Michael & the KFC Problem

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So what happens if I just decide that I am hungry at the moment and wish to quickly grab something to eat without making a big thing of it? Do I have to get a gross vegan whopper instead of a mouth-watering real whopper? It's like dating a girl with a "nice personality" instead of having sex with a girl who is actually attractive. You know?
 
I understand the point, and respect it. But not sure why Michael's being bought into it? So he liked KFC...big deal. What, should he have not eaten it so his fans wouldn't eat it? Poor guy couldn't do anything.

Exactly. Michael did so much for this world, why couldn't he eat a chicken if he liked it?
 
Interesting discussion on both sides.

It seems to me that the vegetarian contingency use the poor conditions in meat factories as one reason to be vegetarian.

The meat eaters here almost unanimously support improving the conditions of animals but do not find the poor conditions enough reason to become vegetarian.

It seems that whenever this argument comes up, vegetarians try to convert meat eaters while the meat eaters frankly don't care and take offense to the self-righteous claims made by vegetarians.

I think the focus of this argument should be on the poor conditions that these animals live in and changing that. We need to make sure these animals are provided fair animal rights.

The back and forth between the two sides wont go anywhere. The whole world isn't going to become vegetarian. Humans are omnivores. Only because we have advanced as a species beyond the rules of the Animal Kingdom is this even an option. Our minds are altering our natural instincts. Do you think the first humans would care what they ate? As long as they had food, it didn't matter whether it was berries or deer.

So how do we give these animals better living conditions? Since many of you have researched this, are there ways for meat eaters to help the situation without giving up meat?
 
So what happens if I just decide that I am hungry at the moment and wish to quickly grab something to eat without making a big thing of it? Do I have to get a gross vegan whopper instead of a mouth-watering real whopper? It's like dating a girl with a "nice personality" instead of having sex with a girl who is actually attractive. You know?

Oh Grand Master, College will blow your mind!! :tease:
You'll find great mouth-watering attractive girls with wonderful brain wave patterns of gay hippies. It'll be great!!
Just keep an open mind! And you know, girls like that conscious young gentlemen. Borrow a baby and a dog and go for a walk in the park- it'll yield outstanding results! :dont_mention_it:

Ask a girl to go out to dinner at a wonderful local place- you'll enjoy desert so much more because you impressed her so much more!
 
Maybe Grand Master will tell us where he is going to school? After the big move? I am sure a kind sould will be able to tell him if there is any food around... :angel:

Middle Tennessee State, but it doesn't really matter because I'm not changing my eating habits :lol:. I'll have a hard enough time worrying about not failing due to my epic lazyness which amygrace has successfully discovered.

And you know, girls like that conscious young gentlemen.

I would in fact trade meat for sex. In fact I would compromise most of my life beliefs for that. Maybe you guys should all start considering that as your next strategy...
 
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So how do we give these animals better living conditions? Since many of you have researched this, are there ways for meat eaters to help the situation without giving up meat?

Buy meat only from providers that treat their animals humanely. But expect to pay for it. If you are in college, forget it. It's too expensive.
 
*goes and enjoys a gay/bisexual/heterosexual/hippiesmug* coffee in the sunshine. :cheeky:
:lmao:


StaceyMJ said:
I understand the point, and respect it. But not sure why Michael's being bought into it? So he liked KFC...big deal. What, should he have not eaten it so his fans wouldn't eat it? Poor guy couldn't do anything.
I was only wondering why he ate meat from KFC, considering how he had compassion for animals. That's all. Just something I always wondered about. I'm not harping on him for it. Pure curiosity...nothing wrong with that.

Court.ney.x said:
Humans need meat to live and so do animals.
Well, humans don't NEED it, no. In cases where there is nothing else to eat, yes we have to survive and eating an animal is ok in order to do that. Again, my post wasn't to say "it's wrong to eat animals". It was to say "it's wrong that animals are being treated this way in order for us to eat them". I wanted to raise awareness, because if we don't recognize the issue it won't change. Eating at places that receive factory farming animals is only fueling the fire of the injustice being done. Everyone is turning the other cheek... while these poor animals suffer.


Court.ney.x said:
But I have question, Amy. Do you think less of Michael because he enjoyed eating KFC? He cared very much about animals and the world but my gosh, he was human and got hungry sometimes too..everybody has their special cravings.
Of course I don't. I thought I made that clear in my first post. I don't know why Michael ate from KFC if he knew what happened to the animals... but I mean I don't blame him. He was only human like the rest of us, and he sure as hell did a lot of good in the world and gave love to a lot of animals. Again, I was only curious about the mismatching of how he fought some for animals rights and yet ate straight from tortured animals. And again, no judgment... it just struck me as odd.
 
I tried being Vegetarian for about 6 mos but I became severely anemic to the point of being dangerous to my health. I can't take supplement, they made me sick. So I started to eat meat again but mostly seafood. I don't eat KFC and can't remember the last time I did. Does anybody own or seen documentary called Food Inc? I just wasn't the same after seeing that documentary. The way big corporations treated farm animals is just horrible. But eating meat or not eating meat is a personal choice imo. I ate less and less meat now and only buy organic if I do. Still, organic products are very expansive and not everybody can afford it.
 
I'm just sick of people doggin on him for every little thing he did. The thread would have been just as effective to highlight the problems with KFC without the Michael mention imo.
 
Hmm well, maybe Michael just didn't know about it. In the Opus book there is a story from a lady who says she was showing Michael videos of animal cruelty and he had no idea some of it went on. Whilst watching the video she said he was smiling at the caged monkeys/birds or something and she had to explain what the videos were showing.. apparently Michael was moved and he wrote a song. So perhaps he just didn't know what was going on at KFC.

Besides just because people eat meat doesn't mean they have no compassion for animals.
Eating meat is a personal choice at the end of the day I don't consider people to be 'bad' because they go to KFC.

I think there are seperate issues here, there is the issue of cruelty (the conditions and how the animals are treated whilst they are alive), and there is the issue of killing animals for meat. I personally eat chicken and fish. I wouldn't eat chicken where I knew the animal had been subject to cruelty, just like I wouldn't have eggs from chicken who has been kept in horrid conditions, I'd rather have free range & organic. There are humane ways of keeping and killing an animal. Some farms or slaughterhouses treat the animals with unnecessary cruelty, but not all. There are ways to make sure you eat meat from well treated animals, you need to find where it came from.

Its not like eating meat is a new thing, it is in our background, we are omnivores made to eat meat and vegetables. Look how a fox kills a rabbit, a bear kills a fish, a tiger kills a buffalo etc. all around us animals are killing other animals, its nature, we are animals too, just higher up the food chain.. though I guess if we were alone in a forest with bears or in the jungle with a lion they'd have no problem eating us, like if we set all the chickens free into the world they'd be ripped to shreds by other animals, sometimes nature isn't pretty.

I respect your feelings about this and I agree with your sentiments about the unnecessary cruelty that happens in some places.

I lived with a vegan at university, she was extreme though, its not just eating meat there are animal products in lots of things.. glue, gelatin (in sweets, marshmellows, candy), some pharmaceutic capsules, medicines, rubber, plastics, perfumes, dyes, cosmetics, leather of course, soap, vitamins, tennis rackets, musical instruments, alcohol, even toothpaste....theres endless lists - http://www.happycow.net/health-animal-ingredients.html http://www.brighthub.com/environment/green-living/articles/12073.aspx http://vegetarian-issues.suite101.com/article.cfm/hidden_nonvegetarian_ingredients You would have to be seriously commited to make sure nothing you ever bought or consumed contained anything which used any kind of animal product, because although sometimes its obvious because its listed and talked about it is also hidden everywhere.

Then we have animal testing but that is easier to avoid.. shampoo/conditioner, sunscreen, makeup, drugs etc.

So anyway, did KFC not change like they said they would?

Canadian-born actor Ryan Gosling is joining the crusade to save the cluckers of the world from becoming the main course in your next box of Chicken McNuggets.

The Oscar-nominated Notebook star just fired off a letter to McDonald’s CEO Jim Skinner — on behalf of controversial animal rights group People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals — asking the corporate boss to adopt a more humane slaughter method for the chickens who are killed for the chain’s popular McNuggets. Check out what Ryan had to say:
Jim Skinner, CEO
McDonald’s Corporation
2111 McDonald’s Dr.
Oak Brook, IL 60523

Dear Mr. Skinner,
I was shocked to learn from my friends at PETA that McDonald’s, a company that claims to be an industry leader in animal welfare, still allows its suppliers to use an outdated chicken slaughter method that results in broken wings and legs and causes birds to be scalded to death in defeathering tanks.
Many of McDonald’s suppliers in Europe already use a much more humane slaughter method that eliminates the worst cruelty. What’s your excuse?
Because no federal laws govern the treatment of chickens during slaughter, the responsibility lies in your company’s hands to create and maintain a high standard of animal welfare. I hope you will agree that the time has come for McDonald’s to truly take action to reduce the suffering of chickens killed for its restaurants. I look forward to hearing your decision. Thank you.
Sincerely,
Ryan Gosling

This isn’t the first time the screen hunk has used his star power to put an end to animal cruelty.Two years ago, Ryan penned a very similar letter to KFC’s Canadian headquarters, asking the company to update to more modern methods of slaughter. Shortly after, the fast food chain agreed purchase 100% of its chickens from suppliers that use humane slaughter methods.
 
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Amy I know all about what goes on with animals before they are slaughter to be eaten. Because I have seen the hidden camera reports. And for the first 15 years of my life I grew up on my grandfather's dairy farm. Where I had eaten his own cows. Even though I know all of this I still tend to eat meat. But I am trying very hard to stop eating meat and become a vegetarian. I already given up eating all pork products a good few years or so ago. And believe me I don't miss eating pork at all. Now is just that I find the smell of some pork product being cooked nauseating. And it tends to upset me when I see some kind of pork product being cooked. Because I automatically begin to feel so bad for that poor pig that was slaughter. For the meats that comes from cows I am trying to stop eating completely. Most red meats I won't eat at all. Ground up red meat is the only red meat I eat now. But I would rather not eat that anymore. And eat ground up turkey meat instead. The only meats I prefer eating now is chicken, turkey, shrimp, and fish. I don't see anything wrong with eating meat. my late grandmother has always said that God has put animals on Earth for people to eat. Is just now I would rather not eat most meat products.
 
I don't know why people are worrying about Michael eating KFC when he isn't even here anymore.
 
I'm just sick of people doggin on him for every little thing he did. The thread would have been just as effective to highlight the problems with KFC without the Michael mention imo.

I agree, Stacey. The man couldn't do anything without people getting on his back about it. Now he's not even allowed to eat fried chicken..
 
Dangerous21 said:
I think the focus of this argument should be on the poor conditions that these animals live in and changing that. We need to make sure these animals are provided fair animal rights.

The back and forth between the two sides wont go anywhere. The whole world isn't going to become vegetarian. Humans are omnivores.
I completely agree with this! This was the whole point really I didn't think I was coming off as trying to convert anyone... I tried making this clear in many posts. It's just that I think when this subject comes up, for meat eaters... whether or not the vegatrians are trying to "convert", they will get upset trying to defend their place. But I keep saying, it's not that eating meat is bad, it's about what is happening to the animals. The conditions. We need to change this.


Dangerous21 said:
So how do we give these animals better living conditions? Since many of you have researched this, are there ways for meat eaters to help the situation without giving up meat?
Yes, you can not buy it from fast food places or anywhere that gets their meat from factory farms, but purchase from local or family friendly farmers that treat the animals humanely. You simply stop the demand of factory farms.
 
Guys, amygrace loves and respects Michael, I don't think she meant to sound like she was having a go at him.
 
The problem with these animal rights activists are that most of them are a part of PETA. PETA took in over 2500 animals last year (2009). Out of those, they adopted 8 and euthanized the rest. Why are these statistics ignored?
 
There are so many things that we don't know what goes on. I didn't know that a lot of Disney products were made at a sweat shop in Haiti until very recently. I understand the cruelty of it all but I don't understand the need to bring Michael into it. I doubt he even knew the treatment of the chickens by KFC. There are so many things we eat and wear that are not made to what are percieved ethical standards. Yesterday I found out that the plastic casing in lipsticks are made my children in India for next to nothing. Its hard to avoid it all but Michael shouldn't be criticised for eating KFC. With all his history and him constantly saying how he didn't like to eat I was glad that he found something that he actually enjoyed eating.
 
Mind if I hop back to the origin of this conversation and thread? Why Michael enjoyed KFC while perhaps knowing how the chickens, and/or other animals were treated while going through the slaughter house? I mean, cause that's what it "should" be about considering it's in a MJ Discussion thread....right?

This is all clearly my take on it. Me guessing what Michael may have thought since he enjoyed a good ole' bucket o' chicken every once in awhile.

Well...I think we all know he was very spiritual and faithful toward God. Hell...he knew the Bible like the back of his hand probably. I've seen some pictures of his notebooks that talk about the travels of Jesus, and the old Testament as well. Very interesting words! But anyways, I think he understood what the general purpose of an animal was. For it to be eaten. That's why God put many specific animals on Earth. I do not question his love of animals and for their proper care. He's so in-tune to all those things. Does anyone also remember when he WAS a vegetarian in the 80's? I mean, I think it was then that he realized some of the cruelty that was put on animals just to be produced for consumers. But with his rigorous schedules and activity, I think he couldn't stay away from real, natural protein in his diet. So he had to go back to eating meat. And I'm sure he didn't mind that. And after seeing how much he LOVED KFC from books, articles, and other celebs confessing this, i'm gonna go with the notion that he was the type of guy that knew what was happening, but looked at both sides of the spectrum.

In the end, he decided to eat it anyway...and that alone speaks for itself.

I didn't want to step on anyone's toes, so I hope i succeeded at that. I'm not a vegetarian, but know many that are for other reasons than because of the cruelty of killing animals.

I mean hey....if you're a vegetarian because of the cruelty issue, go and try some authentic kobe beef from Japan. They PAMPER those sons of bitches to make some of the tastiest meat out there.
 
I semi agree with Grand Master, just in. More polite tone...I eat meat, but I'm against the way they are treated. I don't eat food from KFC or buy meat from a store.
 
Guys, amygrace loves and respects Michael, I don't think she meant to sound like she was having a go at him.

Of course not. It was just a question. It had crossed my mind before. But like a previous poster said, he may not have even been aware of the origins of KFC food.
 
Originally Posted by Dangerous21
So how do we give these animals better living conditions? Since many of you have researched this, are there ways for meat eaters to help the situation without giving up meat?

Yes, you can not buy it from fast food places or anywhere that gets their meat from factory farms, but purchase from local or family friendly farmers that treat the animals humanely. You simply stop the demand of factory farms.

Do you know Jamie Oliver? Chef from England who is basically the face of Sainsburys supermarket..? He has a campaign going trying to get all the supermarkets etc to ONLY sell chicken from more humane suppliers.

He had a program 'Jamies fowl dinners'

http://www.channel4.com/food/on-tv/jamie-oliver/jamies-fowl-dinners/

There are tips on how to buy well, the labels to look for

[ http://www.channel4.com/food/on-tv/...cken-label-jargon-buster-08-01-07_p_1.htmletc. ]

There is another chef Hugh , doing the same thing.

http://www.channel4.com/food/on-tv/...-hugh-and-tesco-too-gallery-09-01-26_p_1.html

For those in the UK - this is info about the supermarkets -

http://www.channel4.com/food/on-tv/...about-the-shops-you-shop-in-08-01-11_p_1.html
 
see..i think people post of a subject matter that they believe, and as a result, it brings up a discussion, like this. they believe something about Michael, and then they discuss, and make a judgement, purely based on what they believe, but not necessarily what they can confirm, beyond the shadow of a doubt. and that is truly all i am going to say on this.
 
Ok, I know I should have read all of this thread...but it's 7am...I've had no sleep...so I thought I would just jump straight in :p

I was a vegetarian for about 8 years, so I know where you are coming from with your feelings about not wanting to eat meat. And as you said, you can either eat it or you don't, there's no judgement here.

Basically, the reason I began eating meat again, is because I was advised to by my doctor. I was eating things like spinach,eggs and legumes and everything like that to substitute for what I wasn't getting from meat, but my body wasn't absorbing it well...I mean, there is only so much that one person can eat of something! My health wasn't the best, and was told by my doctor to at least start eating some white meat - if I was set on not eating the red. He said at least fish.

I eat all meat now. Why? If I am going to eat fish...I'm eating an animal. If I am going to consume dairy products...I am well aware of how they were produced...I figure I can't only eat some and not the other, just sounds a little hypocritical to me.

I try my best, to eat only free-range eggs, and organic products, but at the end of the day, we can't always do that. I've just come to terms with the fact that yes, this is how life is. We breed animals as a source of food. We grow crops as a source of food. Maybe we are all just hypocrits, to be so against animal cruelty...yet still consume the products.

It's a tough one, and I always get stuck into a debate with someone on it.

I guess the question I ask to you Amygrace...is do you have a problem with organic meat? I mean, I know they are treated better when raised, but...without upsetting anyone with this comment, their life is still ended the same way. They are still being bred for the same purpose. Do you think it's wrong to fish from the ocean when you go camping? I may catch 2 fish...and fishing boats will catch 1000's. But at the end of the day, they are caught and killed the same way.

Look at the animal kingdom. I hate seeing lions slaughter deer or whatever...but it's just their way of life.

this is why I bring up the organic meat thing, and the whole fishing thing too.

BTW, totally not an attack on you and your original post!!! I am happy you voiced your opinion :) Just wanted to hear more of your thoughts.

Sorry if you've mentioned this elsewhere...link me...I'm still half asleep hehe :)
 
Wasn't this supposed to be about Michael Jackson?????

You can't really avoid the resulting discussion. If we stick to the question pure and simple 'was why did Michael eat KFC?' Well.. because he liked it. Thats the simple answer.
 
Ok, and sorry I didn't mention anything about Michael in my post. I know this thread is about him. I am sure he has his own reasons for why he eats meat.

Maybe like most people, we have that feeling of wanting to protect the animals in the wild - the ones becoming extinct through our lack of repect for the envorinment etc etc.

There is a big difference in emotional attachment to the whales we see in the ocean, the koalas we see in the trees and the orangutans we see struggling to survive in their homes being torn down. Much more of an attachment to the animals that are known to us as being raised for consumption...like farm animals. Chickens. They aren't becoming extinct. Their homes aren't being destroyed. Maybe this is how people see things.

Again, hope that made sense....I'm sleepy :p
 
I eat meat. But I understand your point Amy. I love animals and I hate how some (maybe most) factories are treating them. That's why I would like to support those companies who raise the animals in free space like they are supposed to live (can't remember the word in English right now) but sometimes it's not possible.

I do think about the animals and their poor conditions anyway and it hurts to know how cruel human being can be WHEN there actually is other, better and more human ways to work things out aswell.



Maybe the thread should be changed just to be about being vegetarian/eating meat..
 
I would never buy meat from KFC or any big stores though because until this awful situation with animals is fixed, I want no part in it. I will not vote and ask for more.

.



Me neither. Thanks for the link.
 
...and this is why I can't stand most vegetarians. Michael liked KFC, so what? I like it too.

I'm sorry if I come off as rude but the OP sounded overwhelmingly preachy. If you want to be a vegetarian, great for you, buy seriously? That kind of post belongs in PETA or some other like organization, in my opinion.

Eating meat doesn't make you a bad person. It's a lifestyle choice--just like yours. Besides, how are you so sure that plants don't suffer too? Just because they can't express it? You're still killing something, no matter what. May as well not eat at all.
 
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