Michael & the KFC Problem

[amygrace]

I would guess we have more meat eaters here than vegetarians, so many of you have probably never given thought to this at all...but it's something that I have wondered about and has actually bugged me quite a bit...and that is Michael and his love for KFC.

Obviously, I understand the whole "it just tastes good" notion - I certainly don't judge Michael for loving the taste...lol. And I don't judge anyone who eats meat. I mean, I also love the taste and ate meat for 22 years before I became aware of what I was really taking in and doing to the animals of the world. And see, this is what gets me. Michael was not only a humanitarian - but he also really cared for the planet and the animals. And he was intelligent...surely he was aware of what animals go through to be eaten by people...wouldn't you think? It's such a BIG and horrible problem, I wonder why he would still eat meat. I know Michael went vegetarian a few times - but as I’ve read it was just for personal health. But what about the animals?...the poor animals! My God the tragedy. :no:

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Michael was a bad person for eating meat - I just wonder...why? For the animals...why? What makes it even worse is that since many fans know he loved KFC, they go out and eat it...just because he did. And so the chain of pain for these animals is perpetuated.

For anyone who doesn't know about what goes on in factory farms; what REALLY happens to the animals you eat, I ask...no I beg, that you please do some research. Please...for the animals sake. I know that ultimately people just do what they want and most of the time this subject just comes down to the fact that it simply tastes good. Nobody is willing to give up the taste. And so in the battle of compassion vs. tastebuds - the tastebuds win. It is so sad and makes me just want to scream like Michael "DO WE GIVE A DAMN?!!"

Let me just paint a picture for you here quick. Imagine...

• Thousands of chickens, jam packed in a room next to each other to the point that they can hardly move. Literally. They live only to lay eggs. It's hot, they get sick, many develop disease and die.
• Baby chicks, just born, being put straight on a conveyor belt that at the end of the ride will grind them up alive.
• Baby pigs that are born runts, are dragged by their feet and beaten to death.
• Cows being hung by their feet until they meet a man with a knife that slits their throat open. Some are then dropped to the ground and left to wallow in pain until they die.
  
• Baby cows being used for veal will be put in tiny stalls all by themselves, chained at the neck so they can't turn around or move more than a step forward or backward so that they don't develop muscle. When they are 16 weeks they are forced into a truck, which they usually have trouble walking to since they were not able to move much at all before, so they are then struck with electric prods or chained by the neck and dragged.

All of that is real. It happens. I've SEEN it happen. And this is just SOME of the picture. Since, for reasons I don’t know, Michael never brought up it, I really wanted to. For those who may not know. I just hate to see comments on here sometimes that are like "I was really missing Michael so I ordered a big bucket of KFC". I just think... do you even KNOW what you are eating? Of all the things to do in Michael's name, that certainly wouldn't be it for me. :no:


EDIT: Here is a good website worth looking through. "Kentucky Fried Cruelty". http://www.kentuckyfriedcruelty.com/

 

[Hocus]

:clapping::clapping::clapping:

I'm a vegetarian too... :wink:

 

[MJfan10]

:clapping::clapping::clapping:

I'm a vegetarian too... :wink:

Me too

 

[MarielovesMJ]

I don't think I have the endurance to be a vegan. Even though I know my heart can't take the meat. I tried and couldn't take it.

 

[Yeezy]

Seriously couldnt give up eating meat.

Its cruelty but its the world we live in.

 

[Sophielo]

I would love to be a vegetarian and I would rather be one. It's just that I find most vegetarian meals really dull, bland, and tasteless. I don't have the endurance to become one and I'd still have to eat fish.

 

[amygrace]

Glad to see some vegetarians here!

MarielovesMJ - It can be quite hard to make the change if you really love meat. There are a lot of alternatives though. I buy these Vegan burgers sometimes, you can get them at Wal-Mart next to the waffles, they are imitation burgers made from soybeans. Really good.

Grand Master - that was a very rude and disrespectful comment. Can we not discuss this issue in a humane matter? Being humane is the whole point of my post, afterall. You are missing the point. The circle of life does not involve brutally killing and torturing any living life "beneath" us... and just because we can. The circle of life is about survival. People kill animals for greed, not survival.

.............

Just edited my post by the way with this great link: http://www.kentuckyfriedcruelty.com/

 

[Anna]

I respect vegetarians. Some of my family are vegetarians and I was for a short time. But not eating the animals being killed, in my opinion, is a waste. I see nothing wrong with eating an animal that has already been killed FOR THE PURPOSE of being eaten. Their death should mean something.
The reason people like me can love animals, but feel okay about eating meat, is because when it comes down to it, we are eating a product which has already been killed and therefore should not go to waste. If faced with the option of eating vegetables or personally killing an animal to eat it, I would choose vegetables obviously. And I would not ask someone to kill an animal for me, so I could eat it. I am only eating what has already been killed. What is already available as a product that needs to be eaten.
We are meant to eat meat. Our bodies need the nutrients we get from it and that's why we have canine and incisor teeth.

 

[Upside]

Wow amygrace, what a post. Very moving.

I myself am a vegetarian and I'm sickened by the thought of eating meat. I've been a vegetarian since I was very young I know for a fact I always will be. The meat industry is sick and cruel and I don't know how anyone can eat meat without giving it a second thought, or without feeling even a slight amount of guilt.

Animals give us so much; milk, eggs, cheese etc, and what do we give back? Absolutely nothing. I really hope that one day everyone will see what it really means to eat meat. This is something I'm so passionate about and I'm really glad you brought it up. I'm an animal lover and I'd never, ever dream of even harming a fly.

 

[amygrace]

Its cruelty but its the world we live in.

But we can change the world. That kind of thinking doesn't change anything, it just perpetuates as if we are only victims. No, we have the power to make things right! Even if I couldn't get the whole world to change though, I would at least be happy knowing I wasn't contributing to it's injustice.

I would love to be a vegetarian and I would rather be one. It's just that I find most vegetarian meals really dull, bland, and tasteless. I don't have the endurance to become one and I'd still have to eat fish.

I think this is also why many people won't go vegetarian is because they think it's switching to nothing but beans and rice, fruit bowls and salads. Hehe. But there really is a wide variety of most delicious options! You just have to take the effort to look for them. But these days, it's as easy as Googling "delicious vegan/vegetarian meals". Also, something to note, our taste buds take I think 2 or 3 weeks to acclimate change. We only continue to eat the same stuff, and crave the same stuff, because our taste buds hold a memory of what we have eat in the past few weeks. Once we start to make change and endure those few weeks, suddenly you will find yourself craving the new things... and you will find your body speaking to you even, craving things it simply needs... foods that have certain vitamins it's low on.

 

[JudgingNoone]

To me, eating meat isn't inherently wrong. We are a part of the food chain, just as cows, wolves and lions are. Just as I'd never blame a shark for eating a smaller fish, I'd never blame a human for eating a chicken. The problem is not the fact of eating meat in itself, but how horribly we treat the animals. That's why I always make an effort to buy meat from animal friendly farmers, who let the chickens move around freely outdoors and the cows out to pasture.

That said, I've tried being a vegetarian because of the animal cruelty involved in today's mass production of meat. But being allergic to soy beans, among many other things, it was just too complicated. I couldn't get enough protein without meat or eggs.

 

[Grand Master S]

Grand Master - that was a very rude and disrespectful comment. Can we not discuss this issue in a humane matter? Being humane is the whole point of my post, afterall. You are missing the point. The circle of life does not involve brutally killing and torturing any living life "beneath" us... and just because we can. The circle of life is about survival. People kill animals for greed, not survival.

Carnivores in the jungle could hypothetically survive off of plants, but they don't because it's not in their nature. Just like it's not in our nature to not eat meat when it's available.

If you want to advocate for bettering the conditions of animals who are killed for meat, that is one thing. If you want to be a vegeterian as a personal life choice, that is one thing (well, it's two things now technically but you get the point).

Trying to make others feel guilty for actually eating meat is entirely different, because there is NOTHING wrong with eating animals. Nothing, nothing, nothing. In fact I'm going to go grab a hamburger specifically because of this conversation, which I wasn't planning on doing before.

Do I wish that the animals killed for food were treated better? Hell yes. If I decided right now to boycott meat because of that, however, the ONLY thing that would happen is that I would go through my life dissatisfied with my meals. Either that or I would eventually give up and go back to eating meat, making the entire thing pointless.

I won't presume to know all of Michael's beliefs, but remember that he strongly believed in God, which would suggest that every living creature has its purpose. He was against the suffering of animals, he was against species being wiped out, but nothing that he said or did in his life (at least publically) was contradicted by the act of eating meat. Jesus ate meat too, so... Yeah.

 

[amygrace]

I see nothing wrong with eating an animal that has already been killed FOR THE PURPOSE of being eaten. Their death should mean something.

Actually, with factory farming, which provides all of our meat in grocery stores and fast food place, the purpose isn't so people can eat. The purpose is for money. And it's that hunger for money that gets in the way. The factory farms will spare no compassion to get their money. They will cram the animals, they will let them get sick, get diseased, inject them with drugs and hormones, purposely inflict them with pain and suffering if they have to. To them it doesn't matter...animals are not lives with feelings like us, they are only money makers.

The reason people like me can love animals, but feel okay about eating meat, is because when it comes down to it, we are eating a product which has already been killed and therefore should not go to waste.

So, say someone handed you $1,000 that they only got by murdering a family that money belonged to. Would you spend it? I mean, why let $1,000 go to waste? You could certainly use it, couldn't you? Wouldn't you? I wouldn't. It's blood money...given to me for all the wrong reasons. It's injustice. The same goes for the meat I am offered on a daily basis by ads, stores, fast food joints... I will not take that meat if I am hungry... just because it's there. Because I know what that animal went through and why, to get on my plate. And I would only be saying "OK" to the injustice.

I would not ask someone to kill an animal for me, so I could eat it. I am only eating what has already been killed.

Not necessarily. By buying the meat, you are asking for more animals to be killed so you can buy some more. And the animals that has already been killed that you are eating, is only there from previous "votes" (buyers). Just like every time you buy a tabloid, it perpetuates the business of tabloids. They will keep making them so long as there is demand for it.

We are meant to eat meat. Our bodies need the nutrients we get from it and that's why we have canine and incisor teeth.

Sorry but this is also wrong. I mean, we were made to be able to eat meat, yes, (good to have in cases of survival when you have to have meat) but our bodies do not need their nutrients. In fact, there is so much disease in the meat we are getting because of the way factory farms are doing. Do you know every glass of milk you drink has blood and puss in it? Some of which is still carrying the hormones given to cows to grow faster...and thus many children these days are developing adolescent bodies a lot faster. But anyway, all the nutrients we ever need is provides in plants, vegetables, fruits, and beans.

The meat industry is sick and cruel and I don't know how anyone can eat meat without giving it a second thought, or without feeling even a slight amount of guilt.

Animals give us so much; milk, eggs, cheese etc, and what do we give back? Absolutely nothing. I really hope that one day everyone will see what it really means to eat meat.

True true. I also wonder how many people do feel guilty and still eat meat. Why not be the change you wish to see in the world?

 

[PaceMioDolceCuore]

There definitely is a point in at least eating LESS meat. Because we do our share of keeping way too many animals confined in horrible spaces, feeding them unnatural things. Cows are not supposed to eat a diet of mainly grains- they are supposed to graze outside and munch grassy bits with occasional grains in them. Not stand in their own excrement and be electrocuted. I most definitely see your point.

We are literally flooding the planet with excrement because of these unnaturally high number of animals being bred only for consumption. That causes huge unnatural environmental impacts. If people would eat only half as much meat, things would look better already. Meat is cheap and thank goodness people in certain countries don't have to starve anymore but enough people are still starving.

I'm a pescetarian, meaning I still eat seafood, but no meat. No chicken, no beef. I haven't eaten meat in 10 years and I won't in the future.

And no, vegetarian food does not have to be bland or dull, that's just bad cooking...

So I most definitely see the point.

 

[dangerous_88]

no offense but I find this kinda pointless...

 

[amygrace]

To me, eating meat isn't inherently wrong. We are a part of the food chain, just as cows, wolves and lions are. Just as I'd never blame a shark for eating a smaller fish, I'd never blame a human for eating a chicken. The problem is not the fact of eating meat in itself, but how horribly we treat the animals. That's why I always make an effort to buy meat from animal friendly farmers, who let the chickens move around freely outdoors and the cows out to pasture.

That said, I've tried being a vegetarian because of the animal cruelty involved in today's mass production of meat. But being allergic to soy beans, among many other things, it was just too complicated. I couldn't get enough protein without meat or eggs.

I do agree, eating meat isn't inherently wrong. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that the way we get meat today, is wrong...because of how animals are being treated. If I were going to eat meat, I would at least get the meat from a local animal friendly farmer... so that I knew the animals were dying humanely, with no pain. I would never buy meat from KFC or any big stores though because until this awful situation with animals is fixed, I want no part in it. I will not vote and ask for more.

Also let me just say here, I am a vegetarian not only for the animals sake but for my health sake too. That is another thing worth researching. I don't want to get into it here, because that is not what the discussion is about...just wanted to say it for myself since one of you mentioned health reasons.

Trying to make others feel guilty for actually eating meat is entirely different, because there is NOTHING wrong with eating animals. Nothing, nothing, nothing. In fact I'm going to go grab a hamburger specifically because of this conversation, which I wasn't planning on doing before.

Wow, how nice and mature of you to read about animals suffering for mass consumption and so you decide to go out and eat more out of spite. Nice. Again, the point of my post is not to make people feel guilty. As I previously said above, eating meat itself is not wrong, no. It's what is being done to the animals. And so, the point of this post is to raise awareness... and hope people have compassion. Obviously, you have none. So ok, thanks for letting me know. You can move on.

 

[amygrace]

We are literally flooding the planet with excrement because of these unnaturally high number of animals being bred only for consumption. That causes huge unnatural environmental impacts. If people would eat only half as much meat, things would look better already. Meat is cheap and thank goodness people in certain countries don't have to starve anymore but enough people are still starving.

Yes! More things people need to think about. Thank you for this.

 

[PaceMioDolceCuore]

Once upon a time a hamburger would be made from one cow. Milk didn't come from 1000000000000 cows all mixed together.

"Mad cow disease" etc are just symptoms of this. We literally feed our animals cr*ap and then we wonder why we get sick. It is not normal for humans to consume a mixture of thousands of animals all mixed together.

This makes us SICK, quite literally.

If you eat meat, eat it consciously. Eat half as much- and afford to buy local organic meat. If we ate less meat, we all could afford better meat. Local meat from your local farmer. Reward the local, organic farmer next door, support your local economy. Reward those that make a conscious effort by farming in a sustainable and responsible way. Not only will that meat taste better but you also did many good deeds in one.

 

[Buttercup]

:clapping::clapping::clapping:

I'm a vegetarian too... :wink:

Me too

Me three

 

[Anna]

amygrace - Please don't use ridiculous examples to try and argue with me. I do not agree with the treatment of these animals, but there is nothing wrong with eating meat and do not try and tell me that there is. Do I wish the animals were treated better? Hell yes. But I will not refuse to eat meat. It will not make any difference to the meat industry. They will still continue to produce it. So why let it go to waste? There is no point.
Animals eat other animals. That's the way it is. Humans are omnivores, not herbivores.

 

[Dianelesley]

Hmm I would like to be completely vegetarian too but I just can't take that step yet. My 15 year old daughter is a vegetarian - she loves meat but hates animal cruelty.

I gave up eating beef because of mad cow disease and the fact that the animals are fed food they should not be eating is the cause of all this in the first place.

The animal suffering shown in your link affected me enough to turn me right off of eating KFC ever again so thanks for that - it served it's purpose!

I suppose the thing with this is, if we are presented with what happens to the animals so graphically we actually think about what we are doing. To sit and eat a burger is fine but to see how it got to be a burger is a whole different ball game!

 

[PaceMioDolceCuore]

I do agree, eating meat isn't inherently wrong.


And so, the point of this post is to raise awareness... and hope people have compassion. Obviously, you have none. So ok, thanks for letting me know. You can move on.

I wished people would read this again. KFC is simply not a responsible way of meat consumption, that's all was the point of this thread. Not guilt induction. If you on the other hand feel guilt for eating at KFC, than that's your burden to carry.

Simply think about the ways your meat consumption comes about and if there is a way to reward those locally that act and farm with responsibility and compassion.

 

[Grand Master S]

Wow, how nice and mature of you to read about animals suffering for mass consumption and so you decide to go out and eat more out of spite. Nice. Again, the point of my post is not to make people feel guilty. As I previously said above, eating meat itself is not wrong, no. It's what is being done to the animals. And so, the point of this post is to raise awareness... and hope people have compassion. Obviously, you have none. So ok, thanks for letting me know. You can move on.

LOL. I was yanking your chain about eating a burger just to spite you. I mean, I did in fact just eat beef before posting this, but that was only because it was lunch time and I was legitimately hungry. Tasted awesome, BTW. 'Twas spaghetti mixed with ground beef all fresh off the pot. Mm.

Anyway, your analogy of taking money from a slaughtered human family kind of doesn't work because the lives of a human family are sort of more important to me than the lives of a family of chickens.

If you eat meat, eat it consciously. Eat half as much- and afford to buy local organic meat. If we ate less meat, we all could afford better meat. Local meat from your local farmer. Reward the local, organic farmer next door, support your local economy. Reward those that make a conscious effort by farming in a sustainable and responsible way.

You are literally right now telling people how to live their lives. LOLLercoaster. All this hippie smugness is starting to get gay.

I don't have have a local organic farmer next door, BTW. I have a Burger King though .

So here's a scenario: I am moving far away from home for the first time in my life later this year to go to college and will be living in some student dorm/apartment. What pray tell would you guys have me do for food without it being a huge pain in the ass? I mean, I already know what I'm going to do and that isn't going to change, but I'm just curious.

 

[amygrace]

amygrace - Please don't use ridiculous examples to try and argue with me. I do not agree with the treatment of these animals, but there is nothing wrong with eating meat and do not try and tell me that there is. Do I wish the animals were treated better? Hell yes. But I will not refuse to eat something which has been killed. It will not make any difference to the meat industry. They will still continue to produce it. So why let it go to waste? There is no point.
Animals eat other animals. That's the way it is. Human beings are omnivores, not herbivores.

I'm sorry you found it a ridiculous example, I was only trying to get you to see it for what it really is. I stand by the example as doing just that.

 

[amygrace]

Anyway, your analogy of taking money from a slaughtered human family kind of doesn't work because the lives of a human family are sort of more important to me than the lives of a family of chickens.

A life is a life...no matter how small. But my analogy wasn't to say that a human family is the same as a chicken family. lol. It was to demonstrate the INJUSTICE was the same. The act of killing a human family is well, awful. The act of killing chickens by brutally torturing them, is also awful. Both are injustice all the same.

So here's a scenario: I am moving far away from home for the first time in my life later this year to go to college and will be living in some student dorm/apartment. What pray tell would you guys have me do for food without it being a huge pain in the ass? I mean, I already know what I'm going to do and that isn't going to change, but I'm just curious.

Lol. Well, I don't see why you would need to ask this because whether you are living in a dorm or not, you still have to go out to get food. So, you could either go to a fast food joint, or go to a grocery store. You simply make the choice of hmm, am I going to be lazy and settle for this meal that's already been prepared, or am I going to take the time to cook something that would give my body proper nutrients? I think your problem is that you are lazy.. which hey, I am too. A lot of people are when it comes to food. But for me it comes down to what is most important. My health is most important, and the animals right to live a happy life is too. So I choose and make the time to feed myself accordingly.

 

[PaceMioDolceCuore]

LOL. I was yanking your chain about eating a burger just to spite you. I mean, I did in fact just eat beef before posting this, but that was only because it was lunch time and I was legitimately hungry. Tasted awesome, BTW. 'Twas spaghetti mixed with ground beef all fresh off the pot. Mm.

Anyway, your analogy of taking money from a slaughtered human family kind of doesn't work because the lives of a human family are sort of more important to me than the lives of a family of chickens.



You are literally right now telling people how to live their lives. LOLLercoaster. All this hippie smugness is starting to get gay.

I don't have have a local organic farmer next door, BTW. I have a Burger King though .

So here's a scenario: I am moving far away from home for the first time in my life later this year to go to college and will be living in some student dorm/apartment. What pray tell would you guys have me do for food without it being a huge pain in the ass? I mean, I already know what I'm going to do and that isn't going to change, but I'm just curious.

Oh God, how did I ever get through college as a pescetarian/vegetarian?
For one, it saved me a lot of money no to eat meat. unk:
I live in a place that is FILLED with college students- and exactly in towns like that you will find many meatless alternatives. That's why I love living here, BECAUSE you thanks to all these smug, "gay" hippies we have these choices here. So rest up, maybe college will be an excellent way to become a bit smugger yourself, don't give up hope yet!

If you can afford Burger King on a daily basis- you can make the effort, give it a try.

Secondly, every rinky dinky town in the US has at least some supermarket SOMEWHERE where an organic alternative is being offered. You just have to look. I found organic alternatives even in the middle of nowhere.

If you wanted, you could do it.

*goes and enjoys a gay/bisexual/heterosexual/hippiesmug* coffee in the sunshine. :cheeky:

Thanks for the laugh Grand Master!

 

[StaceyMJ]

I understand the point, and respect it. But not sure why Michael's being bought into it? So he liked KFC...big deal. What, should he have not eaten it so his fans wouldn't eat it? Poor guy couldn't do anything.

 

[PaceMioDolceCuore]

A life is a life...no matter how small. But my analogy wasn't to say that a human family is the same as a chicken family. lol. It was to demonstrate the INJUSTICE was the same. The act of killing a human family is well, awful. The act of killing chickens by brutally torturing them, is also awful. Both are injustice all the same.


Lol. Well, I don't see why you would need to ask this because whether you are living in a dorm or not, you still have to go out to get food. So, you could either go to a fast food joint, or go to a grocery store. You simply make the choice of hmm, am I going to be lazy and settle for this meal that's already been prepared, or am I going to take the time to cook something that would give my body proper nutrients? I think your problem is that you are lazy.. which hey, I am too. A lot of people are when it comes to food. But for me it comes down to what is most important. My health is most important, and the animals right to live a happy life is too. So I choose and make the time to feed myself accordingly.

Well, in a dorm you usually have a problem with cooking... I can see that point. But SOMEHOW we still managed to eat. Nowwhere near starvation. :rofl:
We even had crock pots in the dorm...:wild:

Maybe Grand Master will tell us where he is going to school? After the big move? I am sure a kind sould will be able to tell him if there is any food around... :angel:

 

[Courtney]

Humans have been killing and eating animals (meat) since the beginning of time. It's how they survived. It's human nature and life. I don't agree with torturing the animals in the process of making them my dinner, but meat is a very important part of a diet. I couldn't live without meat and some diets are strictly just eating meat. My mom went on a special diet (that worked) and while she could eat other (healthy) foods, meat was the most important. Humans need meat to live and so do animals. Humans eat animals. Animals eat animals. I find absolutely nothing wrong about eating meat and if it was wrong then it wouldn't be legal.

I do not agree with animal cruelty one bit, but a human life is the most valuabe and precious life on earth (I believe). Animals are below humans in my opinion, so yes I am saying that (I think) a human life is more important than an animals. And I don't mean to sound selfish but...I have to survive too. I'd rather an animal die than a human.

Don't get me wrong though. Animals are beautiful creatures and I am grateful for them. But imagine how many people all over the world would be dying if we didn't kill the animals for their meat. However, I commend vegetarians. That's a lot of will power you have and I think it's great that you all stick by your morals.

But I have question, Amy. Do you think less of Michael because he enjoyed eating KFC? He cared very much about animals and the world but my gosh, he was human and got hungry sometimes too..everybody has their special cravings. Michael's was Kentucky Fried Chicken. No biggie. Mine is chicken noodle soup...

 

[ginvid]

I think there is nothing wrong with eating meat. But I will buy only chicken and eggs that are from cage free and free roam chickes. I also try to do the same with my beef. I at one time was going to be vegetarian because of how the animals were treated, but I could not. I love meat and never felt satisfied without it. So I choose an alternative that felt right to me.