Michael's handwritten notes from Jackson - AEG trial motions

[LindavG]

I had this conversation with you years ago. In fact you used the same disdainful language and more or less the same points. I am now going to accept your opinion & move on. We could talk about whether the motions about the notes will be settled today.

I'm amazed you still remember things I said years ago. I must have made quite an impression

 

[HIStory]

Michael, greedy?:shock: Did you forget how much of his money he gave away? And besides, like Petrarose said, it doesn't even matter what he does with that money, he should be able to make as much as he wants. Also, writing down those 'numbers' was just another way of Michael to try and reach his goals. Part of his mind-mapping strategy

I agree. It's an invasion of privacy that we read these notes at all and dissect them. These were notes that MJ made to himself, to motivate himself - his private thoughts. Imagine if everything you did or each note or the diaries you have ever written always got out to the public and people analyzed, dissected you and judged you all the time... So are we judging him as a person (calling him "greedy") based on these notes? That's not right. Have we already forgot what he said on that record that Murray taped about building a children's hospital? Even though he had financial difficulties he did not think of himself but of how to help others. Even while being under the influence. That's what was in his heart not "greed".
To be honest, I don't think Michael knew the worth of money very well. But the last thing I'd accuse him of is greed. If anything his big "fault" was that he was "foolishly" generous.

 

[LindavG]

just for correction..

if someone makes as low as 35k a year which the average person works for lets say 47 years that’s $1,645,000... So there are a large amount of people that makes over a million in a life time.

You do know that there's a whole world outside of the US, right? Let's say someone works for 50 years (age 15-65), that means his average income per year has to be at least $20,000. There are only 20 nations in the world above this threshold (adjusted for purchasing power parity): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_household_income Keep in mind that these are household incomes, not individual incomes (which are even lower). Literally about 90% of households in the world make less than $20,000 a year. Remember that next time you think an individual income of a million a year is "not that much".

Michael had to have earned somewhere over a billion in his career. so 20 mill per month/ 240 million a year.. is pretty standard for him. He's given more than that to charity, under his name they say he gave 350 million.. so he gave more than what he expected as his annual income..

He said 20 million a week though, not 20 million a month. Even so, 240 million is an insane amount of money and more than he has ever earned in a year, even at the height of his career. I believe he made around 50 million a year in the Thriller days. Michael did not donate 300 million by himself, most of that was in cooperation with sponsors. That is not to take anything away from his generosity, of course.

Also keep in mind he has to pay staff... Security, chef, drivers, manager.. the list goes on..

I read that Neverland cost about 6 million a year to operate.

Yes 20 million is alot no matter what way we look at it, but when you are Michael Jackson, that retrospect is fully scued.

Michael lost a lot of money on people who didn't have his best interest at heart. It's good to read in his notes that he insisted on signing off on any amount of money above $5000.

 

[Lil]

I don't think it's greedy or ridiculous to want 20 million. I'd much rather see that kind of money in Michael's hands than in some big faceless corporation like AEG - at least I know Michael will put most of it to good use. It is greedy and ridiculous, however, to say that you 'need' that kind of money or that it's not a lot. No matter how much you donate to charity, an attitude like that shows that you don't have much consideration for those who are less fortunate than you.

I'm not sure if I agree though, that an attitude like that automatically shows that you don't have consideration for others less fortunate. Aren't that two separate things? It's all about context, and it's all relative.. I mean, if you put it in the context of people dying because they don't even have food or water, of course it's extremely extravagant to say you 'need' 1 or 20 million. But that would mean nobody should live above those standards? I don't have much to spend myself.. but I don't feel like those who do are inconsiderate towards me when they say a million is not that much. Nah, you can make millions, be caring enough to share your money with others and still feel like it's not a lot of money. I don't see how that would make you inconsiderate.
Btw Michael did put most of his money to good use but he also spent lots of it on lavish things that he didn't 'need'. He probably felt like 1 million was nothing. So does that take away from the good he did with it, or can you call him inconsiderate to those less fortunate than him? I don't think so..

But anyway, I guess that's not what this thread is about;D

 

[xosweetseducingsighsxo]

Hold up hold up hold up! Michael Jackson? Greedy? THE Michael Jackson..greedy? What in the-? If he's anything, he's the greatest giver there ever was. He was never greedy. Most of his money went to charity. Even with his financial problems, he wanted to build a children's hospital..to give kids love and hope.

And him making those movies and doing all those big things weren't impossible. Michael always wanted to go big. He was basically go big or go home--and I know he wasn't about to go home without a bang. He was a perfectionist. That's just who he was.

I know when I do things, I try and think outside the box, make it something that people will not only remember as great, but they'll enjoy it. Guess who I learned it from? Yep, none other than Michael Joseph Jackson.

It's not his fault he had a heart of gold--it's the pricks who didn't have his best interest at heart's fault.

 

[Ashtanga]

Look to Tohme, his eyes and realize how much he is obscure. :fear: This guy always caught my attention. I wonder where he walk now. This guy has a lot to say. :blink:

It could be positive, a good son want to help his mother

It could be negative, his mother visits him and talk to him about making a tour with his brothers and he thinks all she wants is money.

Believe me, they are both. This note shows the positive and negative about the money. There is no doubt that Michael wanted to help his mother financially and also no doubt that Katherine and the rest of the family looked at Michael as a money machine. -_-

 

[KOPV]

I've lived in multiple countries so yes I know there are more countries than the US. and I also know there are millions of people making over 100K a year and thousands of millionaires and several billionaires.. my point (before you try picking a debate) is that there are severalllllll people that make a million dollars within a lifetime.

Even with your own math.. if most of the people in the world make less than 20K a year, for 50 years 19K is JUST under 1 million.. so yes to your own emission.. many many many people make a million dollars in a life time..


to some 100,000 a year is an insane amount of money, so yes so would 20million, 240 million, or a billion.. whatever the case, it does not change the fact it Michaels world.. 20 million is not an insane amount.. the same way selling 750 million albums isnt..

Someone that has had the money to give away of 350 million to charity, and probably even more to family and friends...

Michael did not look at money in the same retrospect as you or me.. I've lived in poverty! so don't be so quick to make a judgment of a closed mind here..

 

[KOPV]

Just a little additional note..

I drink a gallon of water a day or more, in many areas of the world a family would live off of that for over a week.. In retrospect like I was saying earlier.. It's not alot of water to me.. But to them, it's an "insane" amount..

and yes several people have a gallon of water a day!! majority or not.. it's still a lottt!

 

[LindavG]

I've lived in multiple countries so yes I know there are more countries than the US. and I also know there are millions of people making over 100K a year and thousands of millionaires and several billionaires.. my point (before you try picking a debate) is that there are severalllllll people that make a million dollars within a lifetime.

Even with your own math.. if most of the people in the world make less than 20K a year, for 50 years 19K is JUST under 1 million.. so yes to your own emission.. many many many people make a million dollars in a life time..

Huh? That doesn't make any sense. If 90% of households (i.e. at least 2 people) make less than $20,000 a year, how can many many people make a million dollars in a lifetime? You're assuming that those other people all make $19,995 a year but look at the actual stats. Most people make nowhere near that. The average Mexican household earns less than $4,500 a year (and that is adjusted for purchasing power parity, the nominal income is only $3000).

to some 100,000 a year is an insane amount of money, so yes so would 20million, 240 million, or a billion.. whatever the case, it does not change the fact it Michaels world.. 20 million is not an insane amount.. the same way selling 750 million albums isnt..

Someone that has had the money to give away of 350 million to charity, and probably even more to family and friends...

I'm surprised there are still people who believe he sold 750 million albums and donated 350 million to charity. Those numbers are way inflated.

Michael did not look at money in the same retrospect as you or me.. I've lived in poverty! so don't be so quick to make a judgment of a closed mind here..

I'm sure, but I can't imagine that Michael would ever say in public that he's not making that much money.

That's the last I will say about this because it's getting a bit off-topic

 

[xosweetseducingsighsxo]

@ Petrarose (and others), you're arguing against strawmen. I never said Michael shouldn't have goals in life, that he shouldn't think big or that he should settle for anything less than his best. I don't disagree with anything you said. I just think that sometimes, Michael set goals for himself that were simply unattainable. Bad was never going to sell 100 million records, no matter how hard he worked on it or how badly he wanted it. If he had simply said: "I want this album to outsell Thriller", that would have been ambitious for sure but it wouldn't be totally unrealistic. You see the difference? People who think I'm belittling Michael or who trot out the usual cliches about "reaching for the stars" just don't understand my point.

When you said Bad was never going to sell 100 million records..what about when the next generation (including me since I'm a teenager) come along? There are a lot of teens now (that I know anyway) that are getting into Michaelmania. Little kids too. There's always that beautiful possibility.

 

[LindavG]

When you said Bad was never going to sell 100 million records..what about when the next generation (including me since I'm a teenager) come along? There are a lot of teens now (that I know anyway) that are getting into Michaelmania. Little kids too. There's always that beautiful possibility.

That would mean Bad has to sell more than three times the amount it has sold so far since the day it was released. Realistically, the chance of that happening is close to zero.

 

[KOPV]

some people like to argue just because they like sounding smart..

But YES if 90% of the world make 20K or less STILL leave alot of people making over that.. There are 7 Billion people in the world, so 10% leave 1,400,000,000 making over that.. I don't know about you but that's alot of people..

I don't understand the reason behind being an advocate against what I stated.. even if 90% of people make $1 a year, there are still over 1.4 billion people making more than 20K..

And lets really put things in perspective, majority of people that make less than 20K a year are not spending there day on a Michael Jackson forum.. Nor do they have the money to waste on internet. So it is fairly safe to say that a good majority of house holds that would even read or hear of MJ wanting to make 20 million a day or whatever it is make 20K or more..

Im not saying everyone!! but majority!! I've lived on a farm where our money was the sheep, mint, vegetables, we traded or sold.. I fulllly understand that a large amount of people don't make alot of money..

And I think Michael was well aware that as well.. That's why he gave what he did.... I can't say I gave that percentage of my income away.. can you???

 

[Petrarose]

How about other notes?

Note 4

Negotiate 40 more shows
movies when?
Randy Phillips
Delio
Halloween special
Ken Eurlikman
Delio Peter Jackson
Randy Phillips
Delio
MJ TV
MJ Radio London
MJ Soda Can London Deal Now
MJ Cookies Deal Now
games activision now

^^There he says negotiate 40 other shows. I thought people said he only wanted 10 and AEG put in 40 more and did not tell him. If he wrote it down, it means he was aware of it.

Funny about soda can now, cookies now. I picture a little boy stomping his feet, shaking his fist and saying, I want MJ soda now! I want MJ cookies now!!!

 

[KOPV]

^ What also grabbed my interest is the "Jack The Giant Killer" which is a movie that is out now.. "Jack The Giant Slayer".. the movies original title was with ... Killer, and started production in Jan of 2009..

So now if I ever see that movie I will picture MJ being involved!!

 

[Mneme]

Note 12

Weekly in come 20 Million a week
First multi billionair entertainer actor director
100 billion
Better than Kelly & Astair
the greatest ever
in the likes of Chaplin Michelangelo Disney - these men demanded perfection innovation always

It had been better the notes were still in Taj's wall cupboard. What was his reason for giving them to his lawyer???? (rhetorik Question!)
They are Michael's personally thoughts, ideas, ambitious dreams about his plans in the future. They were not written for reading from the people all over the world.

In my opinion the notes are devasting for the plaintiffs in the trial.
20 Millionen a week = 1.040.000.000 per anno and this sounds not very realistic. Not for me and certainly not for the jury.
As I read about the 20 Mio/week I must smile and in my mind I saw a little Michael dreaming sitting on the table and drawning many noughts with his pen and not looking how many noughts already were on his paper. sweet.... but not more.

Now I fear that the jury will not think 'sweet' but 'he had lost his sense' and I doubt wheter his is good for the plaintiffs.

Und much more bad are the newspapers in the next days and their headlines. That is the worst.
Therefore they should not have been published.


As somewhere said here: The notes are saying nothing because there is no context to something.
For us and for the people outside they are worthless. Only for Michael's children they are ideell worthy.

I am waiting wheter in the next time on ebay or on a charity event we will see one of these notes....

 

[LindavG]

some people like to argue just because they like sounding smart..

But YES if 90% of the world make 20K or less STILL leave alot of people making over that.. There are 7 Billion people in the world, so 10% leave 1,400,000,000 making over that.. I don't know about you but that's alot of people..

I don't understand the reason behind being an advocate against what I stated.. even if 90% of people make $1 a year, there are still over 1.4 billion people making more than 20K..

10% of 7 billion = 700 million. And these are not individuals but households (i.e. at least 2 people) so you need to divide that in two (at least) = 350 million. That's more or less the populations of the US and Canada combined. That may sound like a lot if you ignore the fact that there are hundreds of other countries in the world.

And lets really put things in perspective, majority of people that make less than 20K a year are not spending there day on a Michael Jackson forum.. Nor do they have the money to waste on internet. So it is fairly safe to say that a good majority of house holds that would even read or hear of MJ wanting to make 20 million a day or whatever it is make 20K or more..

This is not about MJ. You're confusing me with another poster, I never said it was wrong for MJ to want 20 million a week. I'd love to have that kind of money myself, who wouldn't? My only disagreement is with people who claim that a million or 20 million is not a lot of money for one person to hold. Anyone who believes that lives in a bubble, I'm sorry.

And I think Michael was well aware that as well.. That's why he gave what he did.... I can't say I gave that percentage of my income away.. can you???

No, because I barely make enough money (as a student) to pay for my own expenses. Michael was incredibly generous, no one is denying that.

And this is really the last thing I will say about this, I promise Let's get back on topic.

 

[smoothlugar]

Oh dear. Anyway it still just have me thinking. He believed the docs when they said prof was safe if monitored, so he will believe them if they say it is not rem.

How were you going to get rem Michael?

Perhaps before it wasn't so broadly known the differences between anesthesia and sleep.

Some of the witnesses in this trial that have stressed such differences are relying in recent research. If I'm not wrong Early relied on experiments done after 2009 and Dr. Emery Brown the anesthesiologist who testified last July relied on his research since 2004...

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/apr/10/anaesthesia-coma-sleep-emery-brown

"Before your research, is it true to say that there was little enquiry into how anaesthesia worked? Practitioners were just satisfied that it did work…
I think that attitude is pervasive in our field. There were people looking at how anaesthetics work, but what is different about our work is that we are explicitly saying you have to use neuroscience to do it..."

 

[KOPV]

of course 20 million is alot of money, the whole point I was trying to make.. is we do have to keep in mind his income and what a dollar values to himmm!!

him wanting to earn 20 million a day (was it?) is not a "greedy" amount considering what he is used to..

same with me and the way I look at water.. like I said earlier.. I drink over a gallon of water a day.. to me that's nothing!! and I don't find myself "greedy" to do that.. But there are families living off of what I drink like nothing..

Is having an xbox greedy? top of the line computer? a car?? Well in retrospect to some yes.. but to the person that can afford it.. NO!

Michael was not greedy, he was a dreamer.. and he gave a larger percentage away of his money than the average person by far..

 

[LindavG]

How about other notes?

Note 4

Negotiate 40 more shows
movies when?
Randy Phillips
Delio
Halloween special
Ken Eurlikman
Delio Peter Jackson
Randy Phillips
Delio
MJ TV
MJ Radio London
MJ Soda Can London Deal Now
MJ Cookies Deal Now
games activision now

^^There he says negotiate 40 other shows. I thought people said he only wanted 10 and AEG put in 40 more and did not tell him. If he wrote it down, it means he was aware of it.

Funny about soda can now, cookies now. I picture a little boy stomping his feet, shaking his fist and saying, I want MJ soda now! I want MJ cookies now!!!

I never believed AEG would just add 40 shows without telling him. Doesn't he have to sign a contract for that? I'm assuming that by "negotiate" he means discussing the terms of agreement for doing the extra shows (i.e. AEG gets involved in the development of those movies or other sponsorship deals).

The soda can deal sort of came true as well with the Bad 25 Pepsi cans

The name Ken Eurlikman sounds unfamiliar to me. Was he mentioned in the trial?

@ KOPV, you should tell that to the person who called him greedy, not me.

 

[xosweetseducingsighsxo]

It had been better the notes were still in Taj's wall cupboard. What was his reason for giving them to his lawyer???? (rhetorik Question!)
They are Michael's personally thoughts, ideas, ambitious dreams about his plans in the future. They were not written for reading from the people all over the world.

In my opinion the notes are devasting for the plaintiffs in the trial.
20 Millionen a week = 1.040.000.000 per anno and this sounds not very realistic. Not for me and certainly not for the jury.
As I read about the 20 Mio/week I must smile and in my mind I saw a little Michael dreaming sitting on the table and drawning many noughts with his pen and not looking how many noughts already were on his paper. sweet.... but not more.

Now I fear that the jury will not think 'sweet' but 'he had lost his sense' and I doubt wheter his is good for the plaintiffs.

Und much more bad are the newspapers in the next days and their headlines. That is the worst.
Therefore they should not have been published.


As somewhere said here: The notes are saying nothing because there is no context to something.
For us and for the people outside they are worthless. Only for Michael's children they are ideell worthy.

I am waiting wheter in the next time on ebay or on a charity event we will see one of these notes....

I believe that the 20 million a week was just one of the aspirations Michael had for everything he was gonna do. That's what those notes are--Mikey's aspirations. He was simply being a dreamer..

Why they put this out for the universe to see is beyond me.

 

[Mneme]

The name Ken Eurlikman sounds unfamiliar to me. Was he mentioned in the trial?

Look at what I have found, Linda:
http://www.aegworldwide.com/about/divisions/kenehrlichproductions

I had googled 'Ken Ehrlichman' because I rembered this name or so in context with TII.

Maybe detectiv Ivy could Michael's scrawls not decipher easily.

 

[LindavG]

I am reading the notes again to see what I can make of it. In the first note:

It seems that "Script Tut" is written seperately from the musical part. I read it like this: "(...) should be in (...) musical". I don't know if the note about "family" that is written underneath is part of it.

 

[LindavG]

Look at what I have found, Linda:
http://www.aegworldwide.com/about/divisions/kenehrlichproductions

I had googled 'Ken Ehrlichman' because I rembered this name or so in context with TII.

Maybe detectiv Ivy could Michael's scrawls not decipher easily.

I think it has more to do with Michael's notorious spelling, lol. I read Eurlikman too. Maybe Michael just got the name a bit wrong, this can't be a coincidence. He sounds like the kind of guy MJ would want to work with.

 

[jrsfan]

How about other notes?

Note 4

Negotiate 40 more shows
movies when?
Randy Phillips
Delio
Halloween special
Ken Eurlikman
Delio Peter Jackson
Randy Phillips
Delio
MJ TV
MJ Radio London
MJ Soda Can London Deal Now
MJ Cookies Deal Now
games activision now

^^There he says negotiate 40 other shows. I thought people said he only wanted 10 and AEG put in 40 more and did not tell him. If he wrote it down, it means he was aware of it.

Funny about soda can now, cookies now. I picture a little boy stomping his feet, shaking his fist and saying, I want MJ soda now! I want MJ cookies now!!!

I think this note is shortly before he died, he met with Ken Ehrlich on June 24, also Dileo had mentioned finalizing a Halloween special:

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/life/people/2009-06-28-jackson-concerts_N.htm

Longtime Grammy Awards producer Ken Ehrlich, summoned to Staples on Wednesday evening to meet with Jackson on their potential collaboration on a television project, likewise found Jackson upbeat and energetic, overseeing every aspect of the production from video footage to prop cues.




http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/music_blog/2010/01/grammys-go-3d-with-michael-jackson-tribute.html

Ehrlich, who produced the July 7 memorial at Staples Center, said Jackson had promised to appear at the 2010 Grammy Awards. As The Times has previously noted, Ehrlich met with Jackson at one of his final rehearsals, at the time to discuss a Halloween special on CBS. That was when Ehrlich said he first glimpsed the "Earth Song" film.

 

[Ashtanga]

some people like to argue just because they like sounding smart..

:fear:

 

[Petrarose]

Perhaps before it wasn't so broadly known the differences between anesthesia and sleep.

Some of the witnesses in this trial that have stressed such differences are relying in recent research. If I'm not wrong Early relied on experiments done after 2009 and Dr. Emery Brown the anesthesiologist who testified last July relied on his research since 2004...

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/apr/10/anaesthesia-coma-sleep-emery-brown

"Before your research, is it true to say that there was little enquiry into how anaesthesia worked? Practitioners were just satisfied that it did work…
I think that attitude is pervasive in our field. There were people looking at how anaesthetics work, but what is different about our work is that we are explicitly saying you have to use neuroscience to do it..."

But his docs told him about rem sleep. I knew about rem sleep too from psychology classes years ago. They all talked about the benefits of it. They used the term natural sleep. Natural sleep was the one where you needed no pills or drugs to sleep. I guess those articles above are looking at drugs like propofol and how they work, and it is true about the limited research. However, they did know it was not natural sleep, and did not have the same benefits of natural sleep. You are basically in a coma. Michael was told and I really feel he understood what the docs said.

To me there is something missing in this puzzle....

Jrsfan thanks for that information. That was a good find, so now we see that some of this ideas were in motion. I wonder what that special was going to be like?

 

[WhoIsIt89]

Thanks Ivy.
It's amazing he was always concentrated on becoming immortal and the greatest, till the very end. And he is.

P.S. Note 1 written on Angelikson productions paper, what an irony!

Finally...PROOF!! :lol: (just trying to lighten up this thread guys.)

In all honesty, I think had the unfortunate had been fortunate to not have occurred, I think Michael could've completed most of this stuff. Had he gotten through the This Is It concert successfully, barring any setbacks like unneeded tour breaks, had he gotten through 50 shows and all, his image would've seen the same, if not better, positive resurgence it had got when he passed. People would've marveled over his professionalism, over his ability to still pull off these incredible routines at such an age. They would've been talking about how the King still sits atop his throne among the age of the younger artists who idolize but still can't touch the master at his craft. I don't think this is wishful thinking either, as the same happened when James Brown finished his shows.

The negative, non-factual tabloid bullcrap lies and accusations would've taken a backseat to the articles of how much revenue the shows generated once completed. Surely with this resurgence, the demand for Michael would've skyrocketed. Without all of this, he most definitely would've solved his housing situation. With the money, the demands, the new album in response of the demand, Michael would be worth a substantial amount of money. Obviously he would've contributed some of that worth to making his movies.

And things would've been great for all of us.....-sigh-

 

[Petrarose]

Whoisit I do see a lot of optimism there as well. No shaky Michael. No Michael crying for his papa. Of course we have no details, but it does not seem as though the ideas involved his family or Joe. Most likely Prince would have worked on the movies with his dad and later on would take full control of it. Oh well...

Love the proof comment!!

Ash you had me sitting and staring at that Thriller Michael blinking above. He was so serious during Thriller.

 

[LindavG]

Whoisit I do see a lot of optimism there as well. No shaky Michael. No Michael crying for his papa. Of course we have no details, but it does not seem as though the ideas involved his family or Joe. Most likely Prince would have worked on the movies with his dad and later on would take full control of it. Oh well...

Why, is that what they are claiming (that Michael planned on working with his family)?

 

[bad25]

MJ always dream big and want more and he achieved most of what he had dreamt of. i wish I'm like. I always can't get what i wanted. T.T