Michael Jackson v. Wade Robson, a new trial to be held

I don't have a Twitter account and have no intention of signing up. That said, I do find some useful stuff on there. When all of this kicked off I posted a few tweets from @andjustice4some. Yesterday I saw a bit of an interesting convo about all the stuff we've just been talking about. I copy and pasted a couple of the tweets as a reminder to myself. Later on, when I went back to look at the convo properly, I couldn't get in. Sometimes Twitter blocks you if you don't have an account - presumably to encourage you to sign up - but it never lasts very long. This is still going on today. Plus the page that's coming up now isn't the usual 'sign up' thing. I dunno, maybe they're having a technical glitch or something. It's been out of reach to me all day and that is unusual.


Yes, this is what I meant. Today it's been a different page, this one's asking me to retry but, of course, it hasn't worked.


I don't have an account but I don't normally have any problems accessing Twitter. I really think it'll be a technical hiccup.


Fingers crossed. The convo I saw yesterday, there was one comment about how the judges seemed to have conceded lots of stuff to WR and JS and had only conceded a few points to MJE. But I'm not gonna stress about it bc that's pointless. Michael's legal team will be used to this, I'm sure. I'm confident they will have anticipated all the different possible outcomes and will have relevant contingency plans in place re how they will respond. So I'm not losing hope. I'm anxious, ngl, but am trying to stay hopeful.


Exactly.


Indeed. Feels very different.

I wish the estate could get Mesereau again. But man, I keep wishing the day comes that karma finally strikes these two criminals, it's just unbelievable how they can keep going on and on. It's honestly just unfair.
 
@BuffaloBill87 and others, please don't make this thread about personal attacks. This is a very sensitive topic, its find to discuss and express your opinion, but this is a fan forum, no disrespecting Michael here. I tried to cleanup the thread, but I cannot remove all personal attacks.
 
Buffalo i cant beelive u actually said that! michael hated that! hes not wacko if you hate michael so much why are you in this site GET OUT!
Not taking any sides here,but they clearly stated that it was a persona that Michael Jackson has put on,during his lifetime. No need to get overly sensitive over everything that someone says on here,since it doesn't get you anywhere,at all. Correct me if I'm wrong,though.
 
I wish the estate could get Mesereau again. But man, I keep wishing the day comes that karma finally strikes these two criminals, it's just unbelievable how they can keep going on and on. It's honestly just unfair.
I think Meserau is allready a adviser in the Estate`s team. But he is a lawyer for criminal cases not civil cases.
 
I think Meserau is allready a adviser in the Estate`s team. But he is a lawyer for criminal cases not civil cases.
Exactly. I'm hoping Tom will contribute in an advisory capacity. Although it is a civil case it really is a criminal case in all but name. One of the tweets I saw, which quoted from the ruling, showed that the judges were using the term 'victims'. The judges do use the word 'plaintiff', of course, but they definitely also used the word 'victim' and that just seems wrong to me. Prejudicial, surely.
 
The reason is rather that you lack reason.
Or they simply have a different opinion?
Michael Jackson has been dead for what will be soon a decade and a half.
I am of the fence as well,as I see arguments from both sides pretty valid,at times.Whatever he was or wasn't,does it really matter anymore?
1.Suppose that he was innocent. Sure,his family went through a terrible loss either way,but at least he is not suffering anymore. (and neither will his Estate,if they will be wise enough to win this case)
2.Suppose that he wasn't actually innocent,to put it that way. Not only that he has been dead for what will soon be 15 years,but if really anything actually happened (and I really hope that it did not),then at least Wade had gone through therapy,participated in a documentary that was supposed to expose whatever it was supposed to expose,and,nonetheless,might be winning this trial if what he is claiming is somehow true(saying this while I am on the fence as well,as I can see why both sides think the way that they do). So in this scenario,neither would be Wade and the ones like him suffering anymore,that's the point that I am trying to get across.
So really,why does it matter anymore? The suffering is over (or at least not as terrible as it used to be,I hope) for whoever the actual victim was.
So we,the fans,are left with either just enjoying the amazing music that Jackson has been known for several decades,either move on from him.So which one will it be?
(I've made my own choice if it matters,which is enjoying the music and performances that made Michael a legend,whoever the hell this Michael was backstage,innocent or not).
 
So really,why does it matter anymore?
It matters, imo, bc a case is being brought to court which centres on Michael. It's a civil case but, really, it more or less is a criminal case except Michael isn't here to defend himself. The burden of proof is much lower. A jury - or the judge - only has to feel there's a 50.01% chance that the accusations are true for them to bring in a guilty verdict. In a civil case it seems to be about the 'preponderance of evidence' by which I think they mean the volume or amount of evidence. Which makes me nervous. I would actually feel more confident if Michael were still alive and a criminal case was happening (I know WR and JS most likely wouldn't be doing this if Michael was still alive, I'm just saying ...).

Even that Court of Appeal ruling uses the term 'victim' to refer (sometimes) to WR and JS. wth?

Aaargghhh! I'm not explaining myself. All I'm doing is telling you stuff you already know. I'm going to leave this for someone else to address. I'm getting myself into a muddle. Gah!
 
It matters, imo, bc a case is being brought to court which centres on Michael. It's a civil case but, really, it more or less is a criminal case except Michael isn't here to defend himself. The burden of proof is much lower. A jury - or the judge - only has to feel there's a 50.01% chance that the accusations are true for them to bring in a guilty verdict. In a civil case it seems to be about the 'preponderance of evidence' by which I think they mean the volume or amount of evidence. Which makes me nervous. I would actually feel more confident if Michael were still alive and a criminal case was happening (I know WR and JS most likely wouldn't be doing this if Michael was still alive, I'm just saying ...).

Even that Court of Appeal ruling uses the term 'victim' to refer (sometimes) to WR and JS. wth?

Aaargghhh! I'm not explaining myself. All I'm doing is telling you stuff you already know. I'm going to leave this for someone else to address. I'm getting myself into a muddle. Gah!

Is that really true about the 50.01%? Because that's insane and it would really show how messed up things are in the USA. The man is gone, long gone, can't defend himself. Yet here we have two opportunists, with a history of lying, perjury even, making shit up left and right without any proof, claiming it's not about money, yet they sue for tons of money, their agenda is so clear. This is not victim behaviour, because a real victim has no need to make new lies, change their story and what not.

It's unbelievable what is happening here. Things were going so well, the BS from W & J got dismissed every damn time, but then it was decided to have it go to trial. It's a little unclear to me, but did actually three judges decide this or was it one? My head is spinning because of all this, if it's actually three, then wtf?

Leads me to something else. Let's say in worst case scenario things aren't going well for the estate, can they settle but without admitting any guilt on MJ and their part? Basically like the settlement Michael made with the Chandlers? After all he never ever admitted any guilt. Or does it not work that way with things like these? I really don't want these two pieces of shit to get any money though.

Man, let's just hope it can be at least FAIR, because it sure isn't sounding like it. Can Michael at least have that? Just unbelievable really, completely false allegations, zero evidence, nothing and yet here we go. They destroyed this man's life, he had to freaking die for the world to love him again and two utterly rotten to the core backstabbers are ruining even that.

Yeah, I really want to believe their day will come, a special place in hell for them. Please. It's truly the only thing they deserve.
 
I just wish whatever happens goes quickly and then they make a law that bans anyone again ever trying to sully the name of Michael Jackson. There must be a statute of limitations on basically what are now archaeological allegations.

The fact any court would consider entertaining these assclowns, shows you how unfair and corrupt the US Legal system is. Banning abortions and Affirmative action. I shudder to think what these right wing Nazis will do next.
 
You know what? I love the mystique around Michael, all the crazy stories( some that were planted by him) and all that jazz the whole Wacko Jacko persona - he was larger than life and very unique.

That's not the issue here.
That moniker is not allowed on these forums.
 
The word WJ is banned here in any context.
There were two rules here when he was amongst us on this forum. You don't post pics of his (then) young children and WJ is banned from here.
I know noone is posting pics i am just saying those were the rules which were requested , and i believe the WJ one still stands.
Yes, it stands.
 
I don't have a Twitter account and have no intention of signing up. That said, I do find some useful stuff on there. When all of this kicked off I posted a few tweets from @andjustice4some. Yesterday I saw a bit of an interesting convo about all the stuff we've just been talking about. I copy and pasted a couple of the tweets as a reminder to myself. Later on, when I went back to look at the convo properly, I couldn't get in. Sometimes Twitter blocks you if you don't have an account - presumably to encourage you to sign up - but it never lasts very long. This is still going on today. Plus the page that's coming up now isn't the usual 'sign up' thing. I dunno, maybe they're having a technical glitch or something. It's been out of reach to me all day and that is unusual.

I have the same problem with twitter. do you really think this sign up thing will be only temporar?
 
It matters, imo, bc a case is being brought to court which centres on Michael. It's a civil case but, really, it more or less is a criminal case except Michael isn't here to defend himself. The burden of proof is much lower. A jury - or the judge - only has to feel there's a 50.01% chance that the accusations are true for them to bring in a guilty verdict. In a civil case it seems to be about the 'preponderance of evidence' by which I think they mean the volume or amount of evidence. Which makes me nervous. I would actually feel more confident if Michael were still alive and a criminal case was happening (I know WR and JS most likely wouldn't be doing this if Michael was still alive, I'm just saying ...).

Even that Court of Appeal ruling uses the term 'victim' to refer (sometimes) to WR and JS. wth?

Aaargghhh! I'm not explaining myself. All I'm doing is telling you stuff you already know. I'm going to leave this for someone else to address. I'm getting myself into a muddle. Gah!
Only 50.01% chance?
Yeah,this is surely going down. I am not even going to research anything anymore. This is it.
Innocent or not,fairly or not,I feel that this is somehow going to be a win for WR and JS (a win that I'm not sure that they even deserve,more or the less).
Whatever...
Really..whatever...
(Don't worry by the way,I seem to repeat myself just as much oop).
If they are really lying,and if they are really going to win (which is far from impossible in my view,at least),then what can we do anymore?
This is simply terrible.
Michael,and as well as his legacy,are the 'pure' epitome of the phrase "beautiful but damned". Anyway you take it,"beautiful but damned" sums this whole circus up very well.
I'm not planning on letting this situation hurt myself even more than it already did (though it for sure will,eventually).
I can't wait to see how one of my dearest childhood memories will be turned into the "poster boy" for pedophilia in the music industry (when he might not even have been an actual pedophile,mind you. But who knows...who knows).
'Human' race they say. Yeah right..
 
Last edited:
I have the same problem with twitter. do you really think this sign up thing will be only temporar?
No idea. I'm not on Twitter so really don't know much about it. Today is day 3 that I can't get onto it. Maybe this is the new regime now that Elon Musk owns it. I don't usually follow conversations and I have no desire to join but I did want to see what was being said about the ruling from the California Court of Appeal. I'm just gonna wait and see what happens.

EDIT - just caught the tail end of a news item. Looks like Elon Musk has made some changes to Twitter. There are some new limitations in place. I didn't catch the full report so am a bit hazy on the details.
 
Last edited:
Is that really true about the 50.01%? Because that's insane and it would really show how messed up things are in the USA.
It applies in the UK, as well. These are extremely serious criminal allegations and they are to be tried in a civil case? That's just all kinds of wrong, imo. I know it has to be a civil case bc Michael is dead but, I'm just saying, it's an atrocious arrangement.

It's unbelievable what is happening here. Things were going so well, the BS from W & J got dismissed every damn time, but then it was decided to have it go to trial. It's a little unclear to me, but did actually three judges decide this or was it one?
Three judges at the California Court of Appeal made the decision.

My head is spinning because of all this, if it's actually three, then wtf?
This isn't really anything to stress about, imo. I don't know anything about this but maybe it's normal to have a panel of judges deciding things in a court of appeal. I think we are all so used to criminal cases being heard by one judge (plus jury) that we perhaps forget that in other areas of the law things are done differently. For example, as I've said before, there might not be a jury. Civil cases can be heard by a judge and jury or just by a judge alone. I don't think the '3 judge' thing has any significance as far as this case goes.

Leads me to something else. Let's say in worst case scenario things aren't going well for the estate, can they settle but without admitting any guilt on MJ and their part? Basically like the settlement Michael made with the Chandlers? After all he never ever admitted any guilt. Or does it not work that way with things like these? I really don't want these two pieces of shit to get any money though.
No idea. I would think a settlement is highly unlikely. Presumably it would have happened already.
 
Last edited:
Only 50.01% chance?
Yeah,this is surely going down.
No, no! Come on, PT! I know Prince is your guy but let's NOT go crazy! :)

Seriously, though, it's too early to panic and I'm sure the MJE legal team is tackling this quite calmly. Lawyers are used to dealing with stuff that freaks the hell out of the rest of us. Like settlements, for example. They see it happening all the time and they know it doesn't have to mean that the person was guilty or responsible for whatever they were accused of.

I am not even going to research anything anymore.
I think that's a fair point. I can't get onto Twitter now. Perhaps I should take that as a sign to back the hell off from this? Bc I can't influence what happens. I can only pray for justice for Michael.

This is it.
Let's hope not.

Innocent or not,fairly or not,I feel that this is somehow going to be a win for WR and JS (a win that I'm not sure that they even deserve,more or the less).
For me it's too soon to tell. It could go either way. Ngl, I am very anxious about this and it seems unfairly biased in their favour which I can hardly stand. I hate the fact of criminal allegations being dealt with in a civil case. I hate the much lower burden of proof.

If they are really lying,and if they are really going to win (which is far from impossible in my view,at least),then what can we do anymore?
In truth, probably nothing. As far as what happens inside the court room, nothing can be done.

That said, it won't be like 2005. Social media is a thing now. It's going to be very different, I'm sure of that. This isn't about fans waving banners. This is an army of people who know this shit inside out, they have basically turned themselves into paralegals. They can't affect the court case itself but they can challenge the public conversation.

This is simply terrible.
It's not good. But it's not completely hopeless, either.

Michael,and as well as his legacy,are the 'pure' epitome of the phrase "beautiful but damned". Anyway you take it,"beautiful but damned" sums this whole circus up very well.
:(

I'm not planning on letting this situation hurt myself even more than it already did [...]
That is so sensible. My intention is the same.

Here is a good breakdown on this case explained by a lawyer.
Bumping this in case anyone missed it. The first 20 minutes with the lawyer? Well worth watching, imo.
 
Last edited:
It applies in the UK, as well. These are extremely serious criminal allegations and they are to be tried in a civil case? That's just all kinds of wrong, imo. I know it has to be a civil case bc Michael is dead but, I'm just saying, it's an atrocious arrangement.


Three judges at the California Court of Appeal made the decision.


This isn't really anything to stress about, imo. I don't know anything about this but maybe it's normal to have a panel of judges deciding things in a court of appeal. I think we are all so used to criminal cases being heard by one judge (plus jury) that we perhaps forget that in other areas of the law things are done differently. For example, as I've said before, there might not be a jury. Civil cases can be heard by a judge and jury or just by a judge alone. I don't think the '3 judge' thing has any significance as far as this case goes.


No idea. I would think a settlement is highly unlikely. Presumably it would have happened already.

Yeah, it sounds like a big mess all around, and anything but fair. It seems it could take a while for it to even get started, so I guess we wait and see.

 
Last edited:
The whole case will drag on again for a long time and projects will all be postponed to the point of puking

It's so insanely frustrating, after all the things this man has done to help people. And we are pretty much powerless. These two criminals never should have been able to have so many chances at appeals and in the meantime changing their story too. How fucking ridiculous is the USA really? What a joke. We finally were gonna get a promising biopic, the musical is done amazingly well....

I'll refrain on saying what I genuinely wish on people like this. 🤮

And now it likely going to court, low burden of proof, really, how much more is it gonna go their way? Absolute insanity.
 
These allegations bring up unwanted stories from the past, it's not just Robson and Safechuck, it makes you question relationships that he's had with Brett Barnes and Omer Bhatti.

Even the likes of Terry George or those Mexican boys.

Really? I find both above bolded to be pretty much irrelevant as there is no merit to the accusations other than MJ-haters gossiping about them on a weekly basis discussing in detail what alleged sex acts that might have taken place with the mexican boys if they exist and if MJ ever had any contact with them etc.

FBI Files Support Jackson's Innocence; Media Reports Otherwise​


"MYTH: The FBI file reveals that Jackson was investigated in 1985 for molesting two Mexican boys.

FACT: An FBI officer recorded an allegation that the bureau had previously investigated Jackson in 1985 for the molestation of two Mexican boys. This allegation was made by an unnamed writer who said the story had been told to him during research for a book. The FBI searched its records and could find no evidence that any such allegation had ever been reported to them.

... but the majority of media outlets failed to mention this important fact. A simple oversight, I'm sure..."
---
MYTH: "The FBI found that Jackson had engaged in phone sex with a British boy.

FACT: This story comes courtesy of The Sun.

The FBI file briefly references a newspaper story in which a man called Terry George claimed that Jackson, aged 19, had engaged in phonesex with him when he was just 13.

The Sun was rather proud that this story was referenced in the FBI file because it was the Sun which published it in the first place. As such, the newspaper was quick to toot its own horn with an 'FBI investigates Jackson over Sun's investigation' type fanfare.

In fact, the FBI did not investigate the claim and to date no evidence has been produced to support Terry George's story.

In its story about the FBI file, the Sun repeatedly referred to the phonecall between Jackson and Terry George as a matter of fact, even though no evidence has ever been produced to prove that the conversation ever took place.

George is a man of dubious character to say the least, currently owning a string of smutty phonesex companies. His story doesn't seem to add up, either. Despite Jackson's supposed inappropriate behaviour, George's website carries a photograph of himself with the star more than five years after the phonecall allegedly happened. The two still look like firm friends.

In subsequent interviews George has described how he lost touch with Jackson and resorted to behaviour which could be described as stalking - calling Jackson all the time, hanging around outside his hotels, trying to bluff his way past Jackson's security. More than anything, George's interview with the Sun seemed like an act of jealous revenge by an embittered former acquaintance. Either way, the FBI found no merit to George's claim."

---

Are you also questioning the non-existing supposed sex tape with MJ and a boy that Diane Diamond put her reputation as a journalist on? (Gutierrez was the source of course) Are you also questioning the 1000s of hoax tips that the prosecutions hotline generated in 2005, when the DAs office begged people to contact them with any info whatsoever who could help put MJ behind bars and bolster their weak case. Phone calls poured in but not even the biased Tom Sneddon found anything he could use, pretty telling.

Are you really concerned about random claims made by anonymous sources citing events and unknown people we have no idea if they even exist?
 
Last edited:





Seriously, if this garbage person ends up winning, I don't know wtf the justice system is about anymore but I do know it won't be about justice in any shape or form. Surely they see all this?
Who would stand in line for his tormentor to buy his cd that stinks to high heaven he'll do anything to get millions
 
Who would stand in line for his tormentor to buy his cd that stinks to high heaven he'll do anything to get millions

Exactly! And this is one of the many things the estate should show. If actual justice isn't gonna be done then it's a embarrassment for the USA justice system. But this is a incredibly serious subject, and only 50.01% needed is not good. For such a thing the burden of proof should be way higher, because if they rule guilty they are condemning someone who isn't here to defend himself, it's impossible to proof but it's very possible to show what kind of people we're dealing with.

Hope to god they see this too. But these are different times now with, someone gets accused and is pretty much guilty immediately, in 2005 it was a different time in terms of that.
 
Back
Top