Katherine Jackson vs AEG Live -Daily Trial Testimony Summary

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Jacksons vs AEG - Day 29 – June 13 2013 – Summary

(Source: Majority of the below is from ABC7 unless otherwise indicated)

Randy Phillips Testimony

AEG cross

Jurors viewed a lengthy clip of Michael Jackson as he rehearsed "Billie Jean." some jurors could not help but smile. Phillips wiped his eyes. Jackson performed his iconic gyrations. Phillips testified that video, shot weeks before Jackson died, showed no signs of health problems.

Putnam showed "Trouble of the Front" email chain that Randy Phillips forwarded to MJ's team at the time saying we have a real problem here. Phillips: I thought it was essential they got this information, I wanted to be completely transparent with his management team. "I wanted everybody to be in the loop of the information I was getting,"

Phillips said. "I didn't know what the problem was," Phillips said, adding MJ never told him he wasn't ready or didn't want to perform. Phillips said that he never said nor had any discussions about pulling the plug on the tour. "Michael's only obligation was to show up and perform a class act show at opening night," Phillips explained.

Phillips said he never mentioned a substance abuse could be the problem. John Branca, MJ's lawyer, inquired if it could be the issue.

Phillips said he does not remember ever seeing a contract where the artist is required to rehearse. "The only requirement an artist had is to deliver a class act show," Phillips explained. Enrique Iglesias never showed up to rehearsals in the last tour Phillips did, the exec said. "I thought it was odd, but Enrique Iglesias showed up in Boston, did an amazing show, got great reviews."

Phillips said he expected MJ to rehearse because he hadn't been on stage over 12 years. "As everything with MJ, this production was the biggest, the best, the greatest the world has ever seen," Phillips explained. Phillips testified MJ told Kenny Ortega he did not need to rehearse because he had been dancing his songs all his life.

Putnam: Did you ever tell MJ or his management team he was in breach of his contract? Phillips: No

Putnam: Did you discuss MJ's medical treatment with Dr. Murray? Phillips: No
Phillips said he never discussed substance abuse or use of Propofol with Dr. Murray.

Phillips explained in the 25-minute conversation with Dr. Murray he recounted information he received from Kenny Ortega and John Hougdahl. "It was actually very confusing," Phillips said. "had emails from Kenny and Hougdahl and then Dr. Murray assuring me MJ was fine." Phillips said Dr. Murray told him MJ was fine, he wasn't sure what was wrong with him in the rehearsal the night before, maybe the flu. Putnam: Did you know what was going on? Phillips: Not a clue, I was very confused. After that, Phillips said he sent an email to Ortega detailing his conversation with Dr. Murray. "He (Dr. Murray) was just so calm on the phone, and sure of what he was saying, he was very believable," Phillips said. That's why Phillips wrote in the email he was respecting Dr. Murray more and more. Phillips: I think it's important to give him love, support, not second guess, give diagnosis of what we think the problem is

Putnam: At the time you wrote 'the doctor is extremely successful', did you believe this to be true? Phillips: Yes
Phillips: I was told he had asked $5 million to buy out clinics in 3 different states. To me, hearing that, meant he was a successful doctor

"We check everyone out" reference in Phillips' email: Putnam: Did you mean u performed financial background check on Dr Murray? Phillips: No
"That referred what in my mind is the process we go through when we do business with third party vendors," Phillips explained.
Phillips said at that point he had sufficient information to believe what he wrote was true.

Phillips said he wouldn't even think of checking a doctor's finance to determine whether he's fit to practice medicine. Phillips: Never occurred to me if a doctor was a good business man or not, a doctor could not perform his functions because he's in debt. Phillips said by knowing Dr. Murray was in debt, he could've said to MJ to pay less for the services since the doctor needed the job.

Putnam: Were you in any position to tell MJ what he needed to prepare for the shows? Phillips: No

Phillips said that if they stopped the show at that point, he is not sure MJ could ever resume his career.

Phillips explained he wanted Ortega to be open minded about what was going on with MJ and the exec didn't want him to quit. "I think he's one of the most creative, artist-oriented director and I understand why MJ loved him show much," Phillips said about Ortega. "I was concerned, confused, I had Dr Murray's information and prospective and I had Kenny's information and prospective" Phillips explained. "I was completely baffled as to what was going on," Phillips said.

"As far as I was concerned, the only person in charge of Michael Jackson's health was Michael Jackson," Phillips said. (AP)

"The only person in charge of Michael Jackson's health is Michael Jackson. He was a 50 year old man, father of three," Phillips opined. Putnam: Was there any reason to believe MJ wasn't capable of making his own medical decisions? Phillips: None whatsoever

Meeting on June 20th was between Kenny Ortega, Dr. Murray, MJ and Phillips. Putnam: Was Dr. Murray attending because AEG wanted him there? Phillips: Frank DiLeo wanted him there. "He was MJ's personal physician," Phillips explained. Ortega opened the meeting and didn't get very far, Phillips recalled. Dr Murray interrupted him and told him to stop being an amateur doctor. Dr. Murray told Ortega he should leave MJ's health in his hands, Phillips recalled. Ortega was a bit surprise that Dr. Murray admonished him. "Basic stay in your lane, this is my lane, I have it," Phillips said. "Michael looked great, he was fine in this meeting," Phillips testified. "I've been doing this choreography most of my career, have muscle memory, don't need to rehearse all the time" Phillips said MJ told Ortega. "You build the house and when you're done, I'll come and put the door on and paint it," Phillips described MJ said. MJ agreed to start coming to rehearsals, he understood Kenny needed him since it was such a complex production, Phillips told the jury. "MJ needed to learn his cues, this was a massive effects show," Phillips said. "It was incredible, they loved each other. MJ told us he wouldn't do This Is It this is it without Ortega directing it," Phillips recalled. Phillips: Michael looked great, the doctor was reassuring, Kenny interacted with MJ, Kenny was was on board and Michael seemed to be fine. "All I thought at this point was that he (Dr. Murray) and a Michael had a fabulous relationship," Phillips said.

Randy Phillips said he was concerned about information from tour high-level tour works that Jackson was unable to rehearse six days before his death, but he was reassured by the MJ’s doctor that everything was fine. Phillips said the MJ appeared fine at a meeting held hours after he received a series of emails from tour personnel that Jackson's health was deteriorating and he appeared physically incapable of preparing for his comeback shows, dubbed "This Is It." The reports of Jackson shivering and being unable to eat came from the tour's director, Kenny Ortega, and production John "Bugzee" Hougdahl. Hougdahl said Jackson's ability to perform had diminished over the previous two months in an email sent June 19, 2009. Phillips said he expected Jackson to rehearse, but it was not something he was contractually obligated to do. He has denied that AEG hired Conrad Murray, the former cardiologist convicted of involuntary manslaughter after administering a lethal dose of the anesthetic propofol. Murray seemed competent, Phillips said, although he acknowledged they did not discuss in detail treatments the physician was giving Jackson. (AP)

Phillips said he thought the emails Ortega sent were a little judgmental, since they had not had the meeting to find out what was going on. Phillips explained he also had great relationship with MJ and Ortega thought if the exec was around they could resolve any issues that arose. "Michael and Kenny agreed to resume rehearsals on June 23," Phillips said.

Phillips said he watched the rehearsals on 23 and 24. "How do you describe the best entertainer in the world? I had goose bumps, it was fantastic!" Phillips described the rehearsals. Phillips said the three execs looked like three babies, with goose bumps. "It was phenomenal!" "I thought he did an incredible job," Phillips described, saying there was no reason to be concerned anymore with the trouble at the front.

Phillips spoke with MJ on 24th, asked how he was. Putnam: Did he lose his ability to do 360s? Phillips: Considered he did multiple 360s, no. He, Kenny and Travis had a communal hug, went back to dressing room to get ready to leave, Phillips said. "Frank DiLeo and I were standing outside the dressing room waiting for MJ," Phillips recalled. "You've gotten me this far, I can take it from here. I got this," MJ told Phillips. "It felt like a million dollars," Phillips explained.

Phillips became emotional Thursday when he described Jackson's death, with tears appearing to well up in his eyes before his attorney quickly moved on to other topics. (AP)

"I was totally shocked," Phillips said about MJ's passing hours later. Phillips last spoke with MJ around midnight. "Ortega was elated with rehearsal, it was his work and MJ's work coming alive on stage" Phillips testified. "He knew we were over the hump."

Phillips said he didn't see MJ in the hospital, only saw the gurney he was on behind the curtains in the emergency room. "After MJ passed away, I think Dr. Tohme was standing next to me," Phillips recalled. Putnam: Did you talk to Dr. Murray? Phillips: Yes, he was hysterical, he was crying, I tried to calm him down, but there was no conversation."I was in the hallway with Frank DiLeo and the head nurse came out," Phillips described. "Nurse said ' I'm sorry to tell you Mr. Jackson's passed away,'" an emotional Phillips recalled. "Frank collapsed," Phillips said, holding back tears. "I had to grab him. We were devastated."

Phillips said Thursday that his company doesn't have a policy for dealing with artists who are the subject of articles that state or suggest they have a substance abuse problem. “We're not judgmental like that," Phillips said. He later added, "You can't give up on people—that's not our job. " (AP)

"Being an artist means you have to reinvent yourself all the time," Phillips explained. "You can't give up on people, that's not our job." Phillips said when they make a deal with an artist, they are not part of their inner circle, they don't control what they do after rehearsal

Phillips said he knew Dr. Arnold Klein was a famous dermatologist, he had gone to him many years ago. Phillips: I had a concern the way Michael seemed that day (when he came back from Dr. Klein), but never saw him like that again. "He had cosmetic work and had vitiligo," Phillips said. It seemed normal for MJ to go to a dermatologist prior to touring. Phillips said he asked Dr. Murray whether he knew MJ was seeing Dr. Klein for some type of treatment. Dr. Murray responded he was aware. As to email Phillips wrote that Dr Klein was shooting MJ up, Phillips said MJ's manager asked for a million dollar advance to pay MJ's bills. One of the bills, Phillips said, was from Dr. Klein for $48,000 for restyling, Botox and dozens of things that said IM, IM, IM. Phillip said he didn't know what IM meant, but MJ's manager said it was intramuscular, meaning injections.

"I didn't know what Propofol was at the time," Phillips explained. All Phillips knew about Propofol was when he was administered it during a colonoscopy. He learned from media MJ died of Propofol overdose.

Putnam: AEG Live make a fortune after MJ's death? Phillips: No

No more questions from AEG attorney.

Jackson re-direct

Panish asked Phillips if the exec used derogatory terms to refer to Mrs. Jackson, like the B word. He said no.

Panish referred back to the meeting at the Polo Lounge between Randy Phillips and Dr. Tohme. Phillips and Panish argued about the fact that Phillips said Panish was following him around with photographers. Phillips said it was Panish who told him that, and Panish replied he never said it. Panish: Did you point to me and accused me of following you at the Polo Lounge? Phillips: Yes, I speculated, yes, yes. Panish: You will say anything, won't you? Phillips: That's outrageous! Panish asked if Phillips thought he was still following him. He responded he didn't know, he's not sure what Panish is capable of.

 

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Jacksons vs AEG - Day 30 – June 14 2013 – Summary

Katherine Jackson was in court.

Randy Phillips Testimony

Jackson redirect

Panish started out by asking Phillips about his meeting with Jackson’s ex-manager, Tohme Tohme, at the Polo Lounge in Beverly Hills. Phillips denied calling Katherine Jackson anything derogatory during the meeting. He also denied he called Jackson a “freak.” (AP)

Phillips denied again using derogatory terms to refer to Mrs. Jackson while meeting with Dr. Tohme at Polo Lounge on May 4th of this year. (ABC7) Phillips also denied that he discussed the Jackson vs AEG Live case with Tohme, but says other people may have. Lawyers were at the meeting. (AP)

Panish then moved into questioning about Phillips’ conversation with Brenda Richie. He testified about this earlier this week. Phillips said Brenda Richie told him she had been talking to Jackson (through a medium) and the singer told her not to blame Conrad Murray. Panish showed jury Phillips’ deposition testimony, in which he didn’t mention Brenda Richie’s statements. The questioning about Richie statements is one of the areas Panish used this morning to try to show Phillips’ testimony has evolved. (AP)

The back-and-forth between Phillips and Panish has been very pointed, tense this morning. Judge has had to intervene a couple times. For instance, at one point Panish asked Phillips, “Are you bored with this?” Phillips: “No, you’re very interesting.” (AP)

Panish mentioned that Phillips had testified a lot about conversations with Jackson, Frank Dileo, and attorney Peter Lopez. Panish asked what those three had in common. Phillips said it was a rhetorical question. “They all passed away.” (AP) Panish asked Phillips what MJ, Peter Lopez and Frank DiLeo have in common. "They've all passed away," Phillips responded.(ABC7) The lawyer said none had given testimony in the case before dying. AEG lawyer objected as to Dileo, who gave sworn statement in another case (AP)

Panish spent a lot of the morning going over areas where he says Phillips changed his testimony. The lawyer played some of Phillips’ interview with Sky News a few days after Jackson’s death. Panish noted that Phillips didn’t mention in the interview that Jackson was responsible for Conrad Murray’s salary. (AP)

Panish: Are you aware of articles quoting you saying you hired Dr. Murray?
Phillips: I don't recall (ABC7)

Panish pressed asking if he had testified earlier in the week saying he was not aware of articles quoting him. It's been a long time the articles have been written, Phillips testified, saying he doesn't remember whether he gave any other interviews. Phillips: If articles were written from interview w/ Sky News it's possible, I just don't remember giving interview about AEG hiring Dr. Murray. Earlier, Phillips testified Michael Roth, AEG's PR person, set up interviews, so most likely he had talk with Roth about hiring Dr. Murray. "I don't remember, you have to show me the articles," Phillips explained when Panish asked if he gave other interviews says AEG hired Dr. Murray. (ABC7)

As to Dr. Murray hiring, Phillips said all he knew in beginning of June when they met at the Forum, there was no agreement with Dr. Murray. Phillips said 'he' didn't want to hire an American doctor due to the costs. "There were two issues: one was cost, the other was the ability to practice in the UK," Phillips explained. (ABC7)

Questioning then moved into Phillips’ testimony about his phone conversation with Conrad Murray on June 20, 2009. Panish was trying to show Phillips’ testimony changed about the call, that different answers were given at deposition, trial. At his deposition, Phillips initially said the call only lasted 2 to 3 minutes. He changed it later in depo, after meeting with his lawyer. The call was actually much longer, around 25 minutes, Phillips has since said.(AP)

Phillips testified he doesn't know whether his home number is unlisted or not. He said he rarely uses it due to cell phones. (ABC7)

Panish pressed Phillips about why his testimony changed so much. Questioned why he didn’t just say that he didn’t recall or remember. Panish said Phillips had said he didn’t recall ore remember details dozens of time during his deposition. Phillips said he clarified his answers as necessary. “We’re parsing words,” Phillips said. “It’s all we’ve been doing.” (AP)

Phillips was then asked about the “trouble at the Front” email and the assertion by production manager that MJ could do multiple 360 spins early in rehearsals, but “would fall on his ass” if he tried it on June 19, 2009. Phillips had been shown a long clip of a rehearsal of “Billie Jean” on Thursday. Jackson did several spins, but one spin at a time. The “Billie Jean” rehearsal footage in "This Is It" film was from June 5, 2009, Panish said. Panish showed a couple clips from earlier in Jackson’s career of him doing multiple, extremely fast 360 spins. The lawyer asked Phillips if there was any footage of Jackson doing multiple 360 spins during “This Is It” rehearsals. His answer was no. Phillips tried to make the point that all the “This Is It” footage was rehearsals, while one of the clips was a full-blown MJ performance. (AP)

Panish then asked Phillips if he saw Jackson perform consecutive spins in 2009. Considering the movie is a rehearsal and that’s a full-on performance at Madison Square Garden…no,” he said. (KCAL) Phillips said he believed Jackson was holding back because it was a rehearsal, not a "full-on" performance. (NYDailyNews)

The exec explained again he felt very confused, Dr. Murray was saying MJ was fine, but emails from Ortega and Hougdahl said it differently. Dr. Murray reassured Phillips on June 20th that MJ was fine, the doctor wasn't sure what was going on the day before, perhaps the flu. (ABC7)

Panish asked Phillips about his testimony that Jackson looked good on June 20, 2009, just hours after he’d been sent home from rehearsal. The lawyer showed Phillips a picture of Jackson taken on June 19th from a costume fitting. Jackson was in a T-shirt, looked thin. Phillips said of Jackson on June 20th: “He wasn’t dressed in a T-shirt, he looked great.” Phillips said he had no idea what changed from previous day about Jackson's appearance. (He didn't see him on June 19th) (AP)

Panish attempted again to "impeach" the witness, which is a legal technique to put in question his credibility. "He looked really good," Phillips said about MJ rehearsals on June 23 and 24. "But you said it was fantastic," Panish inquired. Phillips said he was as confused as anyone, since the MJ he expected to see after the chain of emails was very differently from what he saw. "The MJ sitting in that living room looked great," Philips recalled. Panish showed pic of MJ on Jun 19th wearing t-shirt looking very skinny. The attorney asked if that MJ looked really good in Phillips's opinion. Phillips explained that his description of MJ looking really good was from what he saw on June 23. Phillips recalled that MJ didn't look like the picture from the 19th, the day he went home sick. On the 23rd, Phillips said MJ was not wearing t-shirt, had hair and makeup done, looked great. (ABC7)

On June 19, after a particularly troubling day of rehearsal, tour director Kenny Ortega sent Phillips an email in which he said Jackson was "trembling, rambling, obsessing" and needed a mental health evaluation. A photo taken during a costume fitting that day shows a gaunt Jackson in a white T-shirt. A meeting with Jackson, Ortega, Phillips and Murray was held at the singer's Carolwood Drive house the next day. Phillips testified Jackson "looked really good." Panish asked him how Jackson could improve so quickly. "I was as confused as anybody because the Michael Jackson I saw, the Michael Jackson sitting in that living room ... looked great." What changed in 12 hours? Panish asked. "I have no idea," Phillips replied. (LAtimes)

Panish then wanted to ask Phillips about a voicemail that Jackson’s manager Frank Dileo left for Conrad Murray on morning of June 20th. The message was played during Murray’s criminal trial. In it, Dileo is heard saying that tests need to be taken on Jackson. Panish wanting to play the message for this jury prompted a recess during which the attorneys argued. Jury left the courtroom. Plaintiff’s attorneys said it should be played because Phillips was asked whether Dileo called Murray. AEG attorneys argued it was improper. Katherine Jackson’s team also said it should be played because Phillips could verify it was Dileo’s voice on the call. AEG attorney Jessica Stebbins Bina however said it would lead jurors to derive an “improper inference.” The judge wouldn’t allow the Frank Dileo message to be played for the jury. Panish was frustrated by the judge’s ruling. He threw his left arm against his leg and it sounded like he cursed under his breath. (AP)

After the break, Panish told Phillips, “I’m going to try to finish if you try to answer” the questions. (AP)
Panish: I want to finish, you answer the questions, ok?
Phillips: We got a deal (ABC7)

It wasn’t long before Phillips made some allusion to what his attorneys told him, prompting a sidebar. When the lawyers returned, Judge Yvette Palazuelos told Phillips to testify about “substance” of conversations with his lawyers. Palazuelos said if he had a doubt, Phillips should ask her. “I can talk to you,” he responded. (AP)

Phillips was asked whether he mediated a dispute between Jackson’s managers Tohme Tohme and Frank Dileo. Phillips said no. The executive said he urged them to meet for breakfast or some other meal, but it wasn’t his role to make sure they got along. (AP)

Phillips was then asked about whether there was an ethical wall involved in AEG Live’s dealings with Jackson. Phillips had called this
concept a Chinese wall, but the judge told everyone to call it an ethical wall instead. The executive said he understood it to be an arrangement so there wasn’t an unfair advantage for one side in certain arrangements. Panish: “If somebody’s on both sides of a deal it can potentially be a conflict of interest.” Phillips said it depends. “It can be, it isn’t always” a conflict of interest, Phillips said. (AP)
Panish asked the "Chinese Wall" comment Phillips made on the stand if it meant he was mediating conflicts. Phillips said it was ethical wall. "I didn't do Travis', but I was involved in material terms of Kenny's deal," Phillips said. (ABC7)

The questions related to Tohme’s $100k per month agreement with AEG Live, which Jackson also signed. Phillips said he felt there was an ethical wall in place between AEG Live and Tohme when that deal was made. Important to note, the payment required Tohme to assist in getting cancellation insurance for “This Is It” by a certain time. The deadline passed, so AEG Live never paid Tohme Tohme the $100k a month. (AP)

Panish: Was there an ethical wall between AEG Live and Dr. Tohme?
Phillips: I felt that it was (ABC7)

Panish questioned whether the ethical wall in the Tohme deal was memorialized in writing. Phillips said that’s not the way it works.
“It’s about behavior. It’s not a real wall,” Phillips told Panish about the concept of an ethical wall. There was lots of back and forth on the ethical wall issue, Phillips maintained it was a code of behavior, not something that’s written down (AP)

Panish asked if Phillips had the "ethical wall" in writing. "I don't know those things are in writing, it's figure of speech," Phillips said. The exec said the ethical wall is not set up. "It's about behavior, it's not a real wall, it's about behavior," Phillips explained. (ABC7)

Panish: You don't know how to set up one?
Phillips: I've never seen one (ethical wall) set up formally (ABC7)

"To me it's how you behave, you behave ethically with each other" Phillips described saying the ethical wall existed between AEG Live and MJ (ABC7)

Panish: How do AEG employees know about ethical wall?
Phillips: Frankly, I believe interests merge after deal is struck between 2 parties. (ABC7)

Phillips explained that ethical wall is not something that's build, tangible, or in a document, but it's about the behavior of the parties. (ABC7)

Panish: Did you tell Mr. Gongaware there was an ethical wall?
Phillips: It's not something you discuss, it's how you behave (ABC7)

Panish asked about potential conflict of interest w/ AEG and Dr Tohme. "MJ directed us to do that agreement and he signed it," Phillips said. Panish asked if there was doc saying there's a potential conflict of interest with AEG Live hiring Dr. Tohme to be MJ's personal manager. "Mr. Panish, it's the artist who directed us, I didn't know who Dr. Tohme was," Phillips responded. (ABC7)

Panish: Did you advise in writing potential conflict of interest?
Phillips: No
Panish: Did the artist sign a release of potential conflict of interest?
Phillips: The artist may have created the conflict, so no (ABC7)

Phillips also repeated that Jackson requested the Tohme agreement. “The artist may have created the conflict, too,” he said.(AP)

Panish asked Phillips about many the artists he’s mentioned working with, including George Strait, Bon Jovi,Britney Spears. Panish: “How many of those artists had personal managers that had a contract directly with AEG Live.” Phillips: “Probably none of them.” Panish then asked how many of the artists Phillips mentioned had doctors hired by AEG Live for them. “None,” the executive replied. (AP)

Panish then asked Phillips about his assertion that Jackson changed managers like some people change socks. The lawyer asked how many times Phillips changed his socks during the day. 2 to 3 times, he replied, if he went for a workout. (AP) About 'changing the socks' comment, Panish asked Phillips how many times a day he changes his socks. He said 2-3. Panish asked Phillips how many managers MJ had from 2007 until his death. "Dr. Tohme initiated the deal," Phillips said, then Frank DiLeo, a period of time Arpac Hussain, then, subject to dispute, Leonard Rowe. Panish asked if DiLeo and Tohme were the main managers. Phillips agreed but said that wasn't what Panish asked him. Phillips added Raymone Bain and Peter Lopez as MJ's managers. "Lopez did a Pepsi deal for MJ as his manager," Phillips explained. (ABC7) He then listed four people who were designated as Jackson managers during the “This Is It” period. (AP)

"I don't know who our attorneys sent the contract to, so I can't say," Phillips said about emailing Dr. Murray's contract. (ABC7) Panish asked how many of the managers Phillips sent Conrad Murray’s contract to. More back-and-forth on that issue, without a clear answer. (AP)

As to creating AEG Live: "I absolutely did, I invented the company based on business plan I created and I also named it," Phillips testified. (ABC7)

Panish: You said whomever MJ had as his own manager was his own business, correct?
Phillips: Correct (ABC7)

Phillips explained when he received email from Kathy Jorrie questioning Dr. Tohme he forwarded it to Peter Lopez, MJ's attorney at the time. (ABC7)

There was some more discussion of Murray and Phillips’ assertion that he thought he was successful because he asked for $5 million. Panish asked if it seemed odd that Murray agreed to take the job for less -- a $150k a month fee. “That wasn’t unreasonable because that’s what doctors make,” Phillips responded. He said he had a general idea of what doctors earn. (AP)

Panish inquired about the fact that Phillips thought Dr. Murray asking for $5 million as payment automatically made him a good doctor.
Panish: If he wanted $10 million, he would be more successful?
Phillips: Absolutely true
Panish: For $20 million the most successful doctor around?
Phillips: Correct
"I wasn't alarmed by the number because it was Michael's doctor and Michael was paying for it," Phillips explained. (ABC7)

Phillips said John Branca had been hired by MJ on June 18th, two days prior to the 20th meeting. Panish: Did you ever tell Branca you brought the doctor to the fold? Phillips: I think there was some logical communication, otherwise they would've been hanging. Regarding the email John Branca asked if MJ's problem was related to substance abuse, Phillips said he didn't know one way or the other. (ABC7)

AEG recross

Panish concluded his questioning. Putnam was back at it. Phillips joked: Your honor, is this really over after this? Courtroom laughed. (ABC7)

Phillips reiterated that AEG never paid Dr. Tohme because some conditions of his contract were not fulfilled. (ABC7)

Putnam: Did Dr. Tohme have anything to do with Dr. Murray?
Phillips: None whatsoever that I know of (ABC7)

Putnam: Are you aware of any articles were you are quoting saying we hire him (Dr. Murray)?
Phillips: No (ABC7)

Regarding the video shown yesterday of Mr. Jackson's spinning, Phillips testified it was production rehearsal, not even full dance rehearsal. Phillips said MJ did 360s spins, and he was 50 years old. The other video shown to the jury yesterday was MJ performing in the early 80s. (ABC7) Defense lawyer Marvin Putnam took over and asked a few questions. Some of the main ones related to Jackson’s 360 spins. Putnam asked Phillips when the two vids Panish showed him were shot. Phillips said one was ‘01 and other one looked like it was from the 80s. Putnam asked Phillips how old Jackson was when he died. The singer was 50, and was only doing a rehearsal in ‘09, Phillips said. (AP)

Jackson redirect

Then it was Panish's turn again.

Phillips: You are back?
Panish: Just a couple of questions
Phillips: I'm gonna miss you
Everyone laughed (ABC7)

Phillips said MJ didn't do multiple 360s spins that he remembers, but he didn't know if the choreography called for it. Phillips said he's not a choreographer. "I'm flat footed, there's a reason I'm in this side of the business." Phillips said if he tried a 360 spin he'd be on the jury's lap. "I know what a 360 is, you don't need to be a choreographer to know that," Phillips explained. (ABC7)

Panish got another few questions and asked again about the 360 spins. He questioned Phillips’ knowledge of choreography. “I’m flat footed,” Phillips replied. “There’s a reason I’m on this side of the business.” Continuing the self-deprecation, he added he couldn’t do a 360 spin. “If I tried, I’d be in the jury’s lap.” (AP)

Panish: Who's more competent to judge choreography you or Hougdahl?
Phillips: Could be me since he hadn't worked in pop production before (ABC7)

Phillips was finally excused, subject to recall.

 

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Jacksons vs AEG - Day 31 – June 17 2013 – Summary

Jackson family was not in court

David Berman Testimony

David Berman lasted all day in the stand. William Bloss, attorney for the Jacksons, did the questioning. Sabrina Strong for AEG crossed. (ABC7)

Jackson direct

Berman has been an executive in the music industry for 45 years. He has BA in Business Admin from University of Michigan and JD from Harvard. Berman represented artists, negotiated management agreements, worked with Beach Boys Temptations, A&M records, 20th Century Fox, the Doors. Some of Berman's work included contracts. He went to Warner Brothers, worked with Madonna, Fleetwood Mac, Prince. Berman said he did acquisitions with other record companies. He explained the function of music lawyer is the "deal." Berman explained 60 to 70% of his practice involved contracts. He became president of Capitol Records, supervised running the record company. Berman worked with Bonnie Raittt, Beastie Boys, Queen, Paul McCartney; left Capitol Records in Sept 89; returned to law firm for the year. Berman then went to Geffen Records as senior executive in charge of business affairs. Became general counsel and supervised business affairs. Berman worked with Guns and Roses, Eagles, Peter Gabriel. In Feb 1998 went to Walt Disney to be in charge of Buena Vista Music group. (ABC7)

Berman is an attorney and longtime recording executive. He’s been in the business since 1969. He started out as an attorney. In 1976, he left his law firm and went to work as a vice president for Warner Bros. Records. Eventually promoted to Senior Vice President. In 1987, he left Warner Bros. and eventually went to work as the president for Capitol Records. He left Capitol Records in 1990, and went back to his old firm, Mitchell Silberberg & Knupp, for about a year. After that, Berman went to Geffen Records, where he was general counsel and head of business affairs. In the late 1990s, Berman left Geffen for Buena Vista Music Group, which is basically the music division for Disney, he told jury.(AP)

Berman retired in 2001 and became an expert witness. He said he’s testified in about 38 cases, 60% of times for plaintiffs. (AP) Berman has been engaged 38 times to testify in court as an expert witness, 60% of times for plaintiffs, 40% defendants. Berman said he was contacted by plaintiffs attorneys in December of last year and a meeting was set up. (ABC7)

Bloss: What were you provided by attorneys?
Berman: An enormous amount of written material (ABC7)

Berman said he reviewed 26 depositions, declarations, extraordinary amount of email, pleadings, all that. Bloss asked if getting paid $500/hr is standard amount. Berman said he knows some experts who charge more, others less. (ABC7) Berman said he’s reviewed an “enormous amount of written materials.” They included 26 depositions. He’s being paid $500/hour for his work. (AP)

AEG was major promoter, Berman said, explaining concert promoter promotes or markets the concert, secure the venue, ticket sales, tour merchandise. The tour producer, Berman said, is in charge of physical production of the show, the staging, the lighting, the dancing, the choreography. (ABC7)

Bloss: Have you been a concert promoter or producer?
Bernam: No (ABC7)

Berman: The essential deal involves the relationship with the artist, what does a concert entity do for, to and with the artist. "The customer for concert promoter is not the ticket buyer, it is the artist," Berman explained. (ABC7)

Berman said he believed that music companies owe a higher obligation to artists than to music buyers or concert goers and, in this instance, AEG failed Jackson.(AP)

Berman testified he believes AEG Live bringing Conrad Murray into “This Is It” tour was a conflict of interest. He said he believes the issues in this case relate to artist relations, not the intricacies of promoting a tour. Berman said he believes music industry companies should treat artists like their customers, placing their importance higher than customers. Berman: “Without the artist, you don’t have a record to sell.” (AP)

Asked whether it was appropriate for AEG Live to attempt to hire a doctor on Jackson's behalf, Berman responded, "I believe that it's highly inappropriate. It is highly unusual."(AP)

Bloss: Do you have opinion if tour producer should hire physician for the artist?
Berman: I believe it's entire inappropriate highly unusual (ABc7)

"I've never done it, I've never heard it being done" Berman said about hiring doctor "It's my understanding until this time AEG hadn't done". "It creats an inherent conflict of interest," Berman opined. "The physician has obligation to the person treating and the entity paying him". "It is a more egregioius conflict given the factors in this case," Berman expressed. (ABC7)

Berman said he had never heard of a music company hiring a doctor on behalf of an artist. He called it “highly unusual.” He said that the company paying the doctor “creates an inherent conflict of interest on the part of the physician.” Berman: “The physician has dual obligations to the patient of course and to the entity that his engaging” him or her. (AP)

Bloss showed Berman the 'Trouble at the Front' email Ortega sent to Phillips saying he didn't think MJ was ready, his physical weakening. "The response to me is very telling" Berman explained, saying Phillips was dismissive when he responded lets not become amateur psychiatrist. Phillips recognized the potential of the doctor not being ethical or unbiased, Berman highlighted. "It is my understanding AEG never did anything to check out Dr. Murray," Berman testified, "It shows they were aware of potential conflict (ABC7)

Plantiff’s attorney Bill Bloss showed Berman several emails the jury has seen, including messages traded by Randy Phillips and Kenny Ortega. He said one of the emails Phillips sent to Ortega seemed dismissive of the tour director’s concerns about Jackson’s health. (AP)

Bloss: Did you become involved in retaining a physician for any entity?
Berman: No
Bloss: Did you ever hear of a music company retaining a physician for an artist whether it was at artist's request or not?
Berman: No
Bloss: Would it be a reasonable practice?
Berman: No
WB: How could conflict be avoided?
DB: By hiring a doctor with no relationship to AEG (ABC7)

Defendants objected saying Berman has never been a producer, a tour manager or worked for a producer or manager. (ABC7)

Bloss: What is personal manager?
Berman: A personal manager is involved in every aspect of the artist's career and the artist's life (ABC7)

Berman said the fact Dr. Murray wanted $5 million to be engaged as MJ's physician is some kind of red flag, even though it was turned down. Berman: Even amount of $150k/month, as agreed, is an exorbitant amount. It's more money than any individual in the tour was getting. The expert said AEG was aware of another physician, Dr. Finkelstein, had been willing to take the position as MJ's doctor for $40k a month. Berman: If there was an alternative to Dr. Murray at a fraction of the price, it seems to me that information should've been passed on to MJ (ABC7)

He said he was troubled by the fact that another doctor had quoted a $10k per week price to care for Jackson on the tour. Berman said information about the other doctor should have been turned over to Jackson, but it wasn’t. (AP)

There were a lot of objections by AEG Live attorneys to Berman’s testimony and expertise. This prompted a lengthy sidebar in the morning. Ultimately, Berman was able to testify that he thought AEG Live’s involvement in negotiating Murray’s contract was an ethical conflict (AP).

Berman said he understands that Mr. Gongaware was the one dealing with Dr. Murray's hiring on behalf of AEG Live. Berman expressed AEG was in the process of negotiating and securing an agreement between themselves and Dr. Murray to be MJ's physician. Bloss showed the email where Paul Gongaware wrote "Done at $150k a month, per MJ." "It's indicative of fact that agreement had been reached on behalf of AEG Live that Dr. Murray," Berman explained. Berman said he didn't think this email alone proves AEG hired Dr. Murray. (ABC7)

Judge: to the jury, YOU will decide whether Dr. Murray was hired. All the testimony by hiring is made on assumption he was hired (or not) (ABC7)

Berman opined that emails between AEG and Dr. Murray offered more details of the terms of the engagement between AEG Live and Dr. Murray. Berman said it was a three party agreement between AEG Live, Dr. Murray and MJ. Berman said emails about the agreement were never sent to MJ. Berman explained it is as if one party was being denied participation in the bind in the terms of the agreement. (ABC7)

Bloss showed Berman a tour budget dated May 16, 2009. Berman explained it included $300k for medical management. Berman said the amount on budget is consistent with $150k for Dr. Murray for the months of May and June, 2009. (ABC7)

Dr. Murray acknowledged he's in agreement with terms of May 8th email, Berman explained, saying he was performing services that day already. Berman noted Dr. Murray wrote "I have performed and continue to fulfill my services to the client in good faith" and "as per our agreement" (ABC7)

"I've never heard of it and, to my knowledge, AEG had not done it before," Berman said about retaining a doctor. "I think an artist is perfectly entitled to engage any physician he chooses," Berman said. (ABC7)

Berman testified it is not unusual for an artist to hire and bring his own doctor on tour. However, Berman opined that AEG inserted themselves in the middle of the deal as an attempt to be in position to control MJ's doctor. (ABC7)

Bloss: May agreements be oral in your industry?
Berman: Of course, it's a common occurrence (ABC7)

Berman: agreements are commenced and performed by both parties by oral agreement and subsequently put in writing. It's not uncommon at all. (ABC7)

Bloss: When does the agreement start?
Berman: Generally speaking, when one party has commenced performing under the oral agreement (ABC7)

Berman said it is not unusual in the entertainment business at all to amend contracts without putting the changes in writing. For instance, Berman said MJ's agreement called for 31 shows, it was amended to 50; tour budget was $7.5 million, increased to $30 million. (ABC7) It is common that parties in the music industry reach oral agreements, then put the terms into writing, Berman told jurors. (AP)

David Berman told jurors hearing a negligent hiring lawsuit against concert promoter AEG Live LLC that the company should not have negotiated with Jackson's physician without notifying the singer's representatives of the discussion. Berman said there were no indications that Murray’s draft contract was sent to Michael Jackson’s representatives, which should have happened . (AP)

Berman said it's common practice for outside counsel, Kathy Jorrie in this case, to send agreement they're drafting to in house counsel. Berman: The email shows that nobody from MJ's camp received copy of the draft agreement AEG Live was putting together for Dr. Murray. Berman thinks it's unreasonable and inappropriate not to include one of the three parties of the agreement in the discussions of the deal. Berman said he understands Dennis Hawk, Mr. Branca and Mr. Katz were MJ's attorneys at this point in time. (ABC7)

Bloss showed email where Ms. Jorrie referred to as final contract between AEG and Dr. Murray. "As far as AEG is concerned, the contract is concluded and ready for execution," Berman explained the email meant in his opinion. (ABC7)

Berman said his understanding is that AEG Live had already secured housing in London for Dr. Murray and was included in the UK party tour, Berman said that in addition to insurance, AEG requested that Dr. Murray be in control of MJ's rehearsal schedule. Berman: If contract terminated then agreement terminated with Conrad Murray, giving Dr. Murray even greater conflict. "He was in dire straits, he did need this gig. He ran the risk of losing further compensation," Berman opined. Gongaware said "We want to remind Dr Murray that it's AEG, not MJ, who is paying his salary. We want him 2 understand what's expected of him"."It is indicatative of the fact that they want to control the services of Dr. Murray," Berman opined. (ABC7)

AEG Live’s ability to end Murray’s contract if the tour was canceled increased the conflict of interest, Berman said. “He was in financial dire straits,” Berman said. “He did need this gig.” (This refers to Randy Phillips email calling Murray successful.) (AP)

Berman said there would have been nothing inappropriate if Michael Jackson hired his own doctor, but AEG’s involvement made it inappropriate (AP).

Bloss: If Dr. Murray had been hired by MJ would this be necessary?
Berman: It would not have been factually accurate (ABC7)

After the lunch break, plaintiff’s attorney Bill Bloss asked Berman a few questions before wrapping up his examination. He started off by showing a copy of Conrad Murray’s “Independent Contractor Agreement.” Berman keyed in on a couple areas. Berman was asked about a section where Murray was required to ensure that his services would be “administered professionally”. “Well, it’s a pretty glaring example of why AEG inappropriateness,” Berman said. He said they had no experience supervising doctors. Berman’s point was that AEG wasn’t qualified to evaluate Dr. Murray’s care of Jackson. They could assess lighting, sound crew, but not a doctor (AP).

Berman said AEG doesn't have experience supervising physicians. "That's not their area of expertise." The chain of email Trouble at the Front shows an attempt to exercise some degree of control, Berman said. "This is the first time I'm aware of them reaching out to various MJ advisors, filling them in with the problem they now see," Berman said. Mr. Branca immediately responds saying he has a person he thinks can help, Berman said. AEG rejects the proposition regarding the person Mr. Branca suggested and never answered the question of substance abuse, Berman opined. (ABC7)

Berman: It indicates that they were concerned and the email from Gongaware to Phillips appears to be attempt to exercise control. "Take the doctor with you" mention is yet another attempt to control Dr. Murray, Berman said. (ABC7)

Berman: They don't know what the problem is, they don't know Dr. Murray is the right doctor, they just don't know what the problem is (ABC7)

Bloss asked if AEG should've entered into agreement w/ physician. Berman said no, they have no expertise or experience supervising a doctor (ABC7)

AEG cross

Berman said he's inactive member of the CA Bar for 10 years, pay dues but can't practice law until taking continuing education. Strong asked if the reason he left Capitol Records was because he was fired. "I demanded to be fired, they accepted my request" Berman said. (ABC7) She quickly asked Berman about him being fired from Capitol Records. He said he demanded to be fired. (AP)

Strong: Your primary job is working as expert witness since 2001, right?
Berman: Primary job is essentially inaccurate (ABC7)

Berman has been working with disputes in the industry for about 11 years. As expert witness, he's paid by whomever hires him. Berman gets $500/hour as payment, received about $25,000 from plaintiffs, $5,000 from defendants from when they deposed him. That makes about 60 hours of work on this case, Berman said, recalling about six meeting with attorneys for the plaintiffs. (ABC7)

Strong then keyed in on Berman’s work as an expert witness. She broke down his payments for the case. Berman has received $25,000 from the plaintiffs, and $5,000 from the defense. Defense had to pay him for his deposition, he said. He estimated he spent about 60 hours preparing his opinion on the Jackson vs AEG Live case so far. (AP)

Strong asked if Berman has been disqualified previously from testifying. He said the judge disqualified the methodology he used. (ABC7)

Strong: Did you testify outside the area of your expertise?
Berman: No, it had to do with putting a value on starting record label (ABC7)

Berman explained he used real life experience, based value on quality, knowledge and expertise but judge wanted academic and economic method. (ABC7)

AEG Live is primarily concert promoter, Berman explained. (ABC7) Strong noted that Berman hadn’t worked as a concert promoter or producer, nor had he worked on a tour before. (AP)

Berman never worked with MJ in a tour. "I was at a party once that he attended, but I was not introduced to him," Berman said. (ABC7)

Strong: You agree here that MJ chose Dr. Murray?
Berman: That's my understanding (ABC7)

Strong asked if MJ was the one paying Dr. Murray. Berman said he disagrees with it. Strong asked if Berman thinks it matters who Dr. Murray believes hired him. Berman responded the critical factor with Dr. Murray regarding conflict is knowing in fact that he was to be compensated by AEG and not MJ. Berman: AEG Live had the ability to terminate the agreement with Dr. Murray should the concert be postponed. "I think Dr. Murray had the right to be concerned about the issue," Berman testified. "It was not his best interest to harm MJ, but his interest was also the tour didn't get canceled or postponed," Berman said about Dr. Murray (ABC7)

Strong: Dr. Murray was under pressure because he might lose his job?
Berman: I feel he would be concerned about that, yes (ABC7)

Strong asked Berman if artists have the ability to not perform. He replied they have physical ability, but legal would be breach of contract. (ABC7)

The lawyer asked Berman what would have happened to Murray if Michael Jackson canceled the tour. He said he didn’t know. (AP)

Strong: It wouldn't matter who canceled the tour, correct?
Berman: There were elements that Dr. Murray had no control whatsoever (ABC7)

Berman opined that if the tour was canceled, it's fair to say that AEG would not want to keep Dr. Murray under contract. "I don't know what'd have happened with Dr. Murray if the show were canceled, I don't have any way of knowing," Berman said. (ABC7).

Berman said he's aware Dr. Murray performed services for MJ, and maybe for his children, but doesn't know the extent of services. (ABC7)

"Personal manager in CA cannot perform the functions of a booking agent; personal manager cannot perform function of attorney," Berman said (ABC7)

Berman said he thinks he knows enough to say that it is not unusual for masseuses to be brought along in a tour. (ABC7)

Strong asked if Berman knows that AEG Live negotiated contract with Karen Faye, make up artist. He said yes, and he had no problem with it. Strong: Faye could've cause skin damage on MJ's face? ((One of the jurors looked at Strong very puzzled!)) Berman: Anyone could've hurt MJ (ABC7)

Berman said it's his understanding that Dr. Murray was MJ's choice. He said he firmly believes producer should never hire doctor for artist. "It is extremely unusual, it goes beyond unusual," Berman opined. Strong rebutted: But you never produced a tour?
Berman: No (ABC7)

Berman said tour doctors are different from artist doctors. (ABC7)

Strong: You know The Stones tour with a doctor?
Berman: I know that Mr. Trell indicated that (ABC7)

"I know that AEG never hired a doctor to go on tour with an artist," Berman testified. Berman said is an unusual event for concert promoter to be the producer. "Producer shouldn't be engaging the services of doctor," Berman opined, "even if doctor has been treating artist/children for long time." (ABC7)

"The contract is between AEG Live and Dr. Murray," Berman said, adding that MJ is a third party beneficiary. Strong showed Berman Dr. Murray's Contract Agreement, "Perform the services reasonably requested by Producer." Strong said it was a mistake. (ABC7)

"Producer did request Dr. Murray to perform services," Berman said. Shawn Trell, in the audience, shook his head no. (ABC7)

"MJ did not sign it," Berman said about Dr. Murray's contract. Neither AEG Live, Strong asked. That's correct, Berman answered. (ABC7)

Strong: How often do you pay $1.5 mil without a signed contract?
Berman: I have paid probably more than $1.5 mil without executed contract (ABC7)

Strong argued that Berman's contract must not have included provision saying it had to be fully executed prior to payment. (ABC7)

Berman testified increasing shows from 31 to 50 wasn't in writing, neither was production cost raised from $7.5 million to more than $30 million (ABC7).

Strong: This contract doesn't limit the spending to $7.5 million, correct?
Berman: Correct, I don't have a problem with oral agreements (ABC7)

"I know there are no written documents signed by MJ approving increase in production costs," Berman testified. "There's one document signed by quote representative that I doubt he was a representative," Berman expressed. (ABC7)

Strong asked if Berman were to work for plaintiffs for 80 hours at rate of $500/hour, he would make $40k/week. Berman responded: "With all due respect, I'm 69 years old, I'm not working 80 hours a week for anybody." Some jurors laughed. (ABC7)

Strong asked Berman if his testimony should not be believed because he's being paid by the plaintiffs. "My salary as an expert witness is well in line with other experts," Berman responded, adding he knows several experts who charge much more. (ABC7)

Strong inquired if Berman was expert in doctor's salaries. "I'm not an expert but I'm aware of another doctor willing to be paid $40k/month". Strong: Do you know doctors make millions a year? Berman: I know my does (ABC7)

Strong also challenged Berman on his contention that Murray would have been the highest-paid worker on the “This Is It” tour. She said Kenny Ortega would have been paid $1m for about five months of work on the tour. He said he didn’t recall details of Ortega’s deal (AP).

Strong asked if Berman knew how much Kenny Ortega was going to make in the tour to say Dr. Murray was getting more money. "The red flag is $150,000 a month compared with another doctor asking $40,000," Berman explained. "It was not a problem that the doctor was going to make more, it's an indicative something is out of whack," Berman testified. (ABC7)

Strong asked Berman about the request for MJ's medical records for insurance purposes. He said it would benefit both AEG and MJ. (ABC7)

Strong asked if Berman was concerned MJ's reps were kept out of the loop. "To the best of my understanding that's what happened" Berman said. "I'm aware that Mr. DiLeo was aware of Dr. Murray, but don't know whether he was involved in the negotiation of the contract," Berman opined (ABC7) Berman said he felt it was “extremely unusual” that Murray’s contracts would not have been sent to Jackson’s representatives. (AP)

Strong then displayed a statement signed by Frank Dileo in July 2009 that stated he was aware of negotiations with Murray. Dileo’s statement indicated that AEG Live CEO Randy Phillips objected to hiring Murray, but Jackson wanted him. Berman said the statement didn’t deal with the issue that Murray’s contract wasn’t sent to Jackson reps, according to emails shown in court. (AP)

Berman said Brigitte Seagal was an attorney in the UK working on housing arrangements. He doesn't know if she had any relation with MJ. (ABC7)

Berman said that as President at Capitol Records, he was involved in hiring heads of departments, senior executives. Strong: You never checked financial background of executives you hired in the music industry? Berman: To the extent it would've been done, it was at the human resources level. Berman said he personally never checked financial background of anyone because it would not have reach his level it would've been done at Human Resources. Strong played Berman's depo where he said he couldn't recall any credit check being done (ABC7) Strong asked Berman whether he’d ever looked into the finances of executives he hired. He said if it happened, HR did the checks. (AP)

Jackson redirect

Berman said MJ's contract required any modification to be done in writing. But addition of shows, budget increase was never written anywhere. (ABC7) Bloss asked Berman whether he was aware if there was a document authorizing 50 shows for “This Is It.” “Apparently not,” he said. (AP)

Bloss: Did anybody considered that to be a problem?
Berman: Apparently not (ABC7)

As to the firing of Berman from Capitol Records he explained he was hired by chief executive whom he had immense respect, but ended up fired. However, Berman did not have same level of respect for the new global Chief Executive, he said. "It was pretty arrogant and naive of me," Berman said. "The word began to go around that the president was going to get fire." Berman said the morale was pretty bad for the company, no one wanted to sign with the company if the president was about to be booted. Berman explained he went to his immediate boss and demanded full support of termination. "Then I'm fired," Berman said, he insisted in getting fired, it was the only way to get paid off. If he quit, he would've gotten nothing. (ABC7) Berman was then asked about his firing from Capitol Records. He explained he was hired by one executive, but another exec took over. Berman said he didn’t have respect for the new executive. Berman said he asked to have the company either publicly support him, or fire him. (AP)

Berman said he believes the DiLeo letter was an attempt to get some MJ representative of some form to retroactively approve the budget. (ABC7) The expert was also asked whether he knew how the Dileo statement came about. Berman said he believed it was entered after Jackson’s death and in an attempt to recoup some costs of the “This Is It” production. (AP)

The purpose of this letter is to confirm that I'm appointing Frank DiLeo one of my new representatives & tour manager. Mr. DiLeo has my authorization to conduct business matters on my behalf only when instructed. Signed by MJ (ABC7)

Berman said it was a weird letter and inconsistent with DiLeo's declaration, which said he was MJ's rep since March 2009. (ABC7)

"I believe this document to be a written document confirming binding oral agreement," Berman said about Dr. Murray's contract. (ABC7)

AEG recross

Strong asked in re-cross if Berman was aware that MJ directed Randy Phillips to deal with Frank DiLeo on his behalf. He said no. As to DiLeo's letter dated May 2, 2009, Strong asked if Berman knows when DiLeo was hired. He said no. (ABC7)

 

[ivy]

Jacksons vs AEG - Day 32 – June 18 2013 – Summary

Katherine Jackson is in court.

Kai Chase testimony

Jackson direct

Attorney Deborah Chang is doing the questioning. (ABC7)

Chase said she's personal chef for the past 17 years. She currently works for Katherine Jackson and MJ's children Prince, Paris and Blanket. Chase worked for MJ while he was preparing for tour. She began working for him end of March, was let go in May and brought back in June 09. (ABC7)

Chase started culinary profession in a small culinary school, then worked as writer for Urban network magazine. Chase got her masters degree at Le Cordon Bleu Culinary Academy in Paris. She said she comes from family of artists, culinary is her art. Chase said famous chef Julia Child graduated from Le Cordon Bleu. After graduating, Chase opened her own catering company. She was always involved in the entertainment business. "My godfather was Redd Foxx," Chase said. Chase Clientele: President Barack Obama, Bernie Mack, Steve Harvey, John Sally, Maxine Waters, worked with Wolfgang Puck, Pamela Anderson. Chase worked in 2007 in an inauguration event for president Obama. "I got the gig because... I'm good," Chase laughed. Chase said Obama was pleased to see an young, African American woman doing well. Chase explained who Wolfgang Puck is, very famous chef who cooks at the Oscars and has TV shows. (ABC7) Chase gave her biography _ she was trained at Le Cordon Bleu in Paris and owned a catering company before becoming private chef. Plaintiff's attorney Deborah Chang showed jury several photos of Chase. One was outside Le Cordon Bleu, another was with President Obama. (AP)

Chang: Are you trained as nutritionist?
Chase: No, I'm not
Chase said she studied nutrition of foods, but does not have training as nutritionist. (ABC7)

Chase said she first interviewed with Jackson’s assistant, Michael Amir Williams. Then she went to the Jackson's mansion for 2nd interview. The 2nd interview was with Jackson’s children, Chase said. They described how they and their father liked to eat healthy, she said. Prince, Paris and Blanket were talking over each other, Chase recounted. By the end of the session, she had the chef job. (AP)

Chase recalled she received call from company called Culinary Staffing. The client is husband, wife, two kids, husband was a businessman. Chase was asked to send the resume in. She said she got call back within the hour saying client was very impressed with her qualifications. There was a meeting set up at Coffee Bean and Tea Leaf at the Grove in LA. Chase met with Michael Amir, who interviewed her extensively. Chase asked who the client was and Amir showed her MJ's company business card. "When he handed me the card, whoa!" Chase testified. (ABC7)

Chang: Where you excited?
Chase: Yes, I was (ABC7)

The second meeting happened at the Carolwood house. Michael Jackson was not present, the meeting was with MJ's children, Chase explained. Chase said Prince was 12 years old, Paris was about to turn 11 and Blanket was 9. "They were talking over each other, they very excited to meet me," Chase said. "They wanted to make sure I knew how to cook healthy food". Chase recalls the kids saying daddy likes apricots, we like fruits, Blanket likes mango. "It felt like we were developing an immediate bond," Chase explained. "It was a beautiful beginning." (ABC7)

Chase said she began working the very next day, end of March, beginning of April. Chase arrived 8-8:30 am, got kids ready for school, cooked breakfast, lunch, dinner, snacks, clean up, kept pantry stocked, grocery shopped. Chase's schedule started with 7 days a weeks, eventually became 6 days a week, with Sundays off. (ABC7)

Kai Chase’s testimony this morning focused on humanizing Jackson after numerous witnesses who’d dealt with him on business affairs only. She described the first time she met Jackson, bumping into him while bringing water to guests in his parlor. From there, they became close. Kai Chase: “He wanted to get to know the woman who was in his life who was feeding his family.” (AP) Chase said first MJ encounter they kind of had the introduction, like bumped into each other. Kind of like hey, how are you?. "That was the first introduction, after that it blossomed into a boss/friend relationship", Chase described. Chase said MJ was very hands on into his children's life/nutrition. "He wanted to get to know the woman who was feeding his children." (ABC7)

Chase said Jackson was a hands-on dad who often talked to her about healthy eating and nutrition. She said she had a chance to observe a lot of interactions because Jackson’s children often were in the den, which was next to kitchen. Jackson’s mansion had an open layout, so Chase said she could see into the den. Jackson spent a lot of time with his children, she said. “These children were his world,” Chase told jurors. She described them all eating together, telling jokes. (AP)

The relationship between MJ and his kids was very loving, they were together a lot, Chase said. Chase: His children were the love of his life, his children meant everything to him. MJ had lunch with his children privately, in beautifully set table. "His children meant the world to him," Chase testified. Chase said the house was very warm, good feeling, loving. It was a beautiful place, good feeling, music playing, fireplace on, she described. Chase said she did not eat the meals with MJ and kids because Michael liked the meal with his children to be private bonding time. Chase said that when they ate food from other parts of the world they would study a bit about the culture of the place they were eating. Chase would write the menu on chalkboard of what the meal was for the day, so kids could understand the food they were eating. (ABC7) Dinners were a major meal. Sometimes they pretended they were eating in other parts of the world, Chase said. Chase said she was teaching Jackson’s children about food. She would write the menu on a chalkboard in the kitchen. (AP)

Music and fireplaces were almost always on in the house, Chase said. Sometimes it was Disney music, sometimes classical. The soundtrack in the kitchen at Michael Jackson’s home was LA’s K-Earth 101 station, chef Kai Chase said. (AP)

Chase said the children were homeschooled from Monday to Friday, so Mr. Jackson liked to keep things creative. Chase gave as example Monday was reading day, Tuesday was arts and crafts, Wednesday was watching classic movie then writing about it. Chase said the kids learned math, science, foreign language. They had a teacher come in, they were constantly being educated. "He took great pride helping children develop foreign language and art," Chase testified. "The children weren't allowed to watch television" (ABC7)

Chase said she stayed a lot in the kitchen, but since it was an open floor plan, she got to interact with the children. "I'd teach them about food and technique, they'd teach me games," Chase recalled. (ABC7)

Chase got to see the interaction of MJ with the children. She said it was a family atmosphere. Chase described how the children reacted when MJ arrived at the house. Chase: Seeing those children take off like lightening, grab him by the ankle, by the arms, it brings tears to my eyes, so much love there. MJ was disciplinary when needed, Chase said. When they had school, they had to be in bed by certain time; respected and obeyed their father. (ABC7) Chase described the close bond Jackson and his children shared, telling jurors the youngsters would run to their father when he came into a room. "They would take off like lightning," she said, hugging their father's ankles and legs. On the stand, Chase said Jackson made sure the children kept a healthy diet and got plenty of sleep for school sessions. (AP).

She said Jackson wouldn't allow his children to eat sweets and made sure they went to bed early so they would be alert for tutors who instructed them. (AP)

Chang: Were they allowed to eat sweets whenever they wanted?
Chase: No! That was a big no, no "Sweets were only dictated when he (MJ) said," Chase explained. (ABC7)

Chase asked MJ if she could do comfort food Saturday, serving not-so-healthy food like fried chicken. MJ gave her the thumbs up, she said. It was a way to break the monotony of always eating healthy. (ABC7)

Chase said Michael had a very giving spirit, loving nature spirit. The chef testified MJ was always concerned on how to give back. Chase described seeing Paris going through her wardrobe and getting clothes she didn't want to wear anymore. Paris would sew the clothes into new pieces, made little skirts out of her pants, put them in a box and ship them overseas, Chase said.(ABC7)

Chase told jurors Jackson’s children weren’t allowed to watch television and didn’t use computers. (AP)

Chase testified the house had animals: dog, bird (who whistled for pretty women) 2 cats, rabbit, Prince had a rat he walked around the house. Chase said the kids were responsible and helped with the animals (ABC7) The house was full of pets, too, Chase said. There was a chocolate Labrador named Kenya, a talking bird named Siberia and two cats. The cats’ names were Katie and Thriller. Prince Jackson also had a pet rat, Kai Chase said. (AP) Animals roaming through the home included a chocolate lab named Kenya, cats Katie and Thriller, a rabbit and a talking bird who would "whistle when pretty girls go by," Chase said.

Prince had a pet rat he carried around, while Paris would host tea parties in her backyard doll house for the animals. The dog would jump in the pool with the kids when they swam on Saturdays, Chase said. (CNN)

Chase described going with Paris at night into the yard to look for a mom and baby snail. Jackson caught them on the way back. "At that point I knew I was going get fired," Chase recalled, but said MJ was fine with it. Paris and Chase put the snails in a jar, made a little snail farm, put in the kitchen. She said she put Blanket's drawings on the fridge. (ABC7) Chase told a story about one night going into the backyard of the mansion and collecting snails with Paris Jackson for a science project. When they returned, Michael Jackson was waiting for them. “At this point I knew I was going to get fired,” she said. (She wasn’t.) Instead, Michael Jackson helped make a comfy box for the snails, complete with moss, cocktail umbrellas. Box stayed in the kitchen, she said (AP) Jackson made sure school work was "interactive" for his children, including one science project for Paris that involved a night time hunt for snails, Chase said. "So far we have a daddy snail, but we don't have a mommy and a baby snail," Paris told Chase one evening. That triggered a snail hunt around the mansion grounds, she said. "I didn't know how he would feel about his daughter and me out snail hunting at night," she said, "but he was fine." Jackson joined them in constructing a snail farm in glass vases on the kitchen counter. (CNN)

Chase testified MJ's relationship with kids was warm, loving. "These are my babies," Chase said MJ would say. "We played games, monopoly." (ABC7)

Chase described Jackson as a prankster who ate meals with his children, exchanging jokes and stories.(AP)
Chang: Did MJ have a good sense of humor?
Chase: Yes, he was a practical joker (ABC7)

Paris Jackson would often write notes for her dad on a chalkboard sitting in the kitchen that Chase used to list a menu of the day's meals. One message from Jackson's daughter shown to jurors read, "I love daddy" and "Smile it's free."(AP) “I made it into a home there," Chase said about putting children's art in the kitchen. "The love was already there." On chalkboard, there's a message Paris wrote: "I love daddy! Smile, it's for free" Chase didn't recall if it was written the day MJ died. (ABC7)

Chase explained she did a lot of juicing for him with beats, organic vegetable, lots of lean protein, vegetable. MJ ate chicken, fish and turkey, no pork or beef. Chase said MJ liked Mexican food, she did vegan ground beef tacos, one of his favorites. (ABC7)

Paris celebrated her 11th birthday in beginning on April. Chase said MJ told the children they could eat anything they wanted that day. Paris chose to decorate party with everything Michael Jackson. They had cheese pizza, hot wings, banana split, Chase said. MJ then took his children to the backyard where he had this Cirque du Soleil type of performance for her. "They sat there and watched," Chase said. "And I cried." That was last birthday she had with her father. Chase said Paris has not had birthday party since, she doesn't want to celebrate it anymore. (ABC7) The dining room was decorated with Michael Jackson posters and album covers, while his music was played "because this is what she wanted for her 11th birthday," Chase testified. "She was just ecstatic."
"Just when you thought that was enough, he took his children to the backyard for a Cirque du Soleil-type performance for her," she said. Men on stilts, a woman inside a big balloon and circus acts "brought tears to my eyes ... It was the most beautiful expression of love I've ever seen." (CNN) Kai Chase says the singer hired a private circus for his daughter's 11th birthday party in 2009 in the backyard of his rented mansion. Chase says the performance was a Cirque du Soleil style performance with men on stilts and a woman performing in a giant balloon. Paris Jackson, who was turning 11, adored her father and Chase helped decorate a room filled with posters and photos of the "Thriller" singer. The singer's music was played throughout the party. She says Paris Jackson, now 15 years old, has not had a birthday party since then. "Paris hasn't had any birthdays since," Chase said. "She hasn't wanted to celebrate since." (AP)

Chase said MJ was very excited about what was happening, was excited to have his children see him perform. Chase said that MJ would come to the kitchen dressed sharply, black Levi's pants, with Tom Ford cologne. "Prince actually told me his daddy wanted me to go to London for the tour," Chase testified. (ABC7)

Kids' nanny was Grace Rwamba. Chase described her very warm and loving. "This is the mother that they knew, had been with them since birth". "I was told she was let go," Chase said. Chang asked if AEG had fired Rwamba, but defendant's attorney objected saying it was hearsay. (ABC7) "This was the mother they knew," Chase said of Rwaramba. "She was there when they were born." (CNN)

"I was let go in beginning of May by Michael Amir," Chase said. Chase said she was told there had been a change in management. Chase argued her rate is negotiable. "I was feeding Mr. Jackson and his children, my rate is negotiable, you have to let me go to London." Chase said she was told in person 'let me see what I can do' and next day she got call saying don't need to come in, you're fired. "I pleaded with him" Chase said. She didn't get to say goodbye to MJ or his kids, didn't have any discussions with MJ about salary/firing. The pay was very sketchy, Chase said, sometimes she was paid on time, sometimes not paid at all. Chase said she didn't believe MJ knew she was fired because she said she believes if MJ fired her it would've happen that way. (ABc7) She said before the break that she wasn't being paid regularly, but AEG lawyers objected to some emails being shown to the jury. That prompted a sidebar that took up the last few minutes of the court session.Attorneys are working on compromise to show the emails. (AP)

"When I came back in June, the kids and Mr. Jackson wanted me to come back," Chase explained. Chase said MJ went to her and asked where she had gone. "I need you to keep me and my children healthy," Chase testified MJ told her. "I'm working hard, they are killing me, I need your help," Chase said MJ told her. (ABc7)

Chase never saw the kids or MJ in May. In the beginning of June, Chase said she received a call from Michael Amir asking her to come back. "The energy in the house was not the same," Chase said. In April Chase said MJ was strong, healthy, active. "He looked good" Chase recalled. (ABC7)

Chase said she asked to get half of her salary upfront. "I was afraid I wasn't going to get paid," Chase explained. Chase said she wrote an email about it to make sure everyone was on the same page. (ABC7)

Chang: Did you decide to come back because you understood AEG Live would be covering you salary?
Chase: Yes (ABC7)

Chase returned to work on June 2nd.
Chang: Did you notice any difference in MJ?
Chase: Yes, I noticed that Mr Jackson looked very different (ABC7)

"He appeared very weak, he looked very much thinner, undernourished, he didn't look as well as I had seen him," Chase testified. "It was an obvious difference, concerned me greatly." Chase said MJ actually told her 'I need you to keep me and my children heathy.'"I looked at him with great concern... I need you to keep me and my children healthy," MJ told Chase. "I thought he was being overworked, over rehearsed," Chase recalled. Chase said MJ asked if she had his juices ready. They began talking about different juices she would make him. (ABC7)

Chase was let go from Jackson’s service in May 2009, but returned in June. She said by then, the singer had changed. “He appeared very weak,” Chase said about Jackson. “He looked much thinner.” She said he looked under-nourished. She said at one point that Jackson told her she needed to take care of his health. “They’re killing me,” she recounted Jackson saying. The Jackson quote was stricken from the record in the afternoon session. Chase had said it before the lunch break, too. (AP)

Chase recalled that when she arrived at the house, the pantry was bare. One side there was Fiji water. "Refrigerator was bare! There was Coca Cola, red bulls and Starbucks coffee drinks," Chase said. Chase then went to Whole Foods to buy organic food for the house. She explained While Foods has a card for chefs who have personal clients. "The credit card was declined. I had no choice but to use my own to pay for food to feed him and his family," Chase said. This was not the first time credit card was denied, Chase said, and sometimes she'd have to leave the groceries behind or pay for it herself. (ABC7)

"Mr. Jackson, with his rehearsals and his schedule, I could see it was taking a toll on him," Chase opined. Chase described when she observed MJ's son Prince helping Michael go up the stairs once. "For a 12 year old, trying to carry his father, it saddened me," Chase recalled. (ABC7)

Chase: I knew I had to get this man as healthy as possible, but I didn't know why he was deteriorating. Chase said she spoke with her parents about her concerns, but didn't know who she could take to at the house about it. (ABC7)

The children were excited to see Chase rehired, the chef said. "The day I came back, they greeted me at the door." Paris created a shoebox called "the box of happiness." Note from Paris Jackson: Dear Kai, Thank you for these beautiful gifts you have us. Oh, and I'm writing this letter with the magic wand pen you gave me. I hope you like the presents & picture. And thank you for the presents for P.B. & Daddy, they like them! Lots of love, Paris Jackson . Chase went to Disneyland on her first day off and brought them presents. Paris was thanking Chase for it. (ABC7)

"MJ did eat, but his portions were getting smaller," Chase said. Chase recalled one time seeing Travis Payne and MJ rehearsing at the house. Chase first met Dr. Murray in the first few weeks of April. "He introduced himself to me as Michael's personal physician," Chase explained. "I saw him more daily in June," Chase explained, saying Dr. Murray wasn't around as much in April, never saw him bring anything to the house. "Majority of the times I'd see Dr. Murray there in the morning," Chase testified. She assumed Dr. Murray had spent the night. Dr. Murray never discussed MJ's nutrition with Chase. "I thought it was quite strange a doctor not checking MJ's eating habits." "I asked him a couple of times, but his answer was you can fix him anything," Chase said about conversation with Dr. Murray. In June, Chase remembers seeing Dr. Murray at the house in the mornings. (ABC7)

"My room was the kitchen, there was no reason for me to go upstairs," Chase explained about not going to the upper floor of the house. "I saw Dr. Murray bring oxygen tanks down from upstairs into the kitchen," Chase recalled. Chase: Sometimes I saw them lined-up in the security booth with a sign saying "fill up every Friday." "Yes, I was concerned," Chef testified. "I had no idea what they had been used for, but I never asked." Chase: I felt it was strange to see the doctor there but he was slowly deteriorating; I didn't understand it. (ABC7) She said she was concerned thought it was unusual that Conrad Murray was at the mansion daily, but didn’t voice concerns. (AP)

Chase testified about a June meeting in with AEG execs Randy Phillips and Paul Gongaware, Murray and Jackson. She said a vase was broken during the meeting, but she didn’t know who broke it. She said Jackson and Murray left meeting. After the meeting Phillips, Gongaware and Dileo stayed at the house. They were still there when she left for the day. She said Jackson seemed like he had “the weight of the world on his shoulders” after that meeting. (AP)

Chase said there was a meeting at the house with Paul Gongaware , Randy Phillips, Dr. Murray and MJ, former manager Frank DiLeo. "Mr. Jackson asked me to fix snacks since he had guests coming over," Chase said. Meeting was around the second week of June. Chase said the meeting was at the parlor. She went in and out serving beverages, snacks. Mr. Jackson was covered-up, Chase said. MJ was wearing a surgical mask and several layers of clothing, sweatshirt. Chase: I observed that he looked scared, he looked scared and frightened may be about this meeting would entail. "I immediately heard loud crash," Chase said. MJ had a very expensive vase sitting behind where he would sit. Chase: The vase crashed. It was rather large so it was loud. Myself and one of the housekeepers ran into the room to pick up the pieces. "I was able to hear some of the conversation," Chase said. "They were very firm with him." Everyone was talking over each other, Chase recalled hearing. "MJ left the meeting first, the gentlemen stayed," Chase said. Dr. Murray left second, came through the kitchen to leave. "He was upset," Chase said. He said "I can't take this s**t," Chase said Dr. Murray told her, storming out of the house. Chase said others stayed in the parlor. She left around 6 pm, shortly after Dr. Murray, and the men were still there in the meeting.(ABC7)

Chase said MJ's reaction afterwards: "He was thinking, the weight of the world on his shoulder, he was frightened, scared." "MJ's demeanor concerned me greatly," Chase recalled. (ABC7)

Jackson, wearing a surgical mask and covered by several layers of clothing, appeared "scared and frightened" as he walked down his stairs to join Phillips, Gongaware, Dr. Murray and his manager Frank Dileo for the meeting in his parlor, Chase said. "I immediately heard a loud crash," she testified. A "very, very expensive vase" sitting next to Jackson's chair was smashed. Jackson "seemed very firm with them," she said. The judge would not let her tell jurors what she heard him saying to the AEG Live executives. But there were "loud voices" and everyone was talking over each other," she said. Jackson left the meeting, followed by Dr. Murray, who seemed "very upset," she said. "I can't take this s--t," Murray said, according to Chase. When she saw Jackson later, he seemed to have "the weight of the world on his shoulders," she said. He was "concerned, frightened and scared; a lot of those emotions." (CNN)

The chef did not suspect Dr. Murray was doing something harmful to Michael Jackson. "I thought it was strange that there were oxygen tanks at home when there was a doctor 24/7," Chase explained. (ABC7)

On June 24, Chase arrived at the house as usual and prepared breakfast. Dr. Murray was there, came to the kitchen from upstairs around 10 am. In June, MJ rarely went downstairs to eat breakfast, Chase explained. Dr. Murray would get the food and take it to him. "He was dragging, he was dragging a little that day," Chase said. "But I did tell him he looked good, to give him some encouragement." Chase said MJ was contemplating going to Staples Center or training at home with Payne that day. Chase was told to leave two dinner items in the fridge, one for Dr. Murray and one for MJ. She would work until 6:30-7:00, sometimes later. (ABC7)

June 25, Chase arrived at the regular time. She prepared some breakfast. "Everything was beautiful as usual." Chase said kids were playing at the den, she went grocery shopping, unloaded groceries. Lunch was always served around 12:30 am. Saw Dr. Murray between 12:05-12:10 he came down in the same stairs as always. "He was frightened," Chase testified. Chase said Dr. Murray screamed to her "go get help, go get security, go get Prince." Chase stopped and went to get Prince. She told him "Hurry, Dr. Murray needs you, there may be something wrong with your father." Prince went to Dr. Murray and Chase saw the housekeepers, Jimmy and Blanca, crying saying there may be something wrong with Mr. Jackson. Chase: I hear Prince screaming daddy, daddy, daddy, Paris screamed DAD! Chase becomes emotional, cries a bit on the stand. Chase said she didn't want the children to feel pain. So she hugged all the children and said "Let's pray." Chase said people were crying, security was everywhere, paramedics going up the stairs, chaos. "They were devastated," Chase said about the children. Katherine Jackson wiped her eyes, cried in the audience. Chase said she heard on the radio that MJ had died. "I didn't want to believe it, I thought they were lying," Chase said. (ABC7)

Dr. Murray "was panicked" as he screamed for Chase to call Prince and the security guard to go upstairs to help him. "Hurry Dr. Murray needs you," she said she told Prince, who was playing in the den. "There may be something wrong with your father." She returned to her lunch preparations, failing to alert the security guard in the shack near the kitchen door. Murray never asked her to call 911 for an ambulance. Chase realized there was a grave problem when the housekeepers began crying "Mr. Jackson may be dead," she said. "You could feel the energy in the house was changing." Prince screamed "Daddy" and Paris screamed a "blood curdling, out of her mind Daddy!" "I grabbed them and held their hands and said 'Let's pray. Father God, please let nothing be wrong with this man.'" Paramedics were soon running up the the stairs. Head of security Alberto Alvarez asked Chase to leave the house. "He'll be fine," Alvarez told her. (CNN)

Chase said she was paid for overseas interviews, which were mostly on food preparation. (ABc7)

About returning to work last year, Chase said she got a phone call saying the children had been requesting me since their daddy's death. "The kids really miss me, loved me and I agreed," Chase explained. Chase began working with Mrs. Jackson and children in July 2012. (ABC7)

Chase said family was very important for MJ, they talked about it about 50% of the time. "He loved his mother and he loved his children." Chase said her responsibilities are the same with Mrs. Jackson. She said she has a lot of the in common with her, including the love for MJ. “She loves music, and art, and beautiful flowers," Chase explained about Mrs. Jackson. She said she speaks with the children every day. "Mrs. Jackson misses him very much," Chase said. "This is her child, her son! It saddens her, she cries, I cry. I comfort her." Chase said Mrs. Jackson misses her son's spirit, the love he gave to her, the jokes they would share together, the conversations, the love. (ABC7)

About the children, Chase said they were huge and becoming teenagers when she came back last year. Prince and Paris go to private school, Blanket is still home schooled. "Before they were in this protective type of special life," Chase explained. "They are thrust into the world now, which is all new to them." "The love and the home is the same," Chase explained. Chase said the children talk about MJ's music, what he would do in certain situations. Prince is now 16 years old. Chase says he was daddy's little man, but now feels the weight of the world on his shoulder. Chang urged Chase not to go into too many details about Paris. "Being daddy's little girl, she's devastated and lost," Chase said about Paris. Chase on Paris: She's looking, for there was some much love that was given between her and her father. "She's lost, she's searching, she's sad. It's devastating to her, every girl needs her father," Chase said about Paris. "She's trying to find herself, trying to find who she is and it's taking a lot of love and understanding to keep her together," Chase said. (ABC7)

Chang: Do they miss their father?
Chase: That's apparent
Chang: Is she having a difficult time coping with the death of her father?
Chase: Yes, she is. She breaks down, she cries, she talks about him, she doesn't want to have another birthday again (ABC7)

The entire household has been worried about Paris, Chase said. Blanket just graduated from grade school. Chase said this is all knew to him too. "As the littlest he has his older siblings to protect him" "I still think the youngest child will be the most affected. Being the baby, it's a lot of remembering of what daddy did," Chase on Blanket. "He's hurt too, he's feeling a little lost too," Chase said, adding Blanket never had a growing up moment when was father-son only. "He remembers his father," Chase said. (ABC7)

Gone are the freewheeling days when the children, Prince, Paris and Blanket Jackson played with their father and traded jokes at the dinner table, chef Kai Chase told jurors Tuesday. It has been replaced, Chase said, by a weight on eldest son Prince Michael Jackson's shoulders. Daughter Paris Jackson cries and no longer wants parties for her birthday since her father hosted a private circus for her 11th birthday. Youngest son Blanket, who remains home-schooled, wears a T-shirt with his father's image every Friday, she said. (AP) "He does dance moves like his father," she testified. (CNN) "At 16, the weight of the world is on his shoulders," Chase said of Prince Jackson, who is trying to figure out girls and all the challenges adulthood brings. His younger brother, 11-year-old Blanket, has his older siblings to shield him from pain but had the least time to spend with his father. "He never really had a time when it was father-son because he was so tiny," Chase said. The singer's only daughter seems to be having the hardest time, Chase said. "Being daddy's little girl, Paris is devastated," Chase said. "She's devastated and lost." Of Paris, she said, "She's trying to find herself and find who she is," Chase said. "It's taking a lot of love and understanding to keep her together. She breaks down, she cries, she talks about him." (AP)

"They talk about their father a lot," Chase said. "It's just something that they'll never get over -- the love and how much they miss their father." (CNN)

No more questions by plaintiffs. Chase hugged Katherine Jackson in the audience and they both cried (ABC7)


AEG cross

AEG's attorney Jessica Stebbins Bina did cross examination of Kai Chase. (ABC7)

AEG Live defense attorney Jessica Stebbins Bina took over questioning. She focused on some of the secrecy of the Jackson mansion. She asked Chase about what happened when she wasn’t paid. Chase said Jackson’s assistant would reassure staff checks were coming. Chase said there was an unspoken rule in the house that anyone who complained to Jackson about missed paychecks would be fired. (AP)

Stebbins Bina also asked Chase about her impressions of Conrad Murray. The chef said he seemed like a nice man and well put together. Chase said she never expected Jackson to die, or that Murray was giving him anything improper. The chef said she thought Jackson’s deterioration in June was from rehearsing too much. She said she hadn’t heard of propofol. (AP)

Bina asked if Michael Amir did background check in her. She replied she didn't know. Bina: Did you sign anything to get a credit check on you?
Chase: No (ABC7)

Middle of April Chase began having Sundays off. In April, Chase said she saw MJ a lot. He would come home for lunch and stay for dinner. Chase said she spent 70-75% in the kitchen. The rest, she says she spent playing with the children. Chase said in April, MJ would hang out with the children about 3-4 times a week for about 25% of the time. He wasn't there as much in June. (ABC7)

"I don't know if it was unspoken rule, I was told by Michael Amir that client requested quarters upstairs to be private," Chase explained. Chase said that either the children or Dr. Murray would take the food upstairs. LAPD detective Orlando Martinez said Chase took a tray of food for MJ upstairs, and she said it was not true, that never happened.(ABC7)

Bina showed paparazzo picture of the children in 2008. At the corner, there's a man in a wheelchair wearing surgical mask. He resembles MJ. Chase said she doesn't know who the person is. Bina wants to show another photo, and Chang requested a sidebar. Chase could not say whether the person on the wheelchair and surgical mask was MJ. (ABC7)

Bina played video deposition of Paris Jackson. She said her dad didn't like Rwamba, he said she was sneaky, wasn't honest person, lied a lot. Paris tells in the depo how Grace Rwamba portended to be MJ's wife when they were at hotel rooms. This contradicted what Chase testified. (ABC7)

Jackson lawyers, however, told the judge Tuesday that Paris is unavailable to appear in person since she is still being treated in a hospital. AEG Live is able to use the video recording of her deposition, which they began doing Tuesday afternoon. The first clip shown to jurors was an answer to a question by AEG Live lawyer Marvin Putnam about former Jackson nanny Grace Rwaramba, who was fired two months before Jackson's death.
"My dad didn't like her, so he tried to, like, keep her away from us," Paris said. "So he sent her on errands a lot." Her father was reluctant to fire Rwaramba because "he felt bad because she didn't really have a lot of money," she testified. "He said she was sneaky and she wasn't an honest person and she lied a lot," Paris said. Paris related an incident that happened when she was "really young." She prefaced the story by saying it was "real creepy" and "this is going to freak you out." The nanny would sneak into a doctor's bedroom and "he'd wake up and she'd be in his bed," Paris said. "So, yeah, it's kind of creepy."
Putnam asked her why her father didn't just make her stay away. "He sent her to India to get some stuff," Paris said. "She kept coming back." (CNN)

[video=youtube_share;p1LHcZm_xXc]http://youtu.be/p1LHcZm_xXc[/video]

The pay was sporadically, Chase said. When she asked about where the checks were, she was said they were going through changes. Chase said Michael Amir told her she would get fired if she asked MJ or the kids about not getting paid. (ABC7)

Bina inquired Chase if she knew how the private circus in the backyard for Paris birthday party was paid for. She said she didn't know. (ABC7)

As to the snail hunting, Chase said it happened around 8 pm and she wasn't sure how MJ would react. (ABC7)

Bina: When you were let go in May, did you believe MJ was healthy?
Chase: Yes (ABC7)

Chase said neither MJ nor his children called her after she was fired to find out why she wasn't at the house. "He didn't look healthy," Chase explained. "He looked a little undernourished." Chase said she has no idea what MJ and the children were eating in May while she was gone. Chase said MJ looked pretty strong in April. "He looked great in April, he didn't look good in June," Chase opined. (ABC7)

Bina: Do you know the reason why MJ couldn't buy food in May?
Chase: I don't know (ABC7)

Bina said Chase never mentioned the stair incident, where Prince had to help MJ upstairs, to the media. "I wanted to be very general with my conversations with the media in respect of his privacy," Chase explained. Bina played Prince's video deposition where Prince said he wouldn't be able to help his dad upstairs. (ABC7)

[video=youtube_share;ILBOLO9KgVc]http://youtu.be/ILBOLO9KgVc[/video]

"He was rehearsing a lot, tired, that's what I saw," Chase explained. "I saw him tired, weak and over rehearsed." (ABC7)

Chase said she asked Dr. Murray about MJ eating. "He said, well, he doesn't eat that much." (ABC7)

Chase said Dr. Murray seemed like a nice man. She was not concerned about him not being a good doctor. (ABC7)

Chase was shocked when she heard MJ died. She first didn't believe it. (ABC7)

Chase testified she never saw MJ drink alcohol or under the influence of drugs. In April, Chase said she saw Dr. Murray 2-3 times a week. There was one time in June Chase cooked dinner for Dr. Murray, MJ and the kids, served Turkish lentil soup. Chase said the times she saw Dr. Murray and MJ together, they had a friendly relationship; children seemed to like Dr. Murray as well. "My understanding was that Dr. Murray was his personal physician," Chase explained. Chase said it didn't seem weird MJ have doctor, maybe heneeded for aching bones. But she thought it was weird to have a doctor every day. "It was strange that he (Dr. Murray) was there all the time," Chase opined. (ABC7)

Oxygen tanks in April were smaller, in June bigger, Chase said. She saw Dr. Murray come down with a tank on each hand in the morning. Chase never inquired about the oxygen tanks, because "it was none of my business." (ABC7)

Chase said she didn't have any idea that MJ was taking Propofol to sleep. Chase: I thought he was over rehearsed, I thought he was rehearsing too much, that they were overworking him. And this was the result of it (ABC7)

Chase testified in April MJ would eat breakfast with his kids every morning. But in her depo, she said Dr. Murray would bring his breakfast. "He had breakfast with his children when he wasn't having food upstairs," Chase said. (ABC7)

 

[ivy]

Jacksons vs AEG - Day 33 – June 19 2013 – Summary

Jackson family is not at court.

Kai Chase Testimony

AEG cross

MJ's personal chef Kai Chase on the stand. AEG's attorney Jessica Stebbins Bina doing cross examination. (ABC7)

Stebbins Bina asked Chase about whether she ever saw any of Jackson’s other doctors. Chase replied no. (AP) Chase said she never met Dr. Alan Metzger, another physician who treated Michael Jackson. (ABC7) Chase was asked about Dr. Allan Metzer and dermatologist Arnold Klein. She was also asked about nurse Cherilyn Lee. (AP)

Bina asked why Chase never told the police or testified at Dr. Murray's trial about the meeting at MJ's house. She said she wasn't asked. (ABC7) Stebbins Bina then asked Chase why she didn’t mention the meeting in which a vase was broken to police. Chase said they didn’t ask. The lawyer said the first time Chase mentioned the vase being broken was in her deposition in October 2012. (AP)

Bina: First time you mentioned the meeting was in your deposition in Oct 2012?
Chase: Yes
At that point, Bina pointed out Chase was already working for Mrs. Jackson. (ABC7)

Gongaware, DiLeo, Phillips, MJ and Dr. Murray were present in the meeting, Chase explained. Bina: You testified Mr. Jackson was wearing surgical mask and layers and layers of clothing, correct?
Chase: Yes (ABC7)

Chase was then asked about her description of Jackson at the meeting, that he wore a surgical mask and layers of clothes. (AP) But Bina said she didn't mention the surgical mask or layers of clothing before. "I described his emotions, yes," Chase explained. "You could just see the fears in his eyes." "He looked scared," Chase said. "They didn't ask for that and I didn't say it." (ABC7) The chef testified yesterday that Jackson looked afraid going into that meeting. She was again asked why she didn’t mention details before. Chase said at her deposition, she wasn’t asked for those details and “I didn’t say it.” (AP)

Bina: Did you think it was important to mention MJ was wearing a surgical masks during your deposition?
Chase: I said what I said (ABC7)

"I didn't know why he as wearing that, it was pretty strange, he had not worn that in the house before," Chase said about the surgical mask. (ABc7)

Bina: And it wasn't important enough to tell anybody before testifying yesterday, correct?
Chase: Yes (ABC7)

Bina: Did you ever mention before yesterday that Mr. Jackson was cold in that meeting?
Chase: Yes!
Chase said she saw MJ cold once. (ABC7)

"Mr. Jackson was very scared at that meeting," Chase testified. But she said MJ didn't tell her he was fearful, never spoke to her about it. (ABC7)

Chase reiterated that she didn’t know who broke the vase during the meeting, only heard one statement from Frank Dileo. Chase wasn’t allowed to testify about what Dileo said. She said she didn’t mention it to police or during Murray’s criminal proceedings. (AP) Chase said she overheard bits and pieces of the meeting since she was in and out of the room filling up beverages. "I heard what Mr. DiLeo had stated," Chase explained. Judge sustained objection about it being hearsay, so what DiLeo said was not repeated. Chase said she also told during her deposition about the voices being raised in the meeting; she said she does not know who broke the vase. As to Dr Murray leaving the meeting, Chase said he was so angry and upset, stormed into the kitchen, blurted out 'I can't handle this s**t.' Chase never talked to Dr. Murray after this episode to ask him what had happened that made him so upset. Bina asked if she knew the reason Dr. Murray was upset was because of the meeting. “No, I don't, but I was assuming it had to do with the meeting because he was coming out of it and left," Chase said. (ABC7)

"They are killing me, I'm working too hard" Chase said MJ expressed. Bina asked if was figure speech she said she took it for what he said. MJ talked to Chase about This Is It tour. "He was excited about everything," Chase said. "When he stated I'm being overworked, they are killing me, that was an indication he was tired," Chase explained. "He was tired, he needed a rest, a break," Chase said. (ABC7)

Bina played Chase's deposition, where she said MJ didn't give her any indication he was trying to avoid this concert at all. "He was excited about going to this tour," Chase said. "I too was excited, for him, for his fans, for everyone," Chase said. (ABC7)

Stebbins Bina asked about Chase’s conversations with MJ about the “This Is It” tour. She said Jackson was excited about the tour. Chase said the only time she felt Jackson expressed reservations was when he made the “They’re killing me” comment. (AP)

Chase understood she was hired by Michael Jackson but was going to be paid by AEG Live. The chef said she didn't know anything about MJ paying AEG back for her salary. (ABC7)

Bina: You understood you were let go in April for financial reasons?
Chase: Yes (ABC7)

Chase was paid every week. She had to file a claim against MJ's estate to be paid for the month of June, 2009. She has been paid in full. (ABC7)

The credit card that was declined belonged to Michael Amir Williams, Chase said. (ABC7)

"I didn't know what was going on," Chase explained about MJ's eating in May. "I assumed they possibly had food brought in." (ABC7)

Bina talked about the day MJ died. Chase said she got Prince because it was such a serious matter. Chase said she didn't think was going to make sense to stop what she was doing to out the house and look for security. After getting Prince, Chase returned to work. At some point, Chase and the housekeepers were told to leave the house. "We were asked to leave, the paramedics was still there," Chase said. Chase asked Alberto Alvarez, MJ's security guard, if MJ was ok? She said he told her he would be fine. (ABC7)

The chef was asked a little bit about the day Jackson died. She testified about Alberto Alvarez asking her to leave the mansion. She said before she left, Alvarez asked her to sign a one-paragraph document, but she doesn’t know what it was. Chase said other staffers in Jackson’s house signed confidentiality agreements, but what she signed wasn’t a confidentiality agreement. (AP) Alvarez asked Chase if she ever signed a confidentiality agreement. She said she had not, but Chase believes the housekeepers had. Alvarez asked Chase to sign something on the spot. "He asked me to sign some sort of a paragraph not on letterhead," Chase explained. Chase signed it but said she can't remember what it said. She then left the house. That was the last time she was at the Carolwood house.(ABC7)

Bina: Did it require you to keep things confidential?
Chase: It never said that (ABC7)

"I was serving smaller portions of food to MJ," Chase explained. (ABC7)

At this point, Stebbins Bina wanted to show Chase a post on CNN’s website. The lawyer called it a blog Chase wrote for Larry King. It sounded like a news story, and Chase denied she wrote it. There was a sidebar about showing it to the jury. After the sidebar, Stebbins Bina asked several more questions about it, continuing to call it blog post that Chase wrote. Chase kept denying it, eventually telling jury she had a blog called “Nibble by Kai Chase.” Chase: “I’m telling you that this is not mine. In a nice way.” She was clearly annoyed by this point. There were more questions about the post, and Chase said, “I didn’t write a blog for Larry King, sweetheart.” Stebbins Bina asked Chase to use professional language. The chef turned to the jury and said, “I didn’t write a blog for Larry King.” (AP) Bina showed Chase a blog with interview Chase gave to Larry King Live. "I did not write this blog for Larry King," Chase said. Chase got a little irritated with the question and said she has a blog about food. "And I'm telling you this, in a nice way," Chase said. (ABC7)

Bina: Did you did tell Mr. King during the time you fed him well and he ate well?
Chase: Yes, when I was feeding him, yes
Bina: That he ate well, organic foods?
Chase: Yes
"He ate well because I fed him well," Chase testified. "Overall, Mr. Jackson ate well."
Chase: He ate well because the foods I prepared him, which were healthy, well nutrition foods. That's what I mean when I said he ate well.
Bina: He had poor appetite, but ate well?
Chang: He ate well, healthy foods (ABC7)

There were questions about the children’s bedtimes. Stebbins Bina asked Chase how many times she was at house at kids’ bedtime. (AP) Chase said it fluctuated the hours she left. She said MJ was a strict father, the kids had to go to bed on time. "Sometimes he would be there with his children, but schedule changed," Chase said. "I was there every day," Chase explained, saying she didn't go upstairs, so she didn't see MJ tuck the kids in bed. Chase said MJ would do school nights, weekends, sometimes he came home late would let kids stay up. "He was a parent, that's what you do" (ABC7) Chase said she couldn’t give a percentage of times she was there for bedtimes. Chase said she never saw children put to bed. She said their bedtimes varied, and that they sometimes stayed up late on weekends. (AP)

Stebbins Bina then challenged Chase on her contention that Paris Jackson hadn’t had any birthday parties since 2009. Chase conceded that she hadn’t been present for Paris’ birthday since 2009, but Paris told her she didn’t like celebrations. Stebbins Bina asked about a 2010 party Paris apparently had at a roller rink. Chase said she was relying on what Paris told her. (AP) About Paris Jackson, Chase said she has not celebrated birthday parties after MJ died. Chase visited the kids at the Hayvenhurst house a couple of times, two or three, between 2009-12. Chase wasn't present when Paris had her birthday. "She told me she does not like to celebrate birthdays after her dad died," Chase testified. Chase doesn't know whether Paris celebrated her birthday in 2010, 2011 or 2012. (ABC7)

"I talked about the food and the love he had for his children," Chase said about paid interviews after MJ's death. (ABC7)

"I don't know if he was terminating employment, but he made all the staff leave," Chase said about Alvarez asking them to leave on June 25. (ABC7)

In 2012, Chase was re-hired by Mrs. Jackson. They speak daily now, but never spoke before MJ died. Chase never saw her at MJ's house. Chase is currently being paid by Mrs. Jackson. She makes about the same amount of money from when she worked with MJ. (ABc7)

Bina asked if Mrs Jackson gave Chase birthday present this year. The chef said no, since she doesn't celebrate dates being Jehovah's Witness
Bina: She didn't send you to the MJ Immortal show?
Chase: She gave me a pair a tickets
Bina: Do you have a twitter account?
Chase: Yes

Bina showed a tweet Chase posted. Tweet: Going to see the MJ Immortal Cirque Du Soleil show tonight. What a wonderful pre-birthday gift. Thank you Katherine Jackson. Chase said Mrs. Jackson doesn't celebrate dates, but the chef considered it a pre-birthday gift for herself. (ABC7)

Chase worked as chef for Mary J. Blige sporadically after MJ died. She did not have steady job, had help from family and friends financially (ABC7)

In April 2012, Chase received a subpoena from AEG Live. In July 2012, Chase was contacted to work back with Mrs. Jackson. Sandra Ribera, Jackson's lawyer, called Chase asking if she wanted to go back to work for her. Ribera also acted as Chase's attorney in her deposition. In Oct 2012, deposition was taken. Chase does not know who paid Ribera to accompany her in her depo. (ABC7)

The lawyer then asked about Chase’s current employment with Katherine Jackson. She said they haven’t discussed the AEG case. Stebbins Bina asked about tickets Katherine Jackson gave Chase to her for the Jackson “Immortal” show. Chase said it wasn’t a gift. Chase had tweeted that it was a “wonderful pre-birthday gift” and thanked Katherine Jackson. She said it wasn’t a gift because Katherine Jackson doesn’t celebrate birthdays. “She’s a Jehovah’s Witness,” Chase said. Stebbins Bina asked whether Chase was concerned that Mrs. Jackson would fire her over testimony in the case. Chase: “No. That’s absurd.” (AP)

Chase met with Chang, attorney for the Jacksons, for about an hour a month ago, another hour a week ago and briefly yesterday.
Bina: Are you afraid that if you don't testify in the right way in this trial Mrs. Jackson may fire your?
Chase: No
Bina: Did that never cross your mind?
Chase: No, that's absurd (ABc7)


Jackson redirect

Jacksons attorney Deborah Chang did re-direct.

Chang: Do you know if Ms. Ribera hires all staff for Mrs. Jackson?
Chase: Yes
Chang: Do you know if Ms. Ribera handles payroll for Mrs. Jackson?
Chase: Yes
Chase said the children requested her to come back to work at the house.
Chang: Have you and Mrs. Jackson discussed this lawsuit?
Chase: No
Chang: Have you seen Mrs. Jackson threaten to fire anyone who didn't testify in the right way in this trial?
Chase: No (ABC7)

Chase said Michael Amir told her he was 23 years old. She asked his age because she thought he was the client. Chase said she's 45. "He was the librarian at Neverland and he used to alphabetized DVDs with his father," Chase testified about Michael Amir Williams. Chase worked with Culinary Staffing, an agency that does a lot of background on people before setting up meeting with client, to find work. Chase's resume was 4 pages long, including her experience, schooling, references. (ABC7)

She filled out AEG paperwork for working permit in the UK. The form asked about criminal background, citations, financial information. Chase filled it out and gave it to Michael Amir. (ABC7)

Chase said the “unspoken rule” that staff who questioned why they weren’t being paid would get fired came from Michael Amir Williams. The chef said she never discussed missed paychecks with Jackson, and was never told by the singer not to go upstairs. (AP)

Chang: Did MJ ever tell you not to go upstairs?
Chase: No
Chang: Did MJ ever tell you not to go in his bedroom?
Chase: No
DC: Did MJ ever tell you not to ask him about payment?
KC: No (ABC7)

"I was crying because it was beautiful to see him with his children," Chase said about watching Paris and MJ celebrate her birthday in 2009. Chase said she wasn't thinking about getting paid, since she had just started working for MJ. Paris' actual birthday is April 3. Her first paycheck came in on time, Chase said. (ABC7)

Regarding Paris deposition, Chase said her statement surprised her. "She seems just lost, she seems to just be grieving, missing her father". Chase: I knew that she was very, she was very close with Grace when she was young. Chase said Paris has a feeling of abandonment, which is probably part of the reason she was angry with Grace. Chase said Grace was a very big support for her, very loving, helped her with the kids. "They were just best friend, very, very deep relationship," Chase said about MJ and Grace Rwamba. (ABC7)

Chang: Did you believe she was protective over MJ and the children?
Chase: Yes
DC: And she was let go?
KC: Yes
"The children felt abandoned, they weren't happy, they were upset," Chase said about Grace being fired.
Chang: Do you know if Grace kept in contact with MJ?
Chase: I don't know
Chang: Do you know MJ created a foundation for her to work?
Chase: I've heard
Chase said she heard Grace was going to the UK to prepare things for MJ and the children.
Chang: Paris has gone through a difficult period over the past 2 weeks?
Chase: Yes
"She's turned to her grandmother, she's turned to Grace and she's turned to her biological mother Debbie Rowe," Chase responded. (ABC7)

Chang: Did you ever see Dr. Murray make a special mineral-enriched shake for MJ?
Chase: No, I did not
Chase made a variety of organic juices for MJ and the children. (ABC7)

Chase said she was not aware of Dr. Murray spending the night in April. She was never asked to prepare food for him then. (ABc7)
Chase said she spoke with Michael Amir about MJ being skinny, and he indicated he had the same concerns. (ABC7)

Chase testified she gave interview to LAPD 4 days after MJ's death and didn't think it was relevant to mention the meeting in mid June. "What they wanted to know was what happened that day," Chase explained. Chang showed Chase transcript of criminal trial, where Chase said she was never asked what MJ was wearing in the June meeting. (ABC7)

Chang: Did Paris want to leave her father (on June 25th)?
Chase: Paris was so emotional that day
Chase said there was a lot of screaming and crying.
Chase: We were literally pulling her down the stairs, they had her by her ankles, she was going upstairs calling daddy, daddy, daddy!!!
Chase said she didn't want to leave, but was told to leave. "Who was going to be there with them? I knew they loved me and wanted me there." (ABC7)

Chase worked with MJ for about eight weeks, knew Grace Rwamba for about two weeks. (ABC7)


AEG recross

Bina: Any reason to believe Paris wasn't truthful when she was testifying talking about her conversation with her father?
Chase: No (ABC7)

Regarding the company they used to hire Chase, she said had known this company for years, she used them for her own catering company.
Bina: So the company knew you, didn't have to do financial background on you?
Chase: No (ABC7)

Chase: I didn't say I had financial struggles
Bina: But you said you had family and friends helping?
Chase: Yes, they helped me financially (ABC7)

Chase said kids wanted her back.
Bina: Do you know why it took 3 years for them to ask you back?
Chase: I guess there were other employees (ABC7)

Bina asked if the form Chase filled out to work in the UK was given to all the employees. She said yes, but doesn't know abut Dr. Murray. (ABC7)

Chang: Did Mrs. Jackson ever offer you $150k to provide medical care for her?
Chase: No
Then judge asked "How about for food?"
Everyone laughed, Chase said no (ABC7)


Video deposition of AEG's retained addiction specialist, Dr. Paul Henry Earley.

Dr. Earley said he's getting paid $300 an hour for research and $500 an hour for deposition. Dr. Earley is an addiction medicine specialist, care for individuals with substance abuse and disorders. He became board certified the first year the test became available. Dr. Earley first training was in neurology, then psychotherapy. The doctor has been working on this field for 28 years (ABC7)

Kevin Boyle: Are you qualified to treat patients who have addiction?
Dr Earley: I am

Dr. Earley said he treated patients with Propofol addiction, and is qualified to treat patients with benzodiazepine addiction. Dr. Earley is now involved in long-term treatment of physicians with addiction problems.

Dr. Earley explained what "Enabler" is, when someone is feeding the addiction of an addict. "Addiction is disease of secrecy, often times enablers don't see it" Dr. Earley testified. "I thinks Dr Murray was trying to help MJ sleep"

Boyle: Was it ok for Dr. Murray to give Propofol to MJ at home?
Dr. Earley: No, that was medically incorrect
Dr. Earley said he would not have done it. "Propofol is not an appropriate agent for sleep induction."

Dr. Earley testified that under the circumstances, he doesn't think he could've done a better job with MJ in terms of recovery. Dr. Earley explained in hospital if patient goes into deep sleep, there are machines to help the patient breath and control blood pressure.

When asked if he thought MJ had substance issue, Dr. Earley was adamant: "In 2009, he did have an addiction, yes." "I think he clearly had an addiction to opioids, that class of drugs," Dr. Earley said. Dr. Earley: I don't think there's sufficient evidence from the record reading to ascertain he was addicted to Propofol or benzodiazepine. Dr. Earley: The primary drug of his (MJ) addiction was Demerol, by far the most common opioid he took. Dr. Early: MJ's death wasn't caused by Demerol directly, there's a question if Demerol created synergy with Propofol and benzodiazepine (ABC7)

 

[ivy]

Jacksons vs AEG - Day 34 – June 20 2013 – Summary

Katherine Jackson is in court.

Dr. Charles Czeisler Testimony , Jackson's retained Sleeping Disorder Specialist.

Jackson direct

Jackson's attorney Michael Koskoff doing direct examination. (ABC7)

Dr. Czeisler lives in the Boston area, Massachusetts, grew up in Chicago. He detailed his extensive background in the medical field. Dr. Czeisler graduated from Harvard and went to Stanford Medical School. He became a professor at Harvard medical school. (ABC7)

The doctor said our internal clock regulates the timing we are awake and asleep. Dr. Czeisler began studying the internal clock in the brain that controls our sleep while in undergraduate school. After lunch time, the drive from the internal clock to stay awake becomes stronger and stronger, Dr. Czeisler said. Light is the most synchronizing sleep pattern, Dr. Czeisler explained. When it's light out, it's time to stay awake. Dark, time to sleep. Changes in the regular sleeping pattern sends confusing signals to the brain, which suppresses the release of hormones, Dr. Czeisler said. People who work night shift have difficulty going to sleep right away when they get home, since they are still wired up. (ABC7)

The first sports team Dr. Czeisler worked with was NBA Portland Trail Blazers. They contacted him to help the teamed just through time zones. The doctor also worked with the Minnesota Timberwolves and Boston Celtics, the Bruins and now the Red Sox. Dr. Czeisler said musicians can also have sleeping problems when they are traveling through time zones. Musicians on tour have altered schedule, Dr. Czeisler said. They perform late, are on a different country with different time zones. Dr Czeisler has worked with The Rolling Stones and Shaquille O'Neal. Shaq allowed doctor to videotape exam to evaluate if he had sleep apnea.The doctor said Shaq wanted help educate the public about sleeping problems. They published entire film of episode of him going through exam. Dr. Czeisler worked with astronauts for 25 years to help them adjust their sleep while in space. They trained the astronauts how to set up the recording system so they could see different stages of sleep they were in while in space. (ABC7)

The Portland Trailblazers consulted with him after they lost a series of East Coast basketball games, he said. He was able to give their players strategies for being sharper when traveling across time zones. He's worked with the Rolling Stones on their sleep problems, he said. Musicians are vulnerable since they are traveling across time zones and usually "all keyed up" to perform at night, he said. Czeisler developed a program for NASA to help astronauts deal with sleep issues in orbit, where they have a sunrise and sunset every 90 minutes. Other clients include major industries that are concerned about night shift workers falling asleep on the job, the CIA, Secret Service and the U.S. Air Force, he said. (CNN)

Dr. Czeisler said there are about 800,000 physicians in the US. He was elected one of the members of the Institute of Medicine. Dr. Czeisler belongs to several professional societies. He testified before Congress in a panel of shift workers discussion. Dr. Czeisler published over 120 original reports in peer review journals, which are all new researches. The doctor works with industries that typically work around the clock and workers who have problems sleeping during the day/work at night.Dr. Czeisler has worked with nuclear power plants workers, police forces, firefighters, federal air marshals, CIA, secret service, others. He worked with pilots in the operation desert storm, where most flights were at night. (ABC7)

Dr. Czeisler has served as expert witness before, testified in less than a dozen cases. Dr. Czeisler is being paid $950 an hour. He's one of Jackson's retained experts. (ABC7)

"Sleep is a very active process, but it's characterized by, and fulfills basically biological needs," Dr. Czeisler explained. Sleep is controlled by the brain, Dr. Czeisler said. Signs of sleep: Reduced activity Posture Eyes closed Reduction in sensitivity, but not a complete loss Reversible loss of conscious. Dr. Czeisler created slides showing how the brain works to help the jury understand how sleep happens. "There's a lot going on in the brain while we sleep," Dr. Czeisler said, explaining it's the time for repair/maintenance of the brain cells. "The average person should obtain 7-8 hours asleep every night," Dr. Czeisler said. Sleep cycle takes about an hour and a half to two hours, Dr. Czeisler explained. You go through a progression between sleeping stages. "Sleep has an architecture to it" Dr Czeisler said. We keep brain cells for life, the brain has to go through offline maintenance process. Dr. Czeisler: That period of repair and maintenance is called sleep. The brain uses 20% of glucose (energy) a day, Dr. Czeisler said. At night, we purge things that are not important and keep the ones that are. Dr. Czeisler explained sleep is essential to consolidate the memory of what we learned during the day in our brain. "We sleep in order to fulfill a series of basic biological needs," Dr. Czeisler explained. Dr. Czeisler: We keep our brain cells for life, we need to repair and maintain the connections because we don't have enough room. Doc: While we sleep, we consolidate our memory, integrate learning, refuel the tank, store energy in cells, which requires brain to be off. The doctor said it was believed that sleep was just necessary for the brain, but it was learned sleep is also necessary for the body. "Regulation of metabolism doesn't go well if we are sleep deprived," Dr. Czeisler said. "If we don't get enough sleep, we are hungrier." The doctor said if we sleep only 4-5 hours a night we use more energy, but because we are awake longer, we eat more and gain weight. "Even fat cells need sleep to metabolize properly," Dr. Czeisler said. Dr. Czeisler said lack of sleep increases appetite, among other things. "Sleep is necessary for life, just like the same way eating or drinking fluid is necessary for life," the expert said. (ABC7)

Jurors appeared quite interested as Czeisler lectured them Thursday on his sleep research, including an explanation of circadian rhythm -- the internal clock in the brain that controls the timing of when we sleep and wake and the timing of the release of hormones
"That's why we sleep at night and are awake in the day," he said.
Your brain needs sleep to repair and maintain its neurons every night, he said.
Blood cells cycle out every few weeks, but brain cells are for a lifetime, he said.
"Like a computer, the brain has to go offline to maintain cells that we keep for life, since we don't make more," he said. "Sleep is the repair and maintenance of the brain cells."
An adult should get 7-8 hours of sleep each night to allow for enough sleep cycles, he said.
You "prune out" unimportant neuron connections and consolidate important ones during your "slow eyed sleep" each night, he said. Those connections -- which is the information you have acquired during the day -- are consolidated by the REM sleep cycle. Your eyes actually dart back and forth rapidly during REM sleep.
"In REM, we are integrating the memories that we have stored during slow eyed sleep, integrating memories with previous life experiences." he said. "We are able to make sense of things that we may not have understood while awake.
Learning and memory happen when you are asleep, he said. A laboratory mouse rehearses a path through a maze to get to a piece of cheese while asleep.
A basketball player's area of the brain that is used to shoot a ball will have much greater slow eyed sleep period since there is more for it to store, he said. They shoot better after sleep. (CNN)

It takes 17 days before an animal dies if deprived of food, Dr. Czeisler said. Study shows that rats sleep deprived became scrawny, disheveled, unable to maintain body temperature, Dr. Czeisler testified. Rats deprived of all sleep died on 21 days, rats selectively deprived of sleep died in 37 days. Recovery occurred in 1-3 days in those rats. If deprived, animal is no longer able to maintain body temperature, Dr. Czeisler explained. (ABC7)

Rapid eye movement sleep (REM) is necessary, Dr. Czeisler said. Its deprivation affects cognitive function, ability to consolidate memory. Adverse impact of sleep deficiency on cognition: Slowed reaction time; slowed reflexes, Impaired balance, Increased distractibility, Impaired judgement, Impaired memory, Impaired creativity, Increased risk of lapses of attention. Increased risk of automatic behavior, Increased risk of falling asleep, Fast and sloppy (speed/accuracy trade off). (ABC7)

250,000 people a day fall asleep at the wheel, Dr. Czeisler said. "People take chances they would not take when sleep deprived," Dr. Czeisler explained. Dr. Czeisler said even if someone has taken a shower and put on make up, we can recognize lack of sleep by looking at their picture. (ABc7)

Adverse impact of sleep deficiency on mood: Increased emotional volatility, difficult focusing sustained attention, increased risk of burnout, depression and suicidal ideation, euphoria/slap-happy, somatic complaints, anxiety, paranoia. "You may not be able to hold your emotions in check," Dr. Czeisler explained. Dr. Czeisler described the brain and what each area does. (ABC7)

"They will make 10 times as many mistakes if they are sleep deprived," Dr. Czeisler said. "When we are sleeping, were going through and replaying the events," Dr. Czeisler explained. "We are actually practicing what we learned." You need to sleep the night after you learned a task in order to absorb it, Dr. Czeisler said. (ABC7)

Dr. Czeisler testified sleep deprivation is used as a method of torture to get confessions. "It's so exhaustive and so painful to be sleep deprived," Dr. Czeisler explained. Some say it is by far the worse type of torture. Koskoff: Sleep deprived people look for ways to get sleep? Dr. Czeisler: Yes (ABC7)

"Insomnia is a complaint of difficulty of sleep in either falling asleep, staying asleep or waking up too early," Dr. Czeisler explained. "They may have negative associations with bedroom or sleep that may prevent them from sleeping," Dr. Czeisler explained about insomniac. Dr. Czeisler said there are 3 billion hours a week of video game playing, which affects the sleep because of over activity in the brain. If irregular sleeping, it's necessary to look into sleep hygiene: Poor sleeping environment, caffeine usage (16 hour half life), darkness. 70% of parents put TVs in children's room to help them asleep but it actually interfere with sleep, Dr. Czeisler said. (ABC7)

Insomnia could be secondary to medicine use or substance abuse. Dr. Czeisler: Once you're taking sleeping pills for a series of nights, now you can't sleep without them. Your sleep is actually worse. Dr. Czeisler said cognitive behavior therapy is used to treat insomnia, where a psychologist identifies the problem. The expert said this is a multi-week therapy with personalized approached. It's proven effective, even more than drugs, Dr. Czeisler said. If it is secondary to anxiety, doctor might consider give some anxiolytics, Dr. Czeisler explained. In order to treat insomnia, the first step is to figure out what the disorder is, Dr Czeisler said; sleeping disorder is a treatable disease. (ABC7)

"Propofol is not sleep medicine," Dr. Czeisler said. "It is an anesthetic." "Even thought it's the brain they are anesthetizing, they have not been monitoring the brain," Dr. Czeisler said about anesthesia. Dr. Czeisler: There are a series of experiments to understand the extend from which its similar or different from sleep. "Propofol appears to dissipate the drive for sleep," Dr. Czeisler testified. AEG atty said there's no reference in Dr. Czeisler's 78 pages resume of Propofol study, asked judge to not allow his testimony. Attorneys discussed extensively about Dr. Czeisler's competence to testify on Propofol vs sleep. Judge admitted his opinion conditionally. (ABC7)

Jackson may be the only human ever to go two months without REM -- Rapid Eye Movement -- sleep, which is vital to keep the brain and body alive. The 60 nights of propofol infusions Dr. Conrad Murray said he gave Jackson to treat his insomnia is something a sleep expert says no one had ever undergone. Propofol disrupts the normal sleep cycle and offers no REM sleep, yet it leaves a patient feeling refreshed as if they had experienced genuine sleep, according to Dr. Charles Czeisler, a Harvard Medical School sleep expert testifying at the wrongful death trial of concert promoter AEG LIve. If the singer had not died on June 25, 2009, of an overdose of the surgical anesthetic, the lack of REM sleep may have soon taken his life anyway, according to an opinion by Czeisler. (CNN)

Genuine sleep: Actively generated by the brain; Fulfills biological needs; Readily reversible reduction in sensation;,Readily reversible loss of conscious awareness, Can be easily awakened, Cycles between two behavioral states: REM and non-REM sleep, Sensitive to pain.(ABC7)

Propofol anesthesia: Drug-induced coma, Doesn't fulfill needs, Profound unresponsiveness, No consciousness, Cannot be awakened until gone, No REM sleep, NREM sleep abnormal, Isoelectric EEG in deep, Insensitive to pain, Dissipates the sleep drive without fulfilling the sleep need. (ABC7)

Czeisler -- who serves as a sleep consultant to NASA, the CIA and the Rolling Stones -- testified Thursday that the "drug induced coma" induced by propofol leaves a patient with the same refreshed feeling of a good sleep, but without the benefits that genuine sleep delivers in repairing brain cells and the body. "It would be like eating some sort of cellulose pellets instead of dinner," he said. "Your stomach would be full and you would not be hungry, but it would be zero calories and not fulfill any of your nutrition needs." Depriving someone of REM sleep for a long period of time makes them paranoid, anxiety-filled, depressed, unable to learn, distracted, and sloppy, Czeisler testified. They lose their balance and appetite, while their physical reflexes get 10 times slower and their emotional responses 10 times stronger, he said. (CNN)

"When you go under anesthesia, you are going into induced coma," Dr. Czeisler said. "There's no FDA approved reversal to Propofol, you need to metabolize it in order to wake up," Dr. Czeisler explained. (ABC7)

"If you didn't get REM sleep yesterday, you'll have REM rebound tonight, you might fall directly into sleep," Dr. Czeisler said. Dr. Murray: Ironically, Propofol anesthesia in sleep deprived animals, they don't have rebound, it destroys the drive for sleep. "They wake up feelings refreshed, it has dissipated their sleep drive, but not their sleep need," Dr. Czeisler said about Propofol. "They feel like they had a great night, but they haven't had any sleep at all," the expert said. Genuine sleep fulfills biological needs, but Propofol sleep dissipate the sleep drive, the doctor explained. (ABC7)

Dr. Czeisler said there are no intravenous medication approved to treat insomnia. Dr. Czeisler: Demerol is an opioid and it increases sleep propensity. It's not the same as anesthetic. "The sleep that you are getting is generated by the brain, not by the drug," Dr. Czeisler explained. Demerol is a sedative, normally used in association with surgical procedure to address pain. Demerol dissipates some of your biological drive for sleep, if slept for hours during the day it will be more difficult to sleep at night. Withdrawal of Demerol is a secondary type of insomnia. "It can increase insomnia," Dr. Czeisler explained. (ABC7)

Koskoff gave a very long hypothetical using all the examples that happened with MJ. Defendant's objected, judge held another long sidebar. (ABC7)

Jackson lawyer Michael Koskoff asked his expert what may also be a record breaker in a trial -- a 15-minute-long hypothetical question.
He was asked to render an opinion based on a long list of circumstances presented so far in the trial about Jackson's condition and behavior, including:
-- That Murray administered propofol to Jackson 60 consecutive nights before June 22, 2009.
-- That Murray began to wean Jackson from propofol on June 22, 2009, and gave him none of the drug on June 23.
-- That a paramedic who tried to revive him the day he died initially assumed he was a hospice patient.
-- That show producers reported Jackson became progressively thinner, paranoid and was talking to himself in his final weeks.
-- That the production manager warned Jackson had deteriorated over eight weeks, was "a basket case" who he feared might hurt himself on stage and could not do the multiple 360 spins that he was known for.
-- That show director Kenny Ortega wrote Jackson was having trouble "grasping the work" at rehearsals" and needed psychiatric help.
-- That Jackson needed a teleprompter to remember the words to songs he had sung many times before over several decades.
-- That show workers reported the singer was talking to himself and repeatedly saying that "God is talking to me."
-- That Jackson was suffering severe chills on a summer day in Los Angeles and his skin was cold as ice to the touch.
AEG Live lawyers objected to the question because the information about Murray's nightly propofol treatments was derived only from the doctor's statement to police after Jackson's death. The judge previously ruled that statement was inadmissible. It was a ruling made earlier in the trial when Jackson lawyers objected to AEG's use of Murray's statement that he believed he was Jackson's employee, not AEG Live's.
The statement could be used if Murray, who is serving a prison term, is brought into testify. But that is unlikely since the doctor has said he would impose his constitutional protections against self-incrimination as long as the appeal of his conviction is pending.
Jackson lawyers could clear the way for use of the statement by withdrawing their objection, something they are now considering.
Koskoff told the judge that his expert would testify that Jackson's symptoms perfectly matched what he would expect from someone who had been given long-term propofol treatments. (CNN)

 

[ivy]

Jacksons vs AEG - Day 35 – June 21 2013 – Summary

Katherine Jackson is not in court.

Dr. Czeisler Testimony

Jackson direct

He told the jury he had been working on reviewing the records since January for 1/2 day every week. (ABC7)

The expert testified that his review of Jackson's medical records convinced him that the singer suffered a chronic sleep disorder that "was greatly exaggerated" while he was on tour or preparing for a tour.(CNN)

Czeisler said that Jackson's insomnia was not disabling most times, but was exacerbated when he was on tour or preparing for one. “The key issue in this case is that his insomnia, his sleep disorder was greatly exacerbated when he was on tour," he said. "It was rather mild when he was not in tour mode or tour preparation mode. It was disabling to him when he was on tour or preparing to tour.” (LATimes)

Dr. Charles Czeisler, who has both an MD and a PhD, testified that propofol brings on "a drug-induced coma" that is far different from sleep. Not only does it not satisfy the body's need for sleep, it dissipates the sleep drive, "leading to a massive sleep deficiency." "That is what I believe happened in the case of Mr. Jackson," Czeisler testified. (LATimes)

A lawyer for Katherine Jackson summarized the evidence used to form the basis for Czeisler's opinion in a 17-minute, 1,833 word question that caused the trial to grind to a halt on Thursday afternoon and Friday morning. Michael Koskoff's inquiry was posed as a hypothetical question to Czeisler that included a summary of testimony, passages of emails shown to jurors and other evidence presented during trial. A judge said the question contained details that are inadmissible in the trial and misstated several other details. Superior Court Yvette Palazuelos opted not to strike the question from the record but allowed Koskoff to clarify it. That process took another 19 minutes on Friday. Attorneys spent roughly an hour arguing over the structure of the lengthy question, leaving jurors waiting for nearly 30 minutes on Friday. Czeisler earned more than $250 listening to the initial question, and more than $300 listening to Koskoff clarify it. (AP)

Jackson lawyers revised the question Friday morning after AEG Live lawyers objected to the information about Murray's nightly propofol treatments, since it was derived only from the doctor's statement to police after Jackson's death. The judge previously ruled that statement inadmissible. (CNN)

Instead, they brought up evidence that Murray ordered more than four gallons of propofol between April and June, which Czeisler said equaled 155,000 milliliters of the drug. An anesthesiologist uses between 20 and 30 milliliters to induce a coma for surgery, he said. (CNN) Dr. Czeisler testified that Dr. Conrad Murray had ordered over 4 gallons of Propofol during April, May, and June. He further stated that a common dose for surgery was 20 to 30 cc's. In Dr. Czeisler's opinion the autopsy shows MJ's level of propofol to be that of a person going through major abdominal surgery. (ABC7)

Czeisler testified that in April, May and June 2009, Murray ordered more than four gallons of propofol. "It's a stupendous amount," he said. The sleep expert testified that according to the toxicology report, the amount of propofol in Jackson's system was what you would expect of a patient undergoing major abdominal surgery. (LATimes)

In reviewing correspondences between members of the crew, the Doctor believes MJ is showing signs of chronic sleep deprivation. Those symptoms include weight loss, confusion, memory difficulties, paranoia, and anxiety. (ABC7)

Michael Jackson's inability to learn new dance moves and remember the lyrics to his songs were symptoms that the singer was totally sleep deprived by the time of his death, a sleep expert told a jury Friday. Charles Czeisler said reports by workers on Jackson's ill-fated comeback concerts that the entertainer was losing weight, exhibiting signs of paranoia and his condition seemed to be deteriorating were consistent with someone who hadn't gotten any real sleep in a long time. The sleep deprivation was likely caused by Jackson's use of the anesthetic propofol, which Czeisler said would put the singer in a drug-induced coma and not meet his body's need for actual sleep. Studies showed that similar levels of sleep deprivation resulted in the deaths of laboratory animals and would likely cause the death of a human, he said. Czeisler relied heavily on summaries of testimony provided by a plaintiff's lawyer and emails from choreographers and others working on Jackson's "This Is It" tour to form his opinion. The testimony detailed Jackson's missed rehearsals and reports that he was picking up dance moves slowly, as well as that he requested a teleprompter to display lyrics to his songs. "The meticulous detailing of his deterioration here was both profound and sad," Czeisler said. (AP)

He said that the symptoms Jackson exhibited, laid out in emails and testimony from people watching him during rehearsals for the 50 concerts scheduled for London were "consistent with what you might expect to see in someone suffering from total sleep deprivation over a chronic period of time." He said the emails provided more detail than those kept by scientists during their observations. "The meticulous detail of his deterioration was both profound and sad,” Czeisler said. Those symptoms included loss of weight, paranoia, anxiety, difficulty with balance, difficulty regulating his body temperature and asking for a teleprompter for lyrics to songs he had been singing for years. The doctor said the fact Jackson asked for the teleprompter "was shocking and indicated to me the profound impact this sleep deprivation was having on his memory.” Asked by Michael Koskoff, an attorney for the Jacksons, what had caused the problems, Czeisler replied, "No. I believe Mr. Jackson had a sleep disorder and it was a chronic sleep disorder." (LATimes)

He said it was astounding that MJ couldn't remember the words to his own songs. (ABC7)

Dr. Czeisler said he was also astounded that Jackson couldn’t sing his own songs without the help of a Teleprompter. “The most successful performer of all time had to read the words to his own songs, shocking, and indicates to me the profound impact that this sleep deprivation was having on his memory,” testified the doctor. (CBSLA)

Total sleep deprivation can kill a lab rat in 80 days and he said he doesn't know and hopes to never know how long in a human. (ABC7)

Propofol disrupts the normal sleep cycle and offers no REM sleep, yet it leaves a patient feeling refreshed as if they had experienced genuine sleep, according to Czeisler. If the singer had not died on June 25, 2009, of an overdose of the surgical anesthetic, the lack of REM sleep may have taken his life within days anyway, according Czeisler's testimony Friday. Lab rats die after five weeks of getting no REM sleep, he said. It was never tried on a human until Murray gave Jackson nightly propofol infusions for two months. Translating that to a human, Czeisler estimated, Jackson would have died before his 80th day of propofol infusions. Murray told police he had given it to him for 60 nights before trying to wean him off it on June 22, 2009 -- three days before his death. (CNN)

In his opinion, if he had been properly diagnosed for his sleep disorder, it would not have interfered with his tour or many in the future (ABc7)

Finally, Dr. Murray clearly was not fit or competent to diagnose or treat MJ’s sleep disorder. (ABc7) He said that Murray, an internist and cardiologist, "was clearly not competent to diagnose or treat Mr. Jackson’s sleep disorder.” (LAtimes)


AEG cross

On cross-examination by AEG defense attorney Kathryn Cahan, the researcher acknowledged that he hadn't reviewed actual testimony from the case, including statements from AEG executives that they thought the singer appeared fine and had stellar rehearsals before his death. Czeisler, who is being paid $950 an hour for his work on the case, said he reached his opinion after reviewing deposition transcripts, medical records and other evidence shown to jurors. (AP)

He testified MJ's Doctor had a conversation with MJ about the stress of tour. In that conversation they talked about his problems sleeping (ABC7)

On cross examination, Dr. Czeisler acknowledged that the evidence showed two doctors tried to convince Jackson to seek a medical specialist for his sleep disorder and he refused.(CBSLA)

The Doctor also said no one could make MJ get treatment - not his children or his business partners. (ABC7)

The Doctor said the relationship between anesthesia and sleep is a new area of study. Much info has come out since MJ died. (ABC7)

Each of the symptoms MJ was experiencing - weight loss, paranoia, memory lapse, etc can all be caused by something other than no sleep (ABC7)

AEG Attorney Questioned Dr.Czeisler that he did not know exactly how often or what manner MJ was given propofol in the last 2 months of life. Dr. Czeisler conceded that the only night he knows MJ was given propofol was June 24th, 2009. He died the next day. (ABC7)

AEG Attorney asked the Dr. what was the cause of death on the autopsy report and it was propofol intoxication...not sleep deprivation. Dr. Czeisler did however interject after the AEG Lawyer finished questions that in an NTSB investigation there are contributing factors (ABC7)

Dr. Czeisler believes that a fit and competent Doctor would have gotten MJ help and he would have made it through the tour (ABC7) The extreme nature of Jackson's sleep deprivation would have shortened the singer's life unless he received appropriate treatment, Czeisler said. With proper treatment, Jackson could have continued to tour and perform for many years, he testified. (AP)


Jackson redirect

On recross the Doctor said he believed MJ got Propofol every night all night for the 2 months before his death. (ABC7)


--------------------------------------------

Monday court starts at 1:30 PM with Gordon O Matheson of Stanford University testifying.

 

[ivy]

Jacksons vs AEG - Day 36 – June 24 2013 – Summary

Katherine Jackson was in court.

Dr. Paul Earley video deposition (continued)

Early is an addiction medicine expert. He is an AEG -retained expert, but Katherine Jackson’s lawyers are playing his deposition. AEG’s attorneys say they expect to call Dr. Early to the stand later in the case. (AP)

Kevin Boyle: Do you think Demerol addiction caused MJ's death? Dr. Earley: I do not (ABC7)

Dr. Earley opined that benzodiazepines alone were not the cause of MJ's death, but the synergy with propofol was fatal. After reviewing MJ's medical record, Dr. Earley opined: "There's evidence of addiction to opioids dating back to early 1990s." However, Dr. Earley said he didn't think there was sufficient data to reach a conclusive opinion about MJ being addicted to Propofol. Opioids dependency start when they're used, Dr. Earley explained. He said the single largest contributor is genetic. It matters whether your parents had substance abuse or dependency disorder, but not true in 100 percent of the cases, Dr. Earley said. Other contributing factors for opioid dependency: psychological issues, early life trauma, access to drug, alcohol abuse. (ABC7)

Dr. Earley said Michael was a man whose reputation, skills, wonder exceeded 99% of the people in the planet, so it was hard to say no to him. "I'd like to say I wouldn't have done what other doctors did" Dr. Earley testified. "Prescribing MJ's Propofol ultimately caused his death". (ABC7)


Dr. Earley conducted a case study with 22 Propofol dependent individuals. The study was funded by AEG Live. Dr. Earley said the withdrawal of Propofol can cause depression, insomnia and irritability. Dr. Earley: MJ most likely had some baseline insomnia, which was worsen by the use of benzodiazepine and Propofol use. "When you take away the Propofol, you have insomnia," Dr. Earley explained. People can be irritable, don't have chills, some had seizures. (ABC7)

Dr. Earley: Chills is very generic symptom and could mean anything: flu, cold, low blood sugar, lots of different reasons people have chills. (ABC7)

Dr. Earley: Discontinuing opioids cold turkey is not life threatening, it can be done. Before we had detox drug, that's what I would do. Dr. Earley explained the current practice to treat opioid dependency is to use a drug called buprenorphine (suboxone). "I saw evidence MJ was treated with buprenorphine, I think by doctor Saunders," Dr. Earley said, but couldn't remember the dates. Dr. Earley said he did not see any record that Dr. Murray treated MJ with suboxone. (ABC7)

"When people are addicted to Propofol, you just stop it," Dr. Earley said. "Discontinuing it is not life threatening." Occasionally, Dr. Earley had to give sedative drugs because patients are agitated and irritable. (ABC7)

"Benzodiazepine requires cautious, careful taper," Dr. Earley said. Some individuals are very sensitive, it's very difficult to get off." Detox is difficult, slow but safe and preferred. "I don't make my medical decisions based on corporate decision," Dr. Earley testified.( ABC7)

"MJ was taking opioids for a prolonged period of time," Dr. Earley said, which decreased his prognosis. (ABC7)

Dr. Earley: His legendary status caused people to, unfortunately, set aside boundaries. Also, the fact MJ was providing financial resources to family made it harder for an intervention, Dr. Earley opined. MJ was extremely secretive regarding his style, would not talk about drug use to all physicians treating him, Dr. Earley testified. Dr. Earley said if he were to treat MJ, he would have tried to understand if family could stand behind him not obtaining drugs. He would also explain the need for prolonged period of rehab, more than 3 months and less than year treatment. Dr Earley would prescribe naltrexone, alternative ways to manage pain. He would close down access to opioid, contact every doctor, pharmacy. Dr. Earley said he would've given MJ skills called drug refusal, unearth tragic secrecy surrounding his life, which contributed to his death. Dr. Earley testified he saw no evidence the family gave MJ drugs."I'm completely clear his family wanted nothing but to help him." One intervention failed because Michael Jackson appeared quite healthy, Dr. Earley said. "The problem comes from the issue of power," the expert testified. "It's much more difficult to treat a patriarch than the patriarch's son." Dr Earley: I'm not inferring the family was getting/giving him drugs. There's zero evidence of that, they wanted nothing but the best 4 him. (ABC7)

"Addiction is a biological disease, once it gets going overrides a lot of decision making," Dr. Earley explained. (ABC7)

Boyle: Was MJ's death all his own fault? Dr. Earley: I dedicated my career to take care of addicted people in this planet.
Dr. Earley: I will stand strongly against someone saying it was the addict's fault.
Dr. Earley: I will stand strongly against someone saying it was the addict's fault.
Dr. Earley: However, it doesn't mean addict doesn't have to take charge of recovery at some point
"No, I don't believe it's proper to blame the addict," Dr. Earley expressed. (ABC7)

"There was secrecy, hiding, one doctor not talking to another, that's the kind of stuff we saw," Dr. Earley said. (ABC7)

Dr. Earley testified some people can overcome addiction with very little initial motivation. Dr Earley: Everyone gets motivation from different source. Some by professional reasons, other by family, getting their pride/name back. Dr Earley: Universally was stated in the record MJ's dedication/compassion to his children, wanting the best for them, desire to be good dad. Dr. Earley said he remembered some statements in the record that MJ wanted his children to see him perform, wanted to be a good parent. (ABC7)

"Addiction memory is a expression I coined," Dr. Earley said. "The brain learns automatically how to maintain the addiction." "Unfortunately, doctors became a source of drugs for him," Dr. Earley opined. "Having doctor with him, prescription pad, was dangerous." (ABC7)

Dr. Earley: I saw nothing on the record showing that in the last two months of his life any doctor, but Dr. Murray, gave him PropofolDr Earley: Being around physicians triggered drug craving inadvertently and power was inverted. MJ was in the power seat cause of his status. (ABC7)

That concluded Dr. Earley's video deposition

Dr. Gordon Matheson, a conflict of interest specialist, Jacksons expert.


Jackson direct

Matheson is an expert in sports doctors and conflicts of interest. He teaches at Stanford University and is a team physician. Matheson is a Canadian and was educated there. He started out as a doctor in Inuit communities and has been at Stanford for 19 years. Part of Dr. Matheson’s work is to work with Stanford athletes, keeping them healthy. He’s also been team physician for NHL’s Canucks. He also served as the team physician for the Canadian hockey team for 8 years. Fun fact from Dr. Matheson: Stanford as won 2 ½ times as many Olympic gold medals as the country of Canada, he said. (AP)

Dr. Matheson is a physician, works at Stanford University, Professor in the School of Medicine, sports medicine. Dr. Matheson work splits between teaching, research and medical care. He has written about 150 articles for professional publications. Sports medicine is the care of athlete involved in competitive endeavors and physical activity, nutrition and health, Dr. Matheson explained. Dr. Matheson was recruited to Stanford to take care of their sports medicine program and their athletes. He has worked with Canadian hockey team, Olympic games as medical officer and looked after university teams prior to Stanford. (ABC7)

He explained what a conflict of interest is in the sports medicine world. He said it’s when there are 3 interested parties in medical care. He said in sports medicine, there may be conflicts between the patient, the doctor and the coach or team administrator, agents, etc. Matheson said financial gain is one potential conflict of interest, but so are reputation, status, recognition. (AP)

"In clinical practice it's you and patient," Dr. Matheson said. "But in team practice you have 3 way parties: patients, coach, agent, etc". "The minute you have a three way party there may be conflict of interest," Dr. Matheson opined. (ABC7)

Dr. Matheson said conflict of interest is circumstances that create risks that decisions may be unduly influenced for secondary interest. "When someone stands to gain, it stands to affect their decision-making," Dr. Matheson explained. (ABC7)

Dr. Matheson worked with former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice at Stanford in the conflict of interest area. Dr. Matheson said Dr. Rice loved football, and her quote was that if she were a man, she would play football. (ABC7)

Dr. Matheson never testified as a witness before. He's been paid $500/hour, got information with colleagues on what to charge. (ABC7) Matheson, who has never been an expert witness, said he is being paid $500 an hour. (AP)

Dr Matheson never worked in music industry but said one of the most obvious relations between sports/musicians is the 3 way party scenario. "I think Mr. Jackson's performance was highly physical, similar to what an athlete does," Dr. Matheson expressed. (ABC7)

He said assuming that Dr. Murray was hired by AEG Live, it appears there was a conflict of interest in his care of Michael Jackson. Part of that conflict was created by Murray's debts and his expected $150k/mo. payday. Another conflict source was his contract w/ AEG. Matheson said since the contract allowed for Murray's services to be terminated if the tour was postponed or canceled, that was a conflict. Dr. Matheson: "When Mr. Jackson’s health deteriorated, I think that conflict of interest played out." (AP)

Bloss: Do you believe there was conflict of interest between MJ and AEG? Dr Matheson: Yes, I do. I believe they created conflict of interest. Dr. Matheson said he believes Dr. Murray was in a conflicting position, promised payment he was to receive to get MJ ready. "Contract made him answerable to AEG," Dr. Matheson said. "It could be canceled if the tour were canceled or terminated. "When MJ was deteriorating, I think that conflict of interest played out," Dr. Matheson said. Dr. Matheson: "I think in this case the conflict of interest led to poor medical decisions." "The contract was negotiated," Dr. Matheson opined. "I think Dr. Murray was operating under the assumption the contract was enforced." (ABC7)

The Stanford doctor, who worked as the team physician for the Vancouver Canucks professional hockey team and the Canadian Olympic hockey team, said it didn’t make a difference that AEG didn’t sign the contract because the terms had been negotiated, and that Murray was “fully engaged” and had passed on his bank information to the company so he could get paid. “Whether it was signed or not didn’t change my feeling as to whether there was conflict of interest,” he testified. Matheson pointed to a line in the contract that said Murray was to “Perform the services reasonably requested by Producer.” The language he said, tied Dr. Murray to AEG even though his was supposed to be looking after Jackson’s health, creating a conflict “as to which of the interests is primary.” AEG has argued that the contract Murray signed was one of the three or four drafts and that “Producer” was one of several mistakes that would have been corrected in the final version of the contract. Matheson wondered why Murray would close his practice when he faced losing his job caring for Jackson if the show were canceled, especially since he was in such bad financial straits. “It can produce a bias in the thinking where Dr. Murray wants to preserve that income at all costs and keep the people paying that income happy,” he said. (LAtimes)

"It's a lot of money to be paid to a physician, particularly a physician who was deeply indebted," Dr. Matheson testified. "I think Dr. Murray needed to be paid certain amount of money, because he owed a lot of money," Dr. Matheson said. (ABC7)

The director of Stanford University’s sports medicine program testified Monday that Michael Jackson’s doctor for his “This Is It” concert series, who administered a fatal dose of the anesthetic propofol to the singer, had conflicts of interest with the tour promoter that “were likely to lead to poor medical decisions.” Testifying in the wrongful death case brought by Jackson’s mother and children against promoter and producer AEG Live and two of its executives, Dr. Gordon Matheson said Dr. Conrad Murray’s debts meant he badly needed the $150,000 a month he was supposed to receive. Matheson testified that the contract made him answerable to AEG rather than his patient, and that because he would have been out of a job if the 50 concerts had been postponed, Murray was more likely to want to please the company. Matheson, who has an M.D. and a doctorate, said that when Jackson’s health deteriorated, “that conflict played out.” (LATimes)

Dr. Gordon Matheson, the director of the sports medicine department at Stanford University, testified as an expert in medical conflicts of interest Monday.After reviewing testimony and evidence in the case, Matheson concluded that AEG Live created a conflict of interest because the contract it negotiated with Murray to serve as Jackson's personal doctor for $150,000 a month "was likely to lead to poor medical decisions." Matheson, the team doctor for Stanford's athletic department, compared it to a football coach telling a team doctor on the sidelines in the fourth quarter of a big game that a star quarterback has to go back in the game despite a suspected concussion. Murray, who had closed his clinics to take the job and was $1 million in debt, would be inclined not to resist the AEG Live executives' pressure to get Jackson to rehearsals despite evidence of his failing health, Matheson testified. Murray himself was conflicted because the negotiated contract was structured so that he answered to AEG, but it also could be canceled if the tour was canceled, he said. "I think that conflict played out as Michael Jackson's health began to deteriorate." (CNN)

"When doctors take on roles, you want them to make independent medical decisions not tied to secondary interests," Dr. Matheson explained. Dr. Matheson said the contract was subject to immediate termination if show was canceled or postponed. Dr. Matheson: It can produce bias in thinking, the doctor wants to retain that payment and please the producer paying him. "That conflicts which priority is primary: MJ or producer of shows," Dr. Matheson explained. (ABC7)

Matheson spent much of his later testimony going through emails he said supported his conflict of interest determination. The doctor focused on emails sent by Kenny Ortega on June 14th, and also the 'trouble at the Front' emails from June 20, 2009. (AP)

Bloss talked about emails exchanged. On 6/14/09 Ortega asked who was responsible for MJ's nourishment, advised doctor didn't allow rehearsal. Dr. Matheson said the email pointed some health concerns that needed attention, questioned if physician was making independent decisions. As to Phillips' email saying AEG was paying doc salary email: "That very directly relates to the intent to control the doctors' decision." "The email shows lack of independent decision," Dr. Matheson said about Phillips' email. "The result of a conflict of interest could be a bad medical decision," Dr. Matheson explained. (ABC7)

The pressure increases as you get close to the end of the game, for example, Dr. Matheson said. "If MJ was unable to rehearse or perform, the show would stop completely," Dr. Matheson said. Bloss: What impact would that have on Dr. Murray? Dr. Matheson: He wouldn't have a job and he wouldn't have an income."Doctors should be able to make independent medical decision on what the best care is for the patient," Dr. Matheson expressed. (ABC7)

Regarding chain email "Trouble at the Front": Dr Matheson said he was intrigued Hougdahl needed to qualify he wasn't being 'a drama queen'."Basket case is a strong word, doubt is pervasive is fairly strong statement," Dr. Matheson said. Phillips responded "we have a real problem here," which Dr. Matheson said showed Phillips recognized there was a problem with MJ. Ortega's reference that 'we brought Dr. Murray into the fold' shows Dr. Matheson that there's a full alignment with the way they thought. But it also showed it wasn't working, MJ was still weak and showing psychological problems, Dr. Matheson explained. Phillips' response 'I will call you when I figure this out' showed that Phillips was in charge, Dr. Matheson said. "We wouldn't normally put an athlete back in the game while their health was declining," Dr. Matheson explained. As to Phillips writing Dr. Murray is extremely successful and doesn't need this gig, Dr. Matheson reacted: "The fact that Mr. Phillips realizes that's important, to me he realizes there's a potential for conflict in this scenario." (ABC7)

Matheson said he got sense of Conrad Murray's debt from Detective Orlando Martinez's testimony, investigation. He said Murray's expected payday was problematic because he was in such deep debt (about $1 million), and it might bias his care of Jackson. He drew a distinction between the June 14 email in which Murray held Jackson back from practice, possibly for good medical reasons versus the June 20, 2009 conversations in which Murray apparently told AEG that practice would keep MJ from deteriorating more. Matheson also pointed to the language in one of Gongaware's emails about reminding Murray who was paying him as a possible conflict. The doctor likened that to a coach telling a team doctor to put an injured player back in a ballgame because it was an important time. Matheson said a later email about bringing Murray "into the fold" showed a conflict. Matheson said it signaled "the removal of independence" (AP)

Matheson discussed several emails written by AEG executives, the tour manager and tour director that have become central pieces evidence in the trial. In one email, AEG Live executive Paul Gongaware wrote of Murray, “We want to remind him that it is AEG, not MJ who is paying his salary. We want him to understand what is expected of him.” Matheson said the email “relates directly to attempts to control the doctor’s decision-making or professional judgment.” He likened it to a quarterback being pulled from a game in the fourth quarter because of an injury and the team owner pressuring the doctor to put him back into the game by reminding the physician that he was paying his salary. “We wouldn’t normally put an athlete back into the game when they had worsening symptoms related to their health,” he said. The sports medicine expert said that in order to avoid conflicts, the doctors for Stanford athletic teams are in charge of an athlete’s healthcare. He said they also teach or perform research at the university so their decisions about athletes don’t affect their income. He said there is a separate facility away from the coaches where players and doctors can have confidential discussions. Matheson said that an email from AEG Live Chief Executive Randy Phillips showed he was aware of the potential conflict with Murray but did not believe one existed. In the email he wrote that Murray “does not need this gig he [is] totally unbiased and ethical.” (LATimes)

 

[ivy]

Jacksons vs AEG - Day 37 – June 25 2013 – Summary

Katherine Jackson was in court

Source : all of the below is from ABC7.

Dr. Gordon Matheson

Jackson direct

Bloss asked about email from Phillips to Ortega on June 20. Phillips was recognizing the decline of Jackson's health, Dr. Matheson opined. "It's also evident that there are conflict of interest issues," Dr. Matheson expressed. About Phillips saying 'The doctor is successful, completely unbiased.' Dr. Matheson said that tells exec was aware of conflict of interest. Matheson opined the email demonstrates “pushback” - Not good for a producer or team owner to be involved directly with the player or artist. As to email "he was shaking, couldn’t cut food, no shape to go on stage” Dr Matheson reacted: "It's indication health concern is serious".

Dr. Matheson - “First and foremost we want an understanding of what the problem is. That is what leads us to the proper treatment.” Dr. Matheson said Phillips was trying to diagnose the problem, yet Jackson was being put back in rehearsal; that is a concern. As to Phillips saying "Take the doctor with you", Dr. Matheson said it means AEG wanted to have some input, influence in the meeting. "It would have been inappropriate, shows AEG still wanted to manage the doctors decision," Dr. Matheson testified.

As to 'Trouble at the Front' email where Phillips says Dr. Murray 'is not a psychiatrist so I am not sure how effective he can be..." Dr. Matheson: It says Phillips is not sure, first says it's covered, then he questions doctors effectiveness. Dr. Matheson said emails showed it was business as usual, continued pushback. Kenny’s hysteria is in check. Dr. Matheson said Phillips put forth information regarding a health problem with MJ, qualified by Ortega hysteria. Dr. Matheson: When you get information, you need to act on that information rather than label it as hysteria.

Bloss asked if an athlete doesn’t want to get out of the game, what should a doctor do. "The role of the physician is to make the right decision for the short term and the long term," Dr. Matheson said. "May have to do it over the objection of the player," Dr. Matheson explained.

Bloss: Does the fact that AEG hired Dr. Murray at the behest of MJ make a difference?
Dr. Matheson: AEG chose to set up that structure and they didn’t have to do that
Bloss: How about the fact AEG would be repaid through the proceeds of the tour?
Dr Matheson: The conflict of the interest is still present

Dr. Matheson: Although we expect all professionals to act in the best interests of the patient, their judgement is often affected.

AEG cross

AEG's attorney Jessica Stebbins Bina did re-cross of Dr Matheson. Bina asked if Stanford reviewed his credit prior to his hire. He said no.

Bina: In general a 50 year old man is competent to chose his personal physician?
Dr. Matheson: Yes

Bina: Dr. Murray was just going to treat MJ and family, not Kenny Ortega or others on tour?
Dr. Matheson: Yes

Bina: It was everyone’s interest to play the entire show?
Dr. Matheson: Yes

Bina asked if Dr. Matheson is an expert in general medical ethics. He answered no.

Dr. Matheson explained plaintiffs chose him because there was a 3 way relationship analogous to the sports industry. Dr. Matheson reviewed Det. Martinez' testimony, half of Mr. Phillips' testimony (3 days), Kai Chaise and Travis Payne's testimony.

Bina: You are not an expert in the concert industry?
Dr. Matheson: No.
B: Never worked in entertainment industry?
Dr. M: No

Bina: You said it's the system's responsibility, but it's physician's responsibility to place the patients welfare first?
Dr Matheson: Yes

"If conflict of interest develops, it must be resolved to the patient's interest," Dr. Matheson opined; doctors have duty to patient.

Bina: If MJ demanded propofol, begged, Dr. Murray violated his duties? Assuming he did that, did he violate his duties?
Dr. Matheson: Yes

Bina: Average Medical school grad has $200,000 in debt
Dr. Matheson: Yes. Just to become a doctor is expensive

"No injuries are expected in performance as in typical team sports," Dr. Matheson said. "The physician's concerns are not going to be the same as treating a football player," Dr. Matheson explained.

Bina: Was MJ able to consent to that relationship?
Dr. Matheson: Yes, but signature line put him in contract as a participant
Bina: The only way to structure a deal would be to give $1.5 million up front?
Dr. Matheson: Should structure deal so termination and cancellation are not incorporated in deal
Bina: Do you know how the deal for Celine Dion’s doctor is structured? Or Rolling Stones?
Dr. Matheson: No

Bina: If you were setting up a tour in Europe, what would you sent up for ethical arrangement?
Dr. Matheson: I would set up a staff, conduct a comprehensive medical assessment

"Ethically you'd want an assessment of the artist," Dr. Matheson said. "It would require a team of people because there are various aspects". That is for assessment initially, Dr. Matheson explained. "Then for the tour I would hire a team of people to provide care during the tour." Dr. Matheson: I would get people who have expertise in a particular area, develop a particular group in London.

Bina: A group only?
Dr. Matheson: It is hard to imagine only one person.

Bina asked if MJ told AEG he'd want to bring his personal doctor on tour, what should AEG have done. Dr. Matheson: AEG should have said we are not experts in medical care so we want to get experts in medical care to make an assessment.

Bina: Would that eliminate the conflict of interest?
Dr. Matheson: It would minimize conflict of interest

"I found the lawyers to be very supportive of evaluating records and making my own decisions," Dr. Matheson said.
Bina: Is it fair to say that you are making more money because you agree with the plaintiffs?
Dr. Matheson: I don’t need this job

Bina: What if AEG just fronts $34 million?
Dr. Matheson: Dr. Conrad Murray would be still conflicted
"Dr. Murray would still be beholden to AEG," Dr. Matheson opined.

Dr. Matheson: My understanding is that Murray's treatment was episodic not regular.

Bina talked about May 2009 and asked if people were concerned about MJ's health. Dr. Matheson: "I don’t know if people had concerns about his health. I think people had concerns about the show."

Bina: If MJ said I want to bring my long term doctor on board, your opinion is that AEG should have said No you cannot?
Dr. Matheson: Yes
Bina: Are you aware of Gongaware's testimony on effort to get MJ to agree to London doctor but MJ saying no. AEG should not have done that?
Dr. Matheson: No. I wouldn’t. The conflict of interest is too high
Bina: Even when you believe the artist is healthy?
Dr. Matheson: It creates a risk

Bina: Is it possible to have doctor ethically go on tour with artist?
Dr. Matheson: It's possible if the conditions are right

"I don't think it's possible under the terms of this case," Dr. Matheson said.

"The greater the conflict, the increased likelihood of bad decisions will be made," Dr. Matheson opined. "He had a choice,"Dr. Matheson said. "That choice may have been to forfeit his job."

Bina: If I pay for my health care by credit care, does the credit card has the right of dictating my health care?
Dr. Matheson: No

Dr. Matheson said he's spent 100 hours on this case. He's making $500/hour, which adds up to $50k so far.

Dr. Murray's contract said 'Perform the Services reasonably requested by Producer.' Bina said the contract was supposed to read "by Artist". Dr. Matheson said if there was no reference to service requested by AEG, that sentence wouldn't be part of his opinion. "To me, this is a document that indicates what the intention was," Dr. Matheson said.

Dr. Matheson said he had to fill out a lot of forms and take a test to obtain his license in the US. Dr. Matheson is originally from Canada.

Agreement required Dr. Murray to have malpractice insurance.

Bina: Isn't the real problem in this case not Dr. Murray's feelings towards AEG, but that he gave in to Michael Jackson?
Dr. Matheson: That's part of the conflict, yes
Bina: There's nothing wrong with concert promoter to ask if there was anything they can do to help?
Dr. Matheson: Not if used those terms

Conflict of interest happened if there was influence on decision making, Dr. Matheson explained.

Bina: So you think it's appropriate for producer to dictate MJ's care?
Dr. Matheson: Phillips was the one receiving the information
Bina: But, presumably, MJ went home his doctor, right?
Dr. Matheson: There's no record of that
Bina: Do you think Mr. Phillips has the right to question MJ's health?
Dr. Matheson: Phillips has the right to say I'm concerned with your health, you can't come back to rehearsal until you're checked out.

"We want you to see a doctor before you come back," Dr. Matheson said Phillips could have told. If Jackson denied it, they should have had a discussion about it, Dr. Matheson opined. Dr. Matheson said he wasn't suggesting Phillips forced MJ to go to their doctor, but they could've taken him to ER for another set of eyes.

If MJ was severely stressed about the tour, Dr. Matheson said the producers have to listen to artist. "The artist knows their body better." Murray said he had the situation under control. The issue was that he wasn't reliable, Dr Matheson explained; he was very heavily conflicted. "Conflict of interest contributed in a very significant way in Dr. Murray's standard of care," Dr. Matheson opined. "Conflict of interest was set up, physical symptoms appeared and there was an attempt to control those," Dr. Matheson explained.
"Likely that was not a friendly meeting, that was a confrontational meeting," Dr. Matheson said about meeting where Dr. Murray left angry. Dr. Matheson:

The concern should be for the artist's health. Dr. Matheson: Any time symptoms are brought forward, there's a need to be paid attention to. In this case they weren't.

Dr. Matheson said he reviewed other depositions with exhibits attached prior to his own deposition. As to Dr. Finkelstein, Dr. Matheson said he recalls Gongaware discussed possibility of doctor going on the tour with a couple of conditions.

Dr. Matheson said he doesn't believe the analogy Bina offered regarding credit card paying for your health care is related to this case.

"It's hard to leave a practice," Dr. Matheson said. He said it takes a long time to build the practice, normally doctors sells the practice. Dr. Matheson said it takes much more than 10 days to wind down a busy practice.

"A conflict of interest isn't a single event," Dr. Matheson testified. "It's a set of circumstances that develop over a period of time."

Dr. Matheson said he was not aware of any efforts to send Dr. Murray's contract drafts to MJ's people. "It says to me the agreement was being constructed and negotiated without Mr. Jackson's input," Dr. Matheson opined. "It was effectively put in place and the doctor was engaged whether Mr. Jackson signed it or not," Dr. Matheson explained. "I believe AEG indicated, the record indicates AEG acted in way they felt they employed Dr. Murray," Dr. Matheson said. "The conflict of interest environment in this case was severe," Dr. Matheson opined. He's been in this field for 35 years.

Bloss: How many as severe as the one here?
Dr. Matheson: None

Dr. Matheson said the record shows Dr. Finkelstein didn't get the job because MJ wanted to bring his own physician.

Bina: It wasn't in Dr. Murray's interest to keep MJ unhealthy
Dr. Matheson: No

As to Dr. Murray buying Propofol, Dr. Matheson said "I think AEG Live enabled it, yes."

"Conflict of interest erodes judgement unconsciously in a way you're not even aware of it," Dr. Matheson explained.

--------------------------------------------------------
Prince, TJ and Taj Jackson will be the next witnesses.

 

[ivy]

Jacksons vs AEG - Day 38 – June 26 2013 – Summary

Prince arrived with Katherine, TJ and Trent Jackson.

Michael Jackson Jr. Testimony

Prince's wearing a dark suit and dark tie, white shirt. (ABC7) Before his testimony, Prince sat in a chair in the “well” of the courtroom, looking around and taking everything in. The "well" is the area where attorneys and the court reporter sit. Prince sat across a barrier from his grandmother. Katherine Jackson, Trent and TJ Jackson all sat in the front row of the audience. All stood to greet the jury when they came in at 9:55 a.m. (AP)

Jackson direct

In court, Prince wore a black suit with a dark grey tie with his long brown hair tucked behind his ears. He spoke softly as he began testifying, and the first exhibit shown to jurors was a photo taken with their grandmother on his and Paris' first day of school. He described his school life, including taking a summer course in U.S. history, participating on the school's robotics team and volunteer work. (AP)

The first 15 minutes of Prince Jackson’s testimony were dominated by family photos, videos. He said he helped pick them out for trial. Lots of photos were shown throughout Prince Jackson's testimony, including one of him, Paris and their grandmother on 1st day of school. (AP)

Jackson's attorney Brian Panish did direct examination. Prince Michael Joseph Jackson sworn in at 9:57 am PT. "Michael Joseph Jackson, Jr." Prince was originally named after the family name, but then his brother Blanket was born and they called him Prince. (ABC7)

Panish: Are you nervous? Prince: A little bit (ABC7)

He said he was born on Feb 13, 1997, he's 16 years old. Prince was born at Cedars Sinai Hospital. Prince said Paris he's 15 years old, born on Apr 3, 1998. Prince Michael Joseph Jackson, known as Blanket, was born on Feb 21, 2001; he's 11. (ABC7)

Prince said he attends Buckley School in Sherman Oaks, has just finished up sophomore year. Prince is taking US History class in the summer, a very compact course. He belongs to the National honor society, received artistic award. Prince used to play football and basketball, did martial arts. In school Prince works with metal. He said he's the mechanic, there is a team that design robots and they compete nationally. Prince said he has a 3.68 GPA. He said education is something important to him because it is something his dad taught them. Prince wants to go to college at USC to study either Film, or Mechanical science or business. Prince described how Michael taught him to find the good shots in movies, encouraged him to learn about films. MJ's son said community service is required in school and he does it at the Children's Hospital in LA. He described how he brought books and read to the kids that were in the cancer wards. Prince said he wants to help out as much as he can, got the desire to help from his father. (ABC7) "He always said you should give back to the community and to give back as much as you can," Prince said. "I got my desire to give back from my father." Prince added that his dad always told him "everything is a learning experience...always learn from your experience." (Eonline)

The testimony by Prince Jackson began with the teenager showing jurors roughly 15 minutes of private family photos and home videos. He described growing up on Neverland Ranch and showed the panel videos of the property's petting zoos and other amenities. After his father's acquittal of child molestation charges, Prince described living in the Middle East, Ireland and Las Vegas. (AP)

Another image shown to jurors was Michael Jackson playing piano with his son while Prince was still an infant or toddler. Plaintiff's attorney Brian Panish asked Prince whether he was interested in pursuing a career in music."I can never play an instrument and I definitely cannot sing," Prince said to laughter from the jury. (AP) He can't sing and he can't play an instrument, he noted, and added that his father suggested he could become an actor. (Today)

Prince said MJ always dressed them up so when he grew up, he could show his kids how he looked when little (ABC7)

Prince said he lived in Neverland and in France. Neverland was a property his dad owned and he lived there until he was 6 years old. "After the criminal case there were some complications in the house from the police; I guess they ruined the house for him" Prince testified . About Neverland, Prince explained: "When my dad bought the house, he built it for the kids he wanted to have, he built it for us." Prince said that Neverland was a family home, that everyone was family, from housekeeper to nanny. He said they had amusement park and zoo. Prince said Neverland's zoo had pet giraffe, alpacas; amusement park, poetry his dad wrote. "We only went there (amusement park and zoo) for special occasions, because my dad wanted us to remain humble," Prince said. (ABC7) One video showed a giraffe and several alpacas in the Neverland Zoo. "I never really went near them because they would spit on us," Prince said. (CNN) "I guess they ruined it for my dad," he said of the investigators handling the molestation case and why it led his father to leave Neverland. He said the fireplaces were always on, and so was classical music when the family lived at Neverland Ranch. (AP) His attorneys showed home movies and photos of Neverland, which Prince called "a very homey place." He said the children were only allowed to go to the zoo and ride the Ferris wheel on special occasions. "My dad wanted us to remain humble," he said. Posted around the compound, he said, were messages and poems from their father.“When children play, tyrants cry, there is nothing to say,” said one. (LATimes)

Prince said MJ loved making films of them. Panish showed several home movies and pictures of the children and Michael. MJ wrote the song"The Lost Children" for his children, Panish played clips of the song. (ABC7)

Prince said that after Neverland they travelled a bit: went to Bahrain, Ireland, Dubai, Aspen and New York for a little, and then to Vegas. "My dad had a lot of business, not just music, and he wanted to take us, he didn't want to leave us," Prince testified. Nanny changed from time to time, but mostly it was Grace Rwamba, Prince said. (ABC7)

"He (MJ) wanted to know what we were learning," Prince said. "He wanted to know how we were doing in school, how we could better the world." (ABC7) Prince Jackson said he would spend six days in school, either with his father or a tutor, learning about other cultures and religions. His father would ask them how they were doing in school and what they were doing “to better the world.” (LATimes)

Prince: We wrote a lot of screenplays, my dad taught me how to write scripts, helped me unlock thinking with the right side of my brain. Prince described how he and MJ would first watch movie without sound to learn to find the good shots. "We watched the sound afterwards and he would show how the sound could actually make or break the movie," Prince said. (ABC7) He described his interest in filmmaking as something he and his dad shared. They'd watch movies twice -- the first time on mute. Prince said his father would show him how the scenes were shot, and then impart on him how important sound was on the 2nd viewing. Prince said his dad gave him a necklace with a camera viewfinder on it, so he could see how to compose shots. (AP)

Jurors watched a home video of Michael Jackson questioning his three children about how they planned "to change the world" when they grow up.Prince testified that the video was made at Christmas.
"What's Christmas mean?" Jackson is heard asking his children.
"Love," Blanket responded.
"Who's Blanket going to be to change this world?" Jackson asked.
"I don't know," Blanket, who appeared to be about 5 at the time, answered.
"What does Paris want to do? Be honest search your heart," Jackson said.
"Help the poor," she answered. Paris also said she would like to be a gymnast.
Prince told his father he aspired to be a movie director and architect because he liked "making things." [CNN]

Plaintiff's attorney Brian Panish then showed a video of the kids on Christmas attorney. Jackson asked them what they wanted to do in life. Blanket said he didn't know. Paris said she wanted to help the poor.Prince: "I’d like to be a movie director and an architect." Paris also said she wanted to do something artistic, like gymnastics. (AP) Panish showed a Christmas video, where MJ is asking the kids what they wanted to do in life. He told Paris to search your heart. Paris said she wanted help the poor, and be a gymnast. Prince testified that day was the first time his dad taught him how to tie a tie. "Every time he would ask how we would help the world," Prince said. "Most my work ethics I learned from my dad." (ABC7) What's more, Prince noted he got his work ethic from the late pop star, stating, "If he wasn't working, he got depressed." (Eonline)

Panish asked if Prince would describe his father as "lazy." "I don't think he ever sat and did nothing, we were always running, exercising, he would teach me how to drive," Prince responded. (ABC7)

He told the jury that his father was always working, but his children had no idea he was a global superstar."We always listened to his music, but we never knew how famous he was," Prince said.He said he and his sister Paris watched a video of one of their father's performances and got a sense of his fame when overwhelmed fans were carried from his shows on stretchers. (AP). Prince said he really didn't know how famous his dad was until he watched movie of MJ's concert with girls crying, taken out in stretchers. "We always listened to his music, but we never knew how famous he was," Prince said. (ABC7) Prince said he and his brother and sister grew up not knowing how famous their father was. “He never wanted us to know,” he said. Prince said he and Paris discovered their dad’s fame after watching a video of one of his concerts. “We always listened to his music, but we never knew how famous he was,” Prince Jackson said. (AP)

Panish inquired about the masks the children wore while with MJ in public. "He used to make sure no one would know how we looked like; when we went out no one would recognize us, we could be normal kids" Prince said. Panish: Was your dad protective of you? Prince: Very (ABC7) His father, he testified, made all of them wear masks in public “so no one would know what we looked like so if we went out without him we could have a normal childhood.” Prince said he's now followed all the time."So I know why he did it. (LAtimes) "When I was little, the masks were annoying," he said. "It was hot and the feathers were always in my face but now that I'm older, I understand why he did it." (Today)

Prince said Grace worked with MJ before he was born then came on as nanny after his sister was born. She worked with them for about 12 years. (ABC7) Prince was asked a couple times about Paris now. He said she was having a rough time. He was asked about the deposition clip of Paris that was played earlier in the trial in which she related a story about nanny Grace Rwaramba Prince said he saw Grace and Paris together recently. “They were happy,” he said. (AP)

He then related the family receiving Kenya, their chocolate Labrador, on a Christmas morning a few years ago. Prince said his father was terrified of dogs, but wanted his children to have one. (AP) Plaintiff’s attorney Brian Panish then played a montage of the song “You Are My Life” played over several photos and a video. The video showed Prince, Paris and Blanket excitedly receiving Kenya. The montage was first shown during opening statements, but is now officially part of the evidence in the case. (AP)

Panish played clip of song "You are my life", which MJ wrote for the kids. Prince watched. Next Panish played video of the Christmas when kids got their chocolate Labrador dog named Kenya. Panish: How did you feel then? Prince: Very happy. Panish: How did you feel when you, your brother, sister and dad were living in Vegas? Prince: That was happy for us. Prince said they lived in a hotel before moving to Carolwood before Christmas 2008.(ABC7)

Prince talked about MJ's dealings with AEG and Dr. Tohme: "No, from what he (MJ) told me he wasn't happy with it." "He was very excited about the tour, this would've been probably last time we would be able to see him perform," Prince expressed. Prince said he saw MJ perform once when he was little. Prince said MJ would come home from rehearsal, he just wished he had more time to rehearse and have more time to prepare. (ABC7)

Prince then described his father’s feelings toward the “This Is It” tour. He said he wasn’t happy with the terms. Prince said his father was excited about performing the “This Is It” shows, but wanted more time to rehearse. Michael Jackson was excited about the prospect of performing for his children, and knew it would probably be his last tour, Prince said. “He just wished he had more time for rehearsals,” Prince said about the "This Is It" shows. (AP)

Prince saw MJ on the phone. Most of the times, it was with Randy Phillips or Dr. Tohme. "He'd get off the phone, he would cry sometimes," Prince said. "They are gonna kill me, they are gonna kill me," Prince said MJ would say. "He (MJ) would say "they are gonna kill me, they are gonna kill me", Prince testified, referring mostly to AEG and Randy Phillips, and Tohme. (ABC7) Prince then described seeing his father while he was talking on the phone with AEG Live CEO Randy Phillips. He said his dad would get upset. “He would cry sometimes,” Prince said of his dad’s conversations with Phillips. He said his father once told him “They’re going to kill me.” (AP) On Wednesday his son Prince said Jackson was upset on the phone "a lot of time," most of the time with AEG Live chief Randy Phillips. "He would cry sometimes. He said: 'They're gonna kill me, they're gonna kill me.'" Asked who he was talking about, he said: "People in AEG, Randy Phillips." (AFP)

Prince that his father was excited about going back on tour before his death but wasn't happy about the terms of the ill-fated shows. Prince Jackson told jurors his father wanted more time to rehearse and had several tense phone conversations with promoters of his "This Is It" shows that sometimes ended with his father in tears.The 16-year-old said his father remarked after one of the conversations, "'They're going to kill me,'" Prince testified. He did not elaborate.(AP)

"After he got off the phone, he would cry," Prince Jackson testified. "He would say 'They're going to kill me, they're going to kill me.'" His father told him he was talking about AEG LIve CEO Randy Phillips and his ex-manager, Dr. Tohme Tohme, Prince said. (CNN)

"My dad didn't fight, he was like my grandma, too kind to fight, that's why he called my grandpa," Prince said. (ABC7)

Prince: When at the Bel Air Hotel, my dad tried to fire Dr. Tohme. He got in a fight on the phone, yelled. Prince: We applauded him, we didn't like being around him (Dr. Tohme), he brought bad energy to us. (ABC7)

"My dad was always optimistic," Prince said. (ABC7)

Prince said he first met Dr Conrad Murray in Vegas. "He came over to our house to treat us for multiple sickness, cold and things like that". Prince said he remembers Cherilyn Lee coming to the house to give his dad IVs. He said he thought it was vitamins. "Dr. Murray came over every day, except Sunday night. He spent the nights," Prince said. "I saw him give my dad IV injection once, I thought it was vitamins," Prince recalled about Dr. Murray. Prince said that when Dr. Murray first started treating MJ he would do it in the library, and later on in the master bedroom upstairs. (ABC7) The 16-year-old told how Murray acted as the family doctor, treating the children for minor ailments. In the months before his death Murray "would come every day, except Sunday night," he said, adding that: "I saw him give my father IVs (intravenous drips) of clear liquid.... I saw IV holders and oxygen tanks" in his bedroom, he said. (AFP)

Panish: Did your dad write notes?
Prince: All the times, on mirrors, bathroom doors. Sometimes it was song lyrics or messages he got down from religious or spiritual leaders (ABC7)

Prince showed where his bedroom was. Paris had her own, Blanket would go back/forth between their bedrooms. (ABC7)

Prince said Blanket excels in school. (ABC7)

Prince then testified about the Carrolwood mansion. He said it was his understanding that his dad kept his bedroom locked. He said one time he tried to go into his father’s room, and it was locked. His dad was doing a meditation session on Skype, he said. (AP) "To my understanding the door to his bedroom was locked" Prince said. "When I tried I think he was meditating on Skype w/ person from India" (ABC7)

Prince also talked about seeing oxygen tanks in the home. He said they weren’t hidden and were visible to anyone downstairs. Prince on Conrad Murray: “I was 12, to my understanding he was supposed to make sure my dad stayed healthy.” (AP)

Prince said he saw IV bags and oxygen tanks at the house. Panish: Did you think it was weird to have oxygen tanks?
Prince: No, I was 12 and to my understanding he (Dr. Murray) was supposed to make sure my dad stayed healthy. (ABC7)

Prince said he never saw Murray's treatments of his father. "I was 12. To my understanding he was supposed to make sure my dad stayed healthy," Prince testified. (AP)

He then talked about Conrad Murray. He said it was his understanding from his dad that AEG was supposed to be paying Murray but wasn’t. Prince said his dad would give him and Paris a few hundred dollars occasionally to give Murray. Murray wouldn’t take the money directly from Michael Jackson, Prince said. He said the doctor would only take half the cash. (AP)

Prince said AEG wasn't paying Murray and MJ felt bad. "My dad used to give me couple hundred dollars to give to Murray," Prince testified. "I'd give him but he'd only take a portion of it" Prince recalled. He said money was to help Murray with the basics like food, water and gas. (ABC7)

After discussing Murray, Prince talked about AEG Live CEO Randy Phillips. Plaintiff's attorney Brian Panish then asked Prince if he ever saw Randy Phillips at the mansion on Carrolwood Drive. He said yes. Prince said he saw Phillips would sometimes show up when his father wasn’t home. He said he saw Phillips talk to Murray twice. He described a tense meeting in which Phillips seemed “aggressive” and was grabbing Murray by the elbow. Prince said he couldn't remember exactly which night he witnessed this tense meeting between Phillips and Murray. Prince said he thought he saw Phillips on the night of June 24, 2009, but he didn’t remember the exact date. He also said Phillips would sometimes come with Jackson’s on-again, off-again, manager, Tohme Tohme. (AP)

Phillips would come either with Dr. Tohme or some other man to his house, Prince said. "I saw him talk twice to Dr. Murray," Prince testified. "He was grabbing his elbow and looked aggressive to me.". "He (Phillips) was grabbing him (Dr. Murray) by the back of the elbow, they were really close," Prince recalled. Panish: Did it surprise you? Prince: Yes. Prince said MJ was in rehearsals either the night before or 2 nights before he died, Phillips showed up at the house to talk to Dr. Murray. "I came in and asked if they'd like something to drink or eat," Prince said. "Randy Phillips was talking to Dr. Murray, grabbing his elbow." As to Dr. Tohme, Prince said: "From what I heard he's not even a real doctor." "I was surprised they were all in the house," Prince said. "I hadn't seen Dr. Tohme in a while, I still didn't like him." (ABC7)

Prince said that he saw AEG Live CEO Randy Phillips at the family's rented mansion in a heated conversation with his father's doctor in days before his father's death. The teenager said he wasn't sure what day the conversation occurred, but that he saw Phillips grabbing former cardiologist Conrad Murray's elbow. Phillips "looked aggressive to me," Prince said. Michael Jackson wasn't at home at the time and was probably at rehearsals, Prince said. (AP)

Prince testified that Phillips visited Jackson's rented Los Angeles mansion and spoke aggressively to Dr. Conrad Murray the night before his father's death. "He was grabbing his elbow," Prince said. "It looked aggressive to me. He was grabbing by the back of his elbow and they were really close and he was making hand motions." He couldn't hear what Phillips was saying to Murray, he said. Michael Jackson was not there because he was at his last rehearsal, Prince said. He called his father from the security guard shack telephone to let him know Phillips was there. His father asked him to offer Phillips food and drink. Prince said that was his last conversation with his father. Prince was 12 when the pop icon died, but he said his father confided in him about whom he trusted and didn't trust and what he feared as he prepared for his comeback concerts. (CNN)

[Murray's attorney Valerie Wass and AEG defense attorney Marvin S. Putnam later denied outside court that the meeting Prince described ever happened. Putnam said Prince would be re-called to the witness stand during the defense case later in the trial. "I think as the testimony will show when he is called in our defense that's not what happened," Putnam said. "He was a 12-year-old boy who has had to endure this great tragedy." (AP)]

"From my perspective back then I thought he was healthy," Prince said about MJ. A few weeks later, Prince said MJ was working a lot and looked really, really skinny, almost malnourished. Prince: Sometimes he would be really cold. Sometimes really hot. He was not strong enough. (ABC7) The teen recalled that while preparing for the 2009 tour, his father would sometimes come down the stairs and be "freezing cold" and "not strong enough." Jackson looked "malnourished," his son said. (Today) In June 2009, Prince said his father was acting differently. “He ate by himself a lot,” he said of that time period. Michael Jackson would sometimes come downstairs and complain he was freezing, despite the fact it was summertime, Prince said. Sometimes his father would complain it would be too hot. “His body temperature was up and down,” Prince said. (AP)

Prince said he saw MJ last the day before he died. Last phone conversation was when he called his dad to say Randy Phillips was at the house. (ABC7)

Prince then talked about the day his father died. He said he heard screaming upstairs, then footsteps on the stairs. Prince said he went to see what was going on and saw Murray running back upstairs, then was told by Kai Chase the doctor needed him. Bodyguard Alberto Alvarez ran into the house and Prince said he ran upstairs. “I saw Dr. Conrad doing CPR on my dad,” Prince said. He said his father was hanging halfway off the bed, his eyes rolled back in his head. Paris Jackson was screaming for her dad, Prince said. He said he was crying while all this was going on. He said on the ride to the hospital, he tried to reassure Paris and Blanket by telling that angels were watching over them. Prince said the phrase about angels watching over them was something his father often said. Prince’s eyes were red while he testified about June 25, 2009. He didn't break down. He kept his composure throughout this testimony. Prince said he was optimistic about what would happen with his father, until Conrad Murray came in and told them he was dead. Prince recalls Murray telling him, Paris and Blanket something to the effect of, Sorry kids, dad’s dead. Michael Jackson’s manager, Frank Dileo, was also at the hospital, Prince recalled. (AP)

The day MJ died, Prince recalled being downstairs in the sitting room. He heard screaming coming from upstairs. "I ran into the kitchen, saw Dr. Murray go back upstairs, Alberto just came inside, Kai said Dr Murray wanted me upstairs," Prince described"I saw Dr. Conrad doing CPR on my dad," Prince testified. "My dad was hanging halfway off the bed and his eyes were rolled back in his head". "Me and my sister came upstairs," Prince said. "My sister was screaming the whole time, she wanted her daddy." Kids were escorted downstairs."I was waiting in the bottom of the stairs crying," Prince said. He saw the stretcher take MJ to the hospital. They followed the ambulance."My dad always told us that angels always look out for us," Prince said. He tried to comfort his siblings..Prince said Frank DiLeo and Dr. Murray told them 'sorry kids, dad is dead.' They said it was a heart attack "I just cried," Prince recalled. Sister Rose, my sister, my brother, me, security guard, Dr. Conrad Murray and Frank DiLeo were in the room. (ABC7)

The teenage also for the first time publicly described the day his father died. Prince was summoned to his father's bedroom and saw Murray performing CPR on his father, who was hanging off the bed halfway and it appeared his dad's eyes were rolled up in the back of his head. Prince's eyes appeared red as he described being told by Murray at a nearby hospital that his father was dead. (AP)

On the day of his father's death, Prince Jackson testified that the family chef screamed at him that Murray wanted him upstairs. No employees, except for Murray, were allowed upstairs. "My dad was hanging halfway off the bed and his eyes were rolling back in his head," he testified. "Murray was doing CPR. My sister was screaming the whole time saying she wants her daddy. I was waiting at the bottom of the stairs crying." When they got to the hospital, he told his sister, "Angels were watching over us," and tried to remain optimistic, but then Murray delivered the news that their father had suffered a heart attack. (today)

Prince was then asked about the memorial service in which the children appeared and Paris gave a heartfelt speech about her father. Prince said Paris’ speech was impromptu. “She just grabbed the microphone and started talking,” he said. (AP) Prince said Paris speaking during the memorial service was not planned. (ABC7)

Prince said he now lives with his grandma, cousin Trent, his sister and brother in Calabasas. Prince said they go back to Gary, Indiana for memorial services in the house MJ grew up on. Prince said his grandma Katherine Jackson and cousin TJ are his guardians. (ABC7) "It will never be the same," said the teen who lives with his grandmother, a cousin, and siblings in Calabasas, Calif. (Today)

The court took the morning break, and after that Panish asked Prince about the impact of his father’s death on his life. “Nothing will ever be the same,” Prince said. He said he has a hard time sleeping. He said his father's death had hit Paris especially hard. "She was my dad's princess," he said. He said that he and Paris don't celebrate birthdays anymore. They "wouldn't be the same without him," he said. As for Blanket, Prince said he's not sure he knows what he's lost. He said they're doing best they can as a family. Panish asked: "Do you miss your dad a lot?" Prince: "Yes." (AP)

After MJ died: "I can't sleep at night, have hard time sleeping" Prince said. "For a while, I became emotionally distant from lot of people". Prince said he wished his father was with him 1st day of school, talk about his first girlfriend, being able to drive, see his awards/honors. Panish: Do you think your dad is proud of your robotics work? Prince: Maybe, I tried making him proud. Prince: I think out of my siblings she (Paris) was hit the hardest, she was my dad'd little princess. She's dealing with it in her own way. Panish: Is she going through a rough time? Prince: Yes, she is. "Me and my sister don't celebrate birthdays, it was something we did with our dad," Prince said. Prince: Blanket was so young, my brother is still growing up like I am, he doesn't have a dad to tell him what's right and wrong. "We have someone, but it's just not the same," Prince said. Panish: Do you miss your dad a lot? Prince: Yes (ABC7)
Upon Michael's death, "we had our ways of dealing with it. [Paris] is having a hard time right now," said Prince (Eonline)

"I can't sleep at night," Prince said. "I have a hard time sleeping." The death left him "emotionally distant from a lot of people" for a while, he said. He's missed sharing with his father "the first day of going to school, having the first girlfriend, being able to drive," Prince testified. While Paris Jackson's suicide attempt and hospitalization was not brought up in court -- and it is unclear if jurors learned about it in the news -- Prince did speak about his sister. "I think out of all of my siblings she was probably hit the hardest because she was my dad's princess," he said. Prince said the questioning of Paris by AEG Live lawyers over two days in March was painful for her. "She had some problems before, after and, I assume, during," he said. "She definitely is dealing with it in her own way," her brother said.
Paris, who was 11 when her father died, is not available to testify in person in court because she is hospitalized for psychiatric treatment. While he and his sister no longer want to celebrate birthdays because "it's not the same without" their father, Blanket, now 11, does, Prince said. "Right now, I don't know if Blanket realizes what he lost," he said. "He was so young. He is still growing up just like I am and he doesn't have a father to guide him." (CNN)


AEG Cross

Marvin Putnam, attorney for AEG, did the cross examination.

AEG Live lead lawyer Marvin Putnam's cross-examination of Prince lasted just 25 minutes. It centered on trying to discredit his testimony about Phillips' visit to his home and about cash payments that Prince said his father gave Murray at times. (CNN)

AEG Live defense attorney Marvin S. Putnam did the questioning. He focused on Jackson’s payments to Conrad Murray. Prince said he never saw his dad pay Murray while they lived at Carolwood, but he would give him and his sister money for the doctor. Murray would only take a portion of the stack of $100 bills that Michael Jackson provided, Prince said. Prince: “My understanding is that I don’t think Dr. Conrad didn’t want to take money from my dad because he felt bad.” (AP)

Putnam asked why MJ wouldn't give Dr. Murray money himself. "My dad tried to, but he would've never take the money," Prince said. "I saw my dad offer money to him, but he would never take it," Prince explained. Putnam: Did you father give money to Dr. Murray? Prince: Not directly. Prince: He (MJ) never gave him (Dr. Murray) the cash directly, he would always give it us to give to Dr. Murray. He would only take half."I don't think Dr. Murray wanted to take the money from my dad, he felt bad," Prince said. "Me & my sister would do it," he remembers a couple of times. Prince said in depo it was about 10 times, but Murray would not always take it. Prince said MJ started giving Prince and Paris money to give to Dr. Murray while they were living in Las Vegas. (ABC7) Prince also said his father gave him and his sister Paris a stack of $100 bills on a few occasions to give to Murray. The teen said his father told him that Murray wouldn't take the money from him, and the doctor wouldn't take the full amount from the children. The teenager said his understanding was that the money was meant to tide Murray over until he got paid by AEG Live. (AP)

Prince said there was a man chef who took Kai Chase's job in May 2009, then was let go and Chase went back. (ABC7) Prince was asked about a chef who worked at the Carrolwood mansion for the month Kai Chase was gone, but he didn’t know his name. (AP)

Prince said he didn't remember seeing anyone giving MJ's IV, other than Cherilyn Lee. (ABC7)

Putnam: No employees were allowed upstairs?
Prince: Yes (ABC7)

Prince said none of the household staff were allowed upstairs at the mansion, and the singer kept his bedroom locked while receiving treatments from Murray. (AP)

Prince said there was a time in 2009 no one was allowed to go upstairs. Only Dr. Murray could.
Prince testified that not even the housekeeper was allowed to go upstairs. (ABC7)

Prince said that when Cherilyn Lee was treating MJ, she would do it in the open, there was no door to lock.He said when Dr. Murray started, he also did it in the open. (ABC7)

During cross-examination, Putnam played a clip from a deposition of Prince in which the teen said he discovered the bedroom was locked when he and his siblings were playing hide-and-seek and couldn't get inside. (AP) Prince said he learned MJ's bedroom door was locked when he was playing hide and go seek and couldn't get in. (ABC7) Putnam at one point played some of Prince’s deposition. He described trying to playing hide-and-seek but finding his dad’s bedroom locked. Prince said he assumed that the door was locked when his dad and Conrad Murray were in the room together. (AP)

As to Dr. Tohme, Prince said he knew him for about 3 years. He said he never regularly saw him, though. (ABC7)

Prince said he saw Murray and Phillips talking two times. He doesn't remember dates, but thinks the 2nd meeting was the day before MJ died. (ABC7) Prince stood by his story about the Phillips and Murray encounter, although he conceded it could have been two nights before his father's death and not the last night. (CNN)

Putnam showed Prince another portion of his deposition in which he said he talked to his dad the morning after the Phillips/Murray meeting. That would rule out June 24th as the day of the tense exchange, but Prince said today he was unclear on which day the exchange happened. (AP)

Putnam asked Prince about how people got let into Jackson’s mansion, and the teenager dropped a zinger. Prince: “People from AEG, they got let in, but people like my grandpa would get turned away.” (AP) Prince said security would let AEG people and Dr. Tohme in, but "people like my grandpa were turned away." (ABC7)


Jackson redirect

Panish took over questioning again, and he asked Prince about his deposition. It took place on a Saturday, but had to be interrupted. There was a lot of back-and-forth about how long the deposition actually lasted. Then he moved on to another question. (AP)

Prince said in re-direct he wasn't scared during his deposition, apologized to the jury for not wear suit that day; it was the weekend. (ABC7)

After his deposition, Prince said he told TJ that Paris shouldn't be able to do that and go through the questioning."She had some problems before, after and I assuming during her deposition," Prince said.
Panish: She had some emotional problems after her deposition?
Prince: Yes (ABC7)

Prince said Dr. Murray wasn't getting paid and that his dad wanted to help him out until he got paid."AEG was supposed to pay him," Prince said. "Something was going on with Dr. Murray's finance and he wasn't getting paid." (ABC7)

Prince remembered Cherilyn Lee being a nurse. Panish asked if Prince knew what Lee was injecting MJ with."I thought it was for my dad, so he could get the proteins he needed, he was burning so much," Prince responded. (ABC7)

Panish: “Have you ever gone through anything in your whole life like the loss of your father?” Prince: “No.” (AP)


AEG recross

In re-cross, Putnam asked why deposition was on Saturday. Prince said he thinks it was due to school; continued another day.
Putnam: Do you remember your grandma thanking us for being so accommodating?
Prince: I don't remember that (ABC7)


Jackson redirect


Panish: Did you think he was being a lawyer representing his client?
Prince: As a defense lawyer, yes

"It's not how I want to spend my Saturday," Price said about his deposition. (ABC7)

Putnam asked a few more questions about the deposition, Panish asked Prince about his impressions of Putnam and they were done. (AP)

Prince was then excused, subject to recall should AEG choose

[Prince is done testifying. After he left the witness stand, he hugged plaintiff's attorney Deborah Chang. Prince also went over and shook AEG defense attorney Marvin Putnam's hand. Chang sounded like she told him about Prince's grades. (AP)]


Former AEG Inc. CEO and president Tim Leiweke video deposition

(source : all of the below is from ABC7)

Leiweke was the highest employee in the company in 2009. He said they have 130 different companies, 7-8 divisions within AEG.

Kevin Boyle: Are you aware the LA Kings have a team physician?
Leiweke: I would assume we do
"I'm not sure who hires the doctors for the Kings," Leiweke said.
Boyle: Do the doctors work for the team or for the players?
Leiweke: I'm not sure

Leiweke said he didn't remember the email Phillips sent him saying "MJ is locked in his room drunk and despondent.""I got a call from Randy Phillips about the press conference," Leiweke staid. However, he insisted he didn't remember the email."I said that five times, is that good enough?" Leiweke responded.Leiweke said Phillips called to say Michael had a hangover, they were late to get to the press conference and Randy was wound up.A subsequent conversation, everyone had calmed down, Leiweke said. "He was informing me that the press conference was going to be delayed" Leiweke said he was in an important meeting and asked Phillips to fill him in later.

"I knew Randy had production costs issues," Leiweke said. Leiweke didn't remember the exact number they had overspent.Leiweke didn't remember a specific board meeting where Phillips Anschutz was present and the tour budget was the sole topic.

Leiweke said he met Dr. Tohme once or twice in passing. He said he didn't remember ever having a meeting with Dr. Tohme about MJ.
"I remember it was an expensive commitment he as asking us to make," Leiweke said about the This Is It tour."We wanted to make sure that he was healthy," Leiweke said. "I believe our folks had a medical for the purpose of MJ and his health."

Boyle: Did you ever refer to Mr. Anschutz as paranoid scrooge?
Leiweke: I don't remember any specific conversation

Boyle asked if Mr. Anschutz was concerned with ticket scalping. "There had never been in AEG Live anyone scalping tickets" Leiweke responded. "Mr. Anschutz is very tight," Leiweke said. "I don't remember this email but I remember him being concerned tickets were being scalped."

Leiweke met Michael Jackson in person either 4 or 5 times."Michael wanted to tour," Leiweke said about the first meeting. "AEG Live was interested."Second time was in the guest house of Ron Burkle in Los Angeles. Jessie Jackson was there too, Leiweke said.
Boyle: What was the reason of the meeting?
Leiweke: There wasn't really one. We prayed a lot

"Michael asked to meet Mr. Anschutz to talk about films," Leiweke said about the third meeting in Las Vegas.

Leiweke said he never met Murray and/or exchanged emails, calls with him. The exec didn't remember specifically the 1st time he heard of him. Leiweke testified he never saw or heard the name Dr. Murray on pretour budgets.

"I've never seen this email between Randy and Kenny," Leiweke said about the 'Trouble at the Front' email chain.Boyle said the chain was forwarded to Leiweke. The exec apologized and said he doesn't remember ever seeing the emails."We were aware that MJ had missed several rehearsals," Leiweke said.Leiweke wrote email saying "Trouble with MJ. Big Trouble." He testified he didn't remember this specific email.

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Tomorrow's witnesses: TJ and Taj Jackson. Jackson's attorney told us they aren't sure if Paris will testify. It's up to her doctor to ok it

 

[ivy]

Jacksons vs AEG - Day 39 – June 27 2013 – Summary

Katherine, TJ and Taj Jackson are in court.


TJ Jackson Testimony

Jackson direct

Plaintiffs called next witness, Tito Jackson, also known as TJ Jackson. TJ is MJ's children cousin and co-guardian. (ABC7)

Jackson's attorney Kevin Boyle questioning him Boyle: Have you testified before? TJ: I think this is my first time, so I'm a little nervous. (ABC7)

TJ says he goes by TJ Jackson, since his father is also Tito and people would get the two confused. Katherine Jackson is TJ's grandmother. Tito is MJ's brother, member of Jackson 5 with Jackie, Marlon, Jermaine and Michael. TJ is cousin and co-guardian of Michael's children. TJ said he's from Encino, CA, raised there like most of his family. He went to Buckley School in Sherman Oaks, same as Prince attends now. TJ said he has 3 biological children and 2 stepchildren. He has 2 daughters, age 2 and 5, 13 year old son, 19 and 21 year old stepchildren. TJ said he does music with his brothers primarily, he's a third of band "3T." TJ' wife is a fitness trainer, and they have their own fitness center. He's also a real estate broker, has license but doesn't practice. (ABC7)

"My primary things are my kids, my cousins and my family," TJ said. Boyle: So you don't have a lot of free time? TJ: No, I don't (laughs)

TJ and his brothers Taj and Taryll Jackson compose the 3T group. Boyle: I know you're humble, but you sold millions and millions of records? TJ: Yes (ABC7)

TJ lives in Corona, CA. He explained that when he had his son Royal, he wanted to slow down the pace, wanted smaller community feeling. TJ explained Corona is multi-national area. "When I grew up, I was the only black kid in school," he said. "It was sometimes uncomfortable".TJ doesn't go to Calasabas, where the children live, during rush hour. Sometimes he's there for six days in a row, sometimes once a week. TJ testified he's 34 years old and drives a Honda Accord. "I just need something to get from A to B and the Honda has served me well." Prince has a Ford truck, TJ said. No Ferrari, or Porsche, or expensive car. (ABC7)

TJ broke down when Boyle asked him about his relationship with MJ. He bowed his head for a few minutes and cried. TJ: "My mother was murdered a month after I turned 16. My world crumbled and my uncle Michael saved it""He was just, he was there. He kept me inspired, he kept me ambitious, he was just there for me," TJ explained about Michael Jackson. He said he was raised by his brothers, father and when he needed advice he'd turn to his uncle Michael. (ABC7) TJ’s mother Delores, also known as Dee Dee, was murdered when he was 16. “My world crumbled and my uncle Michael saved it,” he said. (AP)

"He was just everything," T.J., bowing his head in tears and needing a minute to compose himself. (NYDailyNews)

TJ said he's teaching MJ's children to be ambitious, be giving, be loving, be honest and to make their mark in the world. (ABC7)
TJ said his uncle gave him advice and tried to provide him with inspiration tried to keep him inspired. “He was just there for me.” He said Jackson bought him and his brothers instruments and fostered their interest in music, but wanted them to earn their careers. (AP)

TJ said MJ wanted him to go to college. He applied at LMU, UCLA and University of Pennsylvania. He wanted to study Business. "I got into all three," TJ said. They are all considered the top Business schools in the country. TJ said MJ wanted him to go, and he regrets turning it down. "He wanted me to go, he just though it was going to be good for me." "My brothers and I were doing quite well touring around the world," TJ said, that's why he didn't go to Wharton School in Pennsylvania. (ABC7) He said his uncle pushed him to go to the Wharton School of Business, but TJ didn’t end up going. He said he regretted it. (AP)

"From the beginning, along with my father, he was there inspiring us," TJ said about uncle Michael. TJ said his mother would call all her children the 3T, which originated the name of the group. "Especially when my mother passed, he took us under his wing and became important part of our success," TJ said about MJ. "I think he wanted us to earn things in our own," TJ explained, saying MJ would not use his power to benefit the group. Boyle showed video of 3T and clip of MJ's song "Why." Boyle: Did you consider your uncle your mentor? TJ: Definitely (ABC7)

"He's always wanted to be a parent," TJ said about Michael Jackson.
"Eventually he did have his kids, and they were everything to him, the joy of his life," TJ testified. (ABC7)

TJ said he never knew how famous his uncle was until he was already grown-up. "On the HIStory tour, I was probably 19, my uncle had a show on a stadium. The whole route there were people clapping," TJ recalled. "That was probably the first time I really realized his impact in the world," TJ said about MJ. TJ: He was very humble, extremely humble, checking on us, talking about school, amazing to see contradiction outside, people cherishing him. (ABC7) He recounted an incident in Spain where people lined the streets for 5 miles to cheer Jackson on. “He was very humble about that,” TJ said. (AP)

TJ told the jury about Jackson’s generosity and how he won $200 in a trivia contest his uncle officiated between TJ and his brothers. (AP)"My uncle was kind of person he would give us some cash," TJ testified. "He's always given couple of hundred of dollars to myself, my brothers and pretty much whomever was around," TJ said. "He would drive around to areas with poor people and would give hundred dollar bills to people to make their lives a little better," TJ said. As to MJ's charities, TJ said he knows about "Heal the World." He said MJ visited hospital around the world, worked with "Make a Wish"."He was very giving of his time, everything that help put a smile on children's face," TJ explained. (ABC7)

"My grandmother is the queen," TJ testified. "She's the CEO and I help her with the day to day stuff (of co-guardianship) as much as I can." TJ said he does a lot of the doctor's appointments, school stuff, extra curriculum activity, deals with security for children. "Because of who they are, it demands a lot of time and energy," TJ explained saying it's not the kids fault but their high profile status. TJ: Grandma is the overseer, she knows everything that happens, she's there every day, making decisions. "If they want to go out it the movie they know to ask grandma," TJ testified. "She's the one to be commended, her life had changed quite a bit as well," TJ said about grandma Katherine. TJ: I don't think I would be able to live properly my life if I didn't try to help my cousins to be who my uncle wanted them to be. "I can't really see myself far away from them until I make sure they are adults and are what they are supposed to be" TJ said about the kids. (ABC7)

Boyle was then asked about each of the children. Of Prince, he said he’s “poised and ambitious” and is extremely smart, reads a lot of books. “I just think the loss of the uncle has hit her at a different level,” TJ said of Paris. TJ then described Paris’ relationship with her dad. He described her as a daddy’s girl who’s struggling with the loss of her father. He said he always thought Prince was his uncle’s little assistant. Blanket was always wrapped his father’s leg, TJ recalled.(AP)

"Prince is an amazing person, very strong, very smart," TJ testified; he was always devouring books, very poised and ambitious, very loving. "Paris has a heart of gold as well," TJ said. TJ on Paris: I think the loss of my uncle has hit her in a different spot. She's having a difficult time, but we're giving her love/support. (ABC7)

TJ talked about the paparazzi. "It's a complete annoyance, it's awful, I feel there should be something done." He agrees with Halle Berry's attempt to create a law preventing paparazzi to follow children. TJ said he supports it 100%. (ABC7)

Scrutiny by paparazzi has made it more difficult for the children of Michael Jackson to grieve for their dead father, TJ told jury.TJ Jackson said the three children don't like the attention, and he supports any legislative effort to curb photographers from pursuing images of the sons and daughters of celebrities. "In my opinion, I know it's making everything harder for the kids to grieve and recover and progress," Jackson said. TJ Jackson said he had to consider whether Michael Jackson's youngest son Blanket should attend martial arts classes on Tuesday because photographers would be interested in getting a shot of the 11-year-old on the fourth anniversary of his father's death. (AP)

"I know it's making harder for the kids to progress," TJ said about the paparazzi. TJ on Paris: It's tough. She was daddy's girl. My uncle was her world, he gave her more love for it to be taken away it's been very hard. "For all of them, but for her more being the princess," TJ said about Paris. "Prince was my uncle's little assistant," TJ said. He is very mature. "I think my uncle knew he would have to be very sharp," TJ said. "Prince had always been mature beyond his years." Blanket was always wrapped around behind MJ's leg, TJ said. "Wherever my uncle was, Blanket was just steps away. "My uncle was everything for Blanket," TJ said. Blanket was either 7-8 when MJ died.(ABC7)

T.J. Jackson said Prince was Michael Jackson's "little assistant." "He was very mature for his age, very smart. My uncle would prepare him for things" by telling him about his business deals. "He's very strong, he's very smart," he testified. "He was always the smartest kid I'd ever known." As a guardian, T.J. Jackson said he must constantly deal with paparazzi stalking the children for photographs. "It's, just to be frank, a complete annoyance," he said. "It's awful." He suggested there should be a new law to protect celebrity children from photographers. "I know it's making everything harder for the kids to grieve and to recover and to progress," he said. (CNN)

"I don't want to go into details on what's going on with Paris now, but could you explain how Paris is handling the loss of her father?" asked Kevin Boyle, one of the lawyers representing Katherine in her wrongful death case against concert promoter AEG Live. "It's tough," TJ said. "She was daddy's girl. My uncle was her world."T.J. acknowledged Michael's death has "been very hard" for all three kids - including Michael’s sons Prince, 16, and Blanket, 11 - but Paris was "the princess of his life.""Paris has a heart of gold," he said of the 15-year-old. "I just think the loss of my uncle has hit her at a different level. She's in a tough spot, but we're all loving her and doing everything we can to get her where she should be." (NYDailyNews)

"The loss of my uncle has hit her at a different level and she's in a tough spot, but we're loving her and doing everything we can," T.J. Jackson testified Thursday. He said he was at a loss for words to describe what Paris is going through. "It's tough, you know, it's tough." "She was daddy's girl," he said. "My uncle was her world. My uncle gave them more love and for it to be taken away, it's been very hard for Paris, and for all of them." Blanket, who was 7 when his father died, "was always wrapped around his leg, very shy," T.J. Jackson said. "Wherever my uncle was, Blanket was a foot away, My uncle was everything to Blanket." (CNN)

TJ said he lived a couple of blocks away from Hayvenhurst, would go out there to grandma's house quite often. "My uncle just cherished my grandmother, named everything after her, from mountain to next house," TJ testified. "My grandma is the queen." "I think my grandmother was everything to my uncle," TJ testified. (ABC7)

TJ on grandma Katherine: It's hard, very hard, it's tough for me as her grandson, don't know what to say or do. I try to help with the kids."Our children is supposed to outlive us, so it's been very difficult on my grandmother," TJ said. (ABC7)

Boyle asked TJ about Kai Chase, his uncle’s chef who now works for Katherine. He says he had no idea she might be a witness in this case. TJ said he hadn’t heard of Chase until Prince, Paris and Blanket asked for her. (AP) Boyle: Who hired Kai Chase back? TJ: It was a suggestion I made. A couple of employees were let go, as co-guardian job to replace cook/nanny. "The kids just liked Kai, they asked for Kai, and I asked my grandmother and she was okay with it," TJ said. Boyle asked if Chase was hired back in an effort to influence her testimony in this case. "Not a chance, it's silly," TJ said. "It's impossible, I did a lot of the legwork to get Kai back," TJ testified. (ABC7)

TJ first heard of Dr. Murray after MJ passed. (ABC7)

After MJ died, Grace Rwamba came back to work with the family, TJ explained. But he said there was a situation where Grace had to move on. TJ: I was a little disappointed she had to. Along with my grandmother, she was the mother figure the kids had in their lives. "I don't know specifically what happened but I think there had been conflicts between Grace and other members of the family," TJ said. TJ said MJ raised the kids differently. They read a lot, didn't watch tv during the week, one movie a week if they earned, TJ explained."Once my uncle passed, they came into my grandma's house in regular society, it was hard to maintain the same lifestyle," TJ expressed. "She (Grace) wanted to maintain, as did my brothers and I, my uncle's child raising," TJ said. (ABC7)

Boyle asked TJ about Paris deposition regarding Grace. Defendant's attorney objected, they went to a sidebar and lunch break. (ABC7)


AEG Cross

Attorney Jessica Stebbins Bina did the cross examination of TJ on behalf of AEG. (ABC7)

Bina asked about Katherine's health problems last summer and if he's aware of any health problems? TJ said no. (ABC7) Her first questions before the lunch break were about Katherine Jackson’s absence last year. Stebbins Bina asked whether he was aware of any health problems Katherine Jackson experienced that prompted her time away. TJ said he’d heard talk about Katherine Jackson having health issues, but he’s not aware of any that she actually has. (AP)

Bina inquired how many times TJ saw or spoke with MJ and the children. He said he spoke with his uncle every other month. TJ definitely remembers seeing MJ at least once in 2009. (ABC7)

Bina asked if TJ draws salary for being MJ's children co-guardian. "It was hard for me to accept it, my grandmother insisted and a couple of months ago I began receiving it," TJ said. (ABC7)

Bina asked about children being more exposed to the media after MJ died, like going on Oprah and Prince working on Entertainment Tonight. "It's difficult, because they are 15 and 16," TJ said. "It's hard to maintain that private life." "It was very important for him to excel in his career," TJ said about Prince. "I didn't release music until I was 16 or 17," TJ said. "I encourage them to be children first." Paris wants to be an actress, Prince says he wants to act then become a producer, TJ explained. Bina: As their guardian you haven't prevented them to be in the public eye TJ: It's hard to do that when he's straight A student with honors. 'If he really wants to do it, 100%, he should be able to do it at 16," TJ said about Prince working on a television show. "I wanted to do for the art of it, I like the quiet, private life," TJ explained."I would say they want to build their own career, and ET is a stepping stone for his acting career," TJ said about Prince. TJ: It's tough, as long as he (Prince) understands his responsibilities and the pitfalls, it's hard to say no (ABC7)

Bina: You didn't go to Carolwood house? TJ: Not before MJ died (ABC7)

TJ said the last time he saw MJ alive was in his grandparents anniversary, where most of the family member were there. Bina notes the anniversary happened on May 14, 2009. "He was in a good mood," TJ recalled. "He was happy, he was talking about the kids, making jokes, that stuff." TJ didn't remember MJ being extremely thin then, but said he wasn't concerned to check it."He was just happy and jolly and I was just happy to see him and the kids," TJ said. TJ: We talked primarily about the children, that I wanted more kids, talked about movies.TJ said before MJ left, he asked him if he was going to London. "I said 100% and he said ok, see you there," TJ testified. TJ said MJ was excited that TJ was going to London. TJ said he didn't know if MJ was happy because of tour or for being around his family. "At the dinner, MJ seemed happy," TJ said. "I don't think he would be sad if he was sad," TJ said about MJ during the anniversary dinner. The only time TJ recalled seeing his uncle in 2009 was at the anniversary dinner. (ABC7) Once testimony resumed TJ testified about Katherine and Joe Jackson’s 40th anniversary party. It was the last time he saw his uncle Michael. He said Jackson seemed happy but they didn’t talk about “This Is It” or music or career issues.TJ said he said goodbye to his uncle Michael, who asked if he was headed to London for “This Is It.” TJ said he would see him there. (AP)

Bina asked TJ about MJ's wedding gift to him, which was $30,000 in cash. "He wanted to pay for my wedding, but the wedding passed," TJ said. TJ reluctantly accepted the gift. Bina asked if MJ was in financial difficulties then and couldn't afford the gift. TJ said he didn't know. Bina: Did you ever talk to your uncle about his finances? TJ: No (ABC7)

Bina: Did you consider your uncle to be a private person? TJ: For the most part, yes (ABC7)

Bina: Did you ever see a doctor on Dangerous tour? TJ: No
"I don't remember seeing a doctor in the HIStory tour either," TJ said. (ABC7)

TJ testified he was familiar with Dr. Metzger. He said he had not heard of the drug Propofol before MJ died. "I've heard many rumors about my uncle that were not true," TJ testified. (ABC7)

Bina: You never personally saw substance abuse? TJ: No
TJ said he didn't believe MJ had a substance abuse problem, never saw him take pills.
Bina asked if TJ thought MJ would've told him if he had a drug problem.
"I don't think he would've told me, but I'm not sure. He told me some things, but I don't think so," TJ responded. (ABC7)

"My cousins and I were going to Lakers game, they wanted to go to ESPN zone before the game, and that's when I met Randy Phillips," TJ said. Bina asked if TJ thanked Phillips for getting them tickets. TJ testified he didn't know he got the tickets. But in his deposition, TJ testified he did thank Phillips for the tickets. (ABC7)

Bina asked about MJ's lavish lifestyle. "It's hard to measure myself against my uncle, he was kind of person who loved art, liked collectibles, liked the best of the best" TJ said. But TJ noted MJ wore pajama bottoms, V necks, and Mickey Mouse watches. "Homes I would say yes, he wanted nice homes. Cars yes and no," TJ explained. (ABC7)

TJ said MJ was very important to him, had a lot of influence on him.(ABC7)

Bina: It's hard for you to believe he could've died of drug overdose? TJ: It's hard for me to know that he's dead
Bina: Do you believe your uncle was murdered? TJ: I do
"He (MJ) did tell me and a couple of his brothers he would be murdered because of his position, because he was a target," TJ said.TJ had conversation with MJ about it during mid 90s to mid 2000s. (ABC7)

Stebbins Bina then asked TJ whether he believed his uncle Michael was murdered. “I do,” TJ responded. Michael Jackson told TJ and his brothers a couple times that he thought he would be murdered, he said. He said he didn't believe it at first. “My mother was murdered for money,” TJ said. “I don’t put anything past anyone.” (AP)

"Do you believe your uncle was murdered?" AEG Live attorney Jessica Stebbins Bina asked T.J. Jackson. "I do," he answered. "I believe it because he did tell me and the brothers that he was going to be murdered on a couple of occasions. "He said that just because of his position he was a target." T.J. Jackson had earlier testified that his mother, Delores Jackson, was the victim of murder 19 years ago. "My mother was murdered for money, too, so I don't put that past anyone," he said. (CNN)


Jackson redirect

In re-direct, Boyle said he wanted to talk about the Lakers tickets. Boyle: Did you know at that time that Mr. Phillips had a secret meeting with Dr. Murray? TJ: I didn't know. TJ said they didn't go with Phillips to the Lakers game, he was just there, at the game zone. Boyle: Do you think Jackson's kids should be allowed to go to the Lakers games? TJ: I think they should go anywhere they want. (ABc7)

TJ said he began acting as the children's co-guardian shortly after MJ died. Boyle: Did you do it for four years for free? TJ: It was out of love. TJ said his grandma convinced him to accept payment because he has three kids of his own that are losing a lot of his time. (ABC7)


Taj Jackson testimony

Jackson direct

Deborah Chang did direct examination.Taj, real name Tariano Jackson, II is 39 years old. He is the first grandson. "I was spoiled with love, let's just say that," Taj said. (ABC7)

Taj said he was close to MJ. "My uncle, besides being my musical role model, he was like an older brother to us," Taj explained. "He guided our lives, he was everything," Taj said about MJ. "I feel lost some times because he's not here." "When my mom passed, he stepped in and made sure our whole world didn't crumble," TJ said about MJ. MJ helped us with school, Taj said, paid for his college. He encouraged his nephew do it for his mother, to make her proud. Taj said his mother and father were very much in love, but separated. "They loved each other, I never understood the problem." "My mom really looked up to my uncle, leaned on him a lot," Taj testified. "He loved the way that she raised us." "It was known she put us first," Taj said. Dolores (DD) Jackson was Taj's mom's name. (ABC7)

Taj said he stayed at Neverland many times. "Neverland to me, he (MJ) always let us know, it was to help people," Taj explained. "My uncle didn't eat candy, it was for the sick children he was bringing to Neverland," Taj explained. Taj said MJ would take hundreds of people from Make a Wish foundation. "He wanted to make them better, he felt that he could." Ryan White became poster child for HIV/AIDS Taj said. This was during the time we were all terrified about it; Ryan was kicked out of school."They had a really strong relationship," Taj said, explaining MJ took Ryan to Neverland, went into the pool with him. "It was Disneyland," Taj said about Neverland. "He named the train station after my grandma, Katherine. There's a plaque with her name." After Ryan White died, Taj said MJ dedicated the song "Gone Too Soon" to him. Chang played the video clip of the song. (ABC7)

Taj: Michael taught us that being a musician and having the influence not only to make music but to make a change in the world. "He was constantly trying to help people," Taj said, adding there were lots of things the media didn't know about MJ. (ABC7)

“I was the first Jackson to go to college, he was so proud of that," Taj said. Taj also attended Buckley School, went to Loyola Marymount college, studying Music, Film and TV. He needs to finish the last year of school. Chang: Was he your mentor? Taj: Yes, definitely. Taj said his dad Tito was his mentor at baseball. He coached their little league team. (ABC7)

Taj said he shared three things with MJ: Music, Film and the Three Stooges, which Michael loved. "He bought me my first camera," Taj said. He shot home video of his mother and brothers while she was still alive in 1994. "I keep my most sentimental things in my safe," Taj explained about a note he has from MJ. Note: Taj, I saw these and thought they were perfect for you. Love always, Uncle Doo Doo (ABc7)

Taj said MJ was very close with Lionel Richie. Played snippet video of 3T. Taj co-directed their last video for album brotherhood. Chang played a snippet of it, quite funny video. Some jurors were laughing. Chang: Was your uncle proud of you? Taj: Yes, very proud (ABC7)

Taj said he lived at Neverland for 6 months. He said his grandma was there all the time. (ABC7)

Taj said MJ asked him to help raise the children. Taj said he was just about to begin your with 3T and MJ understood it. Taj became the person in charge of MJ's storage and belongings. (ABC7)

Chang asked Taj who was MJ's mentor: "Definitely my grandma, he would tell me that, you could see it, I sensed that," Taj responded. "My mom was my mentor and my mom's mentor was my grandma," Taj said. "They all shared the purity in their heart," Taj explained."My grandma was my uncle's compass in life," Taj said. "He was constantly trying to make her proud of him." (ABC7)

Taj said having children was something they encouraged MJ, since they thought he was going to be a great father. "It lit him up, that's what he lived for, his kids and my grandma," Taj said. (ABC7)

When MJ died, Taj said they stepped in right away."I think it's more difficult because my uncle to them was both father and mother, he was everything for them," Taj said. "When you lose a parent, your life is never the same again," Taj expressed. He said it hurts specially during milestones moments in his life. "I just got married," Taj said, crying. "And my mom wasn't there." Taj told the jury they chose to marry at Hayvenhurst because it was the place his mom and his uncle would be. Taj got married on June 16. He said he had a vase with a candle in it lit for his mother. Taj said he and his brothers wrote the song "Everything" at Hayvenhurst. Judge breaks for afternoon session. Katherine wipes her eyes. (ABC7)

Taj Jackson is 39, is TJ’s older brother and a member of 3T. “I feel lost because he’s not here,” Taj Jackson of his uncle Michael. He added, “When my mom passed, he stepped in and just made sure that our whole world didn't crumble.” He broke down when he described the impact of losing a parent. He cited them being gone for major milestones. Taj cited his wedding last weekend. He held it at the Jackson family’s Hayvenhurst home in Encino. Taj said he wanted to have it in a “place where both my uncle and my mom would be.” (AP)

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Attorneys and the judge discussed extensively about things that one side wants to show the jury but the other side doesn't. Judge adjourned session early for the jury. They are ordered back tomorrow morning at 10 am PT. (ABC7)

Shortly after this, there was an afternoon break and they held a sidebar hearing over notes that Taj was going to testify about. One of the notes was from Paris to her father, expressing happiness that she got a hug. The judge ruled it couldn’t be shown to jury.
Another note that Jackson wrote about something Blanket said at age 6 will be shown to jury, but with his age will be redacted. Plaintiff’s attorneys argued that the notes were “classic wrongful death evidence” and should be allowed in. The Jackson vs AEG Live trial ended for the day on arguments about whether Phil Anschutz could be ordered to come testify. Judge denied it. (AP)

"Paris is not going to be testifying," lawyer Deborah Chang told Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Yvette Palazuelos while the jury was out of the courtroom. "We have a little girl in so much pain right now, she cannot come," Chang said. Chang confirmed Paris won't take the witness stand as she argued to admit a handwritten note the King of Pop's daughter purportedly wrote to her dad in the months before his death. "Dead Daddy, I love you so much & I'm so glad I got a goodnight hug," the note reads. "Sleep well. I love you & good night. I'll see you tomorrow! XOX Goodnight. Lots of love, Paris Jackson". Chang argued that the pencil-written note depicts how Paris "felt about her father" and the great love they shared. A lawyer for AEG objected that it was hearsay, and the judge agreed. The note was not admitted as evidence. (NYDailyNews)

Karen Faye will resume her testimony tomorrow from a few weeks back. (ABC7)

 

[ivy]

Jacksons vs AEG - Day 40 – June 28 2013 – Summary

Katherine Jackson is not in court.

Karen Faye Testimony

AEG Cross

AEG defense attorney Marvin S. Putnam is cross-examining Faye. He started out stating it had been 7 weeks since she was last in court. (AP) Faye testified 7 weeks ago, May 10. Putnam asked her if she done anything to prepare, like look at the transcript. She said yes, periodically. "I was deposed for 4 or 5 days and I talked to plaintiffs for 1 day," Faye said. She reviewed transcripts but not what she said on the stand. She didn't look at exhibits, but met with plaintiffs' counsel, Faye said. (ABC7) Putnam asked whether Faye had reviewed her trial testimony. She said she hadn’t. She reviewed her deposition. Faye said her deposition spanned five or six days. At one point, she held up her hands to show how huge the file was. (AP)

Putnam asked Faye about her interactions with Michael Jackson after his acquittal in the child molestation case. (AP) Faye got MJ ready for the criminal trial in June 2005. She didn't talk to him at the day of acquittal, he left for Bahrain. Putnam: Were you upset you that you had been there every day and he didn't say good bye? "He had been thru a horrible, horrible ordeal. Whatever he had to do to recover from that, that was fine," Faye said. Faye on MJ: "I understood that he wanted to leave." (ABC7) Faye didn’t talk to Jackson after his acquittal. Putnam asked Faye whether that upset her. “It didn’t upset me. No sir.” Faye on not talking to Jackson after his acquittal: “He had been through a horrible, horrible ordeal and I was by his side sir.” (AP)

Faye said MJ never returned to Neverland after that, neither did she. She didn't see MJ in 2008 at Carolwood. Faye didn't talk to MJ when he came back into the country, heard from him every 3,4, 5 months and they were like brother and sister.

She said she talked to him every few months, but didn’t see him again until April 2009. She found out about ‘This Is It’ tour from the news. (AP) Faye said she found out about "This is It" tour on the news. She wasn't surprised, MJ had mentioned he had projects. Faye said she got a call from Michael Amir mid March saying he was MJ's assistant; Michael wanted her to go on the tour with him. She said she didn't think it was strange that Michael had an assistant calling her. Previously, MJ would call her directly. "He didn't give me too much information, said MJ would call me from blocked number, make sure to pick up, it had to do with tour," Faye said. It was a really happy and light conversation, Faye recalled. "Work with me Turkle, Work with me Turkle," Faye said MJ told her. "We kind of laughed and chuckled. I think I mentioned in that conversation I was excited for him going back on tour," Faye testified. Faye said MJ told her he thought it was only going to be 10 shows but when he woke up, and it was now 50. He was a little discouraged about the number of shows, Faye said. She told MJ they would have to work on his hair to get him ready to tour. Faye said she knows that was part of their conversation, but wasn't sure if it was part of their first conversation. (ABC7)

Putnam: He asked you to work on the tour and you said yes?
Faye: Yes (ABC7)

Faye said she remembers seeing the media following his bus, but is not sure she saw the press conference announcement live. "His wig was so big," Faye said, explaining that because of her work she notices people's hair and make-up. "I thought his behavior was a little odd, but not out of the ordinary," Faye said. (ABC7) On seeing Jackson’s press conference announcing the London shows, Faye said, “I just thought he had a really bad hairpiece on, sir.” Faye said she thought his wig was too big. Putnam asked her about Jackson’s behavior. She responded, “I thought his behavior was a little odd, but not out of the ordinary.” (AP)

Putnam: How did you think he looked?
Faye: Oh, ok. I just thought that he had a really bad hair piece on (ABc7)

Karen Faye revealed she found texts that helped her remember when things happened during prep for the “This Is It” tour. AEG attorney Marvin Putnam seemed surprised. Putnam asked Faye when she discovered the texts, and when she handed them over to plaintiff’s counsel. She said she turned them in today. Faye didn’t give the text messages to AEG’s lawyers. Putnam: ““I guess we’re getting them now.” (AP) Faye said she found some text messages related to the period, couple of days before MJ's death. Faye said she didn't even know she still had the phone. She said she looked at the texts to remember dates, turned them to defendants today. Faye said she was sick a couple of weeks ago and that's when she found the phone. Faye: You keep asking me things about dates, I'm trying to remember, I was trying to refresh my memory about things. (ABC7)

Putnam asked if she found anything else and she quipped, “I was going through my drawers. I found some sexy things for my boyfriend and I.” Putnam asked whether she found the proceedings funny. “I don’t think the case is funny at all sir,” Faye responded. (AP)

"I was concern on how close the shows were together, sir" Faye said. She reached out to Kenny Ortega and Michael about it. Faye said she learned about the tour schedule online. She doesn't recall if there was a three month break. "He might make 1st week but it will go downhill after," Faye said. "I felt the schedule was too difficult for him to maintain" (ABC7)

Putnam: You didn't see MJ for 4 years and thought it was a problem?
Faye: I said it could possibly be problem, I didn't say it was definite (ABC7)

Putnam showed Faye the calendar for the shows of "This Is It." She said she had not seeing it, what she saw was a list online. Faye agreed with the concept that she did call and expressed concern, but didn't say it was dangerous and impractical. "I had no concept of Michael's ability at this time," Faye said. "I was always protective of Michael and his well being." Faye: When I saw that there may be a problem, I did speak out, but exactly what they are talking here, I don't know. "I think he didn't know how the schedule was, he should go a look at the schedule and how he feels about it," Faye explained. "That's funny, my mother said the same thing," Faye said MJ told her. "By the conversation I had with him, he didn't seem to know the structure, only that it was 50 days," Faye said about MJ. Faye: I just wanted him to make sure he knew the schedule and if he was comfortable with it (ABC7).

Faye was asked about her conversation with Jackson about the “This Is It” shows. She says the singer seemed surprised about the 50 shows. Faye recalled Jackson telling her, “’ It started out as 10 shows and then I woke up and it was 50.’” Faye said she was concerned about how close together the “This Is It” shows were and she reached out to Kenny Ortega, the tour director. “I didn't say definitively that it was going to be a problem,” Faye said. “I said this was something we should look at.” She added that she thought Jackson needed more time to recuperate. Putnam asked whether she called schedule dangerous. Faye said she didn’t characterize it that way. “I said it wasn’t the best schedule for Michael to be successful,” she said. Putnam showed her an email Ortega sent to AEG exec Paul Gongaware saying Faye raised concerns about the schedule. Faye said they were Kenny’s words and not hers. She said she didn’t recall saying the schedule was dangerous. (AP)

Faye said she worked with a wig maker and they both went to Carolwood to see MJ. "Sir, we needed to prepare for the show, sir." She testified she needed to get some funds to start working on MJ's wigs and was told to speak with Dr. Tohme. (ABC7)

Faye was then asked about the Jackson family maid, Grace Rwaramba and her role during the molestation trial. She said she thought Jackson was better off when Grace wasn’t living at Neverland Ranch during the trial. (AP) "I really, really loved Grace when I first met her," Faye said. "I adored her, I was really happy Michael used her as the nanny." "As her responsibilities grew, she kind of stood in the way, it seems she always tried to keep me away from Michael," Faye said about Grace. "Michael seemed to have more difficult time when Grace was brought back to Neverland," Faye said, referring to the time of criminal trial. "I just noticed that Michael started having a lot of back pain" Faye said. "With the symptoms of losing a lot of weight, and the pajama day". Faye explained the day during the criminal trial MJ went to court wearing pajamas one day. That day, Michael went to the hospital because something happened to his back and they gave him some pain killers, Faye testified. "The judge was informing MJ he had to go to court or he would be sent to jail" Faye said. So he went to court in pajamas, couldn't get ready. "They were going to throw him in jail if he didn't get there on time," Faye said. (ABC7)

Faye said a lot of her information came through Taunya Zilkie and their concerns. Taunya took care of Faye's businesses affairs. Putnam said the contract with between the company of her Taunya's company, not Faye. Putnam: Did you have an understating as to whether or not you were an employee of AEG Live? Faye: I worked for This Is It and the production of the tour. "I think I was giving her (Taunya) something to take care of all my business and pay bills, but can't recall the amount," Faye said. (ABC7) Faye was then asked about her contract with AEG to work with Jackson on “This Is It.” She said she wasn't paid until contract was signed. (AP)

She was asked about the wigs she bought for Jackson, which she said were ventilated. She said she needed 5 wigs for the London shows. (AP) "The process of his hair took a long time," Faye said. Faye said she needed to be able to get to MJ, so she asked in the contract to be close to him. "I don't know where they were going to put me," she explained. "I wanted to make sure they could get to me if they needed." Faye said MJ liked privacy. "When you do somebody's hair there's a lot of things involved and he didn't want people to see it," Faye said. Faye said she needed probably 5 wigs, each costing $3,500. She said it was a long process to get one ready, needed reserves for emergency. "It meant Michael didn't want anybody to know he wore a wig," Faye said. Faye requested the wig receipt be as discreet as possible. (ABC7) She was also asked about contract terms that called for her to submit itemized receipts for expenses only if Jackson approved it. Faye: “I wanted it to be as private for him as possible.” (AP)

Botox inhibits sweating, so Faye thought MJ could have Botox injection on his scalp and he wouldn't sweat, the wig would stay on. Faye said Latisse and Propecia prescriptions for Michael were under her name. The Propecia rejuvenated hair on men's scalp, Faye said, and she needed as much healthy hair as possible. Faye said one of MJ assistants would sometimes give her skin creams to give to MJ. (ABC7)

"Ortega demanded Michael to take off sunglasses, they gave me orders sir, but not pertaining to make-up and hair," Faye said. (ABC7)

Putnam: Did you work for Michael Jackson?
Faye: He requested me, sir, he called me and asked me (ABC7)

Putnam: Did they do a background check on you?
Faye laughed out loud and said, you're so funny. I don't think so(ABC7)

"No, there was no background check done on me," Faye said, explaining she knows the background check is one of the issues of the trial. Faye said she saw information about the trial on the news and internet. She worked with MJ for 27 years. Putnam asked if AEG did financial check on her if they'd find problems. Plaintiffs objected, asserting witness's privacy. Judge sustained it (ABC7)

Putnam asked Faye what she did in April and May 2009 to prepare for the tour. She said she attended productions meetings at Center Staging. "I was researching all the adhesives available, trying to figure out ways to have my job be successful," Faye said. Faye said she worked in a bedroom downstairs at the Carolwood house, never went to the second floor bedrooms. Faye doesn't recall how many times a week she saw MJ from March to June. In the first period of rehearsals, Faye said he seemed ok. "In compared to how I used to know him, it was little different, I can't say it was exactly how it used to be," Faye said. "I noticed some physical things that were odd," Fayed recalled. Faye said rehearsal was really, really dried and that kind of bothered her. "His thinness was still bothering me," Faye testified. "He wasn't gaining anything that was a concern." Faye said she was so concerned she brought an old time MJ's cook who had a restaurant nearby to bring him food. "It wasn't the MJ at 29, but he did Billie Jean and it was MJ, everyone was really excited about that," Faye said about rehearsals in June. (ABC7)

"I asked Michael's security if he was going to see Dr. Klein," Faye testified. "I was kind on the lookout for doctors getting involved," Faye explained. Putnam asked why Faye inquired specifically about Dr. Klein. "Because in the media, there were reports that he had gone to Dr. Klein," Faye explained. "What I asked is how often he went there." Faye said they said Jackson's security confirmed MJ was seeing Dr. Klein maybe 3-4 days a week. That concerned her, Faye said. "Because of the past, when I'd see doctors get involved in Michael's life," Faye explained. Faye said she expressed that concern to Frank DiLeo, MJ's manager at the time. Faye never spoke with MJ about it. "I was really getting worried about Michael's psychological state," Faye said. She was concerned about Dr. Klein and aware of Dr. Murray in the week prior to MJ's death. Faye said she had a conversation with Kenny Ortega about Dr. Murray. She never asked about Dr. Klein. Faye said she can't recall ever having a conversation with Ortega about Dr. Klein. (ABC7)

Putnam: Did you express to KO any concern you had about Dr. Conrad Murray?
Faye: Yes, that he wasn't a psychologist (ABC7)

"I didn't know Conrad Murray at that particular point other than expressed the concern of what I think Michael needed," Faye said. (ABC7)

Regarding the fitting day, where MJ wore t-shirt and shoulder piece, Faye said she was there but didn't see him when they did the fitting. Faye said she saw MJ down to t-shirt several times, since she had to wire MJ, put wires and battery packs on him. (ABC7)

Putnam: Did Randy Phillips ever pressure you to get MJ on stage?
Faye: No
Putnam: Did Paul Gongaware ever pressure you to get MJ on stage?
Faye: No
Putnam: Did Randy Phillips ever personally instruct you to never listen no MJ?
Faye: No
Putnam: Did Paul Gongaware ever personally instruct you to never listen to MJ?
Faye: No
Putnam: Did you ever observe Randy Phillips tell anyone to get MJ on stage to rehearse?
Faye: He told me he wanted to build a wall around Michael so he doesn't want to do anything but get to rehearsal.

Faye said she wasn't around Phillips a lot, so she didn't recall Phillips telling anyone to get MJ on stage to rehearse. (ABC7) Faye told jurors that she was never pressured by AEG executives Randy Phillips or Paul Gongaware to get Jackson to rehearse. (AP)

On June 22, Faye went over to MJ's house to replace MJ's wig. She waited couple of hours and was told to leave, MJ didn't want to do it. (ABC7)

June 23 was the first time they were at Staples Center. Faye said she was extremely concerned with MJ's health on June 19th. "I was very concerned during this period of time, I was very, very frightened," Faye explained. She said she had horrible thoughts. "I made a phone call to security Alberto Alvarez on Saturday and asked him to watch MJ very closely that I was concerned," Faye testified. Faye said Alvarez didn't want to stay on the phone, had to go and hung up. Faye said she didn't have an opportunity to talk to anybody on June 22 about MJ and she didn't want to ask the children. On June 23, Faye said there were lots of meetings at Staples Center with MJ. She was alone with MJ at some point in the day. Faye said she didn't remember what she said to MJ, it was probably how are you doing, probably addressed him very casually. (ABC7)

Putnam: Did you think MJ had a good rehearsal on June 23?
Faye: It was much improved, sir
Putnam: How about the 24th?
Faye: It was improved (ABC7)

Putnam asked Faye how Jackson's performance was on the 23rd. Her response: "It was much improved." Putnam asked, "Did it restore your hope?" Faye replied, "Oh yeah." (KABC)

Putnam asked if Faye thought MJ would be ready to tour after those rehearsals. She responded "oh no, oh no!"
Putnam: You didn't think he was ready to go?
Faye: Oh no (ABC7)

Faye explained MJ didn't gain any weight, there were changes that needed to be done to get him ready, perhaps if they could delay it a bit.

Putnam: So you didn't think he could be ready after watching those rehearsals?
Faye: No

"It was a very strenuous show," Faye said. (ABC7)

Faye said there was hope, though."I saw more of Michael, he was laughing, I saw him participating, yes, there was some relief." "He was still cold, but his spirit was better, sir," Faye said. "I wasn't concerned for his weight for everyday life, but I was concert for his performance weight," Faye explained. (ABC7)

Putnam: Did you ever testify his work weight was 120 pounds?
Faye: Lisa Marie Presley gave me that information
"Lisa Marie Presley and I became friends and she told me MJ liked to be at 120 pounds," Faye said. (ABC7)

Putnam: Did you say he lost 10-15 lbs the last week of his life?
Faye: It was an estimate, yes

Putnam: Were you observing Mr. Jackson becoming thinner and thinner?
Faye: Yes (ABC7)

Faye said that in Mar/Apr she told Michael she was concerned with his weight. She never talked to him about it during last weeks of his life. "Michael wasn't very coherent that week to have a discussion like that," Faye said. Faye said people who didn't know MJ very well would probably not realize he lost lots of weight because of the several layers of clothes. (ABC7)

Putnam asked Faye about the fact that Coroner's report saying MJ was 136 lbs at the time of his death.
Putnam: Did you think it was impossible for him to weigh that much?
Faye: Yes
"Because Michael had lost so much weight and he kept losing weight. 136 lbs was a lot for MJ," Faye explained. (ABC7)

Defense attorney Marvin Putnam asked Faye if she would be surprised that Jackson weighed 136 pounds when he died. Faye's response: "136 pounds would be good for Michael." (KABC)

Faye said she was a bit upset that no one seemed to have been listening to her back in June 2009. "I was voicing my opinions and what I thought and I wasn't getting too much response, sir," Faye said. "He would pretend everything was ok" Faye said. But she never asked MJ if he was ok since she thought he wasn't in the state of mind for it. Faye did not express any of her concerns to MJ's family remembers. (ABC7)

Putnam asked if Faye and MJ knew each other well. Faye said he thought so. Faye said MJ believed in doctors and that wherever they prescribed he thought it was ok. Faye said the first time she heard about Propofol was after MJ died. She was surprised about it. (ABC7)

Faye testified earlier in the case that MJ didn't take no for answer. She said it had to do specifically with her work. (ABC7)

Faye said MJ talked about the tour seemed he was trying to convince himself to do it. "It was always like he was talking himself into it." (ABC7)

Putnam: That last week, you didn't know what was going on?
Faye: Right
Putnam: Did you think MJ was self-sabotaging?
Faye: I didn't understand what was going on (ABC7)

Email Faye sent to Frank DiLeo was a note from a fan concerned with MJ's weight on June 20, 2009. Faye wrote in the email: Frank... Unfortunate she's right. I'm fearful he I'll make himself so sick be will die. If he doesn't do this show he has no where else to go. Another fan email forwarded on June 22 from Faye to DiLeo saying MJ was too thin. When he asked me to do this in May and met with him. I saw a slender but strong and coherent Michael Jackson. "I felt desperate when I wrote this email, because I felt I wasn't being heard or acknowledged," Faye said. "It seems like he is setting himself up to be the victim," Faye wrote in the email to DiLeo. "I thought the best pathway, he needed some psychological help," Faye explained. "I'm trying to figure out what is going on." Faye said she thought there was some sort of fear with MJ. "He hurts himself most of all," Faye wrote. Putnam asked what she meant by that and Faye said "He's dead!" "I don't think you, Kenny or Randy deserve becoming the villains, or the financial victims," Faye wrote. "This is between you and me alone," Faye wrote in the email to DiLeo. "I am leaving this in your hands as you have instructed me to do." Faye said she was trying to get their attention to do something. "I was desperate. I wanted a therapist for Michael." No response from Frank DiLeo or anybody else, Faye said. Putnam asked about her saying it was between the two alone, and she said her intention was for someone to help Michael. Faye's email to DiLeo: Michael is painfully thin... His bones are protruding. I'm one person that has physical contact with him very day. Michael's OCD is getting worse. He repeats his actions and rambles words constantly. (ABC7)

Hair and makeup artist Karen Faye testified about two emails she sent to Jackson's manager Frank Dileo within the five days before the singer's death that his health was deteriorating. In one of the messages, Faye warned Dileo that he and AEG Live CEO Randy Phillips might become "villains" or "financial victims" if Jackson were to die while preparing or performing a series of comeback shows called "This Is It." Faye said she struck a dire tone in the messages because she felt that earlier concerns about Jackson's health had been ignored. Faye sent the warning that Jackson may die in a message on June 20, 2009 — five days before the singer died of an overdose of the anesthetic propofol. Two days later, on June 22, she sent the warning about Dileo, Phillips and tour director Kenny Ortega being held financially responsible for the entertainer's demise. "I don't think you, Kenny, or Randy deserve becoming the villains, or the financial victims," her email states. She wrote that the message was "between you and me alone." She told jurors she was concerned the men "could be responsible for that in some way. Just kind of like where we are right now," she said, referencing Katherine Jackson's ongoing civil case against AEG Live.Faye's emails described Jackson as emaciated, paranoid and unable to perform. She told jurors Friday that while the singer's performances dramatically improved in his final two rehearsals, she was still not convinced he would be able to perform the 50-concert schedule of "This Is It," let alone its premiere. (AP)

In an email on July 1, 2009, Faye expressed concern to Randy Phillips about footage of MJ shuffling and wrapping around in blankets. Phillips responded: We control all the footage and it is locked at the vault at staples center (ABC7)


Jackson redirect

Panish: Were you seeing Michael not able to sing and dance on June 16?
Faye: Yes, sir
Panish: Did you think that MJ needed some medical assistance that time?
Faye: Absolutely
Faye agreed with Bugzee that MJ was deteriorating in front of everyone eyes.

"He was not in good physical shape on June 19," Faye said. (ABC7)

Panish: Who did you negotiate your contract with?
Faye: AEG Live (ABC7)

"He was burned a long time ago, had damage to his scalp," Faye said about MJ needing wig. "He had 1st, 2nd and 3rd degree burn." (ABC7)

Panish: Were you being paid $150,000 a month?
Faye: No
Panish: Did you take the Hippocratic oath when you became a make-up artist?
Faye: No, sir (ABC7)

Panish asked if someone has died after getting make-up. "I never even burned someone with a hot iron, sir," Faye responded. (ABC7)

MJ went to rehearsal on June 18 but arrived late, Faye said. Ortega was very angry Michael was late to rehearsal. Faye said MJ was scared, paranoid, pressure on the last two weeks of his life. Putnam questioned Faye for 5 days in deposition related to Lloyds of London lawsuit. There were no lawyer representing the Jacksons. "I was quite sure he was deteriorating, sir" Faye said. "I had no idea what was going on, but there was something very, very wrong." Faye said she discussed with mortician MJ's body weight. Panish asked if he looked worse than on June 19. Faye responded: "He was dead, sir" Faye said on June 18 Michael was almost catatonic, stoic, appeared scared to die. (ABC7)

 

[ivy]

Jacksons vs AEG - Day 41 – July 1 2013 – Summary

Katherine Jackson is not in court.

Jean Seawright, Human Resources Expert for Jacksons


Jackson direct


Jackson's attorney, Brian Panish, is questioning Jean Seawright, a Human Resources consultant. She has her own company, helps clients find, hire, train, compensate, terminate workers; basically the entire life cycle of an employment. Seawright said human resources relates to the people and the workers in a business. She has clients in various line of businesses: pest control, law firms, restaurants, car dealerships, hospitals, etc. Seawright has BS in Chemistry, has consulted in the field of HR for 25 years, advising owners and managers of human resources practices. (ABC7) Seawright has her own HR-consulting company based in Florida, but has clients in different parts of the case. (AP)

Seawright said there are several types of background check, including driving, criminal, credit and social security check. Depending on the reports, the cost can be as low as $5, background check from $10-15, $25 with other fees, Seawright testified.
(ABC7)

She has testified in around 16 court cases, including one in which an employee killed a supervisor. The worker had a previous murder conviction, but no background check had been done, Seawright said. (AP) Seawright has testified in approximately 16 cases. Being an expert witness composes about 10% of her company's revenue.She charges $300/hour and has works a little over 100 hours in this case, Seawright testified. (ABC7)

Seawright has never works in the music or show producing industry, but said that she's qualified to testify since HR principles are the same. (ABC7)

She said her goal is to hire workers who are fit for the position and who are not going to put themselves or others at risk. Seawright said she doesn't differentiate independent contractors and company employees, since it's just a classification/label of a worker. "The same risks exist, regardless of the label," Seawright explained. "You can't manage what you don't know," Seawright said. "It's important to understand what the history of what an individual is before hiring them," Seawright explained. She said that knowing the background of workers diminish the risks of the hiring. Seawright explained smart hiring process, which can minimize the risks and hire a competent and fit employee. (ABC7) Seawright said she doesn’t advise different procedures for checking the background of an employee vs an independent contractor. Doing background checks is relatively inexpensive, Seawright said. A Social Security number check might cost $5, criminal check up to $30. (AP)

Panish asked assuming Paul Gongaware knew MJ had prescription drug issues, would that knowledge be critical in hiring a doctor for MJ? "Yes indeed, it would elevate the risk even higher," Seawright answered. Seawright: The organization knows the potential to harm the artist, they have information about the parties, which would elevate the risk.(ABC7)

Attorney Brian Panish asked Seawright a hypothetical question. He told her to assume AEG Live hired Conrad Murray at MJ’s request. Panish asked whether Seawright believed AEG followed adequate hiring practices. She said the company didn’t follow good hiring practices. She said she would have considered Murray performing a high-risk job due to several factors. The factors included Murray working in Jackson’s home, having access to confidential info and the singer’s family and giving medical care. Seawright said in Murray’s case, she would have recommended the following checks: criminal, credit and driving history. She would have also recommended a verification of Murray’s Social Security information. Panish questioned whether the absence of a criminal record would be enough of a check. Seawright said no. In forming her opinion, Seawright said she relied on the testimony of Dr. Matheson and other witnesses during the trial. (AP)

"They did indeed fail to follow adequate hiring practices," she testified Monday.Serving as a personal doctor for Michael Jackson was "a very high risk position" that warranted a background check to determine if Murray was fit for the job, competent to do the work and did not have a conflict of interest, Seawright testified. A simple credit check -- taking five minutes and costing less than $10 -- would have revealed the conflict of interest, she said. Credit checks are routine for many companies hiring for high-risk positions, she said. (CNN)

"I'd recommend criminal background check, credit and motor vehicle check and a social security verification on Dr. Murray," Seawright said. "Dr. Murray was in position of administering medical care but was paid by company that had the ability to stop the tour," Seawright said. "Had that happened, Dr. Murray would not be able to continue to work, he was in a conflict of interest," Seawright continued. (ABC7)

She said she saw no evidence of AEG conducting checks on Dr. Murray. Panish showed a chart of AEG's process to check out people, which separates employees from independent contractors.(ABC7) Panish displayed a board with a blowup of an AEG Live exhibit that their corporate attorney, Shawn Trell, used in his testimony. The board was titled “AEG Process to Check Out People.” It drew distinctions between employees and independent contractors. Panish gave Seawright a red marker and asked her to write whether they were processes that reflect standard human resources practices. Seawright said some of the processes including on the AEG exhibit were standard practices. Others were not. There were seven items on the procedures for Independent Contractors. Seawright wrote that none were standard practices. The processes included relying on a previous working relationship with AEG, or being known to the artist. She said requiring an independent contractor to be fully insured and indemnifying AEG from liability benefited the company. She said using a process like AEG employed could lead to harm. She said an independent contractor can cause as much harm as an employee. Seawright said at the minimum, AEG Live should have done a credit check on Conrad Murray. AEG Live’s lawyers objected to some of the questions Seawright was being asked, but judge allowed her to respond to most of them. (AP)

Seawright said there are risks involving employees who are not necessarily dealing with money. The expert said that looking at someone's professional license is not enough to qualify a potential worker. Seawright went through all the procedures AEG has in place to hire independent contractors and said most of their process only protects AEG. Seawright said the label of the employee doesn't change the fact that the company is responsible for the hiring of fit and competent person. Panish: Could independent contractors cause the same damage as employees? Seawright: Yes (ABC7)

Seawright said background checking minimizes the risk of hiring someone. Seawright opined that just including in the contract that Dr. Murray needed to be licensed is not sufficient to determine his competency. "I did not see any evidence in my review of documents and testimony," Seawright said about AEG checking Dr. Murray's medical license. "You can't just always take people's word" Seawright explained, saying that until you check their credentials you don't know if they are fit. (ABC7)


Panish: Did you see anything that qualified Dr. Murray as extremely successful? Seawright: I saw nothing that was done to determine that. Seawright talked about Phillips' email where he said Dr. Murray was extremely successful and didn't need the gig. She said Phillips acknowledged what the criteria was, that they needed someone ethical and unbiased"The email is a recognition by Mr. Phillips to hire someone who doesn't need the gig," Seawright opined.. (ABC7)

Seawright then testified about an email from AEG Chief Executive Randy Phillips to tour director Kenny Ortega, in which Phillips said Murray was “extremely successful” – noting “we check everyone out” – and “does not need this gig, so he is totally unbiased and ethical.” Seawright said that email indicated Phillips understood the criteria for the job and that AEG had a process in place for examining its workers. When asked if she saw evidence indicating the company in fact “checked out” Murray’s background, she replied: “I did not.” Ultimately, she said, the email indicated AEG was in a "sort of trap … where if you don’t check out a worker adequately, then you are in a situation like this.” “It was Mr. Phillips saying what he hoped was the case but we later found out was not the case,” she said. (LATimes)

Seawright said entertainment companies are not different from others, HR is practice across businesses lines to find fit, competent workers. No matter what business you are, you need to follow HR protocols, Seawright said.(ABC7)

The expert explained the credit check is used to determine whether or not the person met all his/her obligations, if there had any default. Seawright explained the problem is not the debt at all, it's the fact you are in default of the debt, that you haven't met your obligations. She said credit checks are inexpensive, cost between $5-8 and takes about 5 minutes to get the report. As to Dr. Murray, Seawright said AEG should have done, at minimum, a credit check. MJ was just a referral of Dr. Murray, Seawright said, and AEG should've done further investigations on him. Seawright said Dr. Murray was going to be in MJ's house, would have exposure to confidential information, so he needed to be checked out. Moreover, Dr. Murray would be providing medical care to MJ, and AEG should've checked him out, the expert opined. To get a credit report, you have to have the individual's consent, Seawright said. (ABC7)

The expert analyzed an email from outside counsel Kathy Jorrie to Phillips recommending background check on Dr. Tohme. (ABC7)

During deposition, AEG's attorney Jessica Bina showed study where out of 158 employers 3 % indicated they did credit check in healthcare. Another part of the survey related to employees working at people's homes, in which 30% employers conduct credit checks, Seawright testified. Panish: Could AEG have done a background check on Dr. Murray? Seawright: There's no question they could've done that, if they wanted to. "Being in debt is just having debt," Seawright explained. "But default is not paying the debts." (ABC7)

Dr. Murray had three different social security numbers in his credit report, according to LAPD Detective Orlando Martinez. Seawright said AEG could've run Dr. Murray's background and would've gotten the same information Det. Martinez received. (ABC7)

Panish: Do you know any special rules that apply to AEG Live? Seawright: No (ABC7)
Nothing further from plaintiff.



AEG Cross

AEG's attorney Jessica Stebbins Bina did cross examination.

Bina asked if all the opinions Seawright offered are based on the assumption that AEG, not MJ, hired Dr. Murray. She said yes. Seawright said she did not analyze the info assuming Michael Jackson hired Dr. Murray. Judge told the jurors that ultimately they are the ones who are going to decide who hired Dr. Murray. (ABC7)

Seawright Associates has four employees currently. Seawright said she has no idea if plaintiffs checked her background, but that she did not sign a release to check her credit. (ABC7)

Seawright said she never ran her doctors' background. She has not worked with concert promoters or the music industry. The expert said this is the 1st case where a person's credit history is major issue. The other cases involved criminal history and behavior (ABC7) She said the Jackson vs AEG Live case is the first one where a person’s credit history was an issue. Other cases involved criminal history. (AP)

Stebbins Bina tried to get Seawright to define the term “Independent contractor.” Seawright said there wasn’t a standard definition. The effort to define independent contractor prompted a lengthy sidebar. Afterward, Stebbins Bina read a definition from the dictionary. Seawright said the dictionary definition didn’t totally define what an independent contractor was. Seawright wouldn't define the term. (AP) The expert said there's no precise definition for independent contractor; there may be characteristics, but not a definition Bina gave hypotheticals to explain independent contractor. Most common background checks are criminal and reference checks, Seawright said. Seawright: It's important to be able to identify the best way to hire a worker, minimize the risk, determine if they are fit and competent. (Some jurors had their eyes closed at this point. It was very dry testimony, some audience members were sleeping.) (ABC7) A couple of the jurors seemed to be struggling to stay away during Seawright’s cross-examination. (AP)


A company can be accused of discrimination if the criteria involved in the hiring uses discriminatory practices, Seawright said. (ABC7)

Before the break, there was a tense session outside the jury’s presence on EEOC guidelines with regard to credit checks. AEG attorney Jessica Stebbins Bina asked Seawright about whether the EEOC now prohibits credit checks. Stebbins Bina showed the jury a printout from the EEOC website that she said showed the agency prohibited credit checks. Plaintiff’s attorney Brian Panish objected, and pointed out the printout doesn’t have a date on it. He said doc shouldn’t have been shown. Stebbins Bina acknowledged during the sidebar that she wasn't sure if the printout was a federal regulation, so she'll check on it tonight. Panish was extremely upset during the sidebar, saying Stebbins Bina and the judge erred by showing the printout to jury. He wanted the printout and comments about it made in front of the jury stricken from the record, but judge refused for now. Judge Yvette Palazuelos said she would wait to strike the printout and discussion from the record until she hears more about it tomorrow. (AP)

Outside the presence of the jury, there was a heated discussion about a document AEG showed to the jury. Bina showed an Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) policy on credit check, saying it is a discriminatory practice. Jackson's atty Brian Panish argued vehemently that there was no foundation as to the date of the document and if it was in effect in 2009. Judge offered to take judicial notice of the document, but Panish said judge couldn't legally do it. Judge Yvette Palazuelos: is this is a regulation, rule, statute I can take judicial notice? Bina claimed the document, printed out of the website, is a policy and judge should be able to take judicial notice. She will look further. "The court should not allow that, plaintiff has been prejudiced by the misconduct of defendants' counsel," Panish told the judge. Judge read the document and noted it says "generally should be avoided", and it doesn't says it is prohibited. "It doesn't exactly say what you said," judge told Bina. Here's the text of the policy.

Document Pre-Employment Inquiries and Credit Rating or Economic Status: Inquiry into an applicant's current or past assets, liabilities, or credit rating, including bankruptcy or garnishment, refusal or cancellation of bonding, car ownership, rental or ownership of a house, length of residence at an address, charge accounts, furniture ownership, or bank accounts generally should be avoided because they tend to impact more adversely on minorities and females. Exceptions exist if the employer can show that such information is essential to the particular job in question. (ABC7)

Panish said the document is not a rule, regulation or policy and asked judge to admonish the jury to disregard it. Panish said it's misleading, inappropriate, should not be presented to the jury and it's unduly prejudicial to the plaintiffs. Bina argued she thinks it's clearly admissible, doesn't think it's appropriate to instruct jury now. "I do not believe there's any error in showing this document to the jury," Bina said. "You, improperly, took judicial notice over my objection and I'm requesting to admonish the jury now," Panish requested Judge Palazuelos. Judge: if it turns out judicial notice was improper but admissible in other ground, it may be difficult to explain to the jury. Judge wants to make sure they get to the bottom of it, whether it is admissible or not, before instructing the jury one way or another. Judicial notice is a rule in the law of evidence thatallows a fact to be introduced into evidence if the truth of that fact is so notorious or well known, or so authoritatively attested that it cannot reasonably be doubted. This is done upon the request of the party seeking to rely on the fact at issue. Facts & materials admitted under judicial notice are accepted without being formally introduced by witness or other rule of evidenceand they are even admitted if one party wishes to lead evidence to the contrary. (ABC7)

Bina resumed cross examination, jury back in the courtroom. Bina: Dr. Murray had a medical license, right? Seawright: My understanding, yes. Seawright said that once she checked Dr. Murray's credit check it made him ineligible for employment, thus she didn't investigate further. "There was no need to," Seawright said, explaining the fact that Dr. Murray failed the credit history was sufficient to deny him employment. (ABC7)

Regarding Dr. Murray's contract "4.1 Perform the Services reasonably by Producer" Bina said it was an error and Producer should read Artist. Seawright said she saw contradicting testimony, several well-qualified people reviewed the contract and it wasn't changed in final version. (ABC7)

 

[ivy]

Jacksons vs AEG - Day 42 – July 2 2013 – Summary

Katherine Jackson is in court.

Testimony was delayed by a lengthy argument over an EEOC printout that was shown in court yesterday. Plaintiff’s attorney Brian Panish argued the document was a non-binding policy and shouldn’t be raised during trial. Judge Yvette Palazuelos said questions about the document could be asked, but it wouldn’t be allowed into evidence. Panish was also concerned because Palazuelos told the jury the guidance against employment-related credit checks was a law, which isn’t. She’s having the attorneys craft a statement to read to the jury when they come in and HR expert Jean Seawright resumes testifying. (AP)

Outside presence of the jury, attorneys/judge discussed the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) document shown to jurors yesterday. Panish: They don’t consider credit checks to be a prohibited practice at all. This is a lawyer making misleading statements, hearsay. Panish: She says “it is a law," it is an official policy. It is not an official policy. It is a guideline at the most. Panish said EEOC guidelines are not controlling law. "This is not a law. If the court is confused, the jury is going to be confused." It is a guideline that has been revoked in a court case, Panish told the judge. Bina said it was DMV photos that were assessed in that case, not EEOC policy that failed in that case. Panish raised his voice, said AEG never claimed this (credit check may be discrimination,) it has never been raised before. "You yourself were misled, your honor, over my objections," Panish said. Bina said she plans to say credit checks are controversial, must be job related. Companies might use care in using credit checks. Panish: Trell never mentioned an EEOC concern. This is not a law or regulation. The document wasn’t raised in deposition with Seawright. Judge told the attorneys to put their heads together and she will read an explanation to the jury. (ABC7)


Jean Seawright Testimony


AEG cross

Before Seawright resumed testifying, the judge read a statement telling jury that the EEO document wasn’t a law. Judge Palazuelos’ statement included language that she would instruct jurors’ on evidence once testimony concludes in the case. (AP) Judge told jurors that yesterday there were references made to an EEOC document. It was not a regulation, but rather a guide. Judge said the document had not been admitted into evidence. Jurors nodded, indicating they understood the explanation. (ABC7)

Bina asked if Seawright was familiar with that EEOC guideline. She said yes, it provides guidance. Seawright explained that Title 7 says that an employer cannot discriminate. Bina: Are there studies that show relationship between debt and manslaughter? Seawright: Not that I am aware of. Bina: Are there studies that show relationship between debt and malpractice? Seawright: Not that I am aware of. (ABC7)

Bina asked if Seawright knows Dr. Murray's history of treating patients, and he had no record of harming patients. Seawright explained she examined his financial history only, and once he failed that she didn't see need to go any further. Seawright said that, based on Dr. Murray's credit history, he was 180 days behind in his mortgage. (ABC7)

Bina asked why background checks are necessary. Seawright said it was because you are putting customers at risk. Dr. Murray wasn't being placed in charge of AEG business, Bina argued, saying he was in charge of the artist. Seawright explained his responsibility was Mr. Jackson's health during the tour. Bina: Does that fact that MJ had a long term relationship with Dr. Murray weigh in your analysis at all? Seawright: No, there's no bearing. Bina: If a contractor had been with hundreds of tours would that person have to be background checked? Seawright: It depends on the position. Seawright said you might have some historical knowledge of how the person performed but need to see if there were problems. If time has passed since you last hired someone, Seawright said you need to go back and check again, it's a rehiring; whole new period. (ABC7)

Bina: Lets say MJ had engaged Dr. Murray for 3 years and was going to continue. At that point, would MJ have to do background check?
Seawright: I can't give an answer without evaluating the circumstances (ABC7)

Bina asked if it's ever appropriate to have different processes for different positions. Seawright said it depends on different risk factors. Bina: Is it ever appropriate to have some policies for employees and others for independent contractors? Seawright: The label doesn't make a difference. (ABC7)

Most of AEG defense attorney Jessica Stebbins Bina's questioning centered on doing credit checks on employees. Stebbins Bina walked Seawright through a survey of 158 HR professionals who answered questions about performing credit checks. According to the 2010 survey, 30% of respondents did credit checks on employees in fiduciary duty roles. Much less in other categories. For employees' with "safety sensitive" roles (which Seawright believes Conrad Murray qualified as), credit screens were done in 5% of cases. For healthcare professionals, the figure was 3%, according to figures read into the record by Stebbins Bina. AEG Live defense attorney Jessica Stebbins Bina focused on statistics from a survey of HR professionals. (AP)


Bina inquired Seawright extensively about several surveys that she relied upon while writing opinions in other cases. Bina inquired Seawright about expert opinions she issued in other cases. "When hiring someone, we have to look at the potential harm to him/herself, to others, to customers," Seawright explained. "For every job, you have to evaluate all of the risks associated with it," Seawright said. There are risks in every employment. Seawright considered Dr. Murray's position to be high-risk and safety-sensitive. She explained Dr. Murray would be working at MJ's home, in and around his family, with access to confidential information. Seawright said the risk was elevated since Paul Gongaware was aware of MJ's past use of drugs and alcohol during tours. The expert said she read about Gongaware's knowledge of MJ's drug use in his deposition and Dr. Finkelstein also mentioned it. (ABC7)

Employers have the right to conduct background check, Seawright said. But she noted their practices cannot be discriminatory. Bina: Would the company be exposing itself to risk if you do background check? Seawright: Not necessarily (ABC7)

"Indemnification provision in a contract is not checking out a worker," Seawright testified. Bina argued that if the company is taking responsibility for Dr. Murray's conduct, with indemnification, it offers protection. Seawright said it protects the company, it protects AEG. (ABC7)

Bina: Do you see anything in the policy for hiring Independent contractors that AEG didn't follow with Dr. Murray? Seawright and Bina went through the check list for independent contractors hired by AEG. AEG's practice for Independent Contractors: *Known to the artist - Seawright said yes *Required licenses or permits - Seawright said yes. *Fully insured - Seawright said yes *Indemnification Provision- Seawright said yes *Obligation laid out in the contract - Seawright said yes. "It was called final," Seawright said about Dr. Murray's agreement. (ABC7)

Stebbins Bina also asked about reports Seawright prepared in other cases. There were objections, but some of the questions were allowed. Seawright stuck to her testimony that Murray should have been considered in a high-risk positive and dealing with safety-sensitive matters. One key factor in that was the fact Murray was working in Michael Jackson’s home, Seawright said. (AP)


Jackson redirect


Panish asked in re-direct about EEOC policy again. He said Bina brought it up improperly in front of the jury. Judge sustained objection. (ABC7) Panish asked a few questions before asking Seawright about the EEOC guidelines that have been argued over. AEG attorneys objected. Judge Palazuelos: “Why are we revisiting this.” Panish said he was trying to clarify issue for the jury, but judge sustained the objection. (AP)

Panish asked Seawright what her understanding is why employers check credit of potential employees. Seawright: They check the credit because they are very concerned that financial stress can compromise people's ethical judgment and behavior. Multiple branches of our government do credit checks on employees to make sure they are not at risk for unethical decisions, Seawright said. "The debt is not an issue at all, it's the delinquent debt they are concerned about," Seawright said. (ABC7) Seawright then said that many government agencies screen people’s credit because they see delinquent debts as a possible risk. She said the agencies view delinquent debts as one way people may compromise their ethical judgment. (AP)

Panish asked if Seawright saw anywhere in this case AEG saying they didn't conduct credit check on Murray because it could be discrimination. "I've never heard that at all in all the documents I read," Seawright responded. (ABC7)

Panish asked if Seawright could rely in a survey conducted with small percentage of businesses to determine if credit check should be done. Seawright responded she would not rely on that survey to determine the necessity of credit checks in the healthcare field. "I believe AEG Live hired Dr. Murray," Seawright said. Defendant's attorney objected to the response and judge sustained it. Judge: That's because it is your duty, your responsibility to say whether Dr Murray was hired. It's not up to the experts to determine that. (ABC7)

Seawright said that Dr. Murray asking for $5 million initially raised questions in her mind why he would be requesting that much. (ABC7) Before the break, Panish asked Seawright whether she reviewed testimony in the case about Conrad Murray’s pay. She said she knew he first asked for $5 million then dropped his rate down to $150,000 a month. She said that raised questions for her. Seawright: “It was a red flag for me at the beginning of the process,” she said of Murray’s expected $150,000 a month salary. (AP)

Panish then asked Seawright whether she believed AEG Live hired Murray, a question for the jury to decide. Panish said he asked the question because Stebbins Bina asked a similar question on cross-examination. At one point, Judge Palazuelos rubbed her hands over her face and stopped the proceedings. She turned and addressed the jury. She explained that one of her pretrial orders was that experts could assume Murray was either hired or not hired by AEG Live. She said the experts aren’t supposed to say whether they believe Murray was hired or not - that was for the jury to decide. (AP)

Panish asked whether if AEG Live was Seawright's client, would she have recommended hiring Conrad Murray. Seawright responded that she absolutely wouldn't have recommended that AEG hire Murray because of "risks associated with the position." If they insisted, Seawright said she would have recommended a "comprehensive vetting process" (AP) Panish asked if AEG Live were Seawright's client in 2009 and said they wanted to hire Dr. Murray what she would've said. Seawright: I would've said absolutely no, because of the risks associated with the position and the potential for conflict of interest. "If they insisted, I would've recommended a comprehensive vetting process, with credit and background check," Seawright said. (ABC7)


AEG recross


AEG Live attorney Jessica Stebbins Bina then took over, and made the point that Seawright hadn't done any research into med, concert fields (AP)

Bina in re-cross asked if Seawright was aware legislators expressed concern in 09 of unduly use of credit checks. She said she was not aware. (ABC7)


Jackson redirect

RE-RE-DIRECT Panish: Was EEOC checking credit of people? Seawright: My understanding they were. "Financial distress can impact their ability to make ethical decision, that's the reason that EEOC does it," Seawright said. Panish asked if Seawright would recommend background check for a high-risk, safety-sensitive job? Seawright: I do. Seawright said AEG did not do any check on Dr Murray. Panish: In your opinion, AEG acted inappropriately for not doing that? Seawright: Yes (ABC7)


Dr. Sidney Schnoll Testimony - Addiction expert for Jacksons

Jackson direct

Michael Koskoff, attorney for Jackson's, doing direct examination.

Dr. Schnoll resides in Connecticut, born in New Jersey. He graduated in medical school on 1967. He described his extensive background. "Addiction Medicine is the study of the problems of addiction," Dr. Schnoll said. "It is a very broad area." (ABC7)

He testified about his experience, background today. He's an addiction medicine and pain management specialist. Been practicing since the early 1970s, but has been consulting since 2001 or so. Schnoll has helped develop risk management programs for pharmaceutical companies. It's a way to understand problems of abuse of a drug. Schnoll doesn't do trial consulting. He said this is the first case in about 15 years that he's testified in. Schnoll has consulted for the NFL Players Association, the Chicago Cubs and Bulls and written roughly 40 textbook chapters over his career. He's also provided medical care at concerts for acts such as the Rolling Stones and Fleetwood Mac. Apparently for concertgoers, not talent. Schnoll consulted for the Chicago Cubs starting in 1982. He recounted the first time he walked into the training room as immediately worried. Schnoll said on one of the counters in the Cubs' locker room was a bottle of amphetamines "which the players called greenies." The amphetamine pills were green, hence the players' nickname, Scholl said. He also noted there was a beer tap in the clubhouse. He said he told the Cubs both items were inappropriate, and they agreed. He instituted a drug monitoring and testing program. Schnoll said the Cubs' drug monitoring program he developed became a model of Major League Baseball at the time. (AP)

Dr. Schnoll reviewed medical records, depositions and transcripts in this case. He was also deposed. (ABC7)

Dr. Schnoll: Drug dependence is the pharmacological affect of the drug. "You take it continuously and suddenly stop it, you go into withdrawal" Dr. Schnoll said. "If you continue to take it you develop tolerance". Tolerance is when there's a need to take more of the drug for it to take effect, Dr. Schnoll explained.Dr. Schnoll: When you take certain drugs and suddenly stop you go into withdrawal syndrome, which is usually the opposite effect of the drug. Koskoff: Can people who are taking proper treatment become drug dependent? Dr. Schnoll: Yes. If the patient is properly prescribed and monitored, Dr. Schnoll said they can have normal life. Koskoff: Can withdrawal from drugs sometimes be difficult, even for non-drug dependents? Dr. Schnoll: Yes. Dr. Schnoll: Addiction is a chronic disease that's characterized by craving, compulsive use of a drug, continued despite evidence of harm. Primary factor is usually genetics, Dr. Schnoll said about addicts. Dr. Schnoll: One person exhibits addicted behavior in relation to the drug, the other is seeking the drug to treat underlying condition. Dr. Schnoll said there's a difference between being addicted and dependent on drugs. Dependents look for drugs, addicts want to get high. To determine if a patient is dependent or addicted, Dr. Schnoll said it is necessary to look at that person's behavior while using the drug. Usually doctor look at 0-10 pain scale, you then adjust the amount of the drug to give them what's enough to treat their pain. (ABC7)

The doctor explained the difference between addiction and dependence. Being dependent on a drug meant someone would experience withdrawal if they stopped taking it. He said dependence is common and can happen under the care of a physician.(AP)

Schnoll: "Addiction is a chronic disease that’s characterized by craving, compulsive use of a drug, continued use despite evidence of harm." He said the primary factor in whether someone becomes a drug addict is usually genetics. Schnoll then related the need to evaluate a person's drug use to determine appropriate treatment. He offered an anecdote of a patient. Schnoll said he treated a woman who had severe headaches and kept asking her doctors for more and more pain medications. He told the woman to keep a pain diary of her daily routines, when she got headaches and what she was doing. The problem became apparent, Schnoll said, when he reviewed the woman’s pain diary. The woman “always had her headaches at about 4 o’clock every day, except weekends,” Schnoll said. She wasn’t eating lunch at work. She didn’t believe him at first when he said she needed to eat lunch. He gave her some glucose tests, which bore out his theory. “Her solution to her headaches was to eat 3 meals a day,” Schnoll said. “She needed no more narcotics after that.” (AP)

 

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Jacksons vs AEG - Day 43 – July 3 2013 – Summary

Katherine Jackson is in court.

Dr. Sidney Schnoll Testimony


Jackson direct

Koskoff asked if you take someone off Demorol suddenly what happens. Dr. Schnoll: “like falling off a cliff, you don’t want that to happen.” Methodone is an opioid drug used for pain and treatment of opioid addiction. Dr. Schnoll explained how the drug works. Dr. Schnoll said the most important factor in determining if the person should go off the drug is to find out what the underlying problem is. Koskoff: What if a person has chronic osteoarthritis? Dr. Schnoll: May have remain on medication all his life. If a person has underlying condition and take opioid they could function better, Dr Schnoll explained. There's no harm in doing it medically. Koskoff: Any famous people who have been opioid dependent? Dr. Schnoll: President John F. Kennedy (Judge asks why?) Back pain. (ABC7)

Dr. Schnoll said addiction can also be treated by competent and fit physicians. (ABC7)

Koskoff: If a person is being treated, as part of good medical practice, can someone become drug dependent? Dr. Schnoll: if they're on long term opioid treatment, they'll become dependent. Opioids are the most commonly prescribed drugs in the US. Some patients become addicted, Dr. Schnoll said. But it's not s large percentage. Dr. Schnoll: The figures indicate 10 to 12% become addicted, the same percentage of people who become addicted to alcohol. Dr. Schnoll explained pain threshold is the level at which someone feels discomfort. They are quite variable, he said. “Opioids are most popular because they work," Dr. Schnoll said. "Pain is the most common complaint that comes to a doctor's office.” (ABC7)

Koskoff: Any evidence from any witness that MJ used Demerol outside the medical setting? Dr. Schnoll: No
Koskoff: Was there a period of time when MJ used Demerol for scalp treatments? Dr. Schnoll: Yes (ABC7)

Dr. Schnoll said he reviewed medical records that Dr. Farshian implanted a patch into MJ's abdomen. The patch was done for treatment of Demerol dependency in early 2000s. The drug would block the effect of the opioid, Dr. Schnoll said. (ABC7)

Koskoff said based on the medical records in the last 16 years of MJ’s life, he was Demerol free for 13 1/2 years. Koskoff asked if that was consistent with a drug addict. Dr. Schnoll answered no. (ABC7)

Koskoff asked if Dr. Schnoll read testimony from Dr. Earley saying MJ was a drug addict and that he was going to die early. Koskoff: Do you agree with that opinion? Dr. Schnoll: No (ABC7)

Dr. Schnoll said he saw no evidence that MJ ever used recreational drug or self-injected in the absence of a doctor. The expert said he saw evidence MJ was afraid of needles; didn't take medications in excess of what was prescribed by doctors. (ABC7)

Dr. Schnoll talked about the surgery MJ to repair damage to his scalp.(ABC7)

Koskoff: On Dangerous tour, was MJ getting opioid drugs according to Dr. Finkelstein? Dr. Schnoll: Yes
Dr. Schnoll: I don’t know if MJ was an addict. I haven’t seen the information that would allow me to make a diagnosis of addiction
Koskoff: Was there a time MJ did take benzodiazepines? Dr. Schnoll: Yes
Dr. Schnoll said MJ was prescribed Midazolam and Versed which is commonly for short term surgical procedures, dental procedures.
Koskoff: Did he use it for sleep? Dr. Schnoll: Yes K: Is that appropriate? Dr: Yes K: Did MJ have a sleep problem? Dr: Yes (ABC7)

Dr. Schnoll treated patients addicted to Propofol. They were health technicians and none had it administered by another person. "Typically, they steal it from operating room or critical care unit or inject it in a home, or a bathroom," Dr. Schnoll explained. Dr. Schnoll said after the Propofol infusion stops, the effect wears off quickly. Propofol is the most popular anesthetic in the world, Dr. Schnoll said. Propofol is the generic term. (ABC7)

Koskoff showed a timeline and asked if there was any record MJ received Propofol during the Dangerous tour in 1994. Dr. Schnoll testified Debbie Rowe said yes, but she wasn't sure if it was Propofol or Fentanyl. He didn't think Rowe was a licensed nurse. Koskoff: What kind of specialist was on that tour for Michael? Dr. Schnoll: He was anesthesiologist. Between 1994 and 1996, Dr. Schnoll saw no evidence of any use of Propofol by MJ under any circumstance. The drug was used for dental procedures and cosmetic treatment, Dr. Schnoll said, adding it was appropriate for that. Dr. Murray used Propofol for sleep, which Dr. Schnoll said was inappropriate. "Plus, he was not an anesthetic or an anesthesiologist." Koskoff asked if there was any evidence MJ was addicted or dependent of Propofol up until Dr. Murray. Dr. Schnoll said no. Dr. Schnoll said Propofol is not appropriate to treat insomnia, even if MJ suggested it. (ABC7)

Dr. Schnoll talked about Dr. Klein giving MJ 100mg doses of Demerol in 2008. He said from mid-year to December it was the same amount. Dose went up in January 2009. Dr Schnoll said if a person was previously dependent on Demerol, stops and then resumes, tolerance is built up. Koskoff: Is there a record MJ was getting Demerol from any other doctor? Dr. Schnoll: No. The very last Demerol injection MJ received from Dr. Klein was on June 22, 100 mg dose, according to the records, Dr. Schnoll testified. Dr. School said there was no trace of the drug in MJ's body at the time of his death. He also said this drug would not have had effect on MJ on June 25. (ABC7)

Koskoff: What does Demerol do to sleep? Dr. Schnoll: When you are taking it, it could make you sleepy. "If you are dependent, you could have some insomnia if you go off of it," Dr. Schnoll testified. (ABC7)

Sometimes prescription is given under other people's names, Dr. Schnoll said, since celebrities often don't want people prying their records. Dr. Schnoll said once Frank Sinatra went to the hospital he worked after collapsing on the stage. The hospital computer overloaded with people trying to get information on what happened with Sinatra, Dr. Schnoll said. (ABC7)

Koskoff: Was Dr. Murray competent to handle MJ's pain? Dr. Schnoll: He was not competent. Koskoff: Was Dr. Murray competent to handle MJ's drug dependency issues? Dr. Schnoll: He was not competent
Koskoff: Was Dr. Murray competent to handle MJ's sleep problems? Dr. Schnoll: He was not competent
Koskoff: Assuming AEG hired Dr. Murray, was he fit and competent to treat Michael's pain problems? Dr. Schnoll: No, he was not
Koskoff: Assuming AEG hired Dr. Murray, was he fit and competent to treat Michael's sleep problems? Dr. Schnoll: No, he was not (ABC7)

Dr. Schnoll: Dr. Murray was an interventionist cardiologist and that is a highly specialized field. He had no background in treating pain. "They pass catheters and look at hearts, which is totally unrelated to pain," Dr. Schnoll said about cardiologists. (ABC7)

Koskoff asked if MJ were under the care of a competent doctor, would he have been able to get off the drugs, Demerol and benzodiazepines. Dr. Schnoll: If his underlying medical condition, pain, insomnia, had been appropriately treated, he may have been able to get off the drugs. "He would've been able to continue to perform if he was appropriately treated for the underlying medical conditions," Dr. Schnoll said. Dr. Schnoll testified MJ had two major problems: pain and insomnia. Dr. Schnoll: Should MJ have someone knowledgeable for treatment of pain, he could've been treated appropriately. Dr. Schnoll said if MJ were treated appropriately for pain and sleeping problems, it would not have an effect in shortening his life. (ABC7)

Koskoff: Assuming MJ was dependent, do you think proper treatment would be able to eliminate his dependency? Dr. Schnoll: Yes. Koskoff: Let's assume MJ really was addicted to Demerol in 2009, do you have an opinion as to his prognosis for successful treatment? Dr. Schnoll: He could've been treated, he could've been treated if he had the proper people. Having a supportive family and environment is critical in overcoming addiction, Dr. Schnoll explained. "The autopsy said he was in really, very good condition," Dr. Schnoll told the jury about MJ. Dr. Schnoll: Some of the best outcomes in treatment are with people who have a lot to lose if they continue their addiction.(ABC7)

Koskoff: Based on Mr. Jackson's family, do you know if any members of his family were addicted? Dr. Schnoll: I have no indication of that (ABC7)

Dr. Schnoll agreed MJ had the means to get proper drug dependency treatment.
Koskoff: Assuming he was not addicted, but had periods of drug dependency, would that have an impact on his life expectancy?
Dr. Schnoll: If appropriately treated, it would have no affect (ABC7)

Drug addicts can die early due to overdose; infections are very common, like HIV, Dr. Schnoll said. If MJ got proper treatment, he would have like normal life expectancy, Dr. Schnoll said. Keith Richards and The Rolling Stones have been performing for 50 years. Richards writes in his autobiography about his drug addiction. Dr. Schnoll said he's reading Richards' book, but hasn't finished yet. Defendant's objected to the doctor talking about it based on hearsay. (ABC7)

Schnoll said based on his review of medical records, he saw no evidence that Jackson was addicted to prescription meds. Schnoll reviewed medical records dating back until at least 1997. They included dental records, and files of Arnold Klein. The records showed that Jackson received propofol for dental procedures dating back to 1997, Schnoll said. Schnoll said it wasn’t clear if Jackson received propofol during the 1993 “Dangerous” tour because Debbie Rowe wasn’t clear. He said Rowe used two different names for medications she saw Jackson receive in 1993, so it wasn’t clear if propofol was used. Schnoll’s point about the documented use of propofol by Jackson was that it was in medical settings with proper supervision. Until Murray. The doctor also addressed Demerol use, saying there was no sign Jackson received the drug between 2003 and 2008. Schnoll said even if Jackson were addicted to medications, with proper treatment he could have lived a long, healthy life. (AP)

Koskoff finished direct examination.


AEG cross

AEG attorney Kathryn Cahan did cross examination of Dr. Schnoll.

Dr. Schnoll created the term "Rock Doc", referring to doctors who work on rock n roll concerts. Cahan: Do you think it's ethical for doctors to go on tour? Dr. Schnoll: It depends on what they do when they go on tour with them
I know some people who worked at concerts, Dr. Schnoll said. He has been one.
Dr. Schnoll said at times he was asked to treat performers, was hired to provide medical treatment at the facility to fans or artists.
Dr. Schnoll said his primary duty was to treat concert goers. He was paid by the promoters.
Cahan: Did you think that created a conflict of interest? Dr. Schnoll: As long as I acted ethically, I did not
Dr. Schnoll said he acted ethically at that job. He worked at rock concerts in the '70s. (ABC7)

Cahan asked if Dr Schnoll brought medical students to help him out. He said yes. She asked if he did background or credit checks on them. "I knew most of them and I knew them well," Dr. Schnoll said. (ABC7)

Cahan: You were never hired as a doctor to accompany a band on tour? Dr. Schnoll: That's correct (ABC7)

Dr. Schnoll works for Pinney Associates, he's a salaried employee and receives bonus at the end of the year, should there be one. Cahan said Pinney Associates is charging $790/hour for Dr. Schnoll's time. Dr. Schnoll said he has no idea how many hours he has worked in this case. He was retained back in January. There were weeks he put in 7-8 hours, some didn't do anything. He said it would be hard to estimate, spoke with plaintiff attorney 10-15 times (ABC7)

Dr. Schnoll said doctor shopping is going from doctor to doctor to receive medication. Pseudoaddiction is when a patient is undertreated for pain, Dr. Schnoll said. A professional doctor knows the difference between addiction and pseudoaddiction. (nurse juror nodding in agreement). (ABC7)

Dr. Schnoll: If they have a severe pain problem that can only be treated by opioids, it is appropriate to give it. Just the fact that Dr. Klein injected MJ with Demerol doesn't raise concern of a relapse of Demerol dependency, Dr. Schnoll. Cahan asked if it's common practice to use Demerol for Botox injections and facial fillers treatment. Dr. Schnoll responded he didn't know, since he doesn't do these procedures. Dr Schnoll said Demerol is not commonly used anymore because it has other effects than just opioids, considered a dirty drug the doctor said. Dr. Schnoll said use of Demerol for pain went into question in the '90s. Cahan: How common is for pain specialists to have Demerol handy? Dr. Schnoll: Probably not at all at this point, pain specialist would not keep Demerol handy. Dr. Schnoll said he last prescribed Demerol in the late 1970s. He stopped treating patients in 2001. (ABC7)

"There was no evidence of addiction at that time," Dr. Schnoll said about MJ in 2009. Dr. Schnoll did not offer opinion whether the amount or type of drug MJ was taking for cosmetic and dental work was appropriate. (ABC7)

Cahan: When you are evaluating a patient you rely on the patient being honest with you, correct? Dr. Schnoll: Yes
Cahan: Did some patients did not want to get treatment?
Dr. Schnoll: Well, of they came to me to treat addiction, they usually would come because they wanted to treat their addiction
Cahan: There has got to be some amount of trust between doctor and patient? Dr. Schnoll: Right (ABC7)

Dr. Schnoll said people get confused as to whether the patient is addicted or dependent of drugs. The expert said people would recognize there was something wrong with MJ, but may not be able to recognize it as withdrawal from opioids. Some of opioids withdrawal include chills, running nose, tearing of the eyes, dilated pupil, goose bumps. Dr. Schnoll said most doctors would be able to put all the symptoms together and conclude it is opioid withdrawal. The doctor agreed that some lay people could identify the symptoms as flu.(ABC7)

Dr. Schnoll said he has treated tens of thousands of patients and only 5-6 were addicted to Propofol. These people were in the medical field. Dr. Schnoll said some of the patients might have been addicted to Propofol, but others were just abusing it. (ABC7)

Outside the presence of the jury, judge discussed with the attorneys about Jean Seawright's testifying yesterday that AEG hired Dr. Murray. Judge said that violated the motion in limine regarding this issue. Experts are NOT to give their opinion on whether AEG hired Dr. Murray. Judge: This is your crucial, central issue in the case Mr. Panish. I'm surprised you had no discussion with her about it.Panish: I know you're upset, I can tell that Judge: I'm not upset, I think it's entirely appropriate Panish: I told her not to do it. Judge: there's a ruling prohibiting any testimony, by any expert, on the issue! An upset judge said: This is my concern, we are 9 weeks in this trial and it's getting into mistrial territory. I don't want to go there! Judge: I don't want this kind of problem that can lead to mistrial. I'm asking you to speak with all your experts. Judge: Every expert is only to make assumptions about hiring. I specifically did that (ruling) for a reason. Advise them about my order! Judge: I don't want a mistrial, it's a waste of resources Panish: I don't want a mistrial either. Judge: There are bright lines Mr. Panish and you don't even go near it because you may cross it accidentally. Panish: She said it, I wish she hadn't, I don't want a mistrial. Putnam said he agreed with the judge and agrees the instruction should be given as written. Judge: I don't know why you are pointing your fingers that way, Mr. Panish (to AEG's side). I really don't. Judge admonished Panish to tell all experts to abide by her motions in limine. (ABC7)

After the afternoon break, Judge Yvette Palazuelos returned to the testimony of HR expert Jean Seawright. She was upset about yesterday. The judge noted that expert witnesses had been instructed not to state opinions on whether AEG Live hired Conrad Murray. Seawright told the jury she thought AEG did hire Murray, based on a question from plaintiff’s attorney Brian Panish. Panish had asked whether Seawright she had an opinion on whether AEG Live hired Murray. He said today he thought it was a yes-no question. The judge said the answer veered into mistrial territory, and that Panish should have warned Seawright to not state her opinion. Panish protested, saying “All I was trying to show was that she was trying to show was that she has an opinion.” Palazuelos: “This is my concern. Nine weeks into this trial and this is getting in a mistrial situation.” (We’re in 10th wk of testimony.) Panish also said that he was trying to counter questions from AEG’s attorneys that suggested Seawright didn’t have an opinion. Palazuelos: “I don’t know why you’re pointing the finger that way.” She told Panish to make sure he warns his experts from now on. (AP)

Judge read them the following instruction: Yesterday, plaintiiff's expert Jean Seawright said she believed they, AEG, hired Dr Murray. That violated a court order, the statement is stricken, shouldn't be considered (ABC7) The jury was brought in, and Palazuelos read an instruction stating that Seawright violated a court order. The judge said the jury should disregard her testimony about whether AEG Live hired Conrad Murray. (AP)

Cahan asked if MJ was seeing other doctors at the same time he saw Dr. Murray, like Dr. Klein. Dr. Schnoll said yes. Cahan: Are you aware of Dr. Klein being investigated... Panish stopped and objected as improper. He asked for a sidebar.(ABC7)

Cahan: Did Dr. Klein write prescriptions to Mr. Jackson under other names? Dr. Schnoll: Yes. Cahan: Could MJ have opiates in pill forms in 2009 from doctors while having Demerol injections from Dr. Klein? Dr. Schnoll: I don't like to work under possibilities, since everything under the sun is possible. I like working with probabilities. Dr. Schnoll said you try to look at the whole picture of what was going on and not look at the possibilities, but probabilities. Cahan: Is it legal to write prescription to someone under another name? Dr. Schnoll: Yes, it's illegal C: Have you ever done it? Dr: No (ABC7)

Cahan asked if Dr. Schnoll testified in his deposition that MJ was dependent on Demerol? He answered yes, the time around the Dangerous tour. However, Dr. Schnoll says today he's not sure MJ was dependent on Demerol in 2009. He said he continued to investigate the case, looked at more records, and is now uncertain. He's also not absolutely sure, but says MJ was probably dependent on Demerol in 1993. Dr. Schnoll said he could not opine whether the treatment after the burn on MJ's scalp was appropriate.Dr. Schnoll said he doesn't think MJ was dependent on Demerol in January of 2009. (ABC7)

In April 2009, MJ received 375 mg of Demerol, the highest amount given by Dr. Klein. Cahan asked what would happen if doctor gave her 375 mg of Demerol. "For you? You'd probably sleep for a while, about several hours" he said. Dr. Schnoll said he would probably give her initial dose of 50 mg. (ABC7)

The expert said that if the withdrawal symptoms were present, someone might have asked why MJ had the flu. (ABC7)

Dr. Schnoll said he asked for a chart to be made to be able to see how much Demerol MJ was getting and how frequent. "Was he really dependent?" Dr. Schnoll asked himself. He said the appearance of withdrawal from Demerol usually shows within 24-36 hours. "It didn't coincide with when I expected that withdrawal to occur," Dr. Schnoll said about MJ. Dr. Schnoll: It was very hard for me to say he was dependent that time. He doesn't think the symptoms MJ was having on June 19, 2009 were related to Demerol withdrawal. (ABC7)

Cahan asked about patients who think they have their addiction under control and don't want to quit the drug. "That's why your job is to motivate them and help them see the problems with the dependency," Dr. Schnoll responded. Dr. Schnoll said he didn't have 100% success rate in his practice and that no one does. Dr. Schnoll: MJ could've been off the drugs or taking the drugs in appropriate dosages if properly treated (ABC7)

Cahan asked about MJ's family failed interventions. He said he doesn't know if they were appropriately done; practice not used as much.(ABC7)

Cahan asked if Dr. Schnoll reviewed testimony that MJ had boxes of Propofol at Neverland and asked a doctor to inject him. He said yes. Dr. Schnoll said he saw a concern one time of MJ going to Santa Ynez Cottage Hospital for excessive use of Demerol.(ABC7)

Dr. Schnoll said he looked at the totality of the picture, like a puzzle, trying to put everything together to understand what was going on. "They were not symptoms of Demerol withdrawal, but probably of Propofol," Dr. Schnoll testified about MJ's symptoms in June 2009. (ABC7)

On cross-examination, she tried to make the point that it’s hard for a lay person to tell difference between addiction and dependency. AEG defense attorney Kathryn Cahan also asked Schnoll about Demerol. He called it a “dirty opioid.” The doctor said he probably hadn’t prescribed Demerol since the 1970s. (He hasn’t been practicing with patients for several years.) (AP)


Jackson redirect


Koskoff asked in re-direct if Propofol was given for the drug or underlying condition. Dr. Schnoll said MJ asked Propofol to help him sleep. (ABC7)


AEG recross


Cahan in re-cross: What did nurse Cherilyn Lee said to MJ when he was looking for a doctor to give him Propofol? Dr. Schnoll said Lee responded that MJ was taking chances. (ABC7)

Jackson redirect


Koskoff noted that MJ replied it would be safe if done under the supervision of a doctor. Koskoff: And Dr. Murray gave it to him? Dr. Schnoll: Yes (ABC7)

Dr. Schnoll was then excused and session adjourned.

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Jury ordered to return on Monday at 10 am PT. Plaintiffs will play Dr Finkelstein's deposition. Kenny Ortega set to testify in the afternoon

 

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Jacksons vs AEG - Day 44 – July 8 2013 – Summary

Katherine and Rebbie Jackson is at court.

Dr. Stuart Finkelstein Deposition Video

Dr. Finkelstein said he worked at Cerritos Family Clinic until 2 years ago with his ex-wife Petra Wong, now works at Stuart Finkelstein, MD. Dr. Finkelstein is a specialist in internal and addiction medicine. He described his experience and residency to the jury. He is a leader in treating addiction for over 20 years and he said he considers himself an expert. (ABC7)

Dr. Finkelstein was hired to work on the Dangerous Tour in 1993. He said he was in Bangkok, MJ performed a concert. After he performed, Dr. Finkelstein said he was requested to go to MJ's hotel room. (ABC7)

Boyle: Who hired you for Dangerous Tour? Dr. Finkelstein: Marcel Avram B: What was your role? Dr: To be the physician for the crew (ABC7)

Dr. Finkelstein said he was not hired to treat the artist. But in Bangkok, he was called by security. "He said you need to go to the principal." the doctor recalled. Dr. Finkelstein: He appeared to be in pain, I was put on the phone with his treating physician in Los Angeles, Dr. Alan Metzger. Dr Metzger said MJ was had severe headache, was in a lot of pain. Dr Finkelstein said he didn't remember if he was told what medicine to use. Dr. Finkelstein said he tried to give him a shot but his butt was so abscessed the needle almost bent. "I thought it was not safe," he said. Dr. Finkelstein administered morphine instead. In 1993, the doctor said he was not an expert in addiction. Boyle: But you were spending half of your time in addiction medicine? Dr. Finkelstein: I knew what I was doing and I was qualified, licensed. Dr. Finkelstein: I spent the next 24 hours in his room intermittently administering medication 'til MJ was capable going on stage in Bangkok. The doctor said he administered morphine and IV fluids. MJ was conscious and speaking. The doctor said they were watching 3 Stooges and having squirt gun fights. They talked about growing up in Encino on Hayvenhurst. Boyle: You became confident he was capable of going on tour? Dr Finkelstein: Bad question,I administered medicine until he could go on stage. Dr. Finkelstein watched MJ on stage and said he was able to perform. The second concert in Bangkok was postponed for one day. The doctor said the publicist told him to go on CNN and say MJ put so much effort in the show and was dehydrated. (ABC7)

Dr. Finkelstein said MJ had an opiate problem, dependency. Dr. Finkelstein: MJ had 100 micro gram duragesic patch on and there were 2 ampules of Demerol that were sent to him with another crew member. The doctor said he had someone he felt that obviously had received a lot of medication in the past, had a high tolerance to medication. Dr Finkelstein: It was early in my training, but it was obviously a concern for me. Duragesic is also called Fentanyl, another opiate. Boyle: You testified about 2 ampules – what were you talking about, the ampules of Demerol? Dr. Finkelstein: We are talking about natural opiates and synthetic opiates. The patch, the medication is absorbed through the skin. The doctor said the ampules were given to him by the make artist, Karen Faye. They were for MJ. (ABC7)

Boyle: There were four factors that lead you to believe MJ was an opioid dependent? Dr. Finkelstein: Yes, the patch, 2 ampules of Demerol from Karen Faye, observation that MJ had a high tolerance and scarring on his buttocks. "He had obviously had multiple injections in his buttocks prior to coming to Bangkok," Dr. Finkelstein said. (ABC7)

Paul Gongaware used to be the road manager for Rick James, Dr. Finkelstein said. He and Gongaware used to go skiing together. Dr. Finkelstein said Gongaware called him to go on a rock tour in 1993. The doctor would be paid by the promoter. (ABC7)

The doctor said he postponed the Bangkok tour. "I think we are going to have a problem," Dr. Finkelstein told Gongaware. Dr. Finkelstein said he told Gongaware he didn't want to be a Doctor Nick. Doctor Nick was Elvis Presley's doctor. Dr. Finkelstein said Elvis had about 14 different drugs in his system when he died. "You don’t want to overdose a rock star and have a rockstar die on you," Dr. Finkelstein explained. (ABC7)

Dr Finkelstein: When I tried to administer the medication and his butt was abscessed, I tried to give promoters heads up there was a problem.He said he believed MJ had a drug problem. "But no one believed me," Dr. Finkelstein said. Dr. Finkelstein: I was not hired as an addiction specialist but a family doctor to come on tour. The doctor said they began believing him in Mexico City during the Dangerous Tour. (ABC7)

After Dr. Finkelstein treated MJ, an English doctor was brought in, Dr. Forecast. One day, Dr. Finkelstein said he returned from a pyramid trip and his suitcase with all the medication had been broken in to. Dr. Finkelstein said Dr. Forecast broke into his suitcase to get pain medications to give to MJ. Dr. Finkelstein said he wanted to detox MJ in Switzerland and go on tour. Dr. Forecast was the other doctor treating MJ. Dr. Finkelstein said he had enough medication for all 160 people going on tour, any scenario. (ABC7)

Dr. Finkelstein: The head powers got together. They called in Elizabeth Taylor to do an intervention and took MJ to a Hospital in London. Dr. Finkelstein said he didn't know exactly who the powers that be were. "He didn't collapse," Dr. Finkelstein said. "It seemed it was getting a harder and harder time to manage his pain." There was also a video deposition of MJ in Mexico City related to the Chandler child molestation case. The stress increased MJ's urge for opioids, Dr. Finkelstein said. Elisabeth Taylor personally went to Mexico City to deal with MJ. (ABC7)

Dr. Finkelstein said Dr. Forecast took care of the principal, Mr. Jackson. He does not know who was paying Dr. Forecast. (ABC7)

Finkelstein and Gongaware are friends, he said. Boyle: Did you discuss with Mr. Gongaware about MJ's opioid dependency? Dr Finkelstein: Yes (ABC7)


Dr. Finkelstein: I know that I administered pain medication one other time when Dr. Forecast was not available. "I saw Dr. Forecast administer pain medication in Mexico City during the deposition," Dr. Finkelstein said. Dr. Finkelstein said he and Dr. Forecast were in communications and Dr Forecast was concerned in being blamed for work done by previous docs. (ABC7)

Boyle: Is substance abuse a character flaw?
Dr. Finkelstein: No. I believe it to be either genetically pre-disposed, or people who get exposed to these chemicals their brain changes (ABC7)

"He was a sweetheart, kind, gentle, fun," Dr. Finkelstein said about MJ. "Based on my observation, he was kind to everyone." (ABC7)

Boyle: Gongware was aware of problems MJ was having? Dr. Finkelstein: Yes (ABC7)

Dr. Finkelstein said he and Dr. Forecast agreed that MJ needed an intervention and detox. (ABC7)

Dr. Finkelstein explained his name is out there as a "Rock Doc," so he gets call from show producers and promoters to work at concerts. (ABC7)

Dr Finkelstein testified Gongaware called him about two months prior to MJ's death and told him MJ was going to tour in London, wanted a doctor. Dr. Finkelstein said he was excited about it, wanted to be MJ's physician, had 5-10 conversations with Gongaware about it. Dr. Finkelstein said he asked if Gongaware knew whether MJ was clean. The answer was yes. The doctor explained he would not want to go on tour if MJ had drug problems. "I didn't want to be Dr. Nick," Dr. Finkelstein said. Gongaware told him MJ was clean and passed a physical exam for insurance. Dr. Finkelstein said he would charge $40,000/month, $10,000/week. He remembers Dr. Murray asking for a lot of money to go on tour. (ABC7)

Dr. Finkelstein said there are not lot of cases of Propofol dependency, since it is a drug that's really hard to get. He said the mortality rate in Propofol dependents is really high, about 80%. Most of the dependents are in the medical field. Dr. Finkelstein said people from all walks of live can become opioid dependent. (ABC7)

The doctor's brother, Bob Finkelstein, worked at Concerts West with Paul Gongaware. He knows Randy Phillips socially. (ABC7)
Dr. Finkelstein said there were not a lot of discussions about the tour, since he didn't get the job. "Michael wanted someone else," Dr. Finkelstein said Gongaware told him. "Gongaware was my friend, tried to get me the job, I didn't get it." (ABC7)

Kathryn Cahan, attorney for AEG, did cross examination Dr. Finkelstein said he would administer 50-100 mg of Demerol in MJ, on his buttocksThe doctor said there were several scars on MJ's buttocks, which led him to conclude MJ was dependent in opioids. Dr. Finkelstein said the Demerol was prescribed by Dr. Alan Metzger in the name of Karen Faye. The drug was not for her, though. Dr. Finkelstein said he gave MJ 10 mg of morphine. The usual starting dose is 2 -4 mg, but MJ had high tolerance to opioids. The doctor said he believed MJ was in pain every time the doctor administered him morphine. (ABC7)

Cahan asked Dr. Finkelstein is he ever administered Propofol to Michael Jackson. He answered no, laughing. Dr. Finkelstein said his interaction with MJ was very limited. Dr. Forecast was in charge of the artist. When other doctors, like Steve Hoefflin and Arnold Klein, would come to a concert to visit, the show would get delayed, Dr. Finkelstein said. "Everything was secretive," Dr. Finkelstein said, explaining seems like no one ever knew the whole story. "it was compartmentalized and people were separated and segregated," Dr. Finkelstein said. Dr. Klein -- would show up at concerts very frequently, Dr. Hoefflin came a couple of times, would spend the weekend, Dr. Finkelstein said. (ABC7)

Dr. Finkelstein was asked to treat MJ in Mexico City when Dr. Forecast wasn't around. MJ had back pain, Dr. Finkelstein gave him morphine. Dr Finkelstein said Narcan is antidote to opioids. He had it handy. "If I am going to administer medication I'm going to have a safety plan" (ABC7)


Dr. Finkelstein said he kept a journal of everything he did during the tour and he was backstage, his records were stolen. He said he left some records at his mom's house and purged MJ's record from 95 since he wasn't a patient for 7 years. (ABC7)
"Michael had a lot of pain, I administered a shot and left," Dr. Finkelstein said. (ABC7)

Finkelstein said he first suspected Jackson had a dependence on pain medications in 1993 while working on the "Dangerous" tour. He recounted spending 24 hours in the singer's hotel suite and administering morphine intravenously to deal with Jackson's pain.
He said he gave Jackson morphine during their first meeting because the singer's buttocks were scarred from previous unspecified treatments and he was concerned about giving an injection of the painkiller Demerol. He said he also noticed that Jackson appeared to have a high tolerance for morphine and had on a patch that administered another opiate drug. Finkelstein said he gave Jackson one other painkiller treatment before the "Dangerous" tour was halted after what he described as an intervention by Elizabeth Taylor and others in Mexico City. (AP)

Dr. Stuart Finkelstein said he was later asked by concert promoter AEG Live to act as Jackson's personal physician during the ill-fated "This Is It" tour in 2009 but wanted to know if Jackson was "clean." AEG executive Paul Gongaware said he didn't believe Jackson had any prescription drug issues, Finkelstein testified. Finkelstein said he and Gongaware had five to 10 conversations in 2009 about working on Jackson's "This Is It" shows. Finkelstein said he wanted $40,000 a month and was not hired. (AP)


Kenny Ortega Testimony

Before Kenny Ortega started testifying, judge heard arguments on whether he should be designated an “adverse” witness. Being classified an adverse witness doens't mean Ortega would be deemed hostile, just changes the way questions can be asked. Plaintiff’s attorney Brian Panish wanted him designated as an adverse witness, but AEG Live’s side said that was improper. The judge agreed the Ortega shouldn’t be deemed an adverse witness to start, but said she would revisit it depending on Ortega’s answers. Panish wanted the adverse witness designation because he claimed Ortega was an “agent” of AEG Live. The company objected to that label. (AP)

Jackson direct

Attorney for Jacksons Brian Panish did direct examination.

Ortega reviewed his deposition but did not read testimony given at Dr. Murray's criminal trial. Ortega said he read some articles about this trial. He also read Karen Faye's deposition, given to him by his attorney. The director was deposed in the Lloyds of London litigation for several days. (ABC7)

Panish asked what Ortega reviewed to prepare for his testimony. Ortega said he reviewed his own emails, Karen Faye’s deposition testimony, and his Conrad Murray criminal trial testimony. He said he didn't review his preliminary hearing testimony. Panish mentioned that Faye’s deposition was seven days, which drew an objection from Putnam. The lawyers sniped over how many days it lasted. Putnam also objected a couple times to Panish’s questions, saying they were leading. Judge overruled objections. Panish then told Ortega, “They’ll be objecting, so try not to let that distract you.” (AP)

Panish and Ortega then went over how the choreographer’s contract for the “This Is It” came about. (AP)Ortega said he had a contract with AEG Live. "I was working in communication with them," he said. For certain things, Ortega said he reported to Paul Gongaware and Randy Phillips. Ortega said his agent and attorney negotiated his contract with AEG Live. Gongaware represented AEG Live. Ortega said at one point his rep said the negotiation turned from AEG Live to Michael Jackson. He doesn't know the details, though. (ABC7)

Ortega was having trouble hearing Panish and at one point asked him to speak up. Ortega had trouble with a couple questions. Ortega: “I actually have hearing loss, so it’s not your fault.” Panish started speaking up, but proceedings became less tense. (AP) Ortega said he has earring loss, so he can't hear well. He asked Panish to speak up. (ABC7)

He said he's a director, choreographer and sometimes producer. "My role in This Is It, I was Michael's creative partner in the show." Ortega said for the creative part, he reported to Michael and to AEG regarding budget or scheduling. Ortega said AEG was Michael's partner in promoting and producing TII, and they were financers of the project. (ABC7) Panish asked Ortega about “This Is It” and his role on the shows. The choreographer said he was Michael Jackson’s creative partner. Ortega added that he reported on financial and scheduling issues to AEG Live. He says he kept them updated on the “creative growth.” (AP)

Panish asked whether Ortega has worked with AEG Live since “This is It.” He has, he worked on Rolling Stones’ recent tour. (AP) The director said he was called by Mick Jagger to work on the 50th anniversary tour, working with AEG. Ortega: I believe Mick Jagger just made me an offer and we accepted it. My agent called me, daily offer, I accepted. Ortega's rep dealt with Paul Gongaware in The Rolling Stones tour. (ABC7) Ortega said he saw the Stones’ show when it was in LA. He saw and talked to Paul Gongaware at the show. Ortega said he saw Randy Phillips at the Stones’ show as well, but they didn’t speak. Ortega said he's friends with Gongaware, Phillips. Panish asked Ortega whether he was friends with Michael Jackson. The choreographer said yes. (AP)

Panish: Do you consider yourself friend with Gongaware? Ortega: Yes
Panish: Do you consider yourself friend with Randy Phillips? Ortega: Yes
Panish: Do you consider yourself friend with MJ? Ortega: Yes (ABC7)

Ortega was originally named a defendant in this case. Panish asked if he knew why he was dismissed from the suit. "I'm not an employee of AEG," Ortega responded. (ABC7) Panish mentioned that Ortega was originally a named defendant in the suit. He asked if Ortega knew why he was dismissed. He said yes. The director said he believed he was dismissed because he wasn’t an employee of AEG Live. (AP)

Panish then asked Ortega about his biography. He was born in Redwood City, Calif. and grew up in San Mateo County. He talked about seeing the Jackson 5 in local theater when he was growing up. He saw Michael Jackson after the show. Ortega: “Michael was walking through the backstage and he made eye contact with me. ... I was in just in such awe of him and the brothers.” “It was such a momentous moment for me, it was like being touched by a star,” Ortega said of seeing Michael Jackson. Panish then asked Ortega about his credits. He’s directed films in the “High School Musical” franchise, “Newsies.” He also did the choreography for “Dirty Dancing,” the Chicago parade scenes in “Ferris Bueller’s Day Off” and Madonna’s “Material Girl” video. Panish played clips from all of the movies and Madonna video mentioned above to show off Ortega’s credentials. (AP)

Ortega said he is from Redwood City, CA, grew up in the Bay area. Ortega said he started dancing when he was 4 years old. There was always music at his house, watched his parents dance. He opened up his own theater company when he was 18. Ortega said around 1963-64, Michael was walking through backstage they made eye contact. "He looked at me and smiled. I was overwhelmed," Ortega said. Ortega: I was in such awe of him and the brothers. It was such a momentous moment for me, it was like being touched by a star. Choreographer creates the dance steps, movements in a stage show or concert or musical, Ortega explained. Ortega said he didn't do the choreography for the This Is It tour. It was lots of people, some was classic and belonged to MJ for some time. Travis Payne was MJ's partner for the new choreography in TII. Ortega worked on High School Musical 1, 2 and 3, Dirty Dancing, Newsies, Pretty in Pink, St. Elmo's Fire, etc. Ortega did choreography for Cher, Madonna, Kiss, Diana Ross, Barbra Streisand, Bette Midler. Panish showed a video clip of Madonna's "Material Girl." Ortega has been asked to do a new "Dirty Dancing" but he's not sure it will happen.Panish showed excerpt of it with Patrick Swayze and Jennifer Grey; snippet of "Newsies," 1st full-length picture he directed/choreographed. Panish showed clip of High School Musical. He directed and choreographed 1, 2 and 3. HS Musical 1 and 2 were released on TV only, 3 was a movie. "It was the number one opening weekend of any musical ever," Ortega said. (ABC7)

Michael and the children went to see High School Musical in Las Vegas. Panish: How did it make you feel? Ortega: (long pause) I'm speechless, I can't think P: Was that a big thrill? O: Beyond. "I know for sure Paris was singing, they were all standing and enjoying it," Ortega recalled. MJ went backstage. "The cast, they were just crying, and screaming, and just speechless," Ortega said. "He was very generous, very sweet and kind to everyone," Ortega said about Michael Jackson. (ABC7) Ortega recounted when the “High School Musical” live tour played in Las Vegas, Michael Jackson brought his children to the show. Prince, Paris and Blanket stood throughout the show, clapping and singing along to some of the songs, Ortega said. Ortega recounted the cast’s reaction to meeting Jackson. “They were just crying, screaming and speechless,” Ortega recalled. (AP)


Ortega choreographed the 96 Olympics in Atlanta, 2002 Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City, Super Bowl half time, World Cup. Ortega: Choreography is about the movement of the human body, technique, dance language, physical, how to instruct (ABC7)

Ortega first met MJ in 1990. "MJ called me to help mount the Dangerous Tour," he said. "I felt incredible, he was the greatest performer on the planet and as far as I'm concerned. The greatest song and dance man ever." He said he was co-director of Dangerous with MJ. MJ had a ton of ideas, asked him to realize those on stage. "It was exciting, stimulating, awesome," Ortega said. Ortega described Michael Jackson: Musician: world class Singer: one of a kind Dancer: the best. (ABC7)

The choreographer recalled MJ calling him in 1990 to work the “Dangerous” tour. Ortega said he was excited to work with Jackson. “He was the greatest performer on the planet as far as I was concerned.” Ortega was very complementary of Jackson. “I think he was the most influential dancer for generations of kids,” he said at one point. Panish then played the opening of the “This is It” concert film. It’s the part featuring the backup dancers talking about MJ’s influence. He said Jackson said “This Is It” was primarily Jackson’s vision. “He wanted to rock the world, he wanted them to know he was back.” Panish then showed Ortega the opening of the “Dangerous” tour. Jackson popped up on stage, stood there for several moments. Ortega explained the effects. Jackson emerged from a “toaster” _ a device that “popped you up like a piece of toast.” Jackson’s long pause on stage _ to an endless cheer _ was what the singer would call “milking the crowd,” Ortega recalled. He said Jackson differed from some other performers. He wanted his concert openings to be huge. Panish asked Ortega whether he knew that Jackson donated “Dangerous” profits to charity. Ortega said he didn’t know that. The lawyer also wanted Ortega to describe one of Jackson’s trips to an orphanage in Romania. Ortega said he didn’t recall the visit. (AP)

Ortega has worked in the industry for over 40 years. Panish asked Ortega how MJ influenced other dancers. "Like no one else in his generation," Ortega said. "I think he was the most influential dancer for generations of kids still even today. Panish showed clip of "This Is It" movie showing the young dancers who had been chosen to dance with MJ and how he influenced them. Ortega: It was primarily Michael's vision that I shared. He wanted to put on the greatest show that anyone had ever seen. "He wanted to rock the world," Ortega said. "He wanted to let them know he was back." The opening of the show was significant to MJ. He wanted the audience to think how will be able to top that!, Ortega testified. "He always wanted something that was world class and thrilling," Ortega said. Ortega helped prepared the opening of the Dangerous tour in 1992. Michael would enter the stage in what they called "toaster." The "toaster" popped up and gave illusion of flying. Ortega said MJ would then stand still on stage for a few minutes. "He would call that milking the crowd," Ortega explained. "He knew how to work the crowd better than anybody." Panish showed clip of opening of Dangerous. "It was one of the most spectacular openings that anyone has seen or done," Ortega said. "It left people breathless," Ortega said. MJ went to an orphanage in Romania before going to his hotel. Ortega said MJ didn't want to do the show before the orphanage was cleaned up. MJ wanted to make sure every child had what they needed, Ortega explained. Ortega said MJ wanted to improve the human condition for children around the world. (ABC7)

Ortega was asked whether he knew if Jackson was addicted to painkillers on the “Dangerous” tour. He said he didn’t know. Ortega said he didn’t know, even up until today, that Jackson had problems with painkillers during “Dangerous” shows. (AP) Panish: Did you know Michael was dependent on painkillers? Ortega: No P: Never heard of that? O: No P: To this day? O: No (ABC7) The choreographer said he had no role in ending “Dangerous” tour. Ortega said he knew Jackson suffered pain, but never saw him take meds. Ortega was asked at one point whether he ever saw Jackson act different after doctor visits. He said yes.He described MJ as "off." (AP)

In 1995, Ortega was acting as a consultant to MJ for an event at Beacon Theater in NY. Panish: Did you ever become aware he was not well? Ortega: He was unhappy. Ortega: He called me in because he was unhappy with what was going on with his classic choreography, he didn't want it to be changed. Ortega said MJ fainted and the show was cancelled. Panish: Can we say he collapsed? Ortega: Yes. MJ was then transported to the hospital by ambulance. "It could've been exhaustion, I don't know, I don't recall," Ortega said. (ABC7) Ortega was also asked about preparing Jackson for shows at NY’s Beacon Theatre. He was asked whether he grew concerned about MJ’s condition. The choreographer responded that he knew Jackson was unhappy. He said MJ told him he was displeased because of changes to his dance moves. Ortega: “He didn’t want some of his work changed.” He was there when Jackson collapsed on stage. Ortega described the incident this way: “It appeared that he fainted and the show was canceled.” Panish asked him whether it would be fair to say he collapsed. Ortega replied, “It could have been.” He said he knows Jackson was taken by ambulance, but didn’t know more details. (AP)

The pair next worked together on the “HIStory” tour. Ortega said he never had any problems working with Jackson. He said MJ described any differences as “creative jousting.” (AP) In "HIStory" tour Ortega and MJ were co-creators & co-directors. "We used to call creative jousting," Ortega described the creative process. Ortega: We didn't always agree on 100%, we allowed ourselves to have creative joust, to play with the ideas and allowed it to ripe. Panish: Was his creativity or demeanor different? Ortega: He was still inspired, raised the bar on himself and on everyone working with him. Ortega: The video used for the show would have subtitles saying love one another, take care of the planet, take care of the children. (ABC7)

Ortega said he went on first 6 or so dates on both "Dangerous" and "HIStory" tour. He explained it was the normal amount. (ABC7)

Panish showed video of "HIStory" tour opening. Ortega said MJ wanted his music to inspire change in the world. "Greatest example of it is Man in the Mirror," Ortega said. "Change needs to happen within each of us for a change in the world to happen. Ortega said the song "What About Us?" showed Michael's deep concern about healing the planet. "And that went deep," Ortega said. Panish showed clip of Earth song. Ortega talked about shows that MJ did for charity. (ABC7) Panish then played the opening video from the “HIStory” tour, which uses computer animations to show Jackson in a pod. The pod went on a roller coaster track through historical places (the Sphinx, Chrysler Building) and historical events played. When the video ended, a pod rose from the stage and Jackson appeared. He shed his helmet and suit and began dancing. Ortega said it was important to Jackson that he inspire change. (AP)

He was then asked about the Munich show, when a bridge fell with MJ on it. Jackson continued performing, but Ortega said he was taken to the hospital after the show. MJ reported back pain after that. (AP) Ortega: In Munich, Michael was on a set held up by cables. During the big conclusion of Earth song there was a bridge supposed to float down. Ortega said because an improper cable replacement, the bridge came down faster that it was supposed to. "I know he hurt his back," Ortega said. MJ jumped up and went back on the stage. "The show must go on." Ortega said he thinks MJ had back problems afterwards. But the director said he never saw MJ take medication. (ABC7)

Panish: Did you observe MJ different after seeing a doctor? Ortega: Yes P: Please explain O: Off, a little off P: Loopy? O: Yeah. "He was a little... off, loopy," Ortega said. Panish: Did anyone tell you they thought MJ was 'assisted' with something? Ortega: No. Ortega: The scalp burn, I didn't know he was taking medication for it, I knew he was injured from the Pepsi commercial. (ABC7)

Ortega said TII was going to be in London and there was hope for international tour. Ortega: If the show were to go on to other countries, then I would receive royalties, yes (ABC7)

Panish started asking about preps for “This Is It.” AEG Live reached out to Ortega about working with Jackson on the London shows. A few new emails were displayed before court ended. (AP) Ortega said Paul Gongaware and John Meglan were the ones who contacted him about being part of the TII tour. Email on Feb 10, 2009 from Gongaware to Ortega was the first email the director remembers about the TII. Ortega said MJ kept referring to the tour as "This Is It," so Ortega suggested the tour should be called TII. At this time, Ortega was working on development of movie for Paramount, "Footloose" remake. He was going to direct it. At times, Ortega said he can work in multiple projects, but once one takes off he needs to be exclusive to it. (ABC7)

Ortega said Randy Phillips never told him what happened before the TII press conference with Michael Jackson. He said had he known, it would have had an impact on whether to go forward with TII. "I didn't know anything had happened and I wasn't there, so there wasn't anything to be surprised about," Ortega said"Honestly, I didn't even know if it was for sure," Ortega said. He testified in his depo he was surprised Phillips didn't tell him anything. (ABC7) Panish asked Ortega whether Randy Phillips told him about Jackson’s behavior before the “This Is It” press conference. Ortega said no. Ortega said if he had known about Phillips’ description of Jackson being despondent, it might have impacted his decision to work on show. (AP)

Panish then showed a couple new emails between Ortega and Paul Gongaware. They were about the “This Is It” ticket sales. Gongaware email to Ortega: “Blew out 30 shows today on the presale. Hot doesn’t begin to describe it!" Ortega replied: “I’d say we’re off to a good start LOL congrats to all at AEG!” In another email from March 13, 2009, Gongaware told Ortega they stopped selling tickets at 50 shows. The men also planned a meeting with Jackson at Sony Studios to show off some new effects, the second email showed. AEG Live objected to the emails, saying they weren’t on the exhibit list. Jackson attorneys said they were. (AP)

Email on 3/12/09 from Gongaware to Ortega: Blew out 30 shows today on the presale. Hot doesn't begin to describe it. Ortega responded: I'd say we are off to a good start. Congrats to all. Gongaware responded: We stopped at 50 sold out shows at the O2 arena. Demand was there for another 50. This is history and you're part of it. Ortega responded: Yeah! Good for MJ, God knows he's been out through as much negative as any one person should have to go through. Great news, I couldn't be happier for the Team. (ABC7)

 

[ivy]

Jacksons vs AEG - Day 45 – July 9 2013 – Summary

Katherine and Rebbie Jackson are in court.


Kenny Ortega Testimony


Jackson direct

Ortega said he didn't want to change any of his testimony from yesterday. His lawyer drove him home yesterday. (ABC7)

Panish began testimony by asking Ortega if he was familiar with his “This Is It” contract. Ortega said he’d need to see it to talk about it. Ortega was then asked who was paying his lawyer’s fees. Ortega said AEG Live was paying for his lawyer, but he picked the attorney. The director-choreographer said he hadn’t consulted with his attorney since yesterday about trial testimony. (AP) Ortega said he's not familiar with the details of his contract. Ortega chose his attorney for this case, but AEG is paying for it. (ABC7)

Panish asked Ortega about the Randy Phillips emails about the “This Is It” press conference. Ortega said yesterday he wasn’t told about problems preceding the conference. He said it would have impacted decision to work on “TII.” Panish asked if Ortega wouldn’t have worked on the shows knowing the problems because he cared about MJ. Ortega said yes. (AP) Panish asked how Ortega would've been impacted had he known MJ's condition on the day of the press conference. Panish: Less wanting to do it? Ortega: Yes P: Less wanting to do it because of MJ's condition? O: Yes. Panish: Because you cared about MJ's condition? Ortega: Yes (ABC7)

Panish asked if at times Ortega would want to meet with MJ alone. Ortega said yes. "In order to get into each other's head and for me to be in the same page with MJ on where his plans were for the show," Ortega explained. (ABC7)

Ortega said he was only involved in the negotiation of Travis Payne's payment. (ABC7)

Panish asked if AEG wanted to do production within reasonable costs. "I think that's general position of responsible producers," Ortega said. "I didn't discuss financing with MJ," Ortega said. (ABC7)

Ortega had not worked with MJ for more than 10 years. In terms of creativity, Ortega said not much had changed between the two. Jackson and Travis were more involved in the actual dance steps and performances, Ortega said. (ABC7)

"I think Baryshnikov and Michael battled it up to see who could do more multiple 360s," Ortega testified. Ortega said the turns are called pencil turns, and he compared MJ to the famous ballet dancer Mikhail Baryshnikov. (ABC7)

"My goal was to edit together the pieces to tell a story about what Michael's goals for the show were," Ortega explained. Ortega said he obviously wanted to make Michael look good, but the intention was to tell the story. (ABC7)

Panish showed an email with names of artists who were to be involved in the "This Is It" tour. Ortega said Karen Faye reached out to him, had already spoken with MJ about being part of the crew. Ortega said Bugzee was not the stage manager. He worked under Paul Gongaware as accountant, Ortega explained. "I wouldn't have called him stage manager," Ortega said about Bugzee (Houghdahl). Panish: Did you ask Bugzee to write an email on your behalf? Ortega: Not that I recall (ABC7)

Email on March 25, 2009 from Gongaware to Ortega: Kenny, I'm afraid we may not be able to meet your financial requirements for a deal. I'm totally bummed by this. Couldn't sleep last night trying to figure it out. We need to move forward quickly. Email cont'd: I know, but I haven't been able to find a way to make this work. My deepest, most sincere apology. Paul G (ABC7)


"I remember it had to be approved by Mr. Jackson," Ortega said about the email. He testified he never spoke about money with MJ. Judge asked what "financial requirements" meant to him, and Ortega said it referred to his salary. Panish: Were you surprised? Ortega: Was I surprised? No "Not what I expected, but sometimes negotiations take time," Ortega explained. Panish asked if this was a negotiation tactic? Ortega smiled and answered perhaps. Ortega didn't think the negotiations were dead. He kept working in good faith. Ortega and Payne share the same agent (Julie McDonald). He and Payne continued working without a contract. "It was my hope and in the end we would come to terms," Ortega said. Ortega: It would all work out and I kept the faith that that would happen. Ortega said he performed auditions for dancers, singers, band and interviewed various people for various designer's role. (ABC7)

Ortega doesn't know when he signed his contract. Panish showed a copy of Ortega's contract. It was executed on April 25, 2009. Ortega did not have a written agreement when he did the dancers audition. (ABC7)

Ortega Contract: The principal terms and conditions of Employer and Employee's engagement for the Concerts are set forth in the agreement. (the "Agreement) between Company, on the one hand, and Employer and Employee, on the other hand, as previously confirmed in emails between the parties' representatives, which such emails are attached hereto as Exhibit "A" and incorporated herein by this reference. The contract says Ortega could get a total of $1.5 million, plus $100K for each of the five territories and $250K for the US. (ABC7)

The concerts were supposed to start in London on July 8. Ortega: Michael and I both wanted to extend our time before opening, so I felt comfortable taking the heat (of postponing it). "As a director of the show, I didn't feel we would be ready for the show's original dates," Ortega said. (ABC7)

Email on 5/19/09 from Ortega regarding the postponement of the show: I'm uncomfortable with the way the release reads at this moment. I feel strongly that it is unnecessary and misleading to both of the press and fans to suggest things as "staging is from another planet" or "never before seen staging." We are not doing the Chinese Olympics. (ABC7)

Ortega said they were exaggerating, and that he thought the press release was "creatively misleading." "The show got so big," Ortega explained, saying he needed an extra week to get it ready. Phillips is quoted in release that "this is a one-off adjustment do purely technical reasons and we don't anticipate any further changes." (ABC7)

Ortega met Dr. Murray at the Carolwood home in April or May. He remembers the doctor going to rehearsals once or twice. MJ went to 2 rehearsals at Staples, June 23rd and 24th. Ortega said Dr. Murray was involved in creating Michael's scheduling for rehearsals. It was either Phillips or Paul Gongaware who told Ortega Dr. Murray would be making MJ's schedule and would help MJ get to rehearsal. Panish: Who was responsible for the content of the show? Ortega: Michael Jackson. "First it was Dr. Murray and then Randy helped," Ortega said about MJ's rehearsal schedule. Dr. Murray would give Ortega the schedule rehearsal. Ortega said it was not unusual, but he never had a doctor give him artist's schedule. Panish: Was there a time you were concerned MJ wasn't showing up at rehearsals? Ortega: Yes (ABC7)

Email on June 23, 2009 from Timm Wooley to Bob Taylor: Changes are structural only: KO has responsibility only for the show content & structure in consultation with MJ. Randy Phillips and Dr. Murray are responsible for MJ's rehearsal and attendance. (ABC7)

Panish asked if Ortega had ever seen a situation where a CEO of a company was responsible for the artist's schedule/attendance. Ortega: No (ABC7)

"I just wanted him to come to rehearsal," Ortega said. "In terms of when he came I was willing to structure everything around that." "At some point, it became my number one concern," Ortega said about MJ showing up at rehearsals. (ABC7)

There were 4 calls between Dr. Murray and Ortega on June 18. One lasted 30 minutes. Ortega said they were already in rehearsals and the only reason KO would call Murray was to inquire about MJ's non-appearance at rehearsals. "My own frustrations" Ortega said explaining Murray was creating the schedule, which wasn't working. "He was my lifeline so to speak". Panish: Was Michael coming every day to rehearsal in June? Ortega: No, Panish: Every scheduled day? Ortega: That I don't know. Panish: Were you ever involved in a show where you called a doctor of an artist when he was not coming to rehearsals? Ortega: No. MJ wasn't showing up at all at rehearsals in June, Ortega testified. "I recall MJ not coming to rehearsals for a period of time in June." Panish: Remember yourself having serious frustration on June 18th? Ortega: Yes"That all we worked, MJ and I, this dream, this goal he and I had, tis desire, was going to fall away," Ortega explained.Ortega said MJ was his directing partner, he needed the artist to get the show on the road. (ABC7)

On Jun 19, there were several calls between Ortega and Dr. Murray. Ortega remembers this date because there was an issue with MJ. Ortega's first phone call was at 11:25 am and MJ was not at rehearsal. Panish: Did you learn they had an intervention? Ortega: I remember there was plan to get schedule in order, it was my feeling we weren't going to make it, there was plan to make it clear. Before June 19, Ortega said MJ hadn't come to rehearsals for a "good week," but it could've been more. They were supposed to leave for London on July 3, so they has 10-12 rehearsals remaining. "On the 19th I had more than a serious concern that the show could go on," Ortega said. Panish: You had serious doubt? Ortega: Yes. They were going to rehearse in London as well. As of June 19th, Ortega hadn't seen MJ for a week or more. On June 19, there was a fitting to take place. Michael showed up but very late, Ortega said. Ortega explained it was hard for him as a director to work like that, so he went to AEG's high ups. Ortega said on June 19th MJ was cold, shivering. "He was slow at growing into the show," Ortega explained. Panish: How about losing weight? Ortega: I had a concern, yes Panish: How about balance issues? Ortega: Yes. Regarding MJ's balance, Ortega said there was a period of time it wasn't as good as it had been. Ortega said MJ complained of back pain. (ABC7)


Panish: Did he seem lost? Ortega: Yes, on the 19th P: Did he seem paranoid? O: Yes
Panish: Did you think he was communicating with clarity? Ortega: No. For part of the evening. He got better (ABC7)


Panish showed an email from Alif Sankey expressing concerns about MJ on June 4. Ortega: The choreographer is not responsible for the artist's physical/emotional, but if they see something they are to report to director. June 13th, Payne wrote an email saying MJ was taking a sick day, per doctor's order. On Jun 14, Ortega wrote to Gongaware that MJ was not allowed to attend the rehearsals the day, asked about MJ's nourishment/therapy. Ortega said the intention was to get assistance in trying to help Michael in every way possible so he could go to rehearsal. (ABC7)

 

[ivy]

Jacksons vs AEG - Day 46 – July 10 2013 – Summary

Katherine and Trent Jackson are in court


Kenny Ortega Testimony


Jackson direct

Ortega said he didn't review anything since yesterday. (ABC7)

Ortega received a daily rate to work in The Rolling Stones tour. The amount was negotiated/set by his agent. (ABC7) Plaintiff’s attorney Brian Panish asked Ortega about how he was paid when he worked with the Rolling Stones. Ortega said he got a per diem. (AP)

AEG is paying for Ortega's attorney in this case and he's getting a witness fee of $35/day (ABC7). Panish then asked whether Ortega was being paid by AEG for his testimony. Ortega said no.(AP)

At the start of his testimony, Kenny Ortega was asked about the phrase “pull the plug” in reference to “This Is It” shows. Ortega said it’s a phrase he uses, but he didn’t recall AEG Live CEO Randy Phillips using it re: “This Is It.” (AP)Panish: Pull the plug, is that a term you use? Ortega: Yes. Panish asked if Ortega suggested to pull the plug on MJ. Ortega responded: "I may, not regarding MJ, but the show." Panish: Did Mr. Phillips talk about pulling the plug? Ortega: I don't know if he used that terminology, but we did discuss stopping the show. The discussion happened when MJ was absent from rehearsals, Ortega said. The director wrote an email suggesting to stop the show. Ortega said he discussed with Phillips if things didn't change they might've to stop show."Without Michael I don't know how we can continue". Panish: Did you use term "pull the plug?" Ortega: I may have. (ABC7) Jackson had missed "a good week" of rehearsals and the only way to reach him was through Dr. Conrad Murray Ortega said. "We discussed that unless things changed," they might have to "pull the plug" on the tour. (CNN) Ortega initially said he thought that he and Phillips discussed stopping the show, but then clarified. Ortega: “I don’t think we discussed stopping the show. I think we discussed that unless things changed, we might have to.” (AP)

Panish asked Ortega whether he was aware of AEG Live execs wanting to “pull the plug” on him. He said he wasn’t. (AP)

About email Ortega sent Gongaware asking if he knew Dr. Murray ordered MJ not to rehearse, Ortega said he wanted to alert AEG about it. Panish: Have you ever been on a show where doctor told artist not to rehearse? Ortega: I think I worked in a show where artists were sick. (ABC7)

After a poor rehearsal on Friday, June 13, and a missed rehearsal the next day, Ortega expressed his concern in an e-mail to AEG Live co-CEO Paul Gongaware: "Were you aware that MJ's Doctor didn't permit him to attend rehearsals yesterday? Are Randy and Frank (DiLeo, another Jackson manager) aware of this? Please have them stay on top of his health situation without invading MJ's privacy. It might be a good idea to talk with his Doctor to make sure everything MJ requires is in place." The AEG Live executives later told him they met with Murray and put him in charge of getting Jackson to rehearsals, Ortega said. The director said he was told that if he needed to know if Jackson was coming to a rehearsal, he should call the doctor. Ortega was given Murray's cell phone number, which he said he programmed into his own phone. After Jackson was a no-show for another week, Ortega had a 30-minute conversation with Murray."I was told he was creating the schedule and the schedule wasn't working," Ortega testified. "He was my lifeline, so to speak." Ortega said he was venting his frustrations with Jackson and was "crying out." (CNN)

Email on June 14, 2009 from Ortega to Gongaware: Paul, MJ did not have a good Friday and he didn't show on Saturday. He has been habitually late (the norm). I realize he's up against a lot. I have ton of love/sympathy 4 what he's been through We must do all that we can as a team to stay on top of his needs everyday. He required more attention and management. As I mentioned I truly believe he needs nourishment guidance & physical therapy (massage) for his fatigued muscles & injuries He is not in great physical shape. I believe he's hurting. He has been slow at grabbing hold of the work. We have twenty days we can't let him slip. I'm doing all I can every day 2 build up his confidence & to create schedule that will help 2 ready him and to arrive us at our goals. Every time he is late or cancels it chisels away that possibility. There can be no more calls 2 Travis asking him to come to the house. MJ needs to be told that it's time to get real. He must take care of himself so that he can meet the schedule or there are going to be consequences. We need a healthy, rested and ready MJ at the Forum and Staples for all the remaining rehearsals as well as the few we have at the O2 in July. Thanks, KO (ABC7)

Kenny Ortega discussed emails he sent on June 14, 2009 regarding Jackson’s missed rehearsals, poor condition. Ortega email snippet: “He is not in great physical shape. I believe he’s hurting. He has been slow at grabbing hold of the work.” This email was sent roughly a month before “This Is It” was scheduled to premiere at the O2 Arena. Ortega said he had serious concerns at this point whether or not the “This Is It” shows would happen. (AP)

Ortega said he just wanted to make sure MJ had all health benefits available to be able to do the show. (ABC7)

Email on Jun 14, 2009 from Gongaware to Ortega: Frank and I have discussed it already and have requested a face-to-face meeting with doctor. We want to remind him that it is AEG, not MJ who is paying his salary. We want him to understand what is expected of him. (ABC7)

As to Gongaware's email, Ortega said he didn't know whether he discussed it with Gongaware. (ABC7)

Panish: Would it be fair to say as of June 14, 2009, you thought the show was in jeopardy? Ortega: Yes
Panish: Would it be fair to say as of June 14, 2009, everyone was under pressure? Ortega: Yes (ABC7)

Panish asked if Payne ever told Ortega MJ looked assisted when coming 2 rehearsal. Ortega said he doesn't remember if he used that word. Ortega said he understands being assisted to mean under the influence of something. (ABC7) Ortega was then asked about Jackson showing up to rehearsal and being under the influence of something. He said he didn’t recall Travis Payne telling him Jackson looked “assisted” but he doesn’t dispute it happened.(AP)

"I don't have any idea in which capacity, but I knew he was, he was introduced to me as his doctor," Ortega said about Dr. Murray. (ABC7)

Ortega said he doesn't recall the conversation with Payne about MJ being treated for sleeping problems. He doesn't dispute that he may have. Ortega: I believe I was under the impression Michael was seeing doctor. I believe when he showed up like that he had been to a doctor. "I just didn't need Mr. Payne to make me aware of it," Ortega said, explaining he could see the problems himself. Panish: You saw, at least 4 times, MJ come to rehearsal in a condition you'd describe as under the influence? Ortega: Yes. Ortega said he's not a specialist in drug addiction. Panish asked if he had discussion with Payne about it. Ortega: I don't recall the conversation, but most likely yes, I'm not disputing his testimony. (ABC7) Ortega said he saw Jackson under the influence of something _ he didn’t know what _ during at least 4 rehearsals. Panish: “It was fairly obvious, wasn’t it?” Ortega: “Yes.” (AP)

Panish: Do you know if at this time AEG had sick cancellation? Ortega: No. Ortega said he had been insured for big events, like the Olympics. He took physical examination for it. (ABC7)

Ortega said Karen Faye, Travis Payne, Alif Sankey, assistants Stacy Walker and James Faris raised concerns about MJ's physical condition. "I don't think everyone spoke about it, but they were aware and concerned," Ortega said. (ABC7) Later, Ortega would identify Payne, Karen Faye, and Alif Sankey as workers who expressed concerns about Jackson being under the influence. The director also said that Stacy Walker, who previously testified, expressed concern. (AP)

Ortega and Faye don't get along on a personal level, Ortega said. "I did think she was looking after Michael's best interests," Ortega said about Faye. She did not keep MJ secluded this time around, though. (ABC7)

Michael Bearden was the musical director in "This Is It" in charge of the music. Ortega said he's top notch, very respected in the business. Panish asked if Bearden was also concerned with MJ's health. "He may have, yes," Ortega responded. Bearden is brilliant, successful musician. (ABC7)

Email On June 16 from Bearden to Ortega: Hey guys! on MJ's lead vocal re-sings. I'm not sure if we're going to get what we need in time. I'd like 2 try 2 get some alternate takes or un-processed leads from the vault if we can. I can go in with M Prince and re-mix the stuff we need on the 22nd (our proposed media day). I we can get everything we need from the vault I can use what we have and take out ad libs and such to try to make it feel new. MJ is not in shape enough yet to sing this stuff live and dance at the same time. He can use the ballads to sing live and get his stamina back up. Once he's healthy enough and has more strength I have full confidence he can sing the majorityof the show live. His voices sounds amazing right now, he just needs to build it back up. (ABC7)

“He wasn't vocal ready yet, not in shape to sing and dance," Ortega said about MJ. Ortega explained MJ was still building back his voice, that's what Bearden was referring, to have power to sing/dance the entire show. This exchange happened about 18 days prior to opening day. (ABC7) Panish then showed Ortega other emails dealing with Jackson’s voice. In one, it was suggested that MJ only sing the ballads during the show. Panish then showed Ortega other emails dealing with Jackson’s voice. In one, it was suggested that MJ only sing the ballads during the show. Bearden in the email wrote that Jackson’s voice was fine, he just wanted strong enough to dance and sing at the same time. (AP)

Response on June 16, 2009 from Ortega I have a 2:30 at MJ's house today with Frank, Randy, Paul and he Doctor. I will add your concerns/requests 2 an ever growing list of items I already plan 2 discuss w/ MJ. The plan is he's joining us tonight for band work. How many individual vocals are we talking about? If he put his mind to it, how long would it take? (ABC7)

"Not necessarily to be done, but things I needed Michael to give his input," Ortega said. (ABC7)

Ortega doesn't remember if he went to MJ's house on June 16. He's not disputing he did, though. "I would call the meeting on the 20th an intervention," Ortega said. "I could've had this meeting, but there were just so much going on, I could've been there on the 16th, I just don't recall," Ortega said. Ortega explained he doesn't remember anyone telling him not to go to the June 16th meeting. (ABC7)

Panish then asked Ortega whether he went to Jackson’s house for a meeting on June 16, 2009. KO said he didn’t remember going to the house. Panish showed Ortega an email indicating he was planning to go to a meeting with Randy Phillips, others. Ortega said he had so much going on at the time, he just doesn’t remember it. “I could have had this meeting,” he said. Panish asked whether things got better or worse after the June 16 meeting at MJ’s house. Ortega said they got worse. (AP)

It was that then that Ortega testified about the night of June 19, 2009 and being “frightened” by Jackson’s condition. (AP) Ortega doesn't recall whether MJ was at the rehearsals on June 16, 17 and 18. He knows MJ was at the rehearsal on June 19. Ortega said MJ arrived at night to rehearse on June 19, probably in the evening around 9 o'clock. "I saw a Michael that frightened me, a Michael that was shivering and cold," Ortega said. Ortega: He, I thought there was something emotionally going, on, deeply emotional, thought something physical going on. He was cold. Panish: Troubling? Ortega: Very troubling As to his physical condition, Ortega said MJ was shivering, just seemed fragile. Panish: Skinny? Ortega: Skinny? No, he wasn't a heavy person to begin with. It wasn't weight I was concerned on, it was his appearance. Panish: Did it appear he had lost weight? Ortega: Yes. "I observed Michael like I had never seen him before," Ortega said. It troubled me deeply, he appeared lost, cold, afraid.". Ortega said MJ was coherent. "I think when he first came in he didn't seem coherent, but when I started talking to him he became better." Ortega: He seemed to warm up and feel a little better, but he wasn't well. Panish: Did you feel something was wrong? Ortega: Yes. Not well enough to rehearse. Ortega: I was in a room, right off the main room. I think MJ was already in the room. Karen called me and asked me to come in to the room (ABC7)

Panish showed picture of MJ's fitting on June 19th and asked if that's how he always looked. Ortega: No. I didn't see him in T-shirt, so I wouldn't know he was that thin. Panish: Is that how he always looked? Ortega: No P: What was different? O: His body, he looked very thin P: A little emaciated? O: Yes. Ortega said MJ was covered when he saw him on June 19th, so he didn't see him like the photo. Panish: Did you ever seen his like that before? Ortega: No (ABC7)

"I remember asking for food, I asked if MJ had eaten" Ortega recalled. "I remember calling the doctor, I was very upset and I was concerned". "I wanted someone who's a professional to be aware that Michael showed up in that condition," Ortega explained. Ortega: I know that I did my best to provide for Michael. I don't recall if the doctor ever answered the phone or I kept leaving voicemails. Ortega: We talked, Karen put a heater on the floor, took off his shoes, I began rubbing his feet, he said it felt very good. Ortega said MJ told him he never had his feet massaged before. "I couldn't believe it!" Ortega said. Ortega said he cut up the salad, Michael ate, they talked and Michael said he didn't want to go home, he wanted to watch the rehearsal. Ortega said Michael asked that Travis Payne be on stage and be him, so he could seat with the director and see it.

Panish: Do you remember crying? Ortega: Yes.
Panish: Were you crying because you were concerned with Michael? Ortega: Yes
P: Overreacting? O: No P: Being a drama queen? O: No P: Serious concern? O: Yes
Panish: And you did everything you could? Ortega: Yes, that I could think about it
Panish: Did you try to tell AEG there was a problem? Ortega: I believe you have records of it (ABC7)

Panish showed email chain "Trouble At The Front". Ortega said he sent emails to AEG only when he thought it was absolutely necessary. Ortega took a deep breath. Panish asked him if he was alright. He answered let’s keep going, please. Email from Leiweke to Phillips asking to set up a meeting. Then Phillips forwarded the email to KO asking him to be present at the meeting. Ortega: I thought Michael had a problem on the 19th. I wasn't thinking about the production on the 19th. I was only thinking about Michael! (ABC7)

Email on 6/19/09 from John Hougdahl to Gongaware and Phillips Subject: Trouble at the front Paul/Randy I'm not being a drama queen here Kenny asked me to notify you both. MJ was sent home without stepping foot on stage. He was a basket case and Kenny was concerned he would embarrass himself on stage, or worse yet - get hurt. The company is rehearsing right now, but the DOUBT is pervasive. Time to circle the wagons. Bugzee (ABC7)

"This isn't my email, I didn't ask him to write this email, I asked him to reach out to Paul and Randy" Ortega said. "These aren't my words". "I made him aware of the situation," Ortega said about Hougdahl. "I don't even know I personally said it to him or sent someone else." (ABC7)

Ortega: I didn't leave MJ's side until he left. I wanted to be with him, I didn't want to leave his side. Ortega said he remembers having thoughts at the Staples Center and typed his email probably while still there. Ortega said he didn't respond to the chain of emails, but was only offering his accounting of the day. (ABC7)

“I thought Michael had a problem on the 19th,” Ortega said. “I wasn’t thinking about the ('This Is It') production on the 19th.” Ortega appeared bothered when Panish asked him about being concerned for the production. “I was only thinking about Michael,” he said. The court took a 10 minute break around this point. When they came back, Ortega read one of his emails sent after the June 19 rehearsal. (AP)

"Trouble At The Front" Email: Ortega wrote: I will do whatever I can to be of help with this situation. My concern is now that we've brought the Doctor in to the fold and have played the tough love, now or never card, is that the Artist may be unable to rise to the occasion due to real emotional stuff. He appeared quite weak and fatigued this evening. He had a terrible case of the chills, was trembling, rambling and obsessing. Everything in me says he should be psychologically evaluated. If we have any chance at all to get him back in the light, it's going to take a strong Therapist to help him through this as well as immediate physical nurturing. I was told by our choreographer that during the artists costume fitting with his designer tonight they noticed he's lost more weight. As far as I can tell, there's no one taking responsibility (caring for) for him on a daily basis. Where was his assistant tonight? Tonight I was feeding him, wrapping him in blankets to warm his chill, massaging his feet to calm him and calling his doctor. There were four security guards outside his door, but no one offering him a cup of hot tea. Finally, it's important for everyone 2 know, I believe that really he wants this. It would shatter him, break his heart if we pulled the plug. He's terribly frightened it's all going to go away. He asked me repeatedly tonight if i was going to leave him. He was practically begging for my confidence. It broke my heart. ( Ortega began to cry while reading this part of the email.) He was like a lost boy. There still may be a chance he can rise to the occasion if we get him the help he needs. (ABC7)

Ortega broke down while reading the email. After reading the line, “It broke my heart. He’s like a lost boy,” he had to stop. “I’m not OK right now,” he told the court. The judge asked if he needed a break. He said he just wanted a second, but judge ordered recess. (AP) "I'm not ok right now," Ortega said. Judge asked if he wanted a break, he asked for a few minutes. Judge gave a 10-minute break. After the break, Ortega apologized to everyone. Testimony resumed. (ABC7) As Ortega read the email out loud, he paused between words, then began to cry. He took off his wire-rimmed glasses and wiped his eyes with a tissue. "I'm not OK right now," he said, and the judge called a 10-minute recess. When Ortega returned to the courtroom, he could be overheard telling Brian Panish, the Jackson family's attorney: "It's devastating." (LATimes)

Panish showed phone records of Ortega where he called Dr. Murray several times on June 19th. Ortega said he doesn't remember speaking with the doctor. He said he believes he did the best he could to reach him, though.(ABC7)

Although Jackson showed up on June 19, he was "cold, shivering" and unable to rehearse, Ortega said. "On the 19th I had more than a serious concern. I didn't think it was going to go on." With just a dozen days left for rehearsals before the touring company moved to London for the opening, Ortega testified, he was worried "that all that we had worked for together, Michael and I -- this dream, this desire -- was going to fall away." He sent a series of e-mails to AEG Live executives warning that Jackson needed "a top psychiatrist to evaluate him ASAP." Ortega and Murray exchanged 11 calls that next day, according to phone records. They discussed "a plan to get the schedule in order, because it was my feeling that we weren't going to make it," Ortega testified.(CNN)

I saw a Michael that frightened me," Ortega testified. He said Jackson, who had come to the Forum, where rehearsals were taking place, for a costume fitting, looked emaciated. "I observed Michael like I had never seen him before, and it troubled me deeply, " Ortega said.Ortega called Murray several times but never spoke to him that night.He said there was no question Jackson needed a doctor. “I wanted someone who was a professional to be aware that Michael had showed up in this condition,” he said. (LAtimes)
After the break, Panish asked Ortega if he was concerned about Conrad Murray. Ortega said yes. Ortega said he wanted Jackson to be evaluated by a professional, someone other than Murray. (AP)

Panish: Did you have a concern about Dr. Murray at this time?
Ortega: I really didn't know what Dr. Murray did, but Michael showing up in this condition, I had a concern.
"I was concerned about Michael being in this state when he had a doctor," Ortega said. (ABC7)

"The doctor in the fold means he was in charge of Michael's schedule and it involved me," Ortega said. "I believe this was something else, it was not the tough love, you have to show up of this is not going to happen," Ortega said. "It was real emotional stuff," Ortega testified. "I just felt he wasn't present, he wasn't there. Ortega: I'm not a doctor, I just felt there was something going on, more than physical. My response was to have a professional evaluate him (ABC7)

Panish: And you had a real concern with Dr. Murray? Ortega: Yes. Panish asked if Ortega thought MJ was not being cared for. "Not at the level I'd expected Michael deserved," he answered. (ABC7)

Panish asked Ortega about a line in his email in which he described feeding Jackson. Ortega said he didn’t literally feed him. (AP) "I was not feeding (MJ) literally, I did not feed Michael," Ortega said. Panish: Were you scared about Michael? Ortega: Absolutely in the beginning, a little less in the end, when he was a little warm, better. Ortega: I tried the doctor, who I thought it would be the most natural, and then reached out to AEG, Michael's partners, for help. (ABC7) Kenny Ortega agreed when plaintiff's attorney Brian Panish asked him whether the email was a “cry for help.” (AP)

The director said he called Murray repeatedly that night, that he was most natural person to reach out to for help. Then he informed AEG. Ortega said he was willing to walk away from the show at this point, leaving it without a director. "I think it would have severely injured the possibility of the show going on," Kenny Ortega said. (AP) Ortega said he could've walked away, and MJ would've been left without a director. "I didn't believe it could go forward at this point, at this night" Ortega said. "I wanted it for him, I know it was what he wanted for himself" (ABC7)

"He seems lost, not like the Michael I'd seen," Ortega said. "I couldn't see his body but his physical presence wasn't what I had seen last". Ortega said he believes his email was a strong suggestion that MJ needed to be seen by a doctor for his psychological condition. (ABC7) "I saw a Michael that frightened me," Ortega said, calling Jackson's appearance "very, very troubling."Jackson's condition prevented the singer from rehearsing that day. Ortega said. (AP) "On the 19th (of June) I had more than a serious concern," Kenny Ortega testified. "I didn't think it was going to go on." (CNN)

Ortega said he didn't see Randy until next day, on the 20th, when he was at the meeting at Carolwood house. Panish: Did you discuss with Randy Phillips, 5 days before MJ's death, about pulling the plug? Ortega: Not that I recall. Panish: How would MJ be if show was canceled? Ortega: I know how deeply it mattered to him to do these shows. "I said I thought it would break his heart," Ortega explained. (ABC7)

Ortega said he doesn't remember an email response from Randy Phillips to his email.(ABC7)

Email from Phillips: Kenny, I will call you when I figure this out. We have a person like that, Brigitte, who's in London advancing his stay. We will bring her back ASAP and Frank, too, however, I'm stymied on who to bring in as a therapistand how they can get through to him in such a short time. (ABC7)

After the lunch break, Panish asked Ortega about emails he exchanged with Randy Phillips on June 20, 2009. Phillips, after reading Ortega’s email from earlier that day, wrote back that he would call “when I figure this out.” Phillips added that despite Ortega’s suggestion that Jackson needed a therapist, Phillips said he was “stymied” about who to bring in. Phillips also questioned how effective a therapist would be. Panish: “Were you stymied about getting a therapist involved?” Ortega said no. (AP)

Panish: You were not concerned with the business side, but with Michael Jackson? Ortega: Yes. Ortega: I didn't want to break Michael's heart, I was torn. My instinct was to stop the show, but I didn't want to break Michael's heart. (ABC7) Ortega said he was torn about whether “This Is It” should continue. “My instinct was we should stop,” he said. But Ortega knew MJ wanted to keep going (AP)

Ortega responded Phillips: Randy, I'm at home awaiting your call or instructions. I honestly don't think he is ready for this based on his continued physical weakening and deepening emotional state. It is reminiscent of what Karen, Bush, Travis and I remembered just before he fainted causing the HBO Concerts to be canceled. There are strong signs of paranoia, anxiety and obsessive-like behavior. I think the best thing we can do it is get a top Psychiatrist on to evaluate him ASAP. It's like there are two people there. On (deep inside) trying to hold on to what he was and still can be and not wanting us to quit on him, the other in this weakened and troubled state. (ABC7)

He said after sending a reply to Phillips, he got a call telling him about a meeting at Jackson’s mansion later that day. That afternoon, he said he received an email from Phillips urging him and everyone not to “become amateur psychiatrists or physicians.” (AP)

Ortega: He was afraid for one thing I was going to leave him. Anxiety: he was anxious he didn't want me to leave or quit. Ortega: Obsessive behavior: he was repeating for me not to quit or eave him. "There was no question in my mind that Michael wanted to do the shows," Ortega said. Ortega: 'There's nothing to be afraid of, we are going to do this, This Is It.' That's the Michael I had allegiance to. (ABC7)

Phillips responded to Ortega that he not be an amateur psychiatrist. Ortega said that was not his intention. Ortega said he does not know whether Dr. Murray was ever successful, unbiased and ethical. The director did not check the doctor out himself. Ortega didn't think Dr. Murray was giving good care to MJ. (ABC7) The email included Phillips’ statement that AEG Live had checked out Conrad Murray and that he was “unbiased and ethical.” Ortega had only had one previous conversation with Murray. He said he didn’t know if he was successful, ethical or had been checked out. Phillips also said they needed to “surround Mike with love and support.” Ortega said that’s what he’d been trying to do. (AP)

Panish asked Ortega whether he was the “kind of guy that yells at people and throws tantrums, or tries to work with them?” Ortega: “Both.” Kenny Ortega’s response brought some laughter to the courtroom, including from the jury. (AP)

Panish: Do you think you were trying to sound an alarm? Ortega: Yes P: Raise a red flag? O: Yes
Panish: Were you trying to concern Mr. Phillips about this situation? Ortega: Yes P: Why? O: Because I was concerned. (ABC7)

"I saw something that troubled me deeply and I felt it needed attention," Ortega said. Ortega: I had seen something deeply troubling and I wanted to be taken seriously. "I felt Michael was in trouble and needed help," Ortega said. Panish: If Phillips were more concerned about getting the show on the road rather than MJ, would that worry you? Ortega: Yes, because they were talking about a person's health, I was more concerned about Michael's health than anything else at that time. Phillips testified he thought Ortega was entrenched in the situation and not being open minded. Ortega disagreed with Phillips' perception. "I got the impression that Randy would be looking over and investigate himself," Ortega explained. Panish: Did Randy Phillips ever tell you what the problem with MJ was? Ortega: No. Dr. Murray, in some capacity, tried to tell Ortega what was happening. But the director never got an answer to what was wrong with MJ. Ortega: I wanted it to be taken care of, whatever it was, I wanted it looked into and taken care of.(ABC7)

The Phillips response is one of several emails Ortega says he’s seen, but can’t remember receiving or reading it in June 2009. Panish asked Ortega whether he knew that Phillips had written others say that the director was starting to concern him. Ortega said no. (AP)

Ortega said he was trying to concern Phillips because he was alarmed by what he’d seen on night of June 19th. Ortega: “I saw something that troubled me deeply and I thought it needed attention.” Ortega said he trusted Phillips and he got the impression that the executive was going to try to get to the bottom of Jackson’s problems. Panish: “Given what ultimately happened to Michael, do you think you were overreacting?” Ortega replied, “No.” Ortega said he’d never seen Jackson in as poor condition as he was on the night of June 19, 2009. He said this left him stressed. (AP)

Panish: In all the time you knew MJ, did you ever see him in the condition he was on June 19th? Ortega: No
"I just wanted Michael to be ok," Phillips said. He trusted both Phillips and Gongaware.
Panish: Do you know how you felt? Ortega: I was stressed P: Distraught? O: Yes (ABC7)

Gongaware told Ortega about the meeting on the 20th. Neither Phillips nor Dr. Murray ever told Ortega they spoke on the phone for 20 mins. Meeting on the 20th was between Michael, Dr. Murray, Randy Phillips and myself. It happened at the parlor in the house. Ortega said when he realized the meeting was about him, he stood up to express his feelings. Ortega did not stay very long at that meeting. He estimates 10-15 minutes, definitely under a half an hour. Ortega left by himself. The others stayed: Jackson, Dr. Murray and Phillips. Ortega said Dr. Murray began the meeting. He said he had a feeling the meeting would be about the night before and the depth of his concerns. Ortega described the meeting as "accusatory." Panish: Who was the one being accused? Ortega: Me P: Who was accusing you? O: Dr. Murray. Dr. Murray was upset with Ortega, the director said. Panish: Did Phillips ever tell you that he had a phone conversation, for 20 minutes, on June 20th with Dr Murray? Ortega: Yes, through email. Ortega said all he's familiar with is that Phillips had a lengthy conversation with Dr. Murray at some point. (ABC7)

Panish: Did you think MJ was in decline? Ortega: Yes
Panish; Was he mentally able and stable? Ortega: I certainly didn't think on June 19th. (ABC7)

Ortega said Dr. Murray was angry at him at the meeting, "I was shocked," Ortega explained. Ortega: I was shocked because what he was saying it wasn't at all reflecting of what happened. Ortega said he excused himself. Dr. Murray said MJ was fine and could handle all responsibilities for the show. "I was flabbergasted! Because I didn't believe that was possible," Ortega testified, saying he felt hurt, insulted. Panish asked if he was ever treated like that in his long career. "Oh sure!" Ortega responded. Ortega: Have I ever being talked down, hurt, insulted? Yes, so many times I can't tell you! (ABC7)

Panish: Did Michael stick up for you? Ortega: Yes. Ortega: He (Dr. Murray) was upset with me, and he said I had no right to not let MJ rehearse. Ortega: Dr. Murray said MJ was physically and emotionally capable to handle all the responsibilities of the performance. Ortega said Dr. Murray told him to stick with his job and to leave the doctor job to him. Ortega testified he asked Michael to explain to Dr. Murray that MJ asked to stay, but the evening was different. And MJ did just that. MJ stood up, gave Ortega a hug before he left. "The doctor suggested that MJ had told him one thing and now was saying another" Ortega said. "Michael said no, no, no, they were in disagreement too," Ortega said. The director told MJ he only cared about MJ. Ortega said MJ responded 'I know, I know, I love you, I will take the reins.' (ABC7)

He then recounted the June 20 meeting at Michael Jackson’s mansion. He said he stood for most of the meeting. Panish asked Ortega to use a word to describe the meeting. He asked for a moment, then replied, “Accusatory.” Ortega said Murray was upset with him, told him not to be an amateur physician or psychiatrist. Ortega said he was shocked at the reaction. He said Murray told him that Jackson was fine and could handle the show. “I was flabbergasted,” Ortega said. He said he was insulted. Panish: “Have you ever been treated like that.” Ortega replied, “Oh sure.” Jury laughed at the response. Ortega referenced his long showbiz career and said he’d been in some difficult meetings, but had never been talked to that way by a doctor. He said Jackson came to his defense, but only after he prompted him. He said it seemed like Jackson told Murray different versions. That led to Murray and Jackson getting in a disagreement. It wasn’t with the same intensity, though, Ortega said. Ortega said Jackson then told him not to be afraid and he would “’take the reins. You’ll see,’” he recalled Jackson telling him. (AP)

Panish: And 5 days later Michael was dead Ortega: Yes (ABC7)

When Michael Jackson showed up at rehearsal on June 23, Ortega said: "It was miraculous!" Ortega: Whatever the flu, whatever it was, it was just not present. I didn't ask questions, I was just overjoyed. Ortega said everyone noticed the drastic change. "I didn't know anything about any medication." "He had a metamorphosis," Ortega said, in awe. "Pretty extraordinary." "I doubted myself, I remember going did I see something?" Ortega said. Michael just didn't seem the Michael he saw on June 19th. (ABC7)

The production was off for a few days, then Jackson returned to rehearsals on June 23rd. It was miraculous,” Ortega said. “All of a sudden, it was a miraculous recovery,” Ortega said. “Whatever the flu or whatever it was, wasn’t there.” Ortega of Jackson on June 23, 2009: “For some reason, all of a sudden, he looked like he had risen from the dead. He had a metamorphosis.” Ortega said Jackson’s transformation led him to doubt himself. He said he was like someone who had a short illness. It seemed like Jackson had gotten some “real sleep,” Ortega said of Jackson. (AP)

Panish: Do you know if Dr. Murray had stopped giving MJ Propofol? Ortega: I had no idea (ABC7) Panish asked whether Ortega knew if Jackson’s recovery was because Murray stopped giving him medications. Ortega said he didn’t know.(AP)

Earth song was the last song Michael rehearse. Panish asked if MJ did it well. Ortega smiled and answered yes. Ortega takes very deep breath. (ABC7) Panish then asked Ortega about the last song Jackson performed. It was “Earth Song” on the night of June 24, 2009. Ortega began to get emotional again. He was taking deep breaths at points. He recounted hearing that Jackson had died from Gongaware. (AP)

Panish played a clip of “Earth Song” in which Jackson is wearing a long jacket. The lawyer asked Ortega if Staples Center was cold. “Those places are like refrigerators,” Ortega replied. He said Jackson had a blanket wrapped around him, but not like 5 days earlier. (AP)

Panish: What happened the next day? Ortega: Michael died (Ortega's voice cracked a little). "I was standing on the stage, waiting for Michael," Ortega recalled. The director said Staples Center was like refrigerators, so cold. Panish show video of Earth song. This is the last song he rehearsed, Ortega said. He was bundled up in several layers of clothing. Ortega's favorite songs are: 1- Man in the Mirror 2- Billie Jean 3- 100 other songs all tied in the 3rd place. (ABC7)

Ortega said on June 25th, he was under the impression that Randy Phillips was on his way to Jackson’s home to pick him up for rehearsals. (AP) Phillips was to pick MJ up at the Carolwood house to bring MJ to rehearsal. Obviously, he never showed up, Panish noted. Gongaware called Ortega from the hospital. "Our boy is gone," Ortega said Gongaware told him. But Ortega said he didn't believe him. "I said I'm not trusting this is Paul Gongaware." Ortega said Gongaware told him to sit down. Ortega asked Gongaware to tell him something only the 2 would know 2 prove it was Gongaware. "You have to sit down and get a hold of yourself," Gongaware told Ortega on the phone. "Listen to me, Michael's gone." "I wanted to believe it was some weirdo calling me, it was a very awkward phone call and I didn't want to believe him," Ortega testified. (ABC7) Ortega then recounted the call from Gongaware about Jackson’s death. Gongaware said, “’Our boy is gone,” the director said. He said he thought it was a prank call and didn’t believe it. Gongaware somehow convinced him he was telling the truth. (AP)

Phillips never said anything at the meeting on the 20th, was more like a bystander, Ortega said. (ABC7)

Ortega said they never did a full run-through of the show.(ABC7)

Ortega believes AEG paid him everything they owed him for the work done. Sony paid him for the musical documentary. Ortega said he believes Sony kept all the film in a vault so the video would not get leaked. (ABC7)

Ortega said MJ's intention was 2 take the show out 2 the world one more time and end it in the US. Ortega would get bonuses if that happened. Judge asked why he'd get bonus if his job was done. Ortega said it's like getting royalties, since he was one of the creators of the show. Ortega said MJ had intention to do movies inspired in his songs "Thriller" and "Smooth Criminal." Panish: How did you react? Ortega: Yes, please! (ABC7)

Panish asked what was MJ's background. Ortega: He invented music video, the list goes on and on. He raised the bar in every are he worked in.Ortega said MJ was fantastic songwriter, singer, musician, dancer and also a filmmaker. "We worked together really, really well" Ortega said. Ortega recalled they had a chance to work together on "This Is It," they made 4 short films. Panish showed picture of MJ looking at the viewfinder of the camera used to film movies, Ortega next to him. "Anything Michael wanted to do with me I was interested in," Ortega said. (ABC7)

Panish asked Ortega several questions about the making of “This Is It” before taking the afternoon break. When they returned, Panish asked about Jackson’s passion for filmmaking. He struggled to remember the name of one Jackson work. Panish couldn’t remember it either, so the lawyer turned and bent down into the audience and asked Katherine Jackson. “Captain Eo,” she said Panish then showed several photos of Jackson and Ortega together. One was a side-shot of them walking, and one of MJ’s children was there. Ortega, who’s phone calls had been discussed earlier, quipped, “You don’t show my telephone number, but you show my profile.” Jury laughed. Panish apologized, and then they tried to figure out whether it was Prince or Paris in the photo because he/she was wearing a mask. Ortega said he thought the masked child was Prince, but wasn’t sure. Panish then asked about Jackson’s children. (AP)

Photo of MJ, Ortega and young Prince: "Attractive," Ortega joked. "You didn't show my phone number, but showed my profile! Ortega: Along w/ the way he talked about his mother, the kids were the single greatest blessing, brought the greatest happiness to his world. Ortega said MJ gave them Christmas every day of the year. "There was just evidence of fun." Ortega: He was just there for them, he was concerned about them, he was parental. Regarding the children, Ortega said: "They loved their father, it was very clear, very evident, it was obvious." "He loved her dearly," Ortega said about MJ and Katherine Jackson. "He cared deeply about her." (ABC7) The director recounted going to Jackson’s mansion in April and finding Christmas decorations everywhere. “He gave them Christmas every day of the year,” Ortega said. There were also paper airplanes thrown everywhere, he recalled. Panish asked about Jackson’s love for his mother, which Ortega said was “very clear, very obvious.” He then ended his questioning. (AP)

Panish said he has no further questions at this time.


AEG cross

AEG's attorney, Marvin Putnam, did cross examination.(ABC7) He told jury that Ortega would be leaving for a few weeks, so he had to hurry. (AP)

Ortega said AEG is paying his legal fees because it is their contractual obligation to do so. It's written in his contract. (ABC7) Putnam asked about AEG paying Ortega’s legal fees. Ortega said it was because they were contractually obligated to. Ortega: “They probably wouldn’t want to pay my legal fees,” he said. Ortega said the payments didn’t sway his testimony. (AP)

Putnam referred back to June 19th. Ortega reiterated that he did everything he could that night. Ortega said he had been worried about MJ's mental state before during the HBO Concerts in 1995. "I thought he was anxious," he said. No one from AEG was present during the 95 incident. Ortega said it was different from the 19th, though. In 95, he was anxious, unhappy. Ortega explained the 1995 one was the only experience he had with MJ that was similar. Ortega had never seen MJ physically weak like he saw him on the 19th. (ABC7)

Putnam asked whether the night of June 19, 2009 was the first time Ortega was worried about Jackson’s psychological state. He said no. Ortega said the other time was in 1995 during preparations for an HBO special. It wasn’t as bad then, he said. The director said Jackson seemed anxious about that show and changed that were being make creatively. Putnam asked whether Phillips or Gongaware were involved then. Ortega said no. (And AEG Live wasn’t in existence.) (AP)

MJ got better as the night went on on June 19th. "He was just more articulated, in the room, warm, engaged and calmed," Ortega said. (ABC7)

Ortega said the 1st day he met Murray, MJ introduced him as "my doctor." Putnam asked if MJ said Murray was the tour doctor. Ortega said no (ABC7) Putnam asked about when Ortega first met Murray. He said it was in March or April, and Murray was introduced as MJ’s personal doctor. Ortega said he only saw Murray three or four times before the meeting on June 20, 2009.(AP)

Putnam asked about Ortega’s lack of recollection about certain emails. The director said he didn’t read every email at the time. Putnam: “The fact that you don’t remember a specific email doesn’t mean you were being evasive?” Ortega replied no. (AP) Putnam: Are you trying to be evasive? Ortega: No, I'm trying to do my best (ABC7)

The lawyer went over the “trouble at the Front” email from production manager John “Bugzhee” Hougdahl. Then Putnam asked about Ortega’s impressions of Phillips. “I thought he was a professional,” Ortega said. Putnam showed Ortega the span of time between Bugzee’s email reporting problems to Phillips and some of the exec’s responses, abt 15 hours. Putnam asked Ortega if it was understandable that Phillips may have been confused by the conflicting info he was receiving. Yes, he replied. Putnam asked Ortega about how he thought Phillips and Gongaware viewed Jackson. “I felt they loved him,” he said. Ortega said there wasn’t any reason for him to think that Phillips and Gongaware didn’t still love Jackson. He said he believed the execs cared for Jackson “because of the way they supported him throughout the entire venture.” (AP)

Putnam showed Ortega's phone records on June 19th. There are 2 calls from Ortega to Dr. Murray and 1 from Murray to Ortega, all very short. After the calls to Dr. Murray, Ortega said Michael was eating, they had late conversation, he was rubbing his feet. Ortega: Michael wanting to stay and watch, we went on stage, Travis stood in for MJ, we did pyrotechnics if I'm not mistaken, then MJ left. Ortega didn't contact AEG himself, but asked someone to do it on his behalf. Putnam asked why he wanted to alert AEG about MJ. "Because we were all on the same team," Ortega responded. "I thought we needed to help Michael." Putnam asked if Ortega understands why Phillips was having difficulty figuring out what was going on. In one hand, Ortega was saying there was a problem. On the other hand, Dr. Murray said everything was ok. Ortega answered yes. Putnam asked what Ortega thought Phillips and Gongaware felt about MJ: "I felt they loved him," Ortega responded. Putnam: Any reason to believe they didn't? Ortega: No Putnam: Any reason to believe they don't? Ortega: No. Putnam: Why? "Because of the way that they supported him throughout the entire venture," Ortega said. (ABC7)

Putnam said he's looking fwd to seeing Ortega again in a few weeks. The director has business engagement overseas, won't be back for weeks. (ABC7) Kenny Ortega has to travel for work, so he won't resume testifying until August 1st. Putnam told Ortega, “I look forward to seeing you in a couple weeks, sir.” (AP)

 

[ivy]

Jacksons vs AEG - Day 47 – July 11 2013 – Summary

Katherine Jackson is in court.

The judge reversed her earlier decision not allowing Jacksons to show the handwritten notes based on hearsay. Jacksons' attorney Debra Chang successfully argued that the notes would be admissible under state and federal evidence code 1250. Chang said there's an exception if it reflects a feeling, emotional or physical reaction. Judge agreed. One note reads: Tohme away from my $ now No contact Where's my house (underlined twice). (ABC7)


Taj Jackson Testimony

Jackson direct

Deborah Chang, attorney for the Jacksons, doing direct examination.

Plaintiff’s attorney Deborah Chang did the questioning and asked for a refresher on his role in the family. Taj is Tito Jackson’s oldest son and Michael Jackson’s nephew. He described Michael Jackson as a “father figure” to him, his brothers. (AP)

Taj: Some people would argue we were his (MJ) children before he had his children. "He was definitely our mentor, everything we did in life we kind of geared to what he was doing," Taj explained. (ABC7)

Taj said he has several handwritten notes from MJ that he saved as keepsake. Note MJ wrote: Taj, I love you all and am proud of you. PS. please rehearse. Taj said it is written in a Neverland stationary, has the logo at the bottom. "He wrote various notes to me like this," Taj said. "That was probably from my mom telling him we were not rehearsing that much." Taj was the piano player. MJ bought him his first instruments. (ABC7)

Chang showed a picture of MJ getting his Hollywood Walk of Fame star. Taj and TJ were present. (ABC7)

Taj gave lots of recollections about his uncle and how he mentored him. “He was a perfectionist when it came to his craft, whatever it was.” He recounted how Jackson sang with 3T on the “I Need You.” He said his uncle came into 3T’s studio to record vocals after his own session. Taj said Michael Jackson’s voice was spent from recording a rock song that day, but he performed his part of the song in one take. He also recounted his uncle working with his nephews to teach them about what makes great music. Jackson played the song “She Drives Me Crazy” by the Fine Young Cannibals for Taj, his brothers, so they could learn to listen to music. Taj also mentioned that his uncle kept up with new artists and liked finding new collaborators. He cited MJ’s song with Akon. (AP)

Taj said MJ would ask him to watch his kids when he needed. He was also in charge of MJ's storage. "It would be foolish not to ask his advise," Taj said, explaining they could, and would, ask anything they wanted. "He picked out a lot of our songs, some we didn't like that much and he told us why they were important," Taj testified. Taj: He was a perfectionist when it came to his craft. He would study, study, study, and tell us to study the greatest, top 10 singers. "The demo sounded a little old fashioned, we couldn't hear what he was hearing," Taj said about "I Need You" song. Taj said they were recording down the street from MJ's recording studio. His uncle lent his voice to the end of the song. Taj: What's most amazing, it was all in one take, he didn't try again, all you hear was all in one take. The song "I Need You" was a success for them. Chang played a snippet of the music video. MJ was not part of it, just his voice. "We were always trying to do what our uncle was doing," Taj said, mentioning the choir in the song. Taj said MJ would tell him 'you have to carry on the legacy, carry on the torch when I retire.' Michael taught Taj and his siblings to listen to the same music several times and hear different instruments each time. "I don't want to give out too many secrets," Taj said, laughing. Taj: For him it was about studying, that's what we learned as well. I started at 12 years old, but didn't start 3T until I was about 19. Taj said he and MJ share their mutual love for music and movies. They would watch it in different ways, once without sound, then with sound. "It was kind of intimidating to me," Taj said, since he didn't know much about movie and said he needed to learn a lot to become a filmmaker. Taj said the robot transformer in the "Moonwalker" film was in their honor, because they loved the transformers. "He was constantly studying and reading about directing, he knew it back and forth and would test us," Taj said. MJ hired a USC professor to teach him movie directing. Taj said the children also learned from the professor. Taj said MJ loved King Tut, he loved Egypt, egyptian culture. MJ wanted him to study 3D, Taj said, since he loved the technology and wanted to do things with it. He wanted Taj to master it. Captain EO was directed by Francis Ford Coppola and is playing at Disneyland. It's a 3D science fiction film with MJ's music. (ABC7)

After discussing films, Chang asked Taj about his uncle’s interest in films. Taj recounted being on the set of “Captain Eo.” Taj said he wished he had paid more attention, since Francis Ford Coppola and George Lucas were involved. Taj said a scene in Jackson’s “Moonwalker” was inspired by his love of the “Transformers” cartoon. He said Michael Jackson would study film, and even was taking a class from a USC film school teacher. Taj said his uncle was interested in several films, including one based on King Tut, another called “Chicago 7” and an updated “Thriller”. He said Jackson told him to study 3D filmmaking. Michael Jackson “loved the technology” and wanted to do “groundbreaking” work with it. (AP)

Taj said he would stay with his uncle weeks at times. He said he lived at Neverland for about a year, majority of times with his uncle. Taj said he witnessed MJ writing notes to himself. He said he learned it from his uncle and keeps notes himself nowadays. "He liked to conduct meetings usually over the phone," Taj said. MJ would keep the phone on speaker so Taj would learn the business dealings.Taj estimated over 100 meetings over the phone, probably over 20 in person. Michael believed in "What you conceive, you believe, you achieve," Taj testified. Taj said MJ would write down his ideas and what he wanted to achieve. He would see his uncle write on anything he could write. Chang showed picture of a mirror with several notes hang on it. "Michael was very sentimental," Taj said. Taj said MJ kept several items as mementos. Taj ran through a window at Neverland when he was 3 and MJ kept the blanket he was wrapped in. (ABC7)

After discussing films, Chang asked Taj about his uncle’s custom of writing notes. He said his uncle had a system of taking notes. Taj said some of the notes and writings Michael Jackson kept were sentimental. This included keeping his sister Janet’s report card. They showed some of Jackson’s inspirational notes, which included one that read, “Love No Violence Ever.” He said he saw hundreds of these notes, both when he lived at Neverland Ranch for a year and after his uncle’s death at his mansion. There were several notes that Taj authenticated were written by his uncle, but they weren’t shown to the jury. AEG Live wants to argue against allowing the notes to be shown to the jury. Jackson’s attorneys want them shown. The notes will be used by an expert for the plaintiffs who will estimate the damages if AEG Live is found liable in the case. (AP)

Taj explained the system MJ had in his life. Types of Documents 1- Inspirational ("Law of Attraction") 2- Loving Keepsakes (notes) 3- "To Do" Topics to Cover During Meetings to Have Others Do. Taj said after MJ died he went to Carolwood house to collect some of MJ's belongings. He said he wanted to keep them for his cousins. Taj said when his mother died, he lost a lot of things either in storage or they were auctioned off and it was very painful for them. Taj retrieved a box of documents from MJ's storage. The attorneys stipulated some of the notes were MJ's handwriting. (ABC7)

Taj said he's familiar with Paris' handwriting, has seen her doing homework. Note from Paris to MJ: Dear Daddy, I love you so much & I'm so happy I got a goodnight hug. Sleep well, I love you & good night. I'll see you tomorrow! XOX, goodnight and lots of love. Paris Jackson. (ABC7)

Note Michael wrote to himself: Words of Blanket my son 6 years young "What's your favorite letter Daddy? Mine is "G" for God and "D" for Daddy" Age 6. Blanket. (ABC7)

AEG Cross

AEG attorney, Kathryn Cahan, is doing cross examination.

Taj said he was the one family member who spent the most time with MJ (out of his cousins and extended family.) Taj visited MJ in every tour he did: Triumph, Victory, Bad, Dangerous and HIStory. He stayed at the hotels with MJ's, went to his room. (ABC7)

She asked Taj about all the time he spent around Jackson. She asked Taj about staying with his uncle on tours. Cahan asked if he ever saw drugs in his uncle's hotel rooms. Taj said no and he never saw MJ use drugs, or under the influence of any meds. (AP)

Cahan: Did you ever see any signs of MJ using drugs? Taj: No (ABC7)

Cahan then asked how often Taj saw his uncle in late 2008-2009. Taj said he saw him once at Bel-Air hotel, and again at an anniversary party. Taj also said he talked to his uncle when he was trying to stop an auction of his possessions. (AP)

In 2008, MJ was living in Las Vegas. Taj saw him regularly during that time. "He was definitely happy and healthy, yes," Taj testified. Taj said that after living in Neverland, MJ went overseas and then to Las Vegas. Taj saw MJ maybe twice, when he was at the Bel Air Hotel. (ABC7)

Taj said he never saw MJ use drugs. "I didn't even know he had moved," Taj said about MJ moving in to Carolwood house in 2008. The last time Taj saw MJ alive was in May of 2009 during his grandparent's 60th anniversary party. He never went to the Carolwood house. Taj said that when they learned MJ was going on tour, they stayed away and gave him space. They knew they could be a distraction for MJ. (ABC7)

"I know MJ was on the phone once to stop an auction," Taj said. Call wasn't to Taj though, he doesn't recall talking to MJ on the phone. Taj heard MJ was recording an album for the news or family members. The album started in 2008, Taj said. "He was constantly recording and writing," Taj said. "He juggled a lot of things." (ABC7) Cahan asked how Taj knew MJ was recording new music. He said he thought he heard about it on the news or from relatives. Taj added that Jackson was always working on new music. “I don’t think he would have stopped recording.” (AP)

Cahan asked several questions about storage lockers that Michael Jackson wanted his nephew Taj to be responsible for. Taj said his uncle wanted him to be responsible for the storage lockers and wanted to transfer them into his name. He said his family lost many of his mother’s possessions after she was killed due to a lien, and his uncle didn’t want the same to happen. One of the facilities, the largest, housed items from Neverland Ranch. Two smaller ones had personal keepsakes, Taj said. Asked why Jackson would want his possessions transferred over, Taj said there were “very few people my uncle trusted.” “He had been betrayed his whole life. He knew he could trust me,” Taj Jackson said of his uncle Michael. He said reluctantly agreed to let his uncle pay him to take care of the storage units. (AP)

Taj said MJ wanted to put the storage facilities in Taj's name. Taj: There were very few people my uncle trusted. Taj: He had been betrayed his whole life. He knew he could trust me and if something happened to him I would do the right thing. Taj said his mom did the same thing, put her valuables in a safe. However, his mom's possession in the storage locker were auctioned off. Taj: A company sued our family for not performing at a certain event and they put a lien on the storage. Taj: The storage unit got tied up and unfortunately we became the victims of it. Taj said MJ had sentimental things in the storage that he wanted to keep for his children. Taj said the storage was full with stuff from Neverland. It had furniture, arts, arcade games. MJ had 2 storage lockers. One in Vegas is half of the size of the courtroom (30x37 feet) and the one in Buellton was at least 4 times bigger. Cahan asked if Taj was being paid to take care of MJ's storage. He said at first he didn't want to get paid, but MJ insisted. (ABC7)

"Everyone else is making money off of me, I want to take care of my family," Taj said MJ told him. (ABC7)

Taj said he doesn't think MJ wanted to live at Neverland again. "It felt violated in a way, the purity of it. It didn't feel the same." (ABC7)

Taj doesn't know when he went to Carolwood house. Rebbie and her daughter, Janet, Katherine, possibly Trent and 1 of his brothers were there. Taj doesn't remember seeing La Toya that day. "It's a time I'd rather forget," Taj said. Taj testified the house seemed normal, not messy. Taj went to MJ's bedroom on the second floor. Cahan asked if MJ was messy. Taj said he wasn't trying to defend his uncle, but understood him. "When you travel a lot, living out of luggages, it's messy," Taj testified. "It looks like my place now," Taj said, laughing. Taj doesn't remember who handled him the box. It was a cardboard storage box. Taj: The idea of going there was to preserve the stuff. It's something someone can sell on eBay for hundreds of thousands of dollars. He said it could be seen it was documents, that he threw in some stuff as well, but 95% of the stuff was already in the box. Taj said he only stayed in his uncle's master bedroom, closet and bathroom. "The box was given to me in the master bedroom, I just assumed the documents were from that area," Taj said. "It was traumatic enough to be in that room so I just wanted to get out of there quickly," Taj recalled. (ABC7)

Cahan then asked about Taj going to his uncle’s mansion after he died. He received a box of documents while there. Taj said he also picked up some of his uncle’s motivational notes. He said he didn’t remember who handed him the box. There was a lot of discussion about the box, and then Cahan moved on to questions about two computers that Taj received at a later time. (AP)

Taj took the box to his house. He said he skimmed through some of the documents. This was in the Summer of 2009. Taj turned over the box of documents to Sandra Ribera, one of the Jacksons attorney early this year. The lawsuit was filed in 2010, Cahan said. Taj: "I don't even know they remembered I had the box." "I protected that box with my life," Taj said. He kept it hidden in his closet of his house. He turned over the entire box to his lawyer. (ABC7)

(Attorneys in the hallway said judge asked for it because she wanted to know why they were spending so much time on the computer issue. Judge said the computer stuff had already been litigated during pretrial. ABC7)

The Mac computers were given to Taj by LaToya Jackson’s business partner at the family’s Encino home, he said. Taj said one contained music and was turned over to Michael Jackson’s estate. The other one was used by security at MJ’s mansion. The second computer was password protected and was apparently used by MJ’s assistant, Michael Amir Williams. Taj said he asked Williams for the password and got one, but it didn’t work. He said the estate wasn’t interested in the computer. Taj said he turned over the computer because Jackson’s estate was looking for hard drives with Michael Jackson music. Taj wasn’t sure of the dates when he received the computers, or when he turned the machine over to the estate. They went into a sidebar that the judge requested. Cahan asked a couple more questions about the security computer, but moved on. (AP)

Taj said he was given two computers from the Carolwood house. One was a computer with music, one was a computer used by the security team, Taj said. Jeffrey Phillips, business partner of my aunt La Toya, gave him the computers, Taj said. He was at the Hayvenhurst house. "He handed them to me," Taj said. They were Mac Towers. Taj is not sure whether he got the screen as well or not. Taj: It was known Estate was looking for music for MJ's new album. I'm assuming Jeffrey knew I was helping Estate out in that aspect of it. Taj is still working with MJ's Estate. Taj: I turned 1 of them on, it had music files. Turned the other one on and had log in request, with Mr. Amir's name, asking for a password. Taj could not access it, since he didn't have the password. "The Estate was looking for 4 hard drives with music in it," Taj said. He thought that's what was being given to him. The music computer was given to the executors of Michael's estate, Taj said. Taj said he called Michael Amir Williams but the password he gave him didn't work. Michael Amir said there was no music in that computer. The Estate, thus, was not interested in the security computer. Taj said he left the security computer at Hayvenhurst house. He hasn't seen the computer since. (ABC7)

Cahan asked Taj about his uncle’s movie aspirations. Taj said the last time he saw his uncle, MJ told him, “After this, we’re doing films.” Jackson’s statement was made in May 2009 at a 60th anniversary party for Joe and Katherine Jackson, Taj said. Cahan asked Taj whether his uncle ever mentioned he wanted to partner with Kenny Ortega on films. Taj responded that wasn’t surprising, his uncle wanted to partner with Peter Jackson and other filmmakers. (AP)

After "TII" tour ended, MJ and Taj would make movies. "I think when TII ended, he would've shifted his focus to films primarily," Taj said. MJ's son, Prince, was going to make movies with them too. "I'm sure more powerful people would be involved too, not just us," Taj said. "His last words to me: After this, we're doing films," Taj recalled. Cahan asked if MJ ever told him he wanted to partner with Kenny Ortega, not him, to make "Thriller" 3D movie. Taj: I'm sure he would partner with, he wanted to partner with Peter Jackson at one point. I wasn't exclusive to him. (ABC7)

Cahan asked a few questions about Taj’s music career, then moved on to questions about Michael Jackson’s kids. Cahan asked about Taj’s relationship with Prince, Paris and Blanket. He said he has been there for him since their father died. (AP) The last 3T album was in 2003. "We dropped everything after Michael passed to be with his kids," Taj explained. "Code Z was kind of my homage to my uncle," Taj said. "We did kind of zombie tribute to him." It was a fake trailer, not made into movie yet. (ABC7)

Taj said he was planning to go to London to see his uncle Michael performing. (ABC7)

MJ had his own record label, MJJ. Taj said MJ was concerned in putting 3T under his label in case something went wrong they would blame him. (ABC7)

Taj has spent a lot of time with MJ's children after his passing. "We've been a unit," Taj said. Cahan: Has Debbie Rowe gotten back involved with the children? Taj: Yes. "She started a relationship with Paris, that's as far as I know," Taj said. Rowe is Prince and Paris' biological mother. (ABC7) The attorney then asked about Debbie Rowe and whether she had become involved in the children’s lives recently. Taj: “From what I know, yes.” Cahan: “She’s Prince and Paris’ mother, yes?” Taj: “Biological mother, yes.” Taj said Rowe had started a relationship with Paris, as far as he knew. The plaintiffs then asked for a sidebar. (AP)

Plaintiffs asked for sidebar since judge ruled that no parentage question were to be asked. AEG said Debbie Rowe is the kids' biological mom. Judge read admonition to jury. She said there was a question regarding the status of Debbie Rowe's relationship with the children. Judge said they are only to consider the relationship between Michael and the children when assessing damages, if any. (ABC7) The plaintiff’s side had said before going into chambers that the mention of Rowe’s status was a violation of a pretrial order. After court, AEG Live defense attorney Marvin Putnam said it was paternity that was subject to the order. (AP)

Cahan then asked about Taj’s Twitter account, and questioned him about nanny Grace Rwaramba and whether he thought she was honest. Taj responded yes in response to a question asking whether Grace was truthful. Cahan then wanted to show a post from Taj’s Twitter account. It was a Twitlonger post urging people not to give credibility to a report by Roger Friedman. He mentioned a Grace at the end of the post. After reading it, Taj said, “That’s not the same. That’s Nancy Grace.” There was laughter in the courtroom. (AP) Cahan asked Taj if he thinks Grace Rwamba is a truthful person. "Yes," Taj answered. Grace Rwamba was the children's nanny. Cahan then showed Taj a tweet he sent in 2011. "That's not the same Grace," Taj said. "That was Nancy Grace!" Everyone started laughing.

Taj was released subject to recall.


Arthur Erk Testimony , Jacksons expert CPA

Jackson direct

Arthur Erk. He's a CPA for Citrin Cooperman, partner in the firm in New York. Erk is in the entertainment group, handle finances for entertainment. "Music happened to be my particular specialty," Erk said. Erk said they have 10 sports clients in football and baseball. He became a CPA in 1978. Erk described his extensive background in the industry. He has worked with rock back Kiss, did royalty audits. (ABC7)

"I was retained to calculate MJ loss of future earning capacity due to his untimely leave," Erk said.The categories in Tier 1 that Erk analyzed was Touring, Merchandising, Sponsorships and Endorsement, Las Vegas and Royalties. MJ wanted to have a team show in Las Vegas based on Neverland. Erk calculated its earning, use of music for royalties. (ABC7)

 

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Deposition transcripts filed with the court.

Note : these are not the full depositions, they are only the portions played in the court.

Dr. Stuart Finkelstein Deposition video transcript

http://www.scribd.com/doc/153614036/Dr-Finkelstein

Dr. Earley Deposition video transcript

http://www.scribd.com/doc/153614499/Dr-Earley

Tim Leiweke Deposition video transcript

http://www.scribd.com/doc/153614756/Leiweke

Randy Phillips Deposition video transcript

http://www.scribd.com/doc/153614877/Phillips

 

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Jacksons vs AEG - Day 48 – July 15 2013 – Summary

Katherine Jackson is in court

Arthur Erk Testimony

[ Source : Majority of the information is from ABC7 unless otherwise indicated]

Jackson direct


Erk explained business management, paying bills, intellectual property. A master recording is when artist records track in studio, Erk said. Songwriter completes a song, Erk said. A self-published individual will write notes and lyrics, sends to copyright office in Washington D.C. Use license exists whether it is artist on internet who is not signed by a record label or record company, Erk explained. Royalty calculations have not change, he said, only distribution. Technology advances have changed the industry, Erk testified. Erk: For artist to release song must go to publisher of songwriter or major publishing company to exploit this particular songwriter's song. The publisher gets 50 cents for every song and artist gets 50 cents, Erk said. He explained the formula radio stations use to calculate and collect over the air royaltiesIn a Print, Folio (printed song material) a songwriter gets 10% of price, Erk testified. In Film, there's synchronization license to get the right to hear the song in the film. It requires a worldwide license. Used to be songwriter gives up right and becomes a member of staff, Erk explained. As Business evolved, biz managers became more savvy, writers wouldn't give up 100% of copyright, would sell 50% still get co-publishing deal

"MJ was a tried and tested songwriter and artist from the time he was 5," Erk explained saying he differed from other artists who have died. Panish asked if Erk knows some of MJ's #1 songs. He responded Beat It, Billie Jean, Man in the Mirror, Heal the World, Can’t Stop Loving You. Erk explained that to be a Gold album, it must sell 500,000 copies, Platinum is one million and Diamond is 10 million sales.

Erk said he charges normally hour rate of $475. He has worked in a little over 200 hours on this case. (ABC7)

The expert has done royalty work for Jackson in mid-80’s. In 1983, he did it for "Thriller," one of the largest selling albums of all time. “When you have that many sales, there is usually money there, that means they didn’t pay according to the contract," Erk explained. When MJ’s manager John Branca was pursuing the Beatles catalogue, with 4,000 songs, Erk was hired to determine the value. "We call it net publishers share, that is amount publisher is left after paying all co-writers and everyone else," Erk said. Erk: It was our job to go to Robert Holmes a Court, Australian billionaire who owned the catalogue. It was a testing of wills. Erk: We valued catalogue at 40 million. He assessed at 49 Million, also didn't want 2 give up Penny Lane because he had family member w/ that name. The deal got done without that song. Erk said MJ was smart enough to keep his own copyrights.

Panish: When someone dies, what happens? Erk: The average male recording is 75 years. MJ lost 25 years of copyright income. The longer you live the longer the copyright goes, Erk said.

He assessed areas of touring, the movie was going out on tour, merchandise (t-shits, hats), endorsements (ads, might get signage at arena.) Erk also calculated that MJ would've done a thematic show and would've earned additional royalties on “grand rights.”

Erk described his experience in the business. He's worked with lots of artists, intellectual property, business management, royalties. He said Bravado is largest merchandising outfit company.

Erk examined AEG's budget, which initially called for 30 "This Is It" shows. Erk reviewed depositions, AEG contract w/ MJ, picture/development deal that MJ signed w/ AEG, trial testimony, Ortega and Faye's contract. He read emails of AEG's plans, budgets, handwritten notes of MJ's; read Ortega's testimony whether MJ would be successful in film industry.

The expert said he saw evidence MJ wanted to do shows in Las Vegas and had intention to record future music.
Erk assessed a numerical value for possible losses based on extremely conservative estimates.
Panish: When you say conservative analysis, why? Erk: Because I used AEG’s budget numbers that I translated.

Erk used several emails from Randy Phillips to show AEG's plans for future tours. In one, Phillips said MJ sold 750K tickets in 5 hours. AEG prepared budgets. One was at $1.45 exchange rate and another at $1.65, since they used British pounds. Erk said AEG determined what the gross revenue would be 4 tickets, estimated merchandise sales 4 shows based on 30 shows originally, not 50. O2 arena has 20K seat capacity. They sold 750K tickets for 50 shows. Erk said 1.4% of Great Britain's population bought tickets for the show

Panish: How do you assess ticket prices? Erk: We took the top 5 grossing tours and took average ticket price.

Erk, who described his financial calculation as conservative, said his projections included a 37-month tour with the London shows and an average of two concerts a week in Central Europe, Asia, Australia and the U.S. He said he also included a 10-year show in Las Vegas based on Jackson's music, where the singer would not have performed. It also included sales of merchandise and endorsements. (LATimes)

Erk said he was using conservative estimates to figure Jackson's earning potential if he had lived for several more years, completed a worldwide tour and created a Las Vegas show based on his music. The estimates took into account endorsements and royalties that Jackson could have earned and are heavily dependent on the idea that Jackson would have performed a 37-month, 260-concert world tour. (AP)

Erk showed chart w/ projections of seats they figured would be sold for MJ touring in Great Britain, Central Europe, Asia, Australia and US. He estimated the actual seat projection to be 12.9 million, out of 5.9 billion people, would generate MJ revenue of $452,155,095. Erk said he didn't consider MJ's past tour attendance since MJ said This Is It, it was going to be his final tour; he adjusted the projection. Erk said MJ's albums did “quite fantastically” worldwide, sales doubled and tripled around the world.

Erk explained that Tier 1 is what is reasonably assured MJ would've done, no speculation, very conservative estimate. Tier 1 are top artists: U2, Madonna, Bruce Springsteen, Bon Jovi, Erk said. “MJ is in a class of his own, King of Pop, no one came close."

Billboard is the music industry magazine, which has a top Box Office for concerts. In the top 25 grossing acts in 2009, Paul McCartney had 10 shows but was 3rd grossing, since he had very expensive tickets and big venues. Only two artists were sold out for all the shows in 2009: U2 and Madonna. Billy Joel and Elton John almost sold out, Erk said. The jury was shown a chart from Billboard magazine of the highest-grossing tours of 2009, led by U2, Madonna and Paul McCartney. Jackson, he said, would have beat them all.
"Michael Jackson was in a class by himself," Erk said. "He was known as the King of Pop. There’s no one who comes close to him." (LATimes)

Erk calculated MJ's ticket price average of $108.18. "He's the top of the pyramid," the expert opined. Panish asked if the price could've been higher. Erk said AEG did not expect this wild demand.Erk: The demand here was so wild, they could probably sell the tickets for a much higher price and still sold out shows.

Total Projected Economic Damages: $1,511,182,374 billion for MJ's loss of economic earning capacity based on $200 ticket minus MJ's expenses. Total projected income based on $108.18 ticket price: $1,261,745,023
Erk figured that if AEG charged $108 a ticket for the concerts, Jackson's worldwide tour and the Las Vegas show would net him $1,127,378,787. If tickets were $200 each, what were described as his "lost economic damages" would total $1,511,182,374. “Demand was so wild that he probably could have charged more for tickets and still sold out,” Erk said.
Erk pointed to the singer's record sales. "Thriller" sold 65 million copies worldwide, "Bad" 45 million, "Dangerous" 32 million, "Off the Wall" and "HIStory" 20 million and "Invincible" 13 million.“Looking at it historically, he has a huge fan base," the accountant said. (LATimes)

His projections include Jackson spending $134,386,236 total over the next 15 years, which took him to age 65 and retirement, Erk said. (LATimes)

[ Outside the presence of jury, Judge Palazuelos told audience that someone took picture of courtroom and/or jury through the courtroom window. She admonished everyone again that no pictures are allowed in the courtroom/courthouse. The windows are now covered, Sheriffs investigating. Judge told jurors they might have to have new procedures to protect them, but judge doesn't want to discuss that just yet.]

Erk analyzed five categories: Tour, Merchandise, Endorsements, Vegas shows and Vegas royalties. The assessment was based on the price of ticket sales. The estimate of MJ's gain was between $1.127 million and $1.511 million. Erk said he's been in the business for more than 34 years. He said artists always go back to do what they are good at.

Erk then calculated Tier 2 category, which is for future earnings for business MJ would most likely do. He said he had MJ on a much reduced tour, period of hiatus, another reduced tour, and decline from there up until he was 65 years old. "My belief and perception of AEG executives as well, there's no other artist like Michael Jackson," Erk opined.

Erk projected MJ do 260 shows, average of 2 per week. He said MJ was much bigger than any other artist.

Beyonce had a Pepsi endorsement deal of $50 million in 2012. Her most recent tour gross revenue was $119,500,000. MJ's TII Gross (2009 and 2010) -- $638.976.138 Erk did a calculation based on Beyonce's Pepsi deal and came up with $267,354,032. He added $50 million clothing endorsement and came up with $317,354,032. Erk said he could not compare Beyonce with MJ. "He was the King of Pop," Erk explained. "There was no other like him." Projected Income to MJ - Vegas: $269 million. That was for Vegas show after MJ died, where MJ did not have to perform. Royalties, for use of music, would pay 5% of box office: $102 million total.

Erk said the calculation in Tier 1 was based on things MJ was reasonably assured of doing. "I tried to err on the low side." Future Loss: For 37 months $1.127 billion - $1.511 billion; For 48 months $1.462 billion - $1.96 billion. Professional fees: entertainment attorney, business manager and personal manager. Erk calculated MJ would have 20% expense in fees. Future Loss Minus Professional Fees: 10% fee -- Range from $1.014 billion to $1.764 billion; 20% fee -- range $901,600,000 to $1.568 billion.

"I think their opinion is that there would be no loss of future income," Erk said about AEG economist and accountant expert. Erk disagrees.

Panish asked if Erk is familiar w/ artists saying this is it and returning to tour. "Not to me personally, but I've seen in the public eye."
Erk did not calculate how much money MJ could earn making movies. He said he thought it was best left for the jury to decide.

Tier 2 is future touring. $373,985, 179 -- total projected economic damages for Tier 2, including merchandising. Erk calculated 4 more tours through 2024. Projected Income to MJ -- Merchandise $79,407,278.


AEG Cross

AEG's attorney Sabrina Strong did the cross examination.

Erk said he spends half of his time doing business management and other half of royalty compliance. Largely, Erk said he made estimations based on touring, but he is not a tour manager. Erk testified he prepared tour budget before. But in his deposition, Erk said tour budget was not part of his responsibilities.

Strong said Erk estimated MJ would do 260 shows for TII tour, plus 4 more tours after that. She asked if that wasn't too much. He said no.

Strong questioned Erk's expertise in tours, endorsements, merchandising, Las Vegas shows. Erk: I relied of what should've been an expert, AEG's numbers. Erk never met Michael Jackson. Strong asked if Erk had personal conversation with MJ about his future plans. He said no.

Erk's firm has spent 650-700 hours for total efforts of all the employees in the company, including his 200 hours, in this case.
Strong: Had MJ not died in 2009, you estimate he would've gone on tour 3 more years, 4 more tours after that until age 66, correct? Erk: 4 more tours, until age 66, was my professional opinion.

"The show was called This-Is-It, he was going to blow it out," Erk said, adding MJ planned on earning as much money as he could. Strong: At the time MJ passed away, TII was expected to be 50 shows, correct? Erk: First leg, yes. Erk said TII sold 750K tickets in 5 hours, 525K people waiting to buy tickets. "Never done before, never done again," Erk testified.

Erk said he had triple fusion surgery just before giving deposition.

"Had he lived, I believe he would've performed the shows," Erk testified. "I believe had he lived he would've taken the stage."

For his projections, Erk assumed MJ was in good health. Strong: Did not consider MJ was taking Demerol in a regular basis? Erk: No, I did not. Erk said he didn't consider MJ's use of Propofol, drug abuse. "I'm not aware he was a drug abuser" Erk said; didn't review medical record. Erk said he would not have changed his opinion if he knew MJ was using Propofol.

Strong asked Erk if he knew MJ was ordered to pay $5 million in breach of contract for backing out of the Millennium Concerts. Marcel Avram was the promoter. "And he also spent some time in jail," Erk said. Strong showed a judgment Avram v MJ for breach of contract. "Did Mr. Jackson break the Jan. 14, 1999 contract by failing to perform the Millennium Concerts?" Jury answered "Yes.". There was $5.3 million in judgment for breaching contract. Erk said he didn't even know about this judgment, didn't use it in his opinion. Strong laid out several lawsuits MJ had for failing to perform. Erk said he had not reviewed any of the prior lawsuits.
Strong: Did you take into account any of his prior failed projects? Erk: No. He needed to work. Erk said he didn't consider the fact MJ didn't tour/perform in 12 years or Prince's testimony that his father didn't want to tour anymore.

AEG Live defense attorney Sabrina Strong questioned Erk's assumption during cross-examination because Jackson had never completed a tour that long and hadn't performed a tour in more than a decade. Strong also questioned Erk about three instances where Jackson got into legal disputes over canceled performances, but the accountant said those didn't factor into his analysis. "He needed to work," Erk said. (AP)

Strong played KJ's deposition. She said he was a bit surprised with MJ going on tour since MJ didn't want to do Moonwalk on stage at 50. (ABC7) On the video, she said she was surprised when her son announced the "This Is It" shows in London. "He would always make a joke about he don't want to be doing the Moonwalk on stage when ... he's over 50," she said. "He wanted to be doing something else." (AP)

[video=youtube_share;tXf1evF6Dto]http://youtu.be/tXf1evF6Dto[/video]

Strong asked if Erk's opinion was based on pure speculation. Erk said it was not speculative, he had reasonable assurance MJ would perform.

Strong: Mr Erk, are you aware Mr. Jackson generally spent more than $570K a month to live between Jan 2000-June 2009? Erk: I don't know that. Erk relied on a memo to come up with MJ's monthly consumption. It has handwritten notes amounting to $570k. Strong said there's testimony MJ was a heavy traveler, used charter planes and stayed at the finest hotels, would take over entire wings. Strong also said MJ spent $435,000 on air fare and hotels in two months period in early 2000s. (ABC7) Strong also questioned why Erk didn't take into account Jackson's lavish spending, which the lawyer said another witness testified in deposition consisted of $435,000 spent over two months on hotel and airfare in the early 2000s. (AP) He said he did not consider the fact that Jackson was an estimated $400 million in debt when he died as a factor in his future earning potential. (AP)

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After jury left, Panish said he wanted to put on the record that AEG didn't know if the $5.3 million judgement was ever reversed on appeal. Panish asked if he should present all the lawsuits AEG has been a defendant, like the boy who fell and died at Staples Center. "I certainly hope it is final judgment," judge said, adding she doesn't want to have to undo anything.

Attorneys discussed future calendar, it looks like jurors are having problems and need time off. Apparently in August and September, there will be a lot of days off. There are 3 weeks with only 2 day of session scheduled. Judge said mid-September has school starting, "it is just the nature of the beast."

Panish said he will try to finish this week. Witnesses to come: Erk, an economist, Dr. Brown, Katherine Jackson and maybe Tom Barrack. Judge told defendants' attorneys to be prepared to start their case in chief on Monday.

 

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Jacksons vs AEG - Day 49 – July 16 2013 – Summary

Katherine and Trent Jackson is in court.

Court opened this morning with arguments on whether it was proper for AEG lawyers to show Erk a judgment against Jackson. The judgment was related to case filed by concert promoter Marcel Avram against Jackson in Santa Barbara. Plaintiffs objected to its use. Plaintiff’s attorney Brian Panish argued that the $5 million judgment against Jackson wasn’t final -- it had been appealed and later settled. Panish argued it was improper “character evidence” and shouldn’t have been shown to the jury on Monday. AEG’s attorneys argued that the case had been settled for $6.5 million. The appeal was dropped, they said, which made the judgment final. The judge agreed with AEG Live and she wouldn’t instruct the jury regarding the judgment. “Let’s keep going, she said. (AP)


Arthur Erk Testimony


AEG cross

The promoters of Michael Jackson’s highly anticipated comeback concerts were interested in pursuing a 3-D version of a “Thriller” movie and a TV special of one of his sold-out concerts at the O2 arena in London, an accountant testified Tuesday. (LATimes)

An expert who projected Michael Jackson could have earned more than $1 billion on his comeback concerts testified Tuesday that his analysis didn't include a breakdown of the singer's yearly earnings over his lifetime and projected a longer concert tour than the superstar had ever performed. Arthur Erk, a certified public accountant who is an expert in musician's royalties, said his analysis didn't take into account thousands of pages of figures detailing Jackson's spending over the years. The accountant based his calculations on documents prepared by AEG, but on cross-examination conceded that the company never projected the singer would earn more than $1 billion after the "This Is It" shows opened. He said he didn't have information regarding Jackson's earnings over his lifetime. (AP)

AEG Live defense attorney Sabrina Strong's cross-examination focused on trying to show there wasn't historical basis for Erk's projections. (AP)

Strong immediately asked Erk about his testimony that he had used AEG Live’s figures to reach his $1 billion + estimates. A big piece of Erk’s estimates was the idea that Jackson would have done a 37-month, 260 show worldwide “This Is It” tour. Strong started out a question with "Let's be clear" and proceeded to state that AEG Live never projected $900 million in earnings for "TII". Erk agreed with Srong on this and several other questions, including one in which she said AEG didn’t contemplate 260 shows. (AP)

Strong: AEG Live never projected MJ would've earned anything close to the $900 million you estimated, correct?
Erk: That's correct (ABC7)

AEG Live never projected MJ would do 260 shows, Strong asked. Erk agreed. (ABC7)

Erk projected the worldwide tour would go to India, Japan, Central Europe and return Jackson to the U.S. for shows as well. (AP)

Strong also attacked Erk's calculation that Jackson would have spent $134 million between ages 50 and 65. She cited testimony from Jackson's former business managers and accountants in depositions that Jackson was historically outspending his earnings by millions of dollars each year. She questioned why Erk and associates who helped him compile his analysis didn't review tens of thousands of pages that detailed Jackson's spending over the years. Erk said that wasn't part of his job as a hired expert and he relied on figures about Jackson's monthly spending prepared by the singer's accountant before his death. "We boiled down what we thought was necessary to do the calculations," Erk said. (AP)

Strong then began to question Erk about Jackson’s spending, again stating that when he died he was at least $400 million in debt. Strong then mentioned that the Jackson family home in Encino was facing foreclosure in June 2009 and didn’t have access to cash. Erk: “The reason he was going on tour was he was going to get himself straight, pay off his debts and take care of his family.” Strong mentioned that the Jacksons’ Hayvenhurst home was facing foreclosure twice this morning. The 2nd time, Mrs. Jackson shook her head. (AP) Strong talked back about consumption, which is the amount of MJ's expenses. She said MJ was $400 million in debt when he died. Strong asked if Katherine Jackson's Hayvenhurst home was about to go in foreclosure. Erk said yes. "The reason he was going on tour was to get himself straight, earn money to take care of his family," Erk said. (ABC7)

Strong mentioned the deposition testimony of several of Jackson’s business managers that the singer consistently spent more than he earned. (AP) Historically, MJ spent more money than he earned, Strong said. Erk said that based on the accountant's testimony, yes. Barry Siegel is one of MJ's former accountant. Strong said Siegel noted MJ had substantial income coming in and higher expenses going out. Strong asked if Erk knows why Siegel quit his job with MJ. Jacksons' attorney objected to the form of question. Strong then said assuming Siegel quit because MJ couldn't control his spending, if that would've affect his consumption numbers. Erk said no (ABC7)

Strong talked about Jackson's prolific spending, saying he was $400 million in debt and that his mother's home was in foreclosure. She said that a former Jackson business manager had quit because the singer showed no interest in pulling back on his spending. Strong said that in one instance, Jackson bought a $1-million watch but had to return it because he couldn't afford it.Another former Jackson business manager said Jackson spent $20 million to $30 million a year more than he earned, Strong said. (LAtimes)

The lawyer also mentioned that Jackson had borrowed money against his music catalog. Erk agreed MJ “had loans on his assets.” Strong asked about a note coming due on Jackson’s loan against the SonyATV music catalog in 2009, saying he couldn’t pay it. (AP) Erk said Jackson had a $320-million loan on his portion of the Sony/ATV musical catalog, which includes Beatles songs. (LATimes)
Strong: “Michael Jackson had no ability to meet that obligation, correct?”
Erk: “Correct.” (AP)

Strong: And that doesn't account for million dollars shopping spree?
Erk: I don't call it consumption, I call it fun money (ABC7)

Strong asked if MJ spent $20 to $30 million a year more than he was earning. Erk said yes. (ABC7)

Strong said $1 billion Erk estimated didn't include repayment of MJ's debts. (Implication is you can't get damages for money to repay debts) Erk said his job was not to consider whether MJ was going to repay his debts. He was hired to estimate MJ's earning capacity had he lived. (ABC7)

Erk said he didn’t consider Jackson’s debts outside $570k a month in expenses, including repayment on Sony/ATV loan.
Erk:”That wasn’t my job to consider that.”
Strong: “You were just asked to calculate how much he would have made.”
Yes, he replied. (AP)

Panish objected to Strong’s questions about the debts and how she phrased certain questions. Judge sustained some of the objections. (AP)

Strong then asked whether Erk considered how much Jackson earned in 2001, 2002 and other years. He said he hadn’t. She asked him whether he had any idea how much Jackson earned in any year of his life. No, Erk replied. (AP) Strong asked if Erk knows how much money MJ earned in 2001, 2002, 2003. He said no and that it had no relevance to his assessment. Erk said he reviewed documents attached to depositions explaining MJ's yearly earnings and consumption. (ABC7) Strong cited at least 71,000 pages of records of Jackson’s expenses that had been produced in the case. Erk said he didn’t go through them. (AP)

Strong asked how much the expert and his firm had billed for work on the case. He said they’d billed $300,000. Erk added that if he’d gone through the expense records that Strong described, his firm's fees for the case would have been in the millions. (AP) Erk said the estimate of cost of his firm's work in this case is $300,000. He didn't review thousands of pages, eliminated all unnecessary. Erk explained he's been doing this for 34 years and it would've taken an untold amount of man hours to go through all the documents. Erk: In me and my partner's experience, we are very good in judgments. We boiled down what we thought was important for the calculations (ABC7) Erk said he had 34 years of experience. “We boiled down what we thought was necessary to do the calculations,” he said.(AP)

Strong said Erk's opinion assumes that MJ would do something he had never done before. (ABC7)

Strong: The artist usually had the final decision?
Erk: Yes, they have final say but consult with the professionals that surround them (ABC7)

"What you're projecting is totally inconsistent with Michael Jackson's history, isn't it?" asked attorney Sabrina Strong (LATimes)

AEG Live attorney Sabrina Strong showed Erk a chart that showed that Jackson's three previous solo tours comprised 275 shows over a 10-year span. She challenged Erk's contention that he was being conservative by projecting Jackson would have performed 260 shows over a three-year period. (AP)

Strong then started walking Erk through Jackson’s solo tour history. She asked him about the “Bad,” “Dangerous” and “HIStory” tours. “Bad” was the longest tour with 123 shows. Jackson was 29 at the time. “Dangerous” was roughly 70 shows; MJ was 33 years old. “HIStory” was 82 shows and Jackson was 38. In total, Strong and Erk said Jackson did 275 shows between 1987 and 2008. (In reality, the 275 shows were performed in a 10-year span between 1987 and 1997, according to figures shown in court.) (AP)

Strong showed Erk's overview of the 260 shows the expert projected MJ would do had he lived, within 37 months. Strong questioned Erk about his 260 tours estimates. She reiterated there's no AEG document saying MJ would ever do 260 shows. Erk said there was testimony that MJ could've done a 48-month tour, which would increase revenue in approximately 30%. The increase would be based on higher ticket sales and merchandising. He didn't include endorsement, which could be higher too. Erk said he didn't calculate how many more shows would be required to fulfill a 48 month tour. Using the simple 30% increase calculation, there would be an additional 78 shows, totaling 338 shows in 48 months. The expert said Randy Phillips, a top AEG Live executive, said in an email they would probably do a four year tour. (ABC7)

Strong asked Erk if MJ's record high of number of shows was 123 shows for "Bad" tour in 1987 when MJ was 29 years old. He said yes. Dangerous tour: began in 1992, MJ was about 33 years old, had 73 shows. Strong said Gongaware testified it was about 70 tours. HIStory tour, 1996, MJ was 38 years old -- 82 shows. Total of 275 shows if added all together. (ABC7)

Strong: Now you have him in one tour, 12 years later, at age of 50, doing 260 shows?
Erk: Yes (ABC7)

Strong then asked about Jackson’s place among other acts in highest-grossing concerts. None of his tours were in the Top 25. Erk explained that Jackson tended “not to go crazy with his ticket prices.” He said he charged less than his counterparts. The accountant also defended his calculations, saying his were in line with what other acts made if you added more shows to their tours. (AP)

Strong said Erk calculated MJ would gross in "This Is It" more than 10 times he ever grossed before in a tour. MJ's highest gross tour is "HIStory" -- $165 million for 82 shows. It ranks number 26 on the highest grossing tours of the all time. Even though HIStory was the highest grossing tour for MJ, he didn't take home any money, according to Paul Gongaware's testimony. (ABC7)

Strong: You estimated gross of $1.5 billion for 260 shows and the highest you know MJ ever did was $165 Million?
Erk: Yes
Strong: And is that conservative?
Erk: Yes (ABC7)

Bad -- $125 million gross. "I can tell you that show was fantastic!," Erk opined on Bad tour. Strong asked if Erk's projection is inconsistent with MJ's tour history. Erk said the show was called This Is It, his final extravaganza. "I packed a lot of shows in to go out with a bang," Erk said. (ABC7)

Regarding the ticket numbers, Strong said that for the 260 tours, Erk's assumption was that it would sell approximately 13 million tickets.
Strong: Just like with the number of shows, MJ never sold anywhere near 13 million tickets, correct?
Erk: Yes
Number of tickets sold in "Bad" was close to 4.5 million. "HIStory" tour sold about the same number of tickets, 4.5 million. (ABC7)

Erk said he doesn't think the child molestation trial would have any impact on whether people would attend his show. Strong asked if people had issue w/ MJ dangling a baby over the balcony of hotel. He said for a short time yes, but not to affect attendance (ABC7) Strong then brought up Jackson’s child molestation trial and his dangling Blanket over the balcony. Erk said they weren’t factors. Erk said AEG Live expected Jackson’s image to be rehabilitated after initial “This Is It” shows to the point he could tour in U.S. again. (AP) Erk said that the five-hour sale of 750,000 tickets to his 50 London concerts showed that Jackson's popularity had not suffered. AEG's plan, was that after the London shows the singer would perform in Europe and Asia, finally ending the tour in the U.S., he said, "and by that time his image would be rehabilitated.” (LATimes)

Strong asked Erk to agree with her that Jackson’s reputation was better in the 1980s than in late 2000s. Erk replied that the 80s were when Michael Jackson got the term “King of Pop.” (AP)

Strong and Erk argued over whether the worldwide tour was contemplated by AEG Live.
Erk said a worldwide tour was considered. He said plans for a worldwide tour were mentioned by Kenny Ortega and Paris Jackson in her deposition. Erk said he spoke to Jackson’s son Prince on Saturday night. He said Prince told him his father said, “’We’re going to Asia.” (AP) Strong asked if MJ never agreed to do more than 50 shows. Erk said he doesn't know if he agrees with that. Erk said he spoke with Prince on Saturday and he said MJ told him they were going to Asia. (ABC7) Strong kept insisting that Jackson had not agreed to anything other than the London shows, although Jackson's contract included the possibility of extending the tour. Erk said he spoke to Jackson's son, Prince, Saturday night. "He said his father specifically told him, 'We're going to Asia,' " according to Erk. (LATimes)

Erk said MJ needed to work, needed the money, so had incentive to perform all shows. (ABC7) The accountant added that Jackson needed the money, and that was a “great impetus to go out and do the shows.” (AP)

Strong then moved deeper into projections for MJ world tour. She asked him about “production kills” -- seats that can’t be used in venues. The seats aren’t available because of sight lines to the stage or other factors. Strong used them to challenge Erk’s numbers for "TII" tour. Strong asked about various stadiums, including Luca Oil Stadium in Indianapolis. Seating capacity is 70,000, but is lower for concerts. Strong noted that Erk hadn’t worked on concert tours and hadn't consulted with people who had for his projections. She told Erk to assume that AEG had put on shows at Lucas Oil Stadium and the seating capacity was 51,000 seats. Erk said he didn’t agree with Strong or AEG’s figures, saying more tickets could have been sold for spots on the field at many venues. The accountant had to concede he didn’t really know the seating capacity, and hadn’t talked to anyone who does for his calculations.(AP)

Erk and Strong went back-and-forth over several venues, and the lawyer challenged him on his projection that MJ would sell out every show. Erk said he thought that was possible. “There’s a tremendous amount of pent up demand,” for Jackson shows in ’09, he said. (AP)

Strong: You estimated Mj would've sold 100% tickets for all the show?
Erk: Based on the huge, excessive demand, yes
MJ was on a category of his own, Erk said, he was the King of Pop, could not be compared to any other artist.

Strong: You had MJ selling out Rose Bowl three times?
Erk: Yes

MJ never performed at the Rose Bowl, Strong said. Panish objected saying MJ performed at Superbowl half time there and it was sold
out. (ABC7)

Strong moved on to Erk’s projection for Jackson concerts in India, including his estimate for 10 shows at Salt Lake Stadium which seats 120k. The lawyer said Jackson only played one show in his lifetime in India. Erk projected him to do 60 shows in India on “This Is It” tour. Strong asked Erk about his research, noting that he based a lot of it on Wikipedia information. The lawyer then asked whether Erk noticed in his online research that the government banned concerts at Salt Lake Stadium in 2009. That detail isn’t currently on the Wikipedia page, but Strong said if it’s true then Jackson couldn’t have performed 10 shows there. Erk said that would have depended on whether a show could have been negotiated to be performed at the venue. (AP)

Strong asked if Erk used the same price for tickets in all shows, in different countries. He said yes, just adjusted inflation. "There are a lot of wealthy people in India," Erk said. Strong asked if Erk knew the stadium in Salt Lake City was for sports events only and that MJ would not be able to perform one show there. Erk said if there was no negotiation, yes, he would not be able to perform there. (ABC7)

------------------------------

Erk to resume on the stand. Strong estimates another half day of cross, judge gave 2 hrs

After session ended, attorneys for both sides had a heated exchange of words in the hallway when they were talking to media and fans. Both attorneys were shouting to each other, court clerk asked them to knock it off, called sheriffs. (ABC7) One issue that may come in court tomorrow morning _ a verbal tiff between lawyers on the case in hallway outside the Jackson courtroom. It happened after testimony ended and I believe all the jurors were gone by the time this happened. Plaintiff’s lawyer Brian Panish and AEG defense attorney Marvin Putnam shouted at each other after court. Panish said he overheard Putnam say something, and the attorneys exchanged words. Judge Palazuelos’ clerk came out and calmed things down. The clerk asked Putnam to leave and said she would report the shouting match to the judge and it would be addressed on Wednesday. (AP)

 

[ivy]

Jacksons vs AEG - Day 50 – July 17 2013 – Summary

Outside the presence of the jurors, judge told everyone to follow the rules of the court and that things are getting out of hand. This comment was made in light of the heated exchange between the attorneys in the hallway yesterday while talking to the media and fans. Judge called attorneys for both sides into her chambers for a sidebar. Earlier today, the court sent email to all media members that interviews are to be conducted only in approved areas or outside the building. Yesterday, after session concluded, attorneys for both sides were in the hallway speaking to the media and got angry at each other. Jacksons' attorney Brian Panish and AEG's attorney Marvin Putnam shouted words to each other. Sheriffs were summoned to calm them down. (ABC7)

Before testimony began, the clerk outlined the rules for the courtroom and courthouse, saying no interviews should occur outside courtroom. Superior Court Judge Yvette Palazuelos also called the attorneys into chambers and met with them before testimony resumed. (AP)

When jurors took their seats, Judge Yvette Palazuelos told them they have a better estimate for end of trial to be in mid-September. Judge said attorneys are trying their best to expedite things, but with some days off and lots of witnesses estimate is stretched further. (ABC7) When the judge took the bench, the attorneys addressed the time estimate of the trial. The jury inquired about it yesterday. AEG Live defense attorney Marvin Putnam said he’s going to try to wrap up his case by the end of August, assuming plaintiff’s rest this weekPutnam said he’s weighing how much of a defense he needs to put up, and Palazuelos told him he needed to take as long as he needs. For the first half of September, there are only four days court is in session. Plaintiff’s lawyer Brian Panish noted that if the defense estimate is off by a few days, then that would put the end of their case in mid-September. Palazuelos told the jury she expected the case to end in mid-September, which is later than some jurors thought they’d be here. Palazuelos: “Even though we’re going over a little bit, I don’t think it’s unreasonable.” She told juror to convey any concerns to the court (AP)


CPA Arthur Erk Testimony


AEG cross


Sabrina Strong, for AEG, doing the questioning.

Strong continued to challenge Erk’s projections of Michael Jackson’s earnings. She focused on estimates for endorsement deals. (AP) Strong asked Erk about sponsorship/endorsement. He estimated MJ would get $317 million in the "This Is It" tour. Erk estimated clothing endorsement to be $50 million and $217 million based on a calculation of a Pepsi deal Beyonce had in 2012. Erk said MJ's clothing would become a fashion statement and that people would want to wear it. Thus the demand. Strong questioned whether Erk really thought MJ, at 50 years old, would be a fashion icon for young audience. He said yes. She then asked if the $50 million figure was speculation. Erk said no that he had reasonable belief shows would happen, clothes would sell. "Speculative is hope," Erk opined. Erk came up with $50 million for clothing endorsement based on earlier deal of $28 million plus inflation/financial adjustments to year 2009. Erk said he relied on news reports regarding Beyonce's Pepsi deal. He didn't actually see the deal himself. Beyonce's most recent gross was close to $120 million. The Pepsi deal was, reportedly, $50 million, which is almost 42% of the tour revenue. (ABC7) Strong challenged all of Erk’s figures this morning, starting out with his endorsement projections. Erk stated his figures were conservative. Erk projected that Jackson would get a $50 million clothing endorsement deal. Strong tried to get Erk to say that was pure speculation. Erk said it was his expectation that Jackson would get an endorsement deal based on his popularity in the 1980s, “This Is It” ticket sales. Strong also challenged Erk’s projection that Jackson would have gotten another endorsement deal worth $267 million. Erk based that figure on a calculation based off the reported $50 million value of a Beyonce/Pepsi endorsement deal. Beyonce’s reported deal _ Erk doesn’t know if the figures are right _ was the equivalent of 42% of her tour revenues. The accountant adjusted his figures for Jackson up based on his assumption that the singer would do a 260 show worldwide tour. Erk assumed that Jackson would get a “Pepsi-like” endorsement deal with several companies, but he’s not aware of any deals pending in 2009. Strong also pointed out that Erk’s numbers were gross figures, meaning that he calculated Jackson would receive the full $267 million. Using gross figures wouldn't account for any sharing of the deal’s profits with AEG Live or some other entity. (AP)

Strong: Do you know if anyone ever used your methodology to estimate endorsement deal?
Erk: No (ABC7)

Strong inquired Erk whether he knows any other artist who has endorsement being 40% of gross revenue. Erk said that most endorsement deals are private, Beyonce's was the only one that was made public through the media. Strong questioned whether Erk always trusted the media reports to be true. He said no, but no one disputed Beyonce's endorsement number. Strong asked if Erk knows for a fact that Beyonce's endorsement deal being 42% of gross revenue is true. "If the reported figures are correct, the 42% is correct," Erk said. "I answered before I didn't see the contract, my firm doesn't have Beyonce, I couldn 't confirm the deal." (ABC7)

Strong asked if Erk thought MJ's image was rehabilitated in June of 2009. "What I do know as fact is that the demand was there," Erk said. "The demand was there, I think that is unquestionable.". "I think AEG was more concerned with people in the US than worldwide," Erk said. (ABC7)

Strong: Was his image rehabilitated by June 2009?
Erk: It wasn't consideration on my part since it sold so many tickets in a short time (ABC7)

Strong: So my question was, do you think MJ's image was rehabilitated to get an endorsement deal?
Erk: If you need a yes or no answer, the answer is yes
Erk: By evidence of selling so many tickers, I have no other way to come to that conclusion, but based on the facts of tickets sold, yes
Strong: You are not aware of any endorsement or sponsorship deal for TII tour being in place when MJ died?
Erk: No (ABC7)

Strong asked if MJ's molestation accusations and trial affected his estimation in the endorsement deals. "The outstanding, unprecedented demand for tickets took care of that," Erk said. Going back to Beyonce, Strong asked if Beyonce ever had negative publicity. "As far as I know, no," Erk responded. (ABC7) In discussing the Beyonce deal, Strong brought up the child molestation trial and Beyonce’s squeaky clean image. The lawyer asked Erk whether he knew of any artist who got a sponsorship deal worth hundreds of millions of dollars who’d been involved in a high-profile criminal trial. Erk said that he did not know of any artist who’d received such a big deal after a trial. (AP) “(Beyonce) has never been a defendant in a criminal trial,” Strong suggested to the jury. “In fact, Beyoncehas never really suffered any negative publicity.” (NYDailyNews)

Strong also asked whether Erk’s merchandise estimates were overly-optimistic due to possible over-inflation of his ticket sales projections. Erk said he didn’t think he over-estimated the number of tickets that would be sold on a “This Is It” world tour. The accountant estimated that concert-goers would spend an average of $19 on MJ-merchandise at each concert. (AP)

After a break, Strong asked Erk about his reliance on an AEG Live budget for his projections. He used a budget prepared on June 24, 2009. The AEG budget estimated Jackson would receive between $22 million and $30.7 million from the London “This Is It” shows. It appeared AEG estimated Jackson would also receive another $8 million in merchandise sales. Erk estimated Jackson would earn $452 million for worldwide concerts, another $121 million in merch and $317m for endorsements. (AP) Strong asked Erk if he relied on AEG's own budget to come up with his estimations. He said yes. AEG's projection of what MJ would take home was a little over $20 million, according to the budget Strong showed. Net Income, amount of money AEG Live projected MJ would take home had he performed all 50 shows at the O2 arena: little over $22 million Alternative budget had projection of a little over $30 million, Strong showed. Strong said the range AEG Live was projecting MJ would take home for performing all 50 concerts at O2 arena was between $22 and $30 million. (ABC7)

AEG projected 750,000 tickets sold and didn't estimate revenue of merchandising. AEG did not project a single dollar in endorsement in this budget or any other budget that Erk saw.

Strong showed a side-by-side demonstrative of AEG's and Erk's projection.
Erk's projection:
Net revenue to MJ, 260 tour $460 million
Merchandising $121 million
Endorsements $317 million
Net number of $890.5 million (ABC7)

AEG's defense asserts that the $1.5 billion figure projected by certified public accountant Arthur Erk is inflated. Erk testified that Jackson would likely work beyond his contract deal for 50 shows at London's O2 Arena and instead perform 260 shows, taking the show around the globe and selling out at every venue. But that's not all. Defense attorney Sabrina Strong showed Erk's calculations for tours beyond that. That at age 56, Jackson would embark on four more world tours - a total of 455 shows - Jackson performing until he was 66 years old.(KABC)

Approximately 13 million tickets sold, 260 shows, merchandising and endorsement estimate. Erk said he relied on email exchanges from September 2008 that included records, movies and others, such as worldwide tour. "It shows they clearly intended to take him around the world," Erk said about the email on the plan, mentions a net to MJ of $132 million. Erk said AEG had no idea of the demand and when the shows were sold out in a matter of hours they knew they could take the show everywhere. (ABC7) The accountant said AEG prepared figures in 2008 showing that Jackson could earn $132 million for a worldwide tour. He said that was in a proposal to Colony Capital and was based on a tour of 186 concerts. This was before “TII” contract was signed. Erk said his projections were much higher than these figures because the success of “This Is It” ticket sales showed the demand for MJ shows (AP) The documents prepared by AEG Live LLC envisioned 186 shows, with Jackson earning $132 million for his performances — far less than the $835 million that an accountant who previously testified for the Jackson family had projected the singer would pocket from 260 shows around the globe. (AP)

Strong: Do you know any tour that ever grossed that much?
Erk: No. This would've been world record breaking tour (ABC7)

Strong: You testified in your depo you have no idea whether MJ would be successful at making movies, correct?
Erk: That's correct (ABC7)

Strong asked if Erk recalls Katherine Jackson saying MJ didn't want to do the Moonwalk after he was 50. He said yes.

Strong played Paris Jackson's deposition regarding future plans: Paris says her dad wanted to relax, didn't want to tour anymore. However, Paris also said it was a world tour. "How did you know that? Because he told us we were going around the world," Paris said. (ABC7)

How long did Michael Jackson plan to work? Paris Jackson yawns, and then offers two opinions in a video deposition shown to the jury by the defense.
"He still had a lot of music that he was still working on but he kind of needed to relax," she said.
"So did your dad ever tell you he wasn't going to tour anymore after the 02?" Paris was asked.
"Yeah," she replied.
But later she was asked, "How did you understand it was a world tour?"
"Because he told us," she replied.
"What did he tell you?"
"That we were going around the world on tour," she said. (KABC)

Also on Wednesday, the jury heard videotaped testimony from Paris Jackson.Paris, whose testimony was recorded during a deposition in March, said her father still had hits up his sleeve, but needed to take a break from touring. A lawyer for AEG had asked her about claims her famous dad planned to “retire” from the music business. “He still had a lot of music that he was still working on, but he kind of needed to relax,” Paris said as the jury watched the footage on a huge courtroom video screen.“Did he tell you he wasn’t going to tour anymore after O2,” AEG lawyer Marvin Putnam asked, referring to the 50 shows that were booked at the famous London arena but ultimately cancelled following Michael’s overdose death on June 25, 2009. “Yes,” Paris replied. Jurors then saw a second clip of Paris’ testimony requested by lawyers for her grandmother, family matriarch Katherine Jackson.“Did (your dad) explain to you how long the (‘This Is It&#8221 tour was going to last,” Putnam asked Paris in the second excerpt shown Wednesday.“I assume a long time since it was a world tour,” she said. “Those usually last a long time ... He told us that we were going around the world on tour.” (NYDailyNews)

Strong showed demonstrative with Erk's projection for MJ's future tours:
40 shows at 60 years old
50 shows at age 63
45 shows at age 66

Erk acknowledged MJ did 275 shows between 20-50 years old.

Strong: So you had him do 455 shows over 5 tours until the age of 66?
Erk: 260 shows were reasonably certain to happen, 195 shows was an estimate based on my professional opinion.

Strong questioned Erk: "Are you aware of any other artist doing five tours between age 50 and 66?" "I did not consider that," Erk replied. (KABC)


Jackson redirect

Erk said AEG's experts in the same field as his charge more than him for the work.

Panish: Has Mr. Jackson ever been proved guilty of any allegations that AEG mentioned?
Erk: No
Panish asked if Phillips, Anschutz, Gongaware did not enter into an agreement with MJ due to concerns of the allegations?
Erk: They entered into the 3 year tour contract as well as movie deal
Panish: Was there any emails AEG, Philips, Gongaware saying they didn't want to make money off of MJ due to the allegations raised?
Erk: I didn't see anything to that effect. (ABC7)

Panish asked Erk if Tiger Woods had some things that could be viewed as negative allegations against him. He said he believed so. As to Tiger Woods, Erk said in 2012, he believes it was reported endorsements went back up to $70 million. Panish: Alex Rodriguez -- has there been allegations against him regarding certain activities? Erk: Yes, surfacing every once and a while. Panish: How are his endorsements? Erk: He's doing fairly well (ABC7)

“Let’s talk about A-Rod. Have there been allegations against Mr. Rodriguez about certain activities?” Jackson family lawyer Brian Panish asked a witness in an apparent reference to the accusations of steroid use dogging the Bombers third baseman. “They’re still coming about, surfacing every once in a while,” responded Arthur Erk, a Manhattan accountant called to the stand by the Jackson family.Panish brought up A-Rod, along with Tiger Woods, to draw examples of mega-stars who made big money after being struck by scandal. “How is he doing?” Panish continued, referring to A-Rod. “At least according to media reports, he’s still doing fairly well,” Erk replied. (NYDailyNews)

Regarding Beyonce and her endorsement deal, Erk said the calculation he made came up to 18,5%, not the 42% Strong said. (ABC7)

Panish asked if MJ's past and the allegation have anything to do with how much money MJ could earn. Erk said he based his opinion on AEG's projection and "if it was good enough for them, it was good enough for me." (ABC7)

AEG spent money before even getting to London, Erk testified. Panish asked Erk 2 assume Phillips estimated MJ would make $50-100 million for London dates if it was consistent w/ his opinion. He said yes .
Panish: Assume Phillips said MJ's earnings could rise to 500 million if he did a world tour? Is that consistent with your opinion?
Erk: Yes (ABC7)

As to future tours, Erk said Paris testified in her deposition (played earlier today) that MJ told her they would tour worldwide. Erk said Ortega's deposition and testimony talked about take this tour on the road, to the world, and that MJ would like for him to go too. Erk said Ortega discussed going to India and Japan with MJ. Panish asked if MJ and Ortega working further together. Erk said MJ wanted to ultimately produce movies.(ABC7)

Erk said AEG had the resources to find out about MJ's financial issues and there's no reason to believe they didn't know about MJ's problems (ABC7)

Erk said he didn't focus on MJ's health because AEG signed the contract and began spending money, which determined the tour would go forward. Panish asked if Erk saw evidence AEG was concerned with MJ's health. Erk said only that he passed a physical, was healthy and ready to go.
Panish: Did Phillips make statements as to whether MJ could perform a worldwide tour?
Erk: Yes (ABC7)

Panish said AEG had questions of Demerol, baby, allegations, trials so he wanted to clear whether there was demand for the tour. Panish showed Gongaware's testimony when he talked about the high demand for MJ's tickets. Panish asked why he took Phillips and Gongaware's testimony into consideration for his projections and calculation. "They were the ones selling the tickets, they should be in the know," Erk said. (ABC7)

Panish: Did you take that into consideration as to whether or not there would be demand for MJ's tour?
Erk: Absolutely
Panish: Was MJ popular and could've sold tickets?
Erk: Absolutely (ABC7)

Panish read a lengthy testimony from Randy Phillips when he said they were all surprised with the demand for tickets and standby people. Strong objected, and added that there's no question about the demand for the 50 show.
Panish: Is there any question in your mind AEG not only believed they could sell out in London but worldwide?
Erk: No question
Panish: Would you describe the demand for MJ's ticket a hope?
Erk: No (ABC7)

Erk went through the email describing what Phillips' plans were. "If London goes smoothly, we could migrate this show to the brand new, state-of-the-art stadium in Berlin, the O2 World," Phillips wrote. (ABC7)

Email from September 2008 plan:
In July 2009 -- If all goes well, we embark on a well routed and spread out worldwide tour taking advantages of the gigantic secondary ticket market, massive sponsoring opportunities subject to how well we have rehabilitated him and very lucrative "exotics". (ABC7)

Mick Jagger is 69 years old, lead singer of the Rolling Stones. He just finished up shows that AEG promoted, Erk said. Keith Richards had a long history of heroine problems, Erk said. He's also almost 69 years old and is touring, doing quite well. Barbra Streisand is 71 and just finished up shows for AEG as well, Erk testified. Erk said Streisand grossed more than $18 million. (ABC7)

Panish showed a spreadsheet with all MJ's monthly expenses. The annual consumption based on actual receipts for MJ -- $7.6 million. Erk said he used $570K/month, which would work out to $6.7 million. He used higher monthly figure, but less annually. For professional fees, Erk said he considered 10-20%, anywhere between $3-5 millions. (ABC7)

Panish: Does people usually lend money for people who can't pay it back?
Erk: No (ABC7)

Erk said MJ had assets to secure loans. Erk explained how the loan of significant amount of money works.
Panish: What was it that secured the debt?
Erk: Primarily his Sony/ATV catalogue (ABC7)

Erk said MJ did not have working income in ten years.
Panish: If you don't have work income, is it possible you're going to spend more than you earn?
Erk: Most likely (ABC7)


Panish: Did you just make-up this world tour idea?
Eark: No (ABC7)
Email from Gongaware:
MJ first draft worldwide tour projection. Here's a first-draft look at worldwide MJ tour. On paper, it starts Jan 9 and runs thru April 2011...Right now we project 186 shows... Net to Mikey $132 million. It's a big number, but this is not a number MJ will want to hear. He thinks he's so much bigger than that (ABC7)

186 shows over 27 months -- Gongaware projection
260 shows over 37 months -- Erk projection

Erk said AEG had 1.59 show per week in their projection and Erk had 1.60 shows per week in his projection. (ABC7)
Panish showed a document Gongaware attached to his projection with a list of tentative venues all over the world. World tour included: Berlin, Hamburg, Munich, Paris, Zurich, Milan, Johannesburg, Dubai, Japan, India, Australia, New Zealand , South America, US starting in Florida, Texas, New Orleans, California, Denver, Utah, Chicago. Panish said this is a document prepared by Gongaware in addition to the 50 shows in the O2 arena. There was a projection of $3-$10 million for private shows. Except with the private shows, Erk says his calculation was similar. Panish asked if shows in AEG's projection were carried over to 37 months, how many shows would that be? Erk: Almost 260 . Panish asked why 37 months. Erk said contract between MJ and AEG was 3 years, and he added a month. (ABC7)

Panish asked Erk is he saw multiple AEG documents detailing plans for worldwide tour. He said yes.
Panish: What are the figures AEG used for worldwide tour?
260 shows for my budget, 37 months
186 shows for 27 months (ABC7)

Erk said that prorating the same amount of shows in 37 months, it is almost 260 shows. AEG projection is $132 million in the low end, $150 million in high end for less shows, less months, Erk said. Erk said he used stadium shows and bigger arenas because of unprecedented demand. (ABC7)

Email from Phillips to Leiweke on April 15, 2009: He is happy and they picked all male and female dancers. I intend to shove those 50 shows up Irving's and Rapino's asses and march on to do another 3 years of a world tour. (ABC7)

Email Thomas Overseen saying he had a client with serious interest in MJ's tour in India. Phillips answered: Thanks, Thomas. MJ will definitely heading your way (ABC7)

Panish asked Erk if he reviewed this email to determine if the tour in India wasn't just a hope, but plan. He said yes. (ABC7)

Erk said Phillips was striking deal with Bravado to rent empty store in Oxford Circle to offer nothing but MJ merchandising. Panish asked if Erk believed it would help sell the merchandise. He said yes. (ABC7)


AEG recross

In re-cross Strong asked if Erk saw the June 2009 AEG budget and how much money AEG projected for the sale of merchandising. Erk said he saw it and believes it was maybe in the $10 million range or thereabouts. Erk projected $121 million, the expert said. (ABC7)
Strong: And the merchandise projection AEG had was between $8 and $10 million, right?
Erk: Yes, that's what was in the budget (ABC7)

Strong pointed in the email where there was an indication for "a" date in India, not 60 dates in India like Erk projected. (ABC7)

Strong: AEG Live had a lot of hope after selling the show?
Erk: I think it's more than hope
Strong: Wasn't AEG hopeful for a successful tour?
Erk: You're always hopeful (ABC7)

Email from Phillips to Nanoula in June 2008 detailing the plans for MJ's future: Richard, these are just my off the cuff ideas... The email mentions 12-14 new songs and then release of series on new singles. Erk said he doesn't know that MJ finish them. (ABC7)

Strong: Randy Phillips acknowledged that all had to go well, didn't he?
Erk: It appears that way (ABC7)

Strong asked if Phillips hoped he could have massive sponsorship opportunities if all went well. Erk said yes. Erk said he has no knowledge of what AEG tried to do to get sponsorship opportunities for the tour. As June 2009, Strong asked if Erk saw any evidence or sponsorship in place before his death. He said no. (ABC7)

Strong talked about the September 2008 email with $132 million projection. She asked Erk if the email was written without knowing whether MJ would ever agree to it. He said yes.

Back to India, Gongaware projected 3 shows plus one private show. He contemplated 8 shows in Japan plus one private. Strong said Gongaware's projection was not near what Erk calculated. (ABC7)

Email from Phillips to Leiweke: Colony is receptive but skeptical like us as to whether MJ will really work. (ABC7)

Strong: No one at AEG projected the numbers you projected, correct?
Erk: That's correct (ABC7)

Strong: MJ agreed to only 50 shows at the time he passed away in June 2009, isn't that correct?
Erk: Yes (ABC7)


Jackson redirect

"He took his children wherever we went," Erk said.
Panish in re-re-direct: What did he tell his children
Erk: We're going on a worldwide tour (ABC7)

Panish asked if selling out in a matter of hours is going well. Erk responded "Yes and then some." "It can always go better, but it was fantastic," Erk said. Panish asked if Gongaware, as good promoter and with the sales he saw, would want more shows. Erk said he would've done as many as he could. (ABC7)

----------------------------------------------------------

During arguments late in the day, judge asked AEG if they intend to call Dr. Murray to testify. Putnam responded he has no intention. (ABC7) During arguments on Dr. Brown's testimony, the judge asked AEG's attorneys whether they intend to call Conrad Murray. "I have no intention of calling him," AEG Live defense attorney Marvin S. Putnam said when asked about calling Conrad Murray as a witness. (AP)

 

[ivy]

Jacksons vs AEG - Day 51 – July 18 2013 – Summary

(source : ABC7)

Dr. Emery Brown Video Deposition Testimony

Dr. Brown is an anesthesiologist and practices in Boston, Massachusetts.He detailed his extensive background in the medical field. Dr. Brown is a practicing anesthesiologist, works at MIT in Massachusetts. Among many of his current jobs, Dr. Brown is an Associate Director at Institute for Medical Engineering Science at MIT. He's also on the faculty of Sleep Medicine Dept at Harvard, did his medical thesis under Dr. Czeisler, who testified earlier in the case. Dr. Brown is board certified in anesthesia. He belongs to several professional societies and publications in the field. The first 20 minutes of Dr. Brown's testimony was detailing his qualifications. He has written around 140 or so articles for professional journals on medical matters.

Dr. Brown billed $1,000/hour and asked to donate the funds to Mass General Hospital. The total: $75,000 donated to Mass General Hospital. Dr. Brown has given depositions before, but has not testified in court.

Anesthesia can be different, Dr. Brown said: general anesthesia/sedation and regional anesthesia. In MJ's case, it's a general anesthesia/sedation case. Dr. Brown: General anesthesia consists of 4 behavior and physiology status: unconscious, analgesia (no pain), not moving, amnesia. Dr. Brown said the heart rate, blood pressure, breathing and temperature are under control in order to go into surgery. "General anesthesia is a type of coma, it's a reversible coma," Dr. Brown said. Dr. Brown said coma is a state where patient is unable to receive and respond to stimulus. He said you give drugs to induce coma, more to maintain it during the surgery, then reduce to have patient come back. Dr. Brown said there's tendency to call general anesthesia sleep, but it's not sleep, you wouldn't be able to tolerate surgery under sleep.

Propofol is one of the anesthetics Dr. Brown uses. He reviewed MJ's autopsy and the drug was found in his system. Dr. Brown uses Propofol in almost all the patients he has. It's the most commonly used anesthetic all around the world.

Dr. Brown explained:
Induce anesthesia - put person in coma
Maintain anesthesia - as infusion maintains it
Sedative - manage level of pain

Dr. Brown said Propofol is quite potent on a cc to cc comparison with Valium and benzodiazepines.

He has been studying Propofol for the past 7 years. Dr. Brown doesn't think there's any other person who has studied the drug more than him. Dr. Brown said he published a paper regarding guidelines of use of Propofol.

MJ autopsy indicates the amount of medication (Propofol) is similar to what is found in general anesthesia.
Michael Koskoff: Do you agree with that statement?
Dr. Brown: In terms of levels that were there, I do.
Dr. Brown: The infusion rates found in MJ's autopsy are the same infusion rates when given Propofol for major abdominal procedure.

Dr. Brown is not board certified in sleep medicine. He said Dr. Czeisler is world renowned in sleep medicine and circadian rhythm.Dr. Brown studied the effects of Propofol in relation with sleep. One of the articles is "General Anesthesia, Sleep and Coma." No one had taken the time to put general anesthesia next to sleep next to coma to compare the relationship of the states, Dr Brown explained

Koskoff: Is the state of the brain under Propofol sleep?
Dr. Brown: It is not sleep

Dr. Brown said it's easy for doctors to tell patients they are going under sleep, but his article was exactly to clear up the language.
Koskoff: How about doctors using Propofol as an agent to produce sleep?
Dr. Brown: They would be tremendously mistaken

REM: eyes are moving, brain somewhat in a wake state, body somewhat paralyzed, heart beat irregular
Non-REM -- heart rate slower, breathing a little more regular
Sleep is two states: rem and non-rem
When you sleep, you go into non-REM stage 1, then stage 2 non-REM sleep, stages 3 (slow waves) and 4 sleep non-REM sleep and REM sleep.

Dr Brown: During sleep you have natural oscillation of states. On general anesthesia we bring you to a stage and hold you there for surgery. Dr. Brown said there's no way in the world that you can have the normal sleep patterns while under sedation.

Dr. Brown explained medical coma: you give enough drugs to go down to a state, hold you there to give a chance for the brain to heal.Dr. Brown: Once you are done, you bring them out of induced coma. Dr. Brown said sedation, general anesthesia, medical coma is not sleep. There's no REM or non-REM sleep under sedation or general anesthesia, Dr. Brown explained. Patients don't go under regular sleep patterns. Dr. Brown drew a picture how the sleep circuit works. To be conscious, you have to be awake and have to be able to process, Dr. Brown said.

In order to fall asleep, Dr. Brown said you need to shut the brain down. Dr. Brown: To REM sleep, all the circuits shut down. The control center tells the entire system to shut down; cycle takes roughly 7-8 hours.

Propofol will not produce sleep, Dr. Brown said. Dr. Brown: When you give Propofol, it comes in, knocks out all of the circuits, including respiratory circuit, and the cortex. "It overwhelms the sleep and respiratory circuit, cortex," Dr Brown explained. He said it's not possible to go between REM and non-REM sleep.

"The first criteria of being under sedation is to be unconscious that you can't be awaken," Dr. Brown said. Dr. Brown: You achieve unresponsiveness with Propofol. Dr. Brown: With Propofol you get unconsciousness, you get amnesia, you can't remember. For pain, you need an analgesic. Dr Brown explained for light procedures Propofol is sufficient to produce mild muscle relaxation. For surgery they add muscle relaxant too. "Propofol produces the unconsciousness state of general anesthesia," Dr. Brown said. "To be clear, Propofol can produce a small part of it (analgesia), makes you unaware," Dr. Brown explained. For colonoscopy, for example, the procedure is not that painful but uncomfortable, Dr. Brown said. The mild sedation makes patient unconscious, unaware, you can be unaware to pain, provides some component of analgesia, Dr. Brown said. "For surgery, need to add drug for pain," Dr. Brown explained.

Dr. Brown said patients commonly report feeling good, feeling refreshed after being administered Propofol. Propofol causes release of dopamine, Dr. Brown said. Dopamine is kind of like endorphin we hear, it gives you this good feeling.Brown: Propofol releases dopamine that can be interpreted as refreshed sensation of natural sleep. But Propofol cannot produce natural sleep.

In cross examination, Kathryn Cahan asked about the difference between euphoria and good feeling after using Propofol. Dr. Brown said he's trying to give a lay explanation of what the sensations are, so lay people can understand it. Dr. Brown said release of dopamine can cause what some people could interpret as refreshed, invigorated, some people say euphoria. Only now studies have been able to determine the release of dopamine associated with Propofol. The study was done in rats, not human. "Good feeling" reaction is a well-known effect of the Propofol, Dr. Brown said.

"He was not having a restful sleep if he was using Propofol as a sedative for sleep," Dr. Brown said. Dr. Brown said his understanding is that MJ was using Propofol for many days, so MJ must've had some perceived benefit. He said there have been a number of sources for this information, such as the press, high levels of Propofol in his blood at time of death.

"I was under the understanding the night he died was not the first night he used Propofol," Dr. Brown testified.One of the things Dr. Brown reviewed was Dr. Murray's interview with LAPD, in which the doctor said MJ was taking Propofol for 60 days. Dr. Brown said he believed Dr. Murray's statement that he only gave a small amount of Propofol to MJ the day he died to be false. The doctor said Dr. Murray's statement was not consistent with the autopsy levels.

Dr. Brown said he read Dr. Czeisler's trial testimony and in there the figure of 60 days, or two months, was mentioned. Dr. Brown said he doesn't know what the source was for Dr. Czeisler's 60 days figure. He also noted he's not a sleep expert.

Dr. Brown: One of the reasons I agreed to become part of this case was that I wanted to make it clear what the anesthetic does the brain.Dr. Brown: And I think I've done that. The effects of anesthesia and sleep are not under my purview. Dr. Brown said he has not queried his patients about their sleep pattern after anesthesia.

Dr. Brown explained the typical anesthetic has at least 10 drugs. To try to ascribe the effects of Propofol would be exceedingly naive. The implication of anesthetics as something that has implication on a patient's sleep if not under my purview, Dr. Brown explained.

Dr. Brown: I noticed some inconsistencies of what he (Murray) said we administer (Propofol) and what he said wasn't correct. Cahan asked if Dr. Brown believe Dr. Murray gave MJ Propofol for 60 days prior to his death, according to the LAPD interview. "I have no way of knowing what Dr. Murray did every night when he treated Michael Jackson," Dr. Brown said. Cahan: Have you been able to determine how much Propofol MJ was given in the months prior to his death? Dr. Brown: That's not something I've looked in to

Dr. Brown said he was asked to help understand the mechanism of how Propofol work, not asked to analyze Mr. Jackson's behavior.
Cahan: Can someone be in a profound coma and live?
Dr. Brown: Yes, many years, there are many cases of that
Cahan: And those people don't die as lack of sleep?

Dr. Brown said there's a difference between anesthetizing someone into a coma and someone being in coma from head injury. "You can be there for several days," Dr. Brown said regarding induced coma. In order to maintain sedation, Propofol is given to induce and retain sedation, then decreased to bring the person back, Dr. Brown said. Dr. Brown: You may have different levels of being awake. Dr. Brown: The person may not be the same as they went in. In fact, you don't want the patient to be awake like before a painful surgery. The effect of anesthesia could last several days, Dr. Brown said, and that's currently under study.

Dr. Brown doesn't know how much dopamine is released, but said he could check the numbers.

Dr. Brown said Jacksons' attorneys never told him to testify to something he wasn't comfortable with.

Koskoff talked about the police report where Dr. Murray said he gave MJ Propofol every night for 60 nights up until June 21st. On June 22nd, he started to wean him off, Koskoff said. That seems to be more accurate description to what was in the report, Dr. Brown said


Peter Formuzis Testimony


Jackson direct

Brian Panish did direct examination.

Dr. Formuzis has a Ph.D in Economics. He described his extensive background and qualifications in the field. Dr. Formuzis is a former Cal State Fullerton professor. He worked at the Federal Reserve in various capacities. Dr. Formuzis has consulted for the Los Angeles commission, several private banks, attorneys involved in wrongful death cases for 40 years. Dr. Formuzis has been qualified as expert witness in at least one thousand cases and had cases in several states in the US.

Dr. Formuzis has worked with Panish before. He testified for Panish between 20-30 times, was retained between 50-100 by Panish's firm. Has been retained against Panish's firm too, Dr. Formuzis said. Panish asked if he knows anyone more qualified than him to testify in his field. Dr. Formuzis said no.

Dr. Formuzis was asked to take the income projection created by Mr. Erk and to take those projections and discount them to present value

"Most individuals have capacity, or ability, to earn money," Dr. Formuzis explained. Dr. Formuzis: Some people have the power to make money, ability to make money, but are not doing so.

Dr. Formuzis is not giving an opinion on what loss would be regarding movies and other things Erk didn't calculate. Dr. Formuzis has been doing present value calculation for almost 50 years, about 40 years in wrongful death cases. Dr. Formuzis is only assessing present value of economic loss, not non-economic, like love, companionship. For present value calculation, Dr. Formuzis said you subtract interest and personal consumption to arrive at current figure. Dr. Formuzis used 7-10% discount rate. Panish said AEG has an expert calculating 18% discount rate.

AEG had invested approximately $34 million, so they had confidence they would get that money back, Dr. Formuzis said. The lower the discount rate, the more net money left. The lowest discount rate Formuzis used was 7%. He calculated 10, 15 and 18% as well.

Present value:
$108 ticket price
7% - 919,366,479
10% - 856,002,240 -- Dr. Formuzis chose
15% - 768,026,177
18% - 723,523,742

Total includes tour earnings, merchandising, endorsement, Las Vegas show, LV royalty, professional fees (at 15% rate), personal consumption

Tier 1 Range
$919,366,479 - $723,523,742 (7% to 18% discount rate)

Tier 2 range:
$187,564,227 to $101,639,514 (7% to 18% discount rate)

Dr. Formuzis did not calculate how much the loss of love, companionship to the children and Katherine Jackson.


AEG Cross

In cross examination, Sabrina Strong asked if Mr. Erk's projections are wrong, whether his calculations have no meaning. Dr. Formuzis said it depends how wrong the numbers are. "It would be a proportional degree of errors," he said. Strong then said she had no more questions to Dr. Formuzis. Cross examination lasted a couple of minutes.

 

[ivy]

Jacksons vs AEG - Day 52 – July 19 2013 – Summary

Katherine Jackson Testimony


Jackson direct

She states her full name: Katherine Esther Jackson. She said her date of birth is May 4, 1930, which makes her 83 years old. She said she's a little hard time hearing. Mrs. Jackson said this is the first time she's testified in court and she is a little nervous. (ABC7)

Panish: Did you get a lot of sleep last night?
Mrs. Jackson: No (ABC7)

Mrs. Jackson testified she's a private person, she's always in the background of her children. (ABC7) "I leave the spotlight for my children," she said. (AP) "The most difficult thing is to seat there in this court and listen to all the bad things they say about my son," Mrs. Jackson explained. "They are not true," she said. "He's not here to speak for himself."(ABC7) "A lot of the things that have been said are not the truth," Katherine Jackson said. "He's not here to speak for himself" (AP) Panish asked if she was here to speak on his behalf. "I will do my best," she answered. (ABC7) “The most difficult thing is to sit here in this court and listen to all the bad things they say about my son,” she said, later adding. “A lot of the things that have been said are not the truth. And he’s not here to speak for himself.” “Are you here to speak for your son Michael?” Panish asked.“I’ll try my best,” she replied. (LAtimes) "The most difficult thing is to sit here in this court and listen to all the bad things they've said about my son," she said in her soft, barely audible voice. "None of the things are the truth." (NYDailyNews)

"I want to know what really happened to my son and that's why I am here," Mrs. Jackson said. (ABC7)

Panish: How does he make you feel that they said they were going to say you son was a bad person?
Mrs Jackson: My son was a very good person. He gave to charity, is on the record for giving to charity. I'm so nervous, I'm so sorry. (ABC7)

"I know my son was a very good person," she said. "He loved everybody. He was in the Guinness Book of World Records for the entertainer who gave the most to charity.” (People)

Katherine Jackson She was born in Alabama. Her father’s name was Prince and she described his singing talents. Mrs. Jackson explained that when MJ named his son Prince, it wasn’t a King of Pop reference. It was a family name. (AP)

Mrs. Jackson said MJ named his son Prince because of her family. "He loved my father," she said.
Panish: When you learned MJ was going to name his son Prince, were you happy?
Mrs. Jackson: Very! (ABC7)

Mrs. Jackson testified the musical talent came from her grandfather on her mother's side, Columbus Brown. She said her mother would open the windows and his song rang over the valley. "My father taught us to play the guitar," Mrs. Jackson said. Her sister played the cello. "We always had music around the house." Mrs. Jackson said she had polio as a child, Infantile Poliomyelitis. "I wore a brace on left leg from age 7 to 9," she said. "I was shy." Mrs. Jackson said Michael loved all children, especially those who had something wrong with them: orphans, hospitals for disable children. Michael would spend the day with Make a Wish foundation. (ABC7)

Mrs. Jackson married Joseph Jackson when she was 19 and he was 21. They lived in Gary, Indiana. They bought a house on Jackson Street. "It was a coincidence," she said. It looked like a garage in a way. It was a 4 room, 2 bedroom house. She raised 9 children: Rebbie , Jackie, Tito , Jermaine, LaToya, Marlon, Michael, Randy and Janet. Mrs. Jackson said they had bunk beds. Jackie was the oldest, he got his own bunk. Randy was baby, slept in Katherine and Joe's room. Mrs. Jackson said that sometimes she would wake up to them harmonizing singing. Joe worked in a steel mill, was sometimes laid off 2-4 weeks She took a job, between Randy and Janet, since there was a 5 year gap. She was a clerk at Sears and Roebuck. (ABC7)

Panish: Did you always have a lot of money?
Mrs. Jackson: No, not at all
Mrs. Jackson: I made a lot of clothes, watch the newspaper, bought a lot of things on sale, went down to Salvation Army to get shoes. (ABC7)

"I had to live payday to payday," Mrs. Jackson explained. "The money was scarce, we had to eat." She said they didn't want to go on welfare. "We picked vegetables, fruits, keep in the freezer and that's how we survived."
Panish: Are you a good cook?
Mrs. Jackson: The kids think so
"I know how to prepare a potato every way you can think of," Mrs. Jackson said. (ABC7)

She said she enjoyed having a large family and lived in a cul de sac near little league field. Jackie and Tito played baseball. Michael would spend his money with candy and cookie, Mrs. Jackson said. He would set up a store to sell them. (ABC7) Panish also showed a photo of the Jackson’s home in Gary, Ind. & pics of Jermaine and Tito on their Little League team, the Katz Kittens. The team was named after the mayor at the time, who sponsored the team, Katherine Jackson said. The mayor was in the photo, next to her sons. She said Michael Jackson would save money to buy candy at the Little League field. But he didn't eat it all. Instead, she said Michael Jackson would the candy and play “Store Man,” a game in which he was merchant. (AP)

The pop star’s mother spent much of the morning talking about raising her nine children with husband Joe in a four-room house in Gary, Ind. Money was tight, she said, particularly when her husband couldn’t find work at the steel mill. Katherine Jackson recalled making her children’s clothes, cutting coupons from newspapers — even picking vegetables she would preserve. Katherine Jackson said that both she and her husband came from musical families and that their talents were passed on to their children. She recalled going to sleep at night — she and Joe in one of the bedrooms, her sons sharing a triple bunk-bed in the other — and waking up to the children “harmonizing and singing.” (LATimes) She described moving the family to Gary Ind. after marrying Joe Jackson. They moved into a home on Jackson street, a coincidence. She also described the family’s hardscrabble years as they struggled to scrape by. “I picked vegetables, I canned food,” Mrs. Jackson said. She said every year she’d buy ¼ or ½ a cow for food. “That’s how we would survive.” (AP)

"I was always close to God," Mrs. Jackson said. "II raised my children the best I can with spiritual guidance." She was raised Baptist, then became Lutheran and wasn't satisfied with that. When old enough to understand started searching. "I searched and found the true religion: Jehovah Witness," Mrs. Jackson testified. Jevohah's witnesses don't celebrate birthdays or other dates. They celebrate one day, that's Jesus last supper. Some became Witnesses, Michael, Rebbie and LaToya. The others are not. Her husband wasn't a witness, so they didn't stop holidays right away.(ABC7)

Picture of Katherine Jackson during her high school years. "Oh my God, that's me," a shy Mrs. Jackson said. (ABC7)

Michael was born Aug 29, 1958. As to this photo: "It shows my sweet little boy to me," Mrs. Jackson said. (ABC7) Panish showed a photo of Michael as a toddler, smiling at the camera. He asked what it showed. “It shows him as a sweet little boy to me,” Katherine Jackson said. “My baby.” (LATimes)

Michael was always sensitive and loving, Mrs. Jackson said. One day, when his brother was sick, Michael was holding his hand and cried.(ABC7) Michael didn’t let the fame go to his head, she said. Katherine Jackson told stories earlier in the morning of her son as a child, crying because one of his other brothers was sick. “Michael has always been sensitive and loving,” she said. (LATimes)

Panish asked when MJ showed he loved music. "He was born dancing," Mrs. Jackson said. "He was in my arms and couldn't be still, was dancing". Mrs. Jackson told a story when she had a Maytag with roller that squeezes water out. It was old and rusty and it would make a squeaky noise. MJ would be dancing to the squeaking noise. "He was dancing and sucking in bottles," Mrs. Jackson said. (ABC7) Michael, she said, “was born that way.” “When all the kids were dancing around, he was in my arms and he couldn’t be still. He was dancing to the music,” she said. “And when he started to talk, he would still dance.”Her washing machine, she said, used to rattle to a rhythm. She recalled finding her seventh children standing next to the machine, “dancing, sucking on the bottle, to the squeaking of the washer.” The jury laughed. “He just loved music,” Katherine Jackson said. “He loved to dance.” (LATimes)

The children loved the Temptations and imitated them all the time, Mrs. Jackson said. Panish asked if they had television in the house. Mrs. Jackson: We had an old TV, TV would break, had a TV man take it away and sometimes didn't have money to get it back. (ABC7)
The children would sing and dance, she said. "We always had music in the house." They were very young, they danced and sang. Michael was 5 years old, they went on to contests at school, then professional. There was not a lot to do in Gary, Mrs. Jackson said. So the high school had events and the boys would win every time there was a contest. Michael won every contest. When the other kids knew the Jacksons were coming they were Oh my God!, Mrs. Jackson said. Originally, the name was Jackson Brothers Five, but the name was too long, so they cut it short to Jackson 5. Mrs. Jackson: Michael was 5 and the sang Climb Every Mountain. He started singing, my father and I cried like a baby. (ABC7) Katherine Jackson said she and her children would listen to country music — something her father played when she was a girl — and her older sons began singing in competitions at local high schools. Michael was about 5, she said, when he sang at his own school program. She said she went to the school with her father-in-law to watch her son sing “Climb Ev'ry Mountain.” “I was so nervous when he walked out on the stage because he was always shy,” she said. “And he started singing the song and he sang it with such clarity. … Joe’s father sat there and cried like a baby. He looked around, and I was crying too.”“He got a standing ovation for his performance, and he wasn’t nervous, and I was shocked,” she continued, saying she thought he “felt more at home when he was on stage.” (LATimes)

Panish: How did that make you feel?
Mrs. Jackson: I cried (ABC7)

Michael joined his brothers’ group soon after, she said, and the boys would rehearse at home, pushing the furniture back toward the walls of the living room and dancing in the middle of the floor. They kept singing at local contests, only losing once, she said with a chuckle. “I think they were sick of seeing the Jacksons win,” she said. (LATimes) Jackson 5 lost a contest once to a boy who lived next door and won that year. The boys rehearsed at the house. "We saved money to buy amplifiers," Mrs. Jackson said. Mrs. Jackson said she made the suits. She said they were called "Homemade suits" (the jury laughed). (ABC7) Panish showed videos and photos of the Jackson 5, featuring a young Michael smiling as he sang and danced with his brothers. The attorney asked Katherine Jackson what type of suits her son wore in one black-and-white photo. “Homemade suits,” she responded, drawing laughter. (LATimes)

Mrs. Jackson: When Gladys Knight and Temptations would ask for us to be on stage with them and they got paid that way. They signed with Motown in 1968. The boys moved first to California, Katherine came four months later. "I had always wanted to live in California," Mrs. Jackson explained, since Gary, Indiana was so cold and snowed. Jackson 5 started making records when they signed with Motown. The first 4 singles became number one records, Mrs. Jackson recalled. Mrs. Jackson explained the Jacksonmania that happened at this time. Shes said there was so many girls around the house she got tired of it. "They'd come and stay all day and sometimes they stayed so late I had to drive them home," Mrs. Jackson remembered. Panish showed video of their early life in Gary, Indiana, dancing at 5, Motown, audition, ABC song, TV show, Motown 25. (ABC7) The boys’ careers took off – they singed a record deal with Motown in 1968 -- and Katherine Jackson talked about moving to California with her family. Girls swarmed their home, she said. “I got so tired of it,” she laughed. (LATimes)

Panish: As mother, when you saw MJ perform like that, how did you feel?
Mrs. Jackson: I felt very proud (ABC7)

Special performances surprised Mrs. Jackson. When he was 14 he sang solo in the Academy Awards shows. "I was very proud of him," she said.
Panish: Were you nervous about it?
Mrs. Jackson: I was a little bit, but he did well (ABC7)

Mrs. Jackson said MJ liked rats. One time they went to Beverly Hills to have dinner and he kept putting crumbs in his pocket to feed the rat. Michael didn't like dogs, Mrs. Jackson said. She recalls one day of a dog bite and Michael been afraid ever since. Despite that, Michael got a chocolate Labrador for the children, named Kenya. They had a turkey, a parrot, ferrets, mice, cats. (ABC7) Katherine Jackson also related why her son disliked dogs. She said it was because one badly bit his brother Randy when they were children. It was a friend’s pit bull that they were watching, and the dog bit off a chunk of Randy’s arm, Katherine Jackson said. (AP)

Michael was a very good artist, Mrs. Jackson said. He did a lot of art in school and some of this pictures have been sold. He'd write songs. Katherine said Michael didn't seat and watch TV. She said it's very hard for her to seat and watch them talking about Michael being lazy. "My son was not lazy," Mrs. Jackson said. "That is the biggest lie around." (ABC7) On the witness stand, she said an email written by Paul Gongaware, a top AEG Live executive, that described her son as lazy was especially hurtful."My son is not lazy. You don't get to be the biggest," she said, pausing, "by being lazy." (AP) Panish asked Katherine Jackson whether her son sat around and watched TV. No, she said. “My son is not lazy,” Katherine Jackson said. “You don’t get to be the biggest” _ she paused for several seconds _ “by being lazy.” She told the jury that her son liked art and that some of his drawings had been sold. She mentioned his songwriting as well. (AP)

Katherine Jackson said her grandson Prince is a better student than Michael was, though. Panish played a clip from “The Wiz.” (AP). MJ was a straight A student. He liked movies, Katherine named a few: The Wiz, Sidney, 12 Angry Men. Panish show snippet of The Wiz. Jurors were highly entertained at this point. Some smiled, some pursed their lips as if they were trying not to smile. Katherine said Michael and Quincy Jones got along very well, worked together in various projects: Thriller, Bad, Off the Wall.(ABC7)

Panish then asked her about MJ’s practice of writing notes. He “wrote notes to himself all the time,” she said. Michael Jackson would write notes about how many records he wanted to sell from each album. She said his notes would come true. (AP)

Panish: When Michael was 21, did he write down what his goals were?
Mrs. Jackson: Yes, Michael wrote notes to himself (ABC7)

She said he'd write where he wanted to be at certain time, how he wanted an album to sell. He was still living at home in Hayvenhurst. He wanted to be known as MJ, not little Michael or little Jackson, Mrs. Jackson explained. (ABC7)

Panish showed video of the first time MJ did the Moonwalk (Billie Jean song). Jurors smiled. He used to practice all the time, Mrs.
Jackson said. He has a room over the garage where he danced two hours straight without stopping. The sequined silver jacket MJ was using in Billie Jean was Katherine's. He went into her closet, got it before the show, never gave it back. (ABC7)

She mentioned that Michael lived at the family home at Hayvenhust until he was 30 years. He practiced dancing in a room above the garage. Panish asked whether success got to her son’s head. “No,” she replied. “Michael was the most humble person around.” She discussed her son remodeling Hayvenhurst for her, and taking family photos and blowing them up to hang in his dance rehearsal space. Mrs. Jackson said he surprised her by fixing up that room in that way. He also put up a plaque with a poem to his mom that's still there. (AP)

MJ continued to live with Mrs. Jackson until her was 30. "When he became 18, he wanted to buy me a house," she testified. But by that time houses had gone up to millions of dollars, so he decided to rebuild the house. "The way you see Hayvenhurst is the way he rebuilt it," Mrs. Jackson said. He had a room upstairs he didn't want anyone to go in. He then got all the pictures and put them on the wall instead of wallpaper. He said 'here's your surprise,' she said. Panish showed video of the room. "He gave this to me," Mrs. Jackson said. Even the ceiling has pictures. "Everything is covered." (ABC7)

She recounted a couple incidents in which her son Michael disguised himself and she didn’t realize it was him. One time was on the set of his short film “Ghost.” She visited the set and was greeted by a white man. It was MJ, in makeup. He also wore a disguise when they went out to speak to people about being Jehovah’s Witnesses, Katherine Jackson said. Katherine Jackson said she didn’t recognize him until he said, “It’s me mother.” They then went out and knocked on people’s doors. Panish: “Did he get the door slammed in his face?”
Katherine Jackson: “Lots of times. They never knew who it was.” (AP)

Panish: Did MJ like music videos?
Mrs. Jackson: Oh yes. They were like short movies, Thriller. He invited me down while doing movie "Ghost."
Mrs. Jackson: I was seating at the set, a white male man came to me and I said I'm here to see my son. He said 'mom, it's me!' (ABC7)

Michael was involved in the Jehovah Witness for a while, did "filed service." He had to disguise himself, wore a fat suit.(ABC7)

In 1988, Michael purchased Neverland. Panish showed video of it, the animals, roller coast, poem written by Michael, movie theater. "He finally got a candy store," Mrs. Jackson said. Mrs. Jackson said Michael made the ranch available to people. He opened it to disable children, would invite classes of children. In the movie theater, Katherine said they had special chair for sick children who couldn't seat in regular seats. (ABC7) After this, Panish showed a clip of Neverland Ranch, complete with music that played at the property. The video showed the rides, zoo. It also featured the candy stand. Mrs. Jackson said that her son finally had his candy stand, an allusion to his childhood game. The Neverland video also showed the train station, which Michael Jackson named Katherine in honor of his mother. (AP)

Panish: Did it have a train station?
Katherine: Yes
P: What is it called?
Mrs. J.: Katherine (ABC7)

Katherine said the children loved Neverland. They were homeschooled. The kids would go to Chuck & Cheese and other kids would ask do you have animals? They would say elephant, giraffes, Mrs. Jackson recalled. One lady once told Grace 'don't they have great imaginations,' she said. (ABC7) Mrs. Jackson said her grandchildren loved Neverland. Strangers didn’t believe them when they said they had giraffes and elephants as pets. (AP)

The questioning then turned to darker issues, with Panish asking Mrs. Jackson about her son’s pain and medical conditions. She mentioned that Michael Jackson’s scalp had been burned, he had back pain. She also mentioned his Vitiligo. She said her son trusted his doctors and mentioned Dr. Allan Metzger was one of his primary care physicians. (AP)

Mrs. Jackson said Michael had been burned, badly burned, and was in a lot of pain. He had a balloon under the scalp. Mrs. Jackson: He took that money from Pepsi settlement and donated it to the children's burn center. He had back injury too, she said. He had vitiligo, a disease that turns the skin white. "He just wanted to get it over with" she explained. He didn't talk much about his insomnia, Mrs. Jackson said. He couldn't sleep at all at night when he was at home. (ABC7)

Panish: Did you ever see Michael abuse drugs or medications?
Mrs. Jackson: No, I never saw
Mrs. Jackson: I know he was taking pain medications. Many times I went to his room unannounced and I never saw him that way. (ABC7)

Panish asked whether she ever saw her son abuse medications. She said she didn’t, but she heard about it from her other children. Mrs. Jackson said she knew he was taking pain pills. She said she dropped in on him unannounced and never saw any signs of misuse. She said she went to his house one time because her children were pushing for an intervention. She didn’t want to go, she said. “When we went out there, Michael was fine,” Katherine Jackson said. She said she could never prove that he had a problem. She mentioned speaking to him again about it when he was living in Las Vegas. “He promised, he kept saying, ‘I’m OK,’” Mrs. Jackson said. (AP)

She said she tried an intervention because she heard from the other kids but didn't think he was abusing drugs. The other children told her it would mean much more if she went. "When we got there, Michael was fine," Mrs. Jackson said. (ABC7) Katherine Jackson also told the jury she had heard from her other children about concerns that Michael Jackson was abusing prescription medications, but he seemed fine when they tried to intervene. (AP) She went to MJ's Las Vegas home and talked to him about drug abuse. Michael said "Mom, I'm okay, I'm okay." Mrs. Jackson: Sometimes a mother is the last to know... and sometimes you are embarrassed. (ABC7) She said she also heard from her other children that Michael Jackson was abusing prescription medication, but she didn't know what to believe. She said she visited him in Las Vegas a few years ago to ask him about it. "He promised, he kept saying, 'I'm OK,'" she told the jury. "Sometimes the mothers are the last to know," she said. She said she told her son, "I don't want to hear on the news that you're not here anymore." Katherine Jackson did not say when the meeting with her son occurred. (AP)

Panish asked Mrs. Jackson about seeing her son at a party in May 2009. It was billed as a 60th anniversary party for her and Joe Jackson. It wasn’t actually their anniversary, she said. “I think Janet just named it that so we could have a party,” she said. She said she didn’t notice that her son was especially thin, but added that he was wearing a jacket at the party. (AP) Katherine Jackson's 60th anniversary in May 2009. Mrs. Jackson: At time time to me Michael looked ok. Later, I saw he was thin, he was dressed in jacket and all, I didn't notice he was thin. (ABC7) "Then I saw he was thinner. I didn't notice at first because of how he was dressed. He had a jacket on," she said. (Reuters)

"Michael and I were very close," Mrs. Jackson said. He was the son -- a mother wouldn't want a better son than Michael. He was very shy." (ABC7)

Poem Michael wrote to his mother.
Panish: How did that make you feel?
Mrs. Jackson: It made me cry for one thing... I felt very loved.
"Mother, My Guardian Angel" -- by Michael Jackson
Panish: When you received that, how did it make you feel?
Mrs. Jackson: I cried (ABC7)

He then asked whether she was financially dependent on her son. “Michael took care of me, my every need, my every want,” she said. “He gave me everything,” she said. Panish asked about gifts. Cars, jewelry and a mobile home were mentioned as MJ's gifts to his mom. (AP)

Panish: Did he give you gifts?
Mrs Jackson: All the time. He gave me everything, the necessities of life, gifts, cars, jewelry, mobile homes (ABC7)
Panish: Did he give you money?
Mrs. Jackson: Yes, cash. Michael never wrote checks (ABC7)

Panish then asked Mrs. Jackson about losing her son and she started to break down. “That’s the worst thing that can happen to a person.” Katherine Jackson looked pained as she described her son as humble. Panish asked if she was OK. She said yes. (AP)

As to how she's affect by the loss of love, support: Mrs. Jackson: No one knows until it happened to someone. Mrs. Jackson: That's
the worse thing that could happen. When I lost Michael I lost everything. He was the most loving, very, very humble. "When a mother loses a child," Mrs. Jackson said crying "that's the worse than can happen to a person." Mrs. Jackson said she lost the best thing ever as she wiped out tears. (ABC7)

Katherine Jackson wept on the witness stand Friday as she described her relationship with her son Michael, saying that when he died, she “lost everything.” The 83-year-old matriarch said she and her seventh child were “very close,” saying “a mother wouldn’t want a better son than Michael.” He took care of her “every need, my every way,” Katherine Jackson said, for example by remodeling her Hayvenhurst home, covering the walls of a room with enlarged pictures of their family. He also wrote her poetry, she said. After Michael Jackson died, his older brother Jermaine found another handwritten poem to his mother and had it framed. Katherine Jackson said she cried when she read the words. “All my success has been based on the fact that I wanted to make Mother proud,” the poem ends. “To win her smile of approval.” When attorney Brian Panish asked how she had been affected by her son’s death, Katherine Jackson broke down. “When a mother loses a child,” she said, crying. “No one knows until it happens to them. That’s the worst thing that could happen to a person, losing a child. “I lost my mother, my father and my sister … but when I lost Michael, I lost everything,” she said. (LATimes)

He moved on, asking her about a deposition clip that was played in which she described her son saying he didn’t want to be on stage at 50. She said she thought it was funny, but it was just a joke. She said 50 isn’t that old, and you necessarily don’t feel old at 50. It was then that Panish asked Mrs. Jackson about whether her son could perform the 50 scheduled “This Is It” shows. Katherine Jackson: “He couldn’t do every other night like AEG wanted him to do at first.” She said she called AEG Live CEO Randy Phillips and Tohme Tohme and told them he couldn’t do the shows the way they had them scheduled. (AP) She said she heard about the This Is It tour through Grace Rwamba. She said he was joking when he said he didn't want to do the Moonwalk at age 50. "He used to think that 50 was really old.” Mrs. Jackson said she didn't think her son could do 50 shows every other night as was planned. She called Randy Phillips and Dr. Tohme. (ABC7) Katherine Jackson said she called the CEO of promoter AEG Live LLC to express her view that her son could have done 50 shows, but not if they were spaced closely together. "He couldn't do every other night like AEG wanted him to do at first," Katherine Jackson said. She said she called AEG Live CEO Randy Phillips and her son's manager, Tohme Tohme, to express her concerns about the "This Is It" schedule.. (AP)

Panish asked whether Katherine Jackson ever visited the Carrolwood Drive mansion. She said yes, and she went into his bedroom. “Every time I went there, I went into his bedroom,” she said. She said she and her nephew Trent would watch movies with Michael Jackson in his bedroom at the Carrolwood mansion. (AP)

Michael’s then doctor, Conrad Murray was “pacing the floor,” in the hospital, and Katherine testified she had never seen him before. (Radar) Mrs. Jackson didn't know who Conrad Murray was until after MJ died. She didn't know MJ had died when she arrived at the hospital. She said she had been out on field service and she said one of the fans said they brought someone out on a gurney completely covered up. "Later on I got a call to go to the hospital, I thought he was just sick," Mrs. Jackson said. Mrs. Jackson said she saw many people who worked with Michael at the hospital, like Frank DiLeo. Dr. Murray was pacing back and forth. Mrs. Jackson: Nobody wanted to tell me, I was seating and waiting, I guess they were back debating. "Michael had a reaction," they told Mrs Jackson. "I said how is he? Did he make it? Did he make it? And Frank said no," she recalled, crying. (ABC7) She broke down as she described the day her son died. She said she was told by another of her son's managers, Frank Dileo. "I just started screaming," she said, crying and clutching a tissue in one of her hands (AP)

Katherine Jackson, a Jehovah’s witness, said she was out in “field service” — going door to door to share her faith — and returned home to a message from her husband on that June 2009 day. One of the fans who had gathered outside Michael Jackson’s Neverland Ranch had called Joe Jackson, saying someone had left on a gurney “completely covered up,” she testified. “Later on I got a call to come to the hospital, so I thought maybe he was just sick,” she said. Katherine Jackson said she arrived to find Jackson’s staff and a man she later learned was “packing back and forth.” Someone took her to a room where she waited, she said, until her son’s manager approached. “Frank DiLeo came and told me that Michael had a reaction, and I said, ‘Well how is he?’ ” she said. “And nobody said anything.” “I said, ‘Did he make it? Did he make it?’ and Frank said no,” she said, her voice breaking. Katherine Jackson continued to cry on the stand as she described her reaction. “I just started screaming.” Jackson said she was then taken to another room, where she was attended to by nurses and later met with her grandchildren. Paris Jackson, she said, was particularly emotional. “She was screaming, looking up at the sky and said, ‘Daddy, I want to go with you.' ” Katherine Jackson said. When it came time to leave the hospital, the family matriarch said, her granddaughter turned to her.“Grandma, where are we going?” she recalled Paris asking. “And I said, ‘You’re going home with Grandma.” (LATimes)

Mrs. Jackson didn't see the children until later. "I was crying so hard," she said. "Paris was saying 'dad I want to do with you (crying), I can't live without you' that's what she kept saying." Mrs. Jackson: They were there hugging and saying 'Daddy, I love you!' "I never went down to the morgue, never wanted to see Michael like that," Mrs. Jackson testified, crying. When they left, Paris said 'grandma, where are we going?' Mrs. Jackson told her 'you are going home with grandma.' (ABC7) Katherine Jackson said her granddaughter Paris Jackson was inconsolable at the hospital and was looking skyward saying, "'I can't live without you'" and "'I'm going with you.'" (AP)
Panish asked about the adjustment without their father. She said the two boys I can say fine. Paris is having the hardest time. Paris had 5 big pictures of Michael in her room and Mrs. Jackson said she wondered how she could do that, she saw them and felt so sad. Paris' whole room is a collage of picture just like MJ had, Mrs. Jackson said. Mrs. Jackson said Paris was looking for a special heart. She found a broken heart, hung one part in Michael's neck and she put on the other. Prince is affected by not spending time with his father, Mrs. Jackson said. Paris took MJ's pajama top, didn't want anyone to wash it. She sat it on her bed. Panish asked how Paris is affected. "Oh My God! She wanted to go where daddy was," Mrs. Jackson said. Blanket doesn't want to cut his hair. Daddy loved his hair, so he doesn't want to cut it. (ABC7) Paris, 15, has had the hardest time dealing with her father’s death, compared to siblings, Prince Michael, and Blanket. Jackson’s only daughter, has a pair of her father’s pajamas, and never wants them washed because “she wanted his scent,” Katherine told jurors. (Radar) Wiping her face with a tissue, Katherine said the adjustment has been hard for Paris, who put photos of her father all over her room. "I thought she was the bravest. She had a very hard time at first." (NBC)

“My nephew and I and Paris and her brothers … went everywhere trying to find this special heart, and it was a broken heart,” Katherine Jackson said. “When she got it, she went to the morgue and she hung one heart around her father’s neck.” Paris kept the other half, her grandmother said. Paris also kept a pajama shirt of her father’s, Katherine Jackson said, putting it on a pillow on her bed. She hung photos of him in her bedroom, later covering a wall with more pictures. “I was wondering how could she do that because I didn’t want to see him,” Katherine Jackson said. “Every time I saw him I felt so sad.” Katherine Jackson acknowledged that Paris had received medical help following her father’s death, including a hospital stint. The girl has said “that she wanted to go where Daddy was,” she testified. Though her grandsons are more subdued, Katherine Jackson said, they also miss their father. The youngest, Blanket, keeps his hair long -- he “doesn’t want to cut it because that’s the way Michael liked it,” she said. Katherine Jackson said her son changed after his children were born, describing his songs “more loving, more meaningful.” “It just changed his life,” she said of fatherhood. (LATimes)

Panish showed a picture of Blanket with long hair. Mrs. Jackson said he doesn’t want to cut it because that’s the way his dad liked it. Katherine Jackson: “He’s 11 but he’s going to cut it sooner or later,” she said. (AP)

"Michael was one of the best fathers," Mrs. Jackson said. "You'd be surprised what a good father he was." Mrs. Jackson said MJ's writing changed, he was more loving and meaningful, he wrote from his heart more. "Words could not describe the love for his children," Mrs. Jackson described. (ABC7)

Panish: Mrs. Jackson, do you miss your son?
Mrs. Jackson: Words can't explain (ABC7)

Recounting the day Michael died, Katherine became extremely emotional. “Do you miss your son?” Jackson’s attorney Brian Panish asked. Choking back tears, Katherine said: “There are no words.” (Radar)


AEG cross

On cross examination, Katherine admitted it was her choice alone to bring this lawsuit against AEG. She said it was hard sitting in court "listening to people call her son a freak ... it hurts to sit in court and hear all these things. It’s hard for me listening to how sick my son was. (NBC)

Putnam asked if Katherine saw all the exhibits that were going to bed shown in court today. She said yes. (ABC7)

Putnam: You initiated this lawsuit against AEG Live?
Mrs. Jackson: Yes (ABC7)

She doesn't remember when it was filed, brought it on her behalf and the children. It was her choice to bring this lawsuit. She never talked to MJ's children about it, discussed with her children after, but not with Joe. (ABC7) He asked Mrs. Jackson about dates of the suit, Conrad Murray trial. She didn't recall them. (AP)

Putnam only had a few minutes, and he asked Katherine Jackson about who she consulted with before filing her lawsuit.
She said she didn't consult with her children before filing the case.
Putnam: "This was your descision alone?" "Yes," Mrs. Jackson replied.
Katherine Jackson said she didn't discuss it with her grandchildren either. Or Joe Jackson, _ she told jurors he doesn't live with her. (AP)

Putnam asked her about her decision to sue AEG Live in September 2010. She said she didn't discuss with her children or her grandchildren before filing the lawsuit. "This was your decision alone," Putnam asked. She said it was. (AP)

Putnam asked her that despite being very private person she brought on this lawsuit and has lived a very public life for the past 40 years. "My family is famous, I was always on the background," Mrs. Jackson explained. Putnam asked her if she gave interviews to Dateline, 20/20, Oprah (after my son died). She said yes . "My life is as private as much as I can keep it private," she said. She said she was nervous being in front of people she doesn't know. (ABC7)

"I wanted to find out, I think I owe it to my son to find out what really happened to him," Mrs. Jackson said. "I heard stories and I heard from my grandson he was being pressured, that he was asking for his father, that Joe would know what to do." Mrs. Jackson: My son was sick and Kenny Ortega said nobody gave him a cup of tea. Nobody said call the doctor, let's see what's wrong w/ him. Mrs. Jackson: It hurts to seat here in court and hear how sick my son was and no one was trying to help him. (ABC7)

Mrs. Jackson said it was hard for her to be sitting here in the courtroom and listening people "call my son a freak, saying he is lazy." "This week I had to listen how broke his was, he didn't take a dime home," Mrs. Jackson said. "Why he didn't take a dime home? Because he was giving it to charity." (ABC7)

Putnam asked her about things that were said in the case that weren't true. She cited the Gongaware "lazy" email. Putnam asked whether Mrs. Jackson said heard Gongaware's explanation that her son didn't like to rehearse. She said no. Katherine Jackson said she closed her ears to some things said during the trial, including Gongaware's explanation of his "lazy" remark. She also mentioned that an AEG executive had called her son a "freak."
"It hurts to sit here and listen to all these things," she said.(AP)

Putnam said Gongaware explained lazy was because her son was late for rehearsal. “He was not lazy," Mrs. Jackson said. "Mr. Jackson was sick, he couldn't rehearse." Putnam: He didn't like 2 rehearse in prior tours. "Michael didn't have to rehearse a lot, he knew the moves, he helped create them" she said (ABC7) Putnam asked her about testimony by tour director Kenny Ortega earlier in the trial, who used the word "lazy" in the sense that Jackson was reluctant to rehearse. "He knew what he was doing. He didn't need that much rehearsing," she said, adding that, in June 2009, her son "was sick and couldn't rehearse." (AFP)

Putnam then asked: But the witnesses called were by your attorney, right? Mrs. Jackson responded yes.
Putnam asked about Dr. Murray: "My son needed another doctor, a real doctor," Mrs. Jackson said. Mrs. Jackson: The doctor was for his children but I didn't know who he was. Later I heard it was Dr. Murray. (ABC7) "My son was sick... and they knew he was sick, and nobody said 'call the doctor.'" she testified, adding that she didn't know who Murray was until after Jackson'w he was sick, and nobody said 'call the doctor.'" she testified, adding that she didn't know who Murrays death. "That doctor was for his children, I didn't know who it was," she said, adding: "My son needed another doctor." (AFP)

Under cross-examination from AEG attorney Marvin Putnam, she grew frustrated and confused and ultimately asked to stop shortly after a lunch break. She returns to the stand on Monday. When Putnam asked why she filed the lawsuit in 2010, she responded: "I want to find out what happened to my son." "My son was being pressured," she added. "He asked for his father. My son was sick. Nobody said 'Call the doctor. What's wrong with him?' Nobody said that."When Putnam said he did have a doctor, Jackson said: "My son needed another doctor, an outside doctor, not Dr. Murray." (Reuters)

"I want the truth on what happened," Katherine testified. Putnam asked what was untrue and bad things said in the trial. Mrs. Jackson said 'they called him freak, having a chance to meet the freak.' Putnam asked if this was sent by someone who is not a party to this lawsuit, sent to AEG Live. Mrs. Jackson: I don't remember who sent it, I know it is hard to seat here and listen to it. He's not a freak. "My son is dead, so anything about him said that is bad, it hurts," Mrs. Jackson explained. (ABC7) "It's hard for me sitting in court and listening to people call my son a freak, saying he was lazy," she said, staring intently at Putnam. "He was not a freak," she added. (AFP)

Putnam: It was very hard hearing all the bad things said about your son for the past 40 years?
Mrs. Jackson: Yes (ABC7)

Putnam questioned the fact that Mrs. Jackson's attorneys didn't deny the fact that her son had problems with drugs. "My son was on prescription drugs, that doesn't make it true about other drugs they said he was on," Mrs. Jackson said. (ABC7)

Putnam asked if she sued Kenny Ortega as well. She said she doesn't' remember, there was a list of people in the suit. The attorneys stipulated that Mrs. Jackson dropped the lawsuit against Kenny Ortega. Then there was lunch break. (ABC7)

Putnam asked Mrs. Jackson about suing Kenny Ortega. He asked her whether she was informed when he was dismissed from the case. She looked down and said she forgot whether she had been informed. Putnam asked other questions about Ortega, and Panish objected. Panish noted that they'd addressed the issue when Ortega was on the stand.
The judge sustained the objection. (AP)

"Forget it," she said as she stopped before answering Putnam's question about why she initially included, and later dropped show director Kenny Ortega as a defendant in her lawsuit.
"Forget what ma'am?" Putnam asked.
Jackson remained silent for about a minute, staring back at Putnam.
Would it help to reread the question, he asked.
"No, it wouldn't be helpful," Jackson answered curtly.
The judge finally ordered the question stricken from the record because the answer involved privileged discussions with her lawyers. (CNN)

Putnam: Bringing lawsuit, hadn't spoken with grandchildren or children before filing the suit?
Mrs. Jackson: Yes (ABC7)

Putnam asked if it was before or after the criminal trial of Dr. Murray. She said she did not remember. Mrs. Jackson was at the criminal trial almost every day. (ABC7)

Putnam: Is it fair to say the criminal trial didn't play in this lawsuit?
Panish: Objection, attorney/client privilege. (ABC7)

Putnam: Is there anything you thought about other than the discussion with your attorneys that you consider in deciding to bring lawsuit?
Mrs. Jackson: Before the Conrad Murray trial? I don't remember
There's no dispute as to the dates of Murray's criminal trial, Panish said. (ABC7)

Putnam asked if she provided any documents to her attorneys to give to them (defendants)?
Panish: Objection -- attorney-client privilege (ABC7)

Mrs. Jackson said "yes." Putnam understood she was answering yes to him. "I'm not saying yes for you," she responded. Everyone laughed. At this point, Mrs. Jackson spoke quietly to the judge and judge decided to end the day short, since she was too tired to continue. (ABC7) Questioning of Michael Jackson's mother has been suspended after a judge determined she needed a break for the weekend. Katherine Jackson testified for about 10 minutes in an afternoon session before Superior Court Judge Yvette Palazuelos questioned whether she could continue. (AP) Mrs. Jackson testified for about 10 mins before judge recessing for the weekend. The judge conferred with Mrs. Jackson after she had difficulty answering several questions from Putnam. (AP)

 

[ivy]

Jacksons vs AEG - Day 53 – July 22 2013 – Summary

Katherine Jackson Testimony


AEG Cross


Putnam explained to Mrs. Jackson about the discovery process, where both sides have to exchange documents related to the case. (ABC7)

Putnam asked two lines of questions _ about how she came to file the lawsuit and what documents she turned over in discovery. Putnam asked whether Katherine Jackson turned over emails or records of her son’s payments to her. She said no. Katherine Jackson’s attorney Brian Panish objected to the questions, but the judge allowed them. Panish said Mrs. Jackson doesn’t use email. Mrs. Jackson said her son paid for most of her expenses directly. He gave her cash, but she didn’t keep records of it. Putnam asked about Mrs. Jackson’s assistant, Janice Smith, questioning whether she logged payments from MJ. Answer was no. Katherine Jackson: “My son took care of me. He paid for everything. Food. Shelter. Clothing.” (AP)

Mrs. Jackson said MJ would give her money in cash, but she would not write down the amounts. The matriarch has a secretary, Janice Smith, who works for her for anywhere between 15-20 years. She has an office in Encino, CA (ABC7)

Putnam asking about the house in Gary, Indiana. It's been 44 years since she left and moved in to the Hayvenhurst house. Mrs. Jackson lives now in a gated community in Calabasas. Hayvenhurst house is under renovation. (ABC7)

At times her anger toward AEG attorney Marvin Putnam flared, and she refused to answer some questions. Putnam tried to parry with her at least once. She had a hard time recalling how long her assistant had worked for her but corrected Putnam over how long it had been since she had lived in Gary, Indiana. After a small portion of her deposition was shown to the jury, her temper erupted.“Why are you doing this to me?" she asked. "You’re asking me the same question 50 times, but you’re just rephrasing them." (LaTimes)

. "It was a gift," Mrs. Jackson said about the money she received from Michael. Putnam asked if she reported/recorded anywhere. "My son took care of me, food, shelter, clothes," Mrs. Jackson explained. "When he gave me cash, it was a gift, I didn't think I needed to report to anyone," Mrs. Jackson said. Putnam asked again if there was any record of the money MJ gave her. She replied she didn't think she needed to. (ABC7)

Putnam asked if Mrs. Jackson had a bank account back in 2010 when she filed her lawsuit. She said she doesn't recall. (ABC7)

Regarding Michael having money problems, Mrs. Jackson said : "My son made a lot of money, he had people working for him."
Putnam: Where you aware MJ was having financial difficulties when he passed away? Mrs. Jackson: Yes, I've heard from some people
"They have been saying it for 15 years," Mrs. Jackson said. "People were taking money from him also, stealing I should say."
Mrs. Jackson testified she heard stories about it. Putnam: Who did you hear that from? Mrs. Jackson: Just different people
She also said MJ told her too that people were making deals on his behalf.
"They were being offered money under the table, that's what I heard from my son," Mrs. Jackson testified. And Mrs. Jackson asked: "What does this have to do with the death of my son?"
Putnam: You heard about MJ having money problems? Mrs. Jackson: I heard for years Michael Jackson was broken and he wasn't
Putnam: Did you ever ask MJ about having money problems? Mrs. Jackson: No, because I didn't believe it. Because he wasn't. (ABC7)

Putnam also asked Katherine Jackson about her son's payments to her over the years. She said he directly paid many of the expenses on her home and would occasionally give her cash as a gift. Katherine Jackson said she didn't keep track of the payments and appeared to grow annoyed at the questions. "What does this have to do with the death of my son," she asked Putnam. (AP) Putnam asked Mrs. Jackson whether she was aware of her son’s financial difficulties before his death. She said yes. Katherine Jackson: "They’ve been saying for years, last 15 years that Michael Jackson is broke." She said she knew that wasn't true. (AP)

Putnam asked several more questions about what Katherine Jackson knew about her son Michael’s financial situation. There were objections. At one point, Mrs. Jackson told Puntam, “I think I answered that.” Judge allowed multiple questions about what she knew of MJ’s finances. Katherine Jackson said she was aware of people trying to make deals on her son’s behalf. She said her son would sometimes tell her about it. She said through the years, she heard about people taking money from her son. “Stealing, I should say.” Putnam again asked about the stories she’d heard. “I’d heard for years that Michael Jackson was broke, and he wasn’t,” she said. Katherine Jackson said she never discussed it with her son because she knew he wasn’t broke. (AP)

"I don't want to get into this," she said when asked about her superstar son's finances. The lawyer for AEG Live reminded Katherine that it was his job to ask questions because she wants a mountain of money for the claim AEG negligently hired Dr. Conrad Murray, the personal physican now serving four years for overdosing her son. (NYDailyNews)

Putnam asked about the damages Mrs. Jackson asked for in her lawsuit. MJ's mother responded that he could ask her attorneys about it. (ABC7) Putnam then asked Mrs. Jackson about the amount of damages she was seeking from AEG Live. “You can talk to my lawyer about that,” Katherine Jackson said of the damages estimates. Putnam cited figure of $1.5-$1.7 billion. Panish objected and said it was improper to ask Katherine Jackson about the estimates. The attorneys went into a sidebar with the judge. When they returned, Putnam asked about Mrs. Jackson whether she’d heard about various claims of damages. She said yes. (AP) Putnam asked if Mrs. Jackson has been here most of the days over the past 12 weeks. (ABC7)

That’s when Putnam asked Mrs. Jackson whether she thought her son bore any responsibility for his death. “No, I don’t,” she replied. Putnam asked Mrs. Jackson if she agreed that she never believed her son was responsible for his death. “Correct,” she replied. (AP)

Putnam: Do you believe that your son is in any way responsible for his passing? Mrs. Jackson: No I don't
Putnam: You never believed your son had any part in his own death? Mrs. Jackson: Correct!
Putnam: Do you believe your son MJ knew Dr. Murray was giving him Propofol? Panish: Objection, calls for speculation
Putnam: Do you remember MJ asking for Propofol? Panish: Calls for hearsay response
Putnam: Did you hear from the criminal trial that your son asked Dr. Murray to give him Propofol? Mrs. Jackson: I have heard
Mrs. Jackson said she had not heard that MJ asked other doctors for Propofol. Putnam asked if that came to a surprise for her. She said yes. "Conrad Murray, even if he asked, he could've said no," Mrs. Jackson opined. (ABC7) Katherine Jackson said she believes AEG Live hired Murray, not her son. She said she never heard of the cardiologist until her son died, and indicated that she felt Murray bore responsibility for her son's death."Even though he asked for it, he could have said no," Katherine Jackson said of Murray. (AP)

Putnam asked about Murray’s criminal case, and whether Mrs. Jackson helped the prosecutor, David Walgren. She said she didn’t remember. (AP) When questioned by AEG lead counsel Marvin Putnam, she "did not remember" if she attended Murray's manslaughter trial and assisted the prosecution in that case. (NBC)

The lawyer asked about what Mrs. Jackson recalled hearing during the criminal trial about her son’s use of propofol. She said she remembered hearing about him asking for the drug, but she didn’t recall testimony about him discussing it with other doctors. Katherine Jackson had her head down during some of the questions. “Even though he asked for it, he could have said no,” she said of Murray. (AP)

Putnam: Do you believe your son hired Dr. Murray? Mrs. Jackson: No I don't
Putnam: You heard testimony MJ hired Dr. Murray in Las Vegas? Mrs Jackson: He had doctors for his children, I don't know if it was Dr Murray
Putnam asked if MJ ever paid Dr. Murray. She answered it was to treat the children.
Putnam asked if she heard testimony from Prince saying he would give Dr. Murray stacks of money in a rubber band.
"He didn't say stacks, he measure with his fingers," Mrs. Jackson explained.
Mrs. Jackson said she doesn't believe that MJ hired Dr. Murray because of what she's been listening here in court. She said from hearing the emails, AEG said they had hired him and that Randy Phillips went on TV saying they hired him.
Mrs. Jackson: I had heard they had hired and there was the doctor there so I thought MJ had hired him, not knowing the facts. (ABC7)

Putnam asked how she remembers it when she said her memory wasn't very good. "I didn't say I didn't remember anything, I said I'm 83, I would 't remember everything," Mrs. Jackson responded. Mrs Jackson said that's all that's been talked about in the trial and that she remembers emails, Phillips' interview saying AEG hired Murray (ABC7) Despite the fact that she is “83-year-old and may not remember everything clearly,” Katherine testified that she distinctly remembers that AEG hired Murray--not her son. (NBC) Katherine also said she did not know that her son used Propofol and that he gave Murray money "because he felt bad for [him] because he didn't have no money--not because he had hired him." She had no idea the doctor spent six nights a week at her son's home. (NBC)

Putnam then asked Mrs. Jackson whether she believed her son hired Conrad Murray. She said she didn’t think he hired the doctor. She said she knew her son had doctors for his children. She said she didn’t know if that was Murray or not. Putnam asked about Prince Jackson’s testimony that he’d given Murray money that his father handed him. Putnam called it “stacks of hundreds” Katherine Jackson corrected him, saying it wasn’t stacks. She said the money was because her son felt bad for the doctor. Putnam asked Mrs. Jackson whether she knew about the payments to Murray before the trial. She said no. Putnam then asked her about an instance in which Mrs. Jackson said she thought her son Michael hired Conrad Murray. Katherine Jackson: “I may have said it once and you’ll probably bring that up.” (Her statement was during a Dateline interview.) Putnam wants to play the Dateline interview, but Panish objected, saying he hadn’t seen it. Judge told Putnam to hold off on playing the Dateline interview for the jury until it could be reviewed. Katherine Jackson said he now understood that AEG Live had hired Murray, but she hadn’t heard that before. “At the time I hadn’t heard it,” Katherine Jackson said. “I thought that maybe Michael had hired him. I said it not knowing the facts.” Putnam indicated the Dateline interview was done 8 weeks before Katherine Jackson filed her lawsuit in September 2010. (AP)

Putnam: Do you recall why you said your son hired the doctor and that your son could've prevented his own death?
"I don't think he could've prevented his own death," Mrs. Jackson testified. "I just said I thought he hired the doctor. I do recall that."
Mrs. Jackson said she can't recall exactly what was said in the Dateline interview, but she does remember saying MJ hired the doctor. (ABC7)

Mrs. Jackson said she had not heard about Dr. Murray prior to MJ's death. Her son did not discuss what treatments he was having with her.
Putnam: Prior to your son's death, did you know your son had a doctor spending the night at the house? Mrs. Jackson: No
Putnam: Did you ever have conversation with your grandchildren prior to trial about the doctor spending the night at the house? She said no
Putnam asked if Prince testified a doctor was spending the nights at the house. Mrs. Jackson: I don't remember him saying that
Putnam: Do you remember him (Prince) saying he (the doctor) spent 6 nights a week? Mrs. Jackson: No, I don't remember that (ABC7)
Putnam also grilled Katherine on the timing of her lawsuit, which was filed a year before Murray's 2011 criminal trial. "Prior to the trial...did you ever talk to your grandchildren about the fact that Dr. Murray treated Michael Jackson upstairs in a bedroom behind locked doors," Putnam asked. "No," she replied. "Mrs. Jackson, you do believe that Dr. Conrad Murray has some responsibility for your son's death, do you not?" he asked. "Of course," she said. (NYDailyNews)

Putnam asked Mrs. Jackson whether she knew that Conrad Murray was staying at her son’s mansion 6 nights a week in 2009. She said she didn’t know anything about her son’s doctors. Putnam asked if she discussed with her grandchildren, and she said no. Katherine Jackson’s brow was furrowed through this questioning. Panish objected, saying Putnam was trying to get into attorney-client issues. Putnam was allowed to question her about her knowledge of Murray’s doctor visits, as long as Mrs. Jackson didn’t relay any info that she received from conversations with her attorneys. (AP)

Putnam asked Mrs. Jackson's search for the truth and if she thought it would be important to know whether the doctor spending the nights. "It would've been important but I told you I didn't talk to my grandchildren about that," Mrs. Jackson responded. Putnam asked if Mrs. Jackson talked to her grandchildren about Dr. Murray treating MJ in a locked, upstairs bedroom. She answered no. (ABC7)

Putnam: You do believe Dr. Murray has some responsibility for your son's death? Mrs. Jackson: Of course
Putnam asked Mrs. Jackson if Dr. Murray was convicted in the criminal trial. She said yes.
He asked if the doctor is now in jail. "I hope he is," she responded. (ABC7)

Putnam inquired about Mrs. Jackson asking the District Attorney to drop the $100 million restitution against Dr. Murray. Mrs. Jackson said yes, that Dr. Murray has children and has no money. "Because I felt his children needed him to take care of them," she explained. "He didn't have any money."
Putnam: You asked the DA to drop the $100 million restitution claim against Dr. Murray?
Mrs. Jackson: I asked them to drop it because of his children, he has quite a few children, 7 or 8, I don't know.
Mrs. Jackson said she believes the DA may have dropped the $100 million restitution claim.
Putnam: Did you drop the restitution claim so you could file this lawsuit? Mrs. Jackson: No (ABC7)

She said she asked prosecutors to drop a $100 million restitution claim against Murray because he has several children. "His money should go to the children," she said. (AP) Going back to updates from the morning session. Putnam asked Mrs. Jackson about dropping the $100 million restitution claim against Murray. Mrs. Jackson said, “I felt that his children needed it.” She mentioned she knew Murray had 7 or 8 children. Putnam questioned whether the decision was made in consideration of the civil case. Mrs. Jackson said no. “I never gave it a thought.” (AP)

The lawyer then asked whether Mrs. Jackson ever saw her son when she thought he was under the influence of any drug. She said no. (AP) Putnam asked if Mrs. Jackson ever saw MJ under the influence of any drug. She said no, that it's something she never saw during his lifetime.She would show up at the house unannounced and said she never saw her son "loopy".
Putnam: Did you ever speak with your son on the phone when he was out of it? Mrs. Jackson: No. Out of what?
Putnam asked if Mrs. Jackson's children told her MJ was under the influence of something. She said yes.
"A couple of children came to me and told me they had heard about it," Mrs. Jackson said. She had conversation w/ MJ about it in Las Vegas. (ABC7)

She provoked laughter when answering a question about whether her son had ever seemed "out of it" when she spoke to him on the phone. "Out of what?" she said, before Putnam explained the meaning of the phrase. (AFP)

Putnam asked Mrs. Jackson is she remembers her son's criminal trial in 2005. She said yes, and that she attended the trial every day. Putnam inquired if MJ left the country after the trial. She said yes. When MJ came back he lived in Las Vegas never lived in Neverland again. Mrs. Jackson spoke with Michael about what she heard of him using prescription drugs. "I've heard that something had happened to him," Mrs. Jackson described. (ABC7)

Putnam: When you said that, he denied it, right? Mrs. Jackson: Yes he did"I was his mother, I imagined he'd deny it," Mrs. Jackson explained. "No child is going to admit it, if I heard something bad about them." Mrs. Jackson said she didn't know MJ was taking pain pills, she couldn't prove it, that's what she had heard. Mrs. Jackson: It didn't surprise me, I'm the mother, he would not want his mother to worry about him. Putnam: If you knew your son was going to deny it, why did you ask him? Mrs. Jackson: I'm not answering that question. Because to me it doesn't make sense. I didn't know he was going to deny it. "It's because he didn't want me to worry," Mrs. Jackson said. "I just talked to him about it." Mrs. Jackson to Putnam: I don't think it's that serious that you have to drill it like that on me. Mrs. Jackson: My child, he respected his mother he didn't want to hurt if it was bad.Putnam: He wasn't a child but 50 years old? Mrs Jackson: He was still my child, I'm still his mother and he wants to hold his respect for me.Mrs. Jackson: You're just trying to confuse me so that you can come back with something. Mrs. Jackson: You do understand (the answer) and you keep asking the same question. (ABC7)

Putnam continued to ask a series of questions about Jackson’s prescription drug use and his denials. Putnam: “If you knew your son was going to deny it, why did you ask him?”
Mrs. Jackson: “I’m not answering that question.”
Putnam: “Why?”
“To me, it doesn’t make sense,” Katherine Jackson said. “I didn’t know he was going to deny it. But he did it.”
After a few more questions, Mrs. Jackson told Putnam she didn’t have to either “drill me” or “grill me” like this. She likened her son’s denial to a young child who went out and disobeyed his mother and then denied it. “I’m sure you understand,” she said. “He respects his mother, he don’t want her to think that he’s doing something that bad,” Mrs. Jackson said. “He’s still my child,” she replied. She added, “He’d still want me to hold his respect.” (AP)

There were more questions about Michael Jackson’s prescription drug use. Putnam said he was trying to understand the testimony. “You keep asking the same questions and I’ve answered it,” Mrs. Jackson said. Putnam asked if there was ever a time she believed her son was abusing prescription meds. “No,” she said. “I knew he was taking it. I didn’t think he was abusing it,” Katherine Jackson said about her son Michael's prescription drug use. (AP)

The attorney also asked about Katherine Jackson about conversations she had with her son about prescription drug use. She said she asked him about it when he lived in Las Vegas and he denied he was abusing prescription medications. "I'm a mother, quite naturally he denied it," she said. "He wouldn't want me to think that." She said she was aware her son took medications for pain in his back and scalp after he sustained injuries over his career. She said she never saw signs that her son was abusing medications, including when she and several of her children went to the singer's Neverland Ranch for an intervention. Her son was fine but upset that they thought he had a problem.(AP) He also quizzed her at length about a family "intervention" in 2002, when she and various children including Janet and Rebbie went to confront Jackson about his reported drug problems at his Neverland ranch. But the confrontation came to nothing, she said, after the singer appeared upset when he realized why they were there. "We just saw that he was okay and he was upset, so we didn't talk about it," she said. (AFP)

Katherine also recalled joining her daughter Janet and other relatives for a surprise intervention at Neverland Ranch in 2002. She said Michael was upset by the intrusion and appeared to be sober. "There were no deep discussion or anything like that. When we got there, he was okay, he was upset," she recalled. "It was kind of embarassing." (NYDailyNews)

Asked about reports that she and her other children had staged an intervention effort at Michael’s Neverland Ranch in Santa Barbara County in 2002, Katherine Jackson testified that her son didn't know why his family had driven there and made it sound as if the visit had turned into a social gathering.“We just saw he was OK and was upset, and ... there was no deep discussion or anything," she said under questioning.She said that neither she nor her other children questioned the singer about his use of prescription medication. (LAtimes)

Mrs. Jackson was asked about the 2002 intervention attempt at Neverland Ranch. Mrs. Jackson said her son was fine. “When we got there, there was nothing wrong with him,” Mrs. Jackson said. She said he was upset that his family came for an intervention, but there wasn't any “deep discussion” about it. Putnam asked about Katherine Jackson’s deposition, when she recalled her son saying, “’I’m not on it.’” Today, Katherine Jackson said she didn’t recall whether he said that phrase or not. “I wasn’t trying to lie,” she said. “I was just tired of you,” Katherine Jackson said of Putnam. Mrs. Jackson said she recalled Putnam “asking me the same question about 50 times and rephrasing them differently.” (AP)

Testifying for the second day in her family's wrongful-death suit against entertainment giant AEG Live, the family matriarch said the conversation occurred as she was getting ready to leave her son's house in Las Vegas, where Michael Jackson lived from 2006 to 2008. She said she told Michael that she had heard he was using prescription drugs and that she didn't want him to end up "like all the others." On the stand Monday, Katherine Jackson said she knew her son was using prescription pain pills for burns he suffered to his scalp during the filming of a Pepsi commercial and for a back injury and said that she figured he would deny any drug abuse because he didn't want her to worry. "If a child goes out to play and does something real ugly, and a parent asks them about it, he’s gong to deny it,” she said.
“If you knew your son was gong to deny it, why did you ask him?” Putnam asked. “I’m not answering that question ... because to me it doesn’t make sense," Jackson said."I didn't know he was gong to deny it, but he did.” (LAtimes)

Katherine Jackson said he denied abusing pain pills during their one and only private conversation on the topic in Las Vegas. The famous music matriarch lost her cool when a lawyer for the concert promoter she's suing for more than $1 billion asked her repeatedly about the date and details of the mother-son meeting in Vegas. "I'm not answering that question," she shot back at one query she felt "didn't make sense." She then accused the lawyer of intentionally trying to trap over the exact wording of the confrontation. "You're just getting me confused so you'll have something to come back on," the 83-year-old said sternly. (NYDailyNews)

Mrs. Jackson mentioned that her other children told her they believed Michael Jackson had a problem with prescription meds. Putnam then asked about Mrs. Jackson’s conversation with her son in Las Vegas regarding his prescription drug use. Katherine Jackson said she and her son stepped into a theater at the home that was near the front door and talked about it. She said she asked him about his prescription medication use. Mrs. Jackson said her son denied he had a problem. Katherine Jackson: “I’m a mother, quite naturally he denied it. He wouldn't want me to think that.” (AP)

Putnam: Has there ever been a time you believe your son was abusing prescription drugs? Mrs. Jackson: No
"I believe he was taking it, but I don't believe he was abusing it" Mrs Jackson said. "I just asked him the question, I wanted to make sure". Even tough Mrs. Jackson didn't believe MJ was abusing prescription drugs she was part of an intervention at Neverland. She doesn't remember all the siblings present, but probably Janet, Rebbie and Randy were there. She said there was a person who came along that Janet brought specialized in intervention. Putnam: Do you recall this taking place in 2002? Mrs. Jackson: Yes Mrs. Jackson said she doesn't believe MJ knew why they were there. Putnam asked if MJ was mad they came for an intervention. Mrs. Jackson: Yes, because when we got there, there was nothing wrong with him"We asked if he was okay, he got upset and we didn't talk about it," Mrs. Jackson explained. "He didn't deny anything, he was ok," Mrs. Jackson said. There was no deep discussion, we got there and he was ok, he was upset." Mrs. Jackson: It was kind of embarrassing, because they didn't see anything. Putnam asked if Mrs. Jackson saw him upset. "If I said he was upset, I did see it," she responded. Putnam: After he got upset, did he say to you "I'm not on it, I'm not on anything?" Mrs. Jackson: He didn't say that.Putnam played part of Mrs. Jackson's deposition where she said she knew MJ was upset, by the way he talked, said "I'm not on it," that's all.Putnam asked if at the intervention MJ denied he was on influence of prescription drugs? Mrs. Jackson: To tell you the truth, I don't know.Mrs. Jackson said she was upset with Putnam during deposition. "I was just tired of you asking the same question 50 times in different ways".Putnam: Do you remember in your deposition you didn't know whether to believe your son at all?. "I knew he was on prescription drugs, but he was not abusing it," Mrs. Jackson said. After intervention at Neverland in 2002 Putnam asked if her mind changed about MJ abusing drugs. She said she didn't know one way or another (ABC7)

Katherine said that she never saw her son under the influence of drugs and never saw him “loopy, or out of it," even on the telephone. But, after her other children told her they believed he was addicted to prescription drugs and Michael denied it to her, she participated in an intervention at the Neverland ranch in 2002. “I knew he was taking them (pain pills) but I didn’t know he was abusing them,” Katherine told the jury. She said Michael was upset when the family staged the intervention "because when we got there, there was nothing wrong with him.” The intervention, she added, didn't really take place because he was upset and yelled at them and she became embarrassed to be there, she testified. (NBC)

Putnam showed a letter on People Magazine (Sept. 7, 2007) the family sent about MJ not addicted to pain killers and alcohol. Mrs. Jackson: We were not trying to take away the business or anything like that. That's a lie. Mrs. Jackson said she never attempted to take her son's business. Just because it's in the magazine tabloids doesn't make it true, she said."There are lies, these are all lies," Mrs. Jackson said. "We didn't try to take his business away." Tito, Marlon, Jackie, Jermaine, Katherine signed this letter. Putnam asked why she signed it if it wasn't true, she said I wanted it to stop.Mrs. Jackson: As far as the tabloids, I didn't waste my time because I know all they do is to try to make money
Putnam: Isn't it true your son MJ asked you to sign this? Mrs. Jackson: I don't remember my son asking me to sign this
Mrs. Jackson said she doesn't' remember MJ being involved in the draft of the letter. She doesn't know who asked her to sign it.
Putnam showed Mrs. Jackson Randy's deposition saying MJ asked her to sign the letter. She said it doesn't refresh her recollection about it. (ABC7)

She then was asked about an open letter to the media that she signed in 2007 along with several of Michael's siblings. It denied Michael had a drug problem and any history of a family intervention. "Why would you sign it if it wasn't true?" Putnam asked. "I wanted (to stop) things that weren't true," she said, appearing confused. (NYDailyNews)

Putnam asked Mrs. Jackson several questions about a letter she and other Jackson family members signed regarding an intervention. The letter was regarding reports about her son’s prescription drug use. I believe it was from 2007. Putnam at one point brought up Randy Jackson’s deposition and asked Mrs. Jackson if she had read any of her children’s depos. She said no. Putnam was able to show Mrs. Jackson her son Randy’s deposition after saying he would call him as a witness later. Depo wasn’t shown to jury (AP)

AEG's lawyer showed Katherine an open letter to the media she signed and released in 2007 denying there was ever a family intervention and also denying that Michael Jackson was addicted to drugs and alcohol. The lawyer also played a 2010 Oprah interview in which Katherine admitted that Michael was an addict. (AP)

Putnam asked Mrs. Jackson if she was aware of her son’s statement at the end of the “Dangerous” tour indicating a prescription drug problem. She said she hadn’t heard about it or seen it before it was played in court. She said she didn’t watch much television. Putnam: “Mrs. Jackson on Friday, you mentioned that you shut your ears to bad things. Do you remember saying that?” “I probably said it, but I don’t remember saying it,” Mrs. Jackson said, adding, “I don’t like to hear bad news.” Putnam asked if Mrs. Jackson shut out hearing bad news about her son ending the Dangerous tour. She said she didn't remember how it ended. (AP)

Putnam: Were you aware your son MJ had gone to rehab before?
Mrs. Jackson: I had heard that, that Elizabeth Taylor had something to do about drugs but I don't watch television that much.
Mrs. Jackson: My children probably didn't want me to know about it.
Mrs. Jackson said she did not discuss with MJ about it and had never heard MJ's 1993 announcement he was going into rehab. MJ's mother said she never heard before tour had been canceled because of MJ's rehab. She said it doesn't mean it wasn't but she didn't know (ABC7)

On Monday, she seemed unfamiliar with some of the details of Michael’s life. She told the court she didn’t know her son's "Dangerous" tour had come to an early ending in 1993 when Elizabeth Taylor flew to Mexico City to take the singer to a rehab program in London.
Katherine Jackson testified that she’d she heard that Taylor had said something about her son going into rehab but didn't seem particularly curious about it.“Nobody came to me and said anything about it," she said. "My children probably didn’t want me to worry.”She said she didn't know that her son’s worldwide tour had been cut short. "I don't like to hear bad news," she said. (LATimes)

Putnam asked about whether she shut her ears to bad things. "I may have said that but I don't remember," Mrs. Jackson responded. Mrs. Jackson: I don't like hearing bad news. (ABC7)

Putnam asked about the attempted intervention in 2002. He asked about Dr. Farshchian treating MJ's addiction to Demerol. Mrs. Jackson said he doesn't recall Dr. Farshchian and does not recall any phone call with any doctor about MJ's addiction to Demerol. Putnam showed Mrs. Jackson transcript of Dr. Farshchian's deposition and asked if that refreshed her recollection. She said it doesn't. Putnam asked if Dr. Farshchian testified he spoke with her because she wanted to know all the details of her son's Demerol use. "I don't remember who Dr. Farshchian is and I don't remember treating Michael for Demerol," Mrs. Jackson said.
Putnam: Do you remember testimony about MJ having an implant to treat Demerol? Mrs. Jackson: I don't know anything about that
Mrs. Jackson said she doesn't remember discussing the implant in 2002. Mrs. Jackson said she does not remember MJ showing her a Narcan patch. (ABC7)

After the lunch break, Putnam asked about an implant that Michael Jackson apparently had to keep any addiction to Demerol in check. Putnam asked Mrs. Jackson if she ever saw the implant or talked to the doctor who put it in her son. Mrs. Jackson said she didn’t remember. Katherine Jackson said she didn't recall the doctor and didn't remember seeing the implant. She said she would have remembered seeing it. (AP)

As to Louis Farrakhan -- she met him, but doesn't remember seeing him at Neverland. (ABC7)

Putnam asked if Mrs Jackson knows there were a number of doctors who testified in this case. She said she didn't know, didn't see deposition (ABC7)

Putnam asked Mrs. Jackson about a Nov. 2010 interview with Oprah Winfrey. After a few questions, Putnam played the clip. In the clip, she said she was aware her son was taking prescription meds after his Pepsi commercial accident, but it was a long time before she heard he was addicted to them. She also discussed an intervention attempt by her children. Oprah asked Mrs. Jackson about her conversation with her son and asked if she believed his denials. She told Oprah she didn't believe him. In court, Katherine Jackson clarified. “I kind of believed him and I didn't believe him. I didn't know what to believe,” she said. (AP)

Putnam asked if she recalls sitting down for interview with Oprah Winfrey in the fall of 2010. Mrs. Jackson said yes.Oprah's interview aired about a month after the the lawsuit was filed. She watched it when it aired at the Hayvenhurst house. Putnam: Did you try to tell the truth in that interview? Mrs. Jackson: YesPutnam: You said you believed your son was addicted to drugs? Mrs. Jackson: I told Oprah that.Mrs. Jackson: I told you MJ was on painkillers, but I don't think he was abusing it.In Oprah's interview, Mrs. Jackson said it was a long time before she knew MJ was addicted to painkillers. She also said about the family's attempted intervention: the children told her to take MJ to rehab and kind of clean him up. Mrs. Jackson told Oprah she didn't want to hear MJ had overdosed. MJ kept saying he wasn't on it, and that his own mother didn't believe him.Mrs. Jackson: I kind of believe it and didn't believe it, hearing from my children, hearing from other people. "I didn't know what to believe," Mrs. Jackson said. Mrs. Jackson conceded she denied this morning that her son was abusing drugs. (ABC7)

Putnam: Do you think your son was abusing painkillers? Mrs. Jackson: I don't know. "I didn't know what to believe," she said. "I went to Neverland because my children kept asking me and I was concerned." Putnam: Was there a time you were concerned with MJ using painkillers? Mrs. Jackson: I can't say I weren't concerned.Putnam: Was there any time during the criminal trial that you were concerned MJ was under the influence of something? Mrs. Jackson: No (ABC7) Putnam asked whether during her son’s criminal trial whether she ever thought her son was on medications. She said no. (AP)

Katherine Jackson said she never discussed any concerns about her son's medication use with his lawyers or managers. Katherine Jackson said she occasionally talked to Jackson’s managers, including Frank Dileo. She wasn’t thrilled when Dileo came back. “They keep hiring all these people that Michael had fired. That’s what bothered me,” Katherine Jackson said. Putnam asked about the letter her son signed regarding Dileo. She said he told her he was only back in her son’s life for the tour. (AP) Mrs. Jackson said she never discussed with her son's attorneys or managers about her concerns.Mrs. Jackson said she had many conversations with Frank DiLeo and they were all friendly.She remembers answering the phone when Frank DiLeo went back to work for Michael. Mrs. Jackson wanted to know why people kept re-hiring people Michael had fired. Putnam asked if it was someone other than MJ who hired DiLeo. "I think so, Michael didn't want him back," she said. Mrs. Jackson: Michael and DiLeo told me he was back for the This Is It tour. (ABC7)

Katherine Jackson said she never relayed any concerns about her son’s prescription drug use to anyone at AEG Live. (AP)

Putnam: Did you tell Mr. DiLeo you were concerned that your son was abusing painkillers? Mrs. Jackson: No, since he had just come back
Mrs. Jackson said she never told AEG Live or Randy Phillips about MJ having drug problem. (ABC7)

Mrs. Jackson testified she was receiving money from MJ and also from Janet Jackson. At first, it was not on a monthly basis, but it became that way, Mrs. Jackson explained. Janet sent her $10,000 a month. Mrs. Jackson said she was receiving that amount when MJ died. The money went to her assistant Janice at the office. Mrs. Jackson said she told Janet she didn't have to continue to send her money after MJ died. (ABC7)

Putnam then asked about financial support Janet Jackson was providing her mom. She was giving $10k a month to support her mother. This money was coming in for several years before Michael Jackson’s death, but Mrs. Jackson said she eventually told her daughter to stop. (AP)

Jackson redirect

Putnam ended his questioning, and Panish took over. He asked about Michael’s support. Mrs. Jackson said he was paying for her necessities. (AP)

In re-direct, Panish asked if before MJ died, was he paying for everything? Mrs. Jackson: Yes, paying for everything
Panish: Did you rely on him (MJ) for all necessities of life? Mrs. Jackson: Yes (ABC7)

Panish inquired if Putnam asked during deposition personal question? Mrs. Jackson: Yes, he asked 'did your husband beat you'? (ABC7)

Panish: Farrakhan and Nation of Islam, does that have anything to do with your son's death? Mrs. Jackson: No P: Were you upset? Mrs. J: Yes (ABC7)

Panish asked whether Mrs. Jackson used email or a computer. She said she was computer illiterate. He also asked Katherine Jackson if she was a lawyer or a private investigator. The answers were no, obviously. The lawyer asked who she hired to find out the truth about her son’s death. Mrs. Jackson said she hired Panish’s firm. (AP)


Mrs Jackson said she doesn't know anything about computers, it's not a lawyer or investigator. Her highest level of education is high school. Panish asked what she did to go about this case. "I hired your firm," Mrs. Jackson said. "Why," Panish asked. "I wanted to find out what really happened to my son," Mrs. Jackson responded. (ABC7)

Phillips and Gongaware never called/send card to Mrs. Jackson after MJ died, Mrs Jackson said. Kenny Ortega went to see her, she said. (ABC7)

Panish asked about testimony that AEG Live execs Randy Phillips and Paul Gongaware loved her son. She said they never called her to express their condolences. They never sent a card. Mrs. Jackson said Kenny Ortega did come to see her after her son’s death. (AP)
He asked her about emails that had been displayed in court, ones Panish said she never would have seen if not for the lawsuit. In response several of Panish’s questions, she said she didn't know her son was losing weight or tour workers thought he was deteriorating. “I learned it here in court,” Mrs. Jackson said of the emails, other details about her son’s health. (AP)

Panish: Did you know your son was sleep-deprived for 60 days? Mrs. Jackson: No, I didn't
Panish asked if she knew Hougdahl wrote an email to AEG that MJ was deteriorating in front of his eyes? Mrs. Jackson: No
Mrs. Jackson said she learned about MJ's condition in court, that AEG never told her MJ was deteriorating, paranoia, losing weight, rambling. "The could've called me, he was asking for his father, he was scared, he was asking for Joseph," Mrs. Jackson said, crying. (ABC7)

“They could have called me,” Mrs. Jackson said. “He was asking me for his father. My grandson told me that his daddy was nervous and scared” (AP) Clutching a tissue and hanging her head at times, Katherine Jackson said she didn't know the extent of her son's weakness until after the start of her trial against AEG Live LLC. "They watched him waste away," she said after her attorney cited several emails from top workers preparing for the "This Is It" shows. The messages described her son's condition as deteriorating and cited his inability to rehearse. "They could have called me," Katherine Jackson, 83, said. "He was asking me for his father. My grandson told me that his daddy was nervous and scared." (AP) She said if the family had known, Joe Jackson would have stepped in. “They watched him waste away,” she said of AEG’s execs. (AP)

After Panish asked about an email in which an AEG corporate lawyer called her son a freak, Mrs. Jackson was crying. (AP)

Panish: Did AEG ever tell you they called your son a freak? Mrs. Jackson: No P: And that it was creepy meeting your son? Mrs. J: No (crying).Mrs. Jackson: They were there, without calling somebody. My husband and I would have been there in a second (crying)."They watched him waste away and waited, I know they did it," Mrs. Jackson said, crying. Panish showed picture of MJ in June 09 and asked if she ever saw her son like that. "Never," said Mrs. Jackson crying, wiping her eyes. (ABC7) She also said that she didn't see a photograph of her son shot six days before her his death until after the trial started. Katherine Jackson at first didn't seem to want to look at the photo, which has been repeatedly displayed during the trial and shows her son wearing a T-shirt, his arms thin and bones visible in his upper chest. (AP) Panish showed Mrs. Jackson the picture of her son taken on June 19th in which he looks extremely thin. She looked away at first. Panish asked if she’d ever seen her son look like that. “Never,” Katherine Jackson replied. (She’d never seen the photo before the trial.) (AP)

Mrs. Jackson was asked about the $100 million restitution figure. She said she didn't set the amount, but told the DA not to pursue it. (AP) Panish: Issue of restitution was the state decision and you told them not to do it, correct? Mrs. Jackson: Yes. Panish asked if the figure for restitution was set by the state. Mrs. Jackson said yes. (ABC7)


AEG recross

Putnam then took over questioning again. He showed the clip from the Dateline show that was discussed before lunch. (AP) In re-cross, Putnam showed a video where Mrs. Jackson said "It could've been prevented, he hired a doctor to take care of him." (ABC7)

Putnam asked if Mrs. Jackson talked to her grandchildren about Dr. Murray in search of the truth."I could, but I didn't want to bring that up with them," Mrs. Jackson answered. Putnam asked if Mrs. Jackson spoke with Sister Rose, the kids' nanny. "She told me that MJ was very weak, and she told me that she talked about what went down at the practice, they had to hold him up" she said. Mrs. Jackson doesn't know why Sister Rose is called sister and Brother Michael is brother. (ABC7)

an attorney for AEG Live had questioned why the Jackson family matriarch —if her purpose for filing the lawsuit was to find out the truth about her son's death, as she had testified — hadn't read through thousands of pages of deposition testimony, or asked her grandchildren about what happened in her son's rented mansion before his June 2009 death. She later said that while she could have asked her grandchildren about some issues, she didn't want to bring it up with them. (AP)

Putnam: Did I say anything improper in the deposition regarding the Nation of Islam? Mrs. Jackson: You were asking me question about it (ABC7)

He then asked Mrs. Jackson if she had ever met Paul Gongaware. She said she hadn't. “No, but that shouldn’t have stopped him from saying, ‘I’m sorry for what happened to your son,’” she said. (AP) Putnam asked if Mrs. Jackson knows Gongaware. "No, but that shouldn't have stopped him, to say I'm sorry what happened to your son" she said (ABC7)

Putnam asked if AEG put together a Memorial Service for MJ. She said yes. Mrs. Jackson said AEG told her if she did the memorial service at the Staples Center it would be free (she wanted to do it at the Coliseum) (ABC7) Putnam asked about the Staples Center memorial service. Mrs. Jackson said she wanted to hold it at the LA Coliseum, which is much bigger. She said she was told that if it was held at the Staples Center, the family wouldn't have to pay for it. (AP)

Jackson redirect

Panish took over again and asked Mrs. Jackson whether she received condolence cards from strangers. She said she got 1000s of them. (AP) In re-re-direct, Panish asked: They still didn't send a card, did they? Mrs. Jackson: No. Thousands and thousands of people sent her card. (ABC7)

She's a Jehovah's Witness and there's a difference between her religion and the Nation of Islam. (ABC7)

Regarding the interview, Mrs. Jackson said she just assumed, she didn't know whether MJ had hired Dr. Murray. (ABC7) Panish played the clip of Randy Phillips in which he was interviewed by Sky News a few days after Michael Jackson’s death. Phillips said in the interview that that Dr. Murray was hired by AEG at the request of Michael Jackson. (AP) Panish showed video of Phillips saying they hired him. Panish: Did Sister Rose discuss with you about AEG pressuring MJ? Mrs. Jackson: Yes (ABC7)

Panish: There was a suggestion in this trial you hired Kai Chase back so she can testify in your favor? Mrs. Jackson: Kai Chase has been working for me not quite a year yet Panish: Did you hire Kai Chase so she would testify in your favor? Mrs. Jackson: No, not at all. The children knew her, they wanted her, that's why. (ABC7)


AEG recross

Putnam asked about why Katherine Jackson didn’t bring up what happened in the Carrolwood house with her grandchildren. Mrs. Jackson said she could have asked them, but didn’t bring it up with them. She also said she didn’t discuss it with Kai Chase. (AP)

In re-re-cross, Putnam inquired Phillips said 'we hired him' and Mrs. Jackson said 'Michael' hired him. Mrs. Jackson: Like I said, I didn't know who hired him at that time. Putnam said one of them was not right in their interview. Mrs. Jackson answered: "I'm not correct." (ABC7) Putnam said based on the clips showed in the Dateline interview and Phillips’ Sky News interview, someone was wrong about who hired Murray. Katherine Jackson said she was wrong in her interview, that she assumed her son had hired Conrad Murray. (AP)


Jackson redirect

Panish came back up one more time and asked whether Katherine Jackson expected the CEO of AEG Live to know who hired Murray. (AP) In re-re-re-direct, Panish asked: Who do you think it's in a better position to know who hired the doctor, you or the CEO of AEG? Mrs. Jackson: The CEO of AEG (ABC7)


--------------------------
Judge told jury we are now moving to defendants' case, even though plaintiffs have not yet rested their case in chief.

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John Meglen (AEG Witness) Testimony

AEG direct

AEG's attorney Jessica Stebbins Bina did direct examination.

John Meglen is a concert promoter, works at AEG Live, he's the president and CEO of Concerts West. Paul Gongaware is co-CEO of Concerts West with Meglen. He described his extensive background in the business. Meglen said he went to Veterinarian school initially. "I feel like I work with animals some times," he joked. (ABC7)

Bina talked about rivalry between AEG Live and Live Nation. Meglen said he doesn't think being the number 1 is necessarily a good thing. He explained it is the difference between quality and quantity. (ABC7)

When they created Concerts West, Meglen said their first tour was Andrea Bocelli. They promoted first tour of Mariah Carey. (ABC7)
Meglen worked with MJ prior to "This Is It" once. He was a consultant to a firm in Japan that promoted two MJ shows in 1986 around Christmas.Meglen watched both shows and said it was great. Marcel Avram was the promoter. They both sold half house, he said, which is half of the tickets available. Meglen said they hid he empty seats so it wouldn't show. Bina asked if Wikipedia was wrong in saying the shows were sold out. "I don't use Wikipedia as source for my business," Meglen said. (ABC7)

Meglen said he next met MJ in 2007 with Peter Lopez, MJ's attorney at the time at the Wynn Hotel in Las Vegas. The meeting was to let MJ know what AEG was about, Meglen said. Gongaware, Raymone Bain (MJ's manager), Lopez, MJ were present. MJ recognized Gongaware, Meglen said. He came out of the bedroom, "Whenever I see Paul Gongaware I know everything is going to be all right".Meglen said MJ asked Gongaware about Brigitte, his girlfriend at the time. They wanted MJ to choose them for a comeback tour. "He was very excited," Meglen said. "He was great, full of energy, seem taller, firm handshake, he was there, he was very, very excited." (ABC7)

Meglen said almost immediately Gongaware took the lead on the MJ's This Is It project, since he had prior experience with MJ. Meglen said the expense of the show production falls under the artist to pay.

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Outside the presence of jury, Panish said Deborah Chang spoke with Grace Rwamba's lawyer and he doesn't' know where she is. Plaintiffs want to bring Rwamba to testify before they rest their case. They still need to finish Ortega's testimony too.

 

[ivy]

Jacksons vs AEG - Day 54 – July 23 2013 – Summary

Katherine Jackson is not in court.


John Meglen (Co-CEO of Concerts West) Testimony


AEG direct

Meglen didn't have involvement in Michael Jackson's contract. He said after the initial meeting, there was a quiet period. Then they met again in ealry 2008 and began discussions of what to do and where to go with MJ's comeback tour. (ABC7)

Defense attorney Jessica Stebbins Bina is doing the questioning of Meglen. She asked him this morning about initial plans for “TII” shows. Meglen said London was the venue AEG Live considered most because it’s considered “the biggest concert market in the world.” He said AEG considered putting Jackson’s shows in Asia, possibly Shanghai or Tokyo. He noted Asia was a historically strong market for MJ. Meglen said Japan is still the stronger concert market. “You can generate a lot more revenue in Japan than in China,” he said. He said ultimately the economics of having Jackson do his shows in Asia didn’t work out. They couldn’t get a high enough ticket price there. North America was not an option, Meglen said, due to Jackson’s reputation here and controversies he'd had here. (AP)

The promoter said they considered London, the biggest market in the world, since it has a new, hot arena. He said the strength of artist's popularity is based on ticket sales, ticket sales of similar artists, record sales, radio time playing. "We did not want to start the tour in North America," Meglen said. Meglen: We weren't sure what the reaction, ticket sale would be in N America because of the historic stuff Michael had gone before in the US. Meglen said the other option was Asia, Japan especially. He has done a number of other tours in Asia. However, Meglen said the economics wasn't there for Asia, couldn't get a high enough ticket price in China. He said there are a lot of rich people in China, but a lot people with not as much money. eglen said MJ had sold stadium shows in London before, had a successful track record there. (ABC7)

The promoter said normally they talk about show net, what we call artist gross, is when discussing money. "You can't compare net of artists because they all spend differently on the road," Meglen said. The show net is where you determine the artist gross from, Meglen explained. (ABC7)

AEG Live executive John Meglen is back on the stand. He’s been testifying a lot about his experience in the concert promotion business. Meglen worked somewhat on the “This Is It” tour early on, looking at budgets and projections and doing some initial planning. Meglen wasn’t working on the tour day-to-day. He was handling other AEG Live shows while other execs were working on the “This Is It” shows. He said he attended one rehearsal and didn’t meet with Michael Jackson often. He was in an initial project discussion meeting in early 2007. Meglen said he never met Conrad Murray or reviewed the doctor’s draft contract. AEG Live’s attorneys want Meglen’s testimony to demonstrate that calculations by plaintiff’s damages expert Arthur Erk are off. (AP)

Meglen said he was not intimately involved in the budget tour and budget production, but has seen them and knows what a budget is. Meglen said he was aware of talks about a worldwide tour with MJ. Meglen: The London shows were the only approved shows from our standpoint at AEG. He explained that the only one that went thru the approval process was the London shows. It was a long way to the completion of the London shows, so Meglen said there was no urgency in figuring out where to go after that. Meglen would have to approve a worldwide budget, he said. And it all depended on the London shows success and their review. (ABC7)

Meglen said Paul Gongaware called Michael Jackson 'Mikey' because they knew each other. (ABC7)

The promoter said AEG advanced the money for "This Is It" tour. The superstar deals: the selling of tickets is kind of a given, Meglen said. So they get out of guarantee and get profit participation. "They are worried about what their shares are as opposed to guarantee," Meglen explained. This is the type of deal for Led Zeppelin, Elvis Presley, Neal Diamond, Meglen testified. (ABC7)

Meglen wasn't involved in the production of TII. He has never met Dr. Murray and has not seen any draft agreement between AEG and the doctor. Meglen said he has been involved in tours where a doctor was part of the production. He named Rolling Stones, Celine Dion, John Denver.
Bina: Is it worrisome to have a doctor come on tour?
Meglen responded no, not at all.
He said you're dealing with singers, sometimes you have a lot of dancers on shows, so doctors, physical therapists, chefs, not uncommon. (ABC7)

Meglen said he had never seen an AEG contract where the artist is required to rehearse. Meglen said Celine Dion's director was freaking out because she was not showing up for rehearsals. The rehearsal is more for the people around the artist, Meglen said. He said it is very common for artists to use TelePrompTers. Celine Dion, Meglen said, not only uses Teleprompter but has an ear piece with director speaking to her. (ABC7)

Meglen said he had one show in Las Vegas that didn't sell tremendously well and they had to shut down production early. No names mentioned. The promoter said the hotels in Las Vegas would not allow an artist to have a residency show with only 2 and 1/2 shows per week. He said the hotels want customers every night, so resident shows need to have a constant schedule and few days off. A residency show needs more than 2 and 1/2 shows per week to be able to pay expenses and make money, Meglen explained. He said the promoter would be able to survive with only 2 and 1/2 shows per week, but not the artist. Meglen said the average ticket price for a headliner show in Las Vegas currently is $100-$125. (ABC7)

An arena is an ambitious step to take the model of a Las Vegas show. Arena fits 50k-60k people, Meglen said. Meglen said he has put together a show idea for Las Vegas involving Michael Jackson, but not a residential show. Meglen: We proposed to the Estate a Michael Jackson Campus at the Planet Hollywood Hotel. Meglen: It'd involve artifacts in MJ exhibit, items from Neverland, 2 restaurants, nightclub and a theatrical show directed by Kenny Ortega. This was after Michael Jackson passed away. Meglen said this was never proposed before he died. Bina showed a document with an a structural outline with the concept of the Las Vegas show, possible partners and numbers. Meglen said they wanted to take this to another level, creating an entire campus as opposed to just a show and a boutique. Meglen said he became aware the Estate of MJ was in talks with Cirque du Soleil for a show in Vegas, which gave AEG a sense of urgency. The promoter said he got one meeting with the executor of MJ's Estate, John Branca, but they were already involved with Cirque du Soleil. Meglen: You run 10 years (in a residency show) and you hit a home run. Meglen said they were very interested in a MJ Las Vegas show. He said he made an offer as attractive of better than Cirque's proposal. Meglen said there was a guarantee of $60 million over 10 years. "The Estate told us they were not interested," Meglen said. (ABC7)

An AEG Live executive testified Tuesday that the firm offered Michael Jackson's estate a guarantee of $60 million over 10 years in a deal that included a Las Vegas theatrical show based on the pop star's songs. John Meglen said the proposal included a "Michael Jackson campus" at the Planet Hollywood Hotel that would have included the singer's artifacts, two restaurants, a nightclub and stores to sell merchandise. The show would have been directed by Kenny Ortega, the director of the ill-fated "This Is It" 50-concert comeback tour Jackson was preparing when he died in 2009. The AEG executive testified his company would have paid an additional $40 million to create the show. "The $40 million gets you to opening night," he said. Meglen, dressed in a dark blue suit and a white shirt open at the collar, said this would have been AEG's first shot at creating what he called a "conceptual show," rather than one where a live performer is the main attraction. Conceptual shows, he said, are riskier. “With the headliner, you have a certain track record of how many tickets they’re going to sell … but if you do a show based on Elton’s music or Celine’s music, it depends on how good the show is, I guess,” said Meglen referring to Elton John and Celine Dion, singers who have done extended runs at Las Vegas hotels. Meglen said that hearing that Cirque du Soleil was talking to the Jackson estate is what led AEG to make its pitch. He said they had a meeting with the estate's co-executor, John Branca, in his conference room. Meglen said AEG did a "B-minus, C-plus pitch. In my opinion, they were already down the road and they wanted to do the show with Cirque.” Meglen said AEG never made Jackson an offer for a conceptual show while he was alive. “We thought if we could create the show with Michael’s catalog that that could be very successful, but it’s risky,” Meglen said. (Latimes)

While Michael Jackson was alive, Meglen said the ideal would be to have the artist live as a residency show. But that wasn't an option. He said tribute shows don't do well when the artist is alive, since people want to see the actual performer. (ABC7)

Meglen said he probably has never proposed an India concert. "Nobody goes to India," Meglen said. Jacksons attorney objected saying Meglen has no experience in India. Judge sustained. (ABC7)

Meglen explained the stadiums normally don't allow sale of full capacity. The stage is big, when you sell all around is called 360 degrees. The projections the Jacksons expert produced is more than that, Meglen said. He estimated they would sell 220 degrees in MJ's shows. All stadiums and arenas have suites and the promoters and artists don't get to charge them, Meglen said. People buy the suites on an annual basis and it includes concerts. The building gets the money, not the promoter or artist. (ABC7)

Asked if Jackson would have been able to fill stadiums and arenas at 100 percent capacity had he lived long enough to conduct a worldwide tour, AEG Live co-CEO John Meglen testified that the answer was no. According to Meglen’s testimony, seats behind the stage or with obstructed views cannot be assigned to ticket holders. The only seats that can be sold are those with a view of the arrest on stage, a much smaller number than the total number of seats in the venue.(NBCLA)

Meglen said you can't put an arena show into a stadium, specially because of the size of the stage and the production. It's also much more expensive to do a stadium show, Meglen explained. (ABC7)

Rolling Stones had 59,000 people, the maximum capacity they could have at The Rose Bowl, Meglen said. The Rose Bowl is one of the biggest stadiums in the country and there is the idea that it fits 100k people, Meglen explained. "You're lucky if you can hit 60 (thousand)," Meglen said. (ABC7)

Bina shows another exhibit. There's dispute as to which exhibit has been admitted already or not. Judge sent jury to lunch. Outside the jury presence, Panish complained to the judge that AEG's attorney Jessica Bina handed over copies of exhibits to the jury. He said the proper procedure is to hand the documents to the clerk or bailiff and let them handle them to the jury. Panish said the attorneys should not have any contact with the jurors whatsoever. Bina said it was not her intention, apologized. (ABC7)

John Meglen resumed testimony in the afternoon. Bina showed him plaintiffs' Highest Grossing Tours chart created by Erk from Wikipedia data. Bina: Which tours you promoted all or portion of tour?
8- Rolling Stones
11- Celine Dion
12- Eagles
13- Pink Floyd
18- Bon Jovi
20- Bon Jovi
26- MJ HIStory
28- Pink
30- Bon Jovi
34- Britney Spears
35- Bon Jovi
37- Justin Timberlake
38- Paul McCartney(ABC7)

Meglen did 7 whole tour, 3 North America and 2-3 did some shows of the highest grossing shows. He said he's familiar with endorsements and sponsorship deals involving a tour. Meglen worked on two shows of MJ's HIStory tour. (ABC7)

Bina said there was a lot of testimony about the fast pace of sales of tickets. She asked if he has seen any other show sell that fast. Meglen: Yes, Voodoo Lounge, Division Bell we almost sold out immediately, we call instant sell outs. Meglen: Those were stadiums tours and when we put them on sale we rolled into multiple stadium dates, that's about as high as it gets. (ABC7)

Rolling dates means opening more dates based on demand, Meglen explained. He said initially 10 shows for TII was sold, then 31, 50.
Bina: Was this the best selling show you've ever seen in your career?
Meglen: No, because it was a relatively lower ticket price. We sold as many tickets on Voodoo Lounge as fast as we sold MJ.
"In numbers of tickets sold in a day, sure, we have done those kinds of numbers before," Meglen explained. Meglen said he negotiated a number of tour deals, from Beach Boys to Sunkist, Good Vibration deals. (ABC7)

Sponsor puts a name in an event, Meglen said. Endorsement is when product/company associates name with an artist, artist does commercials. Meglen said the Rolling Stones sponsorship with Citibank was $2.5 million, which is not near 42% of the gross revenue.
Bina: Was sponsorship 42%?
Meglen: No, there's no correlation, I've never heard anything like it
Meglen said there were no endorsements deal for the This Is It tour. Bina said she had no more questions at this time. (ABC7)


Jackson cross

North America was not an option, Meglen said, due to Jackson’s reputation here and controversies he'd had here. The lawyer asked about Meglen’s characterization of Jackson’s “This Is It” ticket sales and whether he agreed with his boss’ opinion. (AP)

Panish, in re-cross, asked: Is Paul Gongaware truthful?
Meglen: Very truthful
P: And Randy Phillips?
M: Yes (ABC7)

Panish: Do you agree with your boss' Phillips and Gongaware MJ was the greatest artist of all time?
Meglen: I don't know what their opinion was. I believe that they believe that.
Panish: Do I believe MJ was the biggest artist of all time?
Meglen: No, I do not
Panish: Who is?
Meglen: I think Michael is big in pop world, but in my opinion Rolling Stones and Led Zeppelin -- "I'm a rocker" (ABC7)

Panish asked Meglen to name bigger artists than Jackson. Meglen said Jackson was big in the pop world, but cited 2 rock acts as bigger. Meglen named the Rolling Stones and Led Zeppelin as bigger acts, explaining he’s “a rocker.” (AP)

Panish: Is Celine Dion honest?
Meglen: Yes
Meglen and Dion have been working together for 12 years. He's familiar with a lot of her shows. (ABC7)

Panish then asked Meglen about concert attendance figures cited in Billboard magazine. Meglen said he uses them, but just as an outline. “I’ve kind of learned to believe that they’re not totally accurate,” Meglen said of the figures. (AP)

Panish asked about a Celine Dion show performed at the Stade de France outside of Paris. The listed max capacity is around 80k. Meglen said he believed the stadium could host 60,000 to 70,000 concertgoers for a show. Panish cited figures for two Dion shows in 1999. Panish showed Meglen a printout from Dion’s website, stating she sold 90k tickets each night for two shows in June 1999. “That’s what it says,” Meglen said of the printout. The executive told the jury he didn’t promote the Stade de France shows. Meglen had also told the jury that he wasn’t familiar with the promotion of Dion’s Asian or European tour dates. (AP)

Panish: What did you testify was the maximum capacity of stadium in France?
Meglen: I don't believe it is 80,000
Meglen: Generally, 30% of the numbers that your expert project you have to take out because it gets you to the salable number.
Panish: So what's the maximum seating capacity for that stadium in Paris?
Meglen: I don't know exactly, I'd say 60 to 70,000
Panish: Isn't it true Celine Dion sold 90,000 tickets at that stadium in 1999?
Meglen: I don't know if that's true, didn't promote that show
"It sounds like too big a number to me," Meglen said. Panish said it was 180,000 people for two shows. (ABC7)

Panish then attacked AEG’s slide on the Rose Bowl attendance figures. The slide said concert capacity was about 60,000 people. Panish showed Meglen a Billboard magazine story that reported U2 packed in 97,000 people for a concert there. Meglen said that’s what Billboard reported, but he said he hung out before that show and was told by the band’s rep that it hadn’t sold out. The executive said one of the only shows AEG Live has ever produced that had more than 60k concertgoers was at Ohio State University (AP)

Exhibit: Rose Bowl Cap
Rolling Stones VooDoo Lounge, 2 shows
Plaintiff's Stated Capacity: 92,542
Actual Capacity: 59,570
Difference: 32,972 (ABC7)

Meglen said he met with his attorney 5 days to prepare for his testimony. He was subpoenaed at lunch time and Bina said they will respond. "The maximum capacity of shows I've done at the Rose Bowl was 59,570," Meglen testified. (ABC7)

Panish: Isn't it true U2 had 97,000 people attend at the Rose Bowl?
Meglen: That's not true
Panish: It was reported on Billboard Magazine
Meglen: I wouldn't believe it (ABC7)

Panish showed Meglen the Billboard Magazine article. He asked how many tickets were sold at U2 performed in Oct 2009 at the Rose Bowl?
Meglen: It looks like they (Billboard) reported 97,000. I have done Pink Floyd and Rolling Stones, we try to sell as much as we can, we got to roughly 60,000.
Panish: Are you an expert in stadium?
Meglen: I think I am pretty much an expert in the field. (ABC7)

Meglen said that to him, the biggest stadium cap he played was in Columbus, Ohio for a concert and he got in over 60,000. Meglen: You assume I believe and agree with those numbers because they are on Billboard magazine. Those numbers are often inflated. (ABC7)

Panish asked Meglen how much time he spent preparing to testify. The exec said portions of five days. Meglen had been working on the Stones’ recent tour, started trial testimony preparation when he got back last week. Panish then asked Meglen about his contract and how much he got paid. Stebbins Bina objected, saying it was irrelevant to the trial. Panish said Meglen’s salary was relevant because it went to bias. Stebbins Bina said it was an invasion of privacy. Judge sustained the objection and Panish asked it a different way. Meglen said he was paid “sufficiently.” The lawyer asked if Meglen was paid a lot. The executive said he didn't know how to answer that question. When prodded, Meglen said $1 million a year seemed like a lot to him. He added he wasn’t paid that amount. (AP)

Panish asked if Meglen will do anything he can to protect AEG. "I'm here to tell the truth," Meglen said. Panish: How much do you get paid by AEG? Defendants' objected, said it has nothing to do with this case. Panish argued this goes to show a bias. He said he's under a 5 year contract with discretionary bonus. Judge sustained it. Panish asked if Meglen gets paid a lot by AEG. He said a lot to one person is not a lot to another. Panish asked what's a lot. Meglen said a million/year. Then Panish asked if Meglen gets paid a lot. "I'm not paid a million dollars a year" (ABC7)

Panish moved on after a few questions and then asked about a comment Meglen made yesterday that he works with “animals.” Meglen said he wasn’t referring to artists, he was referring to the people who prep and tear down shows and are on the road all the time. (AP) Panish asked about Meglen's reference to work with animals. "I told you yesterday that the people I worked are like animals," Meglen said. "I still work with animals." He said he was referring to crews and guys who works with him assembling shows and taking them down in hours. (ABC7) “I think we’re animals by doing that,” Meglen said. Panish asked whether the exec respected artists. “Very much,” he replied. (AP)

Panish asked if Meglen respects artists. He answered yes. He then asked if it is ok for AEG to refer to an artist as freak or creepy. Panish asked if it's appropriate for one of AEG's executive to call an artist "freak" and "creepy." "People will use terms about an artist that people have used before," Meglen answered. Panish asked if it's appropriate for AEG to call artist a freak. Meglen said no. Panish asked if Meglen thought it was appropriate for your lawyers to refer as freaks or creepy? Meglen: I don't believe it is yes or no answer. I believe if people are communicating in a personal level is different from being in public. "It would not be a appropriate is it was in a public fashion," Meglen opined. Panish: But in private it's ok? Meglen said he doesn't believe it's a yes or no answer. "I think when someone is having a private conversation and later if that becomes public, that can change things," Meglen said. Meglen: Freak had been used numerous times prior, I don't believe it was appropriate term for him to use but term that had been used before. "I think "creepy" is not that bad of a word," Meglen said. He told Panish he's sure they both have been called creepy behind their back. (ABC7)

Panish asked if it was appropriate to call an artist a “freak” or a meeting with an artist “creepy” as AEG corporate lawyers did in emails. Meglen said it depended on the situation and it wouldn’t be appropriate to do it in public. He said it wasn't a simple yes or no answer. After several more questions, Meglen said it wouldn’t be appropriate to call an artist a freak. He said calling someone creepy was different. Meglen said he’d probably been called creepy, and said it might have been said about Panish. “No one would say it to my face,” he replied. (AP)

Meglen said they always want to do what's best for the artist. He had some disagreements with his old boss. (ABC7)

Panish asked Meglen several questions about a June 2009 email that Paul Gongaware sent regarding Conrad Murray. Gongaware email: “We want to remind him that it is AEG, not MJ who is paying his salary. We want him to understand what is expected of him.” Meglen said he wasn’t copied on the email and could only speculate on what Gongaware meant. (AP) Panish asked Meglen to assume Gongaware wrote an email and said tell Murray, remind him it's AEG, not MJ, paying his salary. Panish showed Gongaware's email to Meglen. He said he's seen the email on the newspaper. Panish: You told me "who's paying your salary" is "where your bread if being buttered." Meglen: I said Mr. Ferrell told me 'you know where your bread is buttered.' "In the context of this email, I'd be only speculating what Paul was doing," Meglen said. (ABC7)

Panish then starting asking questions about other artists who have doctors who work on tours. He asked if AEG pays Celine Dion’s doctor. Meglen said Dion’s company pays her doctor. He said AEG didn’t negotiate the deal and can’t tell the doctor what’s expected of him. Panish asked about the Rolling Stones’ doctor. He gave the same answers -- that AEG didn’t hired or negotiate with the Stones’ doctor. Meglen said it’s usually the producer’s responsibility to negotiate with doctors, physical therapists, but terms are set by the artist. The executive re-iterated he wasn’t familiar with Murray’s contract, and hadn’t read Michael Jackson’s contract in detail. (AP)

Panish asked if AEG hired Celine Dion's doctor. Meglen said no. Celine's company pays her doctor. Meglen said they did not negotiate Dion's doctor's contract and cannot terminate him. Panish: Did AEG negotiate the doctor's contract for Rolling Stones? Meglen: No, it was negotiated by their tour producer. Panish asked if it's true the producer generally negotiates the contract with doctors, physical therapists, etc. Meglen: It can be producer's responsibility to hire the doctor if there is a doctor on the tour, if artist requests them to do that. In a video deposition, shown to the jury, Meglen said it's the producer's responsibility, many times. AEG Live was the producer for MJ's This Is It tour. "It can only be done with the approval of the artist," Meglen said. "You can't hire people in these positions without the artist approval." Meglen said he was told Michael wanted to bring his doctor on tour. He was not involved in negotiating the contract with Dr. Murray. Meglen said he had heard of some of the doctor's request in their executive meeting. "I don't know who was negotiating, I had simply heard the doctor requested money," Meglen said. Meglen: During one of our executive meetings, it was brought to our attention that Murray was asking for $5 million. Gongaware was the one who brought it up. Meglen said it was kind of understood the amount was excessive and it was not going to happen. (ABC7)

He said the company doesn’t hire doctors. He said the issue of Murray asking for $5 million came up in a meeting of AEG Live executives. Meglen said Gongaware reported the doctor’s request. After several questions about who was there, Meglen said he didn’t remember how many meetings that included a discussion of Murray’s fee, or if he commented on it. He said it may have come up in just one meeting. Meglen said Gongaware told the group that Jackson told him to offer Murray $150k a month, and the doctor accepted that. The executive said it’s uncommon that any artist’s doctor are discussed in the AEG Live executive meetings. He said outside of Jackson’s tour, a discussion of an artist’s doctor had probably never happened in the executives’’ meetings. (AP)

Panish asked whether AEG Live directly paid the doctors for the Stones and Dion. Meglen said not, the artists paid them. Meglen said Dion’s doctor was listed in an early budget for her shows, but he was only listed as someone paid out of her expense stipend. Dion’s company would be paid a certain amount to operate her show each week, Meglen said, and her doc would be paid from that. Meglen: “We do not hire doctors. We could advance on behalf of an artist.” (AP)

Panish: Isn't true Celine Dion's doctor is paid for out of show production budget? Meglen: I pay Celine Dion an amount of money, to which she pays the doctor out of that money. (ABC7)

Panish: You never proposed a MJ show when he was alive?
Meglen: I asked if Michael was interested in doing a Celine-type show and he said no (ABC7)

"Our policy is we do not have a deal until we have a signed contract," Meglen explained. "We do not consider a deal done until there's an executed contract," Meglen said. He said just because Murray agreed to money offer by MJ via Gongaware does not mean a deal was consummated. (ABC7)

Panish: Is it common at the executive committee to talk about the artist's doctor?
Meglen: No, that's not common
Panish asked when was the last time the committee discussed an artist's doctor.
"That probably never happened," Meglen said. (ABC7)

Only Rolling Stones and Celine Dion have had doctors on tour under AEG. "AEG did not have a contract with Celine's doctor," Meglen said. They did not negotiate the doctor's payment, could not fire the doctor. Meglen said he does not know if Dion's doctor set her schedule up. "AEG paid the per-show operating expense to CDA production who in turn paid the doctor," Meglen said aboutCeline Dion. Regarding the Rolling Stones, Meglen said the doctor worked for the band, which means worked for principals and band members. Meglen said AEG did not negotiate the contract with the doctor for the Rolling Stones. Panish: AEG give money to the Rolling Stones? Meglen: Yes . Panish asked if it was $18 million. Meglen said there was advance/other securities, doesn't know if the Rolling Stones have to pay it back. Meglen: We did not produce the Rolling Stones show, we only promoted the Rolling Stones tour. Celine Dion's doctor was on the original operation budget by AEG for her show. He was listed to be paid out of the weekly operation expense. Meglen said Dion's doctor was her responsibility to pay. "AEG does not pay doctors," Meglen said. "We do not hire doctors, we could advance on behalf of artists." I know we don't hire doctors," Meglen said. He was not involved in a day-to-day details. (ABC7)


Panish asked who would be in a better position to know AEG’s actions on Jackson’s shows, Meglen or Randy Phillips. Meglen said Phillips and Gongaware would know, but said he knew the company didn’t hire doctors. Panish asked whether Meglen had ever discussed trial testimony with Phillips or Gongaware. He said no. Meglen said the executives had discussed the case, but they were told not to discuss their respective testimony. He said he did ask Philip Anshutz how he thought the case was going when they saw each other recently. Meglen said Anshutz told him, “'I think it’s going fine. We have not presented our case yet.’” Meglen said they didn’t discuss it further. (AP)

Panish asked if Meglen spoke with Mr. Anschutz about the trial. Meglen said he asked what he thought about the trial. "I think it's going fine, we have not presented our case yet," Meglen said Anschutz responded. (ABC7)

Panish showed the picture of MJ in June 2009. Meglen: He looks skinny, he looks skinner than when I saw him. That's all. "I'm not a doctor. It's not for me to decide whether being slander is healthy or not healthy," Meglen explained. (ABC7)

Panish asked about the meeting with MJ in 2007. "I'm very proud of the assets of AEG, but I don't think I was bragging about it." Meglen said he would not go in a meeting about movies since he is not in the movie business. He said he showed the company's movie sizzle reel to MJ because he wanted to show the quality of their work. "How would I know what MJ wanted to do?" Meglen said. (ABC7)

 

[ivy]

Jacksons vs AEG - Day 55 – July 24 2013 – Summary

Katherine and Trent Jackson are at court.


John Meglen Testimony


Jackson Cross


AEG Live executive John Meglen is back on the stand. He’s being cross examined by plaintiff’s lawyer Brian Panish. There were some testy exchanges between Meglen and Panish. The lawyer went back over a lot of Meglen’s testimony from yesterday. There were lots of objections. The judge also had to tell Meglen to give yes or no answers, and told Panish not to argue with the witness. The session actually ended when the judge called a sidebar right before the lunch break. (AP)

Panish asked Meglen about his testimony yesterday on the reported 97k attendance figure for a U2 concert at the Rose Bowl. Meglen said yesterday he didn’t believe the figure as it was reported by Billboard magazine. Panish asked him for any evidence to dispute it The executive said he didn’t have evidence to dispute the 97k attendance figure, but made clear he doesn’t believe it. (AP)

The Rose Bowl would only seat 60,000, Meglin said. Although Billboard Magazine reported that U2 performed for 97,000 people in the Pasadena, California, venue in 2009, Meglin said he was "trusting my gut" that the numbers were inflated. "I know how those numbers can be manipulated," he said.Jackson lead lawyer Brian Panish noted that 98,000 people were in the Rose Bowl seats when Michael Jacksonperformed the halftime show for Super Bowl 27 in 1993. (CNN)

Panish showed the Rose Bowl chart defendants created and asked what's the maximum seating capacity in the Rose Bowl? Meglen: There are many factors that go into that "I believe the seating capacity for a football game is 100,000," Meglen said.
Panish: For a music concert?
Meglen: You'll need to tell me the size of the production in order to tell you (ABC7)

Meglen: U2 Concert was called 360, so I'm assuming it sold 360 degrees. Meglen said he was at the Rose Bowl but didn't watch the U2 concert. Panish asked if 97,000 people sounds right. Meglen: No, I'm not aware of that because I was not involved in the show Panish asked if Meglen was saying the Rose Bowl can't fit 97,000. "I'm not trying to tell you that, it depends on the size of the production. Michael was a stage end production," Meglen opined. Meglen: If you have a center stage, 360 in the round with a small stage in the middle, you could probably get 97,000, yes. Panish asked if Billboard Magazine was wrong about U2 having 97K people. "I told you I do not believe the numbers on Billboard" Meglen said. Panish showed picture of U2 concert at the Rose Bowl. Meglen said the floor is not completely filled up. Panish asked how many seats are in the Rose Bowl. Meglen said the stadium is around 100,000 people. (ABC7)

Panish: You told us yesterday you spoke with the promoters of U2. Who did you speak with?
Meglen: Jerry Barae -- he's in Chicago (ABC7)

Meglen: I never disputed what U2 sold at Rose Bowl. I cannot tell you how much are paid tickets, how much are what we call 'paper ticket' VooDoo Lounge, 180-200 degrees, you can sell 60,000 seats, Meglen said. Panish asked if Meglen spoke with someone promoting the U2 concert at the Rose Bowl and that there were only 60,000 people there. Meglen said that was not true. (ABC7)

Panish: If you testified to that it is a lie, then?
Meglen: I don't believe that's what I testified to

"I said that I don't believe it," Meglen said, "and I still believe that's not true. My answer said it is not true they had 97,000." Meglen: When I talk about ticket sales, we talk about paid tickets. We don't really care about people who don't pay tickets. "No one from U2's group told me that 97,000 people did not attend the Rose Bowl," Meglen said. Meglen explained he based his opinion on his experience promoting and producing stadium shows for 35 years. (ABC7)

He said he doesn’t believe the 97k figure was for paid attendance, which is what matters to him and what he was referring to. Panish
showed Meglen a photo from the U2 show. Fans were packed in the stands and hundreds were on the field. Meglen pointed out that the U2 show had a 360-degree stage that allowed them to sell tickets throughout the entire Rose Bowl. He said Michael Jackson’s stage for the “This Is It” show was different, an “end stage” setup that wouldn't allow as many concertgoers. Meglen conceded that you could probably fit 97k people in the Rose Bowl with the right stage, but they might not have all bought tickets. (AP)

Meglen smiled at Panish.
Panish: Is it funny Mr. Meglen?
Judge: Mr. Panish, don't argue -- she shook her head (ABC7)

Meglen said he's been working with Gongaware for 35 years. Panish asked if Meglen agrees with Gongaware that the sale of MJ's tickets was the fastest ever in the industry. Meglen: I don't think I agree with that statement, but I think that's what Paul thought.
Panish: Do you agree or disagree this is the most amazing ticket sales Mr. Gongaware has ever seen?
Meglen: I agree that's the most that Paul had seen (ABC7)

Meglen said he has done tours for 35 years, probably hundreds of tours.(ABC7)

The lawyer asked about Paul Gongaware’s contention that he had never seen anything like the “This Is It” ticket demand. Panish wanted to know why Meglen didn't agree with Gongaware's characterization of the "This Is It" ticket sales. Meglen: “Paul and I have worked on different projects in our lives.” He said he couldn't give the lawyer a simple yes or no answer. Panish asked whether Meglen was denying that Jackson had “huge ticket drawing power.” Meglen responded, “Not at all.” (AP)

Panish: Do you agree with Randy Phillips, the CEO of AEG, believe Mr. Jackson had an obligation to attend rehearsal? Meglen: I don't know the context of which this question was asked. You are asking me to opine on what Randy was thinking. Meglen: I don't know if Michael had a contractual obligation. "Randy may have felt Michael was obligated, but don't know it was contractually obligated," Meglen said. Meglen: I agree that an artist should go to some of the rehearsals, yes (ABC7)

Panish asked Meglen a bit about the AEG corporate structure. Meglen reports to the CEO of AEG Inc., he said. Panish again asked Meglen about his contention from yesterday that there were bigger stars than Michael Jackson. Panish's questioning focused on AEG execs Paul Gongaware and Randy Phillips saying there was no one bigger than Jackson. The lawyer then asked Meglen whether he agreed with AEG Live CEO that Michael Jackson was bigger than Celine Dion. Meglen works directly with Dion and her tours in North America. It took him a few tries before he answered the question. He said he doesn’t believe that Phillips’ statement is true, but it was a personal opinion. “To me, she’s bigger,” Meglen said. (AP)

Panish: Do you agree with Randy Phillips that MJ was a bigger artist than Celine Dion, yes or no?
Meglen: I do, myself, personally believe that that is not true
"In my opinion Celine is right up there with Michael Jackson and is bigger," Meglen said. (ABC7)

Meglen and Panish went back-and-forth for several minutes over when AEG’s negotiations began with Jackson in 2008. Meglen didn’t remember the time frame, so Panish played his deposition in which he said the negotiations started in Fall of 2008. Panish then asked whether Meglen was personally involved in the negotiations. He said he wasn’t at the negotiating table. It took a long time and several questions to establish that Meglen was briefed about negotiations during meetings with other AEG Live execs. Meglen didn’t review the actual contracts for the “This Is It” shows, but said he had input on ticket prices, other issues. (AP)

Panish played Meglen's deposition, where he was asked when he recalled the negotiations with MJ started. Meglen said Summer or Fall 2008. Panish: Is that the truth or not, sir? Or you don't know the truth? Meglen: It's the truth, but I'm not good with dates, need to look at my calendar. (ABC7)

Meglen said he was not at the table during the negotiation, he would be at the office doing his work. Meglen: I was not personally involved, face to face, with MJ's people Meglen said that the negotiation is not only the contract, but various internal conversations about the tour. "As CEO of Concerts West, it's my job to review any negotiations people are having regarding tour," Meglen said. Meglen explained he was involved in the internal discussions, in conversations with Gongaware and Phillips. He never reviewed the contract as was being drafted, Meglen said. (ABC7)

Meglen said he was not involved in "This Is It" movie. Panish said he was credited as co-producer of the movie. Meglen said he was a co-producer of the show not the movie. Meglen explained Gongaware has not been involved in Celine Dion's tour, but they give each other credit. (ABC7)

The exec said he gave input in ticket prices, scaling and places to have the show. Panish played video deposition, where Meglen said he doesn't recall if he was involved in the forecast for MJ tour. Timm Wooley is friends of Meglen. They haven't discussed the trial. The last time they saw each other was in London for Rolling Stones show. Wooley doesn't work for AEG, but to Rolling Stones now. Hougdahl "Bugzee" is working for Shania Twain. Panish showed an email from Gongaware about MJ first draft of worldwide tour projection. It lists "net to Mikey $132 million." Email: It's a big number, but this is not a number MJ will want to hear. He thinks he is so much bigger than that. If we use show income, it's over a quarter of a billion dollars. His net share works out to be 50% after local venue and advertising costs, which is quite good. His gross will approach $ half a billion. Maybe gross is a better number to throw around, if we need to use numbers with Mikey listening.
Panish: Isn't Paul Gongaware suggesting to lie to Michael Jackson?
Meglen: No he is not (ABC7)

Panish asked Meglen is he knows Dr. Finkelstein. He said he asked which tour he was in with Michael Jackson. Meglen said he saw Dr. Finkelstein at the Coachella festival. He got tickets from AEG. (ABC7)

Meglen spoke with Gongaware about previous MJ's tour. He knows that Michael canceled a tour because MJ entered rehab. (ABc7)

After a brief break, Panish showed Meglen the AEG projections for a worldwide tour for Jackson that were displayed last week. Panish went through the list, showing that AEG had plotted out potential shows in Europe, South Africa and other locations. The lawyer pointed to several shows planned for India and his contention that big artists didn’t perform in India. Panish then rattled off several acts who peformed in India: Beyonce, Akon, Shakira, 50 Cent. Meglen didn’t dispute they performed there. “It’s not a very big market, that I do know,” Meglen said of the India concert scene. A dispute over India’s population ensued. Panish at one point said that there were billions of people in Mumbai alone, prompting several attorneys and the judge to chime in. Panish conceded the billions of people in Mumbai remark wasn't right and moved on to other topics. (AP)

Panish showed email Gongaware sent with the attachment of the worldwide MJ tour and cc'd to Meglen. It lists cities, the amount of shows and weeks in Europe, South Africa, Asia (and Middle East), India and US.
Panish: You told us yesterday no one goes to India
Meglen: Not that many do. Again, I told you very few people, no one as in few people
Meglen said he thinks MJ did one or two shows in India.
Panish: Is Beyonce no one?
Meglen: No, she's a very popular
Panish: Do you know she went to India?
Meglen: I have not idea
Panish also named Shakira, Akon, 50 Cent that went to India. The email projection shows 3 shows in India plus one private for MJ. (ABC7)

He next asked Meglen about Phillips’ contention in an email that Jackson could have sold out 200 shows in London. Meglen said he didn’t agree and that he didn’t believe that Jackson could have done 200 shows in London. Asked if Phillips’ statement in the email was a false one, Meglen said yes. He added that no one in the business has a “crystal ball.” He said Phillips may have believed that was true, but he didn't believe Jackson could have done 200 shows in London. Panish asked some questions about how many tickets people could buy for the “This Is It” shows. Meglen said he didn’t know. Meglen and Panish went back-and-forth about it for a few questions, then the judge called a sidebar. (AP)

Meglin also disagreed with what one of his superiors, AEG Live CEO Randy Phillips, wrote in an e-mail that there was enough demand in England alone to sell out more that 200 Jackson shows. "He believed that," Meglin testified. "I don't believe that." (CNN)

Meglen said he does not believe MJ could sell 200 shows in London. Panish said Randy Phillips said that. "My opinion is no, that he he could not have done 200 shows in London," Meglen testified. Panish showed an email from Phillips saying "We could have done 200+ shows based on demand." Meglen said he does not believe that is true. "He believed that, I don't believe that." "No one has a crystal ball in our business," Meglen said. "He could've done 200 shows is purely speculation on his behalf." Panish asked if Phillips was more hands on than he was in "This Is It" tour. He said yes. “I don't know if I agree there were 525,000 people in the queue," Meglan opined. "Everybody exaggerates, and when something is hot everyone wants to take it to the moon," Meglen said. Panish asked Meglen to assume Randy Phillips told the truth. "I know it's a big assumption," Panish said. Defendants' attorney objected, judge sustained it and asked to go to sidebar to talk to attorneys. Attorneys went to judge's chamber and talked for about 10 minutes. They came back and judge broke session for lunch. (ABC7)

Panish corrected himself about number of people living in India. Earlier he said several billion people live there, but should be millions. "I understand you are mistaken," Meglen said. "It doesn't mean you are a liar." Panish said he would not respond to Meglen's comment. (ABC7)

Regarding India, Meglen explained: "I don't think it's a small market, I think it's an under developed market." Meglen said he knows that Michael played in India, heard from Panish that Beyonce went to India. (ABC7)

Panish: When you testified yesterday, you didn't know anyone that had gone to India, correct?
Meglen: No, that's not correct (ABC7)

Panish: Are there a lot of stadiums in the world that hold more than 60,000?
Meglen: Yes, there are a lot of soccer stadiums in the world
Panish: In Australia?
Meglen: Yes (ABC7)

Meglen said he does not recall how many times MJ sold out in London.(ABC7)

Leonard Cohen -- AEG promoted and produced worldwide tour, Meglen said.
Panish: Did you hire a doctor for Leonard Cohen?
Meglen: We do not hire doctors (ABC7)

Panish asked if Meglen has had experience where the CEO is involved in doing an intervention with an artist. Meglen said he's aware of it happening before in the early 80s, not at AEG. He was involved minimally in the intervention. (ABC7)

Meglen said he has not had emails from show managers at AEG saying the artist was deteriorating. "I've had situation where the production manager had emails about the artist's behavior," Meglen testified. "I've had situations where artists had been sick before, yes," Meglen said. Panish: Have you ever called the doctor for 30 minutes to discuss the artist's condition? Meglen: No (ABC7)
Panish asked if Meglen had ever seen an email saying AEG wanted to remind the doctor they are paying the bill. The exec said no. (ABC7)

Meglen: I'm aware of us checking people out. "We don't hire doctors, if the artist wants his doctor there, the way we check that out we go to the artist," Meglen said. "If I'm asking the artist if that's his doctor, that's throughly checking him out," Meglen explained. (ABc7)

Meglen: I asked MJ if he was performing this and he told me he did not want to do (a residency show in Las Vegas). "I think MJ would have to do over 2.5 shows a week or you couldn't have such a deal," Meglen said. (ABC7)


AEG redirect

In re-direct, Jessica Bina asked about the proposal for the Las Vegas show in 2010 with MJ's Estate. "There are numbers for per week, per year for the first 5 performance years, then next 5 performance years," Meglen explained. Meglen said he became aware Cirque du Soleil was anxious to get a deal done with the Estate to have a MJ show. Meglen said his argument was that there was something better to do. (ABC7)

Meglen: We don't have a crystal ball (on whether show would be successful or not). (ABC7)

Bina asked if artist is in the middle of stadium w/ microphone if there are reasons the show couldn't be filled to capacity. Meglan said no. Bina: But does it happen very often? Meglen: No. Meglen: Artist has to be comfortable with all around stage, production becomes very challenging and incredibly expensive as well as sales. "This Is It" was not set to be a 360 degree show, Meglen said. He noted it was quite the opposite. MJ's production was $26-$27 million. Meglen said for TII to become 360 degree tour, there would be cost associated with it. "Pretty much, it would have to be a new production." Meglen explained 180-240 degrees in front of the stage is the standard in the business. Meglen said if he could sell more tickets for TII he would have. "It's nothing but profit at that point." The executive said there was never a conversation about making TII show 360 degree. (ABC7)

Meglen said again he doesn't agree with Phillips' opinion that there were 200+ more shows to be done in London. Meglen said putting 13 million tickets on sale was not on his mind. He expected the London shows to do well. The executive said when MJ said "This is It" people thought that was it. But if he went to other cities, this was not it after all. Meglen said that at the time MJ died there were only 50 shows agreed upon between MJ and AEG. Meglen said that for lower ticket price TII was a great sale. (ABC7)


Jackson recross

Panish: Were Paul Gongaware and Randy Phillips more involved in TII than you?
Meglen: Yes (ABC7)

The executive said he never told Gongaware and Phillips the projection was bad, only that he thought it was a long ways to get to the end. (ABC7)


AEG redirect

Meglen said Beatles' "Love" and Cirque du Soleil "O" are two of the most successful conceptional shows. (ABC7)

Bina showed Gongaware's email again: Here's the first-draft look at a worldwide tour... you can't pin this down now... too many variables. (ABC7)

Meglen said it's not possible to see the Beatles anymore, since some members are dead. Meglen: If Michael was still alive and touring, I would not be interested in doing a MJ conceptional show. (ABC7)


Jackson recross

Panish asked if MJ wanted to go worldwide, AEG would've been able to make that happen. Meglen said he could've set up the arrangements. "I cannot tell you how many more Michael Jackson tours he could've done it, it's pure speculation," Meglen said.
Panish: Did you know MJ told his children they would go on a world tour?
Meglen: I have no idea (ABC7)

Meglen was excused.


Dr. Alimorad Farshchian Video Deposition

Deposition was in August 2012. Marvin Putnam did the questioning. Dr. Farshchian went to Rutger's University, graduated in 1983 with pre-med. He went to medical school in Saint Lucia in 1987. After that he did cardiac research at SUNY in Brooklyn. He did that for 3-4 years. He then did residency in internal medicine and family medicine, went to private practice. Dr. Farshchian is not board certified. Center for Regenerative Medicine is his practice in Florida. He's the medical director. (ABC7)

Dr. Farshchian treated MJ in April 2001 and stopped in 2003. 'I was one of his doctors," he said. Dr. Farshchian said MJ was having an issue with his ankle, he was supposed to performed at Madison Square Garden, had to rehearse. Dr. Farshchian: And he had an ankle issue that was more like a sprained ankle that was not healing and he had to continue to dance on it. "He made an appointment like everybody else," Dr. Farshchian said. (ABC7)

Putnam asked if MJ wanted to get off drugs, if that happened at the hotel in a second meeting with the doctor. He said yes. Putnam: Do you remember the first time he told you he wanted to clean himself up from drugs? "He was trying to get off Demerol," Dr. Farshchian said. MJ told him he had a problem with the drug. Dr. Farshchian said MJ's main concern was his kids, always his kids, I'd do for my kids, and to spend more time with his kids. (ABC7)

At that time, Dr. Farshchian said he wasn't following MJ on the media. At that point, to me he was just a regular patient. Dr Farshchian: When I got to know him I visited him at the hotel, read a little about him on the internet, then realized was ongoing problem (ABc7)

Putnam: Did MJ tell you he was addicted to Demerol?
Dr. Farshchian: Not in certain words
Putnam: Did he seek treatment with you?
Dr. Farshchian: Eventually (ABC7)

Dr. Farshchian: To treat Michael for that problem, I thought that because he travelled quite a bit he needed something to be on him. I chose Naltrexone, Dr. Fashchian testified. The drug inhibits the effects of the narcotics, if you take it it stops giving you the euphoria. Dr. Farshchian said he implanted more than one patch of the drug in MJ. It normally lasts 60-90 days in the body. MJ had patch implanted 5 times. Dr. Farshchian said in training in family medicine, he learned about psychiatry and drug dependency. Dr. Farshchian: The implant, back then it was more popular, not doing as much anymore. The doctor said carrying an implant in you, you carry a risk of infection. That could be a reason they don't do it that much. Dr. Farshchian said MJ's skin would have allergy from the patch, he wouldn't be very comfortable with it. Dr. Farshchian: It's usually placed in the abdomen lower than belly button, right or left side, and removed after 90 days. (ABC7)

Medical record timeline (ABC7)


21 Jul 02 -- sent more information about Buprenex, since did not get any respond (sic) from him and attempt to intervene.

Jackson had some sort of infection on his leg, he was going to Germany at the time, so Dr Farshchian went with him for treatment of his condition

20 Oct 02 -- patient states he need some help him with his addiction problem. He does not wish to go to an outpatient rehab facility despite the pressure from family. Discussed with him option of Naltrexone.

Dr. Farshchian said Jackson was adamant about not going to rehab facility. He was concerned about his privacy and paparazzi.

04 Nov 02 -- Jackson's weight was 128 -- pre-procedure, cut the skin, insert implant chip of Naltrexone.

Dr. Farshchian used local anesthesia with lidocaine 1%, done as outpatient in doctor's office in Miami.

06 Nov 02 -- phone call, states he's doing well tolerating minimum agitation, little insomnia

Dr. Farshchian said it was a 10 hour production to go from Neverland to Miami. Jackson said he was going to see a psychologist. "Jackson was very private with everything," Dr. Farshchian said. At the time, he was complaining of insomnia. He was seeing a herbologist for it. Dr. Farshchian said Jackson always had trouble sleeping. "To me his insomnia was caused, possibly, you have this area inside the nose...called turbinates, if you reduced it's called empty nose syndrome, to me that was the cause of that. Putnam asked if parts of Jackson’s nose were missing? Dr. Farshchian’s response, “ Portions of his nose were taken out. (Jurors heard from Farschian that Jackson suffered from insomnia years earlier. The doctor's theory is that it was linked to cosmetic surgery: a key part of Jacksons nose was missing. "It is possible that you produce what they call empty nose syndrome and producing insomnia," said Farschian.)

Two days later, Jackson reported good nights.”

26 Nov 02 -- ankle wound is better, but he had taken the implant out by a physician at home, wishes to do another implant

Dr. Farshchian said Michael had a local doctor who didn't know what the patch was and removed it. Jackson would itch it, had some skin rash. Michael really wanted to do this, he came back to get the procedure done, Dr. Farshchian said.

26 Nov 02 -- second procedure of Naltrexone

27 Nov 02 -- no nausea, vomiting, diarrhea. Abdomen implant well placed Naltrexone implant: continue current treatment, patient sober x 20 days

29 Nov 02 -- feels very good, sleeping well. No sign of opiate withdrawal.

Dr. Farshchian: My practice is completely orthopedic regeneration. He said he treats arthritis and orthopedic conditions.

02 Dec 02 -- feels very good, sleeping well Patient sober, now going over the 12 steps with him

Dr. Farshchian: Each of the steps is somewhat connected of asking God to help you get strength to battle addiction. There was a period of time Jackson stayed with Dr. Farshchian, he stayed over two times, the children one time. The doctor lives in North Miami Beach, Bay Harbor Island. Grace Rwamba might've stayed at the house as well. Dr. Farshchian said he converted his garage into a bedroom for Jackson. He never treated Jackson at the house.

04 Dec 02 -- Narcan implant at its place Exercised the 12 steps with him

20 Jan 03 -- patient returns for another implant, been sober for more than 2 months, states been following the 12 step program Weight: 135 lbs

03 Apr 03 -- patient returns for another implant, sober for almost 6 months following 12 step program at least once a week with private social worker

02 Jul 03 -- patient returned for another implant, sober for almost 9 months, good with 12 step program

Patient can follow up with local physician at this point. Dr. Farshchian said he thought it was enough, the treatment was done.

(About the plaintiffs claim that Jackson was emaciated, the autopsy recorded he was 136 pounds when he died. Farschian testified that Jackson weighed 128 when he treated him.)

The next time Dr. Farshchian saw Michael was the weekend after he was arrested.
Putnam: How was he doing?
Dr. Farshchian: Not too good
Putnam: Was he using drugs again?
Dr. Farshchian: No (ABC7)

Dr. Farshchian: There was an attempt intervention by the family but MJ was very difficult to get to, bodyguard, so it may not have happened. Putnam asked if the intervention was in the Spring of 2002. Dr. Farshchian said it might've been after or before, not sure. (ABC7)

Dr. Farshchian is not aware of MJ doing any other outpatient treatment. (ABC7)

Dr. Farshchian said when MJ's third child, Blanket, was just born, there was 'a monkey on his back', he didn't want to do it anymore. "Monkey on his back" was Demerol use, Dr. Farshchian said. Dr. Farshchian said he didn't know why MJ became addicted or started taking Demerol. The doctor said MJ did not abuse other drugs or alcohol. (ABC7)

MJ was seeing other doctors in CA.
List of other doctors:
Dr. William Van Valin -- Dr. Farshchian doesn't know him
Dr. Murray -- Dr. Farshchian doesn't know him
Dr. Arnold Klein -- yes, I heard about him through the media
Dr. Steven Hoefflin -- Dr. Farshchian doesn't know him
Dr. Metzger-- yes, heard being MJ's physician in LA, might have spoken to him. Spoke about implants, what to do about it, how he should look (ABC7)

Last time Dr. Farshchian spoke with Mrs. Jackson was at the funeral. Before he spoke with her at a 2002 Christmas at Neverland. He said he also had a phone call with Mrs. Jackson where she wanted to know about the implants. Michael called Mrs. Jackson and Dr. Farshchian said he was treating MJ for addiction to Demerol. (ABC7) The doctor said he talked to her directly about the singer's detox treatment."I think she wanted to know all about it, what was going on," said Farschian. (ABC)

Last time he spoke with MJ on the phone was in the Winter of 2004. His first impression was that he wanted to get better for the kids' sake. (ABC7)

Did you understand Mrs. Jackson was concerned about his health? Dr. Farshchian: Yes, I don't recall the conversation, but once she understood the procedure he said she was happy Dr. Farshchian: Once at Neverland Michael showed his mother the implant. She was very happy about it. (ABC7) The doctor said he implanted Jackson five times over nine months and that he personally witnessed Mrs. Jackson examining her son's incision. "I remember that was in Neverland. Michael did show the implant to his mother. Just his mother was there. She was very happy," said Farschian. (ABC)

 

[ivy]

Jacksons vs AEG - Day 56 – July 25 2013 – Summary

(source : ABC7 unless otherwise indicated)

Katherine Jackson is in court.

Outside the presence of the jury, Jacksons' attorney Brian Panish expressed concern about next witness. Nurse and anesthetist David Fournie had conversation with Dr. Klein and defendants want to introduce that conversation in the testimony. Fournier is performing anesthesia in MJ, there's a situation that arises, Kathryn Cahan said. 'Oh, he has a Narcan implant,' Dr. Klein allegedly told Fournier, who then directs Fournier how to treat MJ. Panish said this was in 2003. He claims it's character evidence, that MJ never disclosed it to the nurse. He also claims to be hearsay. Judge asked sides to research if the conversation would be considered exception to the hearsay rule. Bina said Fournier didn't know what to do, he asked the doctor and changed the treatment. She said MJ admitted he had an implant after. Cahan: He's administered anesthesia, MJ stopped breathing for 5 minutes, Fournier had to breath for him. Cahan: That continues until he realizes there's a reaction to Narcan implant. Panish asked what the relevance is, said defendants are trying to introduce character evidence, which has nothing to do with this case. Cahan said the relevance is that Fournier asked MJ about changes from prior treatment. Cahan: MJ knew he had a Narcan implant and chose not to disclose it. He stopped breathing for 5 minutes in the middle of the procedure. Cahan said it goes to the issues of life expectancy, addiction issue, concealment of drug use. Judge is overruling the objection since she thinks it's been offered for the truth and it's hearsay. Defendants not allowed to use it.


David Fournier (nurse anesthetist) Testimony


AEG direct

Kathryn Cahan did direct examination of David Fournier. Fournier said he's terrified of testifying today. He's testified twice before.

He is a Certified registered nurse anesthetist, trained in the specialty of anesthesia. He did Bachelor Degree in Nursing and Master's Degree in Anesthesia. There's a board exam that need to be taken, Fournier did very well. There's a number of hours of continuing education needed to maintain license. Anesthesiologist gets bachelor degree in science, then medical school. Nurse anesthetist goes 2 nursing school, then same training as doctor. Fournier graduated in 1984 from UCLA, has been practicing continuously since that time. He's self-employed, works at outpatient surgery in Beverly Hills; works with plastic, reconstructive, orthopedics, gynecological surgeries

Fournier said he got a call in 1992 from a dermatologist's office, asked him to come by, stand by, didn't tell him who the client was. Doctor had a concern there might be anaphylactic reaction to inoculations. Fournier: I initially refused, I don't do that, doctor was very insistent, offered me cash upfront. "He said it was really important for me to go, since it was Michael Jackson," Fournier recalled. Fournier said the doctor was very concerned, didn't want anything to go wrong. Airway management is one of his skills, Fournier said.
Three to six months later, Fournier recalled he was called back to treat MJ. This was in Jan 1993.

Most of the records were destroyed due to time limit, Fournier said. Last time he treated Michael was in 2003, about 6 yrs before his death. He treated MJ for about 10 years. Fournier said he does not have all the records of his treatment to Michael Jackson, but has some. Fournier gave a deposition in this case. He provided the medical records he had pursuant to a subpoena. Fournier said he believes the standard is 7 years before a physician destroys a patient's record.

Some of the times I did not give him medication, just observed him, Fournier said. Fournier estimates he treated MJ 30-35 times, anesthesia perhaps 25 times.

Cahan showed a medical history form and anesthetic consent.
Weight: 130 lbs -- Date: 1/19/2000

Fournier said he always asks height and weight of patients and if he thinks the weight is off, he puts patient on scale. Michael had a number of aliases, Omar Arnold was one of them, Fournier said. MJ said he weighed 130 lbs in January of 2000. Fournier said he probably accepted MJ's representation. Weight is a factor in anesthesia, Fournier said. It gives a very rough estimate where to start the dosage. Fournier: I think he weighed between 130 and 140 pounds during the 10 years I treated him.

Cahan: Did he have a good appetite?
Fournier: Not really. I would ask him what he had to eat last and he would say lunch the day before

One time Fournier said he asked why MJ was down to 130 lbs. He said the singer told him he had been on tour, dancing.
Cahan asked if it concerned him that MJ was 130 lbs.
Fournier: No, he's lean, muscular, in good shape, so no

Fournier explained all the questions he asks the patient before giving anesthesia: medical history, medications, etc. The nurse said that if it's a regular patient, he would still take medical history, but it would be abbreviated. Fournier said he always took MJ's medical history prior to procedures.

The nurse worked on MJ at the following procedures: scalp reduction for burn he suffered, abscessed tooth, root canal, extensive tattooing on his lips, eyes, brown area, Botox, collagen and filler injections

Cahan: Do you frequently anesthetize patients receiving Botox or fillers?
Fournier: No

Fournier: Michael was special in that. Instead of 5 or 6 injections that people normally get, MJ would get 50-100. MJ got 100s of injections around the eye, various parts of his face. It's more than average patients, needed to be sedated to tolerate pain.

Fournier has been using Propofol since 1990. It's appropriate to use the drug mostly in operating room and/or controlled setting, he said. Equipment needed for Safe Administration of Propofol: Ambu bag and mask, Assorted airway equipment, Laryngoscope blade, Laryngeal mask, Endotracheal tube ready to go, Available source of oxygen, EKG, Capnograph, Ability to measure blood pressure, Pulse oximeter, IV access and IV fluids, Resuscitation Drugs, Continuos monitoring

Fournier said to keep patient sedated you also need computerizing infusion. It's a more controlled way to administer drugs rather than drip. Depending on the dose, the patient can breath on his own, Fournier said. Fournier read the label of Diprivan (brand name for Propofol). He said monitoring the patient is a full time job.

All the equipments needed are very expensive, Fournier said. He had about $70,000 invested in his operating room. "Every time we give anesthetic there's a potential for reaction," Fournier said. Propofol is not available in pill form and is not given as prescription to patients because it's an anesthetic, dangerous, Fournier said. If the drug is not in proper hands, administered with proper monitoring, it's dangerous, Fournier explained. Fournier said Propofol half life is 2-8 minutes. It metabolizes relatively quickly, patients wake up feeling well, there's anti-nausea in it The nurse said Propofol burns if not given correctly, can cause hypertension.

Cahan said she counted 14 different occasions where Fournier administered Propofol to MJ. He has record for 2000, 2002 and 2003 only. From 1993 to 2000, there are no medical records. He said he believes he gave MJ Propofol in 2001, but does not have records. He said he did not administer anesthetics after September 2003.

Fournier said his incomplete medical records show he administered propofol to Jackson at least 14 times between 2000 and 2003. He estimated he gave the singer the drug numerous other times over the years for a variety of cosmetic and dental procedures.He noted in his records that Jackson had a high tolerance for certain drugs, which Fournier said could be attributed to a variety of factors, including genetics. (AP)

Medical record from 4/11/02:
Omar Arnold
Weight: 132 lbs
Dr. Koplin
Multiple collagen injections
Additional drugs given -- Propofol 140 mg

Fournier: The street name (of Propofol) is "milk of amnesia." One time I remember he (MJ) referred to it as "milk."

Fournier said MJ was very warm, likable guy and they became friends. He visited Neverland twice.

MJ never told him he was using Propofol to help sleep. Fournier said he never used Propofol to treat a patient for insomnia.

The nurse said he had trouble some times placing IV on Michael Jackson. He said at times he would have to change places. Fournier said it required multiple attempts some times to get an IV line in MJ. "I think the most I had to stick him was 3 times," he said. Fournier explained that some times he would have to start IV on small veins on MJ on the top of his finger or surface of the arm.

Medical record from 5/13/2003 -- weight 135 lbs
difficult IV place, difficult monitoring anesthesia, high tolerance of medication
Fournier said sometimes he would go 6 months without seeing MJ, so he explained the risks of anesthesia every time.

Medical record of 11/14/2000
Weight: 130 lbs
Mentions Versed, 5 mg
Very high tolerance noted
Vitals stable

Versed is a benzodiazepine, same as Valium, Fournier explained. "He was taking a little bit more than I'd anticipate to keep him comfortable," Fournier said. Fournier's normal starting dose is 1 mg of Versed. This was a dental procedure.

The nurse cannot perform any procedure without a doctor present.

Doctors MJ saw:
- Dr. Arnold Klein (dermatologist)
- Dr. Stephen Hoefflin (plastic surgery)
- Dr. Allan Metzger (internist)
- Dr. Lawrence Koplin (plastic surgery)
- Dr. Edward "Lee" Baxley (dentist)
- Dr. Leslie Levine (dentist)
- Dr. Lee Bosley (hair restoration)
- Dr. Gary Tearston (plastic reconstructive surgery)

Fournier said it is not appropriate to give Propofol in a home setting. He would never allow a patient to dictate how to give anesthesia.

MJ was very concerned about his privacy, Fournier said. He could not even go shopping without being disguised. "He loved people, but people could be overbearing sometimes," Fournier explained. Fournier said MJ would have procedures done in the evening, came in the back door, bodyguards used umbrella to shield the camera. MJ used aliases, before he left they looked outside to see if paparazzi were not there. Other aliases MJ used: Michael James, Jack James. "Procedures were done at night to protect his privacy and for his safety," Fournier said.

Cahan: Was there a time you didn't think MJ was being truthful with you?
Fournier: Towards the end of our working relationship, yes

Medical records from 6/02/2003
Problems:
Denies any medical or medication changes
Three days ago slurred speech, heard on the phone

Fournier said 3 days before the procedure it was his birthday and MJ called to wish happy birthday. "His speech was slurred," the nurse said. Fournier testified Michael told him he was tired, or might've take something to sleep. "He was more than tired, he was slurring the words," Fournier said. "I assumed something was going on." Fournier said he quizzed MJ about the slurred speech, if he was using recreational drugs. He denied it, said he was not using anything.

Medical record from 6/02/03:
Dr. Klein
Multiple derm procedures
Weight: 140 lbs

At some point MJ had an unusual reaction, Fournier said. Fournier: I controlled his ventilation 4 couple of minutes, it happened again, I lightened him up, assisted one more time w/ his breathing. Fournier said Dr. Klein told him something during the procedure and that they spoke after about it. MJ did not tell Fournier about any recent changes in his medication, according to Fournier's chart.
Cahan: Did you form an impression after this procedure whether MJ was being honest with you denying any change of medication?
Fournier: My impression is that he had not been truthful

Fournier: The last time I treated MJ, a few months after, he came to surgery center. He was a little goofy, a little slow to respond. Fournier: I asked if there were any changes in medication, he denied it, I didn't believe it, we canceled the procedure. "He was acting inappropriate," Fournier recalled. He said he believes the procedure was with Dr. Klein and another doctor to do facial work. Fournier said he felt uncomfortable. This was about 3 months after the last procedure.

Judge: Was Dr. Klein there?
Fournier: Yes
Judge: And he didn't stop the procedure?
Fournier: Michael came in and I made the decision

Michael Jackson had a high tolerance for certain drugs and wasn't always forthcoming with his medical history, a nurse anesthetist who treated the singer testified Thursday. Witness David Fournier told jurors he had worked with Jackson for a decade until the relationship ended in 2003, when Fournier refused to participate in a medical procedure.Jackson was acting "goofy" and was slow to respond to standard questions before a scheduled cosmetic surgery that was canceled after Fournier refused to administer an anesthetic, he said. The incident came a few months after Fournier said he had to help Jackson breath while undergoing another procedure and later determined that Jackson had not disclosed a new medical condition. "He wasn't honest with me," Fournier said without detailing the change in Jackson.At the time, Jackson had an implant in his abdomen to block the effects of Demerol and other opiate drugs. Fournier testified that he had given the singer a relatively large dose of a powerful anesthetic and needed to know how Jackson was going to react. (AP)

After that, Fournier explained what happened to their relationship. Fournier: Despite 10 years of quality of care, and taking good care of him, he (MJ) never called me back. Fournier: I felt this period here, in June (of 2003), he wasn't honest with me.

Fournier said that post-operatively they want patients to go home with an adult to keep an eye on them for 24 hours. "I told him to go home and instead of going home he went to rehearse," Fournier said. MJ sprained his ankle at rehearsal for Grammy Awards. Fournier said he tells patients after anesthesia to resume diet slowly, told MJ to go home, have crackers, soup. But he said he happened to drive by Kentucky Fried Chicken, saw MJ's limo parked. Fournier tapped at the window and saw MJ eating a bucket of chicken and some biscuits. "He was embarrassed," Fournier said.

Fournier also testified that Jackson failed to follow his instructions in two instances after being sedated for procedures. Jackson went to a Kentucky Fried Chicken restaurant for a bucket of chicken instead of going home and eating crackers, he testified. Another time he went to a rehearsal for a Grammy show performance and sprained his ankle, he said.(CNN)

Fournier said MJ became a patient in 1992-93. He said in 1993 MJ announced he was addicted to prescription medication. Every time they met, Fournier said they talked about the medications he was taking.

Cahan: Did you ever administer an opioid/painkiller in connection with a procedure?
Fournier: Yes. Fentanyl, Demerol, Dilaudid

They are controlled substances to relieve pain, Fournier said. MJ said he did not like Demerol one time, according to the nurse.
Cahan: In the last times you treated MJ, did he ask you not to use Demerol?
Fournier: Yes, he said he didn't like it, didn't want it
Cahan: Did you ever have a conversation with Mr. Jackson where he said he had a procedure to block the effects of opioids?
Fournier: No

"My understanding is that the last time he had a problem (with Demerol) was in 1993, when he announced to the world," Fournier said.
MJ never discussed Naltrexone with Fournier.

Cahan: Do you know what Narcan implant is?
Fournier: I do now, it was not FDA approved then
Cahan: Did you have conversation with Mr. Jackson about Narcan implant?
Fournier: Yes

Fournier: Subsequent to the procedure, he said he have had one but it was out, that he was clean and didn't need one. This was late August/September in 2003, after the procedure MJ stopped breathing. Fournier said the discussion was probably pre-op call before a procedure. Fournier: I had become aware of Narcan implant had been used for his care so I asked him about that.
The procedure moved forward next day, Fournier said. MJ did great.

Fournier said he was sometimes paid for his work, but sometimes it took up to a year to receive payment for care to Michael Jackson.

Fournier said he ran into MJ in 2005 at the waiting room of a doctor's office.

Jackson cross

Every instance where Jackson was given propofol was medically justified, Fournier said. The 14 times he administered it between 2000 and 2003 involved plastic surgeries, dermatological procedures and oral surgeries, he said. He first sedated Jackson in 1993 when he was being treated for serious scalp burns suffered while filming a Pepsi commercial several years earlier, he said. Some of the 25 times he was hired to assist with Jackson's procedures no drugs were given, he said. He would just hold his hand and assure him it would be all right.Jackson never asked for specific drugs and never quarreled with him, he said. All of the doctors who treated him were respected physicians, he said. Fournier's friendly relationship with Jackson ended in November 2003 when he canceled a procedure because Jackson was "a little goofy, a little slow to respond." Fournier said he refused to sedate Jackson because he suspected he was lying to him about his use of drugs. "Despite 10 years of good quality care and taking good care of him for a long period of time, he never called me," he said. (CNN)

Michael Koskoff did cross examination. He wanted to talk about the thing that really got you angry at MJ. "I wasn't angry," Fournier said.

Koskoff recalled the day MJ called Fournier to wish him happy birthday. Fournier said he knew MJ had a problem sleeping. Koskoff asked if Fournier inquired 'Michael, has there been any change in medication since last time I saw you?' Fournier: Correct
Koskoff: And MJ said there was no changes
Fournier: Right
Koskoff: Something happened at that point to make you believe Michael had misrepresented that he didn't change his medications?
Fournier: I believe he denied all medications

Koskoff asked if MJ did well in the procedure on 5/13/03. "Other than difficult IV placement and high tolerance to medication, he did fine"

Koskoff asked in April 24, 2003 -- how did that procedure go?
Fournier: No problem

Koskoff: Did you believe he was lying to you?
Fournier: The problem happened after that discussion

June 2, 2003 is the date MJ had an apnea episode.
"Yes, I was upset about that," Fournier said.

Koskoff: And it was because you thought MJ had misrepresented he didn't change his medications, correct?
Fournier: Yes

Koskoff: Would you be willing to apologize to Mrs. Jackson for saying her son was lying to you?
Objection, sustained, irrelevant

Koskoff: You have no knowledge whether the Narcan implant had anything to do with the reaction in June?
Fournier: No

Fournier said he never heard Narcan as an implant, had never seen one. "I was told by two of his physicians there was one," Fournier said. He spoke with doctors Klein and Metzger about it.

Koskoff: If Dr. Farshchian said it was Naltrexone implant and he thought it was the same as Narcan, it would be a mistake, correct?
Fournier: Correct. They are two different drugs.

Dr. Klein told Fournier MJ had a Narcan implant, he went home, research it and could not find anything on it. "I know the effects of Narcan," Fournier said. It can cause cardiac arrest, tachycardia, defibrillation. Naloxene, which is Narcan -- Fournier has familiarity with it. Fournier is not used to Naltrexone, but said it's also an opioid inhibitor. Koskoff: Do you know the effects of Naltroxene in anesthesia? Fournier: It would have the same effect of this kinds of drugs, antagonist opioid effect and it's dose-dependent.

Koskoff: In approximately 10 year he never reported to you allergy to Demerol?
Fournier: In the last year he did (after he started implant)
Fournier: He never told me he was allergic to it (Demerol), he said he didn't like it. In the medical record, Fournier wrote allergy to Demerol. He said it was a code to himself to not give MJ that drug.

Koskoff: Did you use any opiates in June 2?
Fournier: Yes, Remifentanil

Koskoff: May, 2003 -- did you give him an opioid?
Fournier: Remifentanil, high dose, developed tolerance
Propofol -- 240 mg

Koskoff: If you assume he was implanted in April 2003, at this time (May) he had it on, right?
Fournier: Correct

Medical record from May 13, 2003:
Height: 72 inches (6 feet)
Weight: 140 lbs
Allergy: Demerol
Medications: Denied

Koskoff asked if Fournier knows what caused the reaction on June 2, 2003. "I have a suspicion of what causes it," Fournier said. "Very strong suspicion."

Fournier has no prescription authority in California.

Koskoff said about holding Michael's hand, if that was literal.
Fournier: Yes, it's literal
Fournier: the doctors appreciated someone monitoring MJ, he was very important, at the peak of his career, and Michael was paying me. "They were very happy to have me there to make sure Michael was safe," Fournier testified.
Koskoff: You said you literally held his hand?
Fournier: Yes, for painful injections, squeeze my hand if you feel pain


Fournier agreed that Michael never chose the drugs he administered, never asked for more.
Koskoff: You gave MJ Propofol and he never asked you for Propofol, correct?
Fournier: Correct
Koskoff: You called the shots?
Fournier: Correct
Koskoff: If someone say MJ had drug-seeking behavior, you didn't see it?
Fournier: Correct

All the doctors treating MJ were top notch physicians, Fournier said. Fournier about Dr. Klein and Botox: He was quick to tell me he was a pioneer and no one could do better than him. Fournier said he never felt MJ had anesthesia inappropriately and didn't feel like MJ was doctor shopping.

Koskoff: Did he ever ask you to remain under anesthesia for longer than you thought was necessary?
Fournier: No

"He told me he didn't like it," Fournier said MJ told him about Demerol.

Koskoff: Physically, during the time you treated him, did he look well?
Fournier: Yes

Fournier said MJ was very thin and frail in pictures he saw of the singer in 2009. Koskoff asked if MJ was the same as when Fournier treated him. "He was thinner," Fournier responded.

Koskoff: Isn't it true a fit and competent doctor would not give Propofol at home?
Fournier: Correct

Fournier said he uses Demerol in a limited basis. It was popular in the '70s. It's a drug used for pain, analgesic, opioid. "12.5 mg of Demerol is giving intravenously for shivering," Fournier said. The dose if from 12.5-25 mg.

Koskoff: You treated MJ over period of more than 10 years
Fournier: Correct

Fournier said they had a good relationship and MJ was a good patient. But MJ did not followed post-operative recommendations.

Koskoff asked if Fournier was more concerned that Dr. Klein didn't tell him. He said yes. Michael told Dr. Klein about it, Koskoff said. "You expect your clients and your doctors to be honest with you," Fournier explained. Fournier: I was angry at Dr. Klein, I was angry at Michael, I was angry at anyone who knew about it and didn't tell me. Koskoff: Are you still mad? Fournier: No, got over it

Fournier, a certified nurse anesthetist, testified about an incident on June 3, 2003 in which Jackson stopped breathing while under sedation for a procedure with Beverly Hills dermatologist Dr. Arnold Klein. After Jackson suffered a "somewhat bizarre reaction" during the sedation, Klein told Fournier it might be because the singer had an "opioid antagonist" implant. It was intended to help treat a dependence on Demerol, he said."You expect your clients and doctors be honest with you and I felt ambushed and was upset," Fournier testified. The nurse said it made him angry at both Klein and Jackson. (CNN)

Fournier said it's a small community (of anesthesiologists) and everyone talks to everybody about who they are treating. "Sometimes when it involved patient care, we talk to each other," Fournier said. Koskoff: If MJ was concerned that an anesthetist was talking about him having Narcan for drug addiction, would that be a valid concern? Fournier said he didn't understand the question, that he talked to other people treating MJ. Koskoff said there are 200-300 people in the anesthesia community. Fournier: If you're taking care of somebody and if someone else asks you, that's taking care of patient. It's not chattering. Fournier said it's usual for physicians to look at charts to see what kind of treatment was done before and the response he had.


AEG recross

Cahan, in re-direct, asked if 300 mg of Demerol in single intramuscular is a lot. "That's a tremendous amount," Fournier responded. "If you gave it to me I would probably stop breathing," Fournier said.

Fournier: Hiding information from person who's going to take care of you can lead to untoward event.

Cahan asked Fournier to assume MJ, beginning in Nov 2002 to July 2003 placed 5 Naltrexone implants. Cahan: Did MJ ever say he was on any medication whatsoever in April, May and June 2003? Fournier: All of those times Michael denied taking any medication. Cahan: So 3 times in 2003 he did not disclose he had a Naltroxene implant? Fournier: Correct. "He was not telling me the truth," Fournier said.

Fournier said that after he canceled the surgery, MJ never called him again on his birthday and never used his service anymore.

Koskoff asked Fournier if he knows whether Dr. Farshchian told MJ the implant had medication in it. He said he doesn't know. So if MJ didn't say anything about the implant, it could be because he didn't know it was a medication, Koskoff asked. Fournier: I'm going to assume if he's having a surgical procedure to implant something he would know what that is for.

Dr. Klein apologized afterwards for not telling Fournier about the implant.

"Some burn patients get hundreds of anesthesia," Fournier said, and Michael was a burn patient. "I knew he was in the hospital in 1994 after the burn, yes," Fournier said.

During cross-examination, Fournier said Jackson never requested any specific drugs, including propofol, during procedures or asked to be sedated for longer than was necessary. He said the singer didn't exhibit any drug-seeking behavior or signs that he was doctor-shopping. Fournier said he knew that Jackson had received an above-average number of anesthetic treatments over his lifetime, and many were related to procedures needed after Jackson was badly burned in a shoot for a Pepsi commercial in 1984. Fournier said it was not common to administer an anesthetic during cosmetic procedures, but the ones done on Jackson were complex and involved dozens of injections. Some of the procedures were near Jackson's eye and sedation was necessary to keep him still, Fournier said. Fournier also said he never had any indication that the singer was using propofol as a treatment for insomnia. (AP)



Partial Medical record

David Fournier, a nurse anesthetist, treated Jackson between 1993 and 2003. He has record for 2000, 2002 and 2003 only. From 1993 to 2000, there are no medical records. He said he believes he gave MJ Propofol in 2001, but does not have records. He said he did not administer anesthetics after September 2003. Fournier said his incomplete medical records show he administered propofol to Jackson at least 14 times between 2000 and 2003. He estimated he gave the singer the drug numerous other times over the years for a variety of cosmetic and dental procedures. Some of the 25 times he was hired to assist with Jackson's procedures no drugs were given, he said. He would just hold his hand and assure him it would be all right.

1993: He first sedated Jackson in 1993 when he was being treated for serious scalp burns suffered while filming a Pepsi commercial several years earlier, he said.

19 Jan 2000 : Weight: 130 lbs

14 Nov 2000 :Weight: 130 lbs , Mentions Versed, 5 mg, Very high tolerance noted, Vitals stable

"He was taking a little bit more than I'd anticipate to keep him comfortable," Fournier said.
Fournier's normal starting dose is 1 mg of Versed. This was a dental procedure.

11 April 2002: Omar Arnold, Weight: 132 lbs , Dr. Koplin, Multiple collagen injections , Additional drugs given -- Propofol 140 mg

24 April 2003 : No problem

13 May 2003: weight 135 lbs , difficult IV place, difficult monitoring anesthesia, high tolerance of medication.

Medical record from May 13, 2003: Height: 72 inches (6 feet) , Weight: 140 lbs , Allergy: Demerol , Medications: Denied
Remifentanil, high dose, developed tolerance
Propofol -- 240 mg
"Other than difficult IV placement and high tolerance to medication, he did fine"

2 June 2003 : Dr. Klein , Multiple derm procedures, Weight: 140 lbs , Denies any medical or medication changes , Three days ago slurred speech, heard on the phone.
opiates: Remifentanil

June 2, 2003 is the date MJ had an apnea episode. At some point Jackson had an unusual reaction, and Fournier controlled his ventilation for couple of minutes, it happened again, lightened him up, assisted one more time with his breathing.

Late august / September 2003: Fournier refused to participate in a medical procedure. Jackson was acting "goofy" and was slow to respond to standard questions before a scheduled cosmetic surgery that was canceled after Fournier refused to administer an anesthetic, he said.

 

[ivy]

Jacksons vs AEG - Day 57 – July 26 2013 – Summary

(source : ABC7 unless otherwise indicated)


Dr. Scott Saunders video deposition

Attorney Adam Hunt did the questioning.

Dr. Scott Saunders graduated in 1997 from Brigham Young University, attended medical school at UCLA. Currently, Dr. Saunders works at Buellton Medical Center with Dr. Barnie Van Valin. There's also Dr. Debra Weinstein, who worked at Santa Inez Valley Cottage Hospital.

Dr. Saunders writes a blog entitles "The Love Triangle." Published on Saturday, Sept. 10, 2011: "I had a friend, Michael Jackson, who was very lonely because he didn't love. There were very few people he could trust and love."

Hunt asked how they became friends. Dr. Saunders said MJ invited him to his ranch. He didn't remember when but it was less than 15 years ago

Hunt: Did MJ ever come to you for medical treatement?
Dr. Saunders: Yes
H: For what?
Dr. S: I don't recall

He also didn't recall when MJ went to see him. Dr. Saunders worked at the Buellton Medical Center from 1998 to 2003, saw MJ within that time. Dr. Saunders: I received a phone call from a woman who declined to identify herself and asked if I would be willing to make a house call. "And I said yes and she gave me the address," the doctor said.Hunt: Did you treat MJ that day? Dr. Saunders: Yes. "He had an upper respiratory infection," Dr. Saunders said. Dr. Saunders said he drove to Neverland, there was a kiosk at the entrance of the house, he pushed the button, followed a car to a house. Someone let him in, he waited at the entrance for about half an hour. Dr. Saunders: Someone, a man, came when I was ready to leave. Dr. Saunders: He and took me in to a bedroom. There was a guy lying on the bed, he said 'I am Michael Jackson.' Dr. Saunders: I said nice to meet you, Mr. Jackson. And he said 'I'm sick.' Dr. Saunders did not recognized the man on the bed as MJ. He said the room was dark. There was a keypad that the man pushed a series of buttons and the door opened, the doctor testified.

Dr. Saunders works with Dr. Van Valin, but has not spoken to him about MJ's treatment. He saw MJ and Dr. Van Valin together. "We were all at a gathering at MJ's ranch, we watched a movie in his theater," Dr. Saunders said. He thinks it was Spiderman movie.

There were other times Dr. Saunders treated MJ, but he doesn't know how many. He said it's around 10 times, probably less than 25 times.
Hunt: What other medical conditions you treated him for?
Dr. Saunders: pain, that's all I remember

Dr.Saunders gave MJ pain medication for his pain. He doesn't recall which drugs.

Hunt: Do you recall giving Mr. Jackson Demerol?
Dr. Saunders: I don't recall

The doctor said he recalls using buprenorphine (buprenex) in injectable form. It is in the same class as an opiate medication.

Hunt: Do you know if he did receive other opiate medications from anyone?
Dr. Saunders: Yes
H: How do you know?
Dr. S: He told me

MJ told the doctor he wanted to get off pain medications.

Dr. Saunders: He said 'I don't want to end up like my father-in-law'
Hunt: Who was his father in law?
Dr. Saunders: Elvis Presley

Dr. Saunders said he gave MJ buprenorphine because it is an opiate agonist-antagonist, used to treat pain but tends to be less addictive.
Hunt: Did Michael Jackson ask you specifically for buprenorphine?
Dr. Saunders: Yes
Hunt: Do patients typically ask for specific medication?
Dr. Saunders: People who take pain medications know what works for them, so yes
Hunt: Did Michael ever tell you about getting an implant to help address his addiction to pain medication?
Dr. Saunders: No

Dr Saunders said he never heard the name Dr. Fashchian and that MJ never told him about any other doctor going to Neverland and treating him. The doctor said he gave pain medication to MJ. He had been to the ER with the artist at Santa Inez Cottage Hospital. He doesn't recall when.
Hunt: Why did you go?
Dr. Saunders: He called me because he had fallen I think on the stairs and had a foot problem.
Dr. Saunders: I think it was a foot problem, I went to see him, evaluated him, it appeared swollen, I recommended X-ray, took him in my car. "I helped him in," Dr. Saunders said about their arrival to the emergency room because MJ was having trouble walking. "I don't believe I stayed there. I probably went home to my family," Dr. Saunders testified. Dr. Saunders doesn't recall if he gave any pain medication to MJ before going to the ER.

Dr. Saunders said he was friends with Michael Jackson. They talked about everything. "He was rather lonely and didn't have anyone he could trust," Dr. Saunders said. "He would call me and I would go over." Dr. Saunders: Sometimes we would drive around the ranch in his Navigator and talk, would sit at the video library and talk, or in an office. "And sometimes I'd be saying 'you know I really got to go home to my family' and 'No, no Saunders, just stay a little while' the doctor said. Dr. Saunders: He said he had a very difficult childhood, because he was never allowed to be a child. MJ never talked about his father, Joe Jackson, and how he treated him. MJ went to Dr. Saunders house in Solvang, met his wife and children. "He just showed up," Dr. Saunders said. "The driver took him there, he knocked on the door." One time MJ's kids were present and they wanted to go outside in the sandbox. Dr. Saunders said this was the same time he saw MJ socially. Saunders: He sent box to my house for Xmas. I don't recall what was in the box. I think my children got aPS2. But whatever else don't know. Hunt: The presents were for the family? Dr. Saunders: Yes. "He left a popcorn popper, like the ones at carnivals, on the stand," Dr. Saunders said. Hunt: Do you have it? Dr. Saunders: No, I sold it at a garage sale

Saunders said he and Jackson eventually became friends. “He was rather lonely and didn’t have anyone he could trust,” Saunders testified. And so he would call me and I would go over." When Saunders would tell Jackson he had to go home to his family, the singer would try to persuade him to stay, the doctor said.The doctor said Jackson told him “he had a very difficult childhood” and had never had an opportunity to be a child, though he did recount “running around hotels with Donny Osmond, that kind of thing.” Jackson and his children would show up unannounced at the doctor's house in Solvang, Saunders testified. A driver would bring him, he said, and Jackson would just knock on the door."Were you surprised when he got there," Saunders was asked. Yes," he replied. (LATimes)
The doctor said he doesn't know anything MJ did to protect his medical privacy.

Hunt: What medication was he on?
Dr. Saunders: The only two I knew of where Demerol and Morphine.
Dr. Saunders: and I think I gave him oral pain medicaiton, don't know which, Vicodin type of thing.
Dr. Saunders said MJ wanted to get off of Demerol. "He asked to use beprenorphine instead," Dr. Saunders said. Dr. Saunders said he doesn't know if MJ's attempt to quit Demerol was successful. The doctor never went with him outside California.

"One time he was telling me about going to Las Vegas, how much he liked Las Vegas, buying things," Dr. Saunders testified. "He would go to the stores and say I want that, and that, antiques. He was really into antiques," Dr. Saunders recalled. "He said he knew them all, he knew which ones were his," Dr. Saunders said. The house of full of everything including antiques.

Hunt: Were you compensated when you provided treatment to MJ?
Dr. Saunders: I never asked for compensation and he would pay cash.
Dr. Saunders: He would always pay in cash because he didn't have no credit, no checks, no bank account.
Hunt: How do you know?
Dr. Saunders: He told me. I said I'd send bill he said you can't, I don't have any checks or credit cards or anything

Medical record from Feb 24, 2001 from Santa Inez Valley Cottage Hospital saying male who fell down the stairs a couple of days ago. Document says "his primary care physician is Scott Saunders." The doctor said he thinks it's because he brought MJ there. Emergency Department Course: "Given his inability to take oral pain medication without extreme nausea we have worked out with Dr. Saunders to dispense Demerol and Phenergan IM with some needles and syringes. I have specifically stated a medical care professional, a physician or nurse, must administer this medication should he need it. He is well aware of this, and in fact, Dr. Saunders has agreed to go by the home to administer the medication if needed." Another section of the medical record: "We have dispensed the Demerol and Phenergan IM with needles and syringes. He is well aware that a physician or nurse must administer this and he will be calling Dr. Saunders tonight. "Disposition: Discharged to home. Follow up with Dr. Saunders some time next week."

Dr Saunders said this medical record did not refresh his recollection and doesn't recall anything about it and/or speaking with Dr Weinstein. The doctor said the ER doctors treat the initial emergency and then send the patient to their doctor for follow up.

Medical record from 02/25/2001 -- Emergency Department Report "History if Present Illness: This is a 30-something-year-old gentleman who has been here twice before, actually, earlier this evening although it is now the next day, but he has been seen twice. He has an avulsion of the proximal navicular of the foot and has required copious amounts of pain medication who returns again in severe pain, no further trauma, no paresthesias and states that he Demerol which we gave on him last visit has worn off and he feels the pain escalating." Private Physician: Currently Dr. Scott Saunders Allergies: None

Hunt: Have you heard of MJ requiring copious amounts of pain medication before?
Dr. Saunders: I have never heard that word used, no
Dr. Saunders said he's listed as primary doctor because he brought MJ to ER or because the patient said 'this is my doctor.'
Dr. Saunders said he never determined the underlying cause of MJ's addiction to painkillers and that MJ never told him anything about it.

Medical report from 2/26/2001:
History of Present Illness: The patient is here because he had a fractured cuboid on his right foot. He has been seen multiple times for pain medication injections. He receives Demerol 200 mg and 50 mg of Vistaril each time. Today, he was casted by Dr. Scott Saunders and is feeling somewhat better but is having some pain in his foot. At this point, it feels better in the cast.

Medical report from 12/14/2001: The patient is a 41-year-old black male who was brought in by Dr. Scott Saunders from the patient's home. Prior to his arrival, Dr. Saunders had called me saying the patient had an injection of Demerol 200 mg and Phenergan 50 mg which he has had on a number of occasions in the past and did well. "Dr. Saunders had told me upon arrival to the emergency room that he obtained further information that the patient had another pain injection at sometime prior to Dr. Saunders' arrival that Dr. Saunders was not aware of. The patient only told him this after his reaction had occurred."

Hunt: Do you know if MJ was ever able to stop taking large amounts of Demerol?
Dr. Saunders: I don't know

Dr. Saunders does not know if MJ continued to receive Demerol injections after he stopped treating him in 2003.

The doctor doesn't have any idea who the other doctor was that gave MJ injection of pain medication on the same day.
Hunt: Does it bother you that MJ got or may have gotten a shot of Demerol by another physician without telling you?
Dr Saunders: Generally yes, that's a bothersome thing. Because the potential reaction or problems associated with Demerol are dose dependent So as you increase the dose, the potential for doing harm is increased. So if I am going out to give Demerol injection because of his broken foot, and meanwhile, some other doctor's going out there and giving him Demerol injections and it's too much too close together, he could have a bad reaction.

Medical record: "He has a med-alert bracelet saying he is allergic to Demerol." "When questioned, he says he had has Demerol many times in the past. Indeed, I administered Demerol to him at one time. He tells me this because he does not want to be 'given too much Demerol.' He has no specific reaction to Demerol itself. He tells me he has also tolerated Phenergan on numerous occasions in the past without difficulty."

Dr. Saunders said you wear med-alert if there's some reason you're likely to be found unconscious and not able to tell your allergies.
Hunt: And can high dosage of Demerol cause unconsciousness?
Dr. Saunders: Yes


Eric Briggs Testimony

AEG Direct

AEG attorney Sabrina Strong did the direct examination. Briggs is an expert witness in this case. He was asked to assess the projections of Arthur Erk, plaintiffs' retained expert.

Briggs studies Economy at Brown University and received his MBA at Anderson School at UCLA. Briggs is a senior management director at FTI Consulting and professor at USC Marshall School of Business. Briggs said he helps a media company put together forecast and assess risks of projects. Entertainment and media projects: looked at films, music, touring, video games, live events, pretty much everything. Briggs said he gets hired by film producers, production companies, record labels, banks and private equity that invest money. He has done work for talent agencies as well, like Creative Artist and William Morris. Other clients: Estate of Elvis Presley, John Wayne, Frank Sinatra, Bob Hope, among others. Briggs has worked in over 1100 engagements, 300 of those related to the music industry, like Rod Stewart,Bruno Mars, 50 Cent, Usher. Briggs has also worked in endorsement deals.

Strong: How many film engagements have you had over the course of your career?
Briggs: Probably 600

Briggs said some of his predictions have been inaccurate. "I don't have a crystal ball," he said. He has been doing forecast in the entertainment business for 15 years. He has testified once in an England tax matter, equivalent to our IRS, and on an arbitration case. Briggs mostly worked for companies that actively spend money in films.

FTI Consulting has about 4,000 employees worldwide. Briggs is charging $800 an hour. He has spent approximately 350 hours. Briggs has a team working on this matter, roughly 500-600 hours. Personnel on the team charge between $300-$800 per hour. Briggs said he has had significant involvement in most of the 1100 cases he worked on. "I'm not taking credit for somebody else."

Strong showed exhibit with Erk's Opinions:
- Tour
- Merchandise
- Endorsement/Sponsorship
- Las Vegas show
- Movies

Briggs said he analyzed the first four opinions by Erk, since Erk didn't project earnings for movies. Briggs did not analyze Mr. Erk's consumption numbers. Briggs overarching opinion on topics:
1- It's speculative whether these projects would occurred
2- The numbers projected are speculative

"My understanding is that damages cannot be speculative and I didn't want to prepare a speculative," Briggs said.

MJ had a prolific career which resulted in a catalogue that results in a lot of money every year. Briggs did not analyze that. He said he looked at income MJ would've generated for performing, going on tour. "My opinion relates to opinion MJ would have generated by working," Briggs said.

Strong showed an exhibit with "Erk's TII Tour: Speculative"
- No agreement beyond 50 shows
- MJ's drug use
- MJ's history of cancellations
- World tour depends on completion of 50 shows
- Performance Risk
- Execution Risk

"As of the date of death, there was no agreement that AEG or MJ would go beyond 50 shows," Briggs said. Briggs: MJ had a significant history of drug use, and this was significant to render my opinion. "There's significant testimony on the record from four medical doctors in this case regarding MJ's drug use," Briggs explained. Briggs: As part of my job, I'm asked to analyze all sorts of things, including drug use for someone who needs to perform. "It's all about the same thing: the risks," Briggs said. "My conclusion, based on the evidence presented, MJ's life expectancy was very short as of June 2009," Briggs said. "MJ was taking drugs in very dangerous ways, had history of taking drugs that had a long lasting impact on his health," he opined. Briggs: MJ had a unique history of great performance but cancellations, particularly in cases where they were practically certain to happen. The expert said MJ canceled a number of dates on Dangerous tour to enter rehab, canceled HBO special in 1995. Also, the Millennium concert didn't take place, theTwo Seas arrangement where nothing came of it. "The world tour depends on the completion of the 50 tours," Briggs said. "There's always a risk of whether the audience will perform and whether the artist will show up," Briggs testified. He said Guns N Roses, U2, Lady Gaga, Van Halen -- all cancelled shows that were pretty certain to happen. Those aspects helped shape Briggs opinion that Erk's projections were speculative.

"The four additional tours are also entirely speculative," Briggs said. They were based on Erk's personal opinion.

Briggs: MJ had agreed to do 50 shows when he died and was actively engaged in rehearsals.
Strong: Do you have an opinion on whether MJ would have completed the 50 shows at the O2?
"My opinion is that it's speculative whether the 50 shows would have been completed," Briggs said. "There was a significant heath risk in place and the length of the tour exceeded 9 months," Briggs explained.