Michael - The Great Album Debate

Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I know your point but I think your comparison was kinda off.

we heard that Cascio songs being "heavily processed" and then you have 2000 watts with "one effect" on it.

Therefore I'm sure a song with a single effect would sound more like Michael than a song with multiple effects on it.

You`re right...But I think when people incessantly persist in comparing 2000 Watts with these Cascio songs to explain why Mike sounds so different, their comparison is kinda off as well...Well, more than kinda off...If as many people doubted 2000 Watts as there are people who doubt the Cascio tracks, then it would be a fair comparison...

I personally don`t think the Cascio songs are as heavily processed as we`re led to believe...
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

according to Teddy Riley 2000 watts isn't really processed. He says Michael sang it that way and it has only one effect on it. so I really wouldn't consider that song to be "processed".

Nobody doubts 2000watts anyway, I even don't know why people (most of the time) non-doubters evoke this song at all actually.



I'll be the devils advocate here and say how is that any different that some people on this thread comparing Cascio's to the likes of Chandlers and Arvizos?

If you play the devil's advocate, try maybe by asking the good questions from the starters before pointing out that the Cascio were compared to Arvizos or Chandlers. As a matter of fact the Cascios WERE NOT compared neither to the Chandlers nor to the Arvizos.

What WAS compared is a series of incidens that Michael endured in his life with his so called friends, implying that no one around Michael can be trusted 100%, including the Cascios.

The examples of such incidents were the Arvizos, the Chandlers, but also Bashir, Rabbi Schmuley or the spoon bender Uri Geller, as much as actually Latoya Jackson, Jermaine Jackson and Randy Jackson or even Joe Jackson.

What most of the fans seem to forget is that the Cascios indeed seem to have never showed greed towards Michael when he was alive, but now that he's dead, who can vouch for this family when they got no proof whatsoever and all of sudden are cashing in millions of dollars over MJ's dead body with questionable songs?

All the above mentioned families and people were not used to equal them with the Cascios, but with a situation which could turn into a profit game at a certain moment of Michael's life/death.

Wasn't the argument that as people sold Michael they could have sold him as well? Didn't some people concluded that they were lying based on take on the body language in Oprah interview?

Body language was not the only criterion. Actually, the body language did nothing else but confirmed the lack of any kind of convincing words, as for example any technical aspect that Michael could have instructed Eddie to do during those 12! songs. Pushing buttons? Really? Is that technical? Why don't you play devil's advocate when Eddie doesn't provide any proof whatsoever?

Everybody on this thread comes to many conclusions based on their guts, the vibes, their ears etc without the need for solid evidence. I think we can let people have their own gut feelings and vibes even though they might not be in sync with ours, can't we?

No we can't. We are not haveing a debate based on our guts but based on some more serious arguments than simple guts. I can more easily accept someone who says that common sense leads her/him to believe that it is Michael Jackson singing those songs than someone who says the guts tell him?

The same goes for the doubters, our common sense is seriously doubting Eddie's so called proof or rather the excuses of their absence.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Either way, if there's only one effect on it, plus him singing in a lower register, it still sounds like Michael Jackson...that's my point....And, I think you knew that...

I wish Michael sang in low register more often. His deep voice is god-damn sexy... :stars:

I can't help but giggle every time I listen to 2000 Watts, thanks to your naughty intrepretation of the lyrics. :naughty:
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

A lot of times when I listen to Invincible I notice the huge difference in his voice compared to other albums and it's really crazy. Especially in songs like Whatever Happens and You Are My Life.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

When MJ recorded he has the tapes running for hours and hours, the whole time, throughout the process. WHat, the cascio's have nothing like that or claim they did have but it got destroyed?? LIARS.
Michael would have engineers or producers or whoever was around to record stuff and transfer it to DAT or CD so he could take it away with him after the recording session and play it back, listen or rework.
MJ used to have photos taken during recording sessions, video footage. Michael DOCUMENTED ANYTHING CREATIVE that he did. Period. But it this one instance we supposedly have NOTHING.
Why? Because it never happened in the first place.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Just to say again, the Cascios themselves NEVER said that they destroyed everything. Never. It was Taryll who made that claim.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I found this new comparison:

[youtube]-ajTAiLs1-8&sns[/youtube]

Amazing. :clapping:


:clapping: :clapping: Great comparisons. Hadn't noticed one of them!


RF claimed work tapes would surface of Mj working on the songs. Why has this not happened?
They don't exist!
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

A lot of times when I listen to Invincible I notice the huge difference in his voice compared to other albums and it's really crazy. Especially in songs like Whatever Happens and You Are My Life.

To me, the difference is not huge at all. Yes, there is difference. It's like how Thriller is different from OTW, how BAD is different from Thriller, how Dangerous is different from BAD. I attribute the difference to aging, like how your voice and my voice sound different now than our voices were 10 years before.

The point is no matter how different you think he sounded in Invincible, it's still unmistakenly Michael Jackson. No?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Just to say again, the Cascios themselves NEVER said that they destroyed everything. Never. It was Taryll who made that claim.

And the Cascios never denied it.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

As a matter of fact the Cascios WERE NOT compared neither to the Chandlers nor to the Arvizos.

well don't make such definitive statements covering everybody. Perhaps you didn't but as a matter of fact they were compared to chandlers and Arvizos by other people (some even claimed they were worse than Chandler and Arvizos) and majority of those posts were cleaned and we even discussed these comparisons in this thread.

What WAS compared is a series of incidens that Michael endured in his life with his so called friends, implying that no one around Michael can be trusted 100%, including the Cascios.

What most of the fans seem to forget is that the Cascios indeed seem to have never showed greed towards Michael when he was alive, but now that he's dead, who can vouch for this family when they got no proof whatsoever and all of sudden are cashing in millions of dollars over MJ's dead body with questionable songs?

and this is fine but you are missing my point. What solid evidence that you have this is the case? and I know you'll reply me as "I know what I hear and that's not Michael". Fine but isn't that your opinion, your ears, your gut feeling, the vibe etc you have?

so what if some people have some different opinions , ears, gut feelings and vibes towards the people involved in this situation?

Read what I posted more carefully. I didn't say who is right or wrong, I didn't offer a conclusion. I didn't give an opinion on the subject. (and I don't plan to) I simply said if you can form an opinion on Cascio's based on your gut, vibe, ear, evaluation, opinion (call it what you want) then other people can form similar opinions on Taryll, Cory etc.. Just let them have their opinions. Let them be (and that's my whole point), it's that simple...
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Isn't that the same as saying that Kenny Ortega and Co. overworked Michael just because they never denied it (to my knowledge), or that I regularly wear a hat because of MJ because I don't deny it?

Could it be that they are offended by the very thought of people accusing them of betraying MJ that they refuse to dignify accusations with responses? That's what I would do, because I knew that I wouldn't be able to satisfy everyone.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I found this new comparison:

[youtube]-ajTAiLs1-8&sns[/youtube]

Amazing. :clapping:

You never "found" it, your just making new accounts and reuploading crappy comparison videos =)

Are you trying to subliminally brainwash people into believing its not MJ? I can see the flashing $ony Cascio sign.
 
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

well don't make such definitive statements covering everybody. Perhaps you didn't but as a matter of fact they were compared to chandlers and Arvizos by other people (some even claimed they were worse than Chandler and Arvizos) and majority of those posts were cleaned and we even discussed these comparisons in this thread.

The situation Ivy, the situation was compared. Money grabbing was compared. Not their psyhoclogical aspect based on someone's guts.



and this is fine but you are missing my point. What solid evidence that you have this is the case? and I know you'll reply me as "I know what I hear and that's not Michael". Fine but isn't that your opinion, your ears, your gut feeling, the vibe etc you have?

YOU are missing the point, I am not judging anyone with my guts. I hear exactly the same as a big number of MJ's fans-- not an MJ's usual voice, it has nothing to do with guts or feelings or vibes, but the ability to hear something you are not used to. The guts is not a part of five senses, sorry, but again you are missing the point, unless you consider your guts as a 6th sense and you "see dead people" for example.

so what if some people have some different opinions , ears, gut feelings and vibes towards the people involved in this situation?

Their point is undebatable.

Read what I posted more carefully. I didn't say who is right or wrong, I didn't offer a conclusion. I said if you can form an opinion on Cascio's based on your gut, vibe, ear, evaluation, opinion then other people can form similar opinions on Taryll, Cory etc.. Just let them have their opinions. Let them be, it's that simple...

You really don't seem to understand. Who actually cares in this whole thread of 400 pages about Eddie or Taryll or I don't know who?

The vocals are questioned firstly. Secondly, if someone has or has no credibility, you don't debate it by saying "my guts tell me so". Of course you can have your opinion, I don't need to be told so either, but thank you for telling me. Now what's your point? Gut-debating?

Isn't that the same as saying that Kenny Ortega and Co. overworked Michael just because they never denied it (to my knowledge), or that I regularly wear a hat because of MJ because I don't deny it?

Well no, it is not the same. To my knowledge the film proved that Kenny wasn't a liar and I didn't see a sick Michael. His film is a kind of proof.

What proof did Eddie provide? He's been accused of selling fake songs, yet he has nothing tangible to proof contrary to Ortega. I actually didn't follow the debate about This Is It, so I couldn't possibly tell what Ortega answered and what he didn't answer to the claims and accusations.

Nonetheless, if Taryll lied, Eddie would have provided the traces from his computer at some point, or worktapes, or whatever else. So, so far Taryll's version seems to be more plausible, i.e. the non-existence of any trace.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I'm afraid to even click that Youtube video. It looks like a virus to me, that title is like a bad scary spam message.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

... Just to clarify, I haven't reported any posts on here. Plus, I don't judge Taryll's credibility based solely on my guts. I base them on the fact that his and Cory Rooney's song was knocked off the tracklisting and at the same time they're the only people involved with the album that are kicking off about the Cascio tracks, the very tracks that replaced theirs.

... Now I will leave.
 
Worldwide;3304649 said:
You never "found" it, your just making new accounts and reuploading crappy comparison videos =)

Are you trying to subliminally brainwash people into believing its not MJ? I can see the flashing $ony Cascio sign.

Don´t tell false things. I did not made that comparison.

[youtube]-ajTAiLs1-8[/youtube]

Next time, be carefull with your word... because i can say:

Are you Jason Malachi?

Did you hacked webs or forums?.

:doh:
 
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

... Just to clarify, I haven't reported any posts on here. Plus, I don't judge Taryll's credibility based solely on my guts. I base them on the fact that his and Cory Rooney's song was knocked off the tracklisting and at the same time they're the only people involved with the album that are kicking off about the Cascio tracks, the very tracks that replaced theirs.

... Now I will leave.

I would have prefered that you had reported me, because it means that Ivy took her own initiative to accuse me of something I didn't do to you.

Did you feel bullied Jesta?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I'm afraid to even click that Youtube video. It looks like a virus to me, that title is like a bad scary spam message.

Ok, good for you. A good excuse to not accept the truth.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Well, to be completely honest, I did feel as if you took my "vibes" comment a bit too harshly, but not really bullied, just caught up in the heat of a metaphorical battle that this debate sometimes brings.
 
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Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

But at the same time, I also provided reasons for my view regarding Taryll Jackson. I only provided the vibes part because, like a lot of things in this thread, I have no real evidence to back this up aside from assumptions. A lot of this debate and our views in this subject are made up of our own instincts and assumptions over the situation.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

But at the same time, I also provided reasons for my view regarding Taryll Jackson. I only provided the vibes part because, like a lot of things in this thread, I have no real evidence to back this up aside from assumptions. A lot of this debate and our views in this subject are made up of our own instincts and assumptions over the situation.

Well, I also provided a comment with which you agreed. Didn't you? Now if you didn't agree you could have counter my comment, couldn't you?
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

In all fairness I tend to submit defeat in ways such as that when I don't want an argument to unfold, many of my friends would tell you that I did that rather frequently in the winter of '09 with "Alex/Susie".

My use of "Fair enough" is usually a dead giveaway.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Just coming in to say that i think the latest comparison video is tremendous. It is certainly not just more of the same. It's the longest most detailed comparison so far and it shows crystally clear that jason malachi sings those horrendous insults to michael. When will this farce end? Thank you to whoever made that video. I hope it spreads far and wide and i hope it is being sent to media.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

To be honest, 'you must be kidding' isn't a very polite thing to say about someone's opinion. Your post wasn't so bad that it deserves an entire mini-debate, though, BUMPER, but I feel like you're being over dramatic lately, you might want to tone it down a little?

I don't really have a problem with you, I enjoy your posts, I look forward to the opinion you give and your insights, but I will admit that you can come across as acting 'superior' sometimes, in my opinion. And maybe that's just the role you need to take as a debater and trying to sound like you know what you're talking about, but we can still all be polite to one another.

If someone offers an opinion that you find to be ridiculous or stupid or silly, responding politely and gently and explaining your point-of-view clearly will make them respect your opinion much more than going 'You must be joking!' That's belittling.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

To be honest, 'you must be kidding' isn't a very polite thing to say about someone's opinion. Your post wasn't so bad that it deserves an entire mini-debate, though, BUMPER, but I feel like you're being over dramatic lately, you might want to tone it down a little?

I don't really have a problem with you, I enjoy your posts, I look forward to the opinion you give and your insights, but I will admit that you can come across as acting 'superior' sometimes, in my opinion. And maybe that's just the role you need to take as a debater and trying to sound like you know what you're talking about, but we can still all be polite to one another.

If someone offers an opinion that you find to be ridiculous or stupid or silly, responding politely and gently and explaining your point-of-view clearly will make them respect your opinion much more than going 'You must be joking!' That's belittling.


I have been discussing with Jesta for months now. Jesta is more mature than his age suggests. He's able to defend himself. He's one of the "believers" that I enjoy talking to.

Bumper is not belittling at all. Please. I say "are you joking? are you for real?" all the time... Come on...

No, I don't think Bumper is being over dramatic. But, people are getting very sensitive lately.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

^ Maybe so. That's just how I felt. And I know Jesta can defend himself. I didn't mean to imply that he can't.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

Lets stop this f***ery the 12 Cascio Tracks are


  • All I Need
  • All Right
  • Black Widow
  • Breaking News
  • Burn 2 Night
  • Fall In Love
  • Keep Your Head Up
  • Monster
  • Ready 2 Win
  • Soldier Boy
  • Stay
  • Water

i luvs birchey. just wanted to say that.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

To be honest, 'you must be kidding' isn't a very polite thing to say about someone's opinion. Your post wasn't so bad that it deserves an entire mini-debate, though, BUMPER, but I feel like you're being over dramatic lately, you might want to tone it down a little?

I don't really have a problem with you, I enjoy your posts, I look forward to the opinion you give and your insights, but I will admit that you can come across as acting 'superior' sometimes, in my opinion. And maybe that's just the role you need to take as a debater and trying to sound like you know what you're talking about, but we can still all be polite to one another.

If someone offers an opinion that you find to be ridiculous or stupid or silly, responding politely and gently and explaining your point-of-view clearly will make them respect your opinion much more than going 'You must be joking!' That's belittling.


You know, since I am held responsible for Jesta's post, then I guess that in all fairness someone else should be held responsible for my post.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

I have been discussing with Jesta for months now. Jesta is more mature than his age suggests. He's able to defend himself. He's one of the "believers" that I enjoy talking to.

Bumper is not belittling at all. Please. I say "are you joking? are you for real?" all the time... Come on...

No, I don't think Bumper is being over dramatic. But, people are getting very sensitive lately.

That just made my morning. Thanks, Love!!! :) :) :)


I personally didn't think that this whole thing would turn into a mini-debate, and I apologize to both Bumper and Ivy for letting this happen. In complete honesty, I took that segment of that post down, as well as backed down purely to stop what I thought could be an argument that I didn't want to get into. Yes, I did feel slightly intimidated by Bumper's post, but it wouldn't be the first time that someone has in this thread, and that's why I wanted to disarm the situation before it potentially got out of hand. No-one should be held accountable for that.
 
Re: Michael - The Great Album Debate (Only Go Here if You Want To Continue The Controversy)

That just made my morning. Thanks, Love!!! :) :) :)


I personally didn't think that this whole thing would turn into a mini-debate, and I apologize to both Bumper and Ivy for letting this happen. In complete honesty, I took that segment of that post down, as well as backed down purely to stop what I thought could be an argument that I didn't want to get into. Yes, I did feel slightly intimidated by Bumper's post, but it wouldn't be the first time that someone has in this thread, and that's why I wanted to disarm the situation before it potentially got out of hand. No-one should be held accountable for that.

Jesta, you didn't do anything wrong, you don't need to apologize for something you actually didn't trigger.

But I don't understand why were you intimidated in a debate thread by me? You felt though free to counter argue, didn't you? I never insulted anyone for their opinions here, I simply debate the opinions.
 
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