Michael - The Great Album Debate

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

I feel I've lost the dancing figure that I attained for my tribute show due to comfort eating :( I have to use "Michael Jackson: The Experience" for Wii and Kinect to get myself back in shape!!!

... I'll leave now, sorry for bothering you all with my personal life *Tips hat*

Lol... good luck with the rehearsals... :yes:
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

Yeah, this thread is really slowing down.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

Oh boy...

So, they renamed this sub-forum from "The Conspiracy" to "The Controversy". But, they made this a member-access only?

Now, the hoax theory is not conspiracy, but controversy.

I feel I won a battle but lost a war. :no:
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

Interesting....Member-access only...Yet, Sam doesn't have access...again....He's a member, is he not? What's up with that?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

Oh boy...

So, they renamed this sub-forum from "The Conspiracy" to "The Controversy". But, they made this a member-access only?

Now, the hoax theory is not conspiracy, but controversy.

I feel I won a battle but lost a war. :no:

And if you look at the title of the thread it would seem that the hoax theory is now a controversy but this is still a conspiracy.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

And if you look at the title of the thread it would seem that the hoax theory is now a controversy but this is still a conspiracy.

Lol... so we are conspiracy theorists talking about a conspiracy in a controversy subforum.

Meanwhile, the hoax theroy becomes a controversy. :doh:
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

Lol... so we are conspiracy theorists talking about a conspiracy in a controversy subforum.

Meanwhile, the hoax theroy becomes a controversy. :doh:

You should have just left it the way it was, now look what you've got. :doh:
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

You know what? I couldn't care less what it's called...I know what I believe and you can call me what you please...
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

You should have just left it the way it was, now look what you've got. :doh:

If I only knew they are really this desparate to silent this vocal authenticity talk....

Why Sam is blocked? By making it members-only, people who get banned, such as Pentum are now kept out.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

How did making it open to whole public worked for Pentum and Kapital?

at least they can see the discussion when they come to MJJC as visitor.

now, they are completely cut out. how about the people who got banned due to the 2000 watts rule change outrage. how about the people who got temporary banned.

first, i fail to see how this vocal authenticity talk falls into the hoax theory sub-forum.

second, i fail to see how this thread needs to be members' only discussion.

third, i fail to understand the reason Sam is now blocked in this section as well.

i understand how the multi-media sub-forum needs to be limited from the general public, but this thread?

also, why the music & dance thread is also hidden? i don't understand what's going on with all these changes.

if i'm a visitor, the first place I want to go is the music & dance sub-forum. why would a casual fan wants to hear all those MJ Estate legal updates, mtv award and rule changes?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

you didn't understand my question correctly let me rephrase

how did having this thread open to whole public to see worked when the links were posted?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Conspiracy)

Seriously, why this thread has always been under such scrutiny and singled out? In my humble opinion, this thread is problably one of the most intriguing and thought-stiulating threads in this whole entire forum. If not, people like you, Ivy, would not be so actively participating in it.

Yes, sometimes, we go off-topic, we have silly talks, we lose our tempers. Overall, we've had great discussions. We haven't managed to change either side. But, we did get people thinking.

Many people, including Gaz, stereotype all of us. We are perceived as the trouble-makers who divide this community. This cannot be farther away from the truth. You have no idea how many friendships have developed from this thread. I'm not just talking about me, Arklove, Sam and Bumper. I maintain discussions with "believers" too outside of this thread. They know who they are.

Deep down, we are all fans of Michael Jackson. We don't hate each other. But, you know what really is frustrating? What really is frustrating is being compared to children who like to argue, being compared to some nutty conspiracy theorists.

Take a look to what this place has become. The constant bannings and limiting access. There is so little room for open discussions.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

you didn't understand my question correctly let me rephrase

how did having this thread open to whole public to see worked when the links were posted?

what? i'm sorry. i still cannot comprehend your question.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

All this fuss just because of one thread.

KYHU thread --closed.
Monster thread --closed.
Breaking News thread --closed.
Album debate thread refused to be stuck, renamed several times, moved to a subforum, again renamed under "conspiracy thread" and now the subforum renamed as Controversy subforum. On top of that it is invisible to public as if it should be silenced.

It appears clear that everything is done to get rid of this thread, even vote among staff was organized for its suppression, but apparntly it was voted out not to suppress it.

I just wonder what is the aim of this MJJC Forum? To forget what happened with MJ's first posthumous album?
Even as a believer that Cascio tracks are genuine, is it ok to accept the butchering of MJ's voice with a bunch of audio snippets exaggeratingly copy-pasted of breaths, etc? Is it OK to silence that FACT and hide it from the general public?

beat me, hate me, you can never break me
will me, thrill me, you can never kill me
chew me, move me, everybody do me
kick me, hike me, don't you black or white me

all I wanna say is that
they don't really care about us
all I wanna say is that
they don't really care about us

tell me what has become of my thread
i have an album with three questionable songs
i am the victiom of SONY brutality, now.
i'm tired of being the victim of hate,
you're rapin' me of my pride
of for god's sake
i look to heaven to fulfill its prophecy....
set me free

skinhead, deadhead, everybody gone bad
trepidation, speculation, everybody fabrication
in the studio, on the news, everybody dog food
poor voice, poor proof, throw the brother in shame

all i wanna say is that
they don't really care about us
all i wanna say is that
they don't really care about us

tell me what has become of my rights
am i invisible cause you ignore me?
your proclamation promised me free liberty, now.
i'm tired of being the victim of shame
they're throwing me in a class with a bad name
i can't believe this is the community to which i belong.
you know i really do hate to say
the rule-makers don't wanna say
but if SONY wasn't dictatin',
we would't have this on and on.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Just a question. Why is it so difficult to call this thread as it should be called instead of perverting its name? This thread should be called "The Cascio tracks -authenticity debate,reflexion and opinion", and it certainly does not belong to a murky subforum. As long as it is not solved it is a current event forum!
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I know this is a subject people don't like to discuss but I thought I'd bring it up as it seems it could be a likely scenario to me. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Michael Jackson was known to struggle with addiction problems to pharmaceuticals, especially from the mid-nineties on, for a variety of reasons.

Now, I'm not saying Michael was intoxicated when he performed these. Not at all. We all know he sounded just fine while he was a little buzzed. We can see that from the Deposition video. He sounds just fine.

But listen to the Cascio's on the Oprah video. They say they didn't see Michael use any drugs!!! That means that while he was staying at their house he very very well could have been detoxing there and not being surrounded by his normal 'shadowy entourage'.

My point with this is, I've seen what it looks like when a person is detoxing from pharmaceuticals, even common medications like Klonopin. One side-effect that is very very common is severe shakiness and sometimes even seizures. I have no doubt that Michael must have had to go through something similar to this unless he never stopped using drugs ever, which I doubt. We know Michael was strong willed. I don't think he was always a chemically dependent person. He obviously was resting at the Cascio residence for a reason(Sober Support).

The Cascio family themselves say that Michael stayed there for a long period of time. Unless the ENTIRE family is lying. Mrs. Cascio says Michael slept in her house. He ate meals there. Is she lying, too, along with Eddie?

That's all for now. :)

Edit: By the way, Michael Jackson was on prescription drugs in 1992-1993, 2002-2005, and 2009, that we know of. He always sounded like his normal self while he was prescribed to drugs. But if you've been on pharmaceuticals for 15 years and suddenly you decide you don't want to take them anymore, you're going to be in for one hell of a ride.
 
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At the end of the day, the question is, is this an album Michael would be comfortable with? The obvious answer is, no. While I do think it's a great album, and I enjoy it more out of only one of his album releases, the most bothersome thing is, it's not what Michael would do. I really wish he were still here to grace these songs and put the final touches on them like he would normally do (regarding the 3 Cascio recordings, authenticity aside). Sadly, it can't be that way, that's what hurts so much, I love this record, but I think with all that's transpired, it's really hard getting past the fact that he's no longer here to work this stuff out himself. I don't blame The Estate, and I don't blame Sony, because only Michael would know himself more than any other individual, I just wish this could have been released in a more happier setting, so to speak. I really wish this didn't even have to be a discussion within the community, this shouldn't be happening, he should be here, and we should be celebrating this album the right way.
It's true. i dont feel the MJ's spirit n creativity in this album. omg. why they keep making money of this man?..
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I know this is a subject people don't like to discuss but I thought I'd bring it up as it seems it could be a likely scenario to me. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Michael Jackson was known to struggle with addiction problems to pharmaceuticals, especially from the mid-nineties on, for a variety of reasons.

Now, I'm not saying Michael was intoxicated when he performed these. Not at all. We all know he sounded just fine while he was a little buzzed. We can see that from the Deposition video. He sounds just fine.

But listen to the Cascio's on the Oprah video. They say they didn't see Michael use any drugs!!! That means that while he was staying at their house he very very well could have been detoxing there and not being surrounded by his normal 'shadowy entourage'.

My point with this is, I've seen what it looks like when a person is detoxing from pharmaceuticals, even common medications like Klonopin. One side-effect that is very very common is severe shakiness and sometimes even seizures. I have no doubt that Michael must have had to go through something similar to this unless he never stopped using drugs ever, which I doubt. We know Michael was strong willed. I don't think he was always a chemically dependent person. He obviously was resting at the Cascio residence for a reason(Sober Support).

The Cascio family themselves say that Michael stayed there for a long period of time. Unless the ENTIRE family is lying. Mrs. Cascio says Michael slept in her house. He ate meals there. Is she lying, too, along with Eddie?

That's all for now. :)

Edit: By the way, Michael Jackson was on prescription drugs in 1992-1993, 2002-2005, and 2009, that we know of. He always sounded like his normal self while he was prescribed to drugs. But if you've been on pharmaceuticals for 15 years and suddenly you decide you don't want to take them anymore, you're going to be in for one hell of a ride.

I still don't see how that can affect his voice to the point to ressemble more Malachi's than his own.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I know this is a subject people don't like to discuss but I thought I'd bring it up as it seems it could be a likely scenario to me. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Michael Jackson was known to struggle with addiction problems to pharmaceuticals, especially from the mid-nineties on, for a variety of reasons.

Now, I'm not saying Michael was intoxicated when he performed these. Not at all. We all know he sounded just fine while he was a little buzzed. We can see that from the Deposition video. He sounds just fine.

But listen to the Cascio's on the Oprah video. They say they didn't see Michael use any drugs!!! That means that while he was staying at their house he very very well could have been detoxing there and not being surrounded by his normal 'shadowy entourage'.

My point with this is, I've seen what it looks like when a person is detoxing from pharmaceuticals, even common medications like Klonopin. One side-effect that is very very common is severe shakiness and sometimes even seizures. I have no doubt that Michael must have had to go through something similar to this unless he never stopped using drugs ever, which I doubt. We know Michael was strong willed. I don't think he was always a chemically dependent person. He obviously was resting at the Cascio residence for a reason(Sober Support).

The Cascio family themselves say that Michael stayed there for a long period of time. Unless the ENTIRE family is lying. Mrs. Cascio says Michael slept in her house. He ate meals there. Is she lying, too, along with Eddie?

That's all for now. :)

Edit: By the way, Michael Jackson was on prescription drugs in 1992-1993, 2002-2005, and 2009, that we know of. He always sounded like his normal self while he was prescribed to drugs. But if you've been on pharmaceuticals for 15 years and suddenly you decide you don't want to take them anymore, you're going to be in for one hell of a ride.

People come up with more and more excuses and possible reasons for the fake sounding of these songs... That's like excuse number 451.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Here a Michael generation singer: Axl Rose (born in 1962)

Listen to the comparison of his voice from 1992 and 2006! His vocal abilities (despite some drugs or age or whatever the excuse) have remained the same. And people are saying that Michael (the greater vocalist) had a "voice-episode" in 2007?

[youtube]2Im90QHlN0I&feature=related[/youtube]
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

the excuse of overprocessing the vocals is totally bullshit.
The vocals on all Cascio tracks are crystal clear and very good quality - processing raw (or any) vocals would make them sound metallic and robotic - there's even an example for that on one of the tracks on the "Michael" album, for which vocals were recorded in a state of art studio. There's none of that on these songs.
In order to believe the overprocessing excuse, you'd also have to believe that Eddie Cascio did not have a studio at all and recorded Michael on a $5 Wallmart mic. No microphone in the $100-$10000 price range would make your voice sound like this - there might be some hiss, there might be some background noise but it would not change a person's voice that particular way. If there were 12 songs recorded in a basement studio, they'd sound just like that - songs recorded in a basement. The vocals would be of a bit lower quality in places and there'd be some incomplete lyrics.

When all Cascio songs come out, one way or another, you'll see that the way the singer screams, the way he pronounces some words is just not Michael Jackson's voice. The recordings are all very clear and mostly unprocessed - there's no heavy autotune or melodyne. All these songs are blatant copies of Michael's earlier work (same themes and same melodies). One of them is even a rip off one of Lennon's masterpieces. Michael would never do that.

to sum it up - either it's Michael (but he didn't sound the way Michael Jackson does) or it is someone else, which I find much more likely.
 
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Can I ask how many of you that just replied to my post have seen, up-close, what detoxing from pharmaceuticals looks and sounds like?

It's not an 'excuse'. It's 100% logical knowing what Michael went through and how he died only two years after recording these songs.

It also ignores the fact that I said Michael sounded just fine in 2009 when he was prescribed to drugs!!!

Come on people, actually read my post.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Can I ask how many of you that just replied to my post have seen, up-close, what detoxing from pharmaceuticals looks and sounds like?

It's not an 'excuse'. It's 100% logical knowing what Michael went through and how he died only two years after recording these songs.

It also ignores the fact that I said Michael sounded just fine in 2009 when he was prescribed to drugs!!!

Come on people, actually read my post.

It sounds very interesting.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Michael Jackson was on prescription drugs during the infamous Martin Bashir Interview/Documentary. We also know that Michael was most likely prescribed to drugs throughout the Child Molestation trials(he had a few injuries on stage, he had major back pain that hospitalized him).

That means that some time after around '05-'06 he had to at least go through one period of detox unless he just kept using drugs until he died, and again I highly doubt he just kept popping pills and asking for an IV every day til he died. Using the Cascio house as a place to stay healthy and as a getaway would be a very smart idea and could have even been advised by someone close to him.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Amiram, I read your post...I've seen what drugs do plenty of times as I'm a nurse....I'm sorry but to me, it's just another excuse....it wouldn't change your voice to the point of being unrecognizable....and certainly not change your pronunciation; that's just ridiculous....I just don't see your point....

We've also heard him sing Smile spontaneously on the Bashir interview and it was a flawless take...Sounded exactly as he does on the record...
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

It wouldn't make your voice shaky at all if you're detoxing from your medications of roughly 15-20 years?

You're saying the shakiness, seizures, extreme nausea, sweating, etc. wouldn't have an effect on one's singing voice?

Edit @ Arklove: Did you READ my post?! :D Come on, Jeeze! We know he was on prescription drugs at that time(the Martin Bashir Interview, I've mentioned this several times)! He wouldn't have sounded like a sick detoxing person.

Just because MJ can sing Smile great after having all his morning medications doesn't prove anything about how someone would sound while detoxing from 20 years of prescription medication abuse.
 
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

It wouldn't make your voice shaky at all if you're detoxing from your medications of roughly 15-20 years?

You're saying the shakiness, seizures, extreme nausea, sweating, etc. wouldn't have an effect on one's singing voice?

Edit @ Arklove: Did you READ my post?! :D Come on, Jeeze! We know he was on prescription drugs at that time(the Martin Bashir Interview, I've mentioned this several times)! He wouldn't have sounded like a sick detoxing person.

Just because MJ can sing Smile great after having all his morning medications doesn't prove anything about how someone would sound while detoxing from 20 years of prescription medication abuse.

Ok, so what you're saying is that Michael Jackson, while detoxing and going through horrid withdrawal symptoms would go ahead and record 12 songs like this? Really? Would YOU want to record if you're feeling like this? Come on now!

And stop asking if I read your post...I said I did....
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Well you brought up the Martin Bashir argument when that obviously wouldn't work in this situation. Iif you had read my post you wouldn't have argued that, since I said he sounded just fine on drugs.

He may have recorded something. Michael has music in his blood, I doubt feeling sick would have prevented him from working one day.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Well you brought up the Martin Bashir argument when that obviously wouldn't work in this situation. Iif you had read my post you wouldn't have argued that, since I said he sounded just fine on drugs.

On drugs or detoxing? Which is it?

In extreme detox, I hardly doubt you'd be able to record anything, let alone wanting to...
 
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