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Is Michael's Will Really Valid?

  • Thread starter Dangerous Incorporated
  • Start date
Dangerous Incorporated said:
:smilerolleyes: Hoax again? All of that? No.

I got this from the actually website. I posted it after the 28th Jan too and thought it was strange that we did not hear anything about it from the media.

I dont know what any of this means.
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Right, it was definitely on the website before the hearing. It's not yet included on the list of past hearings, but that doesn't mean anything because Joe's allowance hearing isn't up either, so it probably just hasn't been updated yet.
I'm not sure about this recent revocation hearing, but back in the summer the gossip sites reported that a woman called Charlene Buie (she's on the Parties' list as objector) claimed that she had a handwritten will and the other will was fake. TMZ called her crazy, this is the article: http://www.tmz.com/2009/08/28/michael-jackson-estate-hearing/ Never heard anything more about it, maybe this is what the court ruled on now?
 
Victoria83 said:
Dangerous, your post, with documents, is brilliant, and chilling. . . . . We've been "told" that the earlier will is identical. We don't actually know this. And there is so much more that is irregular.

And Ivy? An attorney's job is to see that everything in every document is exactly correct. Every "t" crossed and "i" dotted. The fact that someone signed "L.A." when in New York is incredibly sloppy. Unbelievably so. That the will of the world's most famous person would have errors is simply outrageous!
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An attorney with a wealthy, important client would naturally get special treatment & made sure everything was done absolutely by the book. And I know legally in CA you do not have to have wills notarized but it only makes sense that you would do it for your important client, making absolutely sure. Most offices have a notary.

I found this post by TSCM in a different thread, the Allgood contract that Dileo signed was notarized. Really made me think:

I haven't followed much court stuff at all since June 25th. But, if Frank seriously claimed that his signature was false then surely he would have filed a criminal complaint against AllGood many months ago for forgery.

Frank's notarized signature, on his company overhead, appears more than once across several different agreements and contracts with AllGood.



 
Courtney Love posted on her twitter page regarding Howard Wietzman and John Branca regarding her daughter's trust and Kurt Cobain's estate. Yes people will automatically attack Love's credibility but what she is saying is not that surprising considering Branca's past actions against Michael:
Fight for it to be, i trusted my alwyer our laywer rosemary liek i trusted my lawyer Howard Weitzman like i trusted my lawyer John Branca 34 minutes ago from web

Kurts estate and his daughters trust and all of my monies Hole and Nirvana have been diverted to weitzman and branca now jacksons estate 18 minutes ago from web

now any smart musician knows you never EVER sell publishing whatsoever, but weitman who oozes so much charm for such a tiny fella 13 minutes ago from web

certainly no frances's at one time Weitzman in 05 had me believeing i had no choice but to sell some publishing of kurt 14 minutes ago from web
http://m.twitter.com/courtneylover79
http://drumsandguns.livejournal.com/
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So if they way Branca is treating Cobain's estate is anything to go by, you can expect hell to break lose because Branca dealing with the Jacksons is different than Branca dealing with Love.

Kurt Cobain estate 'loses' $750m

$750m gone from Cobain's estate Fake accounts used to buy, sell property Homes to be donated to credit crisis victims



KURT Cobain's estate has lost all the money left to his widow Courtney Love and their daughter, Frances Bean, in an alleged money laundering scam.
The New York Post reports bank accounts using the social security numbers of Cobain, Love and Frances Bean were allegedly set up to buy and sell real estate across the US.
"There is now a web of homes which were bought, flipped and used to launder money - up to $US500 million worth," Love's lawyer Rhonda J. Holmes said.

"Any of the property we can get back will be donated to people who have lost their homes in foreclosures."








Investigators, forensic accountants and lawyers hired by Love found that the Nirvana singer's estate had lost more than $45 million cash and up to $705 million in real estate.
"I have never seen such greed and moral turpitude. This case is going to make Bernard Madoff look warm and fuzzy," Ms Holmes said.
"We've only been able to track down $US30 million, but there is more. And then there is the real estate."

Ms Holmes said that Love only noticed the money was gone when there wasn't any left.
Kurt Cobain, the lead singer of hit nineties grunge band Nirvana, was found dead in his home in 1994.
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Wow, just wow. And didn't Bain put out a statement once that they had discovered a major conspiracy to bankrupt Mj. Why was that not followed up and who were these people, just thinking out loud.
 
:bugeyed: If we could get more details of the story that would be nice, cause if this is true...wow
 
Will / Can Courtney Love sue the estate executors or take any legal action about this ???
 
DI, if you think you can confirm this info (is it really her twitter account ? ), you should start a new thread about the Kurt Cobain estate. From her tweets, she is accusing John Branca and Weitzman, so that would be relevant here.
 
bouee said:
DI, if you think you can confirm this info (is it really her twitter account ? ), you should start a new thread about the Kurt Cobain estate. From her tweets, she is accusing John Branca and Weitzman, so that would be relevant here.
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I agree, this is a serious thing.
 
I can't see how Michael would have put into his will that if the will were contested that would remove the contesting person as heir. What OTHER recourse would an heir have if the executors were doing things that were not appropriate?

This was the will of the world's most famous person, and in this case, ESPECIALLY, one would expect that it would be "perfect" in all details. Having one witness' location WRONG is a glaring error that would not be expected in such an important will. The children's names should have been utterly consistent.

Even if notarization is not required in California, it would be expected for such an important document. MY will is notarized. Attorneys' offices have notaries on-staff.

There was no provision for the estate to transfer to the children when they come of age. Michael put his children FIRST, and I'm sure he would not want their incomes to be controlled for all of their lives, by others. He had the example of Elvis and LMP, where the management of the estate transferred to HER. She has done a great job with that, and Michael would have expected no less from his children.

It was not mentioned that there were any other copies of the will. It is standard practice to make multiple copies of a will, one of which is retained by the person whose will it IS. No such document was found in Michael's home that has ever been mentioned. He put his children FIRST, and surely would have had multiple copies of his will.

I don't think Miichael would have left the promotion of his artistic legacy to ATTORNEYS, but would have designated someone to oversee what music would be released. The release of the TII song was bungled on a number of levels. Much of the music Michael left behind was in various stages of completion. He was a perfectionist, yet it seems that in this "will" he "failed" to ensure that his artistic legacy would be promoted with the utmost care, by someone who understood the MUSIC.

So much about this will makes NO sense, compared to what does make sense.
 
In the remote possibility that this will is valid, Mike did not expect to pass so soon or had plans to draft a new one shortly.
And some people knew about that.
But so far I tend to believe that there has been a third will after 7/7/02 which of course disappeared.
 
I will never believe this will is valid! Michael fired Branca in 2003! Because he didn't trust him!
No one will make me believe that Michael wouldn't have taken steps to draft a new will protecting his children and mother from people he didn't trust!
Branca kept that will when the letter Michael sent, told him to turn over all documents that had anything to do with him!
He lay in wait until he and his accomplices found a way to get everything from MJ! Even his belongings!
 
Now there is a very bad precedent of Branca as an estate executor!!
OMG I hope the family can legally use this against him.

May I ask something?
If a person appointed as an estate executor is prosecuted,does he get removed from this position as inadequate?

BTW Love's twitter account does not exist.Removed??
 
^^Yes her account was removed but in the new thread I started, her twitter is confirmed by a new report regarding the missing $750m.
 
Victoria83 said:
I can't see how Michael would have put into his will that if the will were contested that would remove the contesting person as heir. What OTHER recourse would an heir have if the executors were doing things that were not appropriate?

There was no provision for the estate to transfer to the children when they come of age. Michael put his children FIRST, and I'm sure he would not want their incomes to be controlled for all of their lives, by others. .
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Okay some legal info:
- No contest clause is put to make sure that the wishes are followed. Pretty common practice in highly valuable estates.

- No contest clause does not mean that you can't contest the will, it means if you contest and lose it at trial you'll be removed from the will. (Example a person leaves one relative 10% and the other one 90%. the first one contests the will demanding equal share. If the judge rejects this by saying that the person does not have to leave equal shares to people then he loses his 10%)

- If executors do something inappropriate, illegal you can always sue them. I think I gave the example of Martin Luther King estate before. His 2 children sued the estate executors for taking out money from the estate that they weren't supposed to (basically stealing money). Just yesterday the co-trustee of Kurt Cobain's estate requested documents showing money spendings from Cortney Love. These are completely different issue and are not considered to be contesting the will. Unlike what many people think, executors cannot do anything that they like without consequences. Executors are required to follow the estate provisions and state estate laws , if they don't they can be sued in a court of law.

- The provisions are mentioned in the trust. Remember we don't see the 40-40-20 distribution in the will as well. They are all mentioned in the trust which is private. So whether the estate will transfer to the children or not is unknown and we all can only speculate about them.

and furthermore even though the will is written in 2002, he could have been updating or changing the provisions of his trust months even years later.

Overall the most important document is actually the trust as it has all the provisions, assets, distributions etc in it. But it is and will remain secret. And that's why many rich and famous people use trusts so that no one will know the details and assets and the heirs will not become targets for money hungry people.
 
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Victoria83 said:
I can't see how Michael would have put into his will that if the will were contested that would remove the contesting person as heir. What OTHER recourse would an heir have if the executors were doing things that were not appropriate?

This was the will of the world's most famous person, and in this case, ESPECIALLY, one would expect that it would be "perfect" in all details. Having one witness' location WRONG is a glaring error that would not be expected in such an important will. The children's names should have been utterly consistent.

Even if notarization is not required in California, it would be expected for such an important document. MY will is notarized. Attorneys' offices have notaries on-staff.

There was no provision for the estate to transfer to the children when they come of age. Michael put his children FIRST, and I'm sure he would not want their incomes to be controlled for all of their lives, by others. He had the example of Elvis and LMP, where the management of the estate transferred to HER. She has done a great job with that, and Michael would have expected no less from his children.

It was not mentioned that there were any other copies of the will. It is standard practice to make multiple copies of a will, one of which is retained by the person whose will it IS. No such document was found in Michael's home that has ever been mentioned. He put his children FIRST, and surely would have had multiple copies of his will.

I don't think Miichael would have left the promotion of his artistic legacy to ATTORNEYS, but would have designated someone to oversee what music would be released. The release of the TII song was bungled on a number of levels. Much of the music Michael left behind was in various stages of completion. He was a perfectionist, yet it seems that in this "will" he "failed" to ensure that his artistic legacy would be promoted with the utmost care, by someone who understood the MUSIC.

So much about this will makes NO sense, compared to what does make sense.
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I agree, alot about this will does not make sense.

"There was no provision for the estate to transfer to the children when they come of age. Michael put his children FIRST, and I'm sure he would not want their incomes to be controlled for all of their lives, by others. He had the example of Elvis and LMP, where the management of the estate transferred to HER. She has done a great job with that, and Michael would have expected no less from his children."

I though about this just last night - I find it impossible to believe he would not want his children to control his estate & money when they are of age. It seems he was training them to perhaps go into film. His father Joe fought for them to have artistic control when they left Motown & became the Jacksons, MJ was fighting against Sony for control, he was fighting for all music artists, especially black artists to have economic control of their work - and then not let his own children have control of his legacy and according to Weitzman's latest doc filing - it would be set for generations. MJ was already relying on Prince.

I also don't think he would have just mentioned 3T, Levon, Elijah & Anthony as contingent beneficiaries, (although contingent beneficiaries most,likely never get anything) & leaving out his other nieces & nephews. I think he loved them all & would want to be fair - not cause problems in any event.
 
jrsfan said:
Levon, Elijah & Anthony as contingent beneficiaries, (although contingent beneficiaries most,likely never get anything) & leaving out his other nieces & nephews. I think he loved them all & would want to be fair - not cause problems in any event.
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Levon, Elijah and Anthony are MJs cousins right?
They are part of his "PRIVATE HOME VIDEOS".. you can see some kids push MJ into the pool?
 
Vici said:
Levon, Elijah and Anthony are MJs cousins right?
They are part of his "PRIVATE HOME VIDEOS".. you can see some kids push MJ into the pool?
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I think you are correct - I don't know for a fact, but that is my memory too.

Just guessing - I'm going to bet they were part of the Applehead club during the Victory tour.

I wish I could see DD report on MJ memorabilia that Vacarro had- I thought she had an Applehead club list in her report.

I think he added members to it, so it seems odd that he wouldn't add them to his will - seems a bit out of date, kind of like Diana Ross.
 
Maria MJ said:
Now there is a very bad precedent of Branca as an estate executor!!
OMG I hope the family can legally use this against him.

May I ask something?
If a person appointed as an estate executor is prosecuted,does he get removed from this position as inadequate?

BTW Love's twitter account does not exist.Removed??
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Dangerous Incorporated said:
^^Yes her account was removed but in the new thread I started, her twitter is confirmed by a new report regarding the missing $750m.
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It was removed because she made some claims on there about some woman and the woman was going to sue her. It was real though.
 
I also found it odd that Diana Ross was chosen to look after the kids (if Katherine couldnt). Its as if someone just picked a person that they knew MJ liked and went with it. Diana Ross didnt even know that she was included in the Will. Michael would have discussed it with her Im sure.
 
Me too DI...
If you were to choose a backup person in your will to look after your kids,wouldn't you have discussed it with him/her in the first place?
What if this person was not willing to do it should the need arise?
Either DR is lying or the will has been entirely "constructed".
 
Dangerous Incorporated said:
I also found it odd that Diana Ross was chosen to look after the kids (if Katherine couldnt). Its as if someone just picked a person that they knew MJ liked and went with it. Diana Ross didnt even know that she was included in the Will. Michael would have discussed it with her Im sure.
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Of course michael would of discuss this with Diana Ross..I'm not going to say much but think of it this way the people who are running his estate outed every one who was close to MJ out of the "will" to make sure they evil won't come out so they made sure those people got replace. The truth will come out
 
Maria MJ said:
Me too DI...
If you were to choose a backup person in your will to look after your kids,wouldn't you have discussed it with him/her in the first place?
What if this person was not willing to do it should the need arise?
Either DR is lying or the will has been entirely "constructed".
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IMO the will was constructed by someone who knew MJ well during the Victory tour. Dileo, Katz & Branca - all in the Victory tour. The applehead club list - from the tour. And Katz, Dileo, Branca - all back. I'm not sure if they pieced together different parts of an old will or how it was done. But its definitely fishy for all the reasons we have gone thru.

I wish we could see the older will. Noone has it. Wonder why?
 
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Dangerous Incorporated said:
Actually Branca has that one too.
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You're right, he did have both wills. There is a copy supposedly filed with the court, but noone has it online or news organisation is more accurately what I meant. Which is odd. Tmz on one of their live updates or whatever you call them, said they would get it but they haven't. Branca is listed as one of the executors is what is reported. I would think it would be a public document, but maybe its not. It would be interesting to see.
 
ivy said:
Okay some legal info:
- No contest clause is put to make sure that the wishes are followed. Pretty common practice in highly valuable estates.

- No contest clause does not mean that you can't contest the will, it means if you contest and lose it at trial you'll be removed from the will. (Example a person leaves one relative 10% and the other one 90%. the first one contests the will demanding equal share. If the judge rejects this by saying that the person does not have to leave equal shares to people then he loses his 10%)

- If executors do something inappropriate, illegal you can always sue them. I think I gave the example of Martin Luther King estate before. His 2 children sued the estate executors for taking out money from the estate that they weren't supposed to (basically stealing money). Just yesterday the co-trustee of Kurt Cobain's estate requested documents showing money spendings from Cortney Love. These are completely different issue and are not considered to be contesting the will. Unlike what many people think, executors cannot do anything that they like without consequences. Executors are required to follow the estate provisions and state estate laws , if they don't they can be sued in a court of law.

- The provisions are mentioned in the trust. Remember we don't see the 40-40-20 distribution in the will as well. They are all mentioned in the trust which is private. So whether the estate will transfer to the children or not is unknown and we all can only speculate about them.

and furthermore even though the will is written in 2002, he could have been updating or changing the provisions of his trust months even years later.

Overall the most important document is actually the trust as it has all the provisions, assets, distributions etc in it. But it is and will remain secret. And that's why many rich and famous people use trusts so that no one will know the details and assets and the heirs will not become targets for money hungry people.
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A couple of things that we do know from the recent filings is that the trustees get control for generations. That just doesn't add up. MJ would never have done that IMO. Each family has a culture. Joe's father was a teacher, MJ has always said his father taught him - MJ was obviously teaching his sons & daughter & he always dreamed big. I just don't think he would want his kids to have an allowance & control not be theirs. It does not make sense.

Another thing that is bothering me - is that McClain is reportedly ill & that means that Branca would be the sole executor.
 
jrsfan said:
A couple of things that we do know from the recent filings is that the trustees get control for generations. That just doesn't add up. MJ would never have done that IMO. Each family has a culture. Joe's father was a teacher, MJ has always said his father taught him - MJ was obviously teaching his sons & daughter & he always dreamed big. I just don't think he would want his kids to have an allowance & control not be theirs. It does not make sense.

Another thing that is bothering me - is that McClain is reportedly ill & that means that Branca would be the sole executor.
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yes one of the documents said "making the estate profitable for generations to come". now for a moment let's put all emotions to side and think rationally.

michael jackson's estate is not a regular estate / inheritance that consists of simply some properties and certain amount of money (for example elvis, cobain estates are quite regular). All the money and assets aside MJ's estate has 2 companies (MJJ productions and MJ Kingdom) and 2 music catalogs (SONY/ATV and Mijac). And believe me when I say this can't be managed by a regular person, you need to have professionals.

Now there's no way that we can know whether his kids will have the ability or will be willing to take on such a task. you would not want to leave this job completely to them either - how many times have we heard heirs spending all the inheritance or bankrupting the business just because they don't have the ability or knowledge (or just reckless) to run such a business. yet at the same time I agree with you and think that michael would not just give them an allowance. so I'm actually thinking about a combination scenario where the kids get to have a seat / have voting power/ become an executor when they turn 21/25 with the professional executors. when I think rationally this is the best of 2 worlds - yes you give them increased power over their fathers estate but yet keep professionals involved to ensure that this estate will indeed be able to provide for generations to come..

for the second part as far as I remember the will allows executors to determine their successors. so McClain always can do that.
 
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ivy said:
Now there's no way that we can know whether his kids will have the ability or will be willing to take on such a task.
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The kids should be in charge of the estate and they have the option to hire whoever they deem appropriate to take care of their business matters. Not give COMPLETE power to a guy Michael didnt trust and hope he doesnt screw the kids before they come of age. It's a dodgy set up atm. Which means to me that Michael didnt organise the Will.
 
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