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Jermaine talks about Michael, allegations, humanitarianism, J5, & Joe's beatings - New interview

Re: Jermaine talks about Michael, allegations, humanitarianism, J5, & Joe's beatings - New interview

Victory22 said:
But whatever got you there it is no excuse for terrorizing, traumatizing and brutalizing your own flesh and blood. MJ was a vulnerable little child who did not ask to come here and who was only looking for love from the father who is responsible for creating him.
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I agree. I just wish Joe wasn't as stubborn in acknowledging that in trying for a better life, his innocent loved ones got hurt in the process. His definition/vision of success came at a price that everyone but Joe can see. I honestly believe he did things the best way he knew how to.
 
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Someone said MJ got it worst but I remember MJ on LWMJ doc saying Marlon had the toughest time with Joseph because he couldn't catch on as quickly as the others not that it was any better though.
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I think on the LWMJ doc Michael was only talking about the beatings for missed dance steps, because in the recording tapes for the Moonwalk book, he said:

Michael: He’d sit there everyday - it’s like after school, we’d come from school and we rehearse, and he’d sit in a chair like this, usually with a... a belt in his hand, or a switch.
Reporter: Jeez...
Michael: He would. And he’d be sitting there, and we’d do our performance, and if you messed up you’d get hit. The person who got it all the time was Marlon.
Reporter: Really?
Michael: See I got it outside from showbusiness. I was beat more than any of the children.
Reporter: You mean for pranks and stuff?
Michael: No, just... probably for just... being... I used to throw back at him and get back at him when he’d get me. I was beat bad... I mean to the point I would say abused. Oh, please don’t write that.
 
Re: Jermaine talks about Michael, allegations, humanitarianism, J5, & Joe's beatings - New interview

MJJ7777 said:
Well Im assuming thats what Joe intended in the first place to keep them off the streets. People don't often join gangs for fun, glamour and because they are just born evil bullies and have nothing better to do with their lives, its usually done out of necessity. When things get desperate, there's no knowing what a good natured person will eventually have to do to live and eat.

Either way, yes Joe was pretty Hard but at the same time I can understand some things, I'm not going to sit here and lie to myself because everyone else is pretty much one sided on this whole discussion.

Someone said MJ got it worst but I remember MJ on LWMJ doc saying Marlon had the toughest time with Joseph because he couldn't catch on as quickly as the others not that it was any better though.
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I think it was in Moonwalk that Michael said that he did not get beatings for the rehearsals but for other things. It seems he was very organized and disciplined. His beatings must have been due to other things and not because he made mistakes. I think one of the brothers mentioned that Michael liked to answer back or something like that. Also, one of the people who worked with the J5 said Michael would come and tell him to ask the brothers to come back to practice when they were playing, so it seems Michael's beatings were for non musical things and the brothers were more for mistakes during rehearsals. Maybe Michael had his own ideas about doing things, I do not know.
 
Re: Jermaine talks about Michael, allegations, humanitarianism, J5, & Joe's beatings - New interview

I completely agree with Victory. Anything other than what she is saying is rosy, beautiful to be said political correctness.

Joe didn't give a dman about his sons: he wanted to get rich, glorious and famous off of them and that it. Very simple.

To him, the kids were nothing but objects which he had on the palm of his hand and from which he took immense pleasure hurting, abusing and torturing.

There are good people and mean people: Joe was a brute, evil, montruously mean person.

I'm sorry, MJ7777. In my mind there is no place for rosy delusions.
 
Re: Jermaine talks about Michael, allegations, humanitarianism, J5, & Joe's beatings - New interview

What i found so impressive was mj's obvious struggle down the years to try and understand and forgive his father rather than just let go and write him off. It was sad when he was relating incidents in hislife which showed him that he was indeed loved by his father and came up with joe leaving some doughnuts for him on the breakfast table and being lifted up onto a fairground ride - you just realise how starved of affection mj was, and perhaps explains his putting his other parent on a pedastal.
 
Re: Jermaine talks about Michael, allegations, humanitarianism, J5, & Joe's beatings - New interview

Bonnie Blue said:
What i found so impressive was mj's obvious struggle down the years to try and understand and forgive his father rather than just let go and write him off. It was sad when he was relating incidents in hislife which showed him that he was indeed loved by his father and came up with joe leaving some doughnuts for him on the breakfast table and being lifted up onto a fairground ride - you just realise how starved of affection mj was, and perhaps explains his putting his other parent on a pedastal.
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I cried when I first came across what Michael wrote about those times. Like Michael I come from a family uncomfortable with showing affection but when I see how much they struggle to help me succeed, I have no doubt about their love.

euadoropao - Delusional is when you shout "end of story" before even reading into it. What you say goes, and to echo it: "no if ands or buts about it". Delusional is when you decide that complex issues are just Black and White. Delusional is when one knows diddly squat about something but acts quite the opposite.
Also, I don't find anything rosy in my assumptions. You might be right or I could be right and despite that this will never be a rosy topic, regardless of which way one puts it.

Heck, If I was able to weather the taunting I received from classmates back in 2005 most of whom believed MJ was a Freak and nothing more, I can weather this discussion too. Maybe its just me and I like digging deeper than the surface presented to me otherwise I wouldn't have been an MJ fan for as long as I have. If thats what you call delusional in your dictionary, then so be it.
 
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Re: Jermaine talks about Michael, allegations, humanitarianism, J5, & Joe's beatings - New interview

MJJ7777 said:
euadoropao - Delusional is when you shout "end of story" before even reading into it. What you say goes, and to echo it: "no if ands or buts about it". Delusional is when you decide that complex issues are just Black and White. Delusional is when one knows diddly squat about something but acts quite the opposite.
Also, I don't find anything rosy in my assumptions. You might be right or I could be right and despite that this will never be a rosy topic, regardless of which way one puts it.

Heck, If I was able to weather the taunting I received from classmates back in 2005 most of whom believed MJ was a Freak and nothing more, I can weather this discussion too. Maybe its just me and I like digging deeper than the surface presented to me otherwise I wouldn't have been an MJ fan for as long as I have. If thats what you call delusional in your dictionary, then so be it.
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I can understand where you are coming from. A couple years ago, I thought too underneath all the crap, Joe did cared for Michael in his own strange way. I don't excuse or forgive his abuse, but I thought he had some redeeming qualities. Unlike most, I don't write people off as pure evil and I actually hate when people use the term evil and monster so freely, since I hate stripping people of their humanity, no matter how bad they act.

With that said, my views on Joe has changed since Michael's death. It seems to me that he never particular cared for Michael as a person, but as a produce. He seemed sad that the 'King of Pop' has died, not that his son was killed. During Murray's sentencing he couldn't be bothered to write a victims' impact statement, but more than able to file suit and passed conspiracy theories. Don't even get me started on the BET after Michael's death or his business ventures.

Did Joe love Michael, I know he does, but I don't know if that love was that of a son or as an entertainer.
 
Re: Jermaine talks about Michael, allegations, humanitarianism, J5, & Joe's beatings - New interview

its interesting that the fans always, really always, find something negative about positive stories.
they are like the media. exactly the same!
i hate that! since michaels death its nearly unbearable to read all this shit on this forum.
 
Re: Jermaine talks about Michael, allegations, humanitarianism, J5, & Joe's beatings - New interview

mjchris said:
its interesting that the fans always, really always, find something negative about positive stories.
they are like the media. exactly the same!
i hate that! since michaels death its nearly unbearable to read all this shit on this forum.
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It's also interesting that people want to overlook things as long as the majority of the story is so call "positive stories". What Joe did to MJ and the rest of the sibling is so horribly wrong. Jermaine might think it's not a big deal or he might just want to paint his father good. However, MJ himself said million times that this hurt him so much. So why justify Joes' behavior?

And unfortunately, Jermaine is such a hypocrite to me just like many other people. I don't care whether he is Michael's brother just like I don't care whether Joe is MJ's father. I would cut them some slack if they can truly admitted they treated MJ wrong.
 
Re: Jermaine talks about Michael, allegations, humanitarianism, J5, & Joe's beatings - New interview

Bonnie Blue said:
What i found so impressive was mj's obvious struggle down the years to try and understand and forgive his father rather than just let go and write him off. It was sad when he was relating incidents in hislife which showed him that he was indeed loved by his father and came up with joe leaving some doughnuts for him on the breakfast table and being lifted up onto a fairground ride - you just realise how starved of affection mj was, and perhaps explains his putting his other parent on a pedastal.
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Bonnie I loved that part too, and that is what made me think that in some little way Joe loved Michael. However, he still abused him and does not feel he did. I have come to the conclusion that Joe really thinks he did not abuse Michael, that he was disciplining him in a way he saw some people did during his youth, and that to these people that method was acceptable. I really think that is how Joe sees it, even though we all recognized that Joe physically and emotionally abused his son.
 
Re: Jermaine talks about Michael, allegations, humanitarianism, J5, & Joe's beatings - New interview

I personally dont believe in people being born "evil", and except for mental illnesses, I think there's always an explanation behind any behavior. People become what they are because of the way they are treated, most of all as kids. It shapes the way you see the world, yourself and your relationships with others. And we all react differently to the same treatment, depending on our character, our nature. Thats why I wished more people would stop and really think hard before having kids. It's a tremendous responsibility first and foremost.

I believe Joe acted this way with his kids because that's how he was treated as a child, and like many people, never took a step back to look at the way he was brought up. He only re-applied the same methods. It might very well be the same for KJ.

But all this is no excuse for what he did. They both are still responsible for 7 totally damaged human beings.

Bonnie Blue said:
you just realize how starved of affection mj was, and perhaps explains his putting his other parent on a pedestal
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That's my belief too.
 
Re: Jermaine talks about Michael, allegations, humanitarianism, J5, & Joe's beatings - New interview

I liked that Jermaine brought up the fact that Michael was a great humanitarian, and he even gave some examples. I remember reading some time ago that Michael would call up his people and tell them to pay for something after he heard that there was a need. The people would never know that it was Michael who was helping. I am glad that his business people kept an account of all his charity activities so that we have them as examples of his good spirit.

Sometimes I wonder if all the groups that Michael gave charity too, including the burn clinic sent him a card saying "We are thinking of you during your time of need," when he was going through the allegations. He gave to so many, but did they ever return the favor and send him a kind word, which would have meant so much.
 
Re: Jermaine talks about Michael, allegations, humanitarianism, J5, & Joe's beatings - New interview

missred07 said:
It's also interesting that people want to overlook things as long as the majority of the story is so call "positive stories". What Joe did to MJ and the rest of the sibling is so horribly wrong. Jermaine might think it's not a big deal or he might just want to paint his father good. However, MJ himself said million times that this hurt him so much. So why justify Joes' behavior?

And unfortunately, Jermaine is such a hypocrite to me just like many other people. I don't care whether he is Michael's brother just like I don't care whether Joe is MJ's father. I would cut them some slack if they can truly admitted they treated MJ wrong.
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stop, stop. hey. slow
i never said its good what joe did to his children. ok? and i talk about jermaine. not joe. ok?
i never mentioned joe in my post. ok?
i hate what he did.
its an jermaine interview we talking about. not joe. ok?
 
etoile 37;3593132 said:
I think on the LWMJ doc Michael was only talking about the beatings for missed dance steps, because in the recording tapes for the Moonwalk book, he said:

Michael: He’d sit there everyday - it’s like after school, we’d come from school and we rehearse, and he’d sit in a chair like this, usually with a... a belt in his hand, or a switch.
Reporter: Jeez...
Michael: He would. And he’d be sitting there, and we’d do our performance, and if you messed up you’d get hit. The person who got it all the time was Marlon.
Reporter: Really?
Michael: See I got it outside from showbusiness. I was beat more than any of the children.
Reporter: You mean for pranks and stuff?
Michael: No, just... probably for just... being... I used to throw back at him and get back at him when he’d get me. I was beat bad... I mean to the point I would say abused. Oh, please don’t write that.
Click to expand...


Wait wait wait....there's tapes for Moonwalk?!
 
Re: Jermaine talks about Michael, allegations, humanitarianism, J5, & Joe's beatings - New interview

I kinda felt joe got a lil more closer with mjs bros as they tend to like downplay michaels allegations of child abuse from joe. I dont know..thats the impression i got over the years
 
Re: Jermaine talks about Michael, allegations, humanitarianism, J5, & Joe's beatings - New interview

^ don't know how I missed that! Ta muchly!!
 
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