Four Years Left for Global Warming Action!

I'm with MJ: We need to slow global warming!

  • No way, I like global warming!

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No way, I don't believe in global warming!

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No way, I believe in global warming, but not that humans played a big role.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    13
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But I think this is changing? There's so much to digest... I understand that you've encountered some key new pieces to the puzzle here... So I'm hoping you're easing into this new awareness of MJ's goals?

That Ebony interview was pretty powerful, was it not? ( I was so in love after that interview. Not sure if the words or pictures did it more for me...:wub: )



lol... only the entire premise of my thread! :) Which is that global warming is a major part of MJ's message in This Is It, and is what he was referring to in his "4-year" statement.

But perhaps you're being persuaded a bit with this news? Hope so.



Amen, sister.
There's lots of work to do...


I was not aware of that particular interview. I understand now why you think this is what Michael meant by 4 years although I could not access the full interview and still didn't see him say 4 years. Although I did hear that on tii, he said we had 4 years to heal our sick planet.

I am aware of many other speeches by Michael ,where Michael was clear about healing the world, global unity ,ending of war and healing our kids, that is why he wrote songs like heal the world as well as earth song, which is also about lives lost from war as well as the plight of the earth.

The news makes no difference to me I already accept the planet is sick as Michael said, and already live in harmony with the earth as far as I can, nothing anyone will say or politicians or different opinions makes any difference to that.

My actions come from love for the earth.
 
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I quote your original post above.

Michael's message though is not just about global warming he had made other message's about healing our world through our kids and his messages on ending war, that is also what I hope people will also be aware of these too, it is all important and connected.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6v9gkQqxBHY&feature=PlayList&p=FE6BE2DB4574D32E&index=0&playnext=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzIQlVSH8GU&feature=related


You are right- its all connected. Its about creating another mindset, another way of thinking and living. Its difficult- and exciting! Its a challenge and something to enjoy. What i truly think is, that we have been given this life- and we can make it a good one, a valuable one. We have the opportunity to use our brains, our skills, our knowledge and create something different. We can be inspired by Michael- and start thinking outside the box.
I use my knowledge and my conscious in my work, and it feels good, because it makes it more valuable to me. It makes what I do matter, instead of just making "stuff".
 
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You are right- its all connected. Its about creating another mindset, another way of thinking and living. Its difficult- and exciting! Its a challenge and something to enjoy. What i truly think is, that we have been given this life- and we can make it a good one, a valuable one. We have the opportunity to use our brainsm, our skills, our knowledgeand create something different. We can be inspired by Michael- and start thinking outside the box.
I use my knowledge and my conscious in my work, and it feels good, because it makes it more valuable to me. It makes what I do matter, instead of just making "stuff".

I agree. We can create the world we wish to live in, by being the change we wish to see
 
Michael's message though is not just about global warming
Correct. This thread, however, is...

...he had made other message's about healing our world through our kids and his messages on ending war, that is also what I hope people will also be aware of these too, it is all important and connected.
It's definitely all connected. But it's physically impossible to discuss everything in the world simultaneously -- our heads would explode. There are other threads on his other initiatives -- I know you already have at least one. This is my first. I hope to see more.


I am also working very hard on this grave issue Bo G why do you say you hope I no longer attempt to discourage the many.
Perhaps because calling a grave issue a fraud is very discouraging? The context and my meaning (below) were crystal clear. This drained away energy from this thread:
Quote:Originally Posted by Gaiaschild
...I went to a 4 hour talk by scientist who was a government scientist and he said global warming was a fraud... Al Gore is a fraud ...

by Bo G
... I applaud your lifestyle. I only hope you decide to no longer attempt to discourage the many us of working to solve this grave problem.
Since then more information has come to light, which I think is moving us toward a truce... what say you? :shakehands ???
 
I could not access the full interview and still didn't see him say 4 years.

The link to the full interview was in the upper left corner. Please try again and let me know if it still doesn't work, so I can look into it -- thanks. Obviously, it's crucial to this thread. I've also copied it here:

Q&A: Michael Jackson, In His Own Words (scroll down for more pages)

I didn't say the four-year reference was in the Ebony interview. It's in other links. Michael has not released a single precise opinion document to accompany This Is It. Perhaps he was going to make a clearer statement with the show. But the show didn't happen. And we're left having to work like forensic scientists, piecing together what we do know from different sources. And we know quite a lot. I've actually worked pretty damn hard to find and assemble all these the pieces together, which does not seem to have been done yet in other MJ sites yet. Gotta say I'm pretty disappointed at the response overall.

The news makes no difference to me ...nothing anyone will say or politicians or different opinions makes any difference...
Wish you'd said this up front... would have saved some energy on my part... sigh.
 
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This pic from TII is how I like to imagine MJ on the O2 stage, speaking intimately with the audience between numbers about his message. He makes a rather attractive professor, doesn't he? :cheeky:

MJ63.jpg
 
Correct. This thread, however, is...

It's definitely all connected. But it's physically impossible to discuss everything in the world simultaneously -- our heads would explode. There are other threads on his other initiatives -- I know you already have at least one. This is my first. I hope to see more.


Perhaps because calling a grave issue a fraud is very discouraging? The context and my meaning (below) were crystal clear. This drained away energy from this thread:​
Since then more information has come to light, which I think is moving us toward a truce... what say you? :shakehands ???


It isn't me that says Global Warming is a fraud, it is 30 000 scientists who are suing Al Gore who say so.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfHW7KR33IQ



I agree with you that Michael was concerned about Global warming/climate change.

But Michael's primary message was not about Global Warming/climate change. it has always been about love and living in harmony with the planet and love and unity across the globe

Climate change is natural phenomena and has occured in the past. There have been severe climate changes in the billions of years of earths existence. It is not rocket science to know that Global warming is caused by sun spot activity which is natural phenomena.

The man made part of global warming/climate change is done by people whose intent is evil. further research will show you that many problems are caused by a complete lack of ethics and regard for ecological balance, and by global companies do not care about what destruction they cause in pursuit of profit.

I suggest you go away and do some more research then you will understand better where I am coming from. What you will learn from studying any subject in depth that what seems to be certain is not certain at all.

I applaud you taking actions to help the earth, I hope you will continue and there is much good that can stll be done by looking at ways in which we can reduce climate change, reduce pollution, and consumption, and help the earth.
 
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The link to the full interview was in the upper left corner. Please try again and let me know if it still doesn't work, so I can look into it -- thanks. Obviously, it's crucial to this thread. I've also copied it here:

Q&A: Michael Jackson, In His Own Words (scroll down for more pages)

I didn't say the four-year reference was in the Ebony interview. It's in other links. Michael has not released a single precise opinion document to accompany This Is It. Perhaps he was going to make a clearer statement with the show. But the show didn't happen. And we're left having to work like forensic scientists, piecing together what we do know from different sources. And we know quite a lot. I've actually worked pretty damn hard to find and assemble all these the pieces together, which does not seem to have been done yet in other MJ sites yet. Gotta say I'm pretty disappointed at the response overall.


Wish you'd said this up front... would have saved some energy on my part... sigh.

I am not able to scroll down for full interview, however I agree that global warming/ climate change was one of the things that concerned Michael.

You misunderstood where I was coming from. I did say upfront all along that global warming/climate change, whether it is man made or not (and I've come to conclude that it is both)made no difference as my actions for the earth come from my heart and my love and connection for the earth.

Don' t be disappointed, I think it is wonderful that Michaels message has made people want to help the earth, it does not matter what people do it is all progress in the right direction, every little we do adds up eventually, there is so much more we can do.
 
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I'm embarrassed to be a part of this community.

This has been very disturbing..

I regret the energy I wasted vainly attempting to educate MJ fans about this message from Michael Jackson. It has served to draw more negative energy to his message than positive. You may now return to conspiracy theories where you enthusiastically trash innocent people, which appears to be the most popular pastime here. Sorry to interrupt.

To those who contributed positively or took away something helpful from this, I extend my appreciation.
 
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I'm embarrassed to be a part of this community.

This has been very disturbing..

I regret the energy I wasted vainly attempting to educate MJ fans about this message from Michael Jackson. It has served to draw more negative energy to his message than positive. You may now return to conspiracy theories where you enthusiastically trash innocent people, which appears to be the most popular pastime here. Sorry to interrupt.

To those who contributed positively or took away something helpful from this, I extend my appreciation.

Don`t be disapointed- and do not give up. If people continue to give up just because other people do not see what you see, or understand what you understand- then progress would never be made. I urge people to stop "splitting hair" ( if that is a good expression-English is not my first language....).
I think Michaels message is pretty clear,and loud. And his opinions on this seem to be from his soul, and from seeing nature and the earth as something sacred, and also that this earth is what we give to our children.
We are human, and there is a bad side to human nature. And its not just about being "evil" or intentionally hurting others. Its also about peoples need to be important, to be right, to have the last word. I some times wish that we collectively could learn just to keep our mouths shut, and listen- just once in a while. Because; is being "right" more important then letting others feel good about themself? It is possible to let our ego go, and stand aside, just to let the converstation continue and be a open one.

For me; the discussion on wether global warming is scientifically proven or not the equivalent of people standing in front of a burning house, wasting their time discussing what technique is the best one for putting out the fire. People being what they are, the discussion would continue long after the house is burnt down.

We are not scientists. We shape our opinions not on what is scientifically "proven", but based on our preconcieved understanding of the world, our past experiences, who we respect, our educational level, and whatever our personal belief system is.
The first mistake everyone seem to do in this discussion, is to claim that science is "truth". Science is, as all human professions based on our human understanding of things. When science claim something to be proven, they say that as far as the results show and as far as our understanding and interpretation of the facts gathered this is our conclusion- at this point in time. Time, and further research will prove them right or not.
We, on the other hand- can only use our common sense (whatever that is).

It is an indeniable fact that our current production, economic and social systems are in trouble. We are exploiting the natural resources at a rate never seen before in history. We are more people living on this planet then ever before.

We have aproxamately:

218 million child workers
300 000 children are used as soldiers
150 million children live on the street
1 billion children live in poverty
121 milllion children get no education.

Each and every one of this numbers represent an individual.

And if the majority of scientists that believe in global warming, and that human activity is responsible for a lot of this,- if they are right- its the most vulnerable that will suffer the most, and its the people living under the toughest conditions today that will suffer the most.
And those are children.

Wether the threath of global warming is man made, if its scientifically correct- who are we to decide that we take the risk?
Because this is not about us, really. This is about what our legacy will be.
And its the children of this world that , as they grow up, must live with our decisions.
I think we must stop this need less discussions, and start to do something instead. Actionos will always speak louder then words.
 
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Well, :) I'm hardly giving up my career as an environmental advocate and scientist just because, of all the many over many years I've educated, I've encountered my first hostile audience. I'm only giving up with that particular audience -- fans of Michael Jackson.

It's disappointing because I myself am an MJ fan. I was stunned and amazed when I learned this had become his primary global concern, and that this was a key message of TII. What a brilliant way to leave a focused legacy! With MJ fans inspired and united on this message, we'll take a MASSIVE leap forward...

I repeatedly asked mods to elevate this thread to the News forum, as it obviously deserves a little more attention than the makeup artist's latest Facebook post or whatever. But heard not a word. Yet I hear quickly from them when I PM on other subjects. So this lack of interest in MJ's message may be shared by the MJJC board.

Well, obviously this is not the proper forum for anyone with the time and resources to mount a serious global warming awareness campaign by enrolling MJ fans. I'm hoping those with resources and and are close to his family and colleagues are doing just that. Though it may be just too much like herding cats, I fear.

Clearly you and others here are concerned your own excellent agenda, which was shared by MJ, will be displaced by his concerns about global warming. But it's not an either-or proposition. We can't afford to think in such black/white terms. There are many of us, and we must work on many fronts.

It's great if you're work on children's welfare, social justice, and peace issues. Perhaps you're also including helping the world's children deal with the impacts of global warming. Cool.

But THIS this thread was about ACTION TO SLOW GLOBAL WARMING ITSELF. Please understand, this is a DIFFERENT AND BRAND NEW TOPIC at MJJC. Could it not have had one single thread to discuss this news about MJ and TII? There are many about these other topics.

It's disappointing that so many rushed in to hijack this thread for their own intentions, even though good ones.

Who are we to slow global warming, you ask? We made the mess... it is our responsibility to clean it up. We broke it, we should fix it. It's simple. And it will reduce suffering.

Most of all, I'm disappointed at the utterly stunning hostility to science here. This obviously wasn't shared by MJ.

Science is simply the tool created by humanity to organize its observations and ever-increasing store of knowledge. The scientific method is simple and brilliant, because it employs a common language and set of principles that TRANSCENDS cultural and personal preconceptions. It is constantly self-correcting in a way no other system has proven to be.

Science does not claim to be an ultimate truth ITSELF. It claims only to be BEST TOOL we've discovered, which produces the CLOSEST APPROXIMATION to truth we can have at any given time. It gets closer and closer all the time, but no, it will never "arrive." It is an approximation. But the fact that it will always be better tomorrow than it is today is no reason to ignore the lessons learned to date.

That's like saying that storm forecasts are never EXACTLY right, and are sometimes wrong, so why bother paying attention at all? Why? Because it's the best knowledge we have. Those who boat out into a predicted hurricane or fail to sandbag against a predicted flood are intentionally making themselves stupid... and perhaps dead. Storm forecasts are better now than they used to be, and will be better in the future than they are now, as the science gets better and better. But meanwhile, it's foolishness to dismiss it entirely.

Science makes mistakes, but it becomes progressively better. It makes no sense to say, "Well, science was wrong when it said Katrina would be a Class IV when it was only a Class III hurricane. So science is worthless."

It makes no sense to say "I'm not a scientist, I don't understand how storm forecasting is done, so I'm going to ignore their warnings. I'm going to study this caterpillar instead, which is just common sense..."

You don't need to be a scientist to listen to their warnings.

When science does observe a "fact," it says so. Science has observed how gravity works and tells us it is a fact... a truth. If you don't think it's a "truth," then step off a tall building. It's in elevators, on the space shuttle, in airplanes... even though common sense tells us otherwise. So common sense doesn't always work. As gravity proves, not all facts are this evident to those of us without data and instruments.

It used to be "common sense" that handicapped children were of the devil and should be killed. That old women who had property were witches. That the earth was flat. That the universe whirled around the earth... That women and blacks were less than human. That the plague could be solved by spells, not rodent control. The infectious theory of disease was only recently discovered by science. We need science.

Our fellow scientists are speaking to us again now. Are we listening?

"We shape our opinions not on what is scientifically "proven", but based on our preconcieved understanding of the world, our past experiences, who we respect, our educational level, and whatever our personal belief system is."
That's the old way. That's why we burnt witches, enslaved people of color...

Now we have a new way. It's called dedicating oneself to truth, wherever that leads you. Whether it contradicts something you believed in the past or not.

Action that is not based on truth is action that is either of less value or actually harmful. Those of us who believe in action should also feel obligated to dedicate ourselves to understanding what is true as best as possible.

We should also learn where to best direct our time and effort. For me, it will no longer be this site, but I'll still be working very hard on global warming and other issues. But the irony, that the worst reaction was with MJ FANS, is simply stunning...
 
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Nice thread here. We can plant a tree in memory of Michael's legacy. At least we can do something to replace trees crucial to the balance of the eco system as the rainforest continues to be destroyed. This has also reminded me to plant some trees myself.

http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=81526


As Michael fans we know how strongly Michael felt about the planet, its environment and its people and the MJJC Legacy Project have established a Michael Jackson Memorial Fund with the Nature Conservancy in support of the their Plant A Billion Trees project.


The Nature Conservancy, the leading conservation organisation, is committed to protecting ecologically important lands and waters. They address threats to conservation, including climate change, partnering with indigenous communities, businesses and governments.

Check them out at: http://www.nature.org or http://www.plantabillion.org/

Fans can choose to donate as little as $10 US for 10 trees. To donate you can visit their site (see above), or call them at 1-800-628-6860. Alternatively, you can post a cheque/postal order to:

Nature Conservancy
P O Box 6016
Albert Lea
Minnesota, 56007
U.S.A.

IMPORTANT: WHEN MAKING A DONATION, PLEASE BE SURE TO USE THIS REFERENCE NO. 1207 5587. THIS IS THE NUMBER SPECIFICALLY FOR THE MICHAEL JACKSON FUND.

The Nature Conversancy will keep a record of the number of trees are donated in Michael's honour and the Legacy team will be able to give a monthly update! But when you have donated, feel free to post here in the thread .
 
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OUTRAGEOUS NEWS ON GLOBAL WARMING

MJ Fans in the U.S.,

OUR elected Senators are now arguably the world's top OBSTACLE to slowing global warming. They are supposed to speak for American citizens, who polls show want ACTION, not MORE STALLING.

Have YOU let YOUR senators know yet what YOU expect of them? One easy way to do this is at the very wonderful League of Conservation Voters website. Just enter your zipcode and it will guide you to your senators and let you email them.

Contact Your Senator: We Need You to LEAD, not STALL, on Global Warming! This is IT!!!



New York Times
Obama Hobbled in Fight Against Global Warming

By JOHN M. BRODER
Published: November 15, 2009

WASHINGTON — President Obama came into office pledging to end eight years of American inaction on climate change under President George W. Bush, and all year he has promised that the United States would lead the way toward a global agreement in Copenhagen next month to address the warming planet.

[...]

American negotiators have been hamstrung in talks leading to the Copenhagen conference by inaction on legislation supported by the administration that would impose strict caps on carbon dioxide emissions. The House passed a relatively stringent bill in June, but the Senate is not expected to begin serious debate on the measure until next year.

Without a firm commitment from the United States — for decades the world’s leading emitter of climate-altering gases — other nations have been reluctant to deliver firmer pledges of their own.

[...]

Under the plan, the 192 nations convening in the Danish capital would formulate a nonbinding political agreement calling for reductions in global warming emissions and aid for developing nations to adapt to a changing climate. The group would also promise to work to put together a binding global pact in 2010, complete with firm emissions targets, enforcement mechanisms and specific dollar amounts to aid poorer nations.

[...]

Rajendra K. Pachauri, the chairman of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, said ...“It signifies an abandonment of moral responsibility that a position of leadership on the world stage clearly implies,” ..., adding that the scientific consensus on global warming demanded immediate action, not stalling tactics.
 
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I hope people go to this site and read the different scenarions presented.

http://www.futurescenarios.org/content/view/12/26/

Its interesting, and it may make it easier to start to think about what two factors that are going to affect our future may mean to you as an individual. I think the reality of the things that may effect our everyday life is a important way of getting this subjects to a level where people can relate to them personally. We have a tendency to take what we see right now for granted. But there are factors that very soon will affect our daily life, and we may as well get a understanding of it now.
The two factors are: energy crisis (peak oil) and climate change.
Start to think about how the global economy, the global trading systems affect our life. Try to imagine a world without readily available energy. Begin to think about everything we today take for granted.
 
I'm embarrassed to be a part of this community.

This has been very disturbing..

I regret the energy I wasted vainly attempting to educate MJ fans about this message from Michael Jackson. It has served to draw more negative energy to his message than positive. You may now return to conspiracy theories where you enthusiastically trash innocent people, which appears to be the most popular pastime here. Sorry to interrupt.

To those who contributed positively or took away something helpful from this, I extend my appreciation.

Bo G could you be more specific in what you feel the fans can do to help the environment because my opinion is that there is little we can do to stop rain forest destruction but we can plant trees, we can't stop toxic poison being poured into the environment but we do not have to use them ourselves, we cannot stop toxic nuclear waste like depleted uranium being dumped on countries which has now blown back to the US. My feeling is it already is too late and it has been for a while due to the rainforest.

If people do not care about life lost in war they are not likely to care about the earth. recyling and using long life light bulbs although is a good start is not enough. It is the rainforest they need to stop detroying as well as the tonnes of toxic chemicals poured into the environment.

The earth will survive she will recover eventually in billions of years, unless another type disaster occurs, it is humans who won't, unless they start NOW living in harmony with earth, and with people across the globe. What do you think we should do to deal with the problems causing earth associated with global warming/climate change?

it is about what we can do to make a difference. We can't control everything, we can only be responsible for our own actions.
 
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Don`t be disapointed- and do not give up. If people continue to give up just because other people do not see what you see, or understand what you understand- then progress would never be made. I urge people to stop "splitting hair" ( if that is a good expression-English is not my first language....).
I think Michaels message is pretty clear,and loud. And his opinions on this seem to be from his soul, and from seeing nature and the earth as something sacred, and also that this earth is what we give to our children.
We are human, and there is a bad side to human nature. And its not just about being "evil" or intentionally hurting others. Its also about peoples need to be important, to be right, to have the last word. I some times wish that we collectively could learn just to keep our mouths shut, and listen- just once in a while. Because; is being "right" more important then letting others feel good about themself? It is possible to let our ego go, and stand aside, just to let the converstation continue and be a open one.

For me; the discussion on wether global warming is scientifically proven or not the equivalent of people standing in front of a burning house, wasting their time discussing what technique is the best one for putting out the fire. People being what they are, the discussion would continue long after the house is burnt down.

We are not scientists. We shape our opinions not on what is scientifically "proven", but based on our preconcieved understanding of the world, our past experiences, who we respect, our educational level, and whatever our personal belief system is.
The first mistake everyone seem to do in this discussion, is to claim that science is "truth". Science is, as all human professions based on our human understanding of things. When science claim something to be proven, they say that as far as the results show and as far as our understanding and interpretation of the facts gathered this is our conclusion- at this point in time. Time, and further research will prove them right or not.
We, on the other hand- can only use our common sense (whatever that is).

It is an indeniable fact that our current production, economic and social systems are in trouble. We are exploiting the natural resources at a rate never seen before in history. We are more people living on this planet then ever before.

We have aproxamately:

218 million child workers
300 000 children are used as soldiers
150 million children live on the street
1 billion children live in poverty
121 milllion children get no education.

Each and every one of this numbers represent an individual.

And if the majority of scientists that believe in global warming, and that human activity is responsible for a lot of this,- if they are right- its the most vulnerable that will suffer the most, and its the people living under the toughest conditions today that will suffer the most.
And those are children.

Wether the threath of global warming is man made, if its scientifically correct- who are we to decide that we take the risk?
Because this is not about us, really. This is about what our legacy will be.
And its the children of this world that , as they grow up, must live with our decisions.
I think we must stop this need less discussions, and start to do something instead. Actionos will always speak louder then words.

Excellent post raising very relevant points .I agree.
 
I hope people go to this site and read the different scenarions presented.

http://www.futurescenarios.org/content/view/12/26/

Its interesting, and it may make it easier to start to think about what two factors that are going to affect our future may mean to you as an individual. I think the reality of the things that may effect our everyday life is a important way of getting this subjects to a level where people can relate to them personally. We have a tendency to take what we see right now for granted. But there are factors that very soon will affect our daily life, and we may as well get a understanding of it now.
The two factors are: energy crisis (peak oil) and climate change.
Start to think about how the global economy, the global trading systems affect our life. Try to imagine a world without readily available energy. Begin to think about everything we today take for granted.

Thankyou, I've heard of the peak oil crisis, but am not too certain of all the details is using solar energy is a thing that can help

http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/Generate-your-own-energy/Solar-water-heating
 
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Bo G could you be more specific in what you feel the fans can do...
The earth will survive she will recover eventually in billions of years

You've made your opposition to the central premise of this thread quite clear now. You've called global warming a fraud. Again you make it clear you're not reading my posts or looking at my links. I gave an action alert immediately above your post, and had many in my original post. I've encouraged people to read other threads for lifestyle changes, including your own, which I've complimented. But my thread was not intended to be an exhaustive guide to all environmental action. It was simply to inform people of MJ's concern about slowing global warming. I get your disagreement with this. You've sufficiently made your point, and hammering it over and over is not productive.

Ideas on slowing global warming are certainly appropriate for this thread, and we've had many great ones so far. Planting trees, as in the MJ Legacy Project, is of course a fantastic personal action.

I also urge folks to add a political dimension to their actions. We are by no means powerless on that level! A call to your Senator (I show you how to do this in my next post above) truly magnifies your own personal power. We might not "like" politics (I sure as hell don't), but it is the reality in which we live.

(BTW, movingcoolcat is a supporter of global warming action and of this thread.)
 
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Bo_G great thread and great posts.

This is a huge issue, which if I'm honest I don't know a whole lot about. Mainly because I am confused by what we hear from different people. We are told one thing, and then told another. I just don't know what to believe. I certainly don't think global warming is a fraud, however we get conflicted messages about this 4 year crisis..however, whether or not there will be a crisis in 4 years time and the word will be over, I still think that it is very important to 'help' the environment by employing such methods which MJJLaugh mentions on the first page. I'm all for ecologically aware living, it is important for the health of the world (if not in a massive way, then certainly in a small way), and lets face it, it helps our own bank balance!

Also, I am confused about how much is natural and how much is because of the actions of the people living on the planet. I don't have much time to read this thread right now, but when I do I'll be sure to read your points.

Like I said though, I don't think this changes the need to be more ecologically aware, we should show care for our world however large or small our affect is on it.
 
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