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Is Sony hurting MJ's rep as an artist?

  • Thread starter Dangerous Incorporated
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wendy2004 said:
KOPV, do you have a copy of Essentials with you? If anyone has a copy, can they flip it over and see who Executive Produced it or if there's any credits on that CD? :unsure: Thanks.
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There's only a short text by Nelson George (who is he anyway?) about popstars in general and even shorter text about Michael.

Mastered by Joseph M. Palmaccio at Sony Music Studios, NY.
Project Director: Joy Gilbert Monfried & Roger Menz
Art Direction & Design: David Coleman
Photography: Cover: A list of names.
Packaking Manager: Susan Hargrove

And that's it. So it's pretty obvious Sony is just releasing Michael's songs to make $$$ and Michael has nothing do with the albums.
 
what they have done is put us fans between a rock and a hard place. if us fans refuse to buy the cd's then we hear reports along the lines of mj hasnt got the spark anymore even his fans are not buying his material. and when we do buy the stuff you still get the BS put in the papers. so what can we do. all these petitions to release dvd's are getting no where.
 
Datsymay said:
If you have got the songs already, then the album is not for you. There are many young people growing up that have never had the album. I have 2 J5 compilation. I bought them both even thought they are very similar because each of them have different songs that I like very much. It gives people who want to buy the album a choice. MJ fans who have the album needn't go out and buy it again. Let the new comers buy the albium.
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I didn't buy it, it was gift :flowers:

And I understand what you're saying, but how many GH collections have been released this century only? I'm just saying...there's plenty of them...


I agree, risky.
 
I hope, Michael will never colaborate with Sony again, they stolen his mone and destroyed his career...
Michael is proud man, he wouldn't let them do it again. Maybe they would promote his album well, but when somebody steal my money and destroy my career, I don't want to colaborate with them... They didn't excuse themself, so they are still the same.
They aint friends if they robbin me
Stoppin me from makin a profit, see
Apology shallow like the ocean
I guess Ill resort to gun totin
If I was dead broke and smokin
Id probably be by my lonesome
Im a killer nigga I aint jokin
Endo smoke got me choked and Im hopin
The fool comes slippin
So I could blowem open
This time around
I changed up my flow
Got rid of the rocks
Got pits by the door
Ive raised other peoples to watch my back
Stay away from strangers
So I wont slack
And I know my nigga mike like that
 
yeah Sony never releases the stuff that should be rereleased..if they're going to do this I thing they should stop rereleasing thriller I swear this is the 5th time they did that..I can't wait for the new stuff...but like someone else said they need to do the concerts...and put something out that isn't already out....Michael seriously has to have the best back catalog around..I always see his albums in the pop catalog chart on billboard
 
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Well MJ owns the right of his own music, so he has the power to say yes or no to those crap releases... and he has the power to put some dvds on the market or the unreleased songs instead.
So it is not Sony fault but Michael's... if you know better the situazion regarding the rights of Mj's music, please explain it, bacause right now it sounds like it is Michael who agrees with those "best of"
 
Dangerous Incorporated said:
I was at a CD store yesterday and The Essentials Collection, Number Ones and all the Special Editions were being sold for $10 (where the average album is sold for $30 here in Oz) @ more than one store! MJ's music has been devalued. Before the releases of Thriller, Thriller was selling for $30 20 years later because it was MJs biggest selling album still and Sony could the money for it.
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omygosh yes! I was at a CD store too, and they were on sale :eek: I asked a guy who worked there: why are they on sale?, and he said; well..time after time we see CD's that no one buys, put them all together and sell them cheaper then they are well I was like okay:p..Anyway I wanted to prove thatt there ARE people who buy them, so I buyed the BAD & DANGEROUS, and 2 thriller 25 albums again for a gift, for 25.

and, I agree with.. ''Anyway'' :p
 
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My main problem with Sony is the fact that they're making a lot of money off of the fans...I know some of you may say that no one is making you buy this compilations, BUT: as Risky said, I can't just sit there knowing there's an MJ album out there an not get it beause I want it to be on the charts, I can't stand knowing it's sitting there and people aren't buying it.
Maybe I'm plain stupid, but if there's a MJ piece of merchandice or music out there I'm getting it.

So...Sony has been milking the fans this way for years yet they have complete disregard to what the fans DO WANT! such as DVD's and rareties. Why? Because it's easier to sell Thriller than to sell One More Chance to the average Joe and all they care about is quick and easy money.

MJ*PP said:
omygosh yes! I was at a CD store too, and they were on sale :eek: I asked a guy who worked there: why are they on sale?, and he said; well..time after time we see CD's that no one buys, put them all together and sell them cheaper then they are well I was like okay:p..Anyway I wanted to prove thatt there ARE people who buy them, so I buyed the BAD & DANGEROUS, and 2 thriller 25 albums again for a gift, for 25.
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Funny you should say that, the same happened to me yesterday, Thriller SE and Number 1s were ON SALE! And I just got them to prove people that there are still fans out there :(
 
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DI: I could not see yet if your initial question, but there is no way Michael Can "force" Sony-BMG ME/Epic Records/Legacy Records to do anything beyond contractual obligations, which do not contain conditions that the company will obey to Jackson's wishes on those matters.

Sony-BMG is exclusive copyrights holder for all Michael's music (while he remains copyright owner) -- what release and how release is, in the end, company's business. That is why when Mottola decided to stop promotion and music videos productions for "Invincible" Jackson could do nothing about.

Michael can be consulted about or had to agree only on rather specific matters (which we do not know about since the contract is confidential) but no more than that.

Also, there was no ever information Michael owns any part of Sony or Sony-BMG ME. He owns half of Sony-ATV MP, though.

We know from Jackson that he is no fan of re-releases, greatest hits and remix compilations. But the label always wanted those types of records from Michael since ones generate huge sales and profits. Many people do not know but most part of sales of the likes of Elvis, Elton John and Beatles are from re-releases, compilations, and re-compilations.

This time it is also possible that Jackson would not be agaist another release since it somewhat useful in terms of finances.
 
Anyway said:
Well MJ owns the right of his own music, so he has the power to say yes or no to those crap releases... and he has the power to put some dvds on the market or the unreleased songs instead.
So it is not Sony fault but Michael's... if you know better the situazion regarding the rights of Mj's music, please explain it, bacause right now it sounds like it is Michael who agrees with those "best of"
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Sometimes I think, this is Sony's fans community not community of Michael's fans :) (lol)
As fare as I know, Michael wanted to release much more projects with unreleased songs, he wanted to release Dangerous special edition with unreleased songs, 7 singles from INVINCIBLE with 1 unreleased song on each. That was in 2002, but Sony refused it, they released many boring project instead. Not for Michael's fans, but for the general public. Maybe Michael could say yes or not, but something is still better than nothing, naturally he wamts to earn some money...
 
Well, I can see your point, but they really do that with most artists. I'm a fan of Dolly Parton, and they've got Essential 1 and 2 for her, Best of, Greatest hits, Love songs, Legendary, The Great, Ultimate, Artist Collection, the RCA years, another Greatest hits album, The love album, I will always love you and other great hits, the best there is... Holy crap! I didn't even realize there were that many until I started looking, but i knew there was a lot! Obviously Michael's is nowhere near that range. At least with History, there was a CD of new material with the greatest hits, and then with the Ultimate collection there was a lot of unreleased material. I also know they've done that with Elvis; they put out compilation after compilation after compilation.
The thing is, some of the collections are good for fans to get, esp. if there is something new on it, and it's good for people who just became fans. BUT, I really do think that Sony should listen to Michael's fans if they want to sell a lot of CDs? albums? what do we call it these days? lol. anyway, they should put out unreleased songs since we all know Michael's got TONS of them, and some of my very favorite songs of his were previously unreleased!
 
KOPV said:
Creating more 'Best Of's' destroy the value of a song....

It becomes like a handy down... the more it's re-released in 'Best Of's' the worth of that song becomes that much less valuable..

PLUS, I personally want people to buy THRILLER to get the songs on there.. Buy BAD to get the songs on there.. etc... Help there sales, and promote THOSE albums.. Not take pieces of them, and scatter them throughout different albums for cheap profit.

It's like taking a master piece and sticking your finger in it..

Like taking 5 great paintings.. They are all great, but what happens if you take, the hand from painting #1 and put it with painting #2's arm, and #3's body..

That masterpiece has now been disfigured.. Has many essentials from great pieces, but lacking the essential pieces to create the real picture..
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:clapping: You make so much sense, it's scary! Sony should just hire some MJ fans to decide what to do with his music, lol
 
butterflies said:
Well, I can see your point, but they really do that with most artists. I'm a fan of Dolly Parton, and they've got Essential 1 and 2 for her, Best of, Greatest hits, Love songs, Legendary, The Great, Ultimate, Artist Collection, the RCA years, another Greatest hits album, The love album, I will always love you and other great hits, the best there is... Holy crap! I didn't even realize there were that many until I started looking, but i knew there was a lot! Obviously Michael's is nowhere near that range. At least with History, there was a CD of new material with the greatest hits, and then with the Ultimate collection there was a lot of unreleased material. I also know they've done that with Elvis; they put out compilation after compilation after compilation.
The thing is, some of the collections are good for fans to get, esp. if there is something new on it, and it's good for people who just became fans. BUT, I really do think that Sony should listen to Michael's fans if they want to sell a lot of CDs? albums? what do we call it these days? lol. anyway, they should put out unreleased songs since we all know Michael's got TONS of them, and some of my very favorite songs of his were previously unreleased!
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Sony should listen to Michael first of all, it's his career, his life, his work... Michael is profesional, he was king of pop in 11 years and now he is king in 50. He know's best what to do...
 
lada said:
Sony should listen to Michael first of all, it's his career, his life, his work... Michael is profesional, he was king of pop in 11 years and now he is king in 50. He know's best what to do...
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Agreed, but since Sony just cares about making money, they should do what they know will sell. They should listen to us because we are the ones buying it all. I know we are just a small percentage (on here) of Michael's fans, but I think that since all of us actually agree, there is a good chance that most of his other fans would agree too. Unreleased songs and more DVDs!
 
moonchild said:
When can Michael leave sony?
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My recollection is that Mike would leave once he released his final contractual album for them and that was "Number Ones" (2003). Ever since the trial, however, things are not so clear since some people think Sony is doing a good job resurrecting MJ to the public's eye.
 
denisrs said:
DI: I could not see yet if your initial question, but there is no way Michael Can "force" Sony-BMG ME/Epic Records/Legacy Records to do anything beyond contractual obligations, which do not contain conditions that the company will obey to Jackson's wishes on those matters.

Sony-BMG is exclusive copyrights holder for all Michael's music (while he remains copyright owner) -- what release and how release is, in the end, company's business. That is why when Mottola decided to stop promotion and music videos productions for "Invincible" Jackson could do nothing about.

Michael can be consulted about or had to agree only on rather specific matters (which we do not know about since the contract is confidential) but no more than that.

Also, there was no ever information Michael owns any part of Sony or Sony-BMG ME. He owns half of Sony-ATV MP, though.

We know from Jackson that he is no fan of re-releases, greatest hits and remix compilations. But the label always wanted those types of records from Michael since ones generate huge sales and profits. Many people do not know but most part of sales of the likes of Elvis, Elton John and Beatles are from re-releases, compilations, and re-compilations.

This time it is also possible that Jackson would not be agaist another release since it somewhat useful in terms of finances.
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This is why I don't understand why some assume MJ co-owns Sony BMG (thank Maxxx for saying he was a board member there, lol, when really the only board he's a part of is trying to keep his three kids in line, lol). I really don't think it's Michael's doing. Labels do this normally to artists to get money back in their dying stable because new albums by artists don't perform as well as they ought to because labels keep making stock over the budget of producing and artists lose a lot of money because of that.
 
vncwilliam said:
that might be true if he was like any other nostalgia artist and his music was like any other nostalgia music, but it's not.
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Other than THRILLER, I can't see him NOT being seen as "nostalgia". Yes, his legacy is still indebted in today's artists but looking at MJ the musician, because he hasn't put out anything in years, some automatically assume he is. That's why we get these tired has-been articles about him. Because he rose so BIG and fell so sharply according to them based on tabloids, his behavior and comparing other albums' sales to THRILLER which is basically MJ's crux now.
 
troubleman84 said:
Other than THRILLER, I can't see him NOT being seen as "nostalgia". Yes, his legacy is still indebted in today's artists but looking at MJ the musician, because he hasn't put out anything in years, some automatically assume he is. That's why we get these tired has-been articles about him. Because he rose so BIG and fell so sharply according to them based on tabloids, his behavior and comparing other albums' sales to THRILLER which is basically MJ's crux now.
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well..perhaps the media want people to see him that way..but the media is notorious for underestimating the general public. and assuming that the general public is stupid.

in fact, if it were not for chris brown, justin timberlake, usher, mario and the like..the media would have tried to convince the general public that MJ has NO legacy.

that's one reason why i'm a fan of musicians who give props to Mike.
 
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As to Michael leaving Sony, there is such possibility. However, as new Jackson's production "Thriller 25" showed, he obviously prolonged the contract for at least that project. There is no information if the collaboration will continue or not. The maximum probability is that Michael will stay with Sony-BMG ME/ER/LR, though certain terms of contract re-negotiation is possible.

New media types like iTunes Music Store to be addressed, for example. The matter with this is that Sony-BMG ME/ER/LR does not actually bear distribution costs like producing promo singles, sending it through thousands of radio stations, making bribery deals to get in rotation, and so on (though real-world sales still bear those costs).

So Michael having like 25% of sales through iTMS can be too low. However, as I pointed above, the matter is complicated so there is not necessary will be change of percentage that Jackson gets from sales, even if negotiations will start.
 
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I remember Sony saying there would be so happy to promote and distribute MJ new album... and what they knew is that he was producing it by himself and then they hope he will ask them to ditribute it. It was a while ago, but I still think things are like that, after Mottola Sony has supported MJ, the only bad things are those best of.
 
Sony & Michael are probably on good terms, especially considering the Thriller 25 was massive! It made at least around 3 of my friends turn into Michael fans, with my extra tug of course ^_^ They are definitely not hurting his reputation, considering it made more people notice how popular he is, with selling 2 million copies of a re-re-re-release! People really saw that he can still sell ^_^
 
And like it's said in the other thread, if they REALLY love Michael and Michael loves them back, release the DVDs of pre-Dangerous tours! Sheesh... :lol:
 
All record labels put out many compilations for popular artists, not just Sony. They license songs out to things like the Time-Life series, Kids Bop CDs, movie soundtracks, TV commercials, singing fish, video games, etc. There's also those low budget CDs that sell for 4 or 5 dollars with the bigger hits. It's not called the music BUSINESS for nothing. The only purpose is to make money.
 
I was in HMV today and saw those new double packs which is in a cardboard slip case. You could buy off the wall and thriller as one set, bad and dangerous as another or blood on the dance floor and invincible as another.

There was a sale and you could get two of these sets for €15 THATS 4 ALBUMS FOR €15!!! Its crazy. I think Michael's music is way under valued
 
DuranDuran said:
All record labels put out many compilations for popular artists, not just Sony. They license songs out to things like the Time-Life series, Kids Bop CDs, movie soundtracks, TV commercials, singing fish, video games, etc. There's also those low budget CDs that sell for 4 or 5 dollars with the bigger hits. It's not called the music BUSINESS for nothing. The only purpose is to make money.
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And that's why they're still doing what they're doing because if it was to support the artist, you would think the guy would be out there saying "BUY THIS", the only reason to make him an exec. producer on the hits sets is only to make MJ have money so he'll just agree to it as a business deal. It's not really benefiting him as an artist but more making sure his legacy gets raped by increasingly put out material that people have in hopes the label organization don't get into that patch that the Warner Music Group is at.

The only reason Sony ain't struggling is because success still emerges from their subsidiary labels and they have one of the biggest music publishings around co-owned by MJ and they're not about to let that go.
 
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