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Michael - The Great Album Debate

lucilla said:
Kreen, you just inaugurated the page 1666...
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Argh, got this amazing comparison on around 20 seconds, but I can't post it here. It's undeniable the same person when you hear this - even more "similar" than ever.
 
Pentum said:
Argh, got this amazing comparison on around 20 seconds, but I can't post it here. It's undeniable the same person when you hear this - even more "similar" than ever.
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One thing is sufficient to hear the oddest supposed MJ ever: the word "wai'ing" in STAY. Neither the voice timbre nor the accent is his.
 
@ Chamife, I don't appreciate your hamster-in-a-cup-cake present to me.
@ Arklove, I don't appreciate you making fun of Chamife's present to me.
@ Arklove & Love is Magical tandem, I don't appreciate you making fun of Kreen.
We did not come here with the intention of being hostile to you, so don't be hostile to us.
 
kreen said:
Yes, just like a ton of people, I was initially surprised by the song "Breaking News" : I was put off by the use of the third person in the lyrics, the vocals sounded overprocessed, and the initial 30-second sample, because it ended with a classic MJ "aooow", had led me to expect a classic MJ vocal. So my initial, emotional reaction was, "wait, this isn't MJ", and that reaction was obviously totally influenced by all of that talk from the Jacksons and those articles from Friedman regarding the accusation that the songs were fake. And what didn't help me -- and didn't help anyone actually -- was that the first thing I did was come on this forum and others, where everybody would get everybody else angry and over-excited and outraged about "fraud" and "those damn Cascios" and "that damn Teddy Riley".

The whole thing was a classic, textbook example of mass over-reaction based on first impressions, on disappointment ("Breaking News" was just not what we wanted), and on the hyperspeed with which Internet allows us to basically speak before we think things through.

And then, of course, my emotion subsided, and I realized the hoax theory made no sense. It is impossible. The Cascios could not have come up with such a fraud, and executed it, and kept everyone quiet, and fooled everybody. The official story explained everything much more clearly. And with every passing month, when it became obvious nobody was suing anybody, and the Jacksons would talk the talk but never walk the walk, and the Estate included "Monster" in the Immortal show, and Malachi was still working 9 to 5 as a security guard, and everything else : well it became clear the songs are authentic.

I keep coming back here and debating this for two reasons : first, because I think I have something to contribute to this debate, and second, because it's a shame that the anti-Cascio people keep trying to convince other MJ fans to reject 12 songs that MJ sang. In other words, if I was a new fan and came on this forum now, I might be led by the anti-Cascio camp to think those 12 songs are fake, and then I'd miss out on 12 important recordings, and maybe even on the whole Michael album. And that would be a shame, and silly.
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Aside everything that is been discussed here, do you believe that the remaining Cascio songs should be released in a future MJ project, if there is any that is?
 
teli-mj said:
Aside everything that is been discussed here, do you believe that the remaining Cascio songs should be released in a future MJ project, if there is any that is?
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Let me co-answer :). For me it's possible, but not in the same way they released them on "Michael". With complete, (and provable) transparency how they came to being, from A-Z, that's needed more than ever, I think that's the only way it can be done. And of course, they better sound like Michael to everybody!
 
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Garden said:
@ Chamife, I don't appreciate your hamster-in-a-cup-cake present to me.
@ Arklove, I don't appreciate you making fun of Chamife's present to me.
@ Arklove & Love is Magical tandem, I don't appreciate you making fun of Kreen.
We did not come here with the intention of being hostile to you, so don't be hostile to us.
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I thought it was a funny picture (you said you adore hamsters so I went looking for a funny pic of a hamster) and it wasn't meant to be mean or anything...:(. Ok, apologies for it if it made you feel offended.

I have nothing to gain by being hostile, so why would I do that? The more people join this debate, the better. That's how I feel.

This discussion is what it is, a discussion (conversation)..not an attack on people. Attacks don't contribute a thing.
 
I wasn't sure for a long time what to think. When the Estate came with that statement I doubted again. All these big names, they surely knew Michael's voice? And a professional analysis? That was also quite impressive. And Teddy Riley? Teddy loved Michael: "It's him, it is Michael Jackson" and he said it with so much conviction. And I doubted again....until I read what other people thought of the voice and the songs (tweets, blogs and such, which I came across in my search for more info) and they felt the same as me. I agreed with what they said about the typical Michael traits that weren't there and other things that were missing and more and more I felt a connection with these people. And then the comparisons...I think that did it for me.

So it's not that I disregarded everything from The Estate, Teddy Riley...no, on the contrary. I wanted the truth and that's all I ever cared about. I doubted and doubted for a long time and took everything in consideration. I laid it carefully on a scale and came to my own personal conclusion.
 
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Pentum said:
Argh, got this amazing comparison on around 20 seconds, but I can't post it here. It's undeniable the same person when you hear this - even more "similar" than ever.
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You should post the one you showed me :p
 
Chamife said:
I thought it was a funny picture (you said you adore hamsters so I went looking for a funny pic of a hamster) and it wasn't meant to be mean or anything...:(. Ok, apologies for it if it made you feel offended. I have nothing to gain by being hostile, so why would I do that? The more people join this debate, the better. That's how I feel. This discussion is what it is, a discussion (conversation)..not an attack on people. Attacks don't contribute a thing.
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Thank you Chamife ... My first impression was being a little bit choqued, but you did not know that I love animals to pieces (but not literaly lol). It was such a horrible sight, that poor hamster in the cup...
 
Garden said:
Thank you Chamife ... My first impression was being a little bit choqued, but you did not know that I love animals to pieces (but not literaly lol). It was such a horrible sight, that poor hamster in the cup...
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Lol, you were shocked, I thought it was funny. We're all different.

When we have a third little collision, I'll buy you a drink..:D (3x is scheepsrecht)
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
One thing is sufficient to hear the oddest supposed MJ ever: the word "wai'ing" in STAY. Neither the voice timbre nor the accent is his.
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I don't know, it's not the first time Michael ommits characters in a word... maybe there's a reason. Pronouncing the t makes the duration of the word a tiny little bit longer and it can be that a shorter duration was wanted for making the line more fluent... It would not surprise me. Didn't Michael sing "Heal The Worl"? (wirl lol) On other ocasions I clearly heard him pronounce "world"... @ Chamife : excellent idea! I'ld offer you a beautiful smiley now but I'm on phone modus and it doesn't work... Op voorhand al cheers op onze goede verstandhouding :)!
 
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@Garden...I'm confused...you don't appreciate Chamife's present, but you also don't appreciate my making fun of it? And where did I even make fun it? This is a little silly lol ..and I could have acted hostile at kreen's psychoanalyzing because kreen's does that consistently and I find it slightly offensive, but I turned into a joke instead...that's what I do, I turn potential arguments into jokes.
 
Garden;3608306 said:
@ Chamife, I don't appreciate your hamster-in-a-cup-cake present to me.
@ Arklove, I don't appreciate you making fun of Chamife's present to me.
@ Arklove & Love is Magical tandem, I don't appreciate you making fun of Kreen.
We did not come here with the intention of being hostile to you, so don't be hostile to us.
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I don’t know if this is your first time in this thread but we always make little jokes here, sometimes it helps to cut some heavy atmosphere in the debate :) Sorry if you got offended but you can’t ask other people to stop having their good sense of humor.
 
@ Arklove @ Lucilla I know the thread very well, that's not my problem (or maybe it is lol). Problem is : not humor itself but the subject (animal baked in cupcake). Now you can say "don't you like fried chicken, fish etc. that's also an animal"... but the context is totally different. And I doubt that anyone would post such a thing in answer to a post from someone who has +/- the same opinions ("camp") as the poster, f.i. I don't see you sending something like that to Chamife, to Bumper, to Love is Magical etc...
 
Garden said:
@ Arklove @ Lucilla I know the thread very well, that's not my problem (or maybe it is lol). Problem is : not humor itself but the subject (animal baked in cupcake). Now you can say "don't you like fried chicken, fish etc. that's also an animal"... but the context is totally different. And I doubt that anyone would post such a thing in answer to a post from someone who has +/- the same opinions ("camp") as the poster, f.i. I don't see you sending something like that to Chamife, to Bumper, to Love is Magical etc...
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You did see that Chamife sent a picture of a zombie-hand-crawling-out-of-the-earth cupcake to Love is magical? I really think you just misinterpreted what was only meant to be a funny picture and are seeing an anti-believer hostility that really was not there, Garden. From what Chamife explained, it could have been posted in response to anyone, you were just the one who commented on the hamster picture she posted before. Back on topic. Yeah, I saw that lip-synched Hydraulix performance a few days ago and do not remember seeing it before (though the performance is obviously old). Wonder who posted it.
 
Sorry if my posts appear without the appropriate spaces between different paragraphs. Am typing this on my phone and for some reason the spaces I see when I type the message are gone when I post it.
 
SoCav said:
Sorry if my posts appear without the appropriate spaces between different paragraphs. Am typing this on my phone and for some reason the spaces I see when I type the message are gone when I post it.
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Samethinghappenstomeonmyphone :D
 
SoCav said:
You did see that Chamife sent a picture of a zombie-hand-crawling-out-of-the-earth cupcake to Love is magical? I really think you just misinterpreted what was only meant to be a funny picture and are seeing an anti-believer hostility that really was not there, Garden. From what Chamife explained, it could have been posted in response to anyone, you were just the one who commented on the hamster picture she posted before. Back on topic.
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OK Socav, it is allright, no problem with Chamife, we talked and it is allright. I would like not to go on about it... why so many people want to comment, while it was something between Chamife and me? (And de zombie-hand was in another context.) Why so much comments when I simply say I don't appreciate that kind of joke? Maybe you guys all feel offended? Then I apologize, that was not my intention, just wanted to let you know how I felt about the cupcake picture, not to offend you. @ Chamife :I appreciate very much the way you talked to me when you learned I am sensible to that kind of jokes. Wow, someone please give a nice little joke, it's getting too serious in here :)! edit @ Socav: the same here, no spaces between paragraphs, in phone modus.
 
I'm sorry I doublepost, but on phone modus it's not easy. Realize I didn't say much about the album yet. To get myself back on track of the thread ;). I want to tell you what are my favs on "Michael" :) 1. Behind The Mask 2. Much too soon 3. Hold My Hand 4. Monster 5. Best Of Joy 6. Another Day 7. The Way You Love Me 8. Hollywood Tonight 9. Breaking The News 10. Hold Your Head Up
 
Bhahaha... same thing with my phone... :nono:

My favorite songs from the Michael album are Best of Joy and Much Too Soon.
 
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Garden said:
OK Socav, it is allright, no problem with Chamife, we talked and it is allright. I would like not to go on about it... why so many people want to comment, while it was something between Chamife and me? (And de zombie-hand was in another context.) Why so much comments when I simply say I don't appreciate that kind of joke? Maybe you guys all feel offended? Then I apologize, that was not my intention, just wanted to let you know how I felt about the cupcake picture, not to offend you. @ Chamife :I appreciate very much the way you talked to me when you learned I am sensible to that kind of jokes. Wow, someone please give a nice little joke, it's getting too serious in here :)! edit @ Socav: the same here, no spaces between paragraphs, in phone modus.
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I was not offended, no worries. :) The only reason I responded was because to me it seemed like you perceived this misunderstanding as a doubter vs believer thing (even after Chamife's explanation). Apologies if I misunderstood your posts!
 
i haven't post much here but thought i'd share this.
when BN first came out i was bussy with college and wasn't much online. the info i got was from MJFC where at the time was the only place i lurked for info and posted when i had time. before BN there was NO debates about the songs being faked. i listend to the song and actually LIKED it. but something was OFF. i'm tone-deaf and new to MJs voice, but the fact that he says his name in the song was odd to me. but as a fairly new fan who was i to criticize? i posted about liking it on FB and got nasty comment about it being fake.

i got on forums to see what was going on. both sids had strong arguments. i was confused. i told myself Soney wouldn't, Casico wouln't and the estate wouldn't! after listening more to MJ these songs sounds odder. are they fake? IDK! but i do believe MJ's voice (if it's his) is tampered with one way or another.
 
Pentum said:
^ It's KEEP your head up... not HOLD your head up...
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:))) of course! Funny but I keep on hearing a song in my head from another singer, I don't know why... always "hold your head up woman, hold your head up..." But did you know... it is "Woman's Day" today :)! @ all women and girls on here : happy Woman's Day !!! @ Maral, I so remember that time...
 
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Some people have asked me whether I hear MJ on those tracks now, and I absolutely do : it's obviously MJ. It's all psychological : if the three Cascio tracks had come out on Invincible, nobody would be claiming it's not MJ singing. Which is not to say people would not be complaining about the quality of the vocals, which is a different issue. Are the vocals MJ's? Yes. Are they good MJ vocals? Not really, altough it depends a bit on the song.
 
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