Have The Demos Been Tampered With ?

You people will never be happy with anything. I am so over Michael Jackson "fans".

I'm not criticising the demos (they're amazing), I'm saying the restoration wasn't as good as it good have been. Just because I don't adore every aspect of a new project doesn't mean I'm not a fan. Anyways can't wait for the promotion the Estate have got planned. Exciting times ahead !
 
Has anyone mentioned the Seth Riggs vocal warm up snippet being used at the start of Slave To The Rhythm? How could they not think we would notice that....? They really do underestimate us.
 
Has anyone mentioned the Seth Riggs vocal warm up snippet being used at the start of Slave To The Rhythm? How could they not think we would notice that....? They really do underestimate us.
I don't think they did that, maybe you are mistaking Birchey's verison?
 
Has anyone mentioned the Seth Riggs vocal warm up snippet being used at the start of Slave To The Rhythm? How could they not think we would notice that....? They really do underestimate us.

It's not the same vocal warm up. It sounds similar but it's not the exactly same, therefore not sampled from the Seth Riggs vocal warm up leak we know of.

The aaaahhh in the sttr intro is a genuine part of that demo/og version. He does it similarly during the bridge of the Hollywood tonight demo too.
 
It sounds similar but it's not the exactly same, therefore not sampled from the Seth Riggs vocal warm up leak we know of.

So it's not from that because you don't think it sounds exactly the same? How do you even know which specific part of the vocal warm ups I'm even talking about to say it's not exactly the same? :S It's 25 minutes long.....

I'm pretty convinced it was taken from that, if not then I apologise. I'll try and find the bit I think it is to compare.
 
You people will never be happy with anything. I am so over Michael Jackson "fans".

"OH NO!! THEY'RE "CRITICIZING" THE ALBUM AGAIN BY NOT SPEAKING 100% POSITIVITY TOWARD EVERYTHING ON IT!! THESE FAKE FANS."

Child please.
Comment like the above are not productive and don't lend anything to the discussion. Its just a way to insult and attack each other rather than discuss the topic. Try to stay away from doing that and just state your opinions about the songs rather than insult or attack each other for having a different "Opinion" if you disagree then attack the argument. No reason to speculate about anyones agenda. Find fault in the arguments presented, not the person.. not each other. Sure it can get frustrating when others don't agree with you, but that goes for both sides. The best arguments are presented without personal insults.
 
I don't believe that the demo songs on the album are tampered with. I still haven't seen any evidence or proof to show that, Just speculation on the part of some fans.
 
BG and APWNN have both been tampered with. They shortened a part in both of the songs. Before the bridge in APWNN and the "aaaaah" part in BG. You don't need proof to hear this, just listen to the demo leaks we have.

And if SWLM has not been tampered with, it has def. NOT been remastered in any sort of way. The hi hats are simply WAY too loud for the song and the vocals are too low, including the background vocals.

STTR demo have also been shortened, obviously.
 
BG and APWNN have both been tampered with. They shortened a part in both of the songs. Before the bridge in APWNN and the "aaaaah" part in BG. You don't need proof to hear this, just listen to the demo leaks we have.

And if SWLM has not been tampered with, it has def. NOT been remastered in any sort of way. The hi hats are simply WAY too loud for the song and the vocals are too low, including the background vocals.

STTR demo have also been shortened, obviously.

I think APWNN leaked mix is from 2008. So maybe they released the one from 1998 and changed nothing?
 
I think APWNN leaked mix is from 2008. So maybe they released the one from 1998 and changed nothing?
This does not make sense. Listen to the differences. That would mean they added or looped that guitar riff part for the 2008 mix? Removing it to make it shorter is more logical. Not adding that loop after Mj sings "yeah, doggone, ooh". They removed it, just like they removed the "maaa aaaahaaaaa" part in BG.
 
As for Chicago being Mono and low, you don't truly know the circumstances between that track. Don't judge.

Do you? If so please enlighten us? Because right now, we know it was recorded in stereo, we know they at least have instrumental and vocals seperate, we also know Corey was involved to a degree on Xscape and we know he made a 2010 mix. But any other info on the song is welcome.
 
There are several things that should be pointed out from the demos from the album and the leaks, such as the different mix of the songs from when the last time MJ heard it and to the producer's mix after the culmination of the songs (e.g. 2002 Xscape Mix). So for instance, in the leaked Blue Gangsta mix (seemingly from 2010, but not really), they changed the ad-lib "You ain't no friend of mine!" to "what you gonna do?!". Also you might not really not the difference between the Xscape (original version) compared to the previously leaked mix we've had for years now and you might have thought that Sony had drained the vibe out of it to make the contemporized version sound better as some fans have claimed. But if you listen closely after interlude, you'll hear that the Xscape (original version) has clicking sounds compared to the 2002 leaked mix which has the "tahh!" MJ signature which replaced the clicking sounds. Same thing goes with the Blue Gangsta (orig. version) which has the clicking sounds while the leaked version doesn't include that particular sound and the sound seems to be stronger but that's because of some instruments added and/or mixed such as heavy beat, heavy synths, and etc. Based on technicality, Sony did not tamper the demos. Theoretically, they could've as they tried to fit all 17 songs in one CD. But in my opinion, I think that they left everything as it was unedited so the fans could get the actual mix as they were left by MJ. Maybe I'm wrong but this is how I view the original versions situation
 
But if you listen closely after interlude, you'll hear that the Xscape (original version) has clicking sounds compared to the 2002 leaked mix which has the "tahh!" MJ signature which replaced the clicking sounds.

So am I reading this right? You're saying the leaked 2002 version has elements which replaced the version on Xscape, meaning its a newer mix.............yet saying the version on Xscape is more recent and how MJ left it?
 
So am I reading this right? You're saying the leaked 2002 version has elements which replaced the version on Xscape, meaning its a newer mix.............yet saying the version on Xscape is more recent and how MJ left it?

No I'm implying that we actually got the original mix and how Sony didn't suck the vibe out of them
 
I'm trying to figure out why the complaints about the demos. It is OBVIOUUS that the demos are not the ones that were LEAKED. I say GOOD. Why would they release the EXACT same demos that MOST fans ALREADY have. You have fans bitching about them even releasing demos at all. Of course, you also have some who would find some way to complain about ANYTHING. I swear some MJ fans are getting to be as bad as Prince fans. They complain about everything Prince does. No one is saying to be 100% positive; however, some of the complaints are ridiculous and SOME are just finding a way to inject negativity into a VERY POSITIVE project.
LA Reid and The Estate have done an OUTSTANDING job with the selection of songs-having the demos AND the new versions is like having two albums in one. You can tell that this project was done with a lot of love, respsect and care. I surely hope that their are not those fans who will allow OTHER'S negativity sway them
from finding joy in the music on this album. THIS time The Estate tried to do everything to please the fans and you still have the whining, bitching and/or complaining. I wouldn't blame them if they decided not to promote this album any further, or not release any more music. However, I sure hope they realize the MAJORITY of fans appreciate the new album and their wonderful job in the selection of songs, promotion and care that has been put into this album.
 
And I'm so over fans who pounce on every post that is not 100% in line with their opinion. If it wasn't so annoying I'd laugh at the irony of them complaining about other fans "whining" when they are the ones repeating the same old tired complaint like a mantra every single time, and of them saying other fans create a negative atmosphere whilst at the same time using words like "bitching" towards other members.
 
And I'm so over fans who pounce on every post that is not 100% in line with their opinion. If it wasn't so annoying I'd laugh at the irony of them complaining about other fans "whining" when they are the ones repeating the same old tired complaint like a mantra every single time, and of them saying other fans create a negative atmosphere whilst at the same time using words like "bitching" towards other members.

I feel you.
 
Comment like the above are not productive and don't lend anything to the discussion. Its just a way to insult and attack each other rather than discuss the topic. Try to stay away from doing that and just state your opinions about the songs rather than insult or attack each other for having a different "Opinion" if you disagree then attack the argument. No reason to speculate about anyones agenda. Find fault in the arguments presented, not the person.. not each other. Sure it can get frustrating when others don't agree with you, but that goes for both sides. The best arguments are presented without personal insults.

I did address the argument and not the individual. The individual addressed us though, by implying the "Fake fan" thing, simply because we don't agree with whatever The Estate did or didn't do to Michael's original demoes.

Other than the "Child please" comment, none of that post addressed that person personally, as opposed to the statement they made. But whatevezz.


On topic though, the STTR "original" demo does have the Seth Riggs vocal at the beginning. And they sound 100% similar, to me. So that might be it. Not saying this as a fact, just saying it's what I believe after hearing the two one after the other.

Someone should make a comparison clip. Like the old days with the Cascio Vs. Michael stuff.
 
I did address the argument and not the individual. The individual addressed us though, by implying the "Fake fan" thing, simply because we don't agree with whatever The Estate did or didn't do to Michael's original demoes.

Other than the "Child please" comment, none of that post addressed that person personally, as opposed to the statement they made. But whatevezz.


On topic though, the STTR "original" demo does have the Seth Riggs vocal at the beginning. And they sound 100% similar, to me. So that might be it. Not saying this as a fact, just saying it's what I believe after hearing the two one after the other.

Someone should make a comparison clip. Like the old days with the Cascio Vs. Michael stuff.
I can if you point out which part of Seth Riggs it's from, because there are hundreds of those "aaaaaa".

I think it's from the recording or maybe from a warm up session before MJ did the vocals for it. He always did this.

Again, are you sure you are not mixing it with Birchey's mix:

[youtube]SQQXBZvk4rM[/youtube]
 
Nah, I'm talking about the second one in that video, that "AAAAHH!!" sounds like the same one from the Seth Riggs sessions. And yeah, I'll try to find the video.
 
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It's not, MJ doesn't use that high thin "careful" voice in the Seth Riggs tape, he uses way more power, more and stronger vibrato. You can also tell sound quality wise that it's not from the tape
 
I'm trying to figure out why the complaints about the demos. It is OBVIOUUS that the demos are not the ones that were LEAKED. I say GOOD. Why would they release the EXACT same demos that MOST fans ALREADY have. You have fans bitching about them even releasing demos at all. Of course, you also have some who would find some way to complain about ANYTHING. I swear some MJ fans are getting to be as bad as Prince fans. They complain about everything Prince does. No one is saying to be 100% positive; however, some of the complaints are ridiculous and SOME are just finding a way to inject negativity into a VERY POSITIVE project.
LA Reid and The Estate have done an OUTSTANDING job with the selection of songs-having the demos AND the new versions is like having two albums in one. You can tell that this project was done with a lot of love, respsect and care. I surely hope that their are not those fans who will allow OTHER'S negativity sway them
from finding joy in the music on this album. THIS time The Estate tried to do everything to please the fans and you still have the whining, bitching and/or complaining. I wouldn't blame them if they decided not to promote this album any further, or not release any more music. However, I sure hope they realize the MAJORITY of fans appreciate the new album and their wonderful job in the selection of songs, promotion and care that has been put into this album.

I agree 100%. You know the estate don't need to do anything ever again. They have enough money to keep the children rich for the rest of their lives and give plenty to his charities. They can sell the ATV catalog and that would be it. No more Michael Jackson- zero, zilch. I would not blame them really. Instead of being grateful some of you constantly pick apart everything. This time theyl listened to us and they have done a PHENOMENAL job!

But I am grateful that the MAJORITY of the fans love and appreciate this project. I guess there will always be ppl that have to nitpick; (human nature I suppose) at every little thing and worse of all speculate which is very dangerous. We are certainly not privy to every multitrack or every demo Michael ever did in the vault. The only ones that have access are the State/Sony. So really it is much speculation on some fans' part.

Look I am not saying we have to love every little thing about this project, (even though I do),we all have different tastes and opinions but it is becoming very clear, at least to me, that the same ppl who are clearly not very happy with this project tend to insert their negative views every chance they can. It's like they come out of the woodwork- lol You don't hear from them that much and all of a sudden when there a chance to have their view heard boom!

Anyway, I guess that's human nature. The majority of us will keep enjoying this wonderful project, and to the rest of you the best. :D
 
I'm not criticising the demos (they're amazing), I'm saying the restoration wasn't as good as it good have been. Just because I don't adore every aspect of a new project doesn't mean I'm not a fan. Anyways can't wait for the promotion the Estate have got planned. Exciting times ahead !

I appreciate that Smooth. I bet you didn't realize this would be like walking into a beehive. lol
 
I agree 100%. You know the estate don't need to do anything ever again. They have enough money to keep the children rich for the rest of their lives and give plenty to his charities. They can sell the ATV catalog and that would be it. No more Michael Jackson- zero, zilch. I would not blame them really. Instead of being grateful some of you constantly pick apart everything. This time theyl listened to us and they have done a PHENOMENAL job!

But I am grateful that the MAJORITY of the fans love and appreciate this project. I guess there will always be ppl that have to nitpick; (human nature I suppose) at every little thing and worse of all speculate which is very dangerous. We are certainly not privy to every multitrack or every demo Michael ever did in the vault. The only ones that have access are the State/Sony. So really it is much speculation on some fans' part.

Look I am not saying we have to love every little thing about this project, (even though I do),we all have different tastes and opinions but it is becoming very clear, at least to me, that the same ppl who are clearly not very happy with this project tend to insert their negative views every chance they can. It's like they come out of the woodwork- lol You don't hear from them that much and all of a sudden when there a chance to have their view heard boom!

Anyway, I guess that's human nature. The majority of us will keep enjoying this wonderful project, and to the rest of you the best. :D


Except NONE of that post that you quoted, actually has anything to do with what's being said in this thread. Once again, people are reading the not 100% positive comments about specific songs on the album, and are purposefully misconstruing what's being said to paint the false image of all of us being "fake fans" and "Estate haters"..

Who said in this thread that they expected the same leaked demoes on this album? Who, where? Tell me, I'll wait....

What's actually being said is that the demoes weren't mixed properly for an 2014 album release and that some of them, may not even be the original versions at all, and some people tend to think the Estate did it on purpose, to enhance they're "contemporized" versions of Michael's songs. I don't necessarily think that's the case, but fact of the matter is, some of the "original" demos, are mixed shitty, that's just the fact of it, Do I know for sure if they aren't the original versions? Nope, but I do know STTR is missing ad-libs. I do know Blue Gangsta is slightly different from the leaked version, and some have argued for the worse. Nobody at anypoint stated that they expected the already leaked songs to be on this album, we're just wondering why they weren't mixed to the same extent as the 8 songs before the "Original" versions, and why some sound like they were deliberately tampered with made to sound in a worse condition than they were when Michael actually recorded them. That's what's being said.


And again, myself, and countless others in this thread have voiced their admiration for the album before the whole "VMJ" crap, and continue to do so. The "same people" you're attempting to refer to (possibly me, Birchey, and a couple others), the same ones who were realistically critiquing "VMJ" and for good reason aren't nitpicking, and we aren't trying to "insert our negative views every chance we can", the fact that people seem to think this about us is ludicrous, considering, if you actually go back and read post before the "VMJ" stunt, we voiced our appreciation for the album, and we were also allowed to speak on the songs we didn't like without having to hear these dumb accusations. But now, when everybody clearly isn't falling into the Estate's plan of whoring Michael's image on whatever they can, now all of a sudden, we're "haters", "fake fans", "negative nancies", whatever else you'd like to think of to address us as simply because we voice concern in regards to some of the moves made by the Estate recently.

This is a message board, we're allowed to realistically critique, question, and criticize something that we don't feel is up to par with Michael's standards. It's that simple, nothing is negative about that. It's only negative to you because a lot of you seem to have this new found dislike, of realistic fans.

I love the album, I just hate how some of the "original demos" sound, and from what we hear from others who knew about these things before us, some of those "original demos" didn't sound that bad prior to being put on this album. How on earth is that negative? It's just a realistic viewpoint that differs from yours, simple as that.
 
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