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Michael - The Great Album Debate

OnirMJ said:
Most of the fans hear it and do care.

I already know most of the answers, it is you who are living in denial.
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I hoped I could help you to deal with your frustration but I failed. I wonder if your answers are helping you to heal your frustration at least little bit?
 
elapentela said:
I hoped I could help you to deal with your frustration but I failed. I wonder if your answers are helping you to heal your frustration at least little bit?
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Are you actually aware that there are plenty of copy-pastes from Invincible in those Cascio tracks?
 
OnirMJ said:
He is well aware. But he is living in denial.
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Except who is singing I really dont't care about the other staff if I like it.

Again I would like to repeat: do something about it if you don't like it. Something really loud outside this board. Force Cascio to defend himself. Just make some validated noise. Create legal excitement. Then maybe people will take you more seriously than just feeling sorry for you.
You may say I'm living in denial but I just like to listen to what I like and waiting for the proof it's not Michael Jackson singing. So far for me it's Michael . If the EXPERTS will suggest it's not him and Cascio won't be able to show reasonable proof, then definitely I would change my opinion. By then I have no needs for doing this.
 
elapentela said:
Except who is singing I really dont't care about the other staff if I like it.

Again I would like to repeat: do something about it if you don't like it. Something really loud outside this board. Force Cascio to defend himself. Just make some validated noise. Create legal excitement. Then maybe people will take you more seriously than just feeling sorry for you.
You may say I'm living in denial but I just like to listen to what I like and waiting for the proof it's not Michael Jackson singing. So far for me it's Michael . If the EXPERTS will suggest it's not him and Cascio won't be able to show reasonable proof, then definitely I would change my opinion. By then I have no needs for doing this.
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Here, enjoy it:

[youtube]KF8DAIi4YoA[/youtube]


p.s. This is actually better than the Cascio tracks :D
 
Chamife said:
I wish people left Michael alone. Honestly.

So tired of people who write books about him and try to analyze him and put him in a box (don't care if it's a golden box or a paper box). I've never read Joe Vogel's book. What's important to me is what I think of Michael and his music, and not what another person thinks. I've never cared about what other people think about Michael and I never will.

When you inform yourself with everything you can find about him, you don't need books. Or maybe I should say, I don't need books. I know enough.
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But here's the thing...the fact that Michael's work can serve as the topic of analytical publications is nothing but a positive. Having that kind of close-minded outlook about Michael (or about anything) can be pretty limiting. As much as we all think we know about Michael and his work, there's always someone else who looks at things from another perspective or with new information. That goes for everything, and that's what makes life interesting. Michael himself loved to analyze other artists' work. It can often make you enjoy their work even more. And not analyzing to the point of nitpicking or pretentiousness, but simply discussing art and why it makes you feel the way it does.

On the subject of Joe Vogel's book, well, that man is one of the few who are blazing a trail for these types of publications about Michael. Nothing but respect for him.
 
I don't understand why some like to live in denial if we can hear in those tracks they pasted fragments from previous well known songs. If people like those Cascio tracks it's their choice but arguing it's Michael "singing" just because they like them and not offering futher proves, it's just unacceptable.

That little baby girl KNOWS! :thumbs_up: :wub:
 
Many of us already said those tracks have pieces from others songs such as Earth Song, Ghost, Why, Threatened, We've Had Enough + the voice from others singers, so it's up to you living in denial...
 
OnirMJ said:
I don't care about your personal life, your peronal problems and what music your kids listen to. My question for you and for all other believers was: "If the songs are real, why did they use samples (breaths, screams, "Why" ad-lib in Monster...) from MJ's previous recordings?" And that is a proven fact. That is not my opinion. They used parts of MJ's previous songs. Why?
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is this really a question?

adlibs are generally what the musicians record last, as the songs weren't finished and as they wanted to make the songs more Michael style they added those - as admitted by Teddy Riley. It is no different than finishing or creating Tupac or Biggie songs from copy pastes of already released songs.

For example the Biggie verse on Michael Jackson's Unbreakable is actually taken from an already released Shaq O'Neil song "Can't Stop The Reign". In other words they copied a part of Notorious Big's verse from "Can't Stop The Reign" and pasted it to Michael's "Unbreakable".

According to your logic that verse and/or Unbreakable has to be a fake / fraud because they copied and pasted it why why? The reality is that Biggie was dead and he couldn't record a new verse for Michael so to add him to the songs they copied and pasted it. It's as legit Biggie vocals as it can be. It's a legit MJ song as it can be. The added copy - paste part doesn't take anything from the authenticity of that song.

Whether they added adlibs or not or why they added them is totally irrelevant to the authenticity issue. My recommendation is stick to the lead vocals issue.
 
ivy said:
is this really a question?

adlibs are generally what the musicians record last, as the songs weren't finished and as they wanted to make the songs more Michael style they added those - as admitted by Teddy Riley. It is no different than finishing or creating Tupac or Biggie songs from copy pastes of already released songs.

For example the Biggie verse on Michael Jackson's Unbreakable is actually taken from an already released Shaq O'Neil song "Can't Stop The Reign". In other words they copied a part of Notorious Big's verse from "Can't Stop The Reign" and pasted it to Michael's "Unbreakable".

According to your logic that verse and/or Unbreakable has to be a fake / fraud because they copied and pasted it why why? The reality is that Biggie was dead and he couldn't record a new verse for Michael so to add him to the songs they copied and pasted it. It's as legit Biggie vocals as it can be. It's a legit MJ song as it can be. The added copy - paste part doesn't take anything from the authenticity of that song.

Whether they added adlibs or not or why they added them is totally irrelevant to the authenticity issue. My recommendation is stick to the lead vocals issue.
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Well, actually it is a very legit question. It's been asked several times why they've added so many copy-pastes, breaths, ad libs to complete the songs if they are indeed authentic.

It's easy to guess why MJ used Biggie's verse. It could have been because MJ liked to use raps in his music, Biggie was a fantastic rapper, and he clearly admired his talent as he's used him several times in his music. He could have used any rapper, dead or alive, but it was clearly because of the lyrical content - 'I Can't Stop the Reign' is synonymous with 'Unbreakable'. In addition, Biggie was credited in the album notes. There is no credit in the album notes in 'Michael'.

The sampling in the Cascio songs is used to form sentences, word for word, without credit in the album notes. So the question remains: WHY do this if the songs are authentic?
 
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Arklove said:

The sampling in the Cascio songs is used to form sentences, word for word, without credit in the album notes. So the question remains: WHY do this if the songs are authentic?
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My mind is blown that this question can still be asked after 20 000 pages on the subject. It's like somebody studying to convert to Christianity and then going, right before Baptism, "wait a second, so who is this Jesus guy again?"

All of those added MJ trademarks, from the hiccups to the yelps, from the "hee's" to the "aow's", were added to make the songs more complete, because the original vocals were incomplete, and MJ was no longer around to record the missing parts. Ad-libs are often the last thing recorded.

Also note that some of the songs DON'T feature those sampled MJ trademarks : All I Need, for instance, has none. And doubters use the ABSENCE of classic MJ'isms on that song to claim that THAT one is fake. So the Cascios can't win with doubters : if there are MJ trademarks on the track, either Malachi did them to fool the listener, or Eddie added them for the same reason. And if there are no MJ'isms, then it proves it's not MJ. So basically doubters can use everything and its complete opposite to prove their point...

By the way, to less conspiracy-minded people, the fact that those songs needed so many samples would indicate that they were NOT sung by an impersonator. Because obviously, if they had an impersonator at their disposal, they would have gotten HIM to sing all of the classic MJ screams and yelps and hiccups. Or maybe they were so clever that they purposedly asked him NOT to, so they could then add samples, and fool people who think that the samples prove it's really MJ...

Or it could just be MJ...
 
I find it highly unbelievable that Michael would record these songs and record the vocal gasps at a different time.
 
All of those added MJ trademarks, from the hiccups to the yelps, from the "hee's" to the "aow's", were added to make the songs more complete, because the original vocals were incomplete, and MJ was no longer around to record the missing parts. Ad-libs are often the last thing recorded.
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this, this and this

I mean I can't really understand why this question is still being asked at the almost 2,000th page. This is the answer, how many times it requires to be written?

Asking the question several times does not mean suddenly you would get a new answer.
 
It's the matter of the fact that ad-libs are fabricated word-by-word, not that they're there. I know how posthumous songs are completed and that ad-libs from other songs are lifted, but these songs (well, the up-tempo ones) make a point to create their own ad-libs by using word fragments. It seems unnecessary and not authentic when ad-libs are created like that, as opposed to taking them from other songs as they were.
 
No matter how they were created they sound foreign to me. Not like Michael at all. I feel uncomfortable even listening to them trying to find if Michael is in there somewhere. Sometimes I hear an ad-lib or run that sounds like it may be him but then I cant tell for certain. That makes me very uncomfortable and I cant enjoy the songs at all. From the very first time I heard Breaking the news (when I went berserk here and on twitter) I was in tears. I couldn't believe my ears. Then Monster and all the Casico leaks came out and I tried to hear Michael I really did. They just give me a very creepy uncomfortable feeling when I hear them. I'm glad John Branca realizes they don't deserve to see the light of day. For whatever his reason. I thank him for that.

Whether Michael is in the songs or not IMO they were destroyed in the way they were produced and pasted together. It was a huge mistake to put them on the Michael album without conclusive proof. That alone caused so much pain and division in the fanbase that is still going on to this day. I don't support any hatred as I feel the estate was also hornswoggled. (I like that word):) The fact Eddie has completely disappeared from the face of this earth, music scene and ignores this issue makes it even more damning and suspicious to me. (Ive heard all the excuses they dont fly IMO) He very well may have had some MJ vocals recorded but what he did to what ever little he had is sacrilegious IMO. I hope one day we will know the facts of how these song were produced. How vocals tracks were layed down who sang what and what was pasted etc etc. But Im not going to hold my breath. My ears and heart are all I need to know they are not Kosher. I've have not seen any evidence to convince me otherwise in this thread .. not one iota. Every one is speculating too much for me. If you hear Michael then enjoy him. I'm not going to bash anyone who does believe_ I love them too. I just question how is all ? Like many others, I just cant.
 
You just perfectly summed how I feel about the Michael album qbee..honestly I could cry right now, but I've done enough of that today for other reasons lol..what you said are plain and simple my thoughts on it..sigh :unsure:
 
ivy said:
is this really a question?
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Read Elephantela's entertaining posts and you'll understand why people ask him/her such questions.

ivy said:
adlibs are generally what the musicians record last, as the songs weren't finished and as they wanted to make the songs more Michael style they added those - as admitted by Teddy Riley. It is no different than finishing or creating Tupac or Biggie songs from copy pastes of already released songs.
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Sorry but first Eddie claimed MJ wanted to release them and second you don't add breaths between words after the words have been sung. Did they add breaths between words in Tupac's or Biggie's songs. And anyway, why do we even speak of Tupac and Biggie here? So let's compare MJ's unfinished songs with the Cascio songs. Not a single unfinished MJ's song has added breaths between words except the Cascio ones.

ivy said:
For example the Biggie verse on Michael Jackson's Unbreakable is actually taken from an already released Shaq O'Neil song "Can't Stop The Reign". In other words they copied a part of Notorious Big's verse from "Can't Stop The Reign" and pasted it to Michael's "Unbreakable".
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Oh gosh. They did not fabricate that copy-pasted Biggie's part. Biggie sung it and then they copy pasted it as a tribute to Biggie who was duly credited. They didn't put words from different songs into Biggie's mouth to create new sentences. The sentences were sung by Biggie as yo hear them in Biggie's part.

ivy said:
According to your logic that verse and/or Unbreakable has to be a fake / fraud because they copied and pasted it why why? The reality is that Biggie was dead and he couldn't record a new verse for Michael so to add him to the songs they copied and pasted it. It's as legit Biggie vocals as it can be. It's a legit MJ song as it can be. The added copy - paste part doesn't take anything from the authenticity of that song.
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You compare Biggie's sung as it is sentences and inserted into MJ's song to MJ's fabricated sentences in the Cascio songs with small pieces of breaths and words and you compare those two as if they were the same and then you ask the doubters if they're logic.

First of all your comparison is not logic at all. Again, Biggie sung those lines as they are. MJ did never sing those lines you hear on the Cascio tracks. Tyhey were created from the scratch like "Take me away", except that this latter contain MJ's authentic vocals while the Cascio tracks contain a supposedly unusual MJ's voice.


ivy said:
they added adlibs or not or why they added them is totally irrelevant to the authenticity issue. My recommendation is stick to the lead vocals issue.
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Actually when you listen tot he a cappella version of Breaking News the ad libs are not only added, but completely fabricated. Three words in the same sentence come from three different recordings not to mention that one of the voices sounds different. Everyone can hear that.

kreen said:
My mind is blown that this question can still be asked after 20 000 pages on the subject. It's like somebody studying to convert to Christianity and then going, right before Baptism, "wait a second, so who is this Jesus guy again?"
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Well, again, read elephantela's posts and you'll see that he/she talks about things we've already discussed and answered. Your posts on the other hand don't seem to show you even read what people were saying inhere during those 20 000 pages. It's like someone studying to convert to Christianity and saying that Jesus was a Christian and denying that he was a Jew.

ivy said:
All of those added MJ trademarks, from the hiccups to the yelps, from the "hee's" to the "aow's", were added to make the songs more complete, because the original vocals were incomplete, and MJ was no longer around to record the missing parts. Ad-libs are often the last thing recorded.
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According to Eddie MJ was ready to release them. Also, what kind of logic is this? Michael sung without hiccups, hee hees, breaths, and after they made him do it? The issue is not only the ad libs, but throughout the entire songs. The yelps on the other hand sound so exaggerated that it makes think of Jason Malachi's methoid of singing. If you listen to JM's songhs you'll hear exactly the same kind of exaggerated yelps. Too many coincidences, too many discrepancies. Impossible to ignore them unless like elephantela you want to live in denial.

ivy said:
Also note that some of the songs DON'T feature those sampled MJ trademarks : All I Need, for instance, has none. And doubters use the ABSENCE of classic MJ'isms on that song to claim that THAT one is fake. So the Cascios can't win with doubters : if there are MJ trademarks on the track, either Malachi did them to fool the listener, or Eddie added them for the same reason. And if there are no MJ'isms, then it proves it's not MJ. So basically doubters can use everything and its complete opposite to prove their point...
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You didn't get it. The MJ trademarks were added because they were absent only on the Cascio songs. Name one MJ's post Motown song either without MJ's trademark or without his usual timbre that contains copy-pasted bits of dah, hee hee or other trademarks, or simply where a full sentence was not sung andf completely fabricated from the words from previous recordings. You won't be able. And this has noithing to do with teh doubters' opinion, but with the Cascio fabrication. That's why those songs cannot win. No trace of these songs was shown to the fans despite teh controversy. So how can so many things be ignored and accepted by the believers? I just don't get how laxist the believers are when it comes to their idol.

ivy said:
By the way, to less conspiracy-minded people, the fact that those songs needed so many samples would indicate that they were NOT sung by an impersonator. Because obviously, if they had an impersonator at their disposal, they would have gotten HIM to sing all of the classic MJ screams and yelps and hiccups. Or maybe they were so clever that they purposedly asked him NOT to, so they could then add samples, and fool people who think that the samples prove it's really MJ...
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But the less cosnpiracy-minded peopel as you label them DO believe that the songs were entirely sung by an impersonator due to the differetn voice timbre than MJ's. There are only tiny parts where they added here and there MJ's words which actually matched the lyrics of the songs. Hence fabrication of the song. Why using an impersonator to sing the parts when you can add words that have already been sung by MJ himself?

ivy said:
Or it could just be MJ...
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With so many discrepancies, speculation, excuses and unanswered questions, you may call R2D2's voice from Star Wars also Michael Jackson's voice and find thousands of excuses why MJ sounds like that. Bleep, tiiiuoooo, bliip beep.

ivy said:
this, this and this
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This comment sounds more like a method of self brainwashing than showing that you actually read what the doubters are trying to say and why the doubters raise the red flag. The hiccups, breaths and other MJ's trademarks have been added inbetween words as in no other MJ's unfinished song. Many MJ songs were not finsihed, yet none of them have those copy-pasted trademarks afterwards because MJ sung them spontaneously.

I am just appalled that MJ's fans (believers) do not find it strange that the supposed MJ on the Cascio songs not only doesn't sound the same as the usual MJ, but also that they find it completely normal that the supposed MJ on those songhs first sung without his trademarks and then that they had to add them afterwards.

Also, how is it possible to compare copy-pasted fully sung ad libs to bits of words put together to create a new sentence that MJ never actually sang and say that it is the same thing?

How come that only the Cascio songs have those particularities and no other MJ's unfinished song?

ivy said:
I mean I can't really understand why this question is still being asked at the almost 2,000th page. This is the answer, how many times it requires to be written?
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Did you read elephantela's posts? He/she seems to have just discovered America with his/her comments. He/she lives in 1492 while we're in 2012 now. So that comment of yours, you can direct it to elephantela.

ivy said:
Asking the question several times does not mean suddenly you would get a new answer.
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The question is not asked several times to the same person. If the question is asked several times it is because there are more than one person in this thread. There might be someone who will come up with an answer. So, yes, asking the question several times is better than put it under the rug and forget about it and blindly and stubbornly claim that MJ sings on those tracks without answering the posed question.
 
Look like a few don't remember how there was a list of Mj fan clubs who didn't want those Cascio tracks on Michael album since day one.

Since day one many, so many fans, Mj family, producers, singers, etc... found JASON MALACHI on first snippets of Breaking, Monster or Keep your head up.

But right now there is no doubt with thousand of audio comparisons, absence of proof from Eddie, absence of Porte from public image (yeah i think Dileo knew the truth and supported the lie with Friedman only for money because he was Porte's manager), absence of Jason and Eddie on news or in public, Estate saying they will not include more Cascios....

Looks like many didn't hear audio comparasion.... rare.

Some still here and we still waiting for audio comparisions that shows us MJ sung on those disgusting and prefabricated tracks with JASON voice.

Jason dissapeared from the public image because everybody knows it's him singing. He will never release the album he wanted to release because he sung on Michael album and everybody knows it. He will never release a new work because there will be more comparisions and he prefer to stay away from public expendind the money he received from the Cascio's sessions.

That's my view of all this madness situation and it'll never change.

Now, you can continue...
 
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mjslovelyone88 said:
you just perfectly summed how i feel about the michael album qbee..honestly i could cry right now, but i've done enough of that today for other reasons lol..what you said are plain and simple my thoughts on it..sigh :unsure:
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class action - for emotional distress !
 
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Snow White luvs Peter Pan said:
I don't understand why some like to live in denial if we can hear in those tracks they pasted fragments from previous well known songs. If people like those Cascio tracks it's their choice but arguing it's Michael "singing" just because they like them and not offering futher proves, it's just unacceptable.

That little baby girl KNOWS! :thumbs_up: :wub:
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CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT - nothing else will help you.
 
jesta said:
it's the matter of the fact that ad-libs are fabricated word-by-word, not that they're there. I know how posthumous songs are completed and that ad-libs from other songs are lifted, but these songs (well, the up-tempo ones) make a point to create their own ad-libs by using word fragments. It seems unnecessary and not authentic when ad-libs are created like that, as opposed to taking them from other songs as they were.
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class action, class action, class action
 
elapentela said:
class action - for emotional distress !
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elapentela said:
class action, class action, class action
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elapentela said:
CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT - nothing else will help you.
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Make an appointment at Clear Hearing for a hearing evaluation to determine if Lyric is right for you
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nothing else will help you. :laugh:
 
elapentela said:
class action, class action, class action
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Thanks for your incredible contributions to this debate. I am honoured that despite not having enough time to care or determine whether it is Michael on the songs, you chose to spend some of your valuable time with us on this precious Sunday afternoon. I salute you, sir.
 
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