Four Years Left for Global Warming Action!

I'm with MJ: We need to slow global warming!

  • No way, I like global warming!

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No way, I don't believe in global warming!

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No way, I believe in global warming, but not that humans played a big role.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    13
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLBE5QAYXp8

Watch this!

( if someone could tell me how to embed videos from Youtube I would be very grateful........I just don`t seem to beable to get the code correct?)
STUFF -- such a great topic! We need George Carlin's famous monologue on STUFF for dessert after your entree.

I've searched everywhere on this to learn how to embed YouTube to no avail. I've twice messaged mods for information to help me with this thread, as I'm putting a lot of work into it, but haven't heard back. So I'm kinda running blind here... Hello? Hello? Mods? Geeks?

How do I find out who the mod is for this forum, anyone know?
 

Debunked. I'm sorry but that documentary is full of so many inaccuracies and fallacies. It's scary that it's shown in some schools in the US.

STUFF -- such a great topic! We need George Carlin's famous monologue on STUFF for dessert after your entree.

I've searched everywhere on this to learn how to embed YouTube to no avail. I've twice messaged mods for information to help me with this thread, as I'm putting a lot of work into it, but haven't heard back. So I'm kinda running blind here... Hello? Hello? Mods? Geeks?

How do I find out who the mod is for this forum, anyone know?

You mean this one?... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arbpu1xKAow
 
Bo G, a very inspiring post you wrote here. I was thinking about that too after having seen This Is It but where to start is the big question.

Allow me to post some suggestions for the personal living part:
- save your (plastic) bags and use them several times, take them to the shop
- don't leave the water running when you're brushin your teeth
- buy fruits and vegetables from the season and not shipped from afar
- support ecological, biological grown vegetables and biological diary products
- become a vegetarian!
- take a shower instead of a bath
- for non u.s. citizens: walk, ride your bicycle, use public transportation
- carpool with colleagues
- many governments subsidize solar panels on roofs of houses
- buy a smaller car
- turn off appliances entirely, not in standby mode


I'm sure there are many other things people can do if they want to. Make that change!

I like the suggestion about following the local government on their environmental policies.

All of those are great tips :cheeky: I practice several of those already.
I didn't read all of the posts, so someone may have already said this, but replacing regular light bulbs with the fluorescent ones saves a lot of energy too. They are a little bit more expensive, but they last a LOT longer. We did it by just buying a couple of 3-packs at a time, then replacing them as the old bulbs burned out and now have replaced nearly every bulb in the house.

post.jpg


An ENERGY STAR qualified compact fluorescent light bulb (CFL) will save about $30 over its lifetime and pay for itself in about 6 months. It uses 75 percent less energy and lasts about 10 times longer than an incandescent bulb.

http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=cfls.pr_cfls


( if someone could tell me how to embed videos from Youtube I would be very grateful........I just don`t seem to beable to get the code correct?)

I don't think we have that capability here anymore...:scratch:
 
Debunked. I'm sorry but that documentary is full of so many inaccuracies and fallacies. It's scary that it's shown in some schools in the US.



You mean this one?... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arbpu1xKAow

:doh:Again: with great respect, but I work with designing products? I do know both the systems for extracting materials of various types, I do know a lot of the practices of producing goods, I know the transportation system that is needed to transport the goods, I know a lot about the working environment the goods are produced in, I know the system used to handle the huge amount of trash ( what the goods become after use).
I also know the marketing system, and the cynical world of advertising. I also know too mutch about all the chemicals and toxix substances usen in products. And i wish more people knew this. But this is not information given when you by a product. To me this is common knowledge, and it scares me, because as individuals we have lost control on what we are influenced by, the systems are so complex that few have complete understanding of this. I know quite a bit due to work and education. But its very, very complex systems to change.

As I say: I respect you for your knowledge- I need you to respect me for mine.

The video ( story of stuff) is NOT a documentary. Its a short snippet of a film aimed to make people aware of what happens before and after a product is used, and tries to make people start to get information and understand the system.

Point is: This is a fairly new system of living. We can accept it as given, and the only way to live. But we do not have to. And rethinking the system does not go against capitalism ( in its purest form). Not to rethink it would in my opinion go against everything Michael talked about, because the system we have now is based upon some people producing stuff for the rich consumers, in some of the worst working conditions and with natural resources being extracted in a tempo never seen before. And many of the resources are not renewable.
It does hurt the most vulnerable of this world inhabitants; the children.
It makes us sick, due to interaction between chemicals that is not properly understood. And the worst thing is that people do not know what they are exposed to. And if you try to tell them, there is often a tendency to not wanting to hear about it-because its too mutch. How can people be shore that the products they use are safe? Truth is- they can`t.

Sorry for the rant; but knowing too mutch about this makes me some times want to scream in frustration because I feel so small, and the only thing I think can change this is if people start to use their power.But in this hectic world of ours, how is this going to be possible? How do you get people to get interested in this subjectthat in so many ways are scary,andcomplexand difficult? The natural way to react would beto close your ears, and ignore it and hope for the best.
 
Bo G, a very inspiring post you wrote here. I was thinking about that too after having seen This Is It but where to start is the big question.

Allow me to post some suggestions for the personal living part:
- save your (plastic) bags and use them several times, take them to the shop
- don't leave the water running when you're brushin your teeth
- buy fruits and vegetables from the season and not shipped from afar
- support ecological, biological grown vegetables and biological diary products
- become a vegetarian!
- take a shower instead of a bath
- for non u.s. citizens: walk, ride your bicycle, use public transportation
- carpool with colleagues
- many governments subsidize solar panels on roofs of houses
- buy a smaller car
- turn off appliances entirely, not in standby mode


I'm sure there are many other things people can do if they want to. Make that change!

I like the suggestion about following the local government on their environmental policies.

Those are good and I already do some of them now. Like:

I always reuse plastic bags
I always take showers instead of baths (But I never leave the water running when I take a shower)
I never leave the water running when I brush my teeth
I do completely turn off all appliances when not in use
and I am some what of a vegetarian now

As for the last one the only meats I prefer eating now is either shrimp, fish, chicken, and turkey. I hardly eat red meat anymore. I have given up eating all pork products a good few years or so ago. I can't even stand seeing some kind of a pork product being cooked. Even the smell of a pork product being cooked makes me sick to my stomach. And I have never eaten the following meats:

lamb
veal
oysters
Mussels
clams
crabs
crawfish
and lobster


As for the last one I just think it is totally sick, disgusting and just plain wrong to eat something that has been cooked alive. It just isn't right to do that. And like I had said before I always use fluorescent light bulbs and I always recycle now. Plus some of the appliances in this house is Energy star.
 
What happens when the e- waste is dumped? Very often is is sent to third world countries, where the working conditions is far less controlled- and cheaper, when it comes to recycling the different materials.

When it comes to China, a lot of our mobile phones are sent there and taken apart. People sit there heating up the lead, picking the components apart,with nothing to prevent then from breathing in the poisonous lead.
Why do you think they put out new mobile phones so often? The technology has not really evolved that mutch.

From a designers pint of view, its time to look at the oportunities of system designrather then product in traditional sense. How about making the products last longer, while consumers could upload new software to their mobile phones instead? It could make it possible to design products that are easier to repair, and maintain. It would create new businesses, focusing on developing software, and repairing and maintaining the products.

How about renting a computer instead of owning one? This would make it possible to close the loop in terms of materials, making it predictable in terms of what materials are used, and making an incentive for the producers to design and make the products in a way that they could reuse some of the components and materials.

How about creating a "Data Bank", where consumers stored their files? And systems for making it accessible everywhere you go?
This would make it possible to print less, reducing the amount of paper used ( production of paper are high in energy, chemicals and are pr.definition a production of waste, as most is thrown shortly after use).
After all: the concept of money banks is relatively new- and we trust them rather blindly. I know many may be reluctant in trusing a Data bank system in the beginning due to fears of viruses, cracks in the system etc.....But in the end, its problems that would create a whole new industry of people making this safe. New jobs created.......

My point is: If we put our mind to it, there are so many possibilities to create new business models that are sustainable and healthy. What blocks us from actually doing it i think is reluctance to accept that what we are doing now is not the only way to do things, its also about people being stuck and set in their own ways, having invested a lot in their perception about things ( as some people are stuck on the "shoot the messenger" when it comes to Al Gore), or just being lazy or indifferent.
There is one thing that we have to deal with first I think:

We need to realice that what michael said is right: Its us that needs to do this. Its not "them".

There is a moral/ ethical side to this that is unavoidable: either we recognice that we do have some responsebility in this. Or we don`t. That is the starting point.
Its easy to get caugth in endless discussions, but what is needed is reflection and understanding of the problem- and then to take action ( in our own small ways) to do something.

Compare this world to a ant nest. Their success in survival is cooperation, and pulling in the right direction. And as them, when we pull in the same direction we can achieve results that are impossible for one idividual or group. That is what this is about. Pulling in the same direction: a sustainable world, where some people are not dying for others to be living a comfortable life.
Because that is what is happening now: some of us live comfortable lifes, while increasingly being exposed to products that are unhealthy and toxic. And many are working with producing them, while being poisoned and working under conditions that are dangerous, toxic and don`t even pay them a fair amount of money for risking their life.

I know I am simplifying things- but this is a very common scenario in the production of materials and goods.
 
You mean this one?...

Ah, clever. Yes, that's a viral video in the global-warming-denier set.
Those of us who have followed him through his career and appreciated his largely progressive stances are amused to see the set who normally hates him suddenly claiming him after his death as one of their own with this video.

In no way is George Carlin a global warming denier. He's a brilliant man who despises arrogance and knows he's a comic, not a scientist. He just thinks humans, and our mess, won't matter in a few million years. You've missed his point entirely here. His satire was dark and nuanced. While he loved his own family, he had little more than contempt for humanity in general. He viewed us as an insignificant blemish on the planet; Earth, in geological time, will shed our effects and hardly give us a moment's thought. He's absolutely right. It's the Gaia hypothesis -- the planet will eventually restore itself to some new equilibrium. Well, duh. But what Earth does in geological time (over millions of years) doesn't do US much good. So he enjoys pointing out, correctly that our rhetoric about saving "the planet" is really talking about saving humanity and its way of life. Yep. Now where he and I part ways is that he's so pessimistic he finds ALL activism pointless and doesn't vote.

This will help explain the man (Warning: Carlin's job was to offend people...)

George Carlin HBO Special 2008 Its Bad For Ya Around 41.00.
...then they want to show you [their baby] pictures. There's another ordeal. These little gargoyles that they have loosed from their loins... they think it's a big event, having a baby. I call it "pumping out a unit." Polluting the earth with these creatures who have no future. They have no future. Have you pictured what this planet is going to be like in 40 to 50 years? It's going to be a big smoking ball of sh*t. A big smoking flaming ball of gaseous sh*t. That's what's going to happen. That's what's going to happen. It's irresponsible to have more than one child.
There's a video on YouTube called George Carlin on "Natural Disasters" that is one of his last appearances. But it keeps getting pulled for copyright violation. Here's a link to the transcript:

For centuries now, man has done everything he can to destroy, defile and interfere with nature. Clear-cutting forests, strip mining mountains, poisoning the atmosphere, over-fishing the ocean, polluting the rivers and lakes, destroying wetlands and aquifers. So when nature strikes back, and smacks man in the head, and kicks him in the nuts, I enjoy that. I have absolutely no sympathy for human beings whatsoever, none. And no matter what kind of problem humans are facing, whether it’s natural or man-made, I always hope it gets worse. Don’t you have a part of you that secretly hopes everything gets worse? ...

You know something else I like? Those spring floods in the mid-west... I just hope it keeps raining, and raining, and raining, and raining, and raining, and raining, and raining, and raining, and raining, and raining, and raining, and raining, and raining...

[He graphically imagines growing planetary apocalypse...] George Bush can’t decide if it’s an emergency or not... And now the entire North American Continent is on fire...a huge crack in the universe opens. And all the dead people from the past begin falling through. Big Ruth, Groucho Marks, J.B. Crocket, Tiny Tim, Porky Pig, Hitler, Janise Joplin, Allan Linden, my uncle Dave, your uncle Dave, everybody’s uncle Dave, an endless stream of dead uncle Daves falling through the crack.

And all the dead Uncle Daves gather around a heavenly kitchen table, they light up cigarettes and begin to talk. They talk about they never got a break, how their parents didn’t love them and their children were ungrateful. They talk about how their government screwed them out of money and they just missed out on a big job. They say the Jews own everything and the blacks get special treatment. And all the hatred and bitterness drips out of these people, and forms a big pool of liquid hate. And the pool of liquid hate begins to spin, round and round it spins, faster and faster, and the faster it spins the bigger it gets, faster and faster, bigger and bigger, until the whirling pool of hate is bigger than the entire universe...

Now do you see why I like it when nature gets even with humans?
George Carlin on Michael Jackson, BTW:
"Michael Jackson is the greatest entertainer who ever lived, bar none.. Watch him dance; pay attention to the showmanship. No one ever came close... F*ck Elvis... Frank Sinatra? F*ck him... Michael Jackson buries them all."
 
peeps, i,m proud of myself and want to share that with you!
Last week i did all the things in my area with my bike instead of the car!
I only bought at a farm from who i know and see that the animals are treated well.
Vegetables are also from the same farm.
The whole week i did the temperature in my house 1 celcius lower then normal and used an extra sweater to stay warm.
And you know, it feels good!

I,m happy!!!!
 
...I understand, Gaiaschild, that for personal reasons you prefer the opinion of this unnamed person to the global scientific consensus. That's certainly your right. Please understand, though, that this focus on personal opinions about Gore is a red herring; he's simply one advocate, not a scientist. Again, who concludes Ferraris are junk because they dislike the Ferrari salesman? And while you are entitled to dismiss the world's major scientific bodies... the Nobel Prize international committee... the United Nations... world leaders... majority public opinion... such provincialism surely makes one less a citizen of the world.

However, as I've said in your thread, I applaud your lifestyle. I only hope you decide to no longer attempt to discourage the many us of working to solve this grave problem.

I so agree that rainforest destruction is serious; it also contributes to global warming. But there's more going on. I really understand how emotionally tough it is to accept this bigger picture, but let's be strong, as MJ was, take a deep breath, and open our eyes to what's happening to our beloved Earth:


Bo G, please do not misinterpret me, it is obviously not my intention to discourage others to help the environment, I am devoted to it, as well as the truth, that is very sad that you have made that judgement toward me simply because I pointed out that phony data was used for the global warming political agenda, it is simply a fact that I am unable to ignore. Al Gore is being sued by 30 000 scientist. I'm sharing the view of what the majority of scientists are saying and that my opinon is that the truth is important if we want to heal our planet. I am flexible in my thinking and research that is all. I've been doing this for 30 years, but it came from my heart not politicians. When I started I got a lot of opposition and ridicule for speaking the truth, so with all due respect I do see the bigger picture.

It is not one scientist but thousands of scientists in fact it is most scientists who say global warning is not occuring.it is a political agenda and that climate change is a natural phenomena. It has occured in the past, many ice ages in the past and the great flood etc, these natural phenomena that have occured many times in earth history and imo because I want the truth, I can't ignore these facts.. Global warming is a political agenda to get taxes. Most scientists say the world is cooling down not warming up and as we had snow where i live a couple of summers ago, it is clear there is something awry. The global cooling is going to cause food shortages and price rises in food across the globe. It is a political agenda.

It is also very complex subject with many contradictory views

Peter Taylor is the man I saw. A very respected ex Oxford graduate and UN scientist, who worked on research of children who got cancer who lived near a nuclear plant, he says global warming is not occuring and it is global cooling is what is causing food shortages and the prices of grain to rise across the globe, and will cause more starvation in the world. This is also a serious issue close to Michael's heart

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvO6oLYWAQI

David Bellamy is another well know media environmentalist who has been ostracised from the media for saying that the earth is cooling down not heating up

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/1111/1224258552055.html


We can agree at least though and most importantly that our planet is in trouble and we need to take actions where we can to help our beloved earth.

We need to stop destroying,the rainforest and also to stop pouring poisonous chemcials down the sink and into the system Powerful chemical companies pouring extremely toxic chemicals and poisons into the environment which causes mercury ridden fish poisoned fish and wild life. If the Governments cared they would take action against this but they do not. it just continues. It makes me very sad. All businesses could use biodegradable cornstarch plastic wrappings or reclycled paper ones. But they choose not too.


I just found out that the photos of the polar bears and the arctic was taken in the summer and marine biologists say they are not in danger, so that is good news, because I was extremely upset about this. I've cut and pasted the article below. There is a lot of contradictary views

http://blog.puppetgov.com/2009/07/10/australian-tv-exposes-stranded-polar-bear-global-warming-hoax/

Remember that wonderful picture of stranded polar bears on an ice floe that were used by folks like soon-to-be-Dr. Al Gore to demonstrate how dire the man-made global warming issue is?

Well, ABC television in Australia, on a show called “Media Watch,” recently debunked the entire issue (video available here, h/t NB member dscott).

It turns out — as NewBuster Jake Gontesky reported on March 20 — the picture was taken in August, “when every year the fringes of the Arctic ice cap melt regardless of the wider effects of global warming.”

The photographer, Australian marine biology student Amanda Byrd, didn’t think the bears were in any jeopardy:


Whether it is global warming that is harming wildlife or other issues like destruction of habitats and toxic poisons and chemicals in the environment which are also harming human life too


I also applaud all efforts people are making to help our beloved earth, some great tips here. I don't think being flexible in thinking or looking at other views will prevent anyone who loves the earth from continuing to progress to live in harmony with the earth as we used too. If we lived in harmony with the earth, there would also be no starvation on the planet. There is enough on the planet for everyone's need just not eveyones's greed.
 
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What happens when the e- waste is dumped? Very often is is sent to third world countries..How about making the products last longer...

My point is: If we put our mind to it, there are so many possibilities to create new business models that are sustainable and healthy. What blocks us from actually doing it i think is reluctance to accept that what we are doing now is not the only way to do things... stuck on the "shoot the messenger" when it comes to Al Gore)...

There is a moral/ ethical side to this that is unavoidable: either we recognice that we do have some responsebility in this. Or we don`t. That is the starting point.
Its easy to get caugth in endless discussions, but what is needed is reflection and understanding of the problem- and then to take action ( in our own small ways) to do something.

Compare this world to a ant nest. Their success in survival is cooperation, and pulling in the right direction...
... some of us live comfortable lifes... many are working... under conditions that are dangerous, toxic

Thanks, great post, movingcoolcat. I was forced to replace my cellphone when a minor part was damaged and no longer available. The new fancier-looking one had one or two unwanted features and poorer reception. What a racket!

It's much easier, feels safer, and is probably human nature, to look for reasons to withdraw and resist seeing the big picture. We can and should resist that temptation. We're all connected now, like it or not; we're not each our own isolated caves anymore. Even the private initiatives some here would prefer to see require an honest appraisal of the the state of the world.
 
... in fact it is most scientists who say global warning is not occuring...
Peter Taylor is the man I saw. A very respected scientist...
David Bellamy is another well know media environmentalist who has been ostracised from the media...

Simply stating something repeatedly does not make it more true. While I've provided conclusive evidence of worldwide scientific consensus, you give a couple outliers then claim without proof this constitutes consensus.

David Bellamy is ostracized by environmentalists! He's been fired from Plantlife International which conserves Britain's native plants, and will by Wildlife Trusts, who apparently no longer thinks he's competent to manage their wildlife reserves. Both need sound science to get the job done.

Peter Taylor is not very respected by most climate scientists, actually. Here you see him being challenged by other scientists on his misuse of data. This seems to be more about a personal grudge against the UN.

I'd be more inclined to just "agree to disagree" with you if you could at least acknowledge that global warming was in fact a big concern for MJ. You dismissed this upthread, so I posted the evidence which you may not have been aware of. Now that you have it, it would be cool if you could note that and simply say you disagree with MJ, which is fine, of course. But whatever we may think of MJ's beliefs, we should not misrepresent them. I disagree with his some of his religious beliefs, and have said so on this site, but am working here to objectively document them.
 
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...I understand, Gaiaschild, that for personal reasons you prefer the opinion of this unnamed person to the global scientific consensus. That's certainly your right. Please understand, though, that this focus on personal opinions about Gore is a red herring; he's simply one advocate, not a scientist. Again, who concludes Ferraris are junk because they dislike the Ferrari salesman? And while you are entitled to dismiss the world's major scientific bodies... the Nobel Prize international committee... the United Nations... world leaders... majority public opinion... such provincialism surely makes one less a citizen of the world.

However, as I've said in your thread, I applaud your lifestyle. I only hope you decide to no longer attempt to discourage the many us of working to solve this grave problem.

I so agree that rainforest destruction is serious; it also contributes to global warming. But there's more going on. I really understand how emotionally tough it is to accept this bigger picture, but let's be strong, as MJ was, take a deep breath, and open our eyes to what's happening to our beloved Earth:

More Polar Bear Populations in Decline
New York Times, July 6, 2009



polar-bears-2-large.jpg


National Wildlife Federation on global warming


I myself dived on this particular glorious reef, and was planning on returning. Reading this has broken my heart.

Healthy reef:
080922155914-large.jpg


Dead reef:
dead-coral-540x380.jpg

Simply stating something repeatedly does not make it more true. While I've provided conclusive evidence of worldwide scientific consensus, you give a couple outliers then claim without proof this constitutes consensus.

David Bellamy is ostracized by environmentalists! He's been fired from Plantlife International which conserves Britain's native plants, and will by Wildlife Trusts, who apparently no longer thinks he's competent to manage their wildlife reserves. Both need sound science to get the job done.

Peter Taylor is not very respected by most climate scientists, actually. Here you see him being challenged by other scientists on his misuse of data. This seems to be more about a personal grudge against the UN.

I'd be more inclined to just "agree to disagree" with you if you could at least acknowledge that global warming was in fact a big concern for MJ. You dismissed this upthread, so I posted the evidence which you may not have been aware of. Now that you have it, it would be cool if you could note that and simply say you disagree with MJ, which is fine, of course. But whatever we may think of MJ's beliefs, we should not misrepresent them. I disagree with his some of his religious beliefs, and have said so on this site, but am working here to objectively document them.

But I don't disagree with MJ message?!!!!

I 100% agree with Michael 's a message about healing our planet, and that she is sick with a fever, and we have to heal her which includes love and unity and living in harmony with our earth, and across the globe and this is clear from the lyrics in his songs.

I'm sorry BO G but Michael did not mention the words global warming, in this is it movie if he did I would be fine with it anyway because it is what you do to help the earth that matters. But he did not use those words.

I only read that Michael Beardon says Michael's message was about global warming. Maybe this is how Michael interpreted it, but he still did not use those words. I agree Michaels message was about healing our planet ,and also about living in harmony with the earth and across the globe. He also cared about other issues like starvation and war in the world

Peter Taylor is an ex UN nations scientist,you don't have to agree with him, that is your choice.

Yes David Bellamy was fired because he refused to support something he believed to be untrue, had he just agreed and gone with the status quo he would not have been fired.

Some people have integrity and are willing to risk their livelihood for what they feel is the truth.

Just to make it clear I 100% agree with Michael views, on healing our planet, I simply have a slightly different interpretation of them too you.

The polar bears picture apparently was taken in the Summer, when the Ice Caps melt anyway by a marine biologist who says the bears are fine.

http://blog.puppetgov.com/2009/07/10/australian-tv-exposes-stranded-polar-bear-global-warming-hoax/

The coral reef is sad, I'm sorry about that. Perhaps pollution has something to do with, pollution is poisoning other sea creatures.

Coral reef ecosystems world-wide have been subject to unprecedented degradation over the past few decades. Disturbances affecting coral reefs include anthropogenic and natural events. Recent accelerated coral reef decline seems to be related mostly to anthropogenic impacts (overexploitation, overfishing, increased sedimentation and nutrient overloading. Natural disturbances which cause damage to coral reefs include violent storms, flooding, high and low temperature extremes, El Nino Southern Oscillation (ENSO) events, subaerial exposures, predatory outbreaks and epizootics.

Can't we just agree that it is what we do to help the earth and our planet that matters?
 
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I 100% agree with Michael 's a message about healing our planet, and that she is sick with a fever, and we have to heal her which includes love and unity and living in harmony with our earth, and across the globe and this is clear from the lyrics in his songs.

I'm sorry BO G but Michael did not mention the words global warming, in this is it movie if he did I would be fine with it because it is what you do to help the earth that matters. But he did not use those words.

I only read that Michael Beardon says Michael's message was about global warming. Maybe this is how Michael interpreted it, but he still did not use those words. Michaels message was about healing our planet and living in harmony with the earth and across the globe. I think he also cared about other serious issues like starvation and war in the world

Peter Taylor is an ex UN nations scientist,you don't have to agree with him, that is your choice.

Yes David Bellamy was fired because he refused to support an agenda he believed to be untrue, had he just agreed and gone with the status quo he would not have been fired.

Some people have integrity and are willing to risk their livelihood for the truth.

Just to make it clear I 100% agree with Michael views, on healing our planet, I simply have a slightly different interpretation of them too you.

The polar bears picture was taken in the Summer, when the Ice Caps melt anyway by a marine biologist who says the bears are fine.

http://blog.puppetgov.com/2009/07/10/australian-tv-exposes-stranded-polar-bear-global-warming-hoax/


I would appreciate it if you could try being a little less judgemental and a little more tolerant of people that have different views.
.

You're correct: Gaiaschild. MJ indeed never used the actual phrase "global warming" in TII. (I never said otherwise.) It appears you've overlooked a rather critical piece of information: the Ebony interview I posted in which MJ discusses global warming.

This, plus the TII musical director's statement that MJ repeatedly told him this was a big part of the TII message, plus MJ's words heard in the movie, make a pretty solid case. Take another look, Gaiaschild. It would be pretty hard after reviewing this body of evidence with an open mind and heart not to see that GW was a big part of MJ's TII message. It wasn't the only message. All I'm saying is it's a big part, and is what, in the film, he is referring to when he says we have "4 years" till problems with the planet's health are "irreversible."

I have to pretty strongly object to your attempt to mislead about my polar bear picture by falsely claiming it's been discredited. Your link is about a different photo by someone else! The photos look nothing alike, so surely you knew this?! My photo was taken by the U.S. Geological Survey, a highly respected organization. The link to the USGS site says the photo shows bears on "on a piece of multi-year ice." Multi-year ice means ice that's not supposed to be in pieces, and they go on to describe how it can be recognized as such. There are many more pictures and discussion there and in the New York Times article it appeared in.

You've written in to my thread repeatedly to object, which is fine. But when I quite naturally present evidence to rebut your point, you switch to making it personal with this "judgmental and intolerant" refrain. You can't expect to challenge and not be challenged. Feel free to challenge the points in this thread all you like, but these repeated personal comments are unhelpful.
 
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You're correct: Gaiaschild. MJ indeed never used the actual phrase "global warming" in TII. (I never said otherwise.) It appears you've overlooked a rather critical piece of information: the Ebony interview I posted in which MJ discusses global warming.

IYou've written in to my thread repeatedly to object, which is fine. But when I quite naturally present evidence to rebut your point, you switch to making it personal with this "judgmental and intolerant" refrain. You can't expect to challenge and not be challenged. Feel free to challenge the points in this thread all you like, but these repeated personal comments are unhelpful.

Thank you Bo G, for that information, I had not seen it. I also did believe in global warming only a year ago too, but now I'm not so sure.

I haven't objected to anything, you are the one that told me me that I am discouraging others from helping the planet because I shared some info, that you don't agree with. That is unfair .


I look at all the info from a variety of experts. I don't actually agree 100% with any of them. IMO,they all miss the point that it is living in harmony with the earth that matters, if we did that there would be no starvation on the planet.

There is enough for everyone's need just not everyone's greed.

I 100% agree with Michael's message for healing the planet,which is what I said in my last post.

I simply put out other views for consideration, take it or leave it.

I still feel it is what we do for the earth, the world and others is what matters.
 
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Deleted -- this was a response to another person's post which was subsequently deleted.
 
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peeps, i,m proud of myself and want to share that with you!
Last week i did all the things in my area with my bike instead of the car!
I only bought at a farm from who i know and see that the animals are treated well.
Vegetables are also from the same farm.
The whole week i did the temperature in my house 1 celcius lower then normal and used an extra sweater to stay warm.
And you know, it feels good!

I,m happy!!!!

That is great Jenny
 
peeps, i,m proud of myself and want to share that with you!
Last week i did all the things in my area with my bike instead of the car!
I only bought at a farm from who i know and see that the animals are treated well.
Vegetables are also from the same farm.
The whole week i did the temperature in my house 1 celcius lower then normal and used an extra sweater to stay warm.
And you know, it feels good!

I,m happy!!!!
Well done for this! especially the farm bit, animal welfare is so important to me... i wish more people cared. man, i wish i had a thermostat to turn lower, but i have no heating. lol just a fire, which is quite unffective! brrrr!
 
Thank you Bo G, for that information, I had not seen it....

...you are the one that told me me that I am discouraging others from helping the planet because I shared some info, that you don't agree with.

:no: Oh, dear, Gaiaschild, I've never said that! Quite the opposite! I've posted that I applauded what you were doing to help the planet and encouraging others to do. You've said this before, and I've corrected this before, so do hear me this time. What I have said is that your posts discourage action on global warming.

But I think this is changing? There's so much to digest... I understand that you've encountered some key new pieces to the puzzle here... So I'm hoping you're easing into this new awareness of MJ's goals?

That Ebony interview was pretty powerful, was it not? ( I was so in love after that interview. Not sure if the words or pictures did it more for me...:wub: )

...I haven't objected to anything...

lol... only the entire premise of my thread! :) Which is that global warming is a major part of MJ's message in This Is It, and is what he was referring to in his "4-year" statement.

But perhaps you're being persuaded a bit with this news? Hope so.

I still feel it is what we do for the earth, the world and others is what matters.

Amen, sister.
There's lots of work to do...
 
Well done for this! especially the farm bit, animal welfare is so important to me... i wish more people cared.
Out of sight, out of mind, I guess, on the factory farms, sadly. I'm very disturbed by it as well.

I really like the suggestion of visiting the farm locally so you can see how they're treated.
 
factory farming has a big impact on the environment
and out of site out of mind? i hope you don't mind but i'd like to put it in people's minds http://factoryfarming.org.uk/ this is disturbing, but true unfortunately. i feel like crying when i see people buying cheap meat in the supermarket.. ugh
 
peeps, i,m proud of myself and want to share that with you!
Last week i did all the things in my area with my bike instead of the car!
I only bought at a farm from who i know and see that the animals are treated well.
Vegetables are also from the same farm.
The whole week i did the temperature in my house 1 celcius lower then normal and used an extra sweater to stay warm.
And you know, it feels good!

I,m happy!!!!

You rock, girl!

I'm so jealous... I have to use my car for most errands. I try to group them together to minimize trips. In college years I used only a bicycle, and it truly felt like a different life. On a bike, you're so much more physically connected to your environment, aren't you? It's so common in most of the world, yet almost utterly alien to Americans.

How we structure our towns and cities has EVERYTHING to do with this. Lots of those kinds of local decisions are increasingly being made as we speak. Like my county, which is reducing sprawl by defining growth areas so people CAN use bicycles, AND keep some natural areas, with tax incentives to encourage landowners to keep some of their land undeveloped. After much discussion, residents have become amazingly into the whole idea and are really behind it. We do have to go to a variety of meetings to support it and iron out the details, which of course can get a little contentious. But that's democracy at work...

It's cool to hear how that can feel so good, Jenny!
 
i feel like crying when i see people buying cheap meat in the supermarket.. ugh

I share much of your emotion about this, becs. *hugs*

I'm trying hard to keep my strong emotions about matters like this separate from how I feel about the individual people. I've run into far too many who are just struggling to make it through another day, to feed their children -- you never know any individual's backstory.

So while I think educating consumers is vital, I also want to make the true cost of environmentally damaging products built into the price. If consumers were truly allowed to see th in the price at the supermarket, they would automatically go for the greener product. Which in time would drive down the price of the greener product.

As it stands right now, the true environmental costs of cheap, damaging products are eventually subsidized by the public, while the profits go to the harmful company. It's unfair not only to to the public, but to those trying to produce better products. And that ain't right. One term for this is "environmental valuation" -- it's a growing field.

Old-school economists looking at a nation's budget are great at adding up the big profits that stem from using "environmental services" (e.g. seas that provide fish, air and water to dilute pollutants, or land to filter or bury waste). They ridiculously treat these services as if they're free, and rarely subtract the eventual cost to the nation of using up these services. There are some revolutionary economists out there, though, thank goodness, who are getting more and more recognition. It sounds abstract, but it really, really matters on the ground.

It often falls to local, state and federal governments to understand these economics and manage accordingly. That's why it's important to vote for brighter, forward-thinking people who are open to new ways of doing business in this world.
 
...

I only hope you decide to no longer attempt to discourage the many us of working to solve this grave problem.

[
[

I am also working very hard on this grave issue that has made our planet sick Bo G, I'm not discouraging anyone, that is not my intention.
 
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:no: Oh, dear, Gaiaschild, I've never said that! Quite the opposite! I've posted that I applauded what you were doing to help the planet and encouraging others to do. You've said this before, and I've corrected this before, so do hear me this time. What I have said is that your posts discourage action on global warming.

...

I quote your original post above.

Michael's message though is not just about global warming he had made other message's about healing our world through our kids and his messages on ending war, that is also what I hope people will also be aware of these too, it is all important and connected.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6v9gkQqxBHY&feature=PlayList&p=FE6BE2DB4574D32E&index=0&playnext=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzIQlVSH8GU&feature=related
 
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