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Joe Jackson on Spanking Kept Michael Out Of Gangs When He Was A Kid

gerryevans said:
That's just it. Sometimes it is impossible to keep children away from negative influences. If a kid is drafted in a gang, his father can beat him to stay out of it, but that doesn't mean the gang isn't beating him too because he isn't joining.

And lets not forget, MJ's "Bad." The song was derived from the story of a kid who went out of the neighborhood to school and when he came back to his neighborhood, he was killed by gang members because he wasn't one of them. The kids father beating him too certainly wouldn't have helped.

There are no easy answers in these kinds of situations. A strong father can make a big difference, but that doesn't mean he has to be an abuser, and that's what Joe was.
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I totally agree. As one poster above satated, it was like a ritual. " Joe would
make them strip naked and use oil or wet sand in a sock to beat them"? That is a sick.
I would threathen my kids with the belt and one day my son then 4yrs old called the LAPD and told them, "my dad is spaking me with the belt". Here comes the copes and told my huband "that corprol punishment is against the law and you can not hit your child".
So our next alternative was the "time out or punishment rule". If they doidn't clean their room, they couldn't do a certain activity.
As a parent, I had to learn how to discipline with/out spanking. In todays world we use redirection, get down own the child's eye level and tell the how they have hurt someone/or something; talking to them so that they would understand that their behavior is bad, not them. It works!
 
mjistheonlyone said:
yes, wasn't Joe who introduced Murray to Michael?:ermm:
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No that was a rumour. There are a lot of stories about how Michael met Murray but the correct seems to be that one of the kids fell ill in Vegas and Michael called a doctor which was Murray as he was the hotel doctor at the time.
 
mjistheonlyone said:
I totally agree. As one poster above satated, it was like a ritual. " Joe would
make them strip naked and use oil or wet sand in a sock to beat them"? That is a sick.
I would threathen my kids with the belt and one day my son then 4yrs old called the LAPD and told them, "my dad is spaking me with the belt". Here comes the copes and told my huband "that corprol punishment is against the law and you can not hit your child".
So our next alternative was the "time out or punishment rule". If they doidn't clean their room, they couldn't do a certain activity.
As a parent, I had to learn how to discipline with/out spanking. In todays world we use redirection, get down own the child's eye level and tell the how they have hurt someone/or something; talking to them so that they would understand that their behavior is bad, not them. It works!
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so true yet ppl are eager to dismiss Josephs behavior as just ''spankings'':(
 
Sophielo said:
No that was a rumour. There are a lot of stories about how Michael met Murray but the correct seems to be that one of the kids fell ill in Vegas and Michael called a doctor which was Murray as he was the hotel doctor at the time.
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OIC...just wonderinfg if that rumore was false or true. Thanks i have never known anyone speak of their father going over and above corprol punishisment other than those terrorist in Guantanimo Bay. They probably dersired it but NO children should have to taken a beating like Joe did to his family. It;s judacrist!!! We're talking physcal and emotional pain. Its a mircle see they were live to tell they they survive.

Every now and then, Joe raises his ugly head espcially now he has Oxma!
 
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twinklEE said:
so true yet ppl are eager to dismiss Josephs behavior as just ''spankings'':(
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What is the excuse for this. When the window and the bedroom was left open at night instead of waken them up and making them close it Joe would climb through the window with a monster mask on, Nah that would not give a child nightmares
 
mjistheonlyone said:
OIC...just wonderinfg if that rumore was false or true. Thanks i have never known anyone speak of their father going over and above corprol punishisment other than those terrorist in Guantanimo Bay. They probably dersired it but NO children should have to taken a beating like Joe did to his family. It;s judacrist!!! We're talking physcal and emotional pain. Its a mircle see they were live to tell they they survive.

Every now and then, Joe raises his ugly head espcially now he has Oxma!
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But haven't the siblings all denied the abuse, at least the level of abuse that Michael described? Jermaine and the others just dismiss it as their father being "strict" and "tough" on them and even going so far as to imply that Michael sometimes deserved it because he fought back (according to one interview I saw on TV). It's amazing they are all from the same family.
 
suzynyc said:
But haven't the siblings all denied the abuse, at least the level of abuse that Michael described? Jermaine and the others just dismiss it as their father being "strict" and "tough" on them and even going so far as to imply that Michael sometimes deserved it because he fought back (according to one interview I saw on TV). It's amazing they are all from the same family.
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denied it now after his death to paint the picture off a perfect family in vain, during an american dream their ghosts were talking to the writers
 
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Meh, I kind of wish the subject of how the Jackson kids were brought up would be laid to rest as far as people who weren't there to witness everything that went on in their household. I definitely do think the way Michael was raised played a major role in his emotional trauma and I do believe Joe went overboard, but it always turns into a case where everything MJ says always weighs heavier than everything Joe says simply because he's Michael, so it's not even fair. Saying that the upbringing of the Jackson boys kept them out of gangs is potentially a very valid claim, but those who look at everything with a "___ vs. Michael" mentality are going to rip it to shreds because Michael wins every time.
 
Grand Master S said:
Meh, I kind of wish the subject of how the Jackson kids were brought up would be laid to rest as far as people who weren't there to witness everything that went on in their household. I definitely do think the way Michael was raised played a major role in his emotional trauma and I do believe Joe went overboard, but it always turns into a case where everything MJ says always weighs heavier than everything Joe says simply because he's Michael, so it's not even fair. Saying that the upbringing of the Jackson boys kept them out of gangs is potentially a very valid claim, but those who look at everything with a "___ vs. Michael" mentality are going to rip it to shreds because Michael wins every time.
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First, this is an MJ board, not Joe Jackson board, simple as that. Plus, it don't make no sense just to try to listen to an assailant's side of the story. Is it ever worth spending energy doing that? I choose to listen to a victim's side of the story.
"No matter what, he is his father"-get rid of this concept. Just becuz someone is someone else's father, it does not guarantee that there's love and warmth underneath it all.

Second, the part in bold, do you really think Joe Jackson did what he did in order to raise his kids right, like keeping them out of gangs? If that had been what was on his mind, he wouldn't have acted like that. The way he beat the sh*t out of Mike, he took it out on him. Whatever issues he was dealing with, be it tendency to be a control freak, severe stress, lack of self-esteem, etc., the beating served as a convenient means to solve those issues at least temporarily.
He was not a disciplinarian nor an educator that every parent and teacher is supposed to be. He was an abuser using violence as his weapon to shield himself from his own fears.

Wake up.​
 
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suzynyc said:
But haven't the siblings all denied the abuse, at least the level of abuse that Michael described?
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well on the first episode of the brothers realitshow (jackson family a dynasty) when Tito and Marlon go back to Gary, Indiana.. Tito asks Marlon if he believed their father were too rough on them and Marlons answer is "Yes"
 
Grand Master S said:
Meh, I kind of wish the subject of how the Jackson kids were brought up would be laid to rest as far as people who weren't there to witness everything that went on in their household. I definitely do think the way Michael was raised played a major role in his emotional trauma and I do believe Joe went overboard, but it always turns into a case where everything MJ says always weighs heavier than everything Joe says simply because he's Michael, so it's not even fair. Saying that the upbringing of the Jackson boys kept them out of gangs is potentially a very valid claim, but those who look at everything with a "___ vs. Michael" mentality are going to rip it to shreds because Michael wins every time.
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So are you saying Michael was lying and you believe Joe over him?

I have to believe Michael. I don't think he would make such things up. The most revealing accounts have been caught in candid recordings so that's proof enough for me. Besides, he has more credibility than Joe.
 
Vici said:
well on the first episode of the brothers realitshow (jackson family a dynasty) when Tito and Marlon go back to Gary, Indiana.. Tito asks Marlon if he believed their father were too rough on them and Marlons answer is "Yes"
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Oh, thanks. I don't remember that. It's been so long.
 
suzynyc said:
I understand being strict and protective with your children to save them from getting into trouble. I can even understand "spanking" once in a while (though I personally don't believe in hitting a child). I even get that those were different times in the 50's & 60's when parents hitting their kids wasn't a big deal like it is these days. But I cannot ignore Michael's own words describing how his father abused him. Sure, the media twists things but we have all heard Michael with our own ears describe how his father treated him. He's all but saying Michael was lying. In my opinion, Joe's methods of "discipline" were abusive - even for those days. Joe should have regrets about what he did because it's obvious how much it affected Michael (not sure about the others).

Edit: There was also emotional abuse as well as physical, according to Michael's own words.
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Well said. Imagine what it would have meant to Michael if Joe had just once said "I'm sorry, I never should have hit you, I love you and I'm proud of you." Joe's abuse set Michael up for all the misery he endured later in life. He was looking for approval, love and acceptance that he never got from his father--he has said as much in various interviews. It was Joe's remarks about Michael's nose that made him so selfconscious, and anyone who picks up on how sensitive Michael is should know he did not need to be beaten. If Michael fainted or threw up at the sight of his father, he was getting more than a spanking. I for one believe Michael's version of events, and they have been supported by Marlon and LaToya. Joe should own up or shut up.
 
all i am going to say on this subject is that Michael Jackson was the most emotionally together human being i have ever witnessed. i don't think he was messed up. he said, himself..'i am very very very strong'. and he was right.
 
Joe Jackson's memory is very selective! He can recall 'disciplining' Michael to keep him out of gangs (I presume this was pre-Motown). Because his statement implies that he ceased 'disciplining' Michael in that way once it was celar Michael had no intention of joining a gang.

But wait ....

The 'discipline' continued well after that time. Perhaps Joe Jackson does not recall what happened during the Motown years after that.

Yes, some can acknowledge that Joe Jackson had reason to be concerned about the danger of his boys joining a gang. But I don't know if we can isolate certain periods of 'discipline' and say there are okay and look at other periods and see them as abusive. For me, if Joe Jackson was instilling his 'discipline' solely for the protection of his children THEN IT SHOULD HAVE STOPPED after it was clear there was no danger of that. BUT IT DID NOT!!!!
 
TheChosenOne said:
Joe Jackson's memory is very selective! He can recall 'disciplining' Michael to keep him out of gangs (I presume this was pre-Motown). Because his statement implies that he ceased 'disciplining' Michael in that way once it was celar Michael had no intention of joining a gang.

But wait ....

The 'discipline' continued well after that time. Perhaps Joe Jackson does not recall what happened during the Motown years after that.

Yes, some can acknowledge that Joe Jackson had reason to be concerned about the danger of his boys joining a gang. But I don't know if we can isolate certain periods of 'discipline' and say there are okay and look at other periods and see them as abusive. For me, if Joe Jackson was instilling his 'discipline' solely for the protection of his children THEN IT SHOULD HAVE STOPPED after it was clear there was no danger of that. BUT IT DID NOT!!!!
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:clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping:
 
144 said:
all i am going to say on this subject is that Michael Jackson was the most emotionally together human being i have ever witnessed. i don't think he was messed up. he said, himself..'i am very very very strong'. and he was right.
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I agree that Michael was very strong in many ways. He was a fighter...with rhinoceros skin as he called it. I'll bet what he had been through as a child only made him stronger in some ways - just as some rough times I had as a child has made me stronger and what I am today. But it is also evident how much he was treated by his father hurt him. It's very obvious in the look in his eyes as he describes it, and in the words he uses. I even think most of the reasons why he altered his appearance so much was due to the cruel words from his father. I'm open to being wrong about that but that's what I think.
 
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suzynyc said:
I agree that Michael was very strong in many ways. He was a fighter...with rhinoceros skin as he called it. I'll bet what he had been through as a child only made him stronger in some ways - just as some rough times I had as a child has made me stronger and what I am today. But it is also evident how much he was treated by his father hurt him. It's very obvious in the look in his eyes as he describes it, and in the words he uses. I even think most of the reasons why he altered his appearance so much was due to the cruel words from his father. I'm open to being wrong about that but that's what I think.
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well, the part about his appearance might have been partly due to his father..though that has nothing to do with spanking...but it might also have something to do with what Michael said about people in society calling him ugly, at a certain time in his life. and since plastic surgery is extremely popular amongst most the world, and certainly people in hollywood...well..society is cruel as a whole..so..Michael is not unique when it comes to the appearance thing. It only took one comment from Bill Oreilly to get Kim Kardashian...that's right, Kim Kardashian, to get botox.
 
144 said:
well, the part about his appearance might have been partly due to his father..though that has nothing to do with spanking...but it might also have something to do with what Michael said about people in society calling him ugly, at a certain time in his life. and since plastic surgery is extremely popular amongst most the world, and certainly people in hollywood...well..society is cruel as a whole..so..Michael is not unique when it comes to the appearance thing. It only took one comment from Bill Oreilly to get Kim Kardashian...that's right, Kim Kardashian, to get botox.
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Yeah part of Michael changing his appearance can be traced back to Joe/ other people's teasing and rude comments but Michael also had people who I am sure told he he was handsome/ beautiful. We will never know who it feels to grow up in the spotlight and be judged contantly and then on top of already being a shy and insecure person develop a skin disorder. I think Michale was trying to do what he felt was best for himself and if you don't like something, change it. He did not invent plastic surgery, it happenes all around the world constantly. Alot of what the media says are rude exaggerations, they don't take anything into account. How many other celebrities are constantly compared to themselves as a kid?
 
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