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Joe Jackson on Spanking Kept Michael Out Of Gangs When He Was A Kid

"I had to be like that because when raising him, in those days, so many gangs out there getting into trouble, going to jail. Most of them are dead now. He didn't have to worry about that."
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What a poor excuse. How on earth would Michael ever get in touch with gangs if he's working practically 24/7 since the age of 5? :smilerolleyes:
 
LindavG said:
What a poor excuse. How on earth would Michael ever get in touch with gangs if he's working practically 24/7 since the age of 5? :smilerolleyes:
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He could have. Tito was pressured to joining a gang as a child one day when he was walking home from school but as soon as Joe found out he made him quit and he threatened the other gang members to stay away from him. When you have so many children and you are working especially in a lower class neighborhood kids tend to follow the actions of their peers or are pressured into joing gangs. Michael and his brothers credit their father for keeping them out of trouble in the streets.
 
This new age, so-called enlightened stuff about 'no spanking' and 'spanking is child abuse' is a bunch of crap. That's one of the big reasons we have so many out of control kids out here. There is a big difference between spanking as a means of discipline and out right abuse. Now do I think Joe went too far with the physical discipline? Yes I do; but I understand why he did it. And his sons, MICHAEL INCLUDED, understood why Joe did what he did even though they felt he was harsh with them.

Joe had 9 children, 6 of them were boys. They lived in a neighborhood where there were two roads for a black kid to go on. One of the roads lead to jail or an early death. Joe could not afford to be a wimpy father. He had to keep them in line and on track and the best way he (as well as many fathers back then) knew how was to be tough, strict disciplinarian. And Joe was right, the boys were not in any gangs, they weren't shooting up dope, they didn't get in trouble with law. They knew Joe and Katherine were not going to stand for any bull. And it made them hard-working, determined, resilient and tough. Michael, after he became a father himself, began to understand Joe more and he and Joe did grow closer these past few years and Michael even though over the years expressed sadness and anger over Joe's harshness, Michael was the first to always credit Joe in instilling that work ethic in him that carried him through his career. Compare that to what happened to kids who didn't have a father in the house and were practically raising themselves. Or kids who had permissive parents who didn't discipline there kids at all; but were seeking popularity and friendship with their kids instead.
 
I understand being strict and protective with your children to save them from getting into trouble. I can even understand "spanking" once in a while (though I personally don't believe in hitting a child). I even get that those were different times in the 50's & 60's when parents hitting their kids wasn't a big deal like it is these days. But I cannot ignore Michael's own words describing how his father abused him. Sure, the media twists things but we have all heard Michael with our own ears describe how his father treated him. He's all but saying Michael was lying. In my opinion, Joe's methods of "discipline" were abusive - even for those days. Joe should have regrets about what he did because it's obvious how much it affected Michael (not sure about the others).

Edit: There was also emotional abuse as well as physical, according to Michael's own words.
 
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Joe Jackson was wrong to abuse Michael Jackson.
Even now he will not allow Michael Jackson to rest in peace.
Joe Jackson is "full of cramp".
 
enlightenu said:
This new age, so-called enlightened stuff about 'no spanking' and 'spanking is child abuse' is a bunch of crap. That's one of the big reasons we have so many out of control kids out here. There is a big difference between spanking as a means of discipline and out right abuse. Now do I think Joe went too far with the physical discipline? Yes I do; but I understand why he did it. And his sons, MICHAEL INCLUDED, understood why Joe did what he did even though they felt he was harsh with them.

Joe had 9 children, 6 of them were boys. They lived in a neighborhood where there were two roads for a black kid to go on. One of the roads lead to jail or an early death. Joe could not afford to be a wimpy father. He had to keep them in line and on track and the best way he (as well as many fathers back then) knew how was to be tough, strict disciplinarian. And Joe was right, the boys were not in any gangs, they weren't shooting up dope, they didn't get in trouble with law. They knew Joe and Katherine were not going to stand for any bull. And it made them hard-working, determined, resilient and tough. Michael, after he became a father himself, began to understand Joe more and he and Joe did grow closer these past few years and Michael even though over the years expressed sadness and anger over Joe's harshness, Michael was the first to always credit Joe in instilling that work ethic in him that carried him through his career. Compare that to what happened to kids who didn't have a father in the house and were practically raising themselves. Or kids who had permissive parents who didn't discipline there kids at all; but were seeking popularity and friendship with their kids instead.
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There's a big difference between "spanking" your child out of discipline and abusing them like Joe did. Beating your child with iron chords, switches and belts (to which Joe admitted) merely for missing a dance step IS child abuse, no matter what decade it took place. When your child, even as an adult, is so afraid of his father that his presence alone makes him regurgitate, there is something terribly wrong. Even if you dismiss the physical abuse as "old-school parenting", there is still the emotional abuse that is often even more damaging than physical abuse. Letting a 5-year-old kid perform in strip clubs is abuse. Sleeping around with groupies (and even making one pregnant) while your teenage son is in the next room is abuse. Telling your already insecure child that he is ugly and has a big nose is abuse. Just because the Jackson 5 eventually reached commercial success, doesn't make everything right. If your neighbours had talented kids, would you allow them to treat them the way Joe treated his children? I know I wouldn't. And Michael has a very forgiving nature, he would probably forgive JC and GA too if they apologized to him, but that doesn't make their actions OK. I admire Michael for forgiving his father and I can understand it too in a way, like he said "I want a father and this is the only one I've got" but I don't think they were ever close.
 
suzynyc said:
I understand being strict and protective with your children to save them from getting into trouble. I can even understand "spanking" once in a while (though I personally don't believe in hitting a child). I even get that those were different times in the 50's & 60's when parents hitting their kids wasn't a big deal like it is these days. But I cannot ignore Michael's own words describing how his father abused him. Sure, the media twists things but we have all heard Michael with our own ears describe how his father treated him. He's all but saying Michael was lying. In my opinion, Joe's methods of "discipline" were abusive - even for those days. Joe should have regrets about what he did because it's obvious how much it affected Michael (not sure about the others).

Edit: There was also emotional abuse as well as physical, according to Michael's own words.
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Exactly! -_-
 
enlightenu said:
This new age, so-called enlightened stuff about 'no spanking' and 'spanking is child abuse' is a bunch of crap. That's one of the big reasons we have so many out of control kids out here. There is a big difference between spanking as a means of discipline and out right abuse. Now do I think Joe went too far with the physical discipline? Yes I do; but I understand why he did it. And his sons, MICHAEL INCLUDED, understood why Joe did what he did even though they felt he was harsh with them.

Joe had 9 children, 6 of them were boys. They lived in a neighborhood where there were two roads for a black kid to go on. One of the roads lead to jail or an early death. Joe could not afford to be a wimpy father. He had to keep them in line and on track and the best way he (as well as many fathers back then) knew how was to be tough, strict disciplinarian. And Joe was right, the boys were not in any gangs, they weren't shooting up dope, they didn't get in trouble with law. They knew Joe and Katherine were not going to stand for any bull. And it made them hard-working, determined, resilient and tough. Michael, after he became a father himself, began to understand Joe more and he and Joe did grow closer these past few years and Michael even though over the years expressed sadness and anger over Joe's harshness, Michael was the first to always credit Joe in instilling that work ethic in him that carried him through his career. Compare that to what happened to kids who didn't have a father in the house and were practically raising themselves. Or kids who had permissive parents who didn't discipline there kids at all; but were seeking popularity and friendship with their kids instead.
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Tell me in which century was it OK for a father to oil down a child before beating him?
 
Joe Jackson sounds like a broken record. I'm sick and tired of the sh*t.

You can spank your child to teach them a lesson, but it can still be called discipline or education as long as it's done properly. But what Joe Jackson did does not belong to either of the categories. It's called "abuse".

There IS a difference between discipline and abuse. Remember that, if you didn't know already.​
 
what a freaking sadis, what he did had nothing to do with spanking, and no hitting ur kid as young as 5/6/7/8/9/10 has as little to do with keeping ur kid out of gangs as abusing ur kid when he is /11/12/13/14 and already a star living in sunny California, in Hollywood. this senile old **** should at least own up now, to what he did and what damage his actioons caused. Ppl as effing old as him arent so goddamn obnoxios for f***s sake!
 
Memefan said:
Tell me in which century was it OK for a father to oil down a child before beating him?
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First of all, if you have read my post entirely you would have seen that I said Joe went TOO FAR with the physical discipline. However, as harsh as he was, I understand where he was coming from and why HE felt he had to be tough with them---even if you, I or others don't agree with his methods.

I know it's an unwritten rule that mentioning Joe Jackson is to AUTOMATICALLY come with insults and lists of chapters and verses of his faults; but I stand by what I said and if I feel I'm right about my opinions on a subject--including Joe Jackson, I will state it; regardless if it's not the popular stance among others on here.
 
enlightenu said:
This new age, so-called enlightened stuff about 'no spanking' and 'spanking is child abuse' is a bunch of crap. That's one of the big reasons we have so many out of control kids out here. There is a big difference between spanking as a means of discipline and out right abuse. Now do I think Joe went too far with the physical discipline? Yes I do; but I understand why he did it. And his sons, MICHAEL INCLUDED, understood why Joe did what he did even though they felt he was harsh with them.

Joe had 9 children, 6 of them were boys. They lived in a neighborhood where there were two roads for a black kid to go on. One of the roads lead to jail or an early death. Joe could not afford to be a wimpy father. He had to keep them in line and on track and the best way he (as well as many fathers back then) knew how was to be tough, strict disciplinarian. And Joe was right, the boys were not in any gangs, they weren't shooting up dope, they didn't get in trouble with law. They knew Joe and Katherine were not going to stand for any bull. And it made them hard-working, determined, resilient and tough. Michael, after he became a father himself, began to understand Joe more and he and Joe did grow closer these past few years and Michael even though over the years expressed sadness and anger over Joe's harshness, Michael was the first to always credit Joe in instilling that work ethic in him that carried him through his career. Compare that to what happened to kids who didn't have a father in the house and were practically raising themselves. Or kids who had permissive parents who didn't discipline there kids at all; but were seeking popularity and friendship with their kids instead.
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My thoughts exactly!!!!! If beatings with extention cords and switches and shoes and belts and ping pong paddles and bottle openers is abuse then I have been abused my life as well as a bunchof people I know. I agree Joe went overboard but the lack of disciplining of todays kid's directly corelate to many problems today.

We have to know our childre. What is abuse for one is not abuse for another. We have to take the time to know our children personally and not treat them as cookie cutter.
 
ginvid said:
My thoughts exactly!!!!! If beatings with extention cords and switches and shoes and belts and ping pong paddles and bottle openers is abuse then I have been abused my life as well as a bunchof people I know. I agree Joe went overboard but the lack of disciplining of todays kid's directly corelate to many problems today.

We have to know our childre. What is abuse for one is not abuse for another. We have to take the time to know our children personally and not treat them as cookie cutter.
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I was just about to post the same thing.

I went through the same thing as a child (excluding the baby oil.) Like people have already said Joe did go to far but Michael and his brothers were "in line".
 
suzynyc said:
I understand being strict and protective with your children to save them from getting into trouble. I can even understand "spanking" once in a while (though I personally don't believe in hitting a child). I even get that those were different times in the 50's & 60's when parents hitting their kids wasn't a big deal like it is these days. But I cannot ignore Michael's own words describing how his father abused him. Sure, the media twists things but we have all heard Michael with our own ears describe how his father treated him. He's all but saying Michael was lying. In my opinion, Joe's methods of "discipline" were abusive - even for those days. Joe should have regrets about what he did because it's obvious how much it affected Michael (not sure about the others).

Edit: There was also emotional abuse as well as physical, according to Michael's own words.
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Exactly.

Harming a child is wrong, it's a child FFS , they can't defend themselves against something that is much stronger.

It's sad to see how people defend abuse.
 
Joe Jackson really needs to turn the page on this particular subject, in my opinion.

I mean, didn't he recently say that it was Ms. Katherine who gave the REAL "spankings," and that her's were worse then his spankings?

Anyway, folks have basically taken a stance on this subject and no matter what Joe Jackson says, that is not going to change anything at this point in the game. If anything, all it does is put this subject in the forefront AGAIN and remind some of us about the "oil rub downs" before the so-called spankings.

If he insist on bring this subject up, maybe he should just flip-the-script and admit that his methods were not wise and that he basically had a bunch of good kids who didn't need that type of corporal punishment.

Also, in my opinion, the "spankings" had nothing to do with gang membership (LOL), those BEATINGS were all about missing dance steps and not performing up to Joe Jackson's standard. Just MY opinion.
 
ginvid said:
My thoughts exactly!!!!! If beatings with extention cords and switches and shoes and belts and ping pong paddles and bottle openers is abuse then I have been abused my life as well as a bunchof people I know. I agree Joe went overboard but the lack of disciplining of todays kid's directly corelate to many problems today.

We have to know our childre. What is abuse for one is not abuse for another. We have to take the time to know our children personally and not treat them as cookie cutter.
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Well, from my perspective you were and the others were abused. Nothing warrants a child to be physically harmed like that. Nothing. I'm glad you can acknowledge that Joe went overboard though, because he did and nobody can defend what he did. He was a monster to them.

As far as lack of discipline being the what correlates to problems today, I completely disagree. Problems today come from social aspects that have not been corrected..They come from forcing children to do things they can't do or exposing children to an environment of violence and hate. Along with many more aspects, the problems of today don't come from parents not physically harming their children.
 
Well we can agree to disagree. I 100% think that lack of discipline is a huge problem and spiderveins out to many problems we are currently seeing. Also I was not abused. But people will see things differently. And that is ok. If I have children ever, I dare someone to tell me that I cannot spank my children and that I abuse them if I spank them. I think it is perfectly fine, not to Joe's degree. Although, to be honest, i will be less likely to spank my children for all of things I got spanked for. Discipline involves talking as well and teaching not just outright spankings only.

And spankings are not physically harming a child. By any means. It is practical and sometimes necessary. But you can feel as you do as well as any body else. NO ONE will be able to change my opinion on this matter. It is thoroughly fixed and borne out by experience.
 
ginvid said:
Well we can agree to disagree. I 100% think that lack of discipline is a huge problem and spiderveins out to many problems we are currently seeing. Also I was not abused. But people will see things differently. And that is ok. If I have children ever, I dare someone to tell me that I cannot spank my children and that I abuse them if I spank them. I think it is perfectly fine, not to Joe's degree. Although, to be honest, i will be less likely to spank my children for all of things I got spanked for. Discipline involves talking as well and teaching not just outright spankings only.

And spankings are not physically harming a child. By any means. It is practical and sometimes necessary. But you can feel as you do as well as any body else. NO ONE will be able to change my opinion on this matter. It is thoroughly fixed and borne out by experience.
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Well your right, it's just one of those things in life that everyone has a different perspective on based on what their experiences and their personality...

I don't really see spanking as "abuse" btw..Although I disagree with it, what I was referring to what you said "If beatings with extention cords and switches and shoes and belts and ping pong paddles and bottle openers is abuse then I have been abused my life as well as a bunchof people I know" ...When you use things like these to harm a child..isn't there a certain threshold that has to be set here? Do parents have to be using a Medieval Sword before it's actually considered abuse?
 
I don't understand how anybody would support this guy!!!!!.......


Spanking is one thing.................Beating is another!!!!!!!


My parents never once beat me and I've never joined any gangs or done drugs!!!!!



To Joe Jackson, his children are just his slaves...................

............he never once cared about their welfare or their success..........

............he only cared about how much money they would generate for him!!!!!
 
Spanking Michael kept Joe Jackson ranking in money.....Enough said dude can kill all that noise and people can kill that he's old school dude wasn't and will never be ______t how he treated his kids was dead wrong what the media puts out is for from the truth I will not even go there. Its really sad how TMZ the ones who work for the inside media loves to talk about MJ life let him rest sadly i feel he not. He needs to let the real ones help with his son getting Justice cause he barly cares i'm heated i have to logoff
 
Michael's own words:

from the Schmuley tapes:
Michael Jackson: He was rough. The way he would beat you, you know, was hard, you know. Sometime he take, um, he would make you strip nude first. He would oil you down. It would be a whole ritual. He would oil you down so when the flip of the ironing cord hit you, you know. And it would just like be dying and you had whips all over your face, your back, everywhere. And I always hear my mother, "No, Joe! You're gonna kill 'em. You're gonna kill 'em, no!" I would just give up, like there was nothing I could do, you know? And I, and I hated him for it, hated him.
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And from Glenda tapes:
M- When you’re brought up. We used to play at the club circuits and stuff like that, you know, with all the black groups and it’s like, you’re brought up and then we finally went with Motown and stuff. You’re brought up. You’re taught to be a certain way because you’re in the public eye. The close knit, the close knit family, the tight knit family, whatever, and “Papa Joe this” and “Papa Joe was wonderful” and “Papa Joe helped do this and that”. When things start falling apart, then you gotta cover for it, you know, because you’re out there and you gotta cover for it. I would come home. We would come home from sessions and if we didn’t do something right, we’d get beat with a sock full of wet sand because it didn’t leave bruises. We’d go to the studios the next day and, and, you know, people in the business, people in the Motown family, they knew what was going on. I mean if you did something wrong and Joseph was there, he’d slap the mess out of us. They knew what was going on but it was like, you have to portray this certain image. You have to smile and everything. And everything like “y’all so tight”. “The Jackson family came from poverty, you know, from being nobody” and (I)
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and

Michael: He like (Joe’s voice again), “If it weren’t for me, you wouldn’t be where you are today.” And stuff.
Glenda: Is that what he says?? Did he say that today?
Michael: Hell yeah, he says that to me.
Glenda: (laugh) Oh my god!
Michael: He’d always tell us that. When we were little. “Well, you know, if it wasn’t for me, you wouldn’t be where you are. If it wasn’t for me, you wouldn’t be Michael Jackson superstar” and stuff, you know. And I told him before, ’cause we got into a big fight, I says, “That’s halfway true.” I said, “But you know what I said, I grew up in this business and I learned a lot. You had a lot to do with it in the beginning and I thank you for that, but I can’t pay you back for the rest of my life.” I said, “I know the business.” You know, I told him before, I said, ” I know the business better than you do.” And I said, “You can’t keep throwing that in my face.” I said, “Because it took you to get me started.” I said, “But then after that, I was my own business man.” ‘Cause he was screwin’ up deals right and left.
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Nothing Joe will ever say about this will justify what he did to Michael.
 
Sure Michael understood why Joe was so hard on him when he became a father. But abuse is simply unacceptable. Michael was always said to be strict with his kids but he showed how parenting could be done. You can be strict with your kids and not have them fear you. Discipline isn't standing there with a belt in your hand.
 
MY LORD! Help!!! In which century we are living?


twinklee said:
what a freaking sadis, what he did had nothing to do with spanking, and no hitting ur kid as young as 5/6/7/8/9/10 has as little to do with keeping ur kid out of gangs as abusing ur kid when he is /11/12/13/14 and already a star living in sunny california, in hollywood. This senile old **** should at least own up now, to what he did and what damage his actioons caused. Ppl as effing old as him arent so goddamn obnoxios for f***s sake!
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thank you!!!!

Probably Michael would still alive when wouldn't have such kind of father!!!!! Michael's soul was hurt so deeply that he never could be satisfied with himself.
 
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Joe Jackson Has 'No Regrets' About Hitting MJ

He claims Michael's childhood beatings were for his own good...

16:43, Monday, 6 September 2010

Michael Jackson's father Joe has revealed that he has 'no regrets' about beating ***** as a child because it kept the singer out of jail and away from gang violence.

Joe Jackson made the extraordinary claim in an interview with Jacksonsecretvault.com and suggested that the King of Pop's tough upbringing was for his own good.

The late singer had previously spoken out about his strict upbringing, claiming that Joe often hit him when he was growing up.

*****'s dad claimed: "I had to be like that because when raising him, in those days, so many gangs (were) out there getting into trouble, going to jail."

"Most of them are dead now. He didn't have to worry about that. "No (I don't have any regrets)."

He added: They tried to make a big issue when I spanked Michael or some of the kids, you know? Just like they didn't spank their kids when they did wrong. The media twists everything."

The interview is expected to be screened in a movie about MJ, which has been co-produced by his mother Katherine Jackson.

http://www.mtv.co.uk/artists/michael-jackson/news/236256-michael-jackson-joe-jackson

So is this really true, is expected to be screened in a movie, co-produced by Katherine? I hope it isn't, hope hope hope.
 
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Joe never did anything to Michael out of love. He didn't "spank" Michael because he wanted the best for him, so this gang argument is nothing but an excuse to put sand in the eyes of the public. It's nothing but a made up and false excuse to portray the "though love and disciplinarian" father who spanked his kids in order to put them "in line". My parents spanked me because they wanted the best for me. I deserved it! With Joe it's a different story. This man beat the life out of his children to the point Katherine would scream "You'll kill them.". Joe, a former boxer, would brutalize his children with everything he had. He'd hit them with ALL his strength and he enjoyed being violent with his children.

Joe never beat Michael because he wanted him to behave, avoid gangs and all that stuff. Joe never does anything that doesn't help Joe. He beat the life out of his children for no reason other than being blind by greed and driven by jealousy.

This man would strip his children (as a form of humiliation), oil them (so that they could feel the pain better) and beat them with anything he had in hand as hard as humanly possible. Then, he would put salt in their wounds so that they would feel even more pain. He would, at the same time, scream the most mean spirited insults one can imagine. Claiming he did this in order to keep them "in line" is ridiculous. Joe would never do anything that benefited people other than himself and doing such thing for his kids' good would imply he was concerned about them. Well, he wasn't. Joe did this because he saw his children as nothing but slaves whose only goal in life should be making him money. Joe did this because, in is mind, his children were slaves who should think about making him money 24/7. So, he tortured them simply because, after ten hours of rehearsals, his children- who worked for him and were the sole breadwinners of the family- dared to miss a dance step or a note. He beat the life out of his children simply because they dared to complain they wanted to play instead of being exploited by their father 24/7. He beat the life out of them simply because they dared to complain their feet was aching after ten straight hours of rehearsals.

And then you have the fact that Joe treated his children like dogs. You also have the fact that he emotionally and verbally tortured them. You also have the fact that he harassed Michael on a daily basis.

Joe ain't no "old school" father. He is a damn abuser and monster who should be in jail.
 
Joe ain't no "old school" father. He is a damn abuser and monster who should be in jail.
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And he continues to abuse him by fighting for the money from the Estate which Michael didn't want him to have.
 
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