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Michael - The Great Album Debate

Of course, it was Michael's dream to work with Eddie (who? lol) and James Porte (who?).

The best lyrics writers ever.
 
ADKIc3mAnX said:
But they are so I guess he did for those songs.

"Innocent until proven guilty" would be perfect right now.
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As far as I'm concerned, the fact that I, and many others hear Jason Malachi all over the songs is enough for me to say guilty.
 
ADKIc3mAnX said:
I think that Michael Jackson promised Eddie to record songs with him in the future when he was a kid.


It's just something I can picture MJ saying to him.
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Me too.

But I can't picture him recording a whole album of 12 songs on which he doesn't sound like himself after more than 4 decades of singing experience.
 
One thing I'm afraid of if how about if proof is shown in the future what would happen ?

I think the first thing we'll hear is

Doubter: "That's not MJ that's Frank with a wig".
 
ADKIc3mAnX said:
One thing I'm afraid of if how about if proof is shown in the future what would happen ?

I think the first thing we'll hear is

Doubter: "That's not MJ that's Frank with a wig".
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A relief. But don't think that you'll necessarily like the truth. You seem too much optimistic about them. We already know that there was a huge amount of copy pastes.
 
ADKIc3mAnX said:
Maybe it will be the other way around and you will not accept the truth.
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Other way round than what? That there are no copy pastes? Are you kidding?

The truth is I don't hear Michael. If they prove it is Michael, I will still not hear Michael, however I will acknowledge that Michael is the singer if they prove it. I see nothing wrong with that. And I will still find the lyrics poor. The snort on Breking News unexcusable for not editing it out, etc.
 
Thoughts on Monster remix vocals:

* Some vocals seem to be of different takes i.e. "He's dragging you round like a Monster", "He be waiting with his Cam-ra (as opposed to "Cam-er-a") on focus" and "Why you doggin' me?" instead of "Why you hauntin' me?".

* The smoothed vibrato sounds much more like they took the vocal JUST BEFORE the vibrato and stretched that out, i.e. "Zig-Zaaaaaaa" as opposed to "Zig-Zag-g-g-g".

It's obvious that - if this single had been released - this remix and a possible edit of the album version would contain these new vocals to please the doubters. But what you have here is the equivalent of air-brushing vocals.

And with that off my chest, I sleep! Peace, yo!
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
Other way round than what? That there are no copy pastes? Are you kidding?

The truth is I don't hear Michael. If they prove it is Michael, I will still not hear Michael, however I will acknowledge that Michael is the singer if they prove it. I see nothing wrong with that. And I will still find the lyrics poor. The snort on Breking News unexcusable for not editing it out, etc.
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That the song is sung by Michael Jackson something that many doubters don't want to accept.
 
Pentum said:
If someone has the "raw demos", it's Eddie only. Not the Estate and Sony. They have the "pre-mixes" which were in that hacked Sony server.
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Pentum, thank you for acknowledging the hacks and leaks are pre-mixes. Perhaps now Stella can accept it.

However let's consider Estate and Sony's access to raw demos for a minute.

During Murray trial and defense's requests for TII footage, we have learned that those are under lock and key at Sony. Sony hired lawyers and fought tooth and nail to not give access to them. They didn't even want to bring them to court to show it judge. Judge had to travel to the Sony studios. In the end they only agreed to show them at their own premises, with their own security, technicians and lawyers present and footed all the expenses. They did this much protection for something they called future anniversary editions (which means limited new material).

Also refer to Cirque production journal day 2 with Greg Phillinganes and Kevin Antunes. In that video Greg talks about Kevin's access to Michael's masters and says that Cirque has built a vault in Kevin's house and Kevin transfers the masters in a briefcase handcuffed to himself and doesn't allow anyone access to them. Again we can see that such items are kept under lock and key. It's important to note that what Kevin had access to was, already released material.

Both examples shows us that any Michael Jackson originals, masters, raw vocals, acapellas etc. - probably including but not limited to Cascio songs - are kept under lock and key at a physical location and not necessarily on a hackable online server.
 
ADKIc3mAnX said:
That the song is sung by Michael Jackson something that many doubters don't want to accept.
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Even if MJ came himself to tell me that he sang those songs I'd tell him "look, you don't sound yourself, the lyrics suck big time, the snort is disturbing, what's wrong with your vibrato all of sudden, and why did you let Eddie pushing the buttons while you were singing, he screwed it up?"
 
Jesta said:
Thoughts on Monster remix vocals:

* Some vocals seem to be of different takes i.e. "He's dragging you round like a Monster", "He be waiting with his Cam-ra (as opposed to "Cam-er-a") on focus" and "Why you doggin' me?" instead of "Why you hauntin' me?".

* The smoothed vibrato sounds much more like they took the vocal JUST BEFORE the vibrato and stretched that out, i.e. "Zig-Zaaaaaaa" as opposed to "Zig-Zag-g-g-g".

It's obvious that - if this single had been released - this remix and a possible edit of the album version would contain these new vocals to please the doubters. But what you have here is the equivalent of air-brushing vocals.

And with that off my chest, I sleep! Peace, yo!
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That remix doesn't even sound Michael. It sounds alien.
 
BUMPER SNIPPET said:
Even if MJ came himself to tell me that he sang those songs I'd tell him "look, you don't sound yourself, the lyrics suck big time, the snort is disturbing, what's wrong with your vibrato all of sudden, and why did you let Eddie pushing the buttons while you were singing, he screwed it up?"
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He always got that kind of treatment he might be use to people hating on his art.

I'm glad this did not happen during his lifetime so he wouldn't have to see how many fans are not acepting/appreciating his work.
 
ADKIc3mAnX said:
He always got that kind of treatment he might be use to people hating on his art.

I'm glad this did not happen during his lifetime so he wouldn't have to see how many fans are not acepting/appreciating his work.
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His work?? A posthumous release with the atrocious amount of copy/paste is not MJ's work...Once that kind of hack job is done on an artist's barely completed, hell, barely even started work, it becomes something else entirely...That's the issue you don't seem to be grasping, although our protests about this are found since the beginning and all throughout this thread.

Even Hollywood Tonight, although no doubt Michael's voice, is someone else's work, ie: Teddy's Riley's rewritten bridge to make the song more 'positive' ...Teddy took liberties he shouldn't have...Michael had a great bridge written and it should have been used..
 
It's not his work.

Even if there were small portions of MJ hidden behind the imposter vocals, it would still have had to been processed to beyond recognition in order to sound the way it does. No matter how I look at it, I cannot possibly consider the Cascio tracks to be "his work".

EDIT: You beat me to it, Arklove :D
 
Arklove said:
His work?? A posthumous release with the atrocious amount of copy/paste is not MJ's work...Once that kind of hack job is done on an artist's barely completed, hell, barely even started work, it becomes something else entirely...That's the issue you don't seem to be grasping, although our protests about this are found since the beginning and all throughout this thread.

Even Hollywood Tonight, although no doubt Michael's voice, is someone else's work, ie: Teddy's Riley's rewritten bridge to make the song more 'positive' ...Teddy took liberties he shouldn't have...Michael had a great bridge written and it should have been used..
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I agree with you on the Hollywood Tonight part that got me pissed off when I heard it because it was not Michael's vision.

But it's still his vocals just put together by producers.

By work I mean his vocals.
 
André89;3579126 said:
It's not his work.

Even if there were small portions of MJ hidden behind the imposter vocals, it would still have had to been processed to beyond recognition in order to sound the way it does. No matter how I look at it, I cannot possibly consider the Cascio tracks to be "his work".

EDIT: You beat me to it, Arklove :D
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Are you 100% sure it's not MJ ?
 
ADKIc3mAnX said:
I agree with you on the Hollywood Tonight part that got me pissed off when I heard it because it was not Michael's vision.

But it's still his vocals just put together by producers.

By work I mean his vocals.
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Ok...HIS vocals...First of all, there is no proof that these are his vocals either way..We know that...

Vocals put together by OTHERS..meaning OTHER'S work..Let's assume these are Michael's vocals...As Andre said, even if Michael is in there somewhere, the amount of processing that had to be done in order to make it releasable, becomes something else entirely...Becomes a voice beyond recognition by his own fans, his family, his producers...I know you think it's Michael singing, that's fine, I won't berate you for your opinion on that...But you cannot tell me you're oblivious to the fact that these vocals do not sound like Michael Jackson as we know him...If they did, then this thread wouldn't exist and this controversy would STILL not be happening a year later...I have never, EVER heard a single Michael Jackson song that I didn't instantly recognize him..Ever...Now we have 12??? Come on...

Doubters AND believers alike would be able to pin point specific vocals and certain unique characteristics that can compare with previously released MJ songs...That hasn't happened, and will never happen...

As Bumper said earlier, even if Michael himself said these are him singing, I still wouldn't hear Michael..I'd still think the lyrics are poor, I'd still think the composition and overall feel of the songs are sub par. I wouldn't have a problem telling Michael that at all..
 
ADKIc3mAnX said:
He always got that kind of treatment he might be use to people hating on his art.I'm glad this did not happen during his lifetime so he wouldn't have to see how many fans are not acepting/appreciating his work.
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Are you calling me a hater now?This guilt triping doesn't work. I don't understand why you have no problem with people calling Invincible (arguably Michael's most adventurous album - an album Michael himself called ahead of its time) boring, but have problem with people disliking the Cascio tracks. Like Arky and Bumper, I have no problem in telling Michael the three songs on Michael are mediocre and way below his level.
 
With regards to whether the leaked early versions are earlier mixes or demos, I believe they are what Eddie submitted. Call them demos or whatever. We know they aren't the versions that Riley, Stewart, Bacharach worked on because of the dates. It has been suggested that they are earlier mixes, done by someone else in between leaving Eddie and getting to the aforementioned producers. I am not aware of any evidence to support this and those earlier mixes are incredibly amateur and the production sounds remarkably similar to Eddie's other production work. So until it is proven that they are the work of someone in between, I will refer to them as demos.
 
On another matter. The female Spanish voice over at the beginning of Burn 2Nite. The female Spanish voice over at the beginning of Mamacita. Same person? Thoughts?
 
love is magical said:
Are you calling me a hater now?This guilt triping doesn't work. I don't understand why you have no problem with people calling Invincible (arguably Michael's most adventurous album - an album Michael himself called ahead of its time) boring, but have problem with people disliking the Cascio tracks. Like Arky and Bumper, I have no problem in telling Michael the three songs on Michael are mediocre and way below his level.
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First of all I never said that Invincible is boring you might wanna go back and read those posts again.

And can you please show me where I called you a hater ?

I see
"He always got that kind of treatment he might be use to people hating on his art.

I'm glad this did not happen during his lifetime so he wouldn't have to see how many fans are not acepting/appreciating his work."
 
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