[Discussion] Sexual Abuse Claims Against MJ Estate - Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe

[ScreenOrigami]

The PR machine is on.

PR for his money making scheme. The MeToo movement is a fresh market for lawyers, and everyone is trying to get their share of it. In my opinion, Finaldi doesn’t believe a word Wade says, and he’ll throw him under the bus once they lose the case. I think, for Finaldi, the case is a PR stunt to attract new clients, and he couldn’t care less whether or not he actually wins the case. The longer it drags on, the better for his business.

 

[ozemouze]

I know but everytime I look at him now reminds me he supports those liars. I have to separte the art from the man.

Yep it's not always easy and we experienced some disappointing reactions this year. Fortunately I haven't really got favourites among them (except for Elton John) but it was still sad to see those actors/musicians acting dumb. One of the backlash of social media that many celebrities exposed themselves as... not too bright. Now I don't except actors to be clever, only to be good at their profession, but they should know their limits and remain silent if they are clueless (for their own good as well).

 

[Kingofpop4ever3000]

That article sounds to me like an lawsuit advertisement to attract more MJ accusers. The Estate is probably going to be in court constantly for years unless that law gets repealed or re-worded with punishments to filter out false claims. Fat chance yes. But there are those people who are willing to take advantage of this law just to lie.

 

[ozemouze]

In my opinion, Finaldi doesn’t believe a word Wade says, and he’ll throw him under the bus once they lose the case. I think, for Finaldi, the case is a PR stunt to attract new clients, and he couldn’t care less whether or not he actually wins the case. The longer it drags on, the better for his business.

I agree. On a side note his firm seems to be the connection to Anthony Edwards as well (surprise).

That article sounds to me like an lawsuit advertisement to attract more MJ accusers.

It is, that's Finaldi's PR/MO.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="hu"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">For those of you who are asking who is paying Wade's and Jimmy's legal fees. <a href="https://t.co/6gAatxsXzm">pic.twitter.com/6gAatxsXzm</a></p>&mdash; andjustice4some (@andjustice4some) <a href="https://twitter.com/andjustice4some/status/1196853166890868736?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">2019. november 19.</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Some background on him and his MO:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="hu"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">This is a MUST READ regarding Vince Finaldi's firm fishing for clients, which is illegal. AND, they intimate that the firm was attempting coercion! THIS is the law firm that represents both Robson and Safechuck. <a href="https://t.co/HHGdGJH9Fu">https://t.co/HHGdGJH9Fu</a></p>&mdash; andjustice4some (@andjustice4some) <a href="https://twitter.com/andjustice4some/status/1196822922788098049?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">2019. november 19.</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[ScreenOrigami]

Wade is in for a rude awakening when he&#8217;s being filed under &#8220;Lost Cases&#8221; and the circus moves on.

 

[ozemouze]

Wade is in for a rude awakening when he&#8217;s being filed under &#8220;Lost Cases&#8221; and the circus moves on.

Unfortunately the outcome of the court proceedings doesn't matter, it never did. The whole process will take years which guarantees constant bad press for MJ: MSM will uncritically copy-paste the accusations every possible time making sure to keep the case in the spotlight.

Yes, R&S may fail but it won't change anything because they don't really matter, they became just tools. To some extent Finaldi is interested in winning the case for monetary gain, but for MSM and support groups it's enough if it's drags for years - and it will.

The damage is done, and with every new happening more will be done (independently from the fact if it's actually good or bad for MJ). Look at what kind of articles just that change in California law generated (which I doubt would be ever be reported in UK media if it couldn't be connected to MJ):
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="hu"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Accusers. ACCUSERS. The accused in this case was previously acquitted of all charges when they were capable of defending themselves in life. Now that they aren't in death, you use language that condemns them of the alleged crime immediately. It's completely unethical.</p>&mdash; &#65533;&#65533;&#65533;&#65533;&#65533;&#65533;&#8473;&#65533;&#65533;&#65533;&#65533;&#8450;&#7468;&#7480; (@SkepticOnSite) <a href="https://twitter.com/SkepticOnSite/status/1197400310487994369?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">2019. november 21.</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
The woman tweeting this is an assemblywoman not just some stupid celebrity, so this is not a joke. And that law is now there, it won't be just about MJ!

 

[terrell]

We all know what&#8217;s being alleged, and it&#8217;s truly awful, but we&#8217;ll have to see how the plaintiffs can tie the alleged sexual abuse by Mr. Jackson to his business entities.

I​

t actually may not be hard to do, since the entities were so intertwined with Mr. Jackson himself and the very shows and promotions that led to the alleged sexual abuse taking place. The bottom line, however, is that this case could be the least of the concerns for the Estate of Michael Jackson.

​

Anyone who alleges to have been sexually assaulted by Mr. Jackson as a child, as long as they never brought a lawsuit before to a judgment, can now bring such a lawsuit, no matter how old they are. That is true for 3 full years starting January 1, 2020.


Oh please, this law just mean there is no limitation. Just because you sue does not mean you win it. Again, we already live in a society where you can sue for anything even if it is fraudulent. This law can have a way of backfiring if people are not careful in bring suits to falsely accused people as well like these fools. It is not going to be that cut and dry. This can also open the doors for a lot of countersuits as well.

 

[ScreenOrigami]

Unfortunately the outcome of the court proceedings doesn't matter, it never did. The whole process will take years which guarantees constant bad press for MJ: MSM will uncritically copy-paste the accusations every possible time making sure to keep the case in the spotlight.

Yes, R&S may fail but it won't change anything because they don't really matter, they became just tools. To some extent Finaldi is interested in winning the case for monetary gain, but for MSM and support groups it's enough if it's drags for years - and it will.

The damage is done, and with every new happening more will be done (independently from the fact if it's actually good or bad for MJ). Look at what kind of articles just that change in California law generated (which I doubt would be ever be reported in UK media if it couldn't be connected to MJ):
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="hu"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Accusers. ACCUSERS. The accused in this case was previously acquitted of all charges when they were capable of defending themselves in life. Now that they aren't in death, you use language that condemns them of the alleged crime immediately. It's completely unethical.</p>&#8212; &#65533;&#65533;&#65533;&#65533;&#65533;&#65533;&#8473;&#65533;&#65533;&#65533;&#65533;&#8450;&#7468;&#7480; (@SkepticOnSite) <a href="https://twitter.com/SkepticOnSite/status/1197400310487994369?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">2019. november 21.</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
The woman tweeting this is an assemblywoman not just some stupid celebrity, so this is not a joke. And that law is now there, it won't be just about MJ!

There&#8217;s no arguing with the points you&#8217;re making, and this is all very annoying. But at the end of the day, no one will be able to prove MJ&#8217;s guilt (or any of his companies&#8217; guilt), because there simply is nothing to prove.

Finaldi&#8217;s PR campaign makes it sound like it&#8217;s expected that now, after all these years, dozens of &#8220;victims&#8221; will finally have the chance to step forward with their accusations. But this is completely ignoring the fact that this hasn&#8217;t happened when MJ was perceived an easy target for settlements back in the 90&#8217;s, nor when Sneddon set all wheels in motion to find any credible accusers for his prosecution in 2005 and failed.

The R/S cases will tank, and Finaldi&#8217;s circus will move on, because by that time he&#8217;ll have acquired enough other clients to make actual money with. My understanding is that he&#8217;ll get a cut out of every settlement, but charges his clients nothing if he loses the case. So he won&#8217;t have much incentive to find more MJ accusers, because those are lost cases from the get-go. And he knows it.

R/S will end up with nothing. They&#8217;re just pawns in this game, and I believe they&#8217;re just not bright enough to realize that.

EDIT: I forgot to say, the press will always find something negative to report about MJ as long as those headlines sell. That ship has sailed a long time ago. But they&#8217;re slowly losing their power to social media. People are questioning things these days, and that&#8217;s great. Sure there are always a handful of trolls, but the majority of posts about MJ are neutral or positive. And that&#8217;s what counts. And that&#8217;s where we have the power. Stay positive, post the good stuff, debunk fake news when they pop up, post more good stuff, stay positive.

 

[ozemouze]

Finaldi’s PR campaign makes it sound like it’s expected that now, after all these years, dozens of “victims” will finally have the chance to step forward with their accusations. But this is completely ignoring the fact that this hasn’t happened when MJ was perceived an easy target for settlements back in the 90’s, nor when Sneddon set all wheels in motion to find any credible accusers for his prosecution in 2005 and failed.

That's exactly my problem TBH. In 93 no more victims came out, two separate grand juries didn't find enough evidence to indict; same in 03/05: no other victims, the prosecution's case crumpled on cross exam, 14 not guilty; same in 13: no other victims than R&S who wants many, whose case is thrown out of court, and who weren't taken seriously even by the media until LN; FBI investigation found nothing - and all this still wasn't enough. It means it will never be. :/

Stay positive, post the good stuff, debunk fake news when they pop up, post more good stuff, stay positive.

OK, I'll try. Maybe gonna eat some Ferrero Rocher.

 

[ScreenOrigami]

That's exactly my problem TBH. In 93 no more victims came out, two separate grand juries didn't find enough evidence to indict; same in 03/05: no other victims, the prosecution's case crumpled on cross exam, 14 not guilty; same in 13: no other victims than R&S who wants many, whose case is thrown out of court, and who weren't taken seriously even by the media until LN; FBI investigation found nothing - and all this still wasn't enough. It means it will never be. :/

While this may never completely end, they&#8217;re just snakes in the grass. We&#8217;re eagles soaring high.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

It will never stop while the estate has money and greed runs the usa

 

[DifferentKindOfLady]

That's exactly my problem TBH. In 93 no more victims came out, two separate grand juries didn't find enough evidence to indict; same in 03/05: no other victims, the prosecution's case crumpled on cross exam, 14 not guilty; same in 13: no other victims than R&S who wants many, whose case is thrown out of court, and who weren't taken seriously even by the media until LN; FBI investigation found nothing - and all this still wasn't enough. It means it will never be. :/


OK, I'll try. Maybe gonna eat some Ferrero Rocher.

Yeah thats the best we can do! Eat Ferrero Rocher and remember the good old days (or the good gold pants )
Im just trying to make things better but I know this is hard times.

 

[8701girl]

They are scum

 

[ozemouze]

Finaldi's lawyer partner, flat out lying on twitter:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="hu"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Lol. You are such a liar, John. This has nothing to do with Finaldi's supposed &quot;brilliance and talent&quot;. It has all to do with just getting lucky with the new bill. Without it this would have been thrown out on appeal and you know that. But like client, like lawyer.</p>&mdash; Justice for The Falsely Accused (@JuliaBerkowitz1) <a href="https://twitter.com/JuliaBerkowitz1/status/1198859984496402433?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">2019. november 25.</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Following their PR the media will act like the new lawsuit is thanks to the work of their "brilliant" lawyers finding some solid evidence, and not the new bill. Plus expect "poor oppressed victims now finally have a voice" narrative as well.

I'm fed up with this virtual reality really.

 

[La74]

There&#8217;s no arguing with the points you&#8217;re making, and this is all very annoying. But at the end of the day, no one will be able to prove MJ&#8217;s guilt (or any of his companies&#8217; guilt), because there simply is nothing to prove.

Finaldi&#8217;s PR campaign makes it sound like it&#8217;s expected that now, after all these years, dozens of &#8220;victims&#8221; will finally have the chance to step forward with their accusations. But this is completely ignoring the fact that this hasn&#8217;t happened when MJ was perceived an easy target for settlements back in the 90&#8217;s, nor when Sneddon set all wheels in motion to find any credible accusers for his prosecution in 2005 and failed.

The R/S cases will tank, and Finaldi&#8217;s circus will move on, because by that time he&#8217;ll have acquired enough other clients to make actual money with. My understanding is that he&#8217;ll get a cut out of every settlement, but charges his clients nothing if he loses the case. So he won&#8217;t have much incentive to find more MJ accusers, because those are lost cases from the get-go. And he knows it.

R/S will end up with nothing. They&#8217;re just pawns in this game, and I believe they&#8217;re just not bright enough to realize that.

EDIT: I forgot to say, the press will always find something negative to report about MJ as long as those headlines sell. That ship has sailed a long time ago. But they&#8217;re slowly losing their power to social media. People are questioning things these days, and that&#8217;s great. Sure there are always a handful of trolls, but the majority of posts about MJ are neutral or positive. And that&#8217;s what counts. And that&#8217;s where we have the power. Stay positive, post the good stuff, debunk fake news when they pop up, post more good stuff, stay positive.

I agree and also the tragedy already happend then MJ died 10 years ago. But the media is losing power and I think we have only seen the beginning of it.

 

[ozemouze]

More on Oprah's shameful exploitation of real CSA victims to legitimise the lies of LN, featuring Anthony Edwards & co. and other collusions:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="hu"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Oprah delegated her CSA superstar pals to recruit 100+ CSA survivors for her show. Those in attendance took 1-3 days off of midweek just to attend.<br><br>Oprah exploited the lives of real CSA victims for ratings &amp; to promote the books, writings &amp; groups that her CSA friends operated. <a href="https://t.co/ItVKoXawNF">pic.twitter.com/ItVKoXawNF</a></p>&mdash; TSCM (@MJJRepository) <a href="https://twitter.com/MJJRepository/status/1199160844900323328?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">2019. november 26.</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Edwards has become the strongest promoter of LN & sidekick to WR+JS.

He turned LN into an ecosystem of self-promotion for his group. His only other Medium story is attacking Chapelle while promoting LN. Last event from group was LN-related.

He attends court hearings w/ the 2.

As part of the MaleSurvivorOrg community, many members & leaders have engaged in promoting and commending LN across dozens of threads. Many members from the group were part of Oprah's screening and indicated they were recruited through various group emails including Edwards'.

Beyond Edwards and Fradkin, numerous other mainstream "MeToo warriors" and CSA advocates found their way onto the set via Oprah's command. These others, despite not getting speaking roles, were just as instrumental in helping to fill the room w/ CSA survivors for dramatic impact.

Oprah & her CSA advocates used these disgraced allegations for their self-interests, at the suffrage of CSA victims in attendance.

They say "it's not about MJ" yet Oprah uses his name 65 times in 58 minutes. LN uses Michael's name 327 times. CSA organizers sure use it as well.

Until now we had "only" MSM invested in destroying MJ and against exposing the truth. Now we have acitivists (not fake woke twitter warriors but "legitimate" ones) investing in making MJ a poster boy for horrible cirmes for their own PR as well.

They will never let go of this narrative, never.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="hu"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">LN has been eye-opening.<br><br>Seeing the mass number of groups join in w/ HBO, Oprah, Channel 4 to write viewing guides, seminars, sessions etc. all based on THESE allegations above all others out there...has made me completely distrust all orgs forever. And that is a damn shame.</p>&mdash; TSCM (@MJJRepository) <a href="https://twitter.com/MJJRepository/status/1199172761308028931?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">2019. november 26.</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[La74]

More on Oprah's shameful exploitation of real CSA victims to legitimise the lies of LN, featuring Anthony Edwards & co. and other collusions:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="hu"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Oprah delegated her CSA superstar pals to recruit 100+ CSA survivors for her show. Those in attendance took 1-3 days off of midweek just to attend.<br><br>Oprah exploited the lives of real CSA victims for ratings & to promote the books, writings & groups that her CSA friends operated. <a href="https://t.co/ItVKoXawNF">pic.twitter.com/ItVKoXawNF</a></p>&#8212; TSCM (@MJJRepository) <a href="https://twitter.com/MJJRepository/status/1199160844900323328?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">2019. november 26.</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>





Until now we had "only" MSM invested in destroying MJ and against exposing the truth. Now we have acitivists (not fake woke twitter warriors but "legitimate" ones) investing in making MJ a poster boy for horrible cirmes for their own PR as well.

They will never let go of this narrative, never.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="hu"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">LN has been eye-opening.<br><br>Seeing the mass number of groups join in w/ HBO, Oprah, Channel 4 to write viewing guides, seminars, sessions etc. all based on THESE allegations above all others out there...has made me completely distrust all orgs forever. And that is a damn shame.</p>&#8212; TSCM (@MJJRepository) <a href="https://twitter.com/MJJRepository/status/1199172761308028931?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">2019. november 26.</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Maybe, but they are destroying their own credibility with a lot of people. I feel exactly like TSCM.

 

[La74]

PR for his money making scheme. The MeToo movement is a fresh market for lawyers, and everyone is trying to get their share of it. In my opinion, Finaldi doesn’t believe a word Wade says, and he’ll throw him under the bus once they lose the case. I think, for Finaldi, the case is a PR stunt to attract new clients, and he couldn’t care less whether or not he actually wins the case. The longer it drags on, the better for his business.

I agree.

 

[ozemouze]

Maybe, but they are destroying their own credibility with a lot of people. I feel exactly like TSCM.

It was one of the major disappointments of the last years, really.

I thought the MeToo movement is very important and talks about real issues that must have been brought up. That its outcome can only be positive. Never expected it to turn out like this (and I'm far from being naive or idealistic). And now they become leaders in dismissing due process and presumption of innocence, creating a fearful atmosphere where only hysterical voices can be heard.

I'm disappointed and feel duped. And very suspicious about everyone who willingly contributed to the derailment of the movement (yes, including the founders and organisations).

 

[La74]

It was one of the major disappointments of the last years, really.

I thought the MeToo movement is very important and talks about real issues that must have been brought up. That its outcome can only be positive. Never expected it to turn out like this (and I'm far from being naive or idealistic). And now they become leaders in dismissing due process and presumption of innocence, creating a fearful atmosphere where only hysterical voices can be heard.

I'm disappointed and feel duped. And very suspicious about everyone who willingly contributed to the derailment of the movement (yes, including the founders and organisations).

Exactly! And I also originally thought me too was a positive thing but now I feel I leave that to somebody else. You have to have some judgement and be able to see the difference between real and false allegations to have any credibility. Sexual abuse/assult destroy lives but so does false allegations. And just believing all allegations triggers false allegations if ther is money involved, which I think will in a longer perspective make it harder for real victims to be believed and that is both tragic and a bit ironic. I am very disappointed.

 

[PoP]

It was one of the major disappointments of the last years, really.

I thought the MeToo movement is very important and talks about real issues that must have been brought up. That its outcome can only be positive. Never expected it to turn out like this (and I'm far from being naive or idealistic). And now they become leaders in dismissing due process and presumption of innocence, creating a fearful atmosphere where only hysterical voices can be heard.

I'm disappointed and feel duped. And very suspicious about everyone who willingly contributed to the derailment of the movement (yes, including the founders and organisations).

That MeToo movement was basically out of control and such idiots anyways. They're becoming more of a problem all year long and also part of the CancelCulture disease that loves ruining everything and yes even make sex abuse victims into pawns for their own gain of fame.

 

[terrell]

That MeToo movement was basically out of control and such idiots anyways. They're becoming more of a problem all year long and also part of the CancelCulture disease that loves ruining everything and yes even make sex abuse victims into pawns for their own gain of fame.

People are tied of metoo. It has turned into a Salem Witch hunt.

 

[Alh21]

This may be a stupid question but I have been so busy the last few weeks I haven't been able to keep up with anything MJ related. I flick through the news when I get chance but ignore anything that looks like BS on MJ. If them two morons get to go back to court who will be representing MJ and fighting his corner? please tell me there will be a fair trial so that them two can get their arses kicked. (apologises if this is a stupid thing to ask)

 

[ScreenOrigami]

This may be a stupid question but I have been so busy the last few weeks I haven't been able to keep up with anything MJ related. I flick through the news when I get chance but ignore anything that looks like BS on MJ. If them two morons get to go back to court who will be representing MJ and fighting his corner? please tell me there will be a fair trial so that them two can get their arses kicked. (apologises if this is a stupid thing to ask)

It’s very likely that there will be no trial, and their cases will be dismissed again. Should there be a trial, all the evidence is still on MJ’s side, just like last time around, when R&S’s cases were dismissed. But on top of that, the Estate has announced that they will bring in LN and all the interviews those three did in the meantime as new evidence, should a trial actually happen. So, personally I don’t worry about that at all. R&S’s claims are just too ridiculous to convince any jury, even in a civil trial. Legal team is still the same (the Weitzman team, I think. I’m bad with names).

 

[Alh21]

It&#8217;s very likely that there will be no trial, and their cases will be dismissed again. Should there be a trial, all the evidence is still on MJ&#8217;s side, just like last time around, when R&S&#8217;s cases were dismissed. But on top of that, the Estate has announced that they will bring in LN and all the interviews those three did in the meantime as new evidence, should a trial actually happen. So, personally I don&#8217;t worry about that at all. R&S&#8217;s claims are just too ridiculous to convince any jury, even in a civil trial. Legal team is still the same (the Weitzman team, I think. I&#8217;m bad with names).

I was hoping that was the case, I wasn't that worried tbh as I couldn't see how they would manage to win even if it did go to trial. I just want to see the pair of them shown for what they really are

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Wheres the documentry section gone?

 

[PoP]

It&#8217;s very likely that there will be no trial, and their cases will be dismissed again. Should there be a trial, all the evidence is still on MJ&#8217;s side, just like last time around, when R&S&#8217;s cases were dismissed. But on top of that, the Estate has announced that they will bring in LN and all the interviews those three did in the meantime as new evidence, should a trial actually happen. So, personally I don&#8217;t worry about that at all. R&S&#8217;s claims are just too ridiculous to convince any jury, even in a civil trial. Legal team is still the same (the Weitzman team, I think. I&#8217;m bad with names).

I granted there will be no trial and that fed up AB-218 won't help at all which we hoped it won't. But still I fear that and (unrelated) COPPA is gonna be another problem and another hell.

 

[Amaya]

Wheres the documentry section gone?

It looks like all the threads from it were merged back into the main T&T subforum. The main LN discussion thread is pinned at the top of this.

 

[La74]

It&#8217;s very likely that there will be no trial, and their cases will be dismissed again. Should there be a trial, all the evidence is still on MJ&#8217;s side, just like last time around, when R&S&#8217;s cases were dismissed. But on top of that, the Estate has announced that they will bring in LN and all the interviews those three did in the meantime as new evidence, should a trial actually happen. So, personally I don&#8217;t worry about that at all. R&S&#8217;s claims are just too ridiculous to convince any jury, even in a civil trial. Legal team is still the same (the Weitzman team, I think. I&#8217;m bad with names).

Does anyone know when it will be decided if there is going to be a trial and I there is a trial I wonder what R and S who has not done one interview there they answered any critical questions are going to say.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

It will take years. They go through the same process we have since the case was first filed in 2013