shocked over the autopsy photo. I had hope they won't show it, although they got permission for two pics. They could have just shown it to the jury, when they knew it was a televised trial and that it would end up in the tabs. How disrespectful :(
 
The POINT about the autopsy photo, was that ONLY the jury should have seen it, as evidence. There was a choice to be made about whether or not this photo would be sealed. It was not sealed, and now the entire world can see Michael, naked (except for privates), and dead. If anyone does not think this is WRONG. . .well, I just think that is bad. SO bad. Sorry, but I do.
 
I can still remember back in 93 when Michael said how humiliated he was that he had have certain photographs taken of him. I see this and it breaks my heart. I see Michael as a person first but because he was one of the most famous people in the world it's going to be everywhere and sick people are tweeting it to his kids. It's awful.
 
Autumn II said:
Those photos could have been SEALED by the court. They always had that option. I simply do not want to HEAR that it was "automatic." It wasn't. Michael deserved more respect that that. For God's SAKE!
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Autumn II said:
The POINT about the autopsy photo, was that ONLY the jury should have seen it, as evidence. There was a choice to be made about whether or not this photo would be sealed. It was not sealed, and now the entire world can see Michael, naked (except for privates), and dead. If anyone does not think this is WRONG. . .well, I just think that is bad. SO bad. Sorry, but I do.
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Nobody is saying that it's not bad - it is. And I understand how sad this is for everyone but this is unfortunately very much was possible.

Generally they seal autopsy photos / crime scene photos for children only or with a request coming from the family. and when the judge allowed that 2 pictures to be shown they became public domain. I will say it again Nicole Simpson crime scene photos wasn't shown on TV but was given to the media the same day. Similarly even if we didn't see this photo on the live stream, it would still be on media the next day. The only alternative was to seal them - but as I said general principle is to just seal such photos of children or with a request of the family. And such sealing according to California Government Code would require a surviving next of kin (spouse , parent or children) - Jacksons - to make a request to sealwhich apparently they didn't do.
 
It's sad because as soon as I put the TV on in my sister's house to watch the trial, the very first thing that was on the screen was Michael's naked body. Completely naked body, on a slab in the morgue. I dropped to the floor and cried because I wasn't prepared for that image and it was the last thing I thought I would see at 3 PM NY time. Sad enough my nieces were in the room together with their friends who were walking by. Needless to say they were hysterical and it took an hour to sooth them because that image was just too damn graphic - and to make it sadder, they are all young MJ fans and two of them had no idea that Michael had died (one is 7 and the other one was 11 years old) so that was two shocks in less then 5 mins.

The f**k they had to show that image? They never did that with Elvis "out of respect" so why the f***k they do this to Michael? I just can't deal right now. Livid.
 
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Soundmind said:
exactly, I want these records to be presented .
QUOTE]

I agree. I hope they show those records also. I'm no fan of Kline. But nevertheless. I don't think it's fair that the defense are trying to drag him into this mess. From what I heard, he was investigated by the authorities and he would have been legally charged if they had found anything. And another thing. If none of Kliens treatments were found in Michael's system when he died, then why do they keep coming back to Klien and implying that he had something to do with Michael's death? They have to know by now what was and what was not in Michael's system when he died. This is all just my opinion.
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Autumn II said:
The POINT about the autopsy photo, was that ONLY the jury should have seen it, as evidence. There was a choice to be made about whether or not this photo would be sealed. It was not sealed, and now the entire world can see Michael, naked (except for privates), and dead. If anyone does not think this is WRONG. . .well, I just think that is bad. SO bad. Sorry, but I do.
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I agree, It should have been sealed. Thankfully I never saw it because I knew there were just two photo's and we already saw one of them so I looked away and just listened. I'm disgusted, and sorry for Michael, it was more than a step too far.
 
further to add Judge's aren't Gods. They make rulings based on requests. You can be assured that almost all media had filed for requests to reach any and all information and documents under the information act and that's why we are seeing this trial being televised and streamed.

Judge has also been very fair in a lot of regards. If I remember correctly there was around 60 - 70 photos taken and he only allowed 2 of them.

With no request to seal he didn't have much ground to go and seal those remaining 2 pictures with all that media and public interest.

and as I think about it Jackson's might have their reasons as well because this photo is going to put a major stop to the hoax that's been going on.
 
I am crying my eyes out. I cant beleive, of all things shown on the internet, THIS.
 
The Jacksons could have asked to seal this? Why didn't they? They knew how private Michael was. I screamed OMG and my mother thought something was wrong and didn't know I was watching the trial on tv. The first picture was hard but not degrading as this one was. Now it's everywhere. I am sorry that is how I feel.
 
ivy said:
Nobody is saying that it's not bad - it is. And I understand how sad this is for everyone but this is unfortunately very much was possible.

Generally they seal autopsy photos / crime scene photos for children only or with a request coming from the family. and when the judge allowed that 2 pictures to be shown they became public domain. I will say it again Nicole Simpson crime scene photos wasn't shown on TV but was given to the media the same day. Similarly even if we didn't see this photo on the live stream, it would still be on media the next day. The only alternative was to seal them - but as I said general principle is to just seal such photos of children or with a request of the family. And such sealing according to California Government Code would require a surviving next of kin (spouse , parent or children) - Jacksons - to make a request to sealwhich apparently they didn't do.
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That is exactly the case. The family should have been on top of this. Too late now. The photo has gone viral. Guess the family had "better" things to do?

Although it was not a criminal case, I'd like to mention Dale Earnhardt? A famous and much-loved American race-car driver, who was killed during a race. There was a request, under the Right to Information Act, to unseal his autopsy photos. His loving wife, Theresa, FOUGHT in the courts to have the records sealed. She WON, and those photos have never been released. I guess Michael's family were just too BUSY to pay attention to this?

http://www.splc.org/news/newsflash.asp?id=640

God help his CHILDREN.
 
and as I think about it Jackson's might have their reasons as well because this photo is going to put a major stop to the hoax that's been going on.
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They fed this craziness when it suited them , I believe The jacksons wanted that pic to surface because they consider that an evidence against AEG , that would help them in the court of public opinion , to pressure AEG to settle with them. Watch them send their friends and lawyers to comment on tv about how sick and thin MJ appeared and how AEG did not care and sucked his blood and forced him to rehearse.

his next of kin is his mother , where has she been ? It's been ages since she came to the courtroom!!!! The Jacksons don't care .
 
Autumn II said:
That is exactly the case. The family should have been on top of this. Too late now. The photo has gone viral. Guess the family had "better" things to do?

Although it was not a criminal case, I'd like to mention Dale Earnhardt? A famous and much-loved American race-car driver, who was killed during a race. There was a request, under the Right to Information Act, to unseal his autopsy photos. His loving wife, Theresa, FOUGHT in the courts to have the records sealed. She WON, and those photos have never been released. I guess Michael's family were just too BUSY to pay attention to this?

http://www.splc.org/news/newsflash.asp?id=640

God help his CHILDREN.
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perfect example. you see on one hand the use of freedom of information act and on the other hand next of kin making a request to seal.

Pastor only had the freedom of information act requests and IMO he did his best by limiting it to 2 photos.
 
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