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Is "Invincible" as good as previous MJ's Albums ?

Is Invincible as Good as previous MJ's Albums...

  • YES

    Votes: 188 64.6%

  • NO

    Votes: 103 35.4%
  • Total voters
    291
drewhiggins said:
Good list there but I'd remove The Lost Children - the worst song he has ever recorded, even more so than You Are Not Alone or Childhood) and replace it with Cry. The digital part is what I hate so much about it - I mean, it would have been great without those sounds and the boring ballads (at times) but for whatever reason MJ felt he had to fill up the entire running time even if it meant 50% of it was mediocre as all hell.

I mean we hear unfinished (and finished) stuff like The Way You Love Me, Fall Again and Escape and it makes you wonder why was the album not having songs like that? TWYLM could have been a real hit for that time on contemporary stations and with the general public yet You Rock My World was put out instead? I understand a video might have been a difficult task for that song but no reason one couldn't have been done. Short films can't rescue a mediocre song. Look at You Are Not Alone and Childhood.


Off-topic but I'm really enjoying this site - it's nice to have another place where I can talk about all things MJ-related and not).
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Erm. Childhood is amazing. I suggest you get some piano sheet music out for it. It's a gorgeous, rich use of harmony, it's really got some fantastic writing in it and can be quiet haunting if you play it yourself. I cannot believe you don't rate it and i can't understand why most fans don't. Maybe thats because it's not just a basic pop song done with riffs and loops and it's actually a realy piece of music.
 
MJultimatemusiclegen said:
Erm. Childhood is amazing. I suggest you get some piano sheet music out for it. It's a gorgeous, rich use of harmony, it's really got some fantastic writing in it and can be quiet haunting if you play it yourself. I cannot believe you don't rate it and i can't understand why most fans don't. Maybe thats because it's not just a basic pop song done with riffs and loops and it's actually a realy piece of music.
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I completely agree....To me, Childhood is like a classical piece...it showcases Michael's love for classical music..it's absolutely beautiful to me....
 
drewhiggins said:
It's an alright album (I've heard worse) but I think sometimes it just drags on whereas Dangerous is nearly as long but it doesn't drag and same with HIStory minus Childhood and You Are Not Alone and D.S.). More songs written by MJ solely would have been much better, relying less on the digital enhancements and actually creating feel-good songs, not ones that make you feel sad.


But the vocals in that album are great at times. Now it did have to be a full album minus remixes and I only like five of the songs on the album but if it had to have more to fill up the time:

Unbreakable (shorter without intro, no rap)
Heartbreaker (no rap and no frog-burping effect)
Heaven Can Wait
You Rock My World (without intro)
Butterflies (without intro)
2000 Watts (without the intro)
You Are My Life
Cry
Whatever Happens (without thankyou ending)
Threatened (with real drums)

So: less ballads, more beats and nothing dragging it down. YAML drags it a little but I like it.




That's true but no amount of sales whether it's 100million or 100 000 can save mediocrity or something that just isn't as good as we'd like it to be. If it had been done more 'live' than 'digital', it might have sounded older and more vintage but when you see songs like Escape getting leaked and others officially released like Fall Again or The Way You Love Me, one has to wonder: why save the good songs for a compo and the not-so-good ones for a proper album which you're promoting more.

And The Lost Children - don't get me started.
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You clearly hate later songs in Major keys. You seem to hate the childlike, light piano that is found in childhood and the similar feel with the accoustic guitar in the lost children. This is a personal preference of yours and doesn't make the song any less mediocre. These tracks are fantastic and far from mediocre, they are far more musical than the tracks you think are stronger.
Music is subjective, but i think we would all agree that for example the Planets suite is better written than the birdie song. There are certain things which just show the writer has the talent when writing to more confidently handle more complex things, and this how i would define being musical. The songs you have a dislike for with the exception of you are not alone, are actually some of his most musical tracks.
 
To Take the intro out of you rock my world, is like taking the intro out of billie jean. It's a catchy groove, that needs to be introduced layer by layer and it would suffer without it IMO.

The frog burping effect in Heartbreaker is not supposed to be noticed immediatly, it's supposed to almost subconciously add to the groove and stop it being too static, it's all part of the invincible sound, other wise you might as well have Justin Timberlakes Future Sex Love Sounds album.

And good look having the guts to kick BIG out of the Studio, or edit his studio time away :p And you can't really get rid of the intro for unbreakable, otherwise where would you propose the track should start?

I agree that Threatened could have perhaps had some changes, i mean it sounded awesome in this is it.
 
MJultimatemusiclegen said:
You clearly hate later songs in Major keys. You seem to hate the childlike, light piano that is found in childhood and the similar feel with the accoustic guitar in the lost children. This is a personal preference of yours and doesn't make the song any less mediocre. These tracks are fantastic and far from mediocre, they are far more musical than the tracks you think are stronger.
Music is subjective, but i think we would all agree that for example the Planets suite is better written than the birdie song. There are certain things which just show the writer has the talent when writing to more confidently handle more complex things, and this how i would define being musical. The songs you have a dislike for with the exception of you are not alone, are actually some of his most musical tracks.
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Most of the bands I like and the songs I like make use of light piano - one of my remixes is based around a piano score - as well as orchestration, strings and acoustic guitars. For the record, my favourite two MJ songs use piano: Is It Scary and Morphine.

With regards to Childhood, D.S. and The Lost Children I love the instrumentation behind them but the lyrics I can't stand of them. BTW forgive me if I sound dumb but what's the Planets Suite and would someone who is right into orchestration and piano like it?


To Take the intro out of you rock my world, is like taking the intro out of billie jean. It's a catchy groove, that needs to be introduced layer by layer and it would suffer without it IMO.

The frog burping effect in Heartbreaker is not supposed to be noticed immediatly, it's supposed to almost subconciously add to the groove and stop it being too static, it's all part of the invincible sound, other wise you might as well have Justin Timberlakes Future Sex Love Sounds album.

And good look having the guts to kick BIG out of the Studio, or edit his studio time away And you can't really get rid of the intro for unbreakable, otherwise where would you propose the track should start?

I agree that Threatened could have perhaps had some changes, i mean it sounded awesome in this is it.
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The talking bit in YRMW is the part I'm talking about - not the beat. I just find it way too cheesy - maybe the video version where Chris Tucker and Michael are in the restaraunt would have been a better intro part. I like that a lot more and crack up when I hear it.

I guess the rap in Unbreakable could be kept but in three straight tracks is a bit much. And those all sound the same - it took me a good while to hear that and notice how similar they were but they definitely are. I would start it with the sort of 'drop-in' sound going straight to the beat rather than use the bit where it sounds like aliens are talking to each other. It does remind me a bit of Scream, that intro part.

TII with Threatened sounded great. That's how it should have been.
 
MJultimatemusiclegen said:
Erm. Childhood is amazing. I suggest you get some piano sheet music out for it. It's a gorgeous, rich use of harmony, it's really got some fantastic writing in it and can be quiet haunting if you play it yourself. I cannot believe you don't rate it and i can't understand why most fans don't. Maybe thats because it's not just a basic pop song done with riffs and loops and it's actually a realy piece of music.
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MJultimatemusiclegen said:
You clearly hate later songs in Major keys. You seem to hate the childlike, light piano that is found in childhood and the similar feel with the accoustic guitar in the lost children. This is a personal preference of yours and doesn't make the song any less mediocre. These tracks are fantastic and far from mediocre, they are far more musical than the tracks you think are stronger.
Music is subjective, but i think we would all agree that for example the Planets suite is better written than the birdie song. There are certain things which just show the writer has the talent when writing to more confidently handle more complex things, and this how i would define being musical. The songs you have a dislike for with the exception of you are not alone, are actually some of his most musical tracks.
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MJultimatemusiclegen said:
To Take the intro out of you rock my world, is like taking the intro out of billie jean. It's a catchy groove, that needs to be introduced layer by layer and it would suffer without it IMO.

The frog burping effect in Heartbreaker is not supposed to be noticed immediatly, it's supposed to almost subconciously add to the groove and stop it being too static, it's all part of the invincible sound, other wise you might as well have Justin Timberlakes Future Sex Love Sounds album.

And good look having the guts to kick BIG out of the Studio, or edit his studio time away :p And you can't really get rid of the intro for unbreakable, otherwise where would you propose the track should start?

I agree that Threatened could have perhaps had some changes, i mean it sounded awesome in this is it.
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Wow,. We seriously need to talk sometime. I like your thinking, the way you worded your findings and thoughts. I'm interested in what you have to say. And you obviously know what you're saying. People like you can help people like me (who does not understand how to play a piano or how a song is really put together) appreciate michael more. :clapping: So good job.

I love Lost children!! MJ always has a song up his sleave that will haunt you if you listen to it and I mean really listen to it and feel it. It gets to ya.:dancin:
 
I don't know about others but when ever I think of MJ, Invincible comes to my mind, Speechless starts playing in the background..... Invincible is a big part of the image I have of MJ in my mind. Needless to say, in my opinion, it was the finest album MJ has produced till date ( very less people agree with me because I have a very non-traditional taste of music )
 
No its not... but Invincible is not as bad as the media and critics made it to be but compared to other MJ albums no....
 
drewhiggins said:
Most of the bands I like and the songs I like make use of light piano - one of my remixes is based around a piano score - as well as orchestration, strings and acoustic guitars. For the record, my favourite two MJ songs use piano: Is It Scary and Morphine.

With regards to Childhood, D.S. and The Lost Children I love the instrumentation behind them but the lyrics I can't stand of them. BTW forgive me if I sound dumb but what's the Planets Suite and would someone who is right into orchestration and piano like it?





The talking bit in YRMW is the part I'm talking about - not the beat. I just find it way too cheesy - maybe the video version where Chris Tucker and Michael are in the restaraunt would have been a better intro part. I like that a lot more and crack up when I hear it.

I guess the rap in Unbreakable could be kept but in three straight tracks is a bit much. And those all sound the same - it took me a good while to hear that and notice how similar they were but they definitely are. I would start it with the sort of 'drop-in' sound going straight to the beat rather than use the bit where it sounds like aliens are talking to each other. It does remind me a bit of Scream, that intro part.

TII with Threatened sounded great. That's how it should have been.
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See i didn't want to prejudge you, but i reckoned it could have the lyrical content that was really putting you off. It's very personal to mike, and can be offputting for some. But in the contents of things, they are just lyrics, and it's the composition, as well as the melody of the lyrics thats the composition, which is what really the track, and at least we agree they are far from mediocre. And yeah, i figured you may be talking about the talking part of you rock my world. I think it serves well if your gonna play the album from start to finish as it helps with the transition of moods between heaven can wait and your rock my world. It would sound a bit strange to just go straight into the four bass notes after heaven can wait. But for the track on it's own, the talking bit doesn't really work. I think MJ was thinking of the album as a whole when he included that.
 
drewhiggins said:
Most of the bands I like and the songs I like make use of light piano - one of my remixes is based around a piano score - as well as orchestration, strings and acoustic guitars. For the record, my favourite two MJ songs use piano: Is It Scary and Morphine.

With regards to Childhood, D.S. and The Lost Children I love the instrumentation behind them but the lyrics I can't stand of them. BTW forgive me if I sound dumb but what's the Planets Suite and would someone who is right into orchestration and piano like it?





The talking bit in YRMW is the part I'm talking about - not the beat. I just find it way too cheesy - maybe the video version where Chris Tucker and Michael are in the restaraunt would have been a better intro part. I like that a lot more and crack up when I hear it.

I guess the rap in Unbreakable could be kept but in three straight tracks is a bit much. And those all sound the same - it took me a good while to hear that and notice how similar they were but they definitely are. I would start it with the sort of 'drop-in' sound going straight to the beat rather than use the bit where it sounds like aliens are talking to each other. It does remind me a bit of Scream, that intro part.

TII with Threatened sounded great. That's how it should have been.
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Oh and the Planets suite is an orchestral suite of classical (20th century) music. It has some hugely famous tunes in, and is the epitome of genius composing and aranging in my view. I think michael has mentioned it as a favorite although i can't remember where, as well as works by Debussy which he mentioned in Moonwalk.
 
mjscarousal said:
No its not... but Invincible is not as bad as the media and critics made it to be but compared to other MJ albums no....
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I agree.

In my opinion, it's okay but not great like Off The Wall, Thriller, Bad, Dangerous, and History. There are a lot of things about Invincible that annoy me though, which is rare when it comes to any MJ music.
 
defdave said:
I agree.

In my opinion, it's okay but not great like Off The Wall, Thriller, Bad, Dangerous, and History. There are a lot of things about Invincible that annoy me though, which is rare when it comes to any MJ music.
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i'm a lot more annoyed by History than by Invincible...
 
MJultimatemusiclegen said:
See i didn't want to prejudge you, but i reckoned it could have the lyrical content that was really putting you off. It's very personal to mike, and can be offputting for some. But in the contents of things, they are just lyrics, and it's the composition, as well as the melody of the lyrics thats the composition, which is what really the track, and at least we agree they are far from mediocre. And yeah, i figured you may be talking about the talking part of you rock my world. I think it serves well if your gonna play the album from start to finish as it helps with the transition of moods between heaven can wait and your rock my world. It would sound a bit strange to just go straight into the four bass notes after heaven can wait. But for the track on it's own, the talking bit doesn't really work. I think MJ was thinking of the album as a whole when he included that.
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No worries. What you've written up there really answers what I thought of the album as a whole. I know those lyrics were pretty personal for Childhood and You Are Not Alone - HIStory as a whole is - but just Invincible's lyrics seem few and far between great.

The talking in YRMW when you do think about it should be there but as a normal track it doesn't need to be. At least it wasn't another rap.


Oh and the Planets suite is an orchestral suite of classical (20th century) music. It has some hugely famous tunes in, and is the epitome of genius composing and aranging in my view. I think michael has mentioned it as a favorite although i can't remember where, as well as works by Debussy which he mentioned in Moonwalk.
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I'll have to look those up.
 
On Invicible i really missed MJ's trade mark sounds like ''Hee hee'' and ''Shamone''
 
drewhiggins said:
With regards to Childhood, D.S. and The Lost Children I love the instrumentation behind them but the lyrics I can't stand of them.
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I agree with you about the lyrics, but in terms of instrumentation they are amazing. Usually I can't understand what he's saying, but these are the few times I can so I try to zone out on the actual lyrics and just focus on it as one big piece of music.



drewhiggins said:
The talking bit in YRMW is the part I'm talking about - not the beat. I just find it way too cheesy - maybe the video version where Chris Tucker and Michael are in the restaraunt would have been a better intro part. I like that a lot more and crack up when I hear it.
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I think it's funny, but it should have been added as in something separate rather than part of the song. This is one decision I didn't agree with RJ about.
 
redcrush said:
I agree with you about the lyrics, but in terms of instrumentation they are amazing. Usually I can't understand what he's saying, but these are the few times I can so I try to zone out on the actual lyrics and just focus on it as one big piece of music.
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The instrumentation is fantastic. All of it after Dangerous is. Little Susie, HIStory and Tabloid Junkie to name a few and some BOTDF instrumentation like Is It Scary are too.


I think it's funny, but it should have been added as in something separate rather than part of the song. This is one decision I didn't agree with RJ about.
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An interlude would have worked much better like on the YRMW single. It just sounds so cheesy - but then the rest of the song is pretty good so you can kinda forgive it, even if it was a totally stupid intro. About the 'restaraunt' intro, I think I'll add that to it and use that instead. Sure, it's not the original but anything is better.
 
mjjfan4ever said:
I LOVE the LOST CHILDREN *quickly runs out this thread*
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We'll have a whole gang of people running then. I really love it, it somehow grew immensely on me. The cello like sound going up at "I see the door simply wide open" is BEAUTIFUL, makes me melt.
Maybe it's the fact of having children, I don't know. Just imagine your children are "lost" and someone is singing this song for them, or he's just singing for the lost child in all of us. It's a wonderful song.
 
I could never understand the hate for The Lost Children and the love for Butterflies. In my opinion The Lost Children is a million times better than Butterflies. I've always found Butterflies to be really boring while The Lost Children gets under my skin (In a good way)

But each to their own
 
analogue said:
I could never understand the hate for The Lost Children and the love for Butterflies. In my opinion The Lost Children is a million times better than Butterflies. I've always found Butterflies to be really boring while The Lost Children gets under my skin (In a good way)

But each to their own
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Although I like Butterflies (love the acapella version even more), I can totally relate with how you think about The lost children. Just love that song it's great!!!!
 
I voted no, but that's just the reflection of my personal taste. In the most other aspect I bet Invincible is just as good as the others, but not in my ears. Never liked the mixing of the vocals - a bit too low I think.
A friend said to me a couple of weeks ago (with great passion in his voice) that Invincible sounded so fresh, and that a couple of songs sounded like they were made today and not 10y ago.
 
let me say something( im 32 years young)
i have been michael since 1990/91
as i got older my taste in music ( i listen to change)
my point of view we have different change in music
it don't matter if hate some of the songs on michael's invincible album
it sure does not make a less fan
it just you taste in music has changed and your not sure if you like/hate michael's new album
the way i hear it
michael kind went in a different with his music/invincible album
SONY-BMG persons did promate it like they want to
there was no new video clips to go with it and not many persons knew about
michael new album not many copies were sold
i kind went of topic
i say yes michael invincible was good album

off the wall has off the wall/don't stop til you enough
thriller has beat it/billie jean
bad has liberian girl
man n the mirror
dirty diana
dangerous has dangerous/ black or white/heal the world
history has
scream/strange in moscow/earth song
blood on the dance floor has ghosts/ blood on the dance floor/you are not alone
ivincible has heartbreaker/heaven can waite/speechless/cry
 
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