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Have The Demos Been Tampered With ?

SmoothCriminal1995

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The more I listen to the demos (or original's)on the album the more I think the demos have ever been tampered with. By tampered I mean that they (the producers/Estate) have not restored or remastered them as much as they could have,on purpose so that the new versions sound better.

I think this most when I listen to, Loving You, Chicago and APWNN mainly. Loving You, obvious warp on the tape, Chicago the vocals are so low, and APWNN they've cut some parts of the song. And on the whole I feel that the demos could have been presented better, look at the BAD 25 demos, a lot more care was taken there, look at Song Groove, that song was on two different tapes.

I still love the album, and I'm still very grateful for the demos. What do you guys think ?
 
also on STTR, I think they shortened it at the end (earlier fade out)
 
Don't know if it's true, but i have the feeling that they shortened the intro of DYKWYCA.
Don't know why i think so, but it sounds so.

Chicago - You already mentioned it, vocals are wayyyy to low.

APWNN - Version is shortened.

Blue Gangsta - sounds kinda dry, the leaked version has an better 'vibe'.

Xscape - Don't believe that Mike left the song that way, compared to the leaked version, the pace is slower,
i think also, some instruments are muted.
 
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JEMFTV said:
Don't know if it's true, but i have the feeling that they shortened the intro of DYKWYCA.
Don't know why i think so, but it sounds so.
Plus, like i've already said: i believe that they wanna make the demos look bad:

Chicago - You already mentioned it, vocals are wayyyy to low.

Loving You - Warp on the tape,
i think hiss is audible too.

APWNN - Version is shortened.

Blue Gangsta - sounds kinda dry, the leaked version has an better 'vibe'.

Xscape - Don't believe that Mike left the song that way, compared to the leaked version, the pace is slower,
i think also, some instruments are muted.
Click to expand...

Doesn't Blue Gangster sound different because it's the 98/99 version and the leaked is the 2010 version?
 
Dilan said:
Doesn't Blue Gangster sound different because it's the 98/99 version and the leaked is the 2010 version?
Click to expand...

The only thing i know, is that Dr.Freeze stated that Blue Gangsta will be release with
"finalized instrumentation".

Edit: Was it also re-mixed for MICHAEL?
If so, i didn't know that.
 
You're probably looking into it all a little too much. The tracks are old, unfinished and were probably just sat around on tape, DAT or Hard Drive left gathering dust.

The tracks were probably added as is to give us, the fans, the opportunity to see what they started out as and eventually became in their 'finished' form on Xscape.
 
I hope it's not true, but I don't think they've done the best they can in restoring the demos.
 
DanGerouS- said:
also on STTR, I think they shortened it at the end (earlier fade out)
Click to expand...

How would we know the ending to the original is shortened? We've never ever even heard the original before it was released on the deluxe edition. All we have to go on is the Tricky Version, the 2014 version and MJ's version.
 
They may have spent less time on them as much as they had mastering/mixing the new versions.

In some cases (like the old tape warble at the start of LOVING YOU) it's kind of charming and sounds more like stumbling on a lost treasure.

But in cases like Xscape, it sounds a little flat and could use a little more OOMPH. Or something. Can't explain it.

Also, the non JT mix of LNFSG is almost unlistenable because of the way it was mixed/mastered (his vocal), whereas the JT mix sounds so much better.


I have the same theory that they intentionally made The Way You Make Me Feel and the Yokohama footage on the Wembley DVD worse/on par with the main feature.
You know how weird it would look when the extra songs look tons better than the main feature?
They totally dumbed down the picture quality.
 
SmoothCriminal1995 said:
The more I listen to the demos (or original's)on the album the more I think the demos have ever been tampered with. By tampered I mean that they (the producers/Estate) have not restored or remastered them as much as they could have,on purpose so that the new versions sound better.

I think this most when I listen to, Loving You, Chicago and APWNN mainly. Loving You, obvious warp on the tape, Chicago the vocals are so low, and APWNN they've cut some parts of the song. And on the whole I feel that the demos could have been presented better, look at the BAD 25 demos, a lot more care was taken there, look at Song Groove, that song was on two different tapes.

I still love the album, and I'm still very grateful for the demos. What do you guys think ?
Click to expand...

Ah no - let's not start speculating. These are old songs the way MJ left them, that's it. Enjoy the album. :D
 
STTR is definitely either shorter, or perhaps they used a different version with different vocals. Tricky's mix has Michael doing his ad-libs through the end of the song, like his screams, he goes "Hol' on" and "Oh my" a couple of times at the end of the song and another of that same rough line, " somethin' somethin', do it baby!", none of which is present on either the album version or the "original" demo. Which probably means it can be from a different take.
 
They didn't use any versions mixed after MJs death because those would have also been altered versions. just as the new ones are. They didn't tamper with the original versions released. They are just not the same as the leaked versions we heard that were produced after 2009. They are versions Michael last worked on.
 
The point of it was to leave them untouched. My uncle prefers all the demos over the new versions, yet i prefer the new versions. So IMO we're all hearing something different on this record
 
Of course they did, we pretty much got shafted as the Demos seemed to be added less for the fans and more to make the new mixes sounds more superior. Chicago is fricken mono FFS, wasn't recorded like that, people have guessed most of whats been done with the rest, but the mastering is subpar too, considering they had multi's for most the songs, no excuse.
 
APWNN leak is longer because the end is looped. The shorter version is the first version Michael worked on.

The loving You warp is possible in natural settings, or MJ could have liked the warp an it was his own creation.

As for Chicago being Mono and low, you don't truly know the circumstances between that track. Don't judge.
 
Okay I invite everyone to Xscape with the greatest artist that ever lived. Keep enjoying this wonderful album:chillin:
 
Dilan said:
Doesn't Blue Gangster sound different because it's the 98/99 version and the leaked is the 2010 version?
Click to expand...

JEMFTV said:
The only thing i know, is that Dr.Freeze stated that Blue Gangsta will be release with
"finalized instrumentation".

Edit: Was it also re-mixed for MICHAEL?
If so, i didn't know that.
Click to expand...

Well they said that they would be releasing the latest versions Michael worked on

This is from 2007. I really believe that the 2010 version wasn't re-mixed for Michael at all. just as LNFSG wasn't remixed for the Michael album either.

[youtube]8XQJTsRuVRQ[/youtube]
 
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BTW, what does "warp" actually mean? :blush:, i only know that the intro of Lovin' You sounds weird.
 
The cuts in APWNN were unnecessary, the song sounded better in full and im sure the extra 8-10 seconds would have not surpassed the CD's time limit. Knowing this, the demo or demos DID go into editing but seems like they were working on the less important things. I agree that the hiss and vocal levels were the biggest issues with the tracks but that wont keep me from still enjoying it!
 
JEMFTV said:
BTW, what does "warp" actually mean? :blush:, i only know that the intro of Lovin' You sounds weird.
Click to expand...

Sometimes, old tapes (vinyl, too) can get warped for whatever reason and can alter the sound.
The tape(s) for Loving You must have been a bit degraded over time. It's only the keyboard part in the beginning, really.
 
STTR demo is definitely shorter. The tricky mix contains more ad-libs so it suggests those ad-libs are present on the master, So if they're present on the master wouldn't they include them on the demo (at the point it begins to fade out?), after all, if Michael sung them (and they appeared in tricky's mix), they would have been the "last" versions he worked on.

I just wish Timbo's mix was a little longer. It's really annoying the way it ends abruptly.

Alos, isn't there more adlibs in timbo's mix of Loving you? But they aren't there on the demo.
 
MJRemixed said:
Also, isn't there more adlibs in timbo's mix of Loving you? But they aren't there on the demo.
Click to expand...

I think he re-used some adlibs.
Because the new version is a little bit longer than the original.
 
Billyjeanplxiv said:
APWNN leak is longer because the end is looped. The shorter version is the first version Michael worked on.

The loving You warp is possible in natural settings, or MJ could have liked the warp an it was his own creation.

As for Chicago being Mono and low, you don't truly know the circumstances between that track. Don't judge.
Click to expand...


Anyone with ears and who is remotely educated in musical production, can hear that Chicago was recorded in Mono and never changed or altered to fit with a modern release. And as a result, Michael's vocals are low when placed against his own accompanying vocal during the chorus and other parts of the song. What do you mean, don't judge? His vocals are too low, that's not a judgement really, but moreso a fact.
 
You people will never be happy with anything. I am so over Michael Jackson "fans".
 
While they may have had multi tracks, maybe there was a "final" mix for each demo/early recording already made, and that's what they used (rather than restoring/remixing them).

And no, the tape warble was definitely a result of the tape, not something MJ put on there.
 
mijacxscape said:
You people will never be happy with anything. I am so over Michael Jackson "fans".
Click to expand...

God forbid we speculate on if what we got was really "original" or not. I'm fine with the demos on the album, but if there are some other versions of them out there I'd like to hear those as well.
 
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