Janet Jackson fan to part with collectibles over fur line

[Ben]

No, it is not. However, as far as I know, there's no fascist mandate that states you have to act upon the message of every single song you happen to dig. You're free to pursue it if you wish, and I'm free to do as I like. Isn't freedom great? 8D

As for the rest of your message, I'm not attempting to justify my purchases due to the high likelihood that a lot of the preachy hippies who are anti-fur probably have a ton of stuff made by basically slave workers lying around their house. I need not justify a single thing because I'm not the one who's preaching. However, they would be hypocritical in harassing people who choose to purchase fur or eat meat while basically endorsing human trafficking/enslavement via their own purchases. Of course, not everyone fits this criteria, but you'd be surprised at how many of them do.

As for checking where you're sending your money into and what you are supporting via your purchases, I couldn't agree more with you. It is important to know where your money is going, and to ensure the people receiving it function under principles you are in accordance with. That is what the informed consumer does. I would strongly advocate thorough research on part of the consumer--a lot of them are woefully ignorant regarding where their money goes and what it supports.

It all depends on what the songs, and the man, mean to you. It depends on why they were written and sang in the first place, especially in this case, with this particular singer. It also depends on how much you share of the philosophy they express of course.


The idea that people who are anti fur or fighting for animal rights can only be hairy hippies is quite obsolete and has been for a long time. Very often, people fighting for animal rights are also involved in campaign for human rights, i.e workers in poor countries.

Once again, the fact that there are humans exploited somewhere doesnt excuse the fact that fur farms is basically torture for fashion. And again, it has nothing to do with pets, it has nothing to do with culture, it has to do with what we know about animal suffering, it has to do with selfishness and cruelty. It's not an opinion, it's just a fact.

As I believe people who eat foie gras should stop saying they know how it's done, and should go see for real; as I believe people who buy certain sneakers should go and see how they're made, and by whom; as I believe people who eat any kind of industrial food, especially meat, should go and see for real where it comes from; I believe people who like fur should go and see how it's made, for real, from the start. I believe knowing something and seeing it for real is different.
So that everyone supporting those things could come and say : I know people/animals are suffering because of this, but this food/pair of shoes/coat is too cool so I dont care.

Because in the end, that's what it comes down to.

 

[Severus Snape]

It all depends on what the songs, and the man, mean to you. It depends on why they were written and sang in the first place, especially in this case, with this particular singer. It also depends on how much you share of the philosophy they express of course.

Well, technically, MITM wasn't even written by Michael, so I reckon it doesn't really mean much to me to begin with. I prefer his other material. As for Michael, he means a lot to me as an entertainer and a human being, but that doesn't mean I have to be a Stan and copy everything he does just because he's Michael Jackson. He was a philanthropist, that is who he was: but that is not who I am. Don't you dare for a second dangle feelings for Michael as an excuse for your view. The two are separate concepts--that's like saying everyone who likes Eminem should go get addicted to vicodin or something.

The idea that people who are anti fur or fighting for animal rights can only be hairy hippies is quite obsolete and has been for a long time. Very often, people fighting for animal rights are also involved in campaign for human rights, i.e workers in poor countries.

I know the smelly hippie image is theoretically outdated (although most of the virulently anti-fur people I've encountered have drab style and are in serious need of a bath, among other things...), however, I find the image amusing so I'm using it. =P

And yes, some of those aforementioned hippies are more conscientious than most, however--the majority of the strictly anti-fur people are still fat consumerists whose hypocrisy truly knows no bounds.

Once again, the fact that there are humans exploited somewhere doesnt excuse the fact that fur farms is basically torture for fashion.

Once again, I'm not attempting to excuse anything because I'm not the one who is preaching. 8D

I believe people who like fur should go and see how it's made, for real, from the start. I believe knowing something and seeing it for real is different. So that everyone supporting those things could come and say : I know people/animals are suffering because of this, but this food/pair of shoes/coat is too cool so I dont care.

Because in the end, that's what it comes down to.

Basically, yes.

I know people/animals are suffering because of this, but this food/pair of shoes/coat is too cool so I dont care.

Like this?! 8D

 

[KOPV]

This debate will be on going, it is tieing in peoples beliefes which people are not going to back down from.. If we lived in a day and age where we had to fend for our own food instead of going to the store, everyone would have a diffrent view..

 

[Ben]

Once again, I'm not attempting to excuse anything because I'm not the one who is preaching.

If you were under the impression I was trying to change your mind, you were deeply mistaken. I'm not preaching to anyone. You and I obviously live on very different planets, and I'm just stating facts and my own opinion.


Each mind grows at its own pace.



@KOPV, generally speaking maybe, but not when it comes to this precise topic. Fur has nothing to do with survival

 

[KOPV]

You are right, fur has nothing to do with servival NOW!! it does not have to do with servival now.. But there was a time and period where fur was a huge part of servival.. Infact there are some remote areas that people still wear fur for servival..

 

[Ben]

You are right, fur has nothing to do with servival NOW!! it does not have to do with servival now.. But there was a time and period where fur was a huge part of servival.. Infact there are some remote areas that people still wear fur for servival..

Absolutely. But I think humanity is supposed to evolve, and improve. Animal suffering was not even considered before, we now know different, we have learned.
Those people you accurately talk about dont wear fur for fashion, so to me, it's different, you know. Just like I would certainly eat meat if I was stranded on a deserted island with only cows for food. lol They dont just use the fur, they also eat the animal. So yes, to them, it is survival, I agree. It's just not the reason why Janet is doing this.

 

[chanel05]

I don't believe I said you hated animals. Nevertheless, in your posts here, you don't come across as someone with compassion towards animals either.

No you didnt say that you belived I hate animals, i just believed that you were implying that I did. Its not that I dont have compassion for them, I just feel that if she wants to make fur than she should. I could really care less either way though because im not fond of four or leather (well........ i ADORE a nice pair of leather boots)

:bugeyedThe way you say this is sort of cold, but when it comes down to it, I think you make a lot of sense.:yes:

I don't wear fur but I don't consider people who do evil either. I love animals, I don't like to see any living thing in pain however the same fierce advocates of animal rights need to remember that their fellow humans are also being exploited for the same purpose, I'd like to see more outrage over disadvantaged workers being exploited just so that the rest of the world could enjoy some of life's luxuries at crazy cheap prices. That I agree with Severus Snape 100 % . Lets be real people.

couldnt have said it better myself

 

[KOPV]

^ I get your point, now my point where it really leads to me is that our environment dictates our views on this subject so we will have to respect everyones view.. Of course someone that was raised on a farm is going to have a different view than someone from the city when it comes to animals.. and so on!! I do agree with evolving but people will have different beliefes on where we should evolve and in what directions to go depending on where they came from.. We have to understand that.. I've said before that I eat a lot of meat 1) Because its the strongest source of pure protien 2) I enjoy it (thought I get tired of eating so much of it)I respect the wishes of those who decide not to eat it, I respect the conviction of it all.. That is just not me! Same goes for fur use, I personally don't wear it, but others will.. They were raised differently than me and don't feel the same discomfort as I do

 

[Ben]

^ I get your point, now my point where it really leads to me is that our environment dictates our views on this subject so we will have to respect everyones view.. Of course someone that was raised on a farm is going to have a different view than someone from the city when it comes to animals.. and so on!! I do agree with evolving but people will have different beliefes on where we should evolve and in what directions to go depending on where they came from.. We have to understand that.. I've said before that I eat a lot of meat 1) Because its the strongest source of pure protien 2) I enjoy it (thought I get tired of eating so much of it)I respect the wishes of those who decide not to eat it, I respect the conviction of it all.. That is just not me! Same goes for fur use, I personally don't wear it, but others will.. They were raised differently than me and don't feel the same discomfort as I do

It's not that I dont agree with what you're saying. But, to me, the fact that animals feel pain is not a matter of culture, it's not something that can be discussed. It's a simple fact, that applies wherever you were raised. You know? The fact that some cultures dont pay attention to it is one thing, but it doesnt mean its different for the animals they deal with.
Now, re-Janet, I believe she has more or less the same culture as we do, so the argument cant apply to her. :/

Re-bold part, I'm not part of those vegetarians who bully meat eaters in a restaurant.

 

[KOPV]

^ I see your point!! and I fully understand that.. All of our sensitivity level will be different than others.. Some vegitarians woud not take a second thought to taking a fly swatter out and splat one if it entered the house.. and/or has bug spray under there kitchen sinc.. insencts have feelings aswell!!Basically put, I respect your level of awareness to the issue.. The conviction it comes with.. I personally believe that we are built to eat meat, our digestis system is built for it for a reason.. Animals in the wild hunt for it because they are built to eat meat.. The animals that are NOT built for it do not hunt for it, nor do they crave it..We are built to be meat eaters but it's a persons conviction wather to supress that desire for personal cause.. It has SOME simularities on the conviction of those who decide not to have sex in there life.. (of course I understand its not the same no one is physically being hurt) Im more so talking about the conviction that we are built to crave and desire sex, but some chose not to.. I hope no one twists what I said into something I didnt mean it as

 

[Ben]

Some vegitarians woud not take a second thought to taking a fly swatter out and splat one if it entered the house.. and/or has bug spray under there kitchen sinc.. insencts have feelings aswell!!Basically put, I respect your level of awareness to the issue.. The conviction it comes with.. I personally believe that we are built to eat meat, our digestis system is built for it for a reason.. Animals in the wild hunt for it because they are built to eat meat.. The animals that are NOT built for it do not hunt for it, nor do they crave it..We are built to be meat eaters but it's a persons conviction wather to supress that desire for personal cause.. It has SOME simularities on the conviction of those who decide not to have sex in there life.. (of course I understand its not the same no one is physically being hurt) Im more so talking about the conviction that we are built to crave and desire sex, but some chose not to.. I hope no one twists what I said into something I didnt mean it as

There are people who chose to be vegetarians for weird reasons, like it's some kind of a diet, to provoke, to get some attention they need. But there's no philosophy behind it. To me, it makes no sense, and they dont last anyway.

I dont think what hurts me the most is the fact that people eat meat. It's more the mistreatment and plain torture that systematically go with it. Those are not necessary, those I just cant do with. Seeing a child fall makes me cringe, and an animal being hurt has the same effect.

That comparison with sex was very... interesting...

 

[KOPV]

Using fur or eating meat is one thing and animal cruelty is another.. I don't think an animal should feel physical pain when it is not neccessary.. Not even cavemen would hurt the animal if they had ways on killing the animal for food with a simple injection or some other sort of painless way of doing the process.. There are videos out there of horrible things people do when they kill the animals, they are so desensitised that they litterally torcher them before killing them.. cutting up cows WHILE they are alive.. Playing with pigs and crushing there testicles before killing them.. THAT SH** is pointless harm and SICK..As far as the use of fur and meat though, everyone will feel differently, for reasons that I stated in previous posts.. If I were to ever pro activally fight against something related to animals it would be animal cruelty.. And that would not contradict my feelings of how we were built to eat meat..

 

[Ben]

I agree, meat and animal cruelty are 2 different issues, and I totally agree with what you said.
To me, fur goes with the latter, because there's no need for us to wear fur; so we end an animal's life for...fun basically. I cant agree with that.

 

[KOPV]

^ So Ben! I saw you comment on some vegitarians there reasons for it, but what is your personal reason of being vegitarian?

 

[Ben]

LOL Hard to sum up in just a few words. A lot I think I've already said here. I've always felt uncomfortable eating meat, for as long as I can remember, but it was, like you said, part of my culture. Becoming a vegetarian was a surprising relief actually, you know, like you put the last piece of the puzzle in place. Some kind of revelation. It's who I am. I cant stand fear and pain inflicted on others, whether they're animals, humans, plants. It's like I feel it inside if you will. I dont know how to explain it better.

 

[KOPV]

^ That's pretty beautiful!! My personal beliefe is you were given that sensitivity towards animals,plants,humans for a reason.. And thank you for having an open ear to your calling! wherever it will take you from here..

There are so many people given gifts, or a mind set, or talent and they supress it and not put it to use.. You are not one of them.

 

[Ben]

There are so many people given gifts, or a mind set, or talent and they supress it and not put it to use..

This is very true. A lot of people are focused on material toys and superficial details. While wondering what is their path in life.