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heal the world anthems on MJ's next album

dancemasterman

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I think MJ shouldn't do these on this next albums. I'm kind of thinking there should be no slow songs at all really. I personally believe they should all be club bangers or rock.

I'm talking in terms of sucess and trying to appeal to the mass media. what do you guys think?

I also think they should NOT be about his personal life at all.
 
hmmmm.. i know what you mean.. it depends.. if thee song is like earth song (beautiful melody, great arrangement and orchestration, aswell as a screaming, angry Mike, it can be very appealing to the public.
 
I don't think it can. One of the things Michael has to do this time around is get people to admit to liking his music even if they don't like him as a person.

Heal the world type anthems wont have any credibility in most people's eyes. They will think he is doing it for his image.

He's gotta come out and say, with his music not literally speaking it, "you might not like me but you know you like this song. yeah I dare you to sit there and not get up and dance when you hear this."

that's really what he's gotta do. I know we all love MJ, but most people who buy his albums aren't die hard fanatics. Most of the people who will buy this album are not people who like him as a person. they just like him as a musician. that is why I don't think heal the world type anthems will work this album.

I'm not discrediting heal the world, man in the mirror, earthsong, or we are the world. I love the first three to death, but I just think it wont help him sell any albums.
 
I forgot to list we already had enough. that song is incredible even though it's another example to me of what he can't do.
 
wrong thread. This should be in the groove theory...and I completely disagree. Some of Michael's best work are slow songs.
 
MJ seems like a person who actually cares about his artistry and craft, and if he does, he'll release a real album of songs he cares about, not a disc of 'club bangers' for people to teenybop to and then forget about 2 weeks later. Anyway, who cares about appealing to the masses or commercial success? It's not everything in life. :smilerolleyes: Creative success should mean far more to a real artist than a couple number 1 singles and the thumbs up from the media. Hasn't he had enough success already? If he wants to go down the easy route, then he will, and he'll release all the crap Will.I.Am and Akon churned out for him.

And you're assuming that there even will be a new album, or more than one from your wording. Thinking that way when it comes to MJ is a mistake in my experience, you're only getting your hopes up and we don't even know if there will be a new album on the way at this point.

Plus, since you seem so intent on MJ 'having' to appeal to the public, just look again at the 4 songs you mentioned and then look again at their status as worldwide anthems, and the huge sales figures they had as singles.
 
Prince Of Pop said:
wrong thread. This should be in the groove theory...and I completely disagree. Some of Michael's best work are slow songs.
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some of his best work has been his slow songs. but I really don't think that is gonna work this time. It will probably offend people, because it will remind them of the allegations. Before it was always seen as this nice guy who wanted to help people and help children, and that is why it will remind them of it, and you don't want people thinking about that. It will distract them from the music and offend them.

that is why he also can not make any songs about the trial, the media, or his critics. I honestly think that will offend people.

what i'm saying is most listeners will say "who are you to preach to me about healing the world when you abuse children?" I know the overwhelming vast majority of people who hear it will immediately think of that. I know it sucks but they will, and there is no way for him to get around that. That is why he has to focus on songs that make you want to dance. That way people will concentrate on that and not other things.
 
Adore said:
MJ seems like a person who actually cares about his artistry and craft, and if he does, he'll release a real album of songs he cares about, not a disc of 'club bangers' for people to teenybop to and then forget about 2 weeks later..
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Are you trying to imply that MJ's fast dance songs are teenyboper songs? I mean come on. That is probably his single greatest talent.


..
Anyway, who cares about appealing to the masses or commercial success?..
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Probably that guy who is hundreds of millions in debt, you know MJ.
And probably the fans who wanna see music videos get produced for this album. Probably everybody rooting for him to be on top again.

..
It's not everything in life. :smilerolleyes: Creative success should mean far more to a real artist than a couple number 1 singles and the thumbs up from the media. Hasn't he had enough success already? If he wants to go down the easy route, then he will, and he'll release all the crap Will.I.Am and Akon churned out for him. ?..
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we haven't even heard this so called crap yet. Personally I'm dying to hear this album. I really anticipate a great album with a lot of great songs. You listen to the way MJ can scream now on gangsta or we already had enough. I think his voice has changed and were going to get deeper more growly vocals. I'm gonna explode if I don't hear it soon.
..
And you're assuming that there even will be a new album, or more than one from your wording. Thinking that way when it comes to MJ is a mistake in my experience, you're only getting your hopes up and we don't even know if there will be a new album on the way at this point.?..
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there will be an album.

.
Plus, since you seem so intent on MJ 'having' to appeal to the public, just look again at the 4 songs you mentioned and then look again at their status as worldwide anthems, and the huge sales figures they had as singles.
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all of them except for earthsong were prior to the 93 allegations. you can't deny that the trial took a beating on MJ's image. I'm not saying he isn't popular. I'm saying he's not as popular as he used to be and most of the people who like his music don't like him as a person. Plus those songs mentioned were a long time ago.
 
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MJ's brother said that for two years before thriller came out he had a piece of paper taped to the corner of the mirror that said "biggest album of all time" and every day he would look in the mirror and say this album was going to be the biggest of all time.

I think it's safe to say he cares about commercial success. It's kind of naive to think he doesn't.
 
dancemasterman said:
Are you trying to imply that MJ's fast dance songs are teenyboper songs? I mean come on. That is probably his single greatest talent.
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I'm not trying to imply anything. :smilerolleyes: You're reading too much into things. I'm saying that 'club bangers', dance tracks, whatever you want to call them nowadays all sound alike and are completely forgettable and worthless from an artistic point of view. Yes, if you put on an MJ record, like for instance DSTYGE, people will dance to it because it's familiar, but that does not mean it's in the same vein as clubby songs that people don't even listen to 2 years on. 'Fast' song =/= club banger.

dancemasterman said:
Probably that guy who is hundreds of millions in debt, you know MJ.
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Funny, seems to me if he desperately cared about making money and having more commercial success, he wouldn't have waited until 2009 to do something about his financial situation. His family are obviously more important to him than selling a few more records and pleasing his critics.

dancemasterman said:
Personally I'm dying to hear this album.
there will be an album.
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:lol: Sure, if you say so. Give me a reliable source.
Again, you're reading too much into things. Just because he's been in and out of studios on and off for a while doesn't mean anything from those sessions will be used. Even Akon acknowledged the possibility that Michael might not decide to do anything with those songs.

dancemasterman said:
MJ's brother said that for two years before thriller came out he had a piece of paper taped to the corner of the mirror that said "biggest album of all time" and every day he would look in the mirror and say this album was going to be the biggest of all time.

I think it's safe to say he cares about commercial success. It's kind of naive to think he doesn't.
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You are comparing an ambitious man in his 20's, trying to break away from his brothers and be successful on his own, to a man in his 50's, having already experienced more commercial success than most can ever dream of, and having settled down with a family years ago. Why are you even bothering to compare the two situations?
 
people who cater to the media are failures..and the mass public consists largely of MJ fans who love him for being himself, musically. heal the world anthems, angry songs, and ballads are always good. furthermore, surprises are even better. always dwelling on the past (club bangers) is stagnant for musical health. other bands try to cater to the media, and helped decline the music industry a great deal. MJ is still thriving for being himself. and MJ has always had a fast song or two or three on his albums. so it's not like he stopped club bangers..although everybody is trying to club bang, and it's getting monotonous and boring and loud, and draining to the ears.(not MJ, since his stuff is fresh and different and good)
 
vncwilliam said:
people who cater to the media are failures..and the mass public consists largely of MJ fans who love him for being himself, musically. heal the world anthems, angry songs, and ballads are always good. furthermore, surprises are even better. always dwelling on the past (club bangers) is stagnant for musical health. other bands try to cater to the media, and helped decline the music industry a great deal. MJ is still thriving for being himself. and MJ has always had a fast song or two or three on his albums. so it's not like he stopped club bangers..although everybody is trying to club bang, and it's getting monotonous and boring and loud, and draining to the ears.(not MJ, since his stuff is fresh and different and good)
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I was hoping you'd come and inject some sense into this thread. :D rep given.
 
I don't know I don't really think sense was injected into the thread. I think people are desperate for other people to look at Mj the way they used to and it's blinding them to the conditions at hand. and MJ's family really has nothing to do with what we are discussing or whether or not he wants his album to be successful. And I don't think he waited untill 2009 to do something about his financial situation. I think he's been trying to fix it the whole time. That is why there has been so much financial managing. I think the reason for his waiting untill now to tour again is a combination of him being busy working on the album, timing, a good deal, preparation and so on. Plus if you look at MJ's career he tends to prefer to be all over the news with a huge spotlight on him for a while, then disappear from the limelight for a few years and then come back again. It happened between bad and dangerous and then it happened again between history and Invincible. I think he does that to keep himself fresh so people are less likely to get bored with him. I think this last time might have been to give people a little time to disassociate his music from the trial. to imply that he doesn't care about making money is outrageous. I mean seriously. He up to his fedora in debt. There is no freaking way he isn't hoping to bank. It's ridiculous to say "oh he doesn't care." Of course he cares. It's probably stressing the hell out of him.

The club banging comments are kind of weird as well. I don't doubt for a second that you guys are looking forward to his dance tracks A LOT and I mean a lot. Probably as much as I am. Who here isn't dying to hear another rock song on par with dirty diana or a dance song on par with smooth criminal? I mean seriously.

Any deep emotional songs should be simmilliar in feel and emotion to Who is it, or Stranger in Moscow. But most of the album needs to be feel good songs.
 
and we better get a dance video damn it! but I already know we will so I'm not worried about that at all.
 
LOL oh no I just immitate MJ's dancing. Not professionally or anything just for fun.
 
Dancemasterman, Michael has said countless times in the past that he feels, that as an artist, it's his RESPONSIBILITY to use his fame and his power to help other people. To create songs that increase awareness about some of the problems in the world. That is one of the reasons why I became a fan of Michael's. It's because the guy isn't selfish. He actually DOES things for other people. He is one of the few artists in the world who CARES.

If people get offended by songs about healing the world, and saving the children because they believe he abused kids, then you know what? that's their problem... There are millions of people dying and suffering, and if he knows he can do something about it by singing a song, or by giving to charity, then he's going to do it, REGARDLESS of what people think.

I really can't imagine Michael Jackson album out there with no slow songs. Speechless and Whatever happens are some of the best songs on Invincible, Stranger in Moscow and Earth Song are pure genius and Will you be there, in my opinion, is one of the best songs Michael's ever done in his career, PERIOD. Michael's talent really shines through in the slow songs, it would be a shame to see Michael release an album with only "club-bangers" because he wants to please the public. He's never cared about that before, and I don't think he cares about it now. He's one of the few artists still around that creates from the heart, not for commercial success.
 
dancemasterman said:
I think people are desperate for other people to look at Mj the way they used to and it's blinding them to the conditions at hand.
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If by people, you mean me, then you're wrong. I don't care how the general public see MJ. Their opinions have no effect whatsoever on me at the end of the day. I don't expect people to treat him the same as they did circa '84, obviously I don't, nobody does. What matters more to me is that, should MJ WANT to release a new album, he releases something he is creatively happy with, and he doesn't do it just to please a select group of people who only want a few new tracks to dance to.

dancemasterman said:
and MJ's family really has nothing to do with what we are discussing or whether or not he wants his album to be successful. I think the reason for his waiting untill now to tour again is a combination of him being busy working on the album, timing, a good deal, preparation and so on.
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He's a father. His family will have a lot to do with any decisions he makes, personal, professional or otherwise. I'm not denying that he would want any potential projects to be successful. I'm saying his mindset as a 20-something year old and his mindset as a 50-something year old father should not be compared so I don't know why you brought it up. He has more important priorities than selling records now. His children. That's the point I was trying to make. I don't think MJ can look back on all he's acheived and think, 'what have I been doing for the past few years? I haven't been selling enough records!' Besides, AEG approached Michael about the concerts, not the other way around. If he was planning at least one show before now, there's no reason for him not to have put a plan in motion himself. It makes no sense for him to just sit back and assume that eventually a concert promoter would approach him. Michael himself has said numerous times that the main reason for him agreeing to these shows is so that his children can have one last chance to see their dad doing his thing.

dancemasterman said:
Plus if you look at MJ's career he tends to prefer to be all over the news with a huge spotlight on him for a while, then disappear from the limelight for a few years and then come back again.
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What does this have to do with anything?

dancemasterman said:
I think this last time might have been to give people a little time to disassociate his music from the trial.
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Orrrrrr maybe he wanted to spend time with his family. When your freedom is on the line, you will not be planning your next big career move. Truth is there will never be a time when people won't connect MJ to that trial. It was huge news for 2 years, and the majority of the public seem to think he was guilty of those accusations. That sort of thing does not just go away after a few years of not releasing singles. He'll be living with those accusations for the rest of his life.

dancemasterman said:
to imply that he doesn't care about making money is outrageous. It's ridiculous to say "oh he doesn't care."
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I never implied or even outright said that he doesn't care or doesn't want to make money. You even saying that is what is ridiculous, imo. Like I've already said, I'm saying his outlook on his music career, commercial success and selling records will probably be miles apart when you compare him pre-Thriller to post-trial. Try reading that bold part a few more times to get the point already.

dancemasterman said:
Any deep emotional songs should be simmilliar in feel and emotion to Who is it, or Stranger in Moscow. But most of the album needs to be feel good songs.
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A potential future album doesn't 'need' to be anything you say. Michael should feel free to continue exploring his creativity in his field and put out an album he can be proud of. A real body of work, like he's known for. Not a disc of chart hits and filler like the people he's been working with. If he decides to release an album, and it doesn't stand up alongside his other works, then great. I can only assume he's happy with the end product if he's allowing it to be released.

dancemasterman said:
and we better get a dance video damn it! but I already know we will so I'm not worried about that at all.
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Then you either know something nobody else knows, or you're letting all the speculation go to your head.
 
why wud he have an album of just up beat songs? have u ever heard of variey? michael needs ballads just as much as mid temps and up temps
 
Another thing is, it's wrong to expect critics and the media would be won over by an album consisting of nothing but 'dance' songs. He would get panned for having no variety on the album, like michaelsson said.
 
StephluvsMJ said:
To create songs that increase awareness about some of the problems in the world.

If people get offended by songs about healing the world, and saving the children because they believe he abused kids, then you know what? that's their problem... .
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If it offends people rather than inspiring them then how is it going to create awareness?

.
I really can't imagine Michael Jackson album out there with no slow songs. Speechless and Whatever happens are some of the best songs on Invincible, .
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those are two of the worst songs on the album.
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Stranger in Moscow and Earth Song are pure genius and Will you be there, in my opinion, is one of the best songs Michael's ever done in his career, PERIOD. .
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I never said those weren't great songs, contrary I said the opposite. I wasn't debating whether those were good songs. I was debating whether or not it was wise for him to release songs like that today. although I mentioned a song simmiliar to stranger in moscow was fine. it's not that there can't be a slow song or two on the album. Every album has filler songs, so it wont really hurt the album even though it might not help it either. I'm saying he shouldn't release a song telling people how to live or how to fix the world, because most people think he's the last person who should be telling anybody how to live.

Hey I like these songs and you like these songs. I'm just saying that it's not in the best interest in terms of this album being a success.
 
Adore said:
Another thing is, it's wrong to expect critics and the media would be won over by an album consisting of nothing but 'dance' songs. He would get panned for having no variety on the album, like michaelsson said.
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Britney's second to last album was all clubbanger dance tracks and it was heavily praised by critics. I can't comment on her last album because I dont' know. they all admitted she had no vocal talent, but they said the beats were really good and it was a really solid album.

basically what I'm trying to say is that if Michael makes a song pointing his finger at the rest of the world for being wrong people are going to look at it the same way they would look at Chris Brown if he were to make a song about women's rights.

unless it was an apologetic song that is. for chris brown I mean. Not michael.
 
Haven't read all the posts on this thread, but i'm gonna go ahead and give my 2 cents.

I kinda see where you're coming from on this, but I can't fully agree with it. Others are right in saying that many of Michael's most successful songs have been his anthem like songs. "Will You Be There" is a perfect example of this. I know some people who know Michaels name by that song (or as they like to call it, the Free Willy song, lol) even more so than Billie Jean or Smooth Criminal. I could give other examples, but there's no need.

Another point: Has Michael ever cared to cater to the media on his albums? I kind of believe that to be false. We had no love ballad on Dangerous, and I know a lot of people were annoyed by that. Michael is famous for his crooning ballads, yet Dangerous stood above that completely.

Howabout another point: I def. find it hard now to not listen to a Michael Jackson album and not feel the need to hear an anthem to the children or the world or whomever. True, Thriller stood obviously well w/o an anthem (unless you count WBSS with its lyrics). But, man, after MITM in Bad....you just had to hear him create something like that again. And it's also what Michael is completely about. He's about helping others, especially the suffering children of the world. It's what's in his heart. And whatever's in his heart, he will write and compose into a song. I don't think a lot of people will think that this new album would even BE a Michael Jackson album without some sort of anthem on it. Whether it be slow or upbeat. As long as the lyrics are there.

Now of course this is an opinion, and I can't speak unbehalf of the MJ fan base (duh, lol) but I think I have made some clear points. Michael doesn't cater to the media when it comes to his craft. He loves creating these types of songs. And many fans love him for creating these songs. He can't be no one else but himself! (Just like that old guy told him to do in "The Way You Make Me Feel" Video, lol)
Yeah, there is a 50/50 chance that the album could do better w/o it, but ya also got that other half to look at as well. Can't ignore that!


Whew.....maybe more like $2. Sorry yall!








EDIT: Guess I should have also said this too. It all comes down to a matter of opinion. And there are a HELL of a lot of them on this board! Either way, I think there will be plenty of songs for everyone to enjoy. He always delivers.
 
did this person REALLY just say speechless and whatever happens are the worst songs on invincibole? *sontains anger* *whooo saaa*
 
dancemasterman said:
Britney's second to last album was all clubbanger dance tracks and it was heavily praised by critics. I can't comment on her last album because I dont' know. they all admitted she had no vocal talent, but they said the beats were really good and it was a really solid album.

basically what I'm trying to say is that if Michael makes a song pointing his finger at the rest of the world for being wrong people are going to look at it the same way they would look at Chris Brown if he were to make a song about women's rights.

unless it was an apologetic song that is. for chris brown I mean. Not michael.
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britney cant sing, no1 expects her to show off any vocal talent thru a ballad. and michael has never made a song pointing his finger @ people calling any1 wrong. And all the songs have a great message within them. I suggest u expand ur taste in music
 
dancemasterman said:
If it offends people rather than inspiring them then how is it going to create awareness?

.those are two of the worst songs on the album.
.I never said those weren't great songs, contrary I said the opposite. I wasn't debating whether those were good songs. I was debating whether or not it was wise for him to release songs like that today. although I mentioned a song simmiliar to stranger in moscow was fine. it's not that there can't be a slow song or two on the album. Every album has filler songs, so it wont really hurt the album even though it might not help it either. I'm saying he shouldn't release a song telling people how to live or how to fix the world, because most people think he's the last person who should be telling anybody how to live.

Hey I like these songs and you like these songs. I'm just saying that it's not in the best interest in terms of this album being a success.
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and who exactly are u 2say what determines his success? Hes been doing this for 40 yrs i think he knows what he needs for a successful album? Basically, michaels point of view>yours :coffee:
 
dancemasterman said:
Britney's second to last album was all clubbanger dance tracks and it was heavily praised by critics. I can't comment on her last album because I dont' know. they all admitted she had no vocal talent, but they said the beats were really good and it was a really solid album.

basically what I'm trying to say is that if Michael makes a song pointing his finger at the rest of the world for being wrong people are going to look at it the same way they would look at Chris Brown if he were to make a song about women's rights.

unless it was an apologetic song that is. for chris brown I mean. Not michael.
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There were a few mid-tempo tracks on that album. And just because it was a critical success for Britney, doesn't mean MJ should do it. He would get ridiculed for releasing an album not up to scratch when compared to his earlier iconic releases. He'd no longer be seen as a pioneer and a source of musical inspiration, but a sheep following the crowd and doing the same thing the people who try to imitate and emulate him do. Which would be an awful career move for a 'comeback' album and I don't know why you think it would be a good thing. And as you can see from this thread, most, if not all people so far disagree with only 100% upbeat songs. If it wouldn't please his fans, it definitely wouldn't be a critical success. And I'll go ahead and repeat it again, he obviously doesn't care about pleasing his critics or the media when it comes to his music, commercial success is not what he's about, it just comes with the job description when you're Michael Jackson. Do you honestly think he was obsessing over pleasing people and what the reviews would say when he wrote songs like Morphine, D.S., Little Susie, 2000 Watts, The Lost Children and I could go on...

michaelsson said:
did this person REALLY just say speechless and whatever happens are the worst songs on invincibole? *sontains anger* *whooo saaa*
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:lol: IKR, from what I've seen on MJJC those are probably the 2 most popular songs from 'vince with the fans alongside YRMW, Unbreakable & Butterflies :lol:
 
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